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Mon, Nov 21, 2011 (2:41 p.m.)
Las Vegas Sun sports reporters break down the long-awaited high school football state semifinal matchup between Bishop Gorman and Liberty. Are the Patriots ready to hang with the two-time defending state champions?
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dang such a short podcast today....no injury update on Stanley? Was hoping for a little debate on how much Liberty has improved since that loss to Arbor View at start of season.
Nonetheless I think Gorman by 30, however if Gorman makes it out of this game with no injuries it'll be a big plus. Liberty is the hardest hitting team i've seen the last two seasons. They are going to bring it, even if they're down by 4 td's they're going to hit Gorman in the mouth all 4 quarters. I wish it would have been title game last year it was a shame to see them lose to McQueen although the fact that they send 3 McQueen starters to the bench with injuries for the championship game shows how physical a team they are. Can't wait for Saturday
We believe!! And Brewer believes!!! WOW!!! well, well, Patriots...your hard work has paid off! LOL..
To all LV Sun viewers, please come out and support our Patriots! As a proud Patriot parent, I humbly ask that you all come out and support not only Liberty, but on behalf of all the other public high schools in the valley!! We will be playing for them too! I have the utmost respect for BGHS, but let's be real...they have a huge advantage over the rest of the valley. But..beware.. our boys have waited a long time for this match-up..and it goes deeper than a Saturday afternoon football game. I am sure our team would agree, we are very grateful to have come this far and the boys have fought and worked very hard to get where they are. And they are very thankful for this opportunity play in the Semi-finals. That being said, our boys will come prepared and ready to give everything they've got! WE BELIEVE!
And yes, Keifer you are correct! That is one of our chants, and you bolted it out perfectly!! Haha..
GO P A T R I O T S !!!!!! M A N A!!!!!
You have no idea how excited Liberty is for this game. We are all so proud of our team and wish them the best of luck. And yes, the chant is "Red,White,Blue...red white and blue!"
I agree with you ray. Liberty will not be able to run against gorman defense. Both arbor and palo have better running games than liberty and once liberty gets down gorman will be able to score at will. The only way liberty has a chance is if they mix up play callijg and keep gorman on their toes, running 40 times will not work. And most of all special teams. Foothill started almost practically at the 50 yard line all game .. also basic that's right BASIC high school shut down libertys running game, so gorman should have no problem. Yes wiseguy I'm sure you will comment how I'm wrong and am not SMART enough like liberty coaches, but I'm just keeping it real. That being said I hope liberty has a game plan and gives gorman a run for their money
Extremely excited for this game. It will be interesting to see the matchup between Nacua at QB and his brother on Gorman's d-line.
Again reporter1125 is hating on Liberty again. Do you know what shutting down a running game is. You bring up basic, well here are the stats from the basic game. Niko Kapeli 212 yards rushing the rest of the team 74 yards rushing. Thats 286 yards rushing. Oh guess what Kai Nacua threw for 179 yards and 3 touch downs in that game. The final score for the Basic game was 56-21. At the half the score was 42-13.
Against foothill the first time they meet Niko Kapeli ran for 296 yards, Jordan Kapeli ran for 103 yards and Kai Nacua ran for a 100 yards that adds up to 499 yards rushing. The 2nd time foothill and Liberty met Niko Kapeli ran for 60 yards, Jordan Kapeli ran for 137 yards and Kai Nacua ran for a 172 yards that adds up to 369 yards rushing.
So please can someone tell me how did Basic shut down Liberty's rushing game when they gave up 286 yards rushing and how did Foothill shut down Liberty's rushing game when they gave up 499 yards the first time than 369 yards the second time around. Can someone please explain to me how is that possible. Hey i'm from Hawaii and there 1+1 still equals 2. So reporter1125 you say you're just keeping it real, so lets be real. Please explain to me how Basic and Foothill shut down Liberty's rushing game with the stats given to you above. Please everyone feel free to speak your mind on my comment...maybe you have the answer to my question....Im Just Saying....
Reporter 1125, I hate to say it but jussayin is tearing you up. It does look pretty foolish when you say Basic and Foothill shut Liberty down. I saw two of those games and Liberty did mostly whatever they wanted offensively. Just make sure you know what happened before you come on here. I'm not saying your not smart, maybe just misinformed.
Tuasdad, Gorman will not beat Gorman by 30 pts. Matter of fact, Gorman will have their hands full Sat. Sanchez ego may be what costs Gorman. I believe it eats him up that he doesn't get more credit. He has so much talent and a huge staff. They have had several injuries but they have so much depth. Now we'll get to see what he does with the big Stanley kid. Word has it he dislocated his elbow. If Sanchez let's this kid play then you know he's worried. There is no way a kid, especially one with such a future, should be allowed on a field with that serious of an injury. With the position he plays, there won't be any way to completely protect it. Surely, his parents will do what's best for the kid.
All that being said, Liberty has no fear of gorman. Liberty may not be as talented as Gorman but they are way tougher and more physical. Probably more physical than anyone gorman has faced. Liberty has been wanting this game since last year. They will be fired up and will hit Gorman in the mouth from start to finish. Jordan Kapelli is tough as nails. He will be the toughest kid on the field and his teammates feed off his toughness. Liberty also doesn't panic when they get behind. If you noticed, they have been behind, tied, or very close at half time most of the year. Then they wear teams down and finish them in second half. Point being, if their close at half don't be surprised if the beat Gorman. When it's close Sanchez tends to choke up on his play calling in second halfs
Examples of my point on Sanchez, both 4th qtrs of last years Delasalle and Hamilton games. Gorman was in control of both games and questionable plays and loss of composure from Sanchez cost Gorman. He was up 14 pts against a good but not great, Servite team and barely won, even though Servite had no great athletes or much speed.
Gorman seems to at times lose focus and pick up a lot of bad penalties. Example, Palo game. Don't kid yourself and really believe this Liberty team is not as good as Palo. And dont get caught up on their first loss to AV. This liberty team has playmakers. Their big, strong, and experienced on the lines. They play physical. Much like Servite. Also, Liberty is going to have a huge crowd with the whole city pulling for them .
Does anyone know who is considered the home team?
I think this could be very exciting. This is all just an opinion. Hope to hear others.
You know a that a team is good when they start having haters on this forum. Congratulations Liberty. That being said, I think Gorman is untouchable in the state. Hopefully, Liberty can keep it close.
I will say that we need to look at the difference in competition these teams faced this year. I realize that Gorman plays a soft league schedule but, they have played 3 nationally ranked teams, Arbor, and Palo. Liberty on the other hand has not played anyone as good as the previously mentioned teams. Which leads me to this, Liberty will need some time to adjust to the size and talent of Gorman, they have not experienced it this year. Where Gorman has played teams with equal size and more speed, this allows Gorman to get comfortable early. It's hard enough to beat a talented team but, when you have to adjust your game to play at a level you are unaccustomed to playing at, it can be disastrous. Just some food for thought. I would love to see Liberty win, but no matter how I spin it I only see Gorman winning.
oh man liberty fans get bitter when you point out the obvious. your right basic gave up at the end of the game which allowed liberty to run. I to was at the basic game liberty had to pass almost all game cause they got stopped at the line, but you guys will see what happens when liberty tries to run the ball against gorman and think they are more physical let me know how that works haha
ok i feel i need to apologize for upsetting the liberty homers. i am routing for liberty to beat gorman, but i just have a problem with the coahcing staff and the play calling, i know they are planning on coming out and trying to smack gorman in the mouth LIKE ARBOR, AND PALO TRIED, spread them out and run, dont try to run at them with the box loaded or this game is gonna get ugly fast. wiseguy tell your close friends that.
LVfootball...I agree with a couple of your points and say them in my first post. Liberty is the hardest hitting team i've seen the last two years.
