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Culinary Union organizers have been working in earnest for the last week to get the word out about the union's endorsed candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, and to lock down member support in the run-up to Saturday's caucus.
But two Culinary members supporting Sen. Hillary Clinton say they watched today as two of those field organizers were overzealous in their efforts as they collected pledge cards for Obama in the break room of a Strip casino. The Clinton campaign quickly tried to paint the incident as part of a broader pattern, though introduced no other evidence.
After the Sun worked the story for two hours, this much is clear: What exactly happened this afternoon at Paris Las Vegas depends on whom you talk to. To hear Clinton's campaign and her supporters tell it, the union intimidated a member into caucusing for Obama, demanding that she sign a pledge card -- or face exile from the caucus.
To hear the alleged victim tell it, it was much more of a misunderstanding.
Marie Angers, a cook at Paris, and her son, Matt DeFalco, a kitchen runner at the resort, told the Sun they saw two Culinary representatives intimidate a coworker, Sylvia Antuna, by telling her that she had to support Obama if she wanted to caucus.
Both Angers and DeFalco are supporters of Clinton, whose campaign contacted the Sun about this incident separately.
On top of that, Angers and DeFalco said, the reps handed Antuna an Obama pledge card, telling her she had to sign it to participate in the caucus and that today was the deadline.
"The lady told all of us: Nobody can go to the caucus unless you’re voting for Obama," Angers said. "They have no right to do what they did. This is America. You should be able to vote for who you feel like. It doesn’t matter who the union is endorsing. They can try to persuade us but it doesn't mean people have to vote for them."
But Antuna tells a different story. She said she was filling out a voter registration form when the union reps approached her about Obama. When she told them she wasn't sure about caucusing for him, one rep took her registration form, indeed telling her that she couldn't participate Saturday if she wasn't supporting Obama.
At that point, Antuna said, Angers and DeFalco, who were sitting at a neighboring table, engaged the union rep in a heated discussion. Antuna said she sat silent while both sides swapped words. She doesn't recall the bit about the pledge cards.
One key fact: The union reps spoke broken English.
"It's possible it was a miscommunication," Antuna said.
In fact, Antuna said the Culinary called her later to inform her the union had received her voter registration form, spoken with her supervisor and that she was clear to caucus during her shift on Saturday.
"I don’t even know what to think," she said. "This is totally new to me. I’m just glad I can actually go and caucus."
Antuna said she's undecided on a candidate.
Pilar Weiss, political director of the Culinary, said she would try to find out about the incident.
“I'm not belittling it,” Weiss said. “I'm taking it seriously, and I'm going to look into It. But we’re conducting training all the time with our staff to be respectful of other opinions. We would never engage in voter intimidation.”
She said that with just a few days before the caucus, many members have become emotionally attached to Obama and other candidates, which can lead to misunderstandings and miscommunications.
“We want our members to stick together and support Obama, but our organizers are being trained to know some of our members and their families are participating for other candidates. And we want them to participate,” she said.
———
Updated 8:30 p.m.:
The Culinary Union has investigated and says the source of the drama seemed to be about how one changes one's party registration three days before the caucus.
Antuna was a registered independent, and the union reps were talking to her about how she had to be a Democrat to participate on Saturday, Weiss said.
Hardly scandalous and certainly not intimidation, she added.
Weiss said she suspects the whole incident was drummed up by the enthusiastic Clinton supporters, who got heated when the union reps started pitching Obama.
— Sun reporter J. Patrick Coolican contributed reporting to this post.
This disgusting. And frankly makes the whole process look bad, including Obama.
The Union is clearly intimidating its members.
I wonder how many were denied the chance to caucus because they support Hillary before the Union was caught.
The one thing they should NOT do is fill out pledge cards before they actually arrive to caucus. So to prevent the Union from using them in a head count.
I will be making some calls. And certainly hope the News, and other officials will be present to keep an eye on the proceedings.
Thank you for reporting this! I've been contacting all the major news outlets.
I heard an audio online of a witness to what happened. It sounded pretty bad to me, regardless of the denials and how the union tries to spin it.
This needs to stop. Many of these workers will have a hard enough time understanding the new caucus process, without being pressured. How easy is it to stand up to your bosses when they are hovering over your VOTE?
This whole caucus will be in doubt if this is not come down hard on.
This is happening everywhere, including the Paris. This has to end. The intimidation must end. Union representatives cannot tell us how to vote, and they cannot threaten us by stealing forms or badgering us during our breaks.
