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Saturday, March 2, 2013 | 2:01 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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Gov. Brian Sandoval recently proposed a tuition tax-credit scholarship program so low-income students attending low-performing public schools can attend a public or private school of the parent’s choice. A recent column by Dr. Sonya Douglas Horsford called this a “noncomprehensive, nontransformational idea.”
The only thing “noncomprehensive” about Gov. Sandoval’s proposal is that it will be limited to a small but needy segment of the Silver State’s student population. As for “nontransformational,” Horsford couldn’t be further from the truth.
Today, nine out of 10 random-assignment studies on school-choice programs show statistically significant benefits for participating students. Opponents of choice scholarship programs cannot point to one single random-assignment study demonstrating that students are hurt when given scholarships to attend private schools.
Ironically, Horsford’s biggest concern is how to measure whether a scholarship program would succeed. She makes no mention of how we don’t measure the impact of the more than $4 billion annual spending on K-12 education in Nevada.
But Horsford need not worry. There is an easy and inexpensive solution to measuring the impact of school choice without mandating statewide standardized tests. The solution simply requires testing a random selection of students who applied for and won a choice scholarship (the treatment group) and those who applied but did not win a scholarship (the control group). Such studies have been conducted by researchers from Harvard, Princeton, Chicago and most recently by Patrick Wolf at the University of Arkansas.
The author is a research fellow with the Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice.
Humm
Hoursford is against everything that would improve schools
All he wants is more money to throw at the wall
Governor Sandoval proposes excellent ideas and actions for improving the state of education in Nevada. Previous Governors, except Gov. Kenny Quinn, were sorely lacking in this regard and the effects are very evident.
CarmineD
This letter is nonsense.
Mr. Gibbons simply has an agenda. I have seen him make comments on the LV Sun before and he is a one issue type of guy...in that he wants to see public education completely and utterly destroyed.
What is not mentioned is that he works for NPRI and continues to sledge hammer out anything and everything he can to achieve that end. He hates teachers down to his very soul. If you don't believe me, look at all of his history of comments to LV Sun articles.
He's all for home schooling, privatizing education, anything other than public education. Not only that, but he detests unions and anything that will pay a teacher a proper salary. It's an ultra-conservative agenda he wishes to pound out constantly and non-stop.
Buy hey, it's free speech. Go for it. But I just wanna point out that he's been called out before regarding his horse with blinders views. Nonsense.
"Mr. Gibbons has an agenda." Well, duh! Don't we all? I'm with Gibbons in trying to "destroy" the public school system which, over the past 5 decades, has proven to be a massive failure. Any business (other than a forced taxpayer supported one), and don't kid yourself, education is "BIG" business, would have declared bankruptcy long ago if its record was as putrid and its administrative costs so top-heavy. Parents & students need competition to correct the situation but, apparently, the left loves keeping as many students as ignorant as they can so they will check the "D" mark when voting. That's a Third-World" model we can do without!
Looks like Patrick found a new gig after getting canned by NPRI. Glad you got a job, Patrick. Too bad it isn't one that can actually help students in this state.
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
Patrick, please provide links to the studies.
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
I would not exactly call public education a massive failure. Poor parenting and distracting technologies have had a lot to do with underachievement in education. I along with many others passed through the public school system and have done very well.
Beyond excellent. We all need to get behind this "agenda" and demand EFFECTIVE K-12 and cost effective government spending.
Public K-12 in CC, roughly 50% graduate. Anyone think all those "graduates" can actually read and write well? And now the higher-ed profs are telling us public K-12 needs 50% extra funding for ELL. NO, not a dime. I grew up with many ELL students. They spoke a variety of languages including Finnish, German, Romanian and/or whatever languages and dialects various LEGAL immigrants spoke. The parents did NOT speak English well, frequently very broken English as they learned from their kids--as the kids learned the language in public K-12. The parents AND kids WANTED to assimilate into OUR CULTURES. And everyone understood, you didn't have to apply yourself in school, but if you did not, you did NOT get extra attention nor remedial classes.
Parents already have many choices.
Public school districts across our country, and here in Nevada, MUST take any child who walks through their doors (the exception is a child expelled from the school and district-which is a legal process).