While they don't have the depth, speed or size that Armwood, Servite, Hamilton did, they hit just as hard and i give them credit for that. The problem is that while that catches other teams off guard it wont Gorman. Gorman respects Liberty and knows exactly what they have to play against Saturday, plus unlike everyone Liberty has played, Gorman has seen it 4-5 times this season against teams as physical if not more, so it's not like they'll be caught off guard or not know what to do. The only benefit is that Gorman is banged up from playing those physical teams over a long season. Like I said before Gorman will be lucky to leave Saturday without anymore injuries. And unlike Palo who plays a little dirty when they play Gorman, Liberty won't need to do that, they'll put a few Gorman players on their behinds and it'll be a very physical game without any dirty crap like PV.
I guarantee you they are not taking Liberty lightly, i've no doubt they'll be up and ready for. They're probably as excited as Palo since the match up with Liberty has been looming..Now Sanchez' composure, injuries and fatigue? A little factor there, yes. Stanley better not play unless he's 100% and from seeing that injury there's no way that kid should risk injury and a scholarship or two.
Liberty will put more points on Gorman than PV did, I say 14-16 but maybe 20. Nobody in Nevada can play catch up with Gorman. I said it for the Palo game. Realistically PV's defense could hold Gorman to 20-30 points if they have a great game (or like it happened and Gorman shot itself over and over with penalties)...but that PV doesn't have the offense to put 30-40 points on Gorman's D.
I will say opposite for Liberty, they have the style and offense where with a perfect game and a few bounces their way they could** put 20-30 points on Gorman. But their D cannot hold Gorman to under 30. They have can slow the bleeding but can't stop the bleeding. Not being arrogant or dismissive just honest. Gorman is just too explosive offensively. Holding them to 30 points would be a big accomplishment and scoring 30 on them would be an even bigger one. Foothill put 40 points twice on Liberty, Gorman will do same if not more, and keep Liberty's total far below that. You can't have a shoot out with Gorman can't score at same pace.
I am excited for the fans the hard hits we will see Saturday. Honestly i hope some of the soft and fair weather fans from Gorman will be inspired by the Liberty crowd i know you guys will be a loud presence even if you're out of the game. I hate the fact that half Gorman's fans wont stand up on big plays it's like pulling a tooth with some of these elitest.
now now reporter. I dont see that anyone is "bitter" and you have yet to point out anything obvious about Liberty. Besides, I am way too amused by your posts to feel bitter! I'd say the only thing obvious is that you only see what you want to see and then blog like you know what happened at the game. The statistics and game film contradict over and over again what you post about Liberty. And I never made any comment about you not being smart. YOU are the one that repeatedly implies Liberty coaches are not smart enough to win.
It's ok not to be a Liberty fan, but why come on here and just blatantly misrepresent represent the truth and act like you know what you're talking about. The bottom line is...they've made it to the semifinal game and your team did not. Trying to convince anyone that Liberty's game got shut down by this team or that team is tough to swallow when they have a RB with the most yards in the city and maybe even the state.
You also post that Liberty was forced to pass against Basic because they got stopped at the line. Could they have passed by choice? Oh that's right, the Liberty coaches aren't smart enough to make that choice. But how does a team rush 286 yards while being stopped at the line? Oh, maybe cuz it wasn't quite 300 yards so yeah, Liberty got stopped. LOL! Oh wait a minute, Basic gave up at the END of the game. hahaha...that's right! They gave up on trying to stop the run and that's when Liberty could finally rush for 286 yards! You must have attended every Liberty game after they beat your team hoping someone would just crush the Patriots.
Come to the game this Saturday. You might get your wish for Liberty to lose...but then again you might not! No matter what anyone says on here or anywhere else about the game this weekend... if you know or played football, the fact of the matter is there are absolutely no guarantees!
Lvfootball...continued
As for Sanchez and losing composure, absolutely true, though you're comparing oranges and apples. He couldn't keep the team composed at beginning of Hamilton game where they fell behind or at the end of DLS. The penalties against DLS with the Zeger's getting ejected was sad to see, i was embarrassed as an alumi. Thad said Gorman lost composure and gave up those close games to what ended up being the #2 team in the country DLS, and #7 Hamilton at seasons end. Does not excuse loss of composure or penalties, just means you cant afford those types of mistakes when you're playing that caliber of team.
The penalties against Palo were horrendous. But even given the ridiculous amount of penalties Gorman got itself on offense, they still thumped PV, who is no doubt the second best team in the state. Take away 1/3 of those penalties it would have been 42 or 49-7. If they did that against the nationally ranked teams they played Gorman would have lost by 20-30. The point is the teams that challenged Gorman hit as hard as Liberty, as twice as fast and deep. It's not impossible for Liberty to keep it close, but in my humble opinion they are not used to being the team that gets worn down, they are not used to playing bigger or just as hard hitting opponents, Gorman is and that is a factor. It'll be close at halftime but Gorman will pull away in 2nd.
Liberty is very good and very physical and they are not scared of Gorman but likewise Gorman is not scared of them and has seen significantly better opposition than what even the respected and tough Patriots have to offer. If Liberty had a little more depth i'd side a little more
Liberty needs perfect game, they absolutely cannot afford to cough up the ball like they did last week.
I respect Liberty a lot. Put it this way, for the Cheyenne and Arbor View playoff games i went to watch the Basic games instead because I was not the least bit worried. For Saturday's game against Liberty, i'm calling in sick so i can go watch because I know it'll be some good football and i know that there is a chance (albeit a slight chance) that Liberty keeps it too close for comfort and I'd be a nervous wreck waiting for updates if that were to happen. I can't miss this game it's more exciting than the state final the following week.
However you have to remember while Liberty is a developing program with some very good players and is the hardest hitting team in the state, they are not DLS, Hamilton, Servite, Armwood or even Chaparral by any stretch of the imagination. Just a reality not an insult.
Can't wait for kickoff. It's a shame this isn't title game i think both would beat pass happy Reed.
careful there reporter you keep pulling things out of thin air...Vegas beating Liberty was lock, Foothill would playing Gorman saturday and constantly getting called out on your factually disproved comments and you'll be as bad as that Gmartinez guy...wait he hasn't been around for while and you showed up not to long ago. Could you be the same guy?
Kepp it entertaining but it's much better when people debate with reason. Pulling stuff out of thin air that gets called out the second you post it is no fun just laughable.
anyone know if the game will be televised on LVTV or anywhere else?
tuasdad,
Not sure who gmartinez is, but you have to understand that wiseguy is throuwing out useless stats. I was at the basic and foothill game when liberty played both teams. you know how games are alot closer than the score indicates, same goes for stats. Liberty could not run the ball, all these yards that wiseguy keeps showing came when the game was already out of reach. SPECIAL TEAMS WILL KILL LIBERTY
Liberty 56, Basic 21
Liberty 14 28 0 14 --56
Basic 7 6 0 8 --21
42 points at the half, but the offense was shut down. New argument please.
hahahaha... reporter, you already stabbed yourself in the gut, but then you go and twist the knife a few times. Statistics lend a little more credibility to the premise than you being at the games. LOL...
"Liberty could not run the ball, all these yards that wiseguy keeps showing came when the game was already out of reach." Halftime score 42-13, Final score 56-21. Contradict yourself much? Pretty much every time so far! hahaha... How bout we morph my name to "reportersdad" and you morph yours to "funnyguy"! See ya at the game!
Reporter I was at liberty basic too, I will say I had to leave at the half. Basic had their moments and made some.stops but to say Liberty couldn't run the ball because basic stopped them in ludicrous. A better argument would simply be that basic was more in the game than score.indicates. but it was very clear who the better team was that day. Basic is a funny team I enjoyed watching them a number of times this season. They find a way to win..they're not elite but they hang tough look at del sol who had Marshall run for almost 300 yards on basic yet the wolves found a way to win. It's hard to give up 300 yards on ground and win. Anyway you an the martinez guy make a lot of similar comments but I guess its just coincidence.
tuasdad, i guess where we disagree is your opinion that PV is the second best team in the state. And or better than Liberty. Lets compare:
Now this is just my opinion. Doesn't mean its right.