Someone needs to put an end to this.
interesting.. voter intimidation is illegal. The clip is worrisome if it is real. I hope judge takes this into consideration when giving tomorrows verdict.
All of you Union wokers need to speak out, Contact Channel13 or anyone in the press demand fairness, and your right to fill out the voter form and caucus for your candidate.
This is unbelievable! I realize it is unclear if the Obama camp had anything to do with this. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn't (just as I give the Clinton campaign the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word when they say they had nothing to do wih the lawsuit). But the behavior of the Culinary Union really makes him look bad and calls into question the legitimacy of the Nevada caucus. I really hope this is investigated thoroughly...this reeks of intimidation and voter fraud. I wonder how many Clinton and Edwards supporters have already felt pressured to back out...I really hope major news outlets pick up on this story. The behavior of these union reps really seems fitting with other articles I have read about the power-playing of the Culinary Union (i.e. they are the only Union that really matters)...if these allegations are true, I don't know what can be done, but I really hope the DNC and Nevada officials take steps to ensure fair and free elections...
This needs to be further investigated. It just cannot stop here as some sort of language barrier miscommunication. Evidence needs to be gathered here. I hope this is not the end to this story. This is America, if this sort of intimidation is occurring, this is illegal. If voters are being intimidated in this way especially those who may not know of their voting rights under the law, the authorities need to be advised to do their own investigation.
Union rights have been deteriorating in this country for years. If this intimidation is going on, not only will this be another debasement of the rule of law, it will be another nail in the coffin of Unions should these Mafia-style strong arm tactics prevail without recompense.
The caucus system is a joke. NV please scrap it!
I think they cheated in IA too to get the "momentum". I've been hearing reports of voter fraud from friends in IA. All you need is a name, birth date and address in IA to caucus. You can also vote in more than one caucus.
Barack Obama's wife said it ALL with her "there ain't no black people in IA!"
RACIST!
Chicago politics, surprised? Vote early and Vote often.
Bla bla bla,
The Clintons are actually accusing people of misconduct? Why can they not start by pointing the fingers at themselves? Frankly I don't like double standard!
I will vote for anyone, but Hillary!
Investigate is the name of the game. No accusing. Get the authorities involved those who think this intimidation is going on. It's as simple as that. Our POTUS election was stolen in 2000 and in 2004, this cannot happen again. It doens't matter if this time it's between candidates who belong to the same party.
If the story is not true, the only way you confirm is to verify. This story is far from over until further steps are taken to interview others. If voter intimidation is allegedly happening to one person, chances are it has happened to at least several. This newspaper would not be worth it's salt if the story is left to die a natural death. Please continue to investigate these allegations until a verification is made one way or the other.
I just spoke to KTNV Channel 13
They are very interested in doing this story.
If anyone here is a Union Member and willing to tell your story, or know anyone who is please write (It can be anonymouse if you like)
PLEASE WRITE
DESK@KTNV.COM
I highly doubt the Culinary is going to investigate. It's up to citizens of this country to report these illegal activites. Voter intimidation is a federal crime. Please contact every news agency you can think of and also make a report to the Vegas FBI.
FBI Las Vegas
John Lawrence Bailey Building
1787 West Lake Mead Boulevard
Las Vegas, Nevada 89106-2135
lasvegas.fbi.gov
(702) 385-1281
Ive written CNN, MSNBC, and spoke to Channel 13.
All I want is a fair and unbiased caucus.
Whoever wins should win fair and square.
The good news is Even IF Obama wins NV after Caucus day they will be able to run things down and if the culinary at these atlarge sites carry Obama to Victory, and voter intimidation is proven.
His run will be OVER.. Americans will not want anyone who will defraud the country to be their next President.
What a shame to waste such a promising career.
Even if he is just as much a victim to the Union as its own members.
I agree Taelyn, in fact, Obama should denounce this endorsement if he is the bigger man. Of course, he's not. It's never been about the people or a fair election (insert playing race card etc) it's only been about himself.
This is outrageous. What kind of a democratic process is this, where workers are bullied and intimidated? It stinks. I believe in unions, but this is way out of bounds and gives unions a bad name. There's a reason our forefathers wanted us to have secret ballots. It's to prevent this kind of corruption of our democracy. I truly feel sorry for these workers. Their lives are hard enough without this kind of stress. Nice going, Obama.
