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Tuesday, Feb. 26, 2013 | 2:01 a.m.
Another view?
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America faces a triple threat global environment with which we are ill-equipped to deal. Threats range from old school, 20th-century weapons of mass destruction and failed state issues to 21st-century global terrorism, bad actors who don’t wear identity uniforms, and the insidious nature of cyberwarfare that steals our best secrets and could shut down our economy on command.
Too many elected officials — whether they are local, state or national in scope — can be collectively categorized as deadwood. Their genesis is old school, low tech and out of step with reality. In other words, they lack the skills 21st-century elected officials find necessary to successfully lead.
It’s not all their fault. They are a product of a society where money rules and therefore drives our best and brightest minds to Wall Street, not Main Street. The political arena is left with glib, well-meaning folks from whom we must choose as leaders. Now into our second decade of this century, they continue to spend enormous energy on repetitive local issues such as how to slice up the same trash pickup and business tax pies, thereby making themselves more appealing to voters, while at the national level our limited resources are deployed for months, asking the same stale, irrelevant questions such as, “Benghazi: What did the president know and when did he know it?” Operating with an 18th-century, slow-moving, deliberative government in the face of current threats requires that we either elect people much better able to think on their feet or adapt the current system so that it moves faster to counter the real threats to our way of life. Hope springs eternal.
Richard Rychtarik, Las Vegas
"Too many elected officials -- whether they are local, state or national in scope -- can be collectively categorized as deadwood. Their genesis is old school, low tech and out of step with reality. In other words, they lack the skills 21st-century elected officials find necessary to successfully lead." from Richard
Richard,
Quite a generalization. You state "elected officials" are "deadwood" because "they lack the skills 21st-century elected officials find necessary to successfully lead". You're concluding "elected officials" are "deadwood" based on what "elected officials" find necessary as skills to have in the 21st century. Are you premising that elected officials, based on their own skill set assessment, are concluding they themselves are indeed deadwood? Also, what are the skills 21st-century elected officials find necessary to successfully lead?
Richard said "Too many elected officials -- whether they are local, state or national in scope -- can be collectively categorized as deadwood.....asking the same stale, irrelevant questions such as, "Benghazi: What did the president know and when did he know it?"
---
Richard stop apolizing for Obama
Deadwood is deadwood
Look at how Obama handled the sequester
Obama would have you believe there is not enough waste, fraud and abuse to cover limiting growth 2%
Obama would have you believe that a hiring freeze would not cover limiting growth 2%
Obama would have you believe that restricting travel would not cover limiting growth 2%
Krugman says "America doesn't face a deficit crisis, nor will it face such a crisis anytime....So here we go. The good news is that compared with our past two self-inflicted crises, the sequester is relatively small potatoes.." (2-25-2013)
---
Even Krugman admits that the sequester has zero impact -- the President is playing small ball once again.
--
I will bite Richard - what did Obama do while Benghazi burned?
Future: "I will bite Richard - what did Obama do while Benghazi burned". Answer: WHO CARES?
Benghazi was the defining moment of the Obama first term presidency. There are numerous questions and facts that are unanswered and unaccounted for regarding the actions and lack thereof in Beghazi. Why? Our Commander-in-Chief was conspicously AWOL on 9-11 and 4 Americans are dead as a result and their murderers, contrary to the President's words, are still free and unscathed.
Sometimes old school is the best school! And traits like experience, integrity and leadership are the same for all ages.
CarmineD
CarmineD
Mostly off topic as usual.
"traits like experience, integrity and leadership are the same for all ages."
Not so. Some people have 20 years of experience and some have 1 year's experience 20 times.
Establishment of jihadist regimes under the Arab Spring program (done in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt; still to go in Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan), and with help of the existing jihadist regimes in Turkey, Sudan, and Iran to proceed to the destruction of Israel and the associated mass murder of all Jews there under a close supervision provided by Obama's far-left gallery of rogues Kerry, Brennan, and Hagel. The Benghazi murder cover-up interrupted temporarily the transfer of arms to the Syrian jihadists; but it will continue after that interruption; Egyptian jihadists received 20 fighter jets and 200 tanks as Obama's personal gift. This work will then inevitably earn Obama his second Nobel Piece Prize (his time for a real accomplishment -- not like the first one given only on the basis of Hope & Change).
Jim:
I have to disagree with you. The murder of 4 Americans, at the hands of terrorists who after 5 months have still not been brought to justice [as the President said they would] is not off topic at the least let alone the most. It is and will be the topic of President Obama's first term. You, and others who share your ill-thought out beliefs, just don't know and realize it yet. I'll tell you who will make it so, or at least who I think will: Bob Woodward. Let's see if I'm right on both accounts, okay?
CarmineD
Our 21st century president went to vegas the day after Benghazi. Can't get any more 'current' then that.
Deadwood!
Here something to ponder
Obama raised payroll taxes on all middle-class workers 2% last January and gas for your car is now taking 8% of your pay
Yet Obama told us to suck it up and pay the taxes
Well Obama can suck up the 2% sequester by stopping fly all over the country to tell us the sky is falling
Richard Rychtarik
What you are witnessing is the age old battle between those seeking peace and shared prosperity and the enemies of peace and shared prosperity.
The republicans are using Benghazi as a distraction from their real plans of destroying the American middle class and restoring the "Gilded Age".
It is a distraction like guns, religion, abortion and gay marriage, just to name a few.
Times might have changed. The players have change. Conditions have changed.
Man has not.
The real enemy is greed and the lust for power by a select few.
It was they who fought to stop the enforcement of the Sherman Anti-trust laws. That is why you have Wal-Mart gobbling up small businesses that created a large upper middle class in our country. They are now gone.
They pushed for the elimination of Glass-Steagall, that put a wall between financial investment and consumer banking. This led to the Savings and Loans bubble in the 1980's. The dot com bubble of 1990's. The housing bubble of the 2000's. And now, the commodities bubbles we are in now.
They have bought a Supreme court that has the audacity to claim corporations (property) are people and money is speech. How ironic. We had a conservative court rule in the 1850's that people were property (Dredd Scott), which led to the civil war.
They got income tax rates lowered, which allowed the few in power to take more than their fair share of the wealth created by the many. They then used lower inheritance tax laws to shelter their money for their posterity.
They use our government to take property from the common man and give it to them, under the guise of imminent domain.
They have the common man pay more in sales and property taxes, to build them new sports arenas and give them tax abatements. Thus, increasing their wealth which is furthered sheltered by the new tax code.
No, what you are seeing is history repeating itself.
The Grand Old Posers are stuck in the horse and buggy era while the nation prefers to drive a hybrid vehicle that gets 50 miles to the gallon.