QBs Lib (by a landslide)
Rbs Lib ( States leading rusher and a beast at FB)
O-line Lib (probably 2nd best behind Gorman)
Rec Lib (only because PV doesn't know what a receiver is)
D-line even (Palo really disappointed. Symonette is really good but the rest didn't play very well, and Kapeli and Seau are very good)
Lbs even (Lib #4 is very good PV williams#7 very good, too close to call)
Dbs both teams weak spots(but Liberty has faced alot of potent passing attacks, so at least they are use to it. PV dbs were really disappointing.)
K Lib ( at least they trust their kicker to try FGs)
P PV (Maxwell very good, shame to see him reduced to only a punter for the
most part. Wasn't he the no.2 rb last year behind Wright?)
Returners Palo (Lib doesn't seem to have anyone that can alter game in this area
So, I give Liberty big advantage on offense in every category (I think most all agree on this.)
I think libery has better talent on D but,Palo is better coached in this area and plays better as a team. So maybe very slight edge to PV
special teams Lib has better kicker, PV has better returners. Think I rather have the Kicker.
So Lib offense much better, defenses very close, and special teams even.
I think Liberty is 14-20 pts better than Palo. Just don't see what you see in this Palo team.
However, this doesn't matter anymore since Palo is out.
The big question is the Stanley kid. Is he playing? And can he be effective?
The one thing PV D-line did was they were active which created alot of holding penalties on Gorman. Liberty should be the same.
Last thing, lets back off a little on the 3 OOS games Gorman played. While I appreciate their efforts and playing some recognizable teams, Chap is from a lower division in AZ. Chap was way undersized. Not near the team Hamilton is. Armwood played without their stud RB instead had to use their little speed back (not quite as physical) and Servite, while very well coached and very discipline, has no team speed at all. And I believe their top 2 rbs were out that game too. Although I did think they were much more physical than Gorman. Remember Servite missed, I believe 3 FGs 2 inside the 15 yd line. I could be wrong about this but I think its right. Still don't believe this gorman team is as good as either of the past 2 teams. Lot of D1 talent on those teams.
So I guess their is alot of questions that will be answered on Sat. But love the excitement this game is bringing with all the opinions. Wish it was more like this through the whole season.
Liberty has a better QB and more flexible offense. Liberty is not nearly as limited offensively...but Palo has a much better defense than Liberty, significantly more effective defense. We all know Liberty has gotten better and improved and clicked on all cylinders the further we have gotten into the season, but you cannot dismiss half of their season or games. I have said it before Liberty is 4th best team in the south, 5th best in the state. Until they prove otherwise, enough to overcome that first game and their other hiccups. 4th best is not an insult. It's been clear all year palo and arbor were #2/3 hell i had them ranked #2 and #2 it was that close but not going to drag either team lower because they lost to Gorman
PVs d backs and d line were disappointing? Are you judging them based on their Gorman game or the season as a whole? because that's way off they may have under performed against gorman but on the season? no their d line and dbs did pretty dang well.
Guarantee Palo wouldn't have given up 21 to Desert Pines, 20 to Silverado, 21 to Basic, and 35/41 to Foothill like Liberty did. Could Palo win a shootout like Liberty against Basic? I don't think they could because they can't throw the ball like liberty, but their defense wouldn't allow the other team to put 40 on them either.
I think the argument can be made that the Liberty from the first game is not the same as Liberty now, they've improved a good bit. But a 21 point loss to Arbor is a lot to overcome and simply dismiss and say Liberty is better than arbor and Palo now. Do I think they beat Arbor if they played again? Maybe, i think it'd be a hell of a lot closer. But remember Palo played Arbor week 2 early in the season just like Liberty and even though I think Arbor should have won that game and gave that game away they didn't get anywhere near putting 47 points on palo like they did liberty. even if you take away Arbor's fumbles and hypothetically that means they put up what 21-28 on Palo? That's still half of what they put on Liberty.
Again while we're talking a much improved Liberty team here I don't think you can rank them over Arbor or Palo. Arbor beat them thoroughly, at Liberty, granted first game of season, It was first game for both. Palo got away with a close one against Arbor and both of them dominated the toughest division in town then spanked the SW teams before Gorman stopped them. Liberty has improved but escaped Foothill, twice.
Since we can't have Liberty and Arbor play again I think the argument of Liberty being better than Arbor or Palo and being the 2/3 best in south may be made after saturday. If liberty keeps it close then I think you could argue that improved second half of season Liberty is the better team but i dont think we can make that judgement right now. Specially if you're saying discounting Palo and Arbor for their gorman losses. Wait till Liberty has their them compare the three losses. Every coaches poll and most non liberty fans had, have and will have it 1-Gorman, 2- Palo 3-Arbor 4- Liberty unless Liberty does something spectacular Saturday. Do i think Liberty gives Palo and Arbor a run for their money if they play tomorrow? Absolutely, it would be close game that Liberty could potentially win. But if you're an odds maker picking rankings based on results, strength of schedule, performances throughout the season? Then absolutely it's 1-2-3 like above.
If you look back up in my first response to you i said
"While they don't have the depth, speed or size that Armwood, Servite, Hamilton did, they hit just as hard and i give them credit for that."
I didn't mention Chap in that sentence because no, Chap isn't near a big as the above. As for Chap being lower division, they're still ranked top 50 in pretty much every poll. Armwood is only 6A in Florida who goes up to 8A. While i'm sure Hamilton and Brophy argue that Chap is weak i'll leave that argument to them. At worse Chap is the 2/3 best team in Arizona and still better than any team in nevada not named gorman. As undersized as they were they're still pretty good. As for Armwood they still had a D1 running back and all 5 linemen plus the qb and two of the 3 receivers have D1 offers, the entire offensive line to BCS schools. So even without Jones that was still a team incredibly more talented than even Gorman. And their depth? Beyond what even DLS had last year. That's not even touching their defense. They had a better running back as backup than 95% of backs in town. That back up rb for armwood has as many offers as Shaq Powell, i doubt you'd discount Powell as a crappy back or discredit a team for playing against him instead of Jones. Servite was extremely physical and that's one game I think Gorman was the less physical team. They missed field goals but gorman lost out on a good 14 points on phantom penalties too. Goes both ways there. That Servite game is a perfect example of Gorman having experience not being the more physical team, the Armwood game too.
Liberty hits as hard if not harder than gorman but they don't have the depth to keep up, and Gorman has been hit harder already this season. having seen Liberty twice this season the third will be saturday, I think they're a very good team but again they are not anywhere near the same league as any of the OOS teams Gorman played. Liberty has not played anything near Gorman. They'll be at a disadvantage there.
As for Gorman's ranking, I've said it all year long I don't think Gorman has the depth to be ranked top 10 in country they should be top 20-25. And I think Gorman's 2009 team may have been as good if not better than this years team, they just didn't have the OOS schedule to prove it
I'll say that if there's one advantage Liberty has over Gorman going into this game it's momentum. Sounds silly considering both teams are on a roll but Gorman has slow first quarter against Cheyenne, Arbor and Palo plus they've got several injuries not even counting Stanley. Liberty is running on all cylinders and they'll need to exploit that and have a strong first quarter to make as statement and stay in the game
** sorry that was ridiculously long winded, I just don't want to miss somethign and have liberty fans ragging thinking i'm not giving them credit.
First, Liberty has made several key changes in their lineups. The biggest one being Nacua on defense late in the year. Also, they made several adjustments on their offense including the option. Liberty was even trying some spread in AV game, which they realized was a big mistake. I do believe Liberty has added so many wrinkles to their offense. While AV and PV are still running the same offense they ran in week one.
Palo's dbs are not good at all, mostly because they never hardly see the pass.
EXamples: Leg avg 4 pass att per game
mojave about the same
AV avg 6 att per game
CM avg 5 att per game
Chey avg 3 per game
SR 4 or 5 a game (basically a jv team)
Cent earlier in year about 8 or 9 a game
Faith (different story but they have no lineman or RBs so easy to d defend by everyone except SR)
No I was not going by just the gorman game. The week before, Cent was throwing on them and had them beat. The Popal kid at Cent only had 13 or 14 catches the whole year and then in one game against PV with #24 (Brewer's favorite) covering him he has 9 catches for 125 yds. This was the first time they had been tested against the pass and they struggled badly. Thats my point. Their league style of play hides their weakness.