My name is Matt DeFalco. I was there when this all went down. Your all right. It is disgusting. I believe that the union representatives approached sylvia specifically because she appeared to be vulnerable because of her admittingly low level of knowledge on the way the caucus will work. She was sitting with us. Once I realized what was going on, I looked over at the women who represtented the union and said, Are You Out Of Your Mind??? My mother and I couldnt believe it! The union rep had told her that she had to sign a pledge card today that said she would vote for Obama or she couldnt caucus on Saturday. Sylvia said she didnt know if she was going to vote for Obama and the union rep said "Then you can't attend the caucus". And Sylvia believed her! She wasnt going to vote anymore. There is no doubt in my mind after witnessing this and being involved in it that this is not the only incident. Afterwards the union representative showed no remorse for it and never backed down from it until she was told we were going to report her. They have been in and out of the employee cafeteria harrassing people who are on their lunch breaks since the endorsement was announced. Its happening all over the city, no doubts about it. And Something definately ought to be done! My mother and I are are willing to share our story with media outlets if anyone can get us in touch with them...
Hey this is the type of dirty Southside Chicago machine politics Obama is very familiar with.
Matt
Please write to the email above, Channel 13 wants your story. For all of those without a voice in the Union perhaps You and Your Mom can bring out what is happening and either stop or help ensure a fair priocess. PLEASE WRITE. or even Call702-876-1313
<I>But Antuna tells a different story. She said she was filling out a voter registration form when the union reps approached her about Obama. When she told them she wasn’t sure about caucusing for him, one rep took her registration form, indeed telling her that she couldn’t participate Saturday if she wasn’t supporting Obama.</I>
So how is this "a different story" if they were "indeed telling her that she couldn't participate SAt if she wasn't supporting Obama"? Which is exactly what the witnesses reported.
Antuna may have been scared to support the story later (new worker etc) and tried to soften it -- but what you print here does support it.
What a nonsense story. One voter supposedly being intimidated, totally on the word of two Clinton supporters, and when the voter is interviewed she says she wasn't being intimidated. Is this what passes for news in Las Vegas?
I'm a UNION BRICKLAYER that lives in Chicago. If your a working class Democrat get out and support the candidate of YOUR choice,screw the union leaders!We,the rank and file have the power!My international union endorsed Clinton,they didn't ask me or my fellow brothers and sisters,I am supporting JOHN EDWARDS!But please think for yourself and support the candidate of YOUR CHOICE!
Blah BlaH BlaH'
Call the FBI, Call that call this.
What about the Father of Monica Lewinsky and her mother. Who did they called? What news paper did the parents of Monica went to?
How would you like Monica Lewinsky to be your daughter? How would you like Bill Clinton putting a cigar in her vigina, and smoking it? We are talking about a married man. Would you like your wife or your husband to do that to you? Would you not divorce her or him?
And Clinton looking at the American people in the eyes and saying: “I did not have sexually relationship, with that woman". You call that popularity? Do you know how many people are today in American prison because of oral sex or lying to the grand jury?
Now I will ask this question: what is worse; lying to the grand jury or lying to the whole country? I don't understand how a person with normal memory and clear judgment will want to have another four of the Clintons in the White house.
We (democrats) are complaining today about Bush. Do you know who gave us Bush? It is Clinton. Al Gore lost the elections because of Clinton behavior in the white house. Now let reward the Clintons and send them back in the white house. My God are we all crazy or the idea to have a woman president is too romantic to resist?
Holyness the Clinton!!!
Hello,
Taylor Marsh has a recorded interview with a union member recounting her experience of being intimidated. Here's the link.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/audio.php?aud...
The story:
www.taylormarsh.com
(Removed by the site staff)
Hopefully the courts will shut down the casino caucus sites tomorrow, else offer the democrats the opportunity to reschedule the caucus once they can fix this. Hopefully, too, we will see some folks prosecuted for voter intimidation.
For similar accounts in past years about this union, go to www.hillaryis44.com and search for January 17th, 2008 at 12:06 am
On the current 'caucus at work' thing, see www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
<I> Although their endorsement of Obama came late, they predict a near-united front for him, adhering to the labor movement’s notion that division weakens a union’s hand, whether in contract bargaining or politics.
“We believe that everyone has the ability to choose on their own, but normally we all try to stick together,” said Jennifer Grote, 44, who works in food service at the Paris hotel-casino and will serve as a caucus captain on Election Day.