Public schools cannot, by law, deny enrollment to a child who is a behavioral problem, a low performing child, a low IQ child, or a Special Education child, unlike many "private," choice, or charter schools. You are comparing apples and oranges, Patrick Gibbons.
Here in Nevada, CCSD, and other school districts like it, offer a variety of "choices" for parents to choose from. We all know that there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" delivery of education. Some of the public school options are: online education, alternative education, behavioral schools, Specific Needs Special Education Schools, magnet schools, technical academies, community schools, partnership schools, and HeadStart. Each choice carries with it a commitment to work the program, provide for materials, involve active parent/caregiver participation, and possibly transportation.
Parents need to thoughtfully weigh their options when it comes to providing the best education possible for their child. Although children are "resillient," after enough moves or changes from educational facilities and providers, a child will become traumatized, and begin to digress, losing any gains he or she has made. It is important to make a choice that one knows that they can commit for the long haul.
Let's be FAIR: It would serve those who wish to utilize another venue of educational delivery, funds that their child would have in a regular public school, available as a voucher towards another type of school outside the public school setting. Rarely will that money be enough, and such parents or caregivers will most likely be paying a great deal MORE beyond that voucher, and also be actively participating more. They need to consider that for the long haul.
A commonsense approach is best taken here. There is no need to scrap public schools, just facilitate those who rather select and commit to another educational facility outside public schools. The hostilities are totally unwarranted, as either choice must serve a student properly and well. It is about the individual student needs after all.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
The Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice is an Indiana-based nonprofit devoted to the privatization of schools through the promotion of an educational voucher system. It was founded by economists Milton Friedman and Rose Friedman in 1996. Milton Friedman is regarded as one of the most influential proponents of neo-liberal market economics.
According to the organizations website, the foundation's mission is "amplifying the national call for true education reform through school choice." The organization provides research and marketing services to local and national organizations with similar missions to promote support for the educational voucher system among legislators and the public.
It has ties to the American Legislative Exchange Council.
The Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice has worked with the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), along with the Alliance for School Choice to develop model legislation to be introduced into state legislatures across the country. The organization was one of around 60 organizations represented at the exhibition hall at the ALEC annual meeting in 2011.
About ALEC
ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve "model" bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy's ALECexposed.org, and check out breaking news on our PRWatch.org site.
The organizations Mr. Gibbons is associated with are all financially motivated with a strong dose of teacher hatred and very little to offer middle class and poor Americans. It is sad they exist.
Patrick, welcome back, glad you have a job, just wish it was with people who were true American's rather than corporatists.
Future, maybe Patrick has a voucher for your reading comprehension. You said:
"Humm
Hoursford is against everything that would improve schools
All he wants is more money to throw at the wall"
I say:
Dr. Sonya Douglas Horsford is likely a she. If those types of details are hard for you, imagine the trouble you may be having with the overall content.
"The organizations Mr. Gibbons is associated with are all financially motivated with a strong dose of teacher hatred and very little to offer middle class and poor Americans."
And isn't it funny that Mr. Gibbons' former employer, the Nevada "Policy" "Research" Institute, is reportedly having an event this month with an ALEC official?
https://twitter.com/SteveSebelius/status...
These types of incestuous connections between these lobbying groups is one of several reasons we need stronger campaign reform.
MooTheCow, you're too cute. My students consistently scored high on tests, better than other classes in the same grade level. Yes, I have a bad attitude when I deal with idiots who have no clue what teaching entails, morons were are bound and determined destroy education with their ridiculous ideas.
"Today, nine out of 10 random-assignment studies on school-choice programs show statistically significant benefits for participating students. Opponents of choice scholarship programs cannot point to one single random-assignment study demonstrating that students are hurt when given scholarships to attend private schools."
"....that students are hurt when given scholarships to attend private schools..." Where in heaven's name did you get that idea? Of course there is no harm involved with those children. That is not the point. Their parents are presumably concerned about their education and the failures of public schools, so they choose to send their children to private schools. These are the same children who, in public schools will succeed regardless, because of familial support.
Those who will be hurt are the children remaining in public schools who will have to share limited funds with those who choose to go to private schools.
This type of reform - funding private education is not reform. It is palliative and it will NOT solve the problems in education. It is discriminatory, divisive, and patronizing.