The good news is that republicans are mostly old fogies who are just waiting for the grim reaper to give them directions to hell.
The "there's still unanswered questions" bit about Benghazi is subterfuge and a stalling tactic, nothing more.
This was on display for all to see while John Kerry was flown through confirmation hearings to head the State Department, yet Congressional Republicans blocked the appointment of the Secretary of Defense with more "unanswered questions" about Benghazi.
What happened in Benghazi was and is the wheelhouse of the State Department, not the Department of Defense. Carmine's "questions" should have been asked when Kerry was up for nomination, or in the numerous public and private Congressional committees that have met on the matter. It seems Carmine's more upset at the inept actions of Congressional republicans than any, actual, unanswered questions.
No more is this apparent than in Carmine's follow-up comment, where he says "terrorists... have still not been brought to justice." Perhaps he missed reports of two men, one arrested, one killed, back in October?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-5753...
Or maybe he missed reports of four Libyans arrested?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872...
Or perhaps the man who was arrested in Egypt?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/08/eg...
Maybe it isn't that there are "unanswered questions" so much as Mr. DiFazio wasn't paying attention to the answers.
Richard Rychtarik,
Great letter. I'm reminded that we have one party still fighting the "Cold War" while the world has moved on. When Obama said to Romney, "You mention the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets," sums up the stagnant mentality of those on the right.
As far as Benghazi, only those with inside information know what happened. Instead of looking at the larger picture some of you are narrow minded. Twenty countries went bonkers at that time over the released video and you over look the fact that the House of Reps cut back on funding our embassies. Obama had nothing to do with what happened other than being president. As far as bringing those who murdered our people, I'll remind you, it took years to find Bin Laden. Many people thought he died in the mountains when we first invaded Afghanistan and dropped "daisy cutters" all over the place.
Kevin:
I know, despite your links which are obtuse, [one of which is dated September 14 and still blames the video] that ONLY one person is jailed as a result of Benghazi. The creator of the anti-prophet film that Hillary and President Obama blamed for Benghazi. The rest is all filler and fantasy to assuage your and others who share your naivete for an AWOL Commander-in-Chief.
CarmineD
BTW Kevin, I suppose you still believe that the 4 State Department officials culpable for Benghazi were fired/resigned too. Are you still confusing administrative leave [paid vacation] and desk shuffling with firing?
CarmineD
Hey Carmine, Could you point me to where Faux News had it's website nominated for a Pulitzer for best fiction category regarding Benghazi?
http://www.pulitzer.org/finalists/2012?
"What happened in Benghazi was and is the wheelhouse of the State Department, not the Department of Defense." @ Kevin Sandoval
Totally false. US troops should have been on high alert on 9-11 in the Mediterranean. We should have had air and ground troops [read Defense Department resources] ready to deploy at the first sign of an attack in Benghazi. The attack lingered for 7 plus hours. The US could have had fighter jets from the Air Base in Aviano, Italy over Benghazi in an hour of an SOS call, just like we had the unmanned drone there.
As much as you want to think, and others who share your limited perspective, that Benghazi is over and done with the 60 Minutes lovefest, it's not.
It will come back to haunt President Obama and Hillary Clinton for years and years to come. The voices and memories of the 4 dead Americans will rise up from their graves until all the answers and facts are brought to light. And they will.
CarmineD
"Hey Carmine, Could you point me to where Faux News had it's website nominated for a Pulitzer for best fiction category regarding Benghazi?" Mark Schaffer
Even you should know by now that Benghazi is still a work in print. And there is no statute of limitation on Pulitzer awards.
And remember: He who laughs last, laughs best!
CarmineD
"As far as Benghazi, only those with inside information know what happened." VErnos Branco
The eye witnesses to the attack, who were rescued and air/ground transported away during the attack, have been precluded from coming foward. So far.
CarmineD
Sorry Vern but we have two parties fighting the cold war while the multinationals are taking over the world. We stand by and are being pauperized.
While I find much to criticize on both sides, I wouldn't charaterize it as "they lack the skills 21st-century elected officials find necessary to successfully lead", not unless you can provide some specifics on what exactly those skills are. By and large, like it or not, they seem reasonably representative of their constituencies.
Carmine,
How long did it take George W Bush to bring bin Laden to justice?
I'm confused, Carmine. Earlier you said that no terrorists had been brought to justice. At least one is dead and, as you now admit, one is in jail (in addition to the others I noted). You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Secondly, you continue to say questions have not been answered, yet you posed no actual question. Why is that? What questions, specifically, have yet to be asked and answered?
The more you post about this, the more obvious it is that this is a fishing expedition, exploiting four dead Americans so that the GOP can stall a nominee unrelated to the event at hand. Those heroes deserve our best. We should not betray their memory by using them as political pawns.
I am thinking our people in the field have the latest greatest best technology available. The letter writer has no stated proof otherwise.
"I'm confused, Carmine.
"The more you post about this, the more obvious it is that this is a fishing expedition," Kevin Sandoval
I know you are confused and that's the reason you think those who aren't are on a fishing expedition.
There were as I recall a local force of Libyans of about several dozen strong who were contracted to provide protection and security for the Consulate and CIA annex. When they were outnumbered by the terrorists, they chose to cut and run. When the persons inside the Consulate and CIA annex escaped they said that BEFORE the attack hundreds of terrorists had cordoned off local traffic to and from the area of the Consulate and CIA annex. Now lets see? One dead, one in jail. Does that jibe with hundreds?
CarmineD
"Carmine,
How long did it take George W Bush to bring bin Laden to justice?" antigov
Too long. But he was on the run and lamb the entire time holding out in the mountains and tunnels of Afghanistan. Not sipping lattes in broad daylight in 5 star hotel/restaurants.
CarmineD
"Why is that? What questions, specifically, have yet to be asked and answered? Kevin Sandoval
It's apparent you are not doing your homework on Benghazi. For starters: Between 5 PM Washington time on 9-11 and the wee early morning hours of September 12, President Obama had zero contact with Sec of State, Defense and National Security. President did not ask what was the status and latest. Zero discussions and briefings.
I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that if it were Bush, or any other GOP president, the President and his team would have set up permanent residence in the White House until the situation was under control.
That leads to about a dozen questions, some of which were asked by Congressional inquirers of Panetta and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Which they could not answer. Or their answers were sorely lacking.
CarmineD
Carmine got to give you credit for hanging in there with the kool-aid drinkers who could care less what happened to Americans in Benghazi.
They still think it was about a movie.
But it IS THEIR FAULT. Each is responsible for his/her decisions and failure to perform. You think Obama would not release illegal invaders without a de minimus cut? He has a $trillion to protect Afghans but zip to protect CITIZENS from violent illegals on our streets, in our work places, in our social programs. He has multi-billions every year to protect European residents but nothing to SECURE our borders. Zip to track foreign visitors and visas.