“You cannot divide union workers,” added Leain Vashon, a bell captain at the Paris.</I>
Vile attack sites like those mentioned as "evidence" by Hillary supporters in these comments are part of the reason many people won't vote for her--They know that her campaign will use any lie or smear to get elected.
Bill Clinton was responsible for Al Gore not winning the 2000 election? There are plenty of things to be upset with Bill Clinton about, but Al Gore won the popular vote that year, getting the most votes of any Democrat up to 2000. And he actually won FL but the Republicans on the Supreme Court gave it, and the Electoral College victory, to George Bush. Let's not rewrite history just to blame Bill Clinton.
Maxlongstreet
I work at Paris/Bally's
And I KNOW its true.
Not just 1 person, or 2, or 3.. But even 1 is too many.
The Members are angry and confused.
Many simply wont caucus, Others are ready to yank their dues and kiss the Union goodbye.
The point is , Its happneing, Its wrong. And something needs to be done.
Its kinda like a cockroach or mice.
Even if you only see 1, You know there are lots more you never see.
Gee, I wonder if Harry Reid is pulling his hair out right now?
What a mistake to have a caucus. Should kept it to private votes behind the BLACK BOX VOTING MACHINES. At least we wouldn't look like one big wacky family knifing each other to the rest of the world.
I've been a life long Democrat and would have never ever considered voting for a Republican. I've also always been a Clinton supporter (until they supported the invasion of Iraq so strongly).
Now I am ashamed. The Clintons have become hate- mongers and union-busters and I join the 50% of Americans who'd vote for a dead dog before I'd vote for Clinton again.
I can't believe Culinary workers would break their union for garbage like the Clintons.
I am Culinary, and I will caucus for Clinton. She has what Nevada needs.
Mike_Pridmore,
You wrote: "Bill Clinton was responsible for Al Gore not winning the 2000 election? There are plenty of things to be upset with Bill Clinton about, but Al Gore won the popular vote that year, getting the most votes of any Democrat up to 2000. And he actually won FL but the Republicans on the Supreme Court gave it, and the Electoral College victory, to George Bush. Let's not rewrite history just to blame Bill Clinton."
ANSWER
No wonder the Clintons will do you over and over: you have short memories and may be the lack of ability to connect to the big picture.
The behavior of Clinton in the 90s turned off a lot of democrats to start with. Had Bill behave better, many more people including democrats would have voted for the democrats, hence Al Gore would have owned. We would have had enough votes, delegates, and we would have won enough states to render the recounts and the Supreme Court irrelevant on determining 2000 elections
Just look at the transition Reagan and Bush. Bill Clinton was such a liability for the democrats so that he could not even campaign for Al Gore.
The intellectual ability to connect the cause and effect is very necessary in politics. Those who don’t have it will always be used by people like the Clinton. They just need to do a make over, and people will follow them again.
Taelyn, you write "The one thing they should NOT do is fill out pledge cards before they actually arrive to caucus."
EVERY campaign tries to have potential supporters fill out pledge cards long before the caucus. It's standard operating procedure for every campaign. In Iowa, the press wrote extensively about how Hillary would ask her people how many pledge cards they had collected that day. It is THE game to lock up supporters.
Wow, this seems more serious than the article suggests. Shouldn't it be headline news? If there is any possibility of intimidation, these union caucus sites must be stopped.
Dusacre,
You don't care one bit about the truth do you. It is okay to you to lie, on impulse, just to make our party look bad.
Either you are ignorant, have a race agenda, or you are a republican pretending to be a democrat. Whatever the case, you have no credibility here and on none of these posts.
These actions by the union are serious. Remember how the African American community got so upset in the Florida election when they were turned away from the voting booths by republican operatives. What is happening in the Casinos is no different that what happened in Florida.
I guess the message from the Obama supporters is "if it happens to us, it's racism, but if we do it to you, it's politics."
Obama should appologize to the people of Nevada and he should refuse the endorsement of the Culinary Union in Nevada. But he won't because words are more important than actions, right.
I was joking when I said the Obama mantra is "YES WE SCAM" but apparently I was right.
Great comments. Its not wrong whoever you pick, just pick for yourself!