Cent has a future because they are learning you need some balance. Its easy to stop the run if you put 8 or 9 in the box. Do that to a good team and they'll throw all day long. But don't forget tuasdad that Cent team that had PV beat til a lucky 4th dn play with a minute to go, lost to what you consider a terrible NW team in LV. Oh and then Liberty beat LV by 18.
I know you can't really compare games but you can't put to much into the 1st game of the year either. Just look at the list of teams in the NW. Not the same powers or same teams of 2 or 3 yrs ago. Cheyenne use to be loaded and although they seem to be better than last year they are nowhere near the teams of 3 or 4 yrs ago. Same with CM. I'm just not that sold on the NW this year. maybe next they'll be back but I don't see that either.
I appreciate ALL the comments and opinions made on here regardless whose team you're rooting for. Thank you for keeping it informative with your perspectives and entertaining with your jabs WITHOUT making personal attacks on the players - because last year, it got UGLY!
That being said, I look forward to an awesome game between Liberty's David and Gorman's Goliath.
Forever proud of my #4 and his Patriot brothers.
Redddd, whiitte....bluuuue; Red, white and blue!
If Palo hadn't already beaten centennial 49-12 earlier in the season, i'd give more weight to the centennial game. Palo is clearly better than centennial, that close game was two things: Centennial making adjustments and playing with hear and Palo Verde clearly overlooking a team they whooped ahead to Gorman.
Trust me I don't get anything out of defending Palo, I would love to say that they're not the second best team in the state and they've been passed. I can't in good faith say that I believe that. They didn't have to play against the pass all too much. The easy answer to beating run heavy NW teams is to spread it out, or to stop them throw 8 in the box, the problem is this is high school football in Vegas, most teams don't have 11 solid players, not every position is really good so most teams it's really not that simple they can't count on the corners to cover, specially like Arbor when they tried playing man coverage and got beat, over and over.
A few things here: I love the southeast, i root for the southeast and attending more southeast games than i did gorman games this year. I would love to say that the best team from the Southeast is better than Palo or arbor but if i said that i'd be lying. We shall see Saturday how it turns out, i'm tempted to sit on Liberty side since they're a much more lively crowd than gorman lol It'd be more fun.
tuasdad, you said one thing we both agree on. The gorman team of 2009 was better than this years team. That was the most dominant team I believe this state has ever seen. 8 Scholarship players in Sr class not including John Loyd who could of played anywhere. He was unbelievable. Then the Jr class had J Grimble as well as Zeger, and total of 5 more Scholarship players. Then Powell, Stanley, Scoggins, and Straylow all started on team also. Thats 17 Scholarship players on that one team. Its a shame they didn't or don't get the recognition this years team gets. Its hard to think there has or will ever be a team like that in this state before or after.
But here is to the 2 best teams left. They both have had great years. And I hope they can give us one last great game down here in the South. Whichever wins on Sat. I believe will go to Reno and take care of business and Bring another State Title back to the South.
Agreed
some darn good reading! makes up for the short podcast for sure! good stuff tuasdad et al!
thanks wiseguy, i'm glad lvfootball and Co. are all knowledgeable on HS football here. I'm sure in texas, Cali and Florida they have hundreds of people to chat about HSFB with and you can just chat with a coworker because everybody knows about it, but here we're fewer and far between. we may not always agree, but that's a good thing I like the banter we get here. Except for SG1. Big Thanks to the Sun for having this great football coverage and comment section.
So i watched the Palo/Gorman game just to add the penalties and this is what I have:
My DVR cut off with 3 minutes left in game so these are total up to that point:
Gorman had 11 penalties for total of 120 yards.
8 for 80 yards on offense
2 for 30 on defense
1 for 10 on special teams
Palo had 3 penalties for total of 20 yards
0 on offense
3 for 20 on defense
0 on special teams
Gorman fumbled the ball three times, two of those Palo recovered. 1 in red zone. Those two recovered fumbles resulted in 0 points.
Palo fumbled it once which Gorman recovered but did not score, it penalty'd it's way to a punt instead.
What this means, basically the 2nd (lvfootball i'll go with rankings from every system from local papers to national rankings all year long instead of hypothetical ranking just for parody)
So, the 2nd* best team in the state had a good game defensively and the following things for help:
130 yards in penalties for Gorman, 80 of which were on offense, killing a total of 3 drives, two of which would have almost certainly resulted in points.
3 fumbles, 2 of which Palo recovered, 1 in red zone.
Had Gorman pinned down inside their own 3 yard line twice in first half, both times Gorman drove 97 yards for a td.
0 offensive penalties of their own to slow their drives, in addition to two 15 yard penalties on Gorman's D which gave them first downs as well.
That means Palo had A LOT of things going it's way. Gorman was absolutely horrible for penalties (only one was a blown call which was the intentional grounding, the rest were good calls) the fumbles and them playing a clean game particularly with zero offensive penalties. And still they barely managed to score one touchdown and in all reality couldn't slow Gorman's offense down, gorman's offense did that to themselves with penalties. Add to that Gorman lost their best lineman Stanley in first, also their top DE Smirk is still out, Philippi is still playing with a screw in his foot and Palo had a lot of help.
So while Liberty is more of a threat offensively than Palo, I believe Guru and my assessment is relatively accurate that Liberty will need to have a lot of things bounce their way to have a shot. Palo had A LOT bounce their way and couldn't do much at all. Again not saying Liberty isn't good but this year the stars are all aligned for BG and it shows. I think last years Liberty defense would have a better shot slowing Gorman down than this years. Either way can't wait for Saturday.
Absolutely loving the posts this week. Good luck to both Teams this week. I'm hoping for a great game and for all the kids to come out healthy. On a side note, I recently got an email from our good friend SGNoone asking to meet him to discuss our grievance like men! Haha. Absolute comedy. He also made other references about "pansy Gorman kids" and Vegas being a dump of a city. I love it. I think I'll post his entire email here tomorrow.
Well here's my response. I'll be at the Liberty/Gorman game this week cheering for both teams to play well. This is because i have family on both sides. You can also find me at the next CNOA conference in Reno but it won't be until next year.
Can't wait to see that email
Man I think games like this should be played at the Stadium. Not just because its Liberty and Gorman. I would like to see our Southern Division Championship playoffs be played at the Stadium. I know not to many schools will have big crowds and all, but just imagine if last weeks games were played at the Stadium, maybe the Liberty vs. Foothill game started at 5 than the Gorman vs. Palo game to follow. Could you imagine the number of people that would have been at those games...I say a lot of people who watched the 1st game would guaranteed stayed and watched the 2nd game...i'm jus saying....
Totally agree jussaying. They could have moved games to Sat afternoon, played a doublheader and had maybe 10,000 fans maybe more. This is how they do it in Texas and get huge crowds. Last week they had 3 or 4 games in a row at Cowboys stadium and I believe over 40,000 total fans. I know we wouldn't get any kind of numbers like Texas, so dont anyone go crazy on me. But, more people are off on Sat. Last friday we had a cold night. They could have played the 1st game at 12:00 2nd game at 3 or 3;30. Plus from a marketing stand point you get a much bigger buildup for this weeks game, probably get more players from other schools to come watch since it would be easier and more flexible for them and others to come watch. Weather conditions would be better (normally little warmer during day.) People who are not necessarily affiliated with one of these schools , wouldn't have to choose between games. Fans would get more value for their money with 2 games. The players would love it playing in front of much bigger crowds.
Back to my point about other players around the valley. If your a kid who plays for a team that didn't make it to the Southern Final 4, the atmosphere and excitement would surely get you fired up to work extra hard to play in this setting the following year. Which would be a major promotion of our local High School Football. Now one of the goals would be, to be able to get to this point to give a player, his school, and his family a great final moment in his high school career even if he doesn't win a state championship.
