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twitterLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Health care plan creates confusion
Thursday, Aug. 13, 2009 | 2:04 a.m.
I have to admit it, I’m confused. Are President Barack Obama and company talking about health care reform or health care insurance reform?
They really are two different things, yet they have been used interchangeably by this administration. Health care is care provided by doctors and other health care professionals. Health care insurance is what I pay to a company to help me pay for medical care.
Which one is the government trying to control? Does Obama really know?
While I’m at it, how will the government’s spending money on reform save money and reduce the deficit? Politicians keep saying they will reduce the deficit by enacting their health care spending plan but they will be spending money, not saving money. See my confusion?
I realize getting straight answers from Washington is hard but perhaps it’s time.
Discussion: 47 comments so far…
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Which one is the government trying to control? Does Obama really know? >>>>> SURE THEY KNOW RANDY THEY ARE TRYING TO CONTROL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THATS WHAT SOCIALIST DO BEST!
Mr. Becker, knowing you are doing that thing where you say you want to know something when you think you already know the answer--people like you are blocking true reform. The administration realizes that you are too ill informed, if not too stupid, to take in the whole of the issue, and since everyone hates insurance companies, the reform debate has been dumbed down just for you, sir.
If we don't get real systemic reform, it will be because of questions like this that are supposed to be smart-aleck, but in reality are obscuring this critical problem in the U.S.
We understand your concerns, and dislike the way you go about it. You and the rest of the GOP are being pretty foolish, but that isn't news.
I trust the Insurance Companies more than I do Obama and Reid and most of the other crooks who run this country. The more I hear about Obama the more I realize what a Chicago slimebag he really is. The Insurance Companies I understand, they want to make a profit. The dregs like Reid and Obama want to control our lives even they are much too stupid to do so. I bet Mr. Becker works honestly and provides for his family's needs. Political Pragmatist, are you man enough to take care of your family or do need some illiterate moron from the government to take care of and watch over you? I think the answer is clear from your letter. Don't poke fun at Americans who are better than you.
Political Pragmatist: Who are you referring to when you state "we"? The administration realizes that they might be able to pull the wool over our eyes and jam this over 1,000 page bill down our throats. Many Congressmen have admitted that they don't even understand the bill.
Plus, have you checked whom Obama's advisors are? Very scary people, to say the least. He even stated in his "campaign speech" at the canned town hall in New Hampshire that he has great advisors regarding this.
And of course right away you have to state that Mr. Becker and the rest of the GOP are being pretty foolish, but actually your statement isn't news. Liberals have a way of attacking anyone who disagrees with them.
I'm a Libertarian, by the way...and I can see right through this BS bill that will have us being completely controlled by this overbearing government.
"Plus, have you checked whom Obama's advisors are? Very scary people, to say the least. "
Have you? Who are these scary people?
"Liberals have a way of attacking anyone who disagrees with them." And so-called conservatives don't? Like the conservatives shouting down others at town hall meetings so others can't even become more informed and ask questions? And Libertarians don't? Like you just did?
Political Pragmitist: Be a man! The elderly, sick children, the mentally handicaapped, disabled people, and the unemployed are a burden to this great country. As jib101 says, why should we pay their way? Be a man!
P.S. Are you a woman?
jib101: "Don't poke fun at Americans who are better than you."
You considering yourself better than anyone is nauseating.
Go to church.
I had over head a couple of my employee's talking about this health care issue the other day and one said to the other that they paid for there health care and so should everyone else
Because of that statement I had to stop our daily operations to address this which also cost money out of my pocket.
Now the meeting went like this I showed all employee's what they paid for health care which ranged from $171.00 to $220.00 ...........
Then I showed what I pay for there health care which ranges from $275.00 to $300.00 then I asked all employee's to not make statements about them paying for there healh care when they are only paying a portion of it.
And at the next enrollment period I was going to reduce My contribution to there health care because it is just that a Contribution My reasoning is that I must stay in business so sometimes cuts have to be made.
http://mises.org/story/3646
Government running health care or health insurance isn't true reform. It just doesn't work well at all and no matter how bad it performs it will be around for a very long time.