Very interesting how the establishment of the FBI and a news channel are soliciting on here, gives me a queasy Big Brother feeling if you ask me. Unions suck in that they don't always represent the interests of the people within them. The leaders make decisions without asking their members. Union leaders take advantage of weak people, and ardent members use heavy peer pressure, and in this case illegal tactics. Its nothing new, its called politics. I'm in a union and don't consider the union's endorsement at all when voting. My union supports Hillary, but they never asked me. Not that I care what they say, I'm voting for who I want, in this case Obama. Its not wrong whoever you pick, just pick for yourself.
Also to note-
The Culinary Union does NOT allow Republicans to vote at these casino caucuses. So if you are a Union employee AND a Republican, they will NOT let you vote. What is that about?
This Union needs to stop blaming the Clinton campaign for this. This was never about Hillary Clinton. Just because you have employees that won't support your empty suit of buzzwords you should not be allowed to intimidate them. John Edwards supporters also know the deal here. You passed him over to support Obama. Why? Does he love your lobbyists more? Or maybe because Edwards wants to up the minimum wage and adjust it yearly for inflation? Hmmmm. Not only do you not want to fairly pay your workers and support someone who wants them to receive a fair wage, you intimidate them into voting for your empty suit. What a DISGRACE.
You do not OWN your workers! Stop the intimidating and strong arming NOW!
blah blah blah...
Clinton spin.
This time it's a 'vast left wing conspiracy'
This is extremely unfair and un-American. What does Obama's campaign hope to gain by forcing voters to caucus for him and suppress the votes of those that do not support him?
By suppressing and forcing people to vote the way they want you to is equivalent of what happens in a 3rd world country.
Mr. Obama - HOW IS THAT CHANGE? YOU are the one that proclaims to want to bring ethics back to Government, but YOU support this tactic of strong-arming the culinary members into voting for you.
Mr. Obama you want ethics reform, yet you have business dealings that are quite questionable with a buiness developer under indictment for fraud and bribery in Illinois with a land deal you and he did together, Mr. Tony Rezko.
OBAMA LIES
Thursday AM... From the UPDATE ABOVE:
"The Culinary Union has investigated and says the source of the drama seemed to be about how one changes one’s party registration three days before the caucus.
Antuna was a registered independent, and the union reps were talking to her about how she had to be a Democrat to participate on Saturday, Weiss said.
Hardly scandalous and certainly not intimidation, she added.
Weiss said she suspects the whole incident was drummed up by the enthusiastic Clinton supporters, who got heated when the union reps started pitching Obama."
Okay, now that the hype and hysteria over what happened is cleared up and the dust has settled, are Marie Angers and her son Matt DeFalco, ready to retract the tales that they told and have blown out of proportion?
I bet not.
OBAMA '08 -- Si, Se Puede!
Darryl,
I am an American who happens to be a democrat, who will vote for the best candidate to bring the democrats in the white house. Assuming that this nominee is not Hillary, I won’t vote for her. Why not? The Clintons are not the best choice to go in the Whitehouse again. They have shamed us the last 8 years they were in our Whitehouse!
I see myself as an American; I don't care about race, skin color, and gender. I agree with you that the vote of each person should count and even more, I believe that people should be free to choose their presidents. The Culinary decided to go for Obama; the Clinton could not leave that alone. They put pressures to divide them. They are pressuring people by law suit, and the elite establishment of the Democratic Party in NV is indirectly or directly causing pressure on the poor workers. All those actions put psychological pressures on those poor workers. People in the news or in this discussion don't speak about that.
Most people are only used to react on what they see, or hear. But their brains seem short off to other external factors. The Clintons have make a profession on using people. They know what button to push while looking totally or almost innocent. They are calculated and very conning.
By Nature of a union such as the culinary is a group of working people who have joined together for a stronger voice in the workplace – a vote and a voice that speaks up for families, health care, safety, dignity and job security.
The members of a union don’t need to have initially the same view, but through internal negotiation, the group comes forth with the same voice that will make them stronger. In other word, the culinary have the right to debate amount themselves whom they want to vote for. Leave them alone, they can do their own arbitrage other wise they would have not have the organization that lasted for years
We don’t have the Clintons complaining about the unions that are supporting them.
.
OMG, I can't believe this is happening in America. How low do you have to go to get votes?
********STOP COOKING THE VOTES************
So three people, THREE have stated that the union rep told this woman she had to support Obama to go to the caucus and it was the last day to sign up, and that gets changed to she has to be a Democrat to participate by the Union. Gee i wonder who to believe.