We maintain hundreds of thousands of American troops in Europe while China tweaks cyber attacks.....talk about misguided spending.
"Carmine got to give you credit for hanging in there with the kool-aid drinkers who could care less what happened to Americans in Benghazi.
They still think it was about a movie." Chuck333
Thank you.
CarmineD
' "Obama ordered that the Defense Department respond to the attack with "all available DOD assets" and try to protect U.S. personnel, Panetta said.
Ayotte and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina asked how many times Obama spoke with Panetta and Dempsey after learning about the attack.
Once, in a half-hour conversation with the president, the men said; Obama did not personally get back in touch with them to ask how the mission to help personnel in Benghazi was going.
"Do you think it's a typical response of the president of the United States to make one phone call, do what you can and never call you back again and ask you, 'How is it going, by the way?'" Graham asked.
Panetta replied, "The president is well-informed about what is going on, make no mistake about it."
"Was any airplane launched in the world before the attack was concluded?" Graham asked.
"If you're talking about a strike aircraft, no, senator," Dempsey said.'
CarmineD
BTW, the unmanned drone was dispatched over Benghazi within 17 minutes of the first information of the Benghazi attack. 17 minutes.
And nothing else in terms of military resources for the 7 plus hours of the battle and sacking of the Consulate and CIA Annex. Nothing.
There is a real story here waiting to be told. And a host of American people wanting to hear and read it. I'm one.
CarmineD
How blase the left is about an American Ambassador being murdered along with three fellow Americans; yet obssess over a drink of water Marco Rubio sipped while making a statement. They are truly despicable! I'll bet my entire fortune, paltry as it is, that those same kooks would be out for blood if the Ambassador had been killed on George W.'s watch. They care more about their insidious anti-freedom agenda then they do about how it came to pass that the Ambassador was allowed to be murdered. They are truly despicable!
Comment removed by moderator. - -
The real triple threat is progressives, communists and Socialists both demon rats and repellicans.
Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.
Comment removed by moderator. - -
"Between 5 PM Washington time on 9-11 and the wee early morning hours of September 12, President Obama had zero contact with Sec of State, Defense and National Security. President did not ask what was the status and latest. Zero discussions and briefings."
This is contradicted by the report released by Senators Graham and Collins, which states, specifically, that "Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey were at the White House for a previously scheduled meeting at 5:00 p.m. and so were able to brief the President on the developments in Benghazi as they were occurring."
Both Panetta and Dempsey noted the briefing took place after 5 pm, obliterating your debunked talking point.
Further, the Accountability Review Board found: "... no evidence of any undue delays in decision making or denial of support from Washington or from the military combatant commanders. Quite the contrary: the safe evacuation of all U.S. government personnel from Benghazi twelve hours after the initial attack and subsequently to Ramstein Air Force Base was the result of exceptional U.S. government coordination and military response and helped save the lives of two severely wounded Americans."
Further, from Dempsey's testimony: "I would, if I could just, to correct one thing. I wouldn't say there was no follow-up from the White House. There was no follow-up, to my knowledge, with the president. But his staff was engaged with the national military command center pretty constantly through the period, which is the way it would normally work."
Further, the AP reported, "In one testy exchange, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., questioned whether Panetta spoke again to Obama after that first meeting. The Pentagon chief said no but that the White House was in touch with military officials and aware of what was happening."
"During the eight-hour period, did he show any curiosity?" Graham asked."
"Panetta said there was no question the president was concerned about American lives. Exasperated with Graham's interruptions, Panetta said forcefully, "The president is well-informed about what is going on; make no mistake about it."
Further, from Clinton's testimony: "I was notified of the attack shortly after 4 p.m. Over the following hours we were in continuous meetings and conversations, both within the department, with our team in Tripoli, with the interagency and internationally. I instructed our senior department officials and our diplomatic security personnel to consider every option to just break down the doors of the Libyan officials to get as much security support as we possibly could to coordinate with them. I spoke to the national security adviser, Tom Donilon, several times. I briefed him on developments. I sought all possible support from the White House, which they quickly provided. Tom was my first call."
You actually have yet to pose a question that hasn't been answered, Carmine.
Michael Crowley at Time had a great entry up about the GOP obsession with Benghazi. Specifically, that McCain/Graham's focus on the events of the attack are not grounded in genuine concern for the victims, nor accountability for bad actors, but clamoring for publicity and attention from the GOP base.
It boils down to a desperate ploy to avert a primary challenge from the right by exploiting the deaths of heroes.
The last paragraph of my previous post is pretty important, as it shows Secretary of State Clinton was briefing the National Security Advisor, Tom Donilon, throughout the night. And, as we know from evidence on the record, Tom Donilon was keeping President Obama briefed on the situation.
Carmine's "zero discussions and briefings" talking point? Debunked. Here's proof:
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/whiteho...
That's a picture of NSA Donilon and Deputy National Security Advisor Denis McDonough briefing President Obama and V.P. Joe Biden at 7:28 pm on September 11, 2012 on the events taking place in Benghazi.
So not only was President Obama in a briefing with Leon Panetta and General Dempsey after 5 pm, but Obama was being briefed by his National Security Advisor and his staff at 7:28 pm... the National Security Advisor receiving regular updates from the Secretary of State.
I'm happy to clear that up for you, since you seem to be very misinformed about the events of which you write.
Kevin:
Your blind loyalty to the President and making excuses for his AWOL is admirable but exhibits a youthful naivete. You don't understanding what I have said and printed verbatim in excerpt.
I posted an excerpt of the testimony of Panetta and Dempsey, the Defense leaders who you said had no jurisdiction in Benghazi. Remember? [ I can show you your post if you like to be refreshed]. I said President Obama told both in the White House at 5 PM to use any and all DOD resources to safeguard and protect the lifes of Americans under attack in the Consulate and CIA Annex. Then the President did not follow up with either the entire 7 plus hours of the attack to get a status and/or update of the events on the ground. That begs about a dozen questions, some of which were asked by the Congressional leaders I excerpted and posted above. Reread it. Understand it. Then you and I can have a sound debate on the issue. Until then you are: See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. In other words you are blindfolded, closed minded, and not listening.
And those are JUST the questions during the attack. There are many more before and after. You're just not listening.
CarmineD
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/whiteho......
Kevin: Where are Sec's Panetta, Clinton, and Chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff Dempsey in this photo? No where? Why not! What on God's green earth does Jack Lew, nominee for Secretary of Treasury, know about military rescue and reconnaisance in Benghazi? Nothing! No business being there. Filler. Photo op!
Do you send the hospital custodian into the emergency room to do brain surgery on the patient? Apparently you think so.
