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twitterSUN EDITORIAL:
The fast-changing auto
Electricity promises to be main alternative fuel for the immediate future
Saturday, Aug. 15, 2009 | 2:07 a.m.
Car buyers got a glimpse of the future this week when newspapers wrote extensively about the automotive technology that will soon be coming onto the market.
The stories were sparked by General Motors’ announcement Tuesday that its Chevrolet Volt, a combination gasoline and plug-in electric sedan scheduled to hit showrooms late next year, should get 230 miles a gallon during city driving.
That announcement inspired reporters to repeat last week’s announcement by Nissan, which stated that its all-electric car, the Leaf, will do even better. Although it will be rated in kilowatt hours per 100 miles, the company said the Leaf, also scheduled to come out in late 2010, will get the equivalent of 367 miles per gallon.
The New York Times reported that Chrysler and Ford are also planning to come out with plug-in and electric cars, and that Toyota is developing a plug-in version of its gas-electric hybrid.
The mileage claims being made by GM and Nissan have not been verified by the Environmental Protection Agency. Nevertheless, the claims are a strong indication of the market automakers want to attract — the millions of people who are tired of high gasoline prices. That market also includes people who are concerned about cutting oil imports and cleaning the air.
For GM, this will be its first foray into truly fuel-efficient cars, which for years it claimed it couldn’t make and stay solvent. Unfortunately, it took bankruptcy, a massive downsizing and a federal takeover for the company to learn that just the opposite was true — it must be competitive on mileage to have any hope of surviving.
This is true even as the reality of regular hybrids, plug-in hybrids and all-electric vehicles becomes clear — much more electricity, now largely coming from dirty coal plants, will need to be generated. But as more plants powered by clean renewable energy come online, this problem will fade.
The first generation of any new technology generally presents multiple problems. But we’re confident that these problems can be solved, and that electric vehicles will prove to be a clean bridge between gasoline and the day when even-cleaner hydrogen-powered vehicles dominate our roadways.
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It is somewhat ironic that GM is now coming along with an electric car, when only a few short years ago, they were destroying all the EV1s they had made. It is easy for anyone with a peanut for a brain as to why they HAD to do this, they were in bed with the oil companies, and as the price of gas at that time was well below $2 a gallon, most people were not wanting an electric car. Its the same old American spirit, we are good at what we do, like polluting the atmosphere, and blaming it on the Chinese.
The car will cost over $45,000.
It will be a hyped up golf cart. It is small car with no thrills.
It will have a range of some 200 miles.
It will take over 10 hours to recharge.
So be sure not go on vacation with this thing. It will be a second car to use to go to work and back.
God forbid you forget to charge your car at night because you screwed. It is not like you can do a 10 minute fill up at the gas station.
One can spend about $18k to $20K get a larger car and have gas mileage in the 30 to 50 per gallon range.
A $18k car with 50 mpg generates a 5 year loan payment of $382 a month with about $80 a month in gas.
The $45k electric car generates a 5 year loan payment of $956 a month with about a (I guess) $30 a month electric bill.
I really only seeing rich people buying this car because it makes absolutely no financial sense especially because one will need a second car to go on long trips.
It will be too expensive for the everyday man.
We don't have enough electricity to power all these cars. We cannot build dams, coal plants or heaven forbid, a nuclear plant.
This is part of leveling the playing field. Make American as backward as Afghanistan.
neiman, learn to play football on the playing fields, good for keeping the body fat down.
Re: SgtRock
If you're going to rip something that you don't like, at least don't misrepresent the actual facts. The Volt is a plug-in HYBRID not an all-electric car. So if you don't recharge it, big deal, you just fill up with gas at any local gas station.
I agree with you on the dollar/month work-out though. I ended up buying a new truck instead of a high-MPG car because the break-even point was about $6/gallon with my commute with the reduced cost of a non-hybrid truck. It wasn't worth buying a more expensive car to 'save money' on gas so I could pay 2x the monthly car payment.
PvtRock strikes again...
He has to be a plant put on this board by FOX NEWS or Limbaugh right-wing radio......maybe just big oil...
PvtRock is consistent, however. He's against progress of any kind. Matter of fact the ranting pvt. believes that true progress is actually walking backwards...
PvtRock is like most right-wingers. He's against anything that will get us off our dependence on foreign oil.
His statement on why the up coming electric/hybrid car isn't practical in any form, shape or fashion is based on the ole "it costs too much" approach.
Of course, PvtRock forgets (actually never knew) that the cars first produced by Henry Ford were primarly for the rich. The average worker couldn't afford them....
Henry, of course, changed all that by cutting production costs (which decreased the selling price of each car) and paying his workers a higher wage which allow them to purchase the cars that they were making....
Nope...I'm sure that type of approach wouldn't work today....
El Lobo....you should put your money where you big fat mouth is.
When the Volt comes out...go buy the $45,000 golf cart.
PvtRock said....