First of all you can register at the caucus site, democrat, republican, independent. Doesn't matter. yes you have to change to Democrat but there is no deadline, just show up on time.
This is clearly an attempt to intimidate voters and this union rep should be removed from their position of authority immediately.
These caucus sites need to be shut down and hopefully that will be done later today.
Yeah I wonder how many people didn't get permission to caucus or get time off their shift if they weren't supporting Obama.
This is an outrage to democracy. Hopefully these votes are challenged afterwards, even if the caucus sites are allowed to go ahead.
What the Culinary union is doing is just plain wrong and the Democratic Party should hang its head in shame for allowing these workers to be intimidated in this fashion.
This is not the first time this union has been known for strong arming it's members to do what it wants it to do.
This is racketeering at it's best. The union has always been that way.
Don't blame the candidates for the unions actions. They are not behind this.
Al Capone would be very proud today if he was still around.
Jade, the culinary union investigated itself and found itself innocent of the claims made against it.
Wow! Thank you for restoring my faith in the good old red, white and blue.
What is wrong with you?
Where was Barack Obama??!! Was he too lazy to show up for work this day?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-mar......
Joseph Wilson Hits Obama on Iraq
Posted January 15, 2008 | 07:00 PM (EST)
by Taylor Marsh
I had a very interesting conversation with Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson over the weekend on foreign policy issues. Wilson was blunt when it came to Obama on Iraq, as well as Pakistan, which you'll see below. ……….
………Hitting the last part of the interview, I ended by asking Joseph Wilson about Iraq and given that Clinton and Obama have the identical voting records in the Senate, what does he make of the political volleying, with Obama trying to make an issue out of his speech versus Clinton's vote on the Iraq war resolution. After all, Joseph Wilson was in the eye of the storm.
Continued...
"Well, I think the fact that's dominated the narrative is an indication of how little people really understand the dynamics of the debate as it was going on at the time. And the people making a lot of hay over this weren't there. I was there. I was fighting the fight. I looked to the left of me. I looked to the right of me. I didn't see Barack Obama anywhere. I was out there and there is nobody who can deny that. ... I didn't talk to Edwards about it because he was a co-sponsor of that particular resolution, whereas a lot of us were trying to fight for more restrictive language. Being in the minority, you couldn't get that restrictive language at that time. So what happened the day after the bill was passed? Hillary Clinton and Robert Byrd went down and submitted another bill which further restricted, attempted to restrict the ability for the president to act. But in actual fact, those who were there are the debate will remember that the American people and the U.S. Congress were sold on this resolution not because the president wanted to go to war, because he said publicly, I do not want this resolution to go to war. I want this resolution so I can get to the United Nations and get intrusive inspections. That's what Colin Powell said. That's what the president of the United States said and that's what they got. They got a resolution that permitted the president of the United States to go to the U.N. and get intrusive inspections. The great betrayal of the America people is not in that Resolution. It was in the president not allowing the inspections to reach their natural conclusions. Her short circuited the process. That is the betrayal of the country. That is the betrayal of the Congress. That's the betrayal of the American people. That's the betrayal of the world. People who don't remember that are trying to spin this for their own particular short-term partisan interest and they should not be allowed to get away with it. The most important thing of course now, that aside, ... is what is it going to take to get out of there in a way that, one, protects our national security interests, which has been terribly compromised in the region. ...
Typical Clinton...wake up Nevada, we need a change, this is Obama's time, the Clinton are so last season. A new day calls for new leadership. That generation had their chance, and the current day mess is because of the inability to draw the sides together and solve America's challenges. Hillary divides and Obama unites. The is just a Nevada pissing match blip in the process.
Girly_Girl,
Bla bla bla
KidFromVegas,
Elections like this are not about what is and isn't fashionable. It is about knowing which actions to take, and not which words to speak. It is not about poetry, it is about prose.
Not knowing the right action from the wrong could can have a life or death impact on some people's lives.
It could mean some kids cannot go to college.
It could mean some families will become homeless.
It could mean we could extend our occupation in the middle-east.
It could mean more people could lose their jobs.
It could mean some people cannot get life insurance.
It could mean a possible worsening environment.
So last season! That is amazing.
It was the last seasons who fought and died for your freedom.
It was the last seasons who built the country.
It was the last seasons who sacraficed to even make it possible for Obama to run.
Experience in troubled times, such as the ones we have now, is essential for good and responsible navigation. Obama may be who you like, but we will need someone with considerably more experience than him to navigate us through the next four years.
