Tuesday, May 30, 2006 | 7:21 a.m.
Here are some examples of the dialogue on the Boulder City Internet chat site:
On proposed utility rate hikes:
"If you really believe that the city is lying and proffering a bogus or fake reason for the need to increase the utility rates ... I challenge you to contact the District Attorney's Office. ... Of course, the DA will want solid proof that the city is deceiving the public - not merely your innuendo or hatred for those whom the majority of the voters had elected." - Community Development Director Brok Armantrout
Response from resident Frank Fisher:
"Now, Mr. Armantrout, those are inflammatory words. I know of no one who hates anyone (well, maybe one exception and that is more like pity and intense dislike) and those of us who strive mightily to understand what is going on in our city and to protest what we know are not blessed with the big bucks and full-time employment, like you, to try to get the facts right. ... Never, never, never raise your voice in anger at those of us who exercise our Constitutional right to question and even to disagree."
On whether the city has the right to sell 1,500 acres it owns in Dutchman's Pass:
"Based upon my legal training and years of experience in local government law and my examination of the pertinent documents, I am convinced that Mr. (Sherman) Rattner's general interpretation of the Eldorado Valley issues is flawed and would not survive judicial scrutiny." - City Attorney Dave Olsen
Response from Fisher: "You say that his interpretation is flawed (and) would not survive judicial scrutiny. Well man, let's start with you. Can it survive with you? If not, why, pray tell."
On the city's lawsuit to confiscate the house of a woman accused of being a drug dealer:
"Why the bluster of a lawsuit on 'this poor' woman in the first place? If you truly have no interest in following through on taking the house, why start the suit in the first place? As is my belief in handling guns, never pull one out unless you intend to use it. Never use it as a threat. Same with lawsuits." - person identified only as Bruce
Olsen's response: "For me the issue is not getting to forfeit someone's house. The message being sent to potential drug dealers is this: 'In Boulder City if you operate a commercial drug outfit from your house it's gonna' cost you if you get caught.' And if that message causes one drug dealer to locate his operations somewhere other than Boulder City, it will have been worth it."
Boulder City citizens are finding that you can fight City Hall after all. And they don't even have to leave the comfort of their living room armchairs to do it.
In a high-tech version of the town hall meeting, long a staple of American democracy, Boulder City officials and residents regularly duke it out via an Internet chat site run by citizens who want to share ideas and spark debate about local politics.
No longer is it necessary to wait every two weeks to go to City Council meetings to challenge city policy and seek answers on what Boulder City is doing and why. Instead, the Yahoo chat site affords daily opportunities for people to ask, probe and sometimes, spew venom at their city's leaders in the e-mail versions of the thrusting, parrying and shouting often found in face-to-face debates.
All you need to do is post a message - at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boukldercitypoliticalforum - and wait for someone at City Hall to respond. With more than 90 members and countless other residents who have not joined but read the postings, it serves as another vehicle to inform residents.
"This is the electronic version of city officials getting stopped at the grocery store," said Erik Herzik, a UNR political science professor who called the Web site a cutting-edge tool for local governments to gauge public opinion and correct misconceptions.
"I think you will see more of this. It doesn't replace anything we have now. It just augments it. It reminds me of the old letter to the editor or town hall meeting. It is a way for citizens to engage their government."
And there have been plenty of hot topics in Boulder City to engage in during the past year.
The city moved last summer to seize the home of a woman convicted of misdemeanor marijuana possession, sparking some outrage. Earlier this year, Mayor Robert Ferraro proposed that Boulder City sell prime city land for development and use the proceeds to build a freeway bypass. The mayor also has also proposed funding the freeway with tolls. And a group of Boulder City residents who are regular participants in the forum are behind a proposed ballot initiative that would make every man, woman and child in the community a millionaire by selling city land for development.
Those are among the topics that have prompted dozens of inquiries from citizens and responses from City Attorney Dave Olsen and Community Development Director Brok Armantrout, who join the electronic verbal fray from their offices at City Hall.
Forum participant Nancy Nolette said one advantage of the chat site is that rather than having to track down the right person by phone at City Hall to address an issue, questions posted will be answered by city staffers who monitor the site.