The problems in education can only be reformed with a paradigm shift in leadership, curriculum focus and delivery, and a social/cultural awakening on the vital role of families/communities in child development and learning.
Of course, nobody in the powers-that-be exclusive club will initiate these. They make public policies that benefit them and they do not have to be accountable for them.
The advent of accountability brought about by the NCLB has just now made the public aware of the failures of their policies. Guess to whom they are shifting the blame. And, the public took it hook, line, and sinker. For, what can the peons do against a well-oiled machine who controls everything?
Now the shills are continuing their campaign ever so strong. Give me a break. There are still people out there who are not as ignorant as you think they are. The pendulum will swing the other side one day, and you will face your comeuppance.
It's disconcerting, to say the least, when results of a study are cherry-picked to support a certain position.
The study found that there was ""no conclusive evidence that the OSP affected student achievement" (OSP was the name of the scholarship program). Student achievement was measured by reading and math assessments given to both student groups. Interesting, huh?
It's wonderful that 12% more students graduated from a private school versus a public school. But the really, REALLY important question is WHY did 12% more graduate from a private school?
I don't think that we are so naive to believe that simply attending a private school, all other things being equal, make a student more likely to graduate. Was class size a factor? Was per-pupil spending comparable? Was the fact that private schools are not required to adhere to the same federal and state requirements that public schools are bound to observe?
And what about the 70% that graduated from a public school? Could it be that those parents who were involved enough in their child's education to apply for the scholarship made a difference in their child's public school success?
It's easy to jump to conclusions, but if we're looking for real solutions we need to look deeper.
Public K-12 is broken. Money won't fix it. Historically, parents are NOT routinely involved in student activities and school, above a very minimal level. Now you want to blame parents not teaching their todlers to read as the cause of K-12 failure? There always has been and always will be many parents who cannot participate in K-12 activities. And, many who cannot participate in their children's activities. Ever hear of things like earning a living? Broken homes? Single parents? Financial crisis? Unemployment?
Nancy,
Thanks for bringing up a valid concern however, there is no evidence that students "left behind" in public schools are hurt. Quite the contrary the evidence suggests that their education quality stays the same or improves.
David Figlio from Northwestern University found that schools with a high population of low income students (which faced greater threat of low-income kids leaving for private schools) saw statistically significant improvement in education quality. http://educationnext.org/does-competitio...
Another article on the subject (Jay Greene is now a professor at Arkansas) http://educationnext.org/competition-pas...
Star, Nevada public schools DO NOT have to take ever child. They only have to take the children zoned to that school. Being told you must go to X school and no other is the exact opposite of choice.
By Jove Roberta, you got it!
Earning a living, broken homes, single parenthood, and many other social ills.
Do you think a child whose Dad was hauled to jail the night before for abusing his Mom would be interested in listening to what the teacher would say the following day? Do you think a 12-year old who had been sexually abused the night before would be interested in a parallelogram? These are the home situations from where many of the students come. Repeated abuse desensitizes a child and makes him inured to what he would consider irrelevant to how he is feeling and thinking. How many lessons do you think are put aside in any given day to handle disruptive students?
Family IS the basic unit of society. Unless that unit is kept strong, we have no hope in reforming anything, least of all education.
Honor no longer exists in both private and public undertakings. Greed for money and power drives public policies and business decisions.
K-12 education IS NOT what is broken. Its failure is the collateral damage of failed leadership and misdirected public apathy. And yes, money is NOT going to fix it.
There he goes. I knew it would only be a matter of time before he responded to comments regarding his own letter.
Mr. Gibbons, in refuting the truth from commenters who are actually teachers, uses right wing talking point internet sites to pound out his agenda.
The simple fact of the matter is that even though Mr. Gibbons has his right to free speech, he simply doesn't have his right to make up the facts.
All he is doing is slamming an agenda out there. Don't believe me? Look at every single one of his history of comments. It ALWAYS is against any and all types of public educations. He hates teachers. He hates unions. He hates students who he considers on the public dole. The only students he likes are the ones that go to schools that are privatized. It fits in with his ultra-conservative agenda that he continually sledge hammers out there on the LV Sun as well as other sites. He fits in perfect with the Tea/Republican Party Paul Ryan Ayn Rand mold.