After the 1st year, you should get a momentum boost and the next year the event gets a little bigger. Each year this event becomes more special and the next thing you know, Southern Nevada Football has started a tradition.
Now, the following week (which would be like this week) you could have choices. 1) Have a third place game before the Southern Nevada Championship game (2) Have an All- Star game by Srs. who didn't make it. (3) Play the Jr. high championship game. Or maybe there is a better choice to have leading up to the Championship Game. Not sure these are the best choices, but at least something to help the buildup before the Champ. Game. Anything that creates a buzz or excitement towards our local high school football.
Now, we really have an exciting finish to the season that last a little longer. Gets more people involved. More teams and players involved. A more reachable goal for some schools. More awareness of high school football. And probably more money for the NIAA.
This is just a thought and maybe some may think its crazy. BUT, its worth a try with very little to lose. Unless your happy with the status quo. We can't complain unless we try to improve.
As promised, here is the email I received from SGNoOne via the Sun:
Hello,
The user TeamSG1 sent the following message to you via Las Vegas Sun:
==============================
If you think I'm such an idiot, how about we get together and discuss this like men? I'm not real fond of people hiding behind a keyboard and I'll be more than happy to let you see just who exactly it is that calls out these pansy Gorman kids and trashes this dump of a city along with its mediocre program.
==============================
Please do not reply to this e-mail message. To send TeamSG1 a response, visit this Web page:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/users/TeamSG1...
Now mind you, I've made it clear I normally reside in Cali, so he knows his invitation has very little meat to it. This was in response to a post about him picking on kids and other posts about his fictitious Sci-Fi log-in name. Hope you all enjoy the irony as much as me.
too funny
What everyone is looking past and should be considered is that Gorman has had the pads on longer than any other team in the valley. Earlier because of the Classic in Arizona but the 8 or 9 games they played in 3 days at their Fresno Camp. This is a double edged sword. On the one side they could be tired. Practice 6 days a week without a bye since July can take a massive toll in fatigue and injury. On the other side, Their 2's have more game time than other teams. Plus, if it comes down to it, Gorman has put more time and effort into achieving this 3-pete than others have all year. If you really look at the future of the 2 programs Liberty will be champs next year. I feel Gorman will be second with Arbor View third and Palo fourth.
Lets break down the game by position.
QB: TIE
Don't panic, I believe Soloman(on) sorry if I mispelled that, is a little over-hyped because of the players he is surrounded by. I believe the Nacua kid would be equally successful if he played at Gorman.
RB: Edge to GORMAN
The reason isn't just Powell but Starks who is an absolute monster waiting in the wing. N.Kapeli is a top level back, and J. Kapeli has disappointed me this year. I know a lot of people think N. Kapeli is the best in the state but honestly he benefits from a weak defensive division.
WR: Without a doubt GORMAN
Doesn't really need defending. Probably the best core in town.
OL: Edge to GORMAN
It's possible that the edge changes based on the status of Stanley. But the other 4 starters for Gorman are above average. Liberty has in my opinion 4 average linemen and one above average. I think Liberty presents the best challenge to Gorman d-line.
TE: TIE
I think both starting TE's are very talented. The GORMAN kid blocks a little better if I had to pick one.
DL: GORMAN
SEAU is a nice player for LIBERTY but, GORMAN has too much depth at that position
LB: TIE
GUIDA is good for GORMAN but the rest are suspect. LIBERTY has a solid group no real stars.
CB: GORMAN
This to me is going to be the weak point for LIBERTY in this game more than anything. They will be exposed at this position.
SAFETY: GORMAN
Probably the best safety combination in town.
SPECIALTY: UNDECIDED
I can't really comment on the special teams aspect have paid close enough attention to this aspect to say one way or the other.
THOUGHTS?????
Also, no disrespect intended to any players.
Guru...You are pretty much right on with your positional comparisons. I do believe that Liberty has a slight edge at the QB position because Nacua has been playing at a very high level in the playoffs, both running and passing. I agree with you that RBs goes to Gorman because of Starks. To me, Powell and Kapeli are almost mirror images of themselves in their size and style of running so even if Kapeli may have benefitted from a weak defensive league, I gotta think that he could have done what Powell did if he ran behind Gorman's dominant offensive line. But Liberty does not have a Starks type player in the backfield. Receivers goes to Gorman. As for the offensive and defensive lines, I believe the more accurate comparison is that the Gorman offensive line (with Stanley--does anyone have information if he's playing or not) has the advantage over Liberty's defensive line, but that Liberty's offensive line has the advantage over Gorman's defensive line.
I agree that the LBs are a tie. The defensive secondary is a tie also if Liberty plays Nacua and Kapeli at CBs/Safeties. Special teams I too am not sure because I cant remember having seen Liberty's kicker kick or punt. Gorman's kicker is pretty solid fg kicker but not a very good punter.
Coaching: Tie. Gorman has the experience in having played national teams and having been in the semis for 3 straight years now. But Liberty coaches have done a great job all season and in the playoffs by basically going undefeated after its opening loss to Arbor View.
Like Ive said before, I believe and really hope that the outcome will be decided by a td or a field goal.
Good luck to both teams, but for the reasons I have said before, I hope Liberty comes out with the W.
Ray C, Liberty has a pretty good kicker. I agree with most. The hard thing to believe is Nacua over Solomon. It's hard to say we are talking about Solomon not being better. Especially after the fact he was suppose to be Liberty's QB. But I have to agree Solomon hasn't really gotten any better and Nacua has improve so much. Plus Nacua has become such a threat to run.
Hard to say you (Ray C) and I seem to be in so much agreement tonight but I also agree with you about Nacua and Niko together on defense makes Liberty much better. I don't understand one thing, when did it become such a big deal for kids to play both ways? At the high school level that use to be the norm. I don't think it will affect Liberty at all.
The coaching side your probably right. Im just not that sold on Sanchez. I'd like to see what he would do with another team in the valley. I believe most any coach in the valley could win at Gorman with their talent.
The big question is the Stanley kid. Is he playing or not? That could be big.
Solid comparison GURU... Gormanhomer i think that's something that has to be thought and the biggest reason i worry for a letdown when they play Reed. Very long season, injuries fatigue and they knew Arbor, Palo and LIberty would bring the hammer and got up so i worry they'll go up to Reno and take them lightly. I hope not. I'd love to see an exclamation point at the end of this season.
lvfootball, playing both ways isn't a big deal during most of the season until you play against a team like Gorman. When we played Servite and Armwood your two way players are being run a lot harder than say playing both ways against Basic, Bonanza and Co. So the combination of playing a team with an offensive line as big as Gorman's that wears teams down is the cause for concern. However it goes both ways as Gorman has to play against a big liberty line and hard hitting team, the difference being that it'll be the 5th such time going against a very physical team compared to Liberty's second time this season.
All this debating is fun. I can't wait for next season. I'm a fan of HSFB, i'm lucky that right now my alma mater happens to be doing very well, but i would just as easily be excited to see a Liberty vs Palo etc... final in coming years. I love seeing the best teams win and represent the south and the state.
I do not think that shape will be a big factor in this game, as I will be the first to say that Liberty is the most in shape team in the city, no question. Liberty's advantage will be the amount of conditioning that is incorporated each week during practices, Gorman's being that they have 70+ kids on the sideline waiting to give starters a break.
Not being a fan of either team but understanding what it means to Liberty and the whole state of nevada to watch The Mighty Gorman fall is something that will ease the pain that is high school football in Las Vegas. I'm from california and been to florida, texas, and ohio and football is much different here. I do see nevada coming into its own with more an more athletes being recruited by D1's. Now I will not compare the states because that wouldn't be fair to the other schools in nevada, but I will make this point and that is Gorman is only playing the hand that they are delt. I see comments ranging from dislike all the way to pure hatred for this school. I think as football fans you guys should step back and realize that its a positive as well as a negative. A negative because they tend to dominate the city an state every year and the complaints are in that they are doing everything in the book but the right thing. A positive because when they win YOU win. There is too much negativity for one team and as a football fan I just wanna see a good game and no matter the winner you guys need to just embrace the fact that vegas is on the come up with this high school football.