Political Prag,
If you are going to attack the author of this letter for bringing up the point, maybe you should hold off defending Obama's plan let alone attacking the opposition for being a bunch of mindless zombies. Seriously, this was a good point and you can't even gather a serious answer.
PoliticalPragmatist,
I have been reading the bill. Tell me what you think about this.
*must be "grandfathered in for private insurance and never amend or change your policy or you lose the "private" and become part of the massive exchange
*small panel appointed by the president to decide what is covered, what course of action is taken for what conditions, and putting government between you and your doctor. They have one year to decide on "standards".
*Grants to states for quality home visitation programs for young families or expectant parents (with 5% of grants going towards training and technical assistance)
*Section 1203: Eliminating Barriers to Enrollment
I) An individual shall be able to apply on the basis of self-certification of income and resources and
II) matters attested to in the application shall be subject to the appropriate methods of verification without the need of the individual to provide additional documentation.
*Grants to states that offer and provide language services at no additional cost to each patient with limited English proficiency at all points of contact, in a timely manner, during all hours of operation.
They apparently do not want the eligibility verification system currently being used for medicare and welfare to effectively eliminate illegals. They shot down the amendment that would require applicants be screened through this system, yet have taken very distinct measures to eliminate "barriers" that would require applicants to prove they are legally in the country.
Then they add in the grants requiring the language services at all points of contact, etc.
The only verbiage I have found denying illegals so far says this:
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits (that means premiums) on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
It's important to note the following:
*non-citizens here legally are eligible for the government to pay premiums
and
*it does not say that the exorbitant amount of Federal Grant money cannot be used by the states to provide services to illegals. In fact, that is exactly what they are encouraging the states to do via these language grants, home visitation, etc.
This bill does far more than just aim to cover the uninsured. We keep hearing about "no illegals" and "no impact on private insurance".
My question to you is, are you at all concerned about the fact that what they are telling us completely contradicts what the verbiage in the bill says?
http://reason.com/news/show/135407.html
John Stossel illustrates how big industries like drug and insurance companies are in fact supporting Obama's plan.
That is the very special interest groups the LEFT accuses of brain washing the right are in support, or at least partially, of Obama's plans.
I do go to church. It says in Exodus 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbors house, you shall not covet your neighbors wife or male of female slave, or ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor".
Everything about liberalism and socialism is based on greed and envy and violates this tenth commandment.
Yes the Bible says to help the poor, but most of those supporting this obamacare mistake are not poor. They are greedy and selfish and people who want better than they are to pay their way.
"*must be "grandfathered in for private insurance and never amend or change your policy or you lose the "private" and become part of the massive exchange"
You misread what that sections states. Grandfathering has to do with what plans the private insurance companies can offer, AFTER this bill is passed. The bill has provisions which affect private insurance plans. Those provisions will be enacted once this bill is passed. This is a standard grandfather provision that ensures current coverage is enacted, as that is required by law. Your private health insurance plan will not change, UNLESS you alter your coverage or quit your coverage. At that time, any insurance plan you can purchase from a private insurance company will include the provisions of H.R. 3200.
It DOES NOT MEAN that you "lose the private." Private plans will continue to be offered, bought, etc. The difference is that private plans may have additional requirements. You can keep your current plan under grandfathering, but if you change/lose that coverage, any new coverage would be the same plan, with additions. You old, "bad" private plan would now be a private plan that is required to cover pre-existing conditions.
As for the "massive exchange," I'm not sure what your problem is with the exchange. It is, simply from the committee summary:
"The new Health Insurance Exchange creates a transparent and functional marketplace for individuals and small employers to comparison shop among private and public insurers. It works with state insurance departments to set and enforce insurance reforms and consumer protections, facilitates enrollment, and administers affordability credits to help low- and middle-income individuals and families purchase insurance. Over time, the Exchange will be opened to additional employers as another choice for covering their employees. States may opt to operate the Exchange in lieu of the national Exchange provided they follow the federal rules."