CarmineD
Kevin:
Let me take another tact.
At 5 PM on 9-11 the Commander-in Chief called his TOP military leaders [Panetta and Dempsey] together and ordered all the DOD resources to be brought to bear on Benghazi to defend and rescue the Americans at the Consulate and CIA Annex. That's the last and final order: War mode.
At 7:30 PM on 9-11 a Commander-in-Chief doesn't call in deputies to Sec's and advisors [one a finance guy] to get a security briefing on the ground situation. As soon as military mode is taken, as it was, security becomes a footnote. It's reconnaisance and rescue time not security time.
The obvious meetings to be had after 5 PM on 9-11 were rescue and recovery updates not security and intelligence gatherings. Unless of course the 7:30PM 9-11 meeting was to push aother agenda: The video for the media. Begs another question!
The truth will come out. Bet on it.
CarmineD
Carmine, your SOLE quibble right now seems to be Obama being briefed after 5 pm. He was; and I provided photographic proof.
Further, proven in testimony by Secretary Clinton, the White House was receiving regular briefings from the State Department.
To wit: "I spoke to the national security adviser, Tom Donilon, several times. I briefed him on developments. I sought all possible support from the White House, which they quickly provided. Tom was my first call."
And, in that picture, at 7:28 pm, Tom Donilon and Denis McDonough (the National Security Advisor and Deputy National Security Advisor, respectively, at the time) were briefing Obama AND Biden on Benghazi!
YOU claimed they received "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm. You were debunked.
What else you got?
Well, that was an interesting discussion, except for Kevin's and Carmine's conversation.
Carmine claims:
"It will come back to haunt President Obama and Hillary Clinton for years and years to come. The voices and memories of the 4 dead Americans will rise up from their graves until all the answers and facts are brought to light. And they will."
I remind Carmine:
President Romney will get to the bottom of it.
I think you are doing a disservice to the 4 people who died with your witch-hunt. While Obama was a part of this story, the bigger story is looking forward.
You have an intractable anti-Obama attitude that colors your opinions and renders them as so rhetorically incurious as to be McCarthyism in a smaller, Las Vegas setting.
Everyone gets a bit of blame, everyone gets to help correct the problems going forward and Obama will not have Benghazi mentioned in his obituary if he lives into his 70's at least.
If he dies next week you guys will claim it was Hillary who did it because of Benghazi. You guys have no shame...
"YOU claimed they received "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm. You were debunked.
What else you got?" Kevin Sandoval
On military reconnaisance and rescue of the Americans in the Consulate and CIA Annex.
After the military order was given by President Obama to his TOP military chiefs, there was no further discussions, zero, between the Commander in Chief, aka Obama, and his top MILITARY advisors. From 5 PM until the attack was over after 7 plus hours.
I posted the excerpt from Sec of Defense and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to Congress about the President's DOD orders at 5 PM. What part of no more military updates after the orders don't you get from the testimony they provided to Congress.
What part of security briefings are moot after the military option don't you get?
You're like the music maestro telling the Captain of the Titanic that you're resuffling the deck furniture for the violin players as the ship is going down. It's moot.
CarmineD
Jeff:
You, like the White House, HERE pushed the video on 9-12 and after. I told you HERE at noon time on September 12 that it was a result of terrorists. You kowed towed me. I was right and have been since on Benghazi, which you said and still maintain, is a non-issue. 4 Americans are dead. It is the defining moment of the Obama first term. The fact that it happened 6 months ago and still is discussed, and will be in the future, proves me and others like me are right. And you were and still are wrong on Benghazi.
Speaking of Romney, the biggest mistake he made in the debates was not going after President Obama on Bengahzi in the October televised debates. I, and others, will never understand the reason, except he was shamed by the press and/or too nice a guy to do so, or both. It was a defining moment for the debates. If Romney stood his ground to the President and the debate moderator, who was wrong, you would likely be right in calling him President Romney above.
CarmineD
Jeff:
Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State bears the full brunt of the blame for not reading and acting on the August 2012 messages from Ambassador Stevens on the terrorist threats and dangers in Benghazi. She's to blame lock stock and barrel. And President Obama for not requesting her resignation as soon as the information came to light in Congressional testimony and the ARB report. Period. End of story.
Here's my prediction IF Clinton runs for President as you seem to think she will in 2016. T shirts and sweat shirts with her face on them. And the words added: "4 Americans are dead....Who cares what the reasons are?" Her words before Congress...when she finally appeared.
CarmineD
Reminder: I said several days ago that I opine Bob Woodward would do the story on Benghazi waiting to be told. As the days go by, it's looking more and more like I will be right!
CarmineD
Carmine, digging out of Joe McCarthy's Grave said:
"Speaking of Romney, the biggest mistake he made in the debates was not going after President Obama on Bengahzi in the October televised debates. I, and others, will never understand the reason...
...And the words added: "4 Americans are dead....Who cares what the reasons are?" Her words before Congress...when she finally appeared."
I say:
Romney began receiving intelligence updates about the 20th of September. The debates started October 3rd. Romney knew there was no "There" there.
Your Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi is like Whitewater and Vince Foster redux.
Hillary Clinton COMPLETE QUOTE:
"Clinton: With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans.
Johnson: I understand.
Clinton: Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided they'd go kill some Americans? What difference, at this point, does it make?
It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, Senator. Now, honestly, I will do my best to answer your questions about this. But the fact is that people were trying in real time to get the best information".But, you know, to be clear, it is, from my perspective, less important today looking backwards as to why these militants decided they did it than to find them and bring them to justice, and then maybe we'll figure out what was going on in the meantime."
Who cares? Those words were never uttered by Hillary. Have you no Shame Mr. McCarthy?
"Who cares? Those words were never uttered by Hillary. Have you no Shame Mr. McCarthy?" Jeff
Senator McCarthy has been dead for many years now. I suspect his enemies forgave him for his political transgressions. The real question is whether Clinton will be forgiven for hers.
When the T's and Sweats come out in 2016, IF she runs, I'll remind you of my prediction here.
Of course, the idea will make a ton load of money to boot. And probably dedicated in some form of financial memoriam to the 4 dead Americans.
CarmineD
"Your Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi is like Whitewater and Vince Foster redux." Jeff
Bad comparison. Apples and oranges. Vince took his own life. The 4 Americans were murdered.
CarmineD
BTW Jeff the transcript you excerpted doesn't do the exchange justice. Hillary Clinton was furious when she made her comments: "Who cares about the reasons for the 4 dead Americans?" She'll never live that down. Never. My familiarity with Hillary Clinton is that when she is wrong she usually gets belligerent. When she is sincere and heartfelt, she cries. Which emotion do you think she exuded in her Congressional testimony about the murders of 4 American heroes in Benghazi? Belligerence or heartfelt sadness?