Patriotic, while liberty may be the most in.shape team right now your reasons are probably a bit partial as maybe you haven't seen other teams practice. I can tell you that of the handful of practices I've seen liberty had a noticeably faster pace and more strenuous drills than say foothill whom I also got to watch. but I guarantee you Gorman practices as hard if not harder same with Palo, Arbor and liberty that's part of what sets them apart. However conditioning does play factor. Li liberty has not played a team as big or physical as Gorman. They jjst haven't. Doesn't mean Gorman.is high and mighty just means the teams liberty has played didn't have the size of Gorman and that will play a factor, albeit potentially a small one.
I will say that Liberty may be in better condition entering this game but not by virtue of working harder. I think both teams probably work incredibly hard and neither less than the other. However Gorman starters have played full games 2 weeks in a row. Liberty has been in 4th quarter shape all season and that may play to their advantage late in the game when liberty is.used to.playing all four quarters. Palo has a big roster and they are one the hardest working teamsin state. They had hands on hips and showed signs.of being worn down as early as the third quarter. This will be.an interesting game specially to see how all these things end up playing out. Will be good discussion post game.
So there was a story on nvpreps bout Gorman basketball said Stanley will miss beginning of season due to that elbow injury so I think that answers our question Stanley will apparently miss final two games. Hope he heals fast and recovers fully
Stanley is in good company with the rest of the Gael's who will also miss the Reed game! Liberty will be playing! Praying for a hard hitting but injury free game for both teams! I never like seeing a kid get hurt. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and Go Patriots! :)
Jtmaddox, well put. I want to see hard hitting but I sure don't want to see anyone get hurt. For Mr. Stanley, hate to see any player miss his teams' last games especially one that has had such a great year and career as you have had. Wish you a quick and complete recovery.
Tuasdad, apparently you haven't seen gorman practice. They are not in the best shape. They're very well coached at the game, but alot of standing around. They do no running before or after. They were exhausted against Servite. They don't have many on both sides of ball. Big problem is now there depth(talented players, not 50 kids that just want a jersey) is thin. They are missing Hunkin, Smirk, now Stanley. Philippi is still not 100%. Gorman needs to get out ahead early. If they don't watch for Sanchez to tighten up late in game. If you remember last year, gorman was wore out in 4ththe qtrs of DLS and Hamilton game.
Truth is gorman is more talented, but Liberty kids are much tougher and more physical. Also better shape. Gorman kids are coddled. Now w Stanley out, the playing field has been leveled. W/o Stanley kid, Liberty now has better -
Liberty now has better O line and D line. That's how much difference Stanley makes. Its a shame Hunkin is out. I believe he was part of warrior program at liberty. Plus glrman could really use him now.
Can you imagine if gorman had played Servite w/o Hunkin or Stanley. Those two made a big difference.
Here's predictions so far, let's add to them:
Sinatra set the line at Gorman -30 and O/U 55
Brewer 44-13 Gorman
Keefer 38-14 Gorman
PaDave 42-14 Gorman
Me - 42-16 Gorman
RayC- by field goal or td but who wins?
Let's get some more in good fun. If you purchase now we will throw northern semi final predictions for free! Ha ha (Tahoe help me out give your northern prediction(
Reed 49 Carson 30
Lvfootball, I didn't comment on Gorman practice since I haven't seen any. Saw liberty, foothill, basic and Palo. before that Servite game Gormans starters had not played 4 quarters since Armwood. That was nearly 5 weeks, hard to stay in 4 quarter game shape when you rarely play 4 quarters, hence why I said above that liberty will be at advantage there. Playing Servite without Stanley or smirk would have been bad, but no offense to liberty but they're not Servite. They're physical they're big but they are nowhere near Servite they might be a top 30 team in California maybe 20 no way near as good as Servite so while the injuries concern me and we have a very good and tough liberty on Saturday no we're not playing a Servite quality team.
Without smirk Stanley has been playing D that'll play a role since that's two big holes left we shall see how back ups perform they'll be tested all game long by Liberty's line.
As far as depth I've said it all season long that Gorman isn't a top ten national team because they don't have the depth. They are more a top 20 team. That said if they were in California, Texas or Florida playoffs these injuries might see them falling to another ranked team. While liberty is a live opponent who is tough, has improved and matches up well against Gorman even with their injuries and long season Gorman should win.
But nothing in guaranteed. muraco said it perfectly they're just 16-17 year old kids like us. Can liberty win? Absolutely, its football that's why we play. That's why everyone is going and can't wait to see this game because you never know. Ask Bishop Manogue. I hope sanchez has coach rice and the basketball team and tell about how bad it felt for.Manogue to beat them.in state semi final by a team that played harder, wanted it more and won despite playing a much more talented team in front of them.
Tuasdad obviously your for your team and that's understandable. But you sell this liberty team way too short. You hold onto that first game like their still playing the same. This team is much improved. Also, your earlier comment you said about gorman that they practice just as hard or harder,your words. Now you say you didn't comment on their practice bcause you haven't seen them. You mention Stanley and Smirk, but your forgetting about Hunkin, who had a big game against Servite. When they go with 5 man front that's three big key players. Plus Stanley on O line.
This is not the same team gorman had when they played Servite. With all these kids injured and out, I believe liberty matches up way better now than they would have if Stanley, Hunkin, and Smirk were playing.
Servite was and is not impressive. They are way overrated. They have to play their lb at slot receiver. Had no speed. Good team, well coached, play physical, but not a great team.
Alot of these liberty kids have played better comp growing up , playing out of state teams in national tournaments and had a lot of success. I think liberty has a chance to win this game. Im going with Lib 28-24. I think with the run game the game will be shortened. I believe gorman will be wore down in 4ththe qtr. Their D line is going to be smaller now and not as strong.
I said i've seen liberty and Foothill and compared the two then said
"but I guarantee you Gorman practices as hard if not harder same with Palo, Arbor and liberty"
If i had seen them practice I would have compared Liberty to Gorman's practice not Foothill's sorry if that wasn't clear. I thought comparing those two and not saying I'd seen Arbor would be clear sorry if it wasn't. Same reason I said Patriotic was saying that no doubt Liberty is in best shape even though they probably haven't seen other teams practice. I saw liberty a couple times last season, this season and saw them practice twice. That's why i say theyre the hardest hitting team in the state. I've seen it.
While Servite wins ugly they're winning ugly against some of the best teams in California and considerably tougher opposition than here. I would bet my left testicle Liberty would play tough but win maybe one game against Mater Dei, Santa Margarita, Servite, Don Bosco and Orange Lutheran, this year... Last years Liberty? I'd say they would have had a very good chance of at least have gone .500
I think i've given LIberty plenty of credit, they're the most physical team in the state? They have a chance to beat Gorman and would beat Reed, they may be better than Arbor and Palo based on how they've improved *may- but there's no way to know for sure since they can't play arbor again, unless they do significantly better than AV and Palo saturday...all things i've said about Liberty not sure how much more credit i can give liberty unless you expect me to say they'll beat gorman.
I didn't even bother going to the second AV vs BG game because I was not worried at all no disrespect to ARbor but i was in no doubt of that outcome. I respect Liberty and know they have a shot that there's no way i'm missing this game and i'm calling in sick to work. I haven't done that for any other Gorman game and certainly can guarantee you i wouldn't if they were playing Foothill. I respect Liberty and while i'm predicting 42-16 for gorman i am not willing to take a chance to miss this game. I am that eager to see them finally play not because it's gorman playing but because it's Liberty against them.
Seriously. And I'm not basing "too much" on that first game. Losing by 10 is one thing losing by 20 at home is a lot to overcome. And maybe your team has, i've said they are definitely improved, but how improved? That's where some of us don't agree.