"El Lobo....you should put your money where you big fat mouth is.
When the Volt comes out...go buy the $45,000 golf cart."
Thanks for the advice, but I'll probably wait until the "Henry Ford Effect" takes place & then buy two....
Hmmm........that sounds like you are agreeing with me.
The avg Joe will not be able to afford the Volt.
Doubt that GM will be selling that many of them.
I could sure use a jump start, if you got the juice. I need to do about 500 miles a day, then get up and do it some more. I either need a heck of a long extension cord, or some way to get in front of the line at the station. My rpm's are getting a boost right now, thinking of all the sexy ladies pumping my juice box. over at the "Mobil Station"
PvtRock said....
"Hmmm........that sounds like you are agreeing with me.
The avg Joe will not be able to afford the Volt.
Doubt that GM will be selling that many of them."
That may be true in the beginning but the "Henry Ford Effect" will/could change all that. It's called be patient, have confidence in our economic system, and allow our ingenuity to work its magic.
You should know something about that...it's often called capitalism.
My whole point is that YOU and many like you are very negative about any possible change in the way we're doing things....
This is the time we need to try many different things.....
This is the time we need to build a new mouse trap.
More times than not, new innovative ideas have numerous "kinks" that needs to be worked out before they're useable...
"Rome wasn't built in a day..." You probably didn't know that!
When do you expect the "Henry Ford Effect" to happen to the Volt?
Or do you expect the Volt to be a bust (I do) and later, like in a decade or two, a car like the Volt will be made that is affordable?
PvtRock said...
"When do you expect the "Henry Ford Effect" to happen to the Volt?
Or do you expect the Volt to be a bust (I do) and later, like in a decade or two, a car like the Volt will be made that is affordable?"
I'm not an engineer that works in the automobile industry, but I have confidence in what they can and will achieve in both the short term and the long term. I believe they have finally awaken from their "Rip Van Winkle" nap and have decided to built a better mouse trap..
I'm an optimist......a guy who believes the glass is half full. You're a guy who has no water at all in your glass.... Big difference! That's why you're a Republican...
"I'm an optimist......a guy who believes the glass is half full. You're a guy who has no water at all in your glass.... Big difference! That's why you're a Republican..."
No you are a person that will blindly follow the garbage that the koolaid libs feed your head whether it makes any financial sense or common sense.
I also deal in reality and not the world of theory that you libs love to live in.
The reality is that the Volt will be sold for around $45k or higher according to GM.
The reality is that financially a person will have to pay more than double in monthly car payments around $900 a month to get that car vs a good car that will get around 40 MPG for a monthly payment of around $400.
The reality is that the average Joe will not be able to afford the Volt will it comes out. Even you have admitted to this.
If you want to live in la-la land then that is your right. I live in reality.
Will they continue to improve the technology to bring down the cost of making cars that use little or no gas? Yes, they will. But that is the future not the present. But that will not change the fact that the Volt which is a low end car (in terms of luxury and features) that will cost $45k. The Volt will be a bust.
PvtRock....
There are no dreams available to people who don't believe in them....You should change your name to "The sky is falling." That fits you to a "T."
You said....
"Will they continue to improve the technology to bring down the cost of making cars that use little or no gas? Yes, they will. But that is the future not the present."
Again, I repeat what I said earlier..."Rome was not built in a day." You are actually hoping that the new electric car will fail. Why am I not surprised?
I have said this to you many times....You believe that progress is standing still and great progress is walking backwards.
You remind me of the people who were "dead set" against the building of the First Transcontinental Railroad that Lincoln was successful in getting built. They were convinced that it was a huge waste of money & wouldn't be used by large numbers of people for years and years....
You must be a direct descendent of the group that thought that Eisenhower had lost his mind when he signed into law the National Defense Act that was responsible for the building of the Interstate Highway System...
I'm in "la-la land?" Right! I just happen to look upward and not downward. Change is in front of us. This country was built on change..... Get on board or get left behind...
I am not against the electric car.
My only point is that the Volt will be a bust. Simply because it will cost around $45k and will be on low end in terms of luxury and features.
When they built Rome it took thousand of years.
The Interstate Highway System was built using a pratical and proven technology that was developed in Germany and that too took decades to complete.
It is you guys who are nuts.
You want to snap your fingers and boom we all got affordable electrical cars that are not tiny no-thrill tin cans.
It you guys want to spend our children's future into oblivion by deficit spending on nutty ideas that make zero financial sense.
PvtRock said...
"It is you guys who are nuts.
You want to snap your fingers and boom we all got affordable electrical cars that are not tiny no-thrill tin cans.
It you guys want to spend our children's future into oblivion by deficit spending on nutty ideas that make zero financial sense."
Your reply is full of holes....First of all, I don't believe what is needed will be accomplished over-night. I didn't say that...
Matter fact, it will take some time, but the sooner we get started, the sooner we have the results that we need...