"I think it's great to have them participate and take the time to inform us," said Boulder City resident Sandra Reuther, who manages the forum, started in 2001 by a resident who has since moved away.
"It is the convenience of a town hall meeting within your home," added Boulder City resident Matt Ragan. "And the nice thing about this town hall is it's a place and time at your convenience."
City Manager Vicki Mayes said she does not participate in the forum because of a lack of time, but adds that anything her staff does to provide citizens information is important. The forum is no different from the e-mails that she and staff members receive from the public and respond to, she said.
"City governments are going to have to learn how to communicate in the e-world in the most efficient way," Mayes said. "But I don't know if this is the proper forum or not to get out information."
Such interaction between city staff and residents over the Internet may work better in smaller communities than with larger governments, but the concept is intriguing, said Erik Pappa, Clark County's communications director.
He said he has thought about creating a Web blog to better disseminate information to the public, but has been constrained by limited staffing and resources. Clark County's Web site already averages about 8 million hits a month, with people searching everything from jobs to tax rolls.
"We are always looking for ways to involve citizens in government," Pappa said.
In Boulder City, though the participants may not be looking at each other, the dialogue often is just as heated as that commonly heard at public meetings. The public officials involved sometimes are accused of lying or are personally attacked by their e-mail inquisitors, making them question whether they are wasting their time.
"It is quite common that I get blasted as being another lackey trying to push the party line," said Armantrout, who regularly discusses land use, zoning issues and annexation and other topics that involve the city.
"I often find that amusing and yet frustrating at the same time, as generally there isn't a party line. I am just posting an honest answer to a question that was posed. Often people don't like to hear the truth. They are either convinced I'm hiding something or trying to protect someone else."
Olsen started posting on the site last year to defend himself from "nasty" comments posted about his 2004 DUI conviction. In response to some posters' accusation that he received a light sentence, Olsen provided documentation of how his six-day jail time and other punishment exceeded that of most first-time offenders.
Olsen said he continued to post because people wanted to know the city's legal position and history behind issues such as developers wanting to build in unincorporated Eldorado Valley, and felt that the Web site allowed him to contribute to that understanding. But the city attorney said he has not posted since February, both because he did not want it to interfere with his regular duties and because he had grown tired of criticism.
"Everybody wanted my opinion on everything, and I started to feel like I was pecked to death by chickens," Olsen said. "Most of the participants aren't looking for information but for someone to bounce thoughts off, and basically I was the backboard. They are using it to vent their spleen."
Sherman Rattner, a community activist who has drawn criticism from city officials, said he does not believe city officials have added anything meaningful to the forum. He argues that they end up being shills and disrupt meaningful discussions on serious issues facing the community - and wind up unfairly attacking him.
Rattner speculates that Olsen and other city employees post on the site by using aliases that shield their identity and allow them to say whatever they want - a contention denied by Olsen and other Boulder City staff members.
"When you have city officials going on there to manipulate a public forum to shape things to benefit the city and not disclose who they are is outrageous and an ethical violation," Rattner said.
Armantrout said he posts information as a government representative, although occasionally he also does so as a citizen. During work hours, his responses are work related, and if he posts after work hours, he makes it clear that he is posting as "Brok the average citizen," and not as the community development director.
His after-hour participation typically deals with topics unrelated to government or politics, which makes it easier to separate his opinions from government-related postings.
Armantrout said he is yet to be asked by anyone in City Hall to put a pro-city spin on his postings. If anything, he said, Mayes has said she would prefer that he not post at all.
"There are times when I wish I had followed her advice," Armantrout conceded. "There are some pretty nasty people out there who are out for blood, and don't seem to care who they trample on the way to the kill."
That's why Boulder City Councilwoman Andrea Anderson said she no longer reads the chat site. Although she agrees that anything that city staff can do to inform the public is good, Anderson said some people who routinely use the chat site are so negative that it would be difficult for her to do her job if she relied only on them as a barometer of public opinion.
Whether in person, on the phone, by mail or in an Internet chat room, the most vocal people usually are those who are displeased over something. So many residents who support the city's actions do not bother posting on the Web site, she said.
Although the trend in local government will be to move toward more interaction such as this, Herzik said, he does not expect Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman to abandon his political style for the Internet.
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