A transparent and functional marketplace for individuals and employers to comparison shop? HOW DASTARDLY! AND IT INCLUDES PRIVATE INSURANCE? This is how Obama's going to kill private insurance, by making it easier for people to BUY PRIVATE INSURANCE!
"*small panel appointed by the president to decide what is covered, what course of action is taken for what conditions, and putting government between you and your doctor. They have one year to decide on "standards"."
You fear the Health Benefits Advisory Panel? You realize that ALL private insurance companies have the same panels, which recommend levels of coverage, coverage benefits, etc. How else would they determine what to cover? You also realize that the private advisory panels all decide based almost solely on COST, right? If that treatment costs too much, too bad for you!
Plus a "small panel?" 26 people is a small panel? And, "appointed by the president?" Not all are appointed by the President.
"Grants to states for quality home visitation programs for young families or expectant parents (with 5% of grants going towards training and technical assistance)"
Home visitation programs? HOW EVIL!
"Home visitors help pregnant women understand the importance of prenatal care and proper nutrition. They help the expectant mothers gain access to services and prepare them for the realities of caring for an infant. Visitors model proper care and developmentally appropriate activities; they share information about nutrition, safety, and
immunizations; and they listen to the concerns of the parents."
Sounds like a DASTARDLY PLAN TO HELP CHILDREN SURVIVE! WE MUST STOP THIS!
The rest of that is a diatribe linking poor English proficiency to "illegal immigrants." So, better hope you understand English before you REQUEST home visitation to learn how to better care for your child, or else Henderson will come and beat you up!
"My question to you is, are you at all concerned about the fact that what they are telling us completely contradicts what the verbiage in the bill says?"
No, what you've demonstrated is that you haven't read a bit of this bill for yourself. You've relied on debunked editorials from the Investor's Business Daily and your own limited comprehension to take sentences out of context and fearmonger.
This is the same thing you did before with an Obama quote. Your arguments are fundamentally dishonest and misleading.
"If you are going to attack the author of this letter for bringing up the point, maybe you should hold off defending Obama's plan let alone attacking the opposition for being a bunch of mindless zombies. Seriously, this was a good point and you can't even gather a serious answer."
It was not a question. It was a statement in the form of a question, and I replied to his point.
Since the majority of Americans can't seem to get the fact that if we don't do something, we are going to be far worse off in another decade--and possibly crippled economically--we should make it as simple as possible to get. Remove two words from an existing bill--Over 65.
If you CHOOSE, you can buy into Medicare. If you CHOOSE to keep your existing plan, no problem. The largest group protesting health reform are on a government health care plan...Medicare. Let everyone get their health insurance if they CHOOSE. How simple is that?
If you think this is a bad idea, I suppose you will turn down Medicare when you are 65, and encourage your parents to either get off it or turn it down themselves to keep them from being socialists.
First: I have spent many hours reading the bill, so you don't know what you're talking about. Everything that I have stated so far in this thread has come directly from my research.
Secondly: I did not misread anything. You are stuck with whatever plan you have as of one day before this bill goes active. You may not make any changes after that point, or you will have to become part of the exchange. Insurance is not private insurance if you have to be included as part of the massive government exchange of socialized/subsidized medicine.
Third: Yes, 26 people (all appointed, 17 by the president/9 by Comptroller General) is a very small panel when you consider they alone will determine what kind of health care every person in America can have.
Fourth: Are home visitations to young and pregnant families really vital to survival? Or are you being dramatic? I think it's just a big fat waste of taxpayer money and the creation of an unnececcary entitlement that will never go away.
Fifth: There is still nothing in the bill that prohibits the massive amounts of grant money to the states from being spent on programs and benefits for illegals.
I don't believe the largest group protesting is derived of Medicare recipients. Where did you pull that factoid from?
"I have spent many hours reading the bill, so you don't know what you're talking about. Everything that I have stated so far in this thread has come directly from my research."
First, I don't believe you, simply because of the numerous falsehoods and lies I've exposed. To give you the benefit of the doubt, let me clarify: your research is wrong.