Girly_Girl,
You are delusional.
You simply CAN'T caucus at more than one location in Iowa - you can't just walk in, vote, then leave. You have to stay until it is OVER - and you surely can't just waltz in to another precinct. They close the doors - and once they do, nobody can get in.
By the way, I suggest you read the update to this article.
Taelyn, you are equally delusional. Was it the Obama campaign that wanted to set up these at large precincts? No. It was the state Democratic party. Obama did NOT defraud ANYONE.
The only thing the American public is going to take from all this is the fact that the Hillary people didn't start whining until AFTER they didn't get the culinary endorsement.
It won't be that big of a deal, though. Nobody is surprised. Everyone will brush it off as "typical Clinton politics."
Darryl -
Are you honestly still clinging on to the "Clinton has more experience than Obama" fallacy?
Clinging to a fallacy? I am from Illinois, and I can tell you that once you get away from the South side of Chicago, Obama is considered nothing - a non-contender, a man who talks endlessly and does nothing.
It is a fact that nationwide, an Obama candidacy in the general election will move more democrats over to the Republican party than was seen during the Civil Rights years and the Reagan years.
We all know the man has done nothing for those of us in Illinois. That is not a fallacy - that is our collective reality unless you are, of course, delusional which would give you a different take.
Max
Under normal situations I agree.
But.. In these cases The Union reps are arranging workers to get time off work to caucus based on these pledge cards.
An Obama pledge almost pushes you to the front of the line, wheras a Clinton or Edwards cards kicks you to the back.
Do you suppose these hotels are going to let ALL these workers off between 11 am and 1 pm on Saturday ? No .. only a portion, And I am concerned that The union is taking advantage of the pledge card and picking and choosing who will be allowed to caucus, In a way It gives them almost FULL control over the numbers.
Its disgusting.And sounds very very illegal.
To the Obama supporters who think this is all about people blaming Obama, it isn't. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I believe he had nothing to do with this.
HOWEVER, that does not make it fair or appropriate for the Culinary Union to strongarm their workers. Their attitude is more about showing the state just how much power they have, instead of what is in the best interests of their workers (the ability to caucus at work for whichever candidate they support). I just don't buy the idea that the Union fairly investigated itself and came out with no wrongdoing...I think this merits an independent investigation, one not conducted by the Union.
Even if you look at the quote of the woman who the Union rep was talking to, it is pretty clear that there was something shady going on...she still says she thought she could not vote. Why is it that we assume that two people who saw this happening and spoke out are lying, even without an investigation? I am guessing there could be consequences for their speaking out since they are part of a Culinary Union, and I just don't think they would be willing to do that to take a cheap shot at Barack Obama.
This is NOT about Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or John Edwards. This is about free and fair elections. What I want to know is where is Dennis Kucinich in all of this? He was the first one to cry out for a recount in NH so we could all feel confident about the results. I hope he will speak out about this too because this seems even more blatant than some far-fetched theory about electronic voting hacking (though I have no problem with the recount, the more confident we can feel with results, the better). I have to say, after all that has gone on with the Culinary Union, I have no confidence in the Nevada Caucus results, and I believe this should be thoroughly investigated by the DNC...
Please everyone, stop making this about individual candidates - it is not about Barack Obama and withdrawing support from him. It is about ensuring that all workers have the right to FREE AND FAIR elections. We have already disenfranchised many with this caucus process (nurses, teachers, etc, who have to work, Jewish people, etc) and we have given special consideration to the Culinary Union (this is a fact, and it would remain a fact whether they had supported Clinton or Edwards)...so lets at least make sure that they run a fair and free process...
AfromIA
I dont Blame Obama,
I Blame the UNION!
I know the allegations are true because Ive seen it, and heard about it at my place of work.
Also maxlongstreet.
Only campaigns should collect pledge cards NOT Unions. They are a Tool for Campaign workers in a candidates camp. They are not supposed to be used to influence the rights of voters.
Darryl,
Don't be silly. Clinton is not even CLOSE to being as electable as Obama -
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?I...
This is from October, of course, but I imagine that 50% has gone nowhere but UP. It certainly couldn't have gone down.
Either Democrats like her or they don't. They don't "sort of" like her. Republicans would NEVER vote for her.
I'm one (of I suspect MANY) democrats would would NEVER vote for Hillary Clinton.