CarmineD
Carmine:
Say 30 Hail Mary's, 40 Our Fathers and pray the rosary 5 times...
...lemme know when you're done :)
Carmine, if you think you're being sly by constantly moving the goalposts, you're not. It's obvious and pretty funny to watch the squirming.
You originally wrote that after 5pm, "President did not ask what was the status and latest. Zero discussions and briefings."
That was DEMONSTRABLY wrong. Not only did the original briefing last until 5:30 by all accounts, but there's now indisputable evidence that President Obama was involved in briefings on Benghazi at 7:28.
So, as your words were debunked... you moved the goalposts:
"After the military order was given by President Obama to his TOP military chiefs, there was no further discussions, zero, between the Commander in Chief, aka Obama, and his top MILITARY advisors. From 5 PM until the attack was over after 7 plus hours."
And I ask why that matters. Obama was in direct consultation with his National Security Advisor, who was in direct contact with the Secretary of State. Further, later that night, according to all accounts, the Secretary of State was in direct contact with the President.
Furthermore, I ask why it matters when the investigation into Benghazi found that ... no evidence of any undue delays in decision making or denial of support from Washington or from the military combatant commanders. Quite the contrary: the safe evacuation of all U.S. government personnel from Benghazi twelve hours after the initial attack and subsequently to Ramstein Air Force Base was the result of exceptional U.S. government coordination and military response and helped save the lives of two severely wounded Americans."
If there were no delays, and the federal government did everything realistically in their power to help... why does it matter who Obama spoke directly to? What do you assert would have changed if Obama was in direct contact with Panetta, rather than the National Security Advisor?
You seem to be implying that something would have been different if Obama had spoken directly to Panetta or Dempsey. What, specifically, would have been different? What are you asserting?
Finally, not to step on Jeff's toes, but you can't even get an accurate quote on Clinton's testimony. Jeff provided it, yet you ignore it and are attacking a straw man. Again, obvious obfuscation rather than a fact-based argument.
You're grasping at straws. Seriously, is this everything you've got on Benghazi? THIS is what you're exploiting these heroes deaths for?
"You originally wrote that after 5pm, "President did not ask what was the status and latest. Zero discussions and briefings." Kevin Sandoval
You're wrong, Kevin. I can't imagine what I can say or do short of drawing you a picture of the Sec of Defense, State, and National Security with their names on it.
I said this: "Between 5 PM Washington time on 9-11 and the wee early morning hours of September 12, President Obama had zero contact with Sec of State, Defense and National Security. President did not ask what was the status and latest. Zero discussions and briefings."
You're photo op at 7:30 PM on 9-11 includes none of these 3 people. None.
CarmineD
"You seem to be implying that something would have been different if Obama had spoken directly to Panetta or Dempsey. What, specifically, would have been different? What are you asserting?" Kevin Sandoval
My analogy of the Captain of the Titanic getting an update on the sinking Titanic from the music maestro is fitting. You just can't, won't, don't, or all the above, get it.
CarmineD
"Quite the contrary: the safe evacuation of all U.S. government personnel from Benghazi twelve hours after the initial attack and subsequently to Ramstein Air Force"... Kevin Sandoval
Why haven't these persons, the eye witnesses to the attack and sacking, been interviewed and reported on by the mainstream media? Isn't this something that should have been done by the ARB report investigators and FBI? Why haven't they?
WRT to partnering with Jeff against me to make a point, it's futile. Two ill-informed people don't trump one well-informed person. Although you and he may think so.
CarmineD
You're[sic] photo op at 7:30 PM on 9-11 includes none of these 3 people. None."
First, it includes the NSA and Deputy NSA who were in direct contact with Secretary of State.
Second, you've yet to explain what would be different if Obama had been in direct contact. Again: grasping at straws.
Third: again, what difference does it make that evacuated individuals have not been interviewed by the press?
Fourth: you claim individuals were not interviewed by the ARB. This is FALSE. From a briefing on the ARB report:
"To do all that, we interviewed more than a hundred people, reviewed thousands of documents, and watched hours of video. We spoke with people who were on the scene in Benghazi that night, who were in Tripoli, who were in Washington."
Further proof you're wrong:
"Mr. Stevens is alone in the main building, according to guards interviewed later."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012...
You're making easily-debunked claims and call others "ill-informed." Pot, kettle.
The point Jeff is making is crucial, and it's why you're paraphrasing Clinton and attacking that as a straw man, rather than her actual testimony. Very transparent, Carmine.
Secondly, regarding Clinton, you wrote: "She'll never live that down. Never."
So, importantly, there's video of Clinton's testimony... in particular of the moment you're referencing... but you refuse to link to it. It's obvious this is more obfuscation.
The moment in question: http://youtu.be/TC0AKNQBV80
Hillary gave that testimony in January. In February, Quinnipiac University did a poll and found her favorability at 61%... better than Obama, Biden, Ryan, Rubio or Boehner.
How do you explain this, Carmine?
Kevin:
You keep wanting to get the hospital custodian to perform brain surgery.
"Donilon was 'criticized' by General Jones, who once disparaged Donilon, for his lack of overseas experience, telling him that as a result: "You have no credibility with the military", according to Bob Woodward's "Obama's Wars". Jones said that Donilon was not good in his dealings with his staff at the National Security Council, displaying "too little feel for the people who work day and night....". Donilon did visit Afghanistan March 2010 during President Obama's six-hour late-night visit to the country."
Donilon has no concept of terrorism. None. It's not his specialty. Should have been Brennen, Clinton and Panetta in the meeting at 7:30 PM. The minnows in the picture you posted are a photo op for the media.
Recall it was you who said Bengahzi was the Sec of State's authority not Defense. You would be right if the Commander-in-Chief, aka Obama, didn't meet with Dempsey and Panetta at 5 PM on 9-11 to play the military option. Once the President did [play the military option], the military was in charge of the situation. Not State, not Security. They should be there out of courteous and protocol. Now IF you get that, tell me what did the Commander-in-Chief say or do with Panetta/Dempsey, Clinton and Brennan after the 5 PM meeting to get an update on the combat situation in Benghazi?
CarmineD
"Hillary gave that testimony in January. In February, Quinnipiac University did a poll and found her favorability at 61%... better than Obama, Biden, Ryan, Rubio or Boehner.
How do you explain this, Carmine?"
Kevin: Polls are taken at one point in time. History is for the ages. History is based on facts and real events. Polls are based on peoples feelings and emotions. Never the twain shall meet.