"Secondly: I did not misread anything. You are stuck with whatever plan you have as of one day before this bill goes active. You may not make any changes after that point, or you will have to become part of the exchange. Insurance is not private insurance if you have to be included as part of the massive government exchange of socialized/subsidized medicine."
The exchange is the mechanism used to enforce regulations. There are already existing regulations regarding health care. Thus, according to your argument, being regulated means insurance is not private. If that is true, THERE IS NO EXISTING PRIVATE INSURANCE. Regulations on private insurance have existed and been enforced for decades. The exchange will ensure that private plans, which - contrary to your false and misleading protests - will still be available but available with minimum standards.
"Yes, 26 people (all appointed, 17 by the president/9 by Comptroller General) is a very small panel when you consider they alone will determine what kind of health care every person in America can have."
I'm glad you finally admit that you were wrong about the entire panel being appointed by Obama. Seems your "research" was wrong there, too. Furthermore, your characterization of the Benefits committee as "[determining] what kind of health care every person in America can have." is simply a BALD FACED LIE. The Committee determines MINIMUM levels of care, not MAXIMUM. How many lies are you gonna throw out today, Henderson?
"Fourth: Are home visitations to young and pregnant families really vital to survival? Or are you being dramatic? I think it's just a big fat waste of taxpayer money and the creation of an unnececcary entitlement that will never go away."
Entitlement? A voluntary program which has been shown to reduce infant mortality and contribute to healthier children? Of all the provisions to nag about and you choose the one which can help parents better care for their children? You are absurd.
"Fifth: There is still nothing in the bill that prohibits the massive amounts of grant money to the states from being spent on programs and benefits for illegals."
There is existing federal law which limits federal monies being spent on undocumented workers. The states can override such law. Your issue is with the states, not with the federal government.
Is this all you've got after reading it? WEAK!
Once you are part of the exchange, you are part of the nationwide socialized/subsidized plan.
The exchange does not just mean regulations.
We don't have money to train and hire people to go into people's homes to make sure they are sleeping their babies on their stomachs.
If this health care plan is not intended to benefit illegals as they are telling us, they would include a little something in the bill forbidding states from spending grant money on illegals.
The bill gives the grants to whoever it wants, for whatever it wants. Therefore, I take issue with the bill that gives the grant money to begin with, then removes all requirements for people applying for entitlements to prove they are in the country illegally.
Why would I take issue with the states when the money is coming from the bill. One little tiny sentence would prevent states using this money for illegals.
They are lying.
And no, this is not all I've got, these are just some of my biggest issues. These are the things they keep lying about.
Henderson has, sadly, more than likely read more of the bill than most congress members who will be voting on it. With his campaign promise of transparency, why doesn't the President have an outside, impartial panel read the bill and distill it down to a more simple form and list bullet points for each element in the bill that we can all understand and go on from there?
He hasn't read the bill. He's read a few editorials and nutroots blog posts about it and tried to pawn that off as his own, original, thought.
"The exchange does not just mean regulations."
Then tell us, specifically, what it means.
"If this health care plan is not intended to benefit illegals as they are telling us, they would include a little something in the bill forbidding states from spending grant money on illegals."
There is existing federal law that bans federal money by making illegal immigrants ineligible for all state and Federal benefits, except for emergency care and disaster relief. No, you want FEMA asking for your photo I.D. before pulling you out of a collapsed building...
"The bill gives the grants to whoever it wants, for whatever it wants. "
You quoted, specifically, what the grant money was for: home visitation for expecting families. The bill specifically gives guidlines, measures and requires regular reporting as to the effectiveness of the program. "Whoever it wants?" No, it sets up guidelines for the program. "Whatever it wants?" Nope, it specifically calls out what the money can and cannot be used for. It calls for needs assessment. It says that in funding, "the State shall identify and prioritize serving communities that are in high need of such services, especially communities with a high proportion of low-income families or a high incidence of child maltreatment"
"Why would I take issue with the states when the money is coming from the bill. One little tiny sentence would prevent states using this money for illegals."
It's existing federal law. The states can vote and make an exclusion. You may not like the federal law, but they must adhere to it.