Foothill, while much improved, does not have an offense comparable to Gorman's and they put 35 and 41 on LIberty...not week one, but last week and three weeks before that. If Foothill can put 35/41 on LIberty trust me Gorman can put that and more, even with injuries. Same Foothill that gave up 30+ points to GV, Basic and Del Sol. And almost 30 to Desert Oasis, Canyon Springs and Durango.
I'll repeat it again. I said Palo D's could slow Gorman and maybe keep them under 30 but they're offense couldn't put that many points on Gorman's D... i'll say (again) the opposite for this game, Liberty has the tools that with a great game they can put points on Gorman but it's their D that in my opinion wont contain Gorman's Offense much.
No Stanley, and with all the same injuries listed above, plus 120 yard in penalties, 3 fumbles and Palo could do nothing. Are you suggesing that Liberty is not only better than Arbor and Palo but that they're A LOT better than them because that's what it sounds like.
I can't wait for us to have a down year or everyone else to have a great year i'll be the first to say another team is better than Gorman. I absolutely enjoy my alma mater but would just as easily give credit where it is due elsewhere, and have done all season. I picked you guys to slaughter Vegas, why? Because you're good. Everyone in town knows you guys have the best youth football program. Nobody is denying that They are good.
Nobody is denying that Gorman isn't banged up or that LIberty doesn't have certain advantages over Gorman. The question isn't whether Liberty has improved everyone acknowledges that they have. The question is how much? We will find out 1pm on Saturday. I can't wait and clearly there are many on here that can't wait either.
*updated*
Brewer 44-13 Gorman
Keefer 38-14 Gorman
PaDave 42-14 Gorman
Me - 42-16 Gorman
RayC- by field goal or td but who wins?
Lvfootballfun 28-24 Liberty
Everyone has an opinion, some of ours differ, that's why this is fun. Saturday might answer who is right or might leave us with more questions than answers we shall see
As if Liberty already have enough motivation. Tesoro beat Servite 24-20 in a huge upset. if Tesoro can beat Servite then nothing should shock me tomorrow
Can't wait for Monday gotta say quickly.
Liberty's offense did what I thought they could and then some. Well done. Liberty's d couldn't last all game. I have to say Liberty would beat Palo and based on their performance would rank them over the Panthers. I loved the pointing and calling out on kick off. that was awesome. They came out with nothing to lose and showed it early on I wish Muraco would have taken chances and put the ball up a little more.
Good job Patriors... Reed will be a handful for us but not as much as you were
Great job Patriots!! I'm sorry someone had to lose. Island Warrior Football has benefitted both Liberty and Gorman!! Proud of all the FB players on the field today. JTMaddox can now jump on Reeds bandwagon.
Well, NO Surprise. Just as we all suspected, Bishop Gorman vs. Reed.
I must admit, I knew Reed would get past Carson, but I didn't see a blow out coming....
Reed 49
Carson 0
Wow...
Liberty boys you put up a great fight that was the best game for the first 3 quarters tht I have seen. You boys played ur hearts out going both ways, but just ran out of gas.. you truly are champions. I do blame liberty coaches for some bad play calling once again they should have mixed it up in the 2nd half.. but liberty boys I ate my words from the things I said about u guys and u proved to be the best public school in the valley next year u guys win state hands down
Tuasdad, I know you've expressed concern about Gorman's depth in the past. Not too shabby for a team with all the injuries. Also, have you seen how many "elite" teams have lost in the playoffs? Hopefully the Gaels can close it out in Reno next week.
I thought my prediction was going to happen with the game being decided by a td or field goal. Liberty played with heart and never gave up. I believe Liberty was right there with Gorman in talent, speed, size and athleticism. But 2 things that Gorman had made the difference: depth and Shaq Powell.
Congratulations to Liberty on a great season and I look forward to seeing QB Nacua and RB Kapeli next year.
Congrats to Liberty. They played their hearts out. RayC I have to disagree with you Liberty just didn't have they players to keep up both at the skill position and the line.
Reed bandwagon? Negative. I'm territorial. I may not be a Gorman fan but I definitely do not want a Northern Region team as State Champ. Congrats BG on the win. Some folks pegged it already. With enough depth to have a rotation and keep players on one side of the ball, the game goes our way. But oh well, shoulda coulda woulda, right? Proud of our team and proud of our Liberty community!
Gorman, great game. Shaq Powell u r special. What a game by u and your teammates. Liberty, you made your school, community, and families proud. Through 2 1/2 qtrs it was a heavyweight slugfest. Unfortunately, gorman made the big play on D by Guida and that became the big difference. Nacua, big heart kid. You left everything on the field even when hurting in 2ndthe half.
Game went like I thought, and Ray c thought but in the end credit goes where its deserved. Gorman you were the better team, now keep title in south.
Tuasdad, appreciate your words in finally agreeing Liberty next best team. And I will say even though I think liberty is extremely physical, gorman is definitely just as physical. We wanted a slugfest and both teams gave us what we came to see. Liberty awesome crowd.
Guru
Ray c is correct depth not having kids have to go both ways and powell are the only differance makers in that game. The lines matched up and powell and starks are the only depth liberty couldn't compete with
CalBear..I noted. I guess maybe i'm too critical sometimes of Gorman I guess i'd rather give them not enough credit than too much and be a homer. You said on Nevada Preps that Gorman scrimmaged Granite Bay at the Fresno camp, i didn't see your response, how did that go?
As for Reed i'm hoping it's not windy or snowing. I want the pass happy Reed to be at their best and see who wins. Even though the best team will find a way to win i'd hate for the "what if" thing to happen.
As for Liberty, I'll rank them above Palo and say that they've improved to probably beat Arbor should they have met again. My problem is their depth and D giving up too many points against less talented teams. If liberty didn't have to play their linemand and QB both ways they'd be scary and nationally ranked if they were about 5-6 good players deeper. I think my assesment was correct, they were in great shape but you can't play 4 quarters both ways against a team like Gorman and expect to not be banged up in second half.
Reporter/RayC i'm going to have to side with Guru and disagree. While Shaq was definitely a difference maker, i think Starks would have had the same amount of success had he gotten the carries. Depth i think was a massive factor. Liberty depended on too many guys playing both ways and it showed in the second half, Gorman, not having to have to do the same clearly helped.
But I very strongly disagree with reporter saying
"not having kids have to go both ways and powell are the only differance makers in that game" Were they factors? Absolutely. I would say depth the bigger one, but the only one? Absolutely not. However depth obviously a great part of what makes you a team. As Vegas, you can have the best rb/qb combo in world but if that's all you've got it wont do against the better programs. I said Gorman didn't have enough depth to keep up with top ten nationally ranked teams but clearly they did to beat a very tough and determined Liberty. Both teams 100% healthy- as-is and it wouldn't have been as close as it was.
That said I loved the game, loved the chances Muraco took early in the game, they came to win, they came out hard and played a hell of a game. In comparison to Palo where Rost went into "damage control" mode early in 3rd quarter, Liberty didn't roll over like Rost did on play calling where he was content to keep the score respectable rather than give his boys a chance to win like Muraco did. I enjoyed watching the Patriots but they were beaten by the better team, no shame in that. Can't wait for future match ups against them.
Anybody else gonna be in Reno for the final?
Tuasdad, as usual, I love your comments. Always right on point. Gorman easily handled Granite Bay, although it wasn't a full game scrimmage. I talked to one of the Granite parents and he conceded his team was outmatched. Specifically, our D-line and O-Line abused theirs. Might be some footage on YouTube.
As for Liberty coming out strong, I totally expected it. Having watched an Island Warrior team that NEVER kicked the ball deep but chose to on-side kick it everytime. Loved the heart those boys played with, but I expected it. I heard Gorman folk were nervouse for two and a half qtrs. I tip my hat to their fans who post as well. Great way to support their team without tearing down anyone else.
As for Gorman keeping up with Top 10 teams, I believe. Especially considering all the teams that were upset this week. I'm hoping the Gaels realize how special their season can be and come out firing on all cylinders!