Just want to point out the obvious. He's not stating convictions he believes. He's stating stuff he's PAID to believe. The State of Nevada has undergone a period where we have faced just about 16 years or so of ultra-conservative Governors who take care of big business...all at the expense of education. The education K-12 system in the entire State has been GUTTED.
And a guy like Mr. Gibbons just furthers that.
Ignore his posts. He is only seeking an agenda. Nothing more. Nothing less. An ultra-conservative agenda that leads nowhere. Except to an ultra-conservative Tea/Republican Party utopie that only benefits the rich...and says to hell with everyone else. Incarcerate, not educate. That's Mr. Gibbons' motto.
The brokenness rosie describes in her littany is the slap and flow from the wake of our culture. It rises and falls like the moon. What impact the K-12 systems have is a stabilizing effect for those washing up onshore.
No reasonable discussion of school improvement dips to dabbling in who blames whom for failing. Our course is not one for the finger-waggers; our better path resides in the heart of the conscientious upgraders, the connectors and developers with the learners in mind, and the pieces of tomorrow embedded with the skills they need to incorporate and launch their lives in a style to which they will grow accustomed - their own!
Good teachers personalize and embed paths with learning experiences so that things like..." There always has(sic) been and always will be many parents who cannot participate in K-12 activities. And, many who cannot participate in their children's activities... " never ever have to fall off the end of anybody's keyboard, and nobody else ever has to shudder at things like this or "Is the children learning?" in a reasonable discussion of education.
How 'bout this one..."Historically, parents are NOT routinely involved in student activities and school, above a very minimal level."
Let's name some minimals here: speaking words, developing skills, mastering the languages by encoding and decoding in various forms - reading, writing, numbers, social intercourse, valuing expression and communication, interpreting oddities, reconciling differences, including new concepts in the arms of existing knowledge, building self-confidence appropriate to self-development, empowering access to information, services and reliable cohorts.
Maybe parents really, as rosie pontificates, "are NOT routinely involved..." It wasn't that way in my America. Most of the kids I knew as a kid had parents and love. Most of the kids I taught also had homes. But then for a few years the kids I taught were the discards, the rejects.
They got drunk and stoned, pregnant and with child, landed in jail, prison, juvie, homeless and no parent in sight or memory really. And these losers taught me more than I taught them.
They learned that they could learn. They felt their powers. They became a more perfect union, and they developed strength and a respect for their ability to become and grow and learn to see others as sources of strength and to find comfort in progress they had never known.
Our school was so poor, we scrounged for written stuff, begged for computers and settled in Writing class on writing every day.
And lo and behold along came the Nevada State Writing Proficiency Exam. I cried when the principal called me in to lay the results on me. "Joe, we had 100% pass rate. This kind of performance is unheard of in GOOD schools where kids have parents and beds, dinner and breakfast and love...and a shower and a toothbrush!"
Gibbons:
Yes, public schools HAVE to take EVERY child who comes to the door. No one is refused. Yes, they take EVERYONE zoned to that school, regardless of their abilities, socio-economic status, nationality, immigration status, etc. Unlike private schools who can refuse "unqualified" children.
CCSD offers school choice for selected schools based on availability. Parents must apply. Zoning is an economic and logical decision to limit additional expense in busing children all over the valley.
Zone variances are offered for parents who can prove the need to attend a preferred school. The parents have to provide their own transportation. Not too many avail of this option.
Must you comment on education where you have only very limited experience? A research fellow? Try advanced research. It might broaden your perspective a bit.
From his bio, Patrick has rather limited life experience in the realm of teaching.
His college education did not prepare him for his first teaching position so when the district where he worked a semester as a first semester teacher realized their mistake in hiring and assigning him to regular student populations, Patrick was moved OUT of the History classroom into Special Ed for a couple of months before being let go early in the Spring after a dismal experience of less than one year of essentially falling on his face in a job where he was unprepared both technically according to his own admission and motivationally as he makes abundantly clear with his agenda.
Yet as Doctor Agustin points out rather politely here, Patrick certainly does comment effusively on topics he has read about mostly.
Nancy if you are referring to CCSD's open enrollment program there are a few problems
1) the sign up time is not heavily advertised
2) the sign up time is very short
3) you cannot change your mind once you enroll
4) your choice is kinda like Henry Ford offering a Model T in any color so long as its black (you get pretty much the same offerings in every school)
Next, zoning is not logical unless you prefer keeping religious or racial minorities or low income people out of your school. That is how zoning started after all... and no surprise we have schools with far more low income and minority students than other schools.