"And no, this is not all I've got, these are just some of my biggest issues. These are the things they keep lying about."
Well, your copy/paste job hasn't changed in the last few days, so I'm assuming this is all you've got from your "voluminous" reading! LOLOLOL!
You've got lies, misinformation, distortions, etc. WEAK!
Meanwhile, tell us SPECIFICALLY how the exchange is more than regulations.
Political Pragamatist
1) Yes reform is needed
2) This is not ObamaCare reform vs. the status quo
3) There is a chance that ObamaCare may actually be worse than the status quo.
ksand,
You are mistaken. The insurance exchange basically makes the government the broker, with all the insurance companies yielding to it's authority and taking part in the subsidies and risk pools, etc. Do you think we've never had insurance regulations before and we need an exchange to come up with regulations? That's stupid. Then as more and more people change jobs, or have a lapse in coverage, soon everyone will be on the exchange, the government will have completely taken over the insurance and health care industries, and we will all be on socialized/subsidized health care. That's how the exchange is more than just a set of regulations.
Secondly,
Thank you for conceding to my point that nothing in this bill prevents illegals from benefitting from this massive takeover of government healthcare. Perhaps you haven't gotten the memo, the Obamacrats are still denying it.
Lastly, the reason why I keep copy/pasting (with subtle variations) is these are points that I am passionate about, there are others but these are facts the Administration keeps lying about, and if I can type it out only once, why wouldn't I?
henderson
Why don't you just crawl back under the rock where you came from. Your so called facts are rubbish, and you keep posting this garbage on every health care post. You have a very vivid imagination, hopefully people don't believe this garbage you keep spewing. Lies will not defeat this bill. I'll put my money on Obama
cpo,
Great argument! You're an excellent debater and make excellent points.
NOT
ksand is clear, logical and honest, not to mention incredibly patient and detailed in his responses to outlandish claims.
Quit the negative crap, you mindless losers, or get off my thread. lol
Henderson, your ignorance is showing.
Under the legislation being considered, there are three different names for the health insurance exchange, but that's what I'm choosing to call it for clarity, since that's the language used in H.R. 3200. The HIE is nothing more than a Web-accessible marketplace for private insurance. An Ebay for health insurance, for all intents and purposes. It would allow an individual to search out different PRIVATE health care plans and choose, based on the individual's criteria. It would further facilitate any federal subsidies for low-income individuals. Furthermore, the plans would be vetted to ensure they comply with federal regulations.
Those regulations are no different than regulations found in any other marketplace. For example, all health care plans would have to cover a minimum of conditions and costs. Just as government regulates minimum safety requirements for cars, they will regulate minimum coverage for insurance.
"Do you think we've never had insurance regulations before and we need an exchange to come up with regulations? That's stupid."
Of course, that's not what I said, that's another of your misrepresentations on display for anyone to see. Current regulations have seen health care cost inflation average 6% per year. They're not working. The minimum coverage levels mandated by the reform will reduce the cost of those who are underinsured.
"Then as more and more people change jobs, or have a lapse in coverage, soon everyone will be on the exchange, the government will have completely taken over the insurance and health care industries, and we will all be on socialized/subsidized health care."
This is just stupid. First, both the House and Senate plans under consideration would restrict HIE access to small businesses and individuals not eligible for employer-sponsored plans that meet a set of minimum standards for coverage. Second, for someone who claims to have read the legislation, you keep blatantly misrepresenting what it says. Third, health insurance companies will remain private, and will not be "taken over" by anyone, let alone the government. Regulating a market DOES NOT EQUAL taking it over. Again, regulations on the insurance market have existed for decades, yet you seem to think that today's market is "free." Private plans will continue to exist, continue to be offered on the exchange, and large companies will continue to provide private health insurance to their employees.
"Thank you for conceding to my point that nothing in this bill prevents illegals from benefitting from this massive takeover of government healthcare. Perhaps you haven't gotten the memo, the Obamacrats are still denying it."
I'm not going to take a moment of my time explaining federalism to you, henderson. Your perilous grasp on even the basic details of this bill pretty much exhibits your utter ignorance of how government works. Refer back to what I've already said. You think we agree, but we don't. I've conceded nothing of the sort.
