Justiceforchrist,

I agree with you that Ray is loved by God and in need of God's grace like the rest of us. In fact many people who know Ray and have been hurt by him are concerned for he and Cathy and the kids.

Repentance, however, means coming to grips with what you have done. Ray himself has taught a recovery model using the twelve steps of addiction. Steps 4 through 9 are beneficial here:

Step 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

I don't think anyone here feels superior to Ray. I think you're simply seeing grave concern over recurring patterns and lack of amends. Ray won't change if he doesn't come to grips with his self deception.

Unless Ray has had a change of heart (and I pray that he has) this article indicates that he is pretending to be ignorant of his actions rather than admitting he did them knowingly. This is old territory for Ray and has been well documented already.

Ray's response in this article is the most troubling, “I had heard of other pastors getting honorary degrees for their life work,” Giunta said. “I thought, ‘That will just make the ministry go further.’ ”

I'm sorry, Ray is simply not this naive to truly believe that he could practice as a Psyd.D without accreditation. His response shows that he still is not fully admitting what he did.

Forgiven? Sure. Repented? Only God knows. Did Ray break the law here? That's up to the officials involved.

Jbug,

With your various defenses of Ray, how do you justify the stethoscope?

How many pastoral counselors, people who have received honorary doctorates or even licensed, accredited (legal) Psychologists go around in a lab coat and stethoscope?

A stethoscope speaks to a medical doctor who uses it to check your heart and lungs. Even a psychologist is not a medical doctor. Or are you now claiming that Ray was an honorary Psychiatrist complete with prescriptive ability?

The stethoscope shows everything we need to know about Ray. He clearly intended to deceive and he clearly has delusions of grandeur. The article indicates that he only wore it when overseas on a mission trip where he thought no one would notice such a massive deception. The poor lady with stomach cramps sure did notice. And, thank God, so did the nurse who was traveling with him.

Whatsinaword,

One critic? Hardly. Ray has displayed this pattern for years. His claim that his bought "honorary degree" would make his ministry go further is unbelievable. People who know Ray know that he is an intelligent man. He is fully aware of certifications and state requirements. In fact, I believe he holds a legitimate Critical Incident Stress Debriefing certification. So he cannot argue ignorance in the doctoral world having sought certification in another field. Ray was caught. its pretty simple. It doesn't take away from the people he has helped, but it sheds light on the many who have been hurt by Ray by these practices.

He wore a stethoscope as a psychologist???? Ray took his need for fame too far this time

MA wrote "To portray him as a someone who intentionally committed fraud for the purpose of financial gains, could not be a more inaccurate portrayal of this man."

MA,

I've known Ray for some time now in a couple of different settings.

Money isn't Ray's motive, fame is. Ray commits fraud because he seeks renown and because he thinks he is free to create his own ethical standards. Life is complex and we all struggle with our issues and this is Ray's. Most of us stay on the right side of the ethical line but Ray has chosen to walk over that line several times and then appealed to ignorance or misunderstanding when caught or confronted. Helping people is one thing. Pretending to be a doctor is quite another.

There is no question that he has helped many people in significant ways and people who know him would agree that he is gifted and compassionate. However, when confronted, the compassionate Ray becomes the manipulator who demonizes any who would call him to account for his actions and words.

The sad truth is that he is a master manipulator AND he desires to help people. His ongoing drive to deceive and impress gets the better of him and has caused much pain to those around him.

I am grateful that the Sun exposed him and I hope he discovers that he can make a difference without the lies and narcissistic behavior he has exhibited for much of his career.

MA wrote "To portray him as a someone who intentionally committed fraud for the purpose of financial gains, could not be a more inaccurate portrayal of this man."

MA,

I've known Ray for some time now in a couple of different settings. The article never stated that he committed fraud for financial gain. (Although the NY Times article clearly makes this connection with a previous incident.)

Money isn't Ray's motive, fame is. Ray commits fraud because he seeks renown and fame and because he thinks he is free to create his own ethical standards. Life is complex and we all struggle with our issues and this is Ray's. Most of us stay on the correct side of the ethical line but Ray has chosen to walk over that line several times and then appealed to ignorance or misunderstanding when caught or confronted. Helping people is one thing. Pretending to be a doctor is quite another.

There is no question that he has helped many people in significant ways and people who know him would agree that he is gifted and compassionate. However, when confronted, the compassionate Ray becomes the manipulator who demonizes any who would call him to account for his actions and words.

The sad truth is that he is a master manipulator AND he desires to help people. His ongoing drive to deceive and impress gets the better of him and has caused much pain to those around him.

I am grateful that the Sun exposed him and I hope he discovers that he can make a difference without the lies and narcissistic behavior he has exhibited for much of his career.