CarmineD
' "To do all that, we interviewed more than a hundred people, reviewed thousands of documents, and watched hours of video. We spoke with people who were on the scene in Benghazi that night, who were in Tripoli, who were in Washington." ' Kevin Sandoval
Who are they and where can I read their testimony and statements?
CarmineD
"John Owen Brennan (born September 22, 1955) is chief counterterrorism advisor to U.S. President Barack Obama; officially his title is Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, and Assistant to the President. His responsibilities include overseeing plans to protect the country from terrorism and respond to natural disasters, and he meets with the President daily"
Not Donilon, Kevin. Now, see if you can get Jeff to understand that too.
CarmineD
"Thomas E. "Tom" Donilon (born May 14, 1955) is the National Security Advisor in the Obama Administration,[2] and has had a career as a U.S. political advisor, government official and lawyer."
Maybe this will assist you to understand the difference between an advisor, a Chump, and an Assistant to the President, a Chief.
CarmineD
"Carmine:
"Say 30 Hail Mary's, 40 Our Fathers and pray the rosary 5 times...
...lemme know when you're done :)" Jeff
I do everyday and it's never ending. I pray for patience with others and understanding of others.
It's very difficult. You should try it.
CarmineD
Oh, it gets better! Now you're quibbling over WHICH advisors he should have been talking to? What a pathetic red herring.
NEXT!
On Donilon:
"The National Security Advisor, officially known as the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, serves as a chief advisor to the President of the United States on national security issues."
Hmmm. Sounds like a great advisor to have on hand during a national security crisis, Carmine!
NEXT!
"Once the President did [play the military option], the military was in charge of the situation. Not State, not Security."
Whoops, WRONG again. State Department deployed a security team from the embassy in Tripoli... AFTER the President gave orders to Panetta.
NEXT!
"Now IF you get that, tell me what did the Commander-in-Chief say or do with Panetta/Dempsey, Clinton and Brennan after the 5 PM meeting to get an update on the combat situation in Benghazi?"
Asked and answered above. Obama/Biden were briefed by NSA and Deputy NSA, who were being given regular updates by the State Department... by Clinton herself.
NEXT!
"Who are they and where can I read their testimony and statements?"
Conclusions from interviews with these individuals can be found in the ARB report that you've referenced above.
NEXT!
"Maybe this will assist you to understand the difference between an advisor, a Chump, and an Assistant to the President, a Chief."
Yup, the NSA during the assassination of OBL is a "chump?"
NEXT!
Every single "question" you've posed has been answered. I demand new questions, since you claimed there were so many unanswered ones.
No more retreads. Give me some fresh stuff to debunk, Carmine.
Oh, and since you brought him up and it's so topical... before you rely too heavily on Bob Woodward, you might want to duck outside to see how he trolled the conservative media into believing the Obama administration "threatened" him.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/en...
""Looks like we were played," The Daily Caller's Matt Lewis wrote Thursday morning."
"RedState editor Erick Erickson was also surprised after reading the emails: "Ok wow. Finally read the email to Woodward. I must now move to the "not a threat" camp."
Not even your favorite media sources find Woodward credible anymore, Carmine. Try again.
Kevin:
Compare this photo with the 7:30 PM 9-11 meeting. And be sure to read the names and caption. See the difference? One is real. The other is a photo op.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02...
CarmineD
Kevin:
WRT Bob Woodward: He is by all accounts the Billy Graham of the news media. Every President and White House since Nixon wants to get him on their good side. If you don't get that, you better take Jeff's advice and start praying.
CarmineD
"Conclusions from interviews with these individuals can be found in the ARB report that you've referenced above." Kevin
Link please with the names/identities of the of the individual comments/statements. Not ARB authors' synopsis.
CarmineD
"I demand new questions, since you claimed there were so many unanswered ones." Kevin Sandoval
I demand answers to the ones already asked. Perhaps Bob Woodward will provide. Stay tuned.
CarmineD
"Yup, the NSA during the assassination of OBL is a "chump?" Kevin Sandoval
No "Chump" with a capital "C." Per General Jones, not me.
CarmineD
"Whoops, WRONG again. State Department deployed a security team from the embassy in Tripoli... AFTER the President gave orders to Panetta." Kevin Sandoval
Perhaps the detail was sent as a result of the Defense Secretary's advice to the President. Remember President Obama, aka Commander-in-Chief, called Panetta and Dempsey first at 5 PM on 9-11 to the Oval Office after the news of the attack and sacking of the Consulate and CIA Annex. Not State and National Security. The military card option was in play [or was it?]. Military called the shots [or did they?]. More questions for answers.
CarmineD
"See the difference? One is real."
Correction: Both are real and happened, contrary to your earlier statement that Obama had received "zero discussions and briefings."
NEXT!
Even your own news sources have turned on Woodward today, Carmine. See earlier post. Asked and answered.
NEXT!
As stated, conclusions from interviews with the individuals in question can be found in the ARB report which you referenced above.
NEXT!
You've received answers to every single question you've asked. You may not like the answers, but they have been given. Rejecting answers does not mean they were not supplied.
NEXT!
Donilon assisted in the assassination of one of the greatest enemies the United States has ever known. I'll take his record over yours.
NEXT!
"The military card option was in play [or was it?]. Military called the shots [or did they?]. More questions for answers."
Military was ONE of several resources in play, not the sole, as evidenced by State department sending detail from Tripoli. You question has been answered.
NEXT!
You just gave me more retreads. Not any new questions. You claimed there were all these unanswered questions, Carmine. Where are they?
Carmine:
Need a hand up out of the water? You're Drowning.
If you have energy left you can turn around and swim to the shallow end.
Interesting you claim God has chosen the new pope already, but Obama was able to assert his own will about Benghazi.
Maybe the way it happened in Benghazi was God's will too?
Or are you sure Obama and God don't see eye to eye? And you are then asserting God won't let the priests with red robes make a mistake (except for allowing the rapists of young alter boys to avoid detection), but He stands aside and lets Obama?
The more you talk about Benghazi...
Kevin & Jeff:
I suggest both of you read "Obama's Wars" by Bob Woodward. Obviously neither of you have heard of the book or read it. It's 390 pages. Plus 25 pages of notes/sources. It's an eye opener about the movers an shakers in the Obama presidency. General Jones was Security Chief. Donilon was his deputy. When Jones stepped down, Brennan got the nod for the top job and Donilon was passed over. Just one case of a "Chump." vs a Chief. Many more examples like that. Until you undertstand the inside power people and plays, you repeat and believe the nonsense of the mainstream media rather then analyze and interpret it.
I trust if I "debunked" any of your thinking/posting here on Bengahzi it is the nonsense that Benghazi is and was owned by the State Dept. It was up to 9-11. After that it was the purview of the Defense Department/Joint Chiefs. The ARB report, as scathing as it was, is a whitewash. You bopth bought into it. IT'S THE GOVERNMENT POLICING ITSELF. Both Defense and State failed miserably in Benghazi AND STILL. Because the Commander-in-Chief, aka Obama, failed.