Colin,
If i'm paid to believe these things what does that say about teacher union bosses, politicians who accept union donations and the very teachers themselves. Does that mean they're all paid to believe in public schools no matter how good or bad they educate students?
;)
I recommend focusing on facts, not speculation about motives as it can be used against you just as easily.
@Patrick. The question is very simple. Will a school that is taking vouchers using public money be REQUIRED to accept and KEEP all students regardless of discipline history, disability, or lack of English proficiency? If not, what happens to those students?
The open enrollment option exists for parents. If a parent is truely interested, the information is available. Zoning started as a means of controlling costs involved with transporting students all over the valley. It makes sense to have students attend schools that are in their neighborhoods. It also makes sense to have children attend school with the children they are friends with a play with daily. Schools were built to serve certain areas, and not to contain economic or ethnic groups.
Education Next is published by the Hoover Institute. This is the mission statement of the Hoover Institute.
Mission Statement
Now more than five decades old, Herbert Hoover's 1959 statement to the Board of Trustees of Stanford University on the purpose and scope of the Hoover Institution continues to guide and define its mission in the twenty-first century:
"This Institution supports the Constitution of the United States, its Bill of Rights and its method of representative government. Both our social and economic systems are based on private enterprise from which springs initiative and ingenuity.... Ours is a system where the Federal Government should undertake no governmental, social or economic action, except where local government, or the people, cannot undertake it for themselves.... The overall mission of this Institution is, from its records, to recall the voice of experience against the making of war, and by the study of these records and their publication, to recall man's endeavors to make and preserve peace, and to sustain for America the safeguards of the American way of life. This Institution is not, and must not be, a mere library. But with these purposes as its goal, the Institution itself must constantly and dynamically point the road to peace, to personal freedom, and to the safeguards of the American system."
The principles of individual, economic, and political freedom; private enterprise; and representative government were fundamental to the vision of the Institution's founder. By collecting knowledge, generating ideas, and disseminating both, the Institution seeks to secure and safeguard peace, improve the human condition, and limit government intrusion into the lives of individuals.
This is a link to the web page.
http://www.hoover.org/about/mission-stat...
"If i'm paid to believe these things what does that say about teacher union bosses, politicians who accept union donations and the very teachers themselves. Does that mean they're all paid to believe in public schools no matter how good or bad they educate students?
;)" -Patrick R Gibbons
If anyone ever had doubts about the foundation from which Mr Gibbons works, this example of how his self-consuming thought processes flow might be a helpful map.
Corollaries from PRG:
Beliefs are for sale.
Integrity has no place in cultural development.
Money is why teachers teach.
Having children in the Clark County School District, I was most certainly informed about open enrollment.
I'm also aware that most parents don't avail themselves of open enrollment, either because they are perfectly happy with the school their child attends or they are unable to get their child to the zone variance school.
As to your union statement, you should know better than that. The role of a union is to protect teachers from unfair practices and negotiate contracts.
Since you are back, I'd like you to answer the question that I've asked you numerous times about vouchers, a question you've never answered. What school in this city will take a voucher as payment in full for tuition?
So there's only so much money, but rich kids can take the pile of tax money for their education for them to good schools along with a wad from dad and mom, but the poor kids get: the old school with all the loser kids, the misfits, the foreigners, all the special ed expense, etc
And this schism is being sold as an improvement.
Well, it clearly IS.
Now, see, the good kids will get the individualized attention they need. They won't have all those discipline problems. Those will reside with the poor kids at the public school, see? This truly IZZ better, right?, ya know - better for the GOOD kids, right?
And anyone with even a casual notion of human resource depletion will know how devastating this division can be. And that's why Patrick and ilk are apparently so strongly in favor of demeaning those whom he wishes later to enslave for his own personal use, right?
