Las Vegas Sun

Discussion: 10 comments so far...

1. By NVMojo

   1/14/08 at 8:23 p.m.

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   I hope the full story comes out about this! Including what role these plaintiffs played in doing nothing until the week before the caucus and 2 days after Obama got the Culinary Union endorsement. What a bunch of petty players.

2. By SmileLV

   1/14/08 at 9:24 p.m.

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   No wonder teachers have so little respect in our community. Look at their leadership.

3. By SunDog

   1/14/08 at 9:40 p.m.

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   Alright teachers, now's the time to really stand up to Warne and these other clowns running your union--get out and caucus the ABC way: Anyone But Clinton. What a bunch of whiners--waaah, Billary didn't get the Culinary Union endorsement, waaaaah, so let's file a lawsuit!

   BTW, you same idiots didn't question this back in March so how lame do you look now???

4. By CHernan

   1/14/08 at 10:19 p.m.

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   Jon Ralston has said that many of the plaintiffs in this suit are Edwards supporters so why blame Hillary.

5. By OldTimeDemocrat

   1/14/08 at 10:32 p.m.

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   Comment Part 1:

   I've been reading complex court pleadings for 30 years. I've read the Memorandum of Points and Authorities of Fact and Law, in support of the plaintiff's motion for a TRO and preliminary injunction against the holding of the at-large caucuses. My favored candidate is not going to win the Nevada Caucus, so my comments are unbiased.

   The legal writing in the Memorandum is clear, convincing and generally excellent. The plaintiffs were wise to choose Kummer Kaemfer et al. Their writing is equal to the best writing which comes out of New York and LA. Clear legal writing is essential if the plaintiffs are to prevail.

   The legal reasoning in the Memorandum is clear and direct, rather than muddy and tortured. The cases cited support the plaintiffs' Federal law contention, that the over weighted voting at the Strip caucuses violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Federal constitution.

   The legal reasoning, applying the Nevada Constitution and the Nevada elections law to the facts is also clear and direct. The plaintiffs' lawyers have done a good job showing (1) the holding of the Strip caucuses is illegal under the Nevada elections law and (2) the Democratic Party made a number of significant procedural errors in publishing legal documents required to set up the whole caucus system.

   A key point in the legal analysis of the facts is that the Nevada Democratic Party failed to include the Strip caucus sites on the official election maps of precincts. And Nevada election law requires that all precincts be shown. In addition, the facts proven in the pleadings show that there are at least 2 different precinct maps posted on official websites. [As a result, the dumb laymanlike argument made by the first poster, as well as by Obama & Co. that the plaintiffs should be estopped from complaining so late in the game is simply not a valid legal argument. There is no estoppel when official documents are inconsistent and unlawful in their content.]

   As a result, on substance, the plaintiffs should win.

   [Continued in Comment Part 2]

6. By OldTimeDemocrat

   1/14/08 at 10:41 p.m.

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   Comment Part 2:

   But there's always a catch. It is very difficult to obtain a TRO and preliminary injunction in Federal court. Why? As a practical matter because most Federal judges are egomaniacal, ball busting, narcisistic, lazy a*holes who have no respect for the Constitution, in terms of giving aggrieved parties timely relief.

   The technical reason that it's hard to get a TRO/preliminary injunction in Federal court is that the plaintiff generally has to show (1) he is likely to win at trial and (2) actual IRREPARABLE harm if the TRO/preliminary injunction is denied. That showing of actual irreparable harm requirement is usually tough to meet, because of the personalities of Federal judges. Generally, they view violation of ones constitutional rights as not being a harm which is irreparable.

   I, personally, would not have filed this case in Federal court, given my view of Federal court judges and the comparative difficulty in getting TRO/preliminary injunctive relief in Federal court. In reading the pleadings in this case, it's clear that the case could have been filed in either Federal or state court.

   There's a Federal legal doctrine called "Younger Colorado" and another one called "abstention" which lets Federal judges avoid making decisions if they can kick a case to a state court.

   Even though both the Federal and Nevada Constitutions equal protection clauses, and the Nevada elections law, have clearly been violated by the establishment of the Strip caucuses, and violated a second time by giving the Strip caucuses grossly overweighted votes, the attempt to obtain the TRO/preliminary injunction to stop the Strip caucuses may fail for the reason set forth in the preceding paragraphs.

   That DOES NOT mean that the case has no merit, or that the plaintiffs will not win at trial. It's simply that the Federal court system sucks in terms of giving citizens whose rights are violated any quick relief. That is an important point to remember, given the sound bite driven press in Las Vegas and the whiny ass laymen who know nothing about the law, like the two clowns who posed before I did.

   So, if you hear a presidential candidate who claims to have been a constitutional law teacher complaining about an untimely lawsuit or an unmeritorious lawsuit or a politically motivated lawsuit, it will tell you something about the candidate's character. As a lawyer, either you revere the Constitution or you don't. And if you don't you will be no better a president that George H. W. Bush.

7. By teacher

   1/15/08 at 6:04 a.m.

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   A teacher, I am disgusted, though not the least little bit surprised, by what this organization has done. It does not represent teachers. I have sent a letter to the editor of the RJ, and I'm sure others have as well. There is one in today's (Jan 15) issue.

   I will be sure to arrive at my caucus location Saturday with registration form in hand to change my party affiliation. And I will certainly not be voting for HC.

   Please do not think that teachers had anything to do with this. We are victims of inept, corrupt organizations that fail to represent us, which is one reason you all are going to see a drop in teacher quality that's going to last years. It's starting already.

   But as long as the public remains silent, and hangs onto its "we work harder than you" myths about cushy hours & retirement, and other nonsense, and as long as we have a fake union, nothing will get better. No president can counter mean-spirited ignorance and a lack of involvement.

8. By aw

   1/15/08 at 6:30 a.m.

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   clever oldtime democrat -

   what is the reply to the fact that four of the plantiffs are the same four who approved the causcus sites in March and against in August?
   
   what sudden revelation compelled these people to file the lawsuit two days after the CW endorsement?

   it's not about constitutional law
   it's about constitutional freedom

9. By aw

   1/15/08 at 7:23 a.m.

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   from the Clinton for President Website - least there be any doubt who is behind the lawsuit to disenfranchise voters (who do not endorse her)

   http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/relea......

   "7/16/2007
   Leaders in Education Endorse Clinton for President
   Hillary Clinton today received the endorsement of a group of Nevada officials known for their leadership in education -- longtime Clark County School District official and current State Senator Joyce Woodhouse, Nevada System of Higher Education Regents Cedric Crear and Thalia Dondero, and Nevada State Education Association (NSEA) Deputy Executive Director Debbie Cahill."

   "These four great leaders -- Joyce, Cedric, Thalia and Debbie -- bring diverse community experiences and networks to our campaign," said Clinton Nevada Chair Rory Reid. "They share Senator Clinton's commitment to making our education system strong and accessible at all levels, so that every American can fulfill his or her potential. We are extremely gratified for their support."

   Nevada State Education Association is the Plantiff in the suit --
   we just went through 7 years of not taking responsibility ---

   Let's move on
   Obama '08

10. By texex

    1/15/08 at 8:24 a.m.

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    Beautiful summation, Old Timer!