"Lastly, the reason why I keep copy/pasting (with subtle variations) is these are points that I am passionate about, there are others but these are facts the Administration keeps lying about, and if I can type it out only once, why wouldn't I?"
Now that's just funny. Like I said, your diatribe is nothing more than a cut and paste job from IBD Editorials, RedState.com and, as someone else pointed out, commentary from Chuck Norris. All of that commentary, by the way, has been proven to be false or horribly misleading.
Let us know when you've got something original.
ksand99
You cant debate with someone who makes up stuff. Its a waste of time
henderson = Hannitized
"You cant debate with someone who makes up stuff. Its a waste of time."
I appreciate that, but I've got a lot of time, and it's funny to watch them squirm when their lies and misrepresentations are exposed.
You want to know what's really funny? For all of henderson's yapping about people being forced into the public option, he ignores an actual amendment made today by REPUBLICAN DEAN HELLER to force member of Congress off of their current, PRIVATE insurance on onto the proposed public plan.
H.R. 3200 doesn't mandate that. The Democratic plan doesn't mandate that.
The only person trying to force people onto the public plan is our very own REPUBLICAN DEAN HELLER.
Ksand,
Why would you say I "ignored" Heller's amendment?
I fully support Dean Heller. Why should they be allowed to exempt themselves from their own health care plan?
If it's good enough for the rest of the country, they and their loved ones should be first in line.
I'm actually surprised that anyone would take offense to that. Why should they create something for us that they won't have for themselves?
Also ksand,
I can understand why it's comforting for you to assume that I'm going off talking points when I have spent hours reading this bill and taking notes.
Chuck Norris (which I had to look up because I haven't actually heard anything from him since the election)is not talking about the same concerns I have, and I have never been to redstate.com. Feel free to look around, my comments are from my own research.
It's easier for you to simply accuse me of copying other people's notes and say "that's been debunked" than it is for you to actually address the bill and show me where I'm wrong.
You still have not demonstrated how the millions of dollars in grant money won't be applied to programs and benefits for illegals.
You dems are never good for actual truths. You just go straight for insults when you don't like what you hear.
You criticize the town hall people and say you want rational debate, yet when you don't have an answer it's straight to insults and false accusations.
To pull a page out of your playbook,
Show me specifically where the bill says that money won't go to illegals!
Please tell me more about the Obama "born in Kenya" debate. This health care and death panels is booooooooooooring!
Henderson, of course you support forcing people onto the public plan, while whining about the death of private insurance. That's exactly what I expect from a hypocrite.
"You still have not demonstrated how the millions of dollars in grant money won't be applied to programs and benefits for illegals."
Yes I have, multiple times. You bore me.
"You dems are never good for actual truths. "
This coming from you, who claimed just a few days ago that Palin's "death panel" lies were real? I've provided evidence and context to your OUT-OF-CONTEXT and misrepresentations. I understand why you're so infuriated with someone who can expose your ignorance.
"Show me specifically where the bill says that money won't go to illegals!"
But you've read the bill! Now suddenly you don't know?
To pull a page out of your playbook, I'll use your words in response...
"...now you want me to read for you too? For someone with so much at stake, I would think you of all people would have actually started reading the bill by now."
"You, [Henderson] are a typical lazy [Republican] looking for someone else to do for you. You should be reading this bill instead of [commenting with misrepresentations and lies.]
Infuriated? I'm not even mildly upset.
You can't demonstrate that the millions in grants will not go towards benefits and programs for illegals.
I read it, I know it, and you can't prove otherwise.
I just reread your post. You have not demonstratedf one time how benefits won't go be provided to illegals. That's a lie.
Henderson gets all his facts from Foxed News and Rush. He or she always counters that you are to somehow prove him wrong. Great just state one fact and back it up with a resource Henderson. Guess what, Henderson can't. Henderson is the one that claims there are Death panels, and the bill is for illegal immigrants. Tell us Henderson where is these provisions, what is the source and where can we view it??? Rushes web page ?