Society as a whole is what has made the CCSD K-12 fail, Electronic gadgets,music genre, pants on the ground, no respect for elders,no help with home work, broken families, etc... . You can pour all the money you want to into the failed system it won't fix it. Parents of the students have to fix it by getting off thier lazy butts and participating in thier childs education. Teachers would be much more sucsessful if the parents would reinforce the school system rules and quit making excuses for thier unruly smart@#$ kids. Making scholorships for underprivileged kids to attend better schools will do nothing if the kid does not have parents who are involved in his education in the first place.
many schools in the south have been resegregated with the aid of local "private academies" (e g Yazoo City). In Utah the polygamist have used private and home schooling to maintain control. We should take away the non-profit status of these private schools and make them pay taxes.
Absolutely nothing new coming out of the mouth of my little buddy Gibby!
He would literally destroy the public educational system in Nevada if he had the power to do so....
Colin hit the name on the head with his post concerning Gibby. Yes, Gibby hates unions and believes that teachers are over paid & believes that we spent way too much on education....
What Gibby won't tell you is that Gibby tried teaching at one point in time & lasted less than a year. He was given his walking papers......
Those of us who have posted on this board for any period of time are well aware of what makes Gibby tick and its not pretty....
"
STOP the BULLY POSTERS.
That's precious coming from you, Roslenda.
And yet not a single word from Mr. Gibbons, Roberta, Fink, et. al, about the district approving a quarter million dollars to Ken Turner - including 50,000 dollars for "relocation expenses" from his home to his home....
Their agenda is to destroy teachers, at any cost, and funnel the money into the pockets of their masters. So, naturally, it makes sense that when their masters get paid, they are happy and remain silent. But let even the thought of teachers or students benefiting from one single dollar...Outrage and vitriol. They hate teachers, they hate students, they hate public education, simple as that
Wait till someone opens the "White Aryan Academy for Racial Purity" Or the "Islamic Jihad school for the defeat of the infidel Crusaders" or the "La Raza Escuela for the Establishment of Aztlan" and so one...you want taxpayer subsidies for stuff like that? How about the: "Black Panther Huey Newton Academy" ?
I hope someone investigates the Gibbons group, he is always up no good and I wish the media would not pay attention to him.
Parents have choice. It is up to them to be involved enough to read the literature the school district sends to them and makes available online, on PBS, and in the news media. For the good and well being of the student, there are windows of time for parents to seek zone variances for their children to attend another school. Children must maintain proper behaviors and be also benefitting academically and socially during that variance as well.
While my children were growing up in California, they had attended private school until there was a time when that was no longer be viable. Then, I, as their parent, did my research, and obtained a zone variance for one child (high school aged, while the younger still in elementary). For years, I drove her to and from school, or carpooled.
The point is, Patrick, you are making a big deal out of nothing. It is about parents being responsible about their children, and seeing to it, that their children grow up to be responsible, productive citizens. Good Heavens!
Here in the United States of America, you have that opportunity to make of life what you will.
Administrators in public schools should NOT be making over $150,000 (with documented job related degrees and experience). This is a PUBLIC service job, not private industry. If there are any changes in public education, that is where they need to start!
Blessings and Peace,
Star
Enter another category of parental involvement that can be negative to the students progress...the over demanding parent focused on grades as the only proof of success.
They hover, berate, demean, demand and punish, with the result being a traumatized student so afraid of failing that they cannot succeed to their ability.
Of course, there are degrees to each of those parental behaviors, but they have an opposite effect for students.
It isn't only the uninvolved parent who can derail a students education. It isn't only in public schools. Students can freeze from the fear of failure instilled by an "involved" parent no matter what kind of school they go to.
It can happen in any school environment because it is about the home environment.
Family values mean little if the family relationships are not loving, nurturing, patient, respectful, tolerant and well balanced. That is not to say that discipline and expectations cannot be established, only in how they are implemented and maintained. This effects educational outcomes, as well as character development.
Perhaps, we should have some serious parenting education, with parents and students together, as a way of transitioning to a more beneficial and effective educational and societal advancement and maturity.
I think blaming teachers and the educational system is a convenient excuse and very narrow viewpoint.
I want schools of all types to produce thinkers, not calculators and duplicating machine students.
I have never forgotten the teachers who engaged me in thinking through my concepts and ideas. They taught me to be able to see the weaknesses and strengths of my thought and never gave me a sense of failing in either. Parents need to do the same thing. This builds self-esteem and frees the mind to learn.
I encourage parents to go beyond their own educational level and learn more through free Internet courses so they too can engage their kids.