Clinton:
Polarizing. Manipulative. Slimy.
BAD for our country.
Another example of the Clintons dirty tricks and attempts at clouding the issues. Nothing went on that was inappropriate as was finally borne out.
Funny, because I would never vote for Obama, and I know MANY people who feel the same way. I started off thinking that I could, but I fear that his incompetence would destroy this country. And while I once said that I could see myself voting for him someday, I have since realized that I would have a hard time accepting someone who allows outright bigots to campaign for them (Donnie McClurkin is who I am reffering to specifically. After going on a tirade about homosexuals at a fundraising event, Obama would not denounce him from his campaign, and said that we can all have differing views under the umbrella of unity. Differing views is fine, bigotry is not). And personally, I find Senator Clinton quite charming. But I am not voting for her because she is charming, but because I believe she is extremely smart and has the best interests of our middle class at heart. And she is the one who has the audacity to take on the right-wing nuts who want to ban gay marriage, continue giving tax cuts to the rich, and prevent everyone in this country from having health insurance. Some of us have real concerns that affect our daily lives, such as the economy, such as a lack of health insurance, such as childcare, and cannot give our votes to someone based on a wing and a prayer. I simply do not feel confident that Barack Obama has the capacity to go beyond vision and get things done. I KNOW that Hillary Clinton does.
Being from Chicago the quote vote early vote often doesnt apply anymore and the quote itself was used by Sen.Mccain not Sen.Obama this year.
Girly_girl,you are a Troll!
I've read enough of your trashing and twisting of facts on the ABC News board.If you are against a candidate then have the intelligence to research and point out the FACTS!Thats what adults do ya know.
Speaking of facts try this one on America
Clinton:The inauthentic Candidate
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.as...
If your going to sread something....Spread The Truth!
Amazing that any Culinary worker would support the Clintons after the Clintons tried to take their vote away!!!!
Not just a scab but a really really dumb scab.
The voter intimidation is still occurring. My colleagues and friends are still complaining about the union bosses. This has to stop.
Vegasshiftguy, Please call your local media, or one of the big news outlets even! If you are willing to speak out (and I know that is asking a lot), you might be able to get the media to take this more seriously!
AfromIA,
The problem with youthful voters and idealist is that reality really doesn't care about what they think is or would be a perfect world. Reality is reality. And this is the reality of our culture and our country.
-------------
In a general election, Obama will not carry one Southern State. Whether we like it or not, when the 527s get done with him, he will be lucky if he can carry two states out of 50. The problem is that when the voters turn away from the Democratic party in the GE, they will also vote for Republican Senators and we will lose control of the Senate.
Why won't Obama win? They are called 527s and they are legal and when they are done with Obama, his name will have less influence in our party than Kerry. Right now, even the Democrats don't want to hear anything from him and he was a war veteran and a hero.
Here is what will happen to Obama. The 527s will gladly bring race back into this issue. Their catch phrases will include things such as describing him as being the "Affirmative Action Candidate" which is a nasty word to a large portion of European Americans, they will try to link him to Muslim radicals and will do so easily. They will go after his wife and portray her as a hard core racist, and they will expose his church as being anything but a Christian center.
You can get as mad at me as you please, but I am here to assure you that your candidate, Senator Hussein Obama will not be left alone from this point on.
By the way, just to make my point. Take a look at what the group SwiftBoot (not SwiftBoat) is trying to do to McCain. That is Bible School compared to what they will do to Obama.
readers: this post was updated again.
Why is John Edwards rarely mentioned in the conversation. The latest polls have him in a dead heat in Nevada.
I urge everyone to at least check John Edwards out or go to his website. He is the candidate that will have your best interest at heart, every single day in the white house.
I live in South Carolina and in a general election, John is the only candidate who can win the general election. (I know this not only from polls which point this out, but also from living here in the south. John will get many independents in SC which make up over 30% of the voters.
Also polls in NC show that John is the only Dem to beat a republican in a general election....And he beats every single Republican in the polls).
John will stand up for you every day, and is the only elect-able Democrat in a general election. I hope many in Nevada will stand up for him on Saturday!
IF, it is found true that Union reps deprived some people of voting their choice, Obama could be in danger of having all votes for him at that caucus ruled null and void. NO VOTES! This is highly unfair to his supporters but so is disenfranchising voters. Anyone who witnessess this should report it immediately and take names! VOTE HILLARY CLINTON 2008!