"You can't demonstrate that the millions in grants will not go towards benefits and programs for illegals."
Here's what I wrote several hours ago:
"There is existing federal law which limits federal monies being spent on undocumented workers. The states can override such law. Your issue is with the states, not with the federal government."
Under federal law, it is illegal. I've said this before. As if we need any more evidence of your poor comprehension skills you just keep digging your own grave.
HOWEVER, because we are a federalist republic, the states still exert control... control which the federal government cannot supercede due to that thing known as a constitution. Your anger at grant money being used for anything should be directed at the STATES, not at the federal government, and certainly not at congress.
So you favor forcing people onto the public plan and THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EXERTING UNCONSTITUTIONAL POWER OVER THE STATES... you really are a Republican!
Alternative health and dietary measures and preventative medicine, if used before and in lieu of expensive drugs, would solve our health care woes. The problem, obviously, is that the current system is bad and does not promote good health, as evidenced by our 37th place world standing for life expectancy. Can it be that the fact the feds dump fluoride in our water, allow all types of artificial favors and colors into hour highly refined pesticide rich nutrient poor pre-packed food (and fast food), use chlorine instead of ozone to purify public water, etc etc, can that be why we as a nation spend the most on health care and yet can't achieve the best life expectancy?
By the way, have any of you here noticed they stopped the Chemtrail spraying a few months ago? Chemtrails over Vegas were the norm for the last 10 or so years. The program was ramped up under Bush to a daily barrage of barium salt and aluminum being dumped into our air. The skies often looked like checkerboards with many x's and criss-crossing lines. Now, all of the sudden, nothing! Amazing, huh? All of the folks who said that those were contrails, what gives? Has air traffic over Vegas stopped in the last few weeks? Why all of the clear skys? Can this be the secret covert program Panetta said he discovered and shut down about a month ago? Inquiring minds want to know, but we'll never know. For those who don't know that I'm talking about, start looking up every now and again. Here's a good website to learn more: http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
BTW, all that aluminum and barium salt for all those years ...think that caused any illness and disease?
I just received a 37,000 hospital bill marked "paid." I paid 675.00 out of pocket, the insurance paid 8,000.; the hospital wrote off the rest as "insurance discount." The insurance? MEDICARE. Did the government control who my doctors were, which hospital to go to? NO!
Government control - where?
qwill The Government screws a lot of things up, But one thing they do good, and that is health care. This is another great example ,
ksand,
You are expecting me to believe that there's no way this bill could've been written so that states can't use this grant money on illegals?
That's a bunch of bs.
What law is preventing the bill from including verbiage saying that "No federal money money included in this bill will be designated for grants that will benefit undocumented aliens."
Also you are completely ignoring the fact that they wouldn't accept the amendment screening for illegals.
And they specifically included verbiage not requiring documentation from applicants.
I'm dying to see the law that forbids this verbiage in the bill.
If the intention was to deny illegals benefits, I would certainly think that 1018 pages could've included some actual preventive measures in writing.
Digging my own grave...what? Wow! You really get carried away with yourself. Digging my own grave...lol
quill,
This is why Medicare and Medicaid have unfunded liabilities of almost 40 trillion $$$$$$$$$$$$, when your insurance company will only pay a pittance, yet still are making HUGE profits for their owners and shareholders
"There is existing federal law which limits federal monies being spent on undocumented workers. The states can override such law. Your issue is with the states, not with the federal government."
Under federal law it's illegal for illegals to sneak into America or for business's to employ these illegals.
HOW ARE THOSE LAWS WORKING KSAND99?
Oh look.. a red crested sapsucucker.
KSAN SAID - "appreciate that, but I've got a lot of time"
Of course you have a lot of time to address hundreds of comments a week. All liberals have a lot of time to blog daily. It's not like any of you work or have meaningful jobs. Most of you just sit on the couch collecting government handouts provide by hard working majority of the tax paying Americans such as myself.
That's the most honest statement (and the only honest statement) that I've seen KSAN make so far. He does have a lot of time compared to working Americans.