How much do parents really care about their kids in the US? Sometimes, I think it is a matter of in word only. It seems competition and success are the main focus. These should be secondary to the close, loving, nurturing family relationships, which some other countries with high achievement place as a priority. We need a societal adjustment in the US, but it will take a long while to overcome the deficiency that exists at present.
peacelily's timetable is realistic. Our Parenting Quotient (PQ) is significantly below that of the Canada Goose. They mate for life, however boring that may seem to Las Vegans.
Parenting classes, however, hahaha great idea but it's too much like a bridge too far or a bra too tight.
It's a bad fit. Those who need it won't go; those who don't need it just don't need it and won't go there a tiny bit.
The societal adjustment we need is more of an internal dynamic, a personal alarm when things aren't quite right that allows us to recalibrate the strategies to align with priorities to refocus on the good stuff and shuffle most of the minutia to the back-burners where they belong.
Likely we won't make it around the impasses we have created for ourselves this time. I predict some serious upheaval, revolution and chaos before we get back to basics - taking care of the business of children and tomorrow.
Probably, peacelily's dream will arrive in 3 or 4 thousand years when we come to our senses and realize some value in investing in the capacity of humanity.
As the principal obscurantist here, Mr Gibbons is playing to the weakness of the deteriorating social fabric in this valley in order to continue the dumbing down, the isolation and the eventual disenfranchisement of the masses.
His opposition to the spread of knowledge seems to know no bounds.
His disdain for decency borders on cannibalism or planned obsolescence. Selling the children out is tantamount to placing early expiration dates on their belly buttons.
Joe, I try to stay away from more exact timetables.
Anyone believing in reincarnation may be able to continue to effect change and experience the results.
In the meantime, I continue to dream, or seek vision beyond the end of my nose. ;-)
Remember that sometimes something good is not begun on a voluntary basis, no matter how old one is.
Joe,
"Those who need it won't go; those who don't need it just don't need it and won't go there a tiny bit."
Those who don't need it, which I believe are not the majority, have something to offer by their example and experience. They become different from the learners. They are contributors. All they need is that spirit of giving rather than retiring as knowing it all, and therefore not wanting to waste their time.
Personally, I think everyone has something to give and receive in the parenting arena.
If retiring as a know-it-all is iron filings, then I am a magnet!
Having pumped out a rigorous life of some 50 years of piling up the labors, I feel the time is sneaking up on even MEE to kick back and do more homebody stuff and less other people's home stuff which is my latest thrill.
That dang spirit of giving which you my sweet peacelily celebrate may seem innocuously positive, but oh! the truth of its claws and fangs! Even in my roles as an energy auditor and green home flipping performance contractor, that very same spirit drives me to give my most illuminating efforts, discover opportunity and relate findings and truly become engaged in a flow of sharing, contributing and cooperating.
It's more addictive than nicotine, but it smells better and lasts longer, satisfies harder but is really simple to get...this giving spirit
Joe,
Don't think I am implying you are a know-it-all, and I do recognize your giving spirit. Keep it up, sir.
We may not experience it at all times, but we can try to effect an evolution toward a more giving, peaceful, and unified society.
For Nancy Agustin and those of us who remember having a great education, it is true, "The pendulum will swing the other side one day, and you will face your comeuppance."
Ah, the "pendulum". Any seasoned educator will fondly recall the time when professional teachers were respected, and were given the latitude to offer thematic units, and use various modes of delivery, allowing students to explore and experience learning while in school, and having that experience reach into their homes. Children understood how connected everything is, and craved learning much more, often researching at levels that were beyond the scope of their current grade level. Learning at school was so engaging, that students were waiting for the gates to open in the morning, so they could "get there first" and sneak previews of what was in store for them in class that day.
The establishment hasn't completely stamped out respect for teachers or love of learning. There will always be a child, willing to squeeze past security, arriving in a fun classroom that they feel they own forever, to siphon off some inspiration, some book, some little idea, to spur them on in their learning adventures. They know that they are always welcome in your or my room, or to catch you or me on the fly.
As that "pendulum" swings, it will demolish all the barriers that the world has put between a student and their education. It will thrash assunder the isolation a child feels about receiving and growing an education within themselves. The seed fell into a crack in the asphalt and sprouted, its growth goes unhindered.