This is nothing new for me to think, say and post. I have said this all along from 9-11 up to now and will continue until the truth is told.
CarmineD
"Excuse me, I am in the running for Pope.
I resent anyone assuming it's a done deal when my chances are daunting."
Joe Lamy: Unless and until you are in receipt of a one way ticket to Rome, provided by the Magisterium, you're not on the short list or even in the running. Trust me on this one.
CarmineD
"Not even your favorite media sources find Woodward credible anymore, Carmine. Try again." Kevin Sandoval
IF and WHEN you read "Obama's Wars" remember Obama and the White House gave Woodward unfettered access and authorization to write the book. Why? Woodward is an associate editor at the Washington Post, [the source liberals and Obama fans like you like to read and quote]. He has 39 years there. He's earned tywo Pulitzer Prizes for his journalism. First for the Post's coverage of Watergate [were you even born then?], and later for the 9-11 terrorist attacks [surely you recall those]. Two of the defining moments in recent American history. LIKE BENGHAZI. Woodward has authored or coauthored eleven # 1 national nonfiction bestsellers. He's a heavyweight. And the first to go public about the White House's bullying of news networks and reporters who disagree with it. Big mistake for the White House and you if you agree with it.
CarmineD
Enjoy Kevin/Jeff:
CarmineD
5:00 pm EDT (allegedly before the meeting with Panetta and Dempsey)National Security Advisor Tom Donilon tell Obama of the attacks and the fire at the Ambassador's residence.
5:00 pm EDT meeting with Obama, Biden, Panetta and Dempsey begins
5:00 pm EDT About this time, the "response team" is leaving the "Mission"
5:15 pm EDT Benghazi attack conversation ends with Obama telling Panetta and Dempsey to do "everything we needed to do to protect lives there."
5:30 pm EDT Pentagon knows that the fighting is over at the "Mission," Stevens and Smith are dead and a "response team" is evacuating survivors.
6:00 pm EDT The response team arrives at the CIA compound (annex) which is under fire.
6:00 pm to 8:00 pm EDT: Panettais holding meetings and "issues several orders."
Two Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team (FAST) platoons stationed in Rota, Spain prepare to deploy -- one to Benghazi and the other to the Embassy in Tripoli; A special operations team in Europe is ordered to move to Sigonella, Sicily -- less than one hour's flight away from Benghazi; An additional special operations team based in the U.S. is ordered to deploy to Sigonella. Source: CBS
6:07 pm EDT State Department sends email saying "Ansar al-Sharia Claims Responsibility for Benghazi Attack"
6:30 pm EDT A 6-man security team, including two from the Department of Defense leave our Tripoli Embassy for Benghazi
7:30 pm EDT The 6-man security team arrives in Benghazi and learns that Ambassador Stevens is missing.
9:09 pm EDT Fox News and other major news sites have reported one American is dead in the Libya Embassy and I posted that report.
10:07 pm EDT Clinton issues statement that attacks were caused by an anti-Islam YouTube video, ignoring the 6:07 pm email report of Ansar al-Sharia and announces the death of one State Department officer
11:00 pm EDT Another drone arrives over Benghazi. The first drone leaves the area
continued:
11:15 pm EDT
"The U.S. Regional Security Office in Tripoli gets a phone call from an Arabic-speaking source who says a Westerner has been found in Benghazi and is perhaps at a hospital. It's believed to be Ambassador Stevens. Transfer to airport is arranged." Source CBS
At around the same time, the additional security team [from Tripoli] finds transportation from the airport under the escort of the Libyan Shield, another local militia, but decides to head to the [CIA] annex after learning that Stevens was almost certainly dead. Just after their arrival, the annex takes mortar fire, sustaining three direct hits. The precision of the attacks indicates a level of sophistication and coordination.
1:40 am EDT 9/12/12 The first planeload of Americans, including diplomats and civilians leaves Benghazi for Tripoli. Security staff and the bodies of Stevens and Smith are not on the flight.
2:05 pm EDT on 9/12/12 Obama boards Air Force One to Las Vegas for a campaign event
4:00 am EDT 9/12/12 The second flight leaves Benghazi for Tripoli with security members and the bodies of Stevens and Smith."
A story waiting to be told.
CarmineD
Note Kevin, no mention of your photo op meeting at 7:30 PM in the White House. I wonder why that is? Oops, another question to answer?
CarmineD
Here's my answer Kevin. It was a spin meeting. The "politicians" in the link you posted spun the story that Hillary Clinton announced at 10 PM on 9-11 that pushed the YouTube anti-prophet video. What do you think? Opps, another question to answer?
CarmineD
The Truth, the whole truth, nuthin but the truth.
Carmine, why did you post a partial timeline?
Because it would undercut EVERYTHING you say about Benghazi? Yes sir, it will and it does.
Also, the website it is taken from advocates the execution and slaughter of rapists as the reason to keep gun clips of more than 10 rounds. From the masthead of the "maggiesnotebook dot com" website" "For Rapists, everybody needs more than 10 rounds ~ Geeks With Guns". Another tab from that "unfair and unbalanced" website is titled "History Of Democrat Racism"
Now, the part of the timeline you left out:
"3:40 pm EDT in Washington, D.C. gunfire and an explosion are heard at the "Mission." The attack on Benghazi "Mission" begins.
3:43 pm EDT Ambassador Stevens cables the State Department about "growing frustration with police and security forces" too weak to keep "Libya secure." (3 minutes into the attack)
4 pm EDT Security agents at the "Mission" leave the Ambassador's residence to get "tactical gear" from Building B. One Agent stays with Ambassador Stevens and Sean Smith. The terrorists set fire to the 17th of February Brigade Barracks on the "Mission" site. Security Agent Scott Strickland moves Stevens and Smit to the "safe haven" in Building C. Building B and The Operation Center (TOC) comes under attack with Americans inside. Building C is entered (the residence) and set afire inside and outside. Strickland, Stevens and Smith lie on a bathroom floor to escape smoke, but are forced to leave.
Strickland gets a window open and gets outside. Stevens and Smith do not follow. Strickland reenters numerous times but cannot locate them. He climbs to the rooftop and radios for help.
Three agents return to Building C in an armored vehicle which was on the property. They search and can find Smith but not Stevens.
According to CBS News Hillary Clinton learned "shortly after it began at 4 pm." No information on where Clinton was at that time.
4:05 pm EDT the first notice of the attacks (as far as has been stated) The White House received EMAIL notice of the attacks from the State Department.
