User profile: JohnF

Ms. Ham states, "It's hard for most of us to compare the two authors."

It's not hard, it's impossible. Obama actually wrote his books; Palin had hers ghost written.

And by the way, Ms. Ham, if popularity was the same thing as quality, Britney would be better than Brahms, Grisham would be better than Gogol, and Kincaid would be better than Kandinsky.

The argument just won't wash.

Anyway, in the popularity contest that really mattered, it was Obama/Biden 69.4 million to McCain/Palin 59.9 million. I'll bet my house that if Palin wins the Republican nomination in 2012 we will see similar results.

Books,

I buy into it, but it wasn't crap. Had Ali been unwilling to accept punishment, that would have been crap.

What was crap - and still is crap - is those who feel that their dissent shouldn't carry a price. I think we can both agree that those who ran to Canada are beneath contempt. They enjoyed the privileges of American citizenship and then when something was asked of them, they tucked tail and ran. They were Americans of convenience only; as soon as something was asked of them they ran.

Ali - even if you believe his stance was wrong - was willing to at least stand up and take the punishment that came with his refusal to accept induction.

I think every citizen has the right to decide for himself whether what is being asked of him is unreasonable and to decide whether he wants to comply. As long as the citizen is willing to submit to the rule of law and accept whatever punishment comes with his refusal to comply he'll have my respect.

And for the record, those who chose to go to Viet Nam have my ultimate respect and admiration. Their political leadership let them down, but that was hardly their fault.

Books, Rhooster,

Who died for America in Viet Nam? Anyone?

You need to learn what it truly means to be an Ameican. Does loving America mean blind obedience to authority? Does loving America mean doing whatever the government tells you to do?

If the colonists felt that way there never would have been an America.

Mine is the America of Henry Thoreau and Martin Luther King; of Susan B. Anthony and Thomas Paine; of Thomas Jefferson and yes, Muhammad Ali.

All of these people risked imprisonment and even death to stand up to the legitimate government when they thought the government was wrong. They were willing to take whatever punishment awaited them in order to challenge injustice.

None of those people ever picked up a gun and faced hostile fire. Yet all of those people were far greater Americans than those who meekly bow down to authority when that authority is wrong or - like the people who ran to Canada - take the easy, convenient way out.

Don't be an idiot, Books. Nobody ever said to respect Ali because he's a Muslim.

No American soldier who died in Viet Nam died for his country; he died for someone else's. American soldiers in Viet Nam died for one another. They most certainly did not die to protect America; we weren't threatened in any way whatsoever.

I believe that was Ali's point when he said "I ain't got no quarrel with no Viet Cong." Ali, in doing what he did, was helping to make us a better country. He wasn't alone in thinking that this country was making a grave mistake by being in Viet Nam, but he was one of the very few who was willing to openly defy the government and take his punishment for it. By standing up the way he did he was putting his country first.

If more of the cowards - like those who ran to Canada, or used deferments of one sort or another, or had Daddy pull strings - had demonstrated the kind of courage that Ali did we might not have over 50,000 names on that wall in DC. It was those cowards - the draft dodgers who ran and the Cheneys and Bushes of the world - who put themselves ahead of their country, not Ali.

We seem to have gotten pretty far afield here, but while we're off the subject....

odog,

Muhammad Ali deserves as much respect for his stance on the Viet Nam war as anyone. He, at least, stood up and took his punishment. He could easily have spent quite a few years in jail for his stance on the war (and nearly did) and risked having his career destroyed as well. He paid a very large price for his views and never once ducked his responsibility under the law. He knew that the army would never send him anywhere near a battle zone; they'd have used him to fight exhibitions and entertain the troops. Still, at great personal cost, he defied the law and accepted his punishment. For that he deserves respect.

Contrast what Ali did with what the thousands of draft dodgers who ran to Canada did. Those people were the true cowards. Unlike Ali, David Harris (Joan Baez' husband) and Martin Luther King - who stood up to what they saw as injustice and paid the price for doing so - these people tucked their tails and ran for the border. They did not have the courage of their own convictions and deserve nothing but our scorn.

Contrast what Ali did with what Dick Cheney - who had other priorities - did. Who is more deserving of our respect?

Contrast what Ali did with what George W. Bush - who had his father pull strings so that he would never have to go near Viet Nam - did. Who is more deserving of our respect?

Ali deserves respect.