As far as deficit spending is concerned, it seems that I remember a previous president who was big into deficit spending.......the last thing he did as he headed for home was to sign a huge bail-out bill for Wall Street and a smaller one for the automobile people.
He also fought an unneeded war on borrowed money and gave tax cuts to his rich buddies...
Through out his eight years as president, this same "conservative" never carried a balanced budget.
Do you remember all that or have you gone down the "selective amnesia" road, and have decided to lay all of our problems at the feet of the current president?
You guys are the ones with selected memory.
Yes, it is true that Bush spent more money then he should have.
However, it was a Republican Congress with Bill Clinton that passed all those balanced budgets.
Also, it is a silly arugement to say, "Will Bush did it. So Obama can create even bigger deficits."
Can you please go into the 2010 and 2012 elections with that statement? Can you please?
PvtRock....
I'm still trying to figure out what good, if any, did George W. Bush do as president.
You very reluctantly admitted that Texas George "spent more money that he should have."
You attempted to chastise me for mentioning the short comings of GWB, but quickly pointed out that during some, but not all of Clinton's tenure, he had a Republican Congress to deal with and in your way of thinking, it was the Republicans, not Clinton, who produced a balanced budget.....
Again, "selective amnesia" on your part... Why am I not surprised?
If Obama gets our troops out of the Middle East and turns the economy around, look for the Republicans to be given another "asss kicking" come 2010 and 2012.....
The GOP is lost in the political wilderness. They have NO leadership and have become the party of "NO." They are dead set against health care reform, but yet have no alternative plan of their own.......
They are simply against what ever the Democrats are for.....Wow! What a plan!
I said that Clinton and the Republican congress passed the balanced budgets. Do you have trouble reading?
Yes, Bush spending was bad. He busted the bank on education and busted the bank on providing Medicare drug coverage for seniors. I am glad you agree those bad things.
Obama wants to double down or triple down on Bush spending. I am glad that you will join to fight to stop that deficit spending especially when he wants to spend another trillion on healthcare.
I think you smoking too much dope if you think Obama will pull out of Afghanistan before 2012.
PvtRock...
Thank you for giving Clinton a little bit of credit....that's truly amazing coming from you!
You said Bush "busted the bank on education and on providing Medicare drug coverage for seniors..."
Wow! Is that something you dreamed up or is that what you heard on right-wing talk radio? No that can't be it.....right-wing talk radio NEVER says anyting bad about the mentally challenged man from Texas....
Actually, the Bush budget (once inflation is factored in...) cut back on many of the programs dealing with education. The government program coming under the heading of Pell Grants is a perfect example of that very thing....
Keep in mind that it wasn't Obama who took us into Afghanistan in the first place... He's just trying to clean up the mess created by his predecessor.
Hmmm....the use of "selective amnesia" again by you?
"Actually, the Bush budget (once inflation is factored in...) cut back on many of the programs dealing with education."
You crazed from drinking all that koolaid if you do not know that Bush greatly expanded spending on education by the greatest percentage than any other president other.
Education spending by Bush increased by 18% after inflation.
Also, you seem clueless of the fact that Medicare drug coverage was pushed and signed into law by Bush. What have you been asleep for the last 10 years?
"Keep in mind that it wasn't Obama who took us into Afghanistan in the first place"
OK.....I take as you saying that Obama or Democrats would never attack Afghanistan after 9/11. I believe that would be true. Democrats run from problems. The terrorist army in Afghanistan region grew, and grew and grew and grew under the Clinton years even though they launch World Trade Tower Attack I, the embassy bombings and the Cole attack.
PvtRock....PvtRock.....what are we going to do with you? That right-wing Kool-Aid is rotting your brain. The best thing that you can hope for is Obama Care.......you will shortly need it!
Hey, got a link on George and his 18% increase for education? I stand by what I said about Pell Grants......Due to Texas George, there's less money for Pell Grants out there.... That's also true with student loans....
To say that GWB spent more on education (factoring in inflation...) than any president in history shows that you know NOTHING about history......have you ever heard of the GI Bill that was put into law under FDR & later Truman? Do you have any idea how much LBJ spent on education under his "Great Society Progran?" You disappoint me....
If a Democrat had been in charge after 9/11 we would have gone into Afghanistan but not Iraq. Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. With that being said, we would now be out of Afghanistan because the mission would be completed.....pretty simple stuff!
You're starting to bore me.....no real challenge debating you....
SgtRock, the information in your first post would have been too good to be true around 10-15 years ago. 10-15 years from now, it will seem antique. The electric car is improving at a such a rapid rate that internal combustion engine will likely be left behind in around 30 years.
It will be sort of like the rise of the modern cell phone. It will happen very suddenly and we won't really think anything of it.
the cost of electrics is way too high in relation to the cost of fuel. when you compare the base price of a gas powered honda civic to a hybrid toyota prius its a $6700 DIFFERENCE in intial outlay. depending how you operate your car will determine what your fuel costs will be.