Not surprisingly, at one time, teachers were told to stop using the things they knew worked. Now, teachers are being asked to RETURN to using those things. YES, the pendulum has begun to swing back, thankfully. The administrative "experts" have nearly killed education and the love of learning, and are now realizing the error of their ways. Now we can begin the task of strengthening what remains with the "tried and true". Sweet pendulum.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
What struck me as interesting is that both Dr. Horsford and Mr. Gibbons commented on a plan whose details have not been disclosed. Talk about a straw man.
While the idea of alternative school opportunities is appealing, those opportunities are not currently available to any great degree in Nevada and, regardless of legislation or availability of tax credits, are not likely to become available. Private and charter schools exist to serve a particular clientele....religious, cultural, scientific, occupational, etc., while public education serves the entire population of eligible children. In the US that includes the outstanding through the mediocre to the failures. A private school or charter school is unlikely to alter or reduce its standards so as to recruit from that general population as to do so would be to compromise its stated goals, although it might cherry pick applicants so as to strengthen its program.
Without seeing much detail but comparing this ethereal "plan" to other similar ideas it appears that this is simply another sop to the forces who wish to diminish public education in the US. That it is defended by Patrick Gibbons, a noted failure, speaks loudly.
Parents with resources have always GAMED the system. Either they send their kids to private schools, or they move to the more expensive neighborhoods, that for some reason, have better schools. This leaves those without resources at the lesser schools, which causing some parents not to care, which makes the school even less effective.
Mr. Gibbons is advocating a method that might help level the situation for those parents without resources. Why would people be against helping those parents without resources? Do they have a vested interest in the unequal treatment within the educational system? Why would we continue to spend money on lesser schools without any positive results?
If we can't move the kids, then let's move the teachers. Transfers can only be to a less performing school. Every five years of service requires a transfer to a less performing school.
Maybe that might help.
Collins etal: I'm not trying to figure out how to fix CCSD--that's their job. I simply refuse the hype of more money, more money, more money. They can't figure it out? Teach the basics--like we did for generations with great success.
The options to take vouchers elsewhere is to allow students a CHANCE while CCSD drowns in it's own fluids. Public K-12 has stolen enough from generations of students who now do NOT have a quality HS diploma nor proficiency in the basics. Let's allow kids a chance.
@Roberta.....vouchers for what? To be used where? Gorman, Faith Lutheran? Some restricted religious academy which teaches the Bible or the Koran of the Teachings of L.Ron Hubbard? Vouchers are a feel-good marketing scam on the part of conservatives who dislike anything public but cannot come up with alternatives which work. Vouchers are just another way to diminish public education. You have previously stated that public education is "broken" that it "can't be fixed".....you are so pathetically ignorant of what goes on in public schools. Perhaps you should volunteer one of your many skills....help out with business classes, volunteer as a mentor, teach remedial math or english.....or start your own school with the other high-and like-minded conservatives who regularly comment much but contribute little.
When our commenter ShannonK repeatedly asks the illustrious Patrick Gibbons for just ONE school where the holy voucher will allow a child admittance, apparently the unanswered question lingers still.
In other words (if no words is other words and also a complete answer!)the author of this pro-voucher article seems reluctant, even perhaps powerless, to provide our ShannonK a simple answer about precisely whither a parent might go to actually access this here lauded luxury limousine to a learned proletariat - the holy voucher.
Supply and demand. Provide the demand and the supply will appear.
@Roslenda. I ask the same question. Will the private schools that accept public vouchers be required to accept ALL students regardless of special needs, ELL, discipline problems, and immigration status? Will they be required to keep those students under the same guidelines that CCSD must follow? You do realize that there are less than 40 private and charter schools in Clark County.
And how do you make results. What is so supreme plan it will provide schools to pass their tests with national levels. Nevada should not be the last in line. Going season after season in Nevada recession. I've asked many questions, with truth.
School games are for children, not adults to fool around with nation.
POOF!...??? Like that, right?? lol
Then Roslenda, why don't you and Patrick team up and run for the Super slot at CCSD?
I hear they're looking for folks who actually DO know how to provide instant answers to massive and complex problems eating our children like grasshoppers ravage crops.
Work your magic in places where the ripples from your wand can build lives and strengths within humankind and droids alike!