Tuasdad, I do agree with you that depth was the biggest factor and that Gorman was just the better team. I also agree that Starks could of done what Powell did but that again goes to depth of Gorman. Starks had a great game at safety and i think he had an int. An example of Gorman's depth is that they could have played Powell at safety and Starks at RB. My prediction or hopes of a td or field goal game was based on Liberty winning the turnover battle and playing a nearly perfect game. Take away the turnovers, especially the int when Liberty got the ball back down 27 to 35, then i think maybe Liberty stays within td in the loss. I really thought that Liberty could stay with Gorman with their best players going both ways, but i realized that this is not as easily done against a team like Gorman. I cant imagine how tired Liberty QB Nacua was in running the offense and then having to d up Gorman's biggest receiver in Tillman. The effects showed in the 3rd quarter as
Nacua was not as effective with the QB runs and options. But i also realize that Gorman was
without their most dominant player in Stanley. Again, depth showed as i almost forgot that Stanley
wasnt even playing and so the kid who filled in for Stanley more than held his own. I still believe that Liberty is right there with Gorman in terms of talent, speed, size and athleticsm. Not saying even but pretty close, at least as to the skill positions. I wont be making the championship game in Reno, but i gotta believe it will be televised, right?
Ray C and Tuasdad, I agree with most but the main area where gorman had big advantage was speed. Liberty is smashmouth but they could use more speed. Ray c I also agreed that I thought it had a chance to go right down to the end ( I was the only one who actually picke$ Liberty) I thought Stanleys absence would have made a bigger difference. I was wrong. Actually Starks had 2 ints gorman 3 total. Liberty had to play error free football. Weren't able to. Gorman had a lot to do with it though. At the end of the day gorman was just the better team. But Liberty proved they're right there.
Great comments!!!
All of your insights are informative and entertaining. It is hard to swallow some pride and bias' in ranking the final top 5 or 10 in the city. I was talking to a coach from the southwest area and he said Liberty is going to make a banner reading, "2011 Southern Nevada Public School Champions"
I am going to have to object to this idea. Everyone has laid out opinions and some stats that shows the improvement of Liberty since their loss to Arbor View in week 1.
Tuasdad commented: Nov. 24, 2011 "I'm not basing "too much" on that first game. Losing by 10 is one thing losing by 20 at home is a lot to overcome. And maybe your team has, i've said they are definitely improved, but how improved? That's where some of us don't agree."
The improvement of one team does not mean the other team did not improve. Could AV beat Palo now? Some say yes. But they lost 14-7, so Palo is better. Could Liberty beat AV now? Some say yes. But they lost 47-26, so AV is better.
Take a look at rankings unbiased:
Massey Computer Rankings:
1.Gorman- Schedule strength(1) Offense(1) Defense(1) Power(1)
2.Palo Verde- Schedule Strength(3) Offense(4) Defense(2)Power(2)
3.Arbor View- Schedule Strength(2) Offense(3) Defense(5) Power(3)
4.Truckee- Schedule Strength(11) Offense(5) Defense(3) Power(4)
5.Edward C. Reed- Schedule Strength(25) Offense(2) Defense(14) Power(5)
6.Liberty- Schedule Strength(17) Offense(6) Defense(17) Power(7)
7.Centennial
8.Lowry
9.Churchhill
10.Foothill
Max Preps Rankings: (ratings)
1. Gorman(63)
2. Palo Verde(43.7)
3. Arbor View(40.4)
4. Reed(38.4)
5. Liberty(34.6)
6. Centennial(29.4)
7. Foothill(24.5)
8. Cheyenne(22.3)
9. Cimarron(23.1)
10. Carson(22.3)
Arbor View=Rushing:3757, Passing:929
Liberty=Rushing:2538, Passing:984
Palo=Rushing:3119, Passing:917
MY TOP 5 Southern Nevada:
1. Gorman
2. Palo Verde
3. Arbor View
4. Liberty
5. Centennial
PrepFollower,
FYI, Liberty is NOT getting a banner that says "2011 Public School Champions". This is just the thing to stir the pot. Let's not post heresay stuff that you heard. Let's squash that bit of nonsense before it starts a wildfire.
Prepfollower, your MaxPreps rankings are not accurate.
MaxPreps has Centennial 7th.
Carson is ranked 12th, not 10th.
Perhaps you are only ranking the 4A schools, and not including the two 3A schools that affect your posted rankings...
http://www.maxpreps.com/rankings/footbal...
I see what your saying Prepfollower but i think everyone here that was at the Gorman Liberty game is basing their opinions on the common opponent which is Gorman.
Arbor View played Gorman the first time the score was 56-7 Gorman.
Stats AV had 156 yards rushing and 159 yards passing.
Gorman had 154 yards rushing and 310 yards passing.
Side note none of AV's RB's rushed over 60 yards in this game.
Scores by quarters
AV 0 0 7 0 =7
Gorman 14 14 21 7 =56
Now the second time these two teams met AV scored more points, but the stats were almost the same as the first game. This game none of AV's RB's rushed over 50 yards.
Total rushing yards for AV was 175 total passing yards was 17.
Gorman ran for 258 yards and threw for 161 yards.
Box scores
AV 7 0 7 6=20
Gorman 7 28 14 7=56
Now Palo Verde is up against Gorman.
None of Palo's RB's ran over 75 yards rushing.
Palo total rushing yards was 98 and total passing yards was 73.
Gorman ran for 290 yards and passed for 196 yards.
Palo Verde 0 0 0 7=7
Gorman 7 7 14 7=35
Now Liberty is up against Gorman
Liberty rushed for 248 yards, oh and Niko Kapeli rushed for 157 of those yards, and passed for 226 yards.
Gorman rushed for 442 yards and passed for 209 yards.
Liberty 14 6 7 7=34
Gorman 14 14 14 14=56
Now with all these stats presented to you against the common opponent how can you say that Palo or AV is better than Liberty. Alright you will say Stanley was not playing ok but to be honest i don't think he alone changes the game that dramatically and we can argue this fact all month long but the bottom line is we will never know how Stanley would have affected the game.
I'm jus saying who cares what the head coach for Liberty puts on his banner. Its his banner which will be hanging in Liberty's gym and if thinks that he is the public school champ for 2011 season guess what you can't do nothing about it. Because 342 Days from now Liberty will be waiting for their 2nd shot at Bishop Gorman over at Sam Boyd stadium and this time its for the STATE TITLE.....I'M JUS SAYING....LOL...
In regards to the above comment I don't know the Liberty coaches but from what I gather from others that program don't seem like the type that would make that type of banner. Any Liberty Fans hear anything about that?
Kioonyou: Of course I did not believe Liberty would make a banner for "Public Champs". This statement just made me think about them deserving a banner if they made one. Would be very ignorant if they did.
LakeTahoeGuy:
Yes, I was refering to the 4A rankings, here is the State rankings from Max Preps. This does not affect my point of ranking Liberty above Palo and AV.
(record-division-rating-strength)
1 Bishop Gorman (Las Vegas)15-1 8-0 63 24.8
2 Palo Verde (Las Vegas) 11-1 8-0 43.7 22.9
3 Arbor View (Las Vegas)9-3 7-1 40.4 27.7
4 Reed (Sparks)12-1 9-0 38.4 8.5
5 Liberty (Henderson)11-2 6-0 34.6 19.7
6 Truckee (CA)12-0 8-0 31.4 8.7
7 Centennial (Las Vegas)7-4 6-2 29.4 22.6
8 Foothill (Henderson)9-3 4-2 24.5 16
9 Cheyenne (North Las Vegas)6-4 5-3 24.3 325.9
10 Cimarron-Memorial (Las Vegas)6-4 4-4 23.1 15.9
Jussaying: you are correct in looking at common opponents. Not too many polls use this in ranking. See B.C.S.
Sending Gorman over to the Sunrise would give Palo and Arbor, even Centennial a chance to play in the Southern or State Championship game.
Once Liberty lost to Arbor View, we knew Liberty would not loose until they played Gorman. That is not a rip on Liberty, it was a complement.
I am jussaying 47-26.
Not LOL...because Gorman needs to play in a 5A league.