4:25 pm EDT The 6-member team arrives from the CIA compound (annex) and with the help of 40-60 members of the 17th of February Brigade, they remove the body of Sean Smith.
4:54 pm EDT Notice that firing had stopped at the "Mission" and a "response team" was attempting to locate personnel"
This clearly shows that Hillary was aware within 20 minutes of the assassination plot against the USA in Behghazi.
The president was notified 80 minutes after the attack begins, 15 minutes later he issues an order to do what can be done to save lives.
A pretty remarkable response overall by Americans to a deadly attack. We had response teams there in less than 2 hours, reliable intelligence that Stevens was dead, an evacuation was taking place.
We would be hard pressed to mount a quicker assemblage of people, logistics, and mission in Los Angeles.
You really need to quit lying to Americans about Obama and democrats in general. I have see there is good in you, quit suffocating the goodness, and lose the untruthfulness.
Your timeline shows America lost 4 people, but there just wasn't time to save them. It shows the top people in our government gathered, tried, and failed to save them. This shows the power, at times, that terrorists have. It is not a reason for you to continue to be almost hateful on a daily basis towards all things Obama.
If he starts a war and begins bombing babies, then we will talk. Benghazi? You are being almost a traitor.
Comment removed by moderator. - -
Carmine, this is all retreads. Old stuff. Asked and answered. The briefing was reported on Fox News. Here's a screencap of the 7:28 pm briefing when it was reported on Special Report with Bret Baier:
http://c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-co...
"The "politicians" in the link you posted spun the story that Hillary Clinton announced at 10 PM on 9-11 that pushed the YouTube anti-prophet video."
YOU SAID THEY HAD NO CONTACT AFTER 5 PM UNTIL THE NEXT MORNING! Are you aware you're proving just how little you understand about what happened? No wonder you have so many questions and conspiracy theories... you're really confused about what happened!
NEXT!
"...you repeat and believe the nonsense of the mainstream media rather then analyze and interpret it."
Carmine,
You just made an allegation that the President, Vice President, National Security Advisor and Deputy NSA conspired with the Secretary of State to intentionally mislead the American people based on no evidence whatsoever.
You claimed the President received "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm. Then you posted a timeline which referred to briefings with the President after 5 pm.
To wit: "5:15 pm EDT Benghazi attack conversation ends with Obama telling Panetta and Dempsey to do "everything we needed to do to protect lives there."
You claimed that, "Between 5 PM Washington time on 9-11 and the wee early morning hours of September 12, President Obama had zero contact with Sec of State, Defense and National Security."
Now you claim that President Obama, the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor were conspiring to intentionally mislead Americans at 7:28 pm.
You can't keep the conspiracy theory straight, hence your questions. Your baseless allegations and changing assertions prove that you really have no grasp on what happened, and have resorted to fantasy and conspiracy, rather than facts and evidence.
Reading your conspiracy theories reminds me of debunking the same conspiracy theories of 9/11 truthers. They allege "unanswered questions" when the answers exist and are readily available. They allege national leaders conspire when there is clear, credible evidence to the contrary.
This sort of trutherism or birtherism or Benghazism deserves no further attention. Conspiracy theories thrive on publicity.
Your assertions have been proven wrong, and your stories have changed or contradicted themselves several times.
It's clear to all that the only questions you have left are rooted in a deep misunderstanding of the events that took place.
Perhaps we should consider that sooooo many of the local/state-level politicians do NOT KNOW what they are doing. The learning cure.....means many mistakes along the way--endless spending, new unneeded/unwanted programs, more taxes, less efficiency. We / they need to PRIORITIZE needs. Let's face it. The FIRST NEED is to preserve/enable a productive economy by encouraging WORKERS. On an individual / family level that means having an emergency fund--no matter how difficult that is to save. On a government level, this means COST EFFECTIVE with "internal controls" designed to preclude fraud and ABUSE. But first and foremost, this means no programs ahead of priority--enable and preserve the economy for Americans BEFORE paying for illegals (K-12 wants 50% more for ELL), before foreign aid, before "defending" Europe, before interfering in rebellions and political squabbles. Think for just a minute: Obama and company put priority on finding and funding the "needs" of almost every OTHER nation BEFORE considering AMERICAN CITIZEN needs. Seniors are going hungry in cold sub-standard housing while we feed the world and illegals.
"It's clear to all that the only questions you have left are rooted in a deep misunderstanding of the events that took place."
Kevin:
Now with 100 percent certainty I am sure you have not read "Obama's Wars" by Bob Woodward. Read it, then tell me who is conspiring and alleging these things: Me or the people closest to the President who he surrounds himself with.
WRT to knowing and understanding the facts and circumstances of Benghazi, it all starts with questions of which I have many. The answers are sorely lacking by those LIKE YOU who claim to know. What you and they really mean is exactly what Hillary Clinton said under sworn testimony: "What difference does it make!" Now that's an insightful beginning [AND END] to all the willingness to obtain the knowledge of the facts about Benghazi.
Bob Woodward, the world hath need of thee!
CarmineD
"We would be hard pressed to mount a quicker assemblage of people, logistics, and mission in Los Angeles." Jeff
NOt really. An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge of the Benghazi attack. Should have been a fighter jet or two!
CarmineD
Threats? We waste our money on keeping hundreds of thousands of troops in Europe, Guam, Japan....while we do little, very little, to deal with cyber threats, spies and terrorists who come in via our
southern border and go into deep cover; we feed and vaccinate much of the world where the peoples remain unable and/or unwilling to grow their own or invest in their own economies--like Mexico and points south--where there is limitless opportunity to build thriving economies.
Comment removed by moderator. - -
"Your timeline shows America lost 4 people, but there just wasn't time to save them" Jeff
Was there enough time to blow the terrorists responsible for the 4 American murders to kingdom come SO THEY WOULD NEVER DO IT AGAIN?
Oops, there's another question! That begs about a half dozen more! ;-) Kevin, your turn....
CarmineD
Jeff:
BTW, I prayed today for patience with you and others who spout the talking points of the mainstream media about Benghazi. Truth be told, the more you and others and I talk about it, the more likely Bob Woodward or someone of his stature will take on the Administration for the failings and mistakes of Benghazi.
SO please continue and allow me to respond. The more and longer the debates and discussions about Benghazi the more likely the truth will be told.
So thank you, thank you, thank you.
CarmineD
"Read it, then tell me who is conspiring and alleging these things: Me or the people closest to the President who he surrounds himself with."
You are alleging that the President, Vice President, National Security Advisor and Deputy NSA conspired with the Secretary of State to intentionally mislead the American people. You have provided no evidence of this conspiracy.
You claimed the President received "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm. Then you posted a timeline which referred to briefings with the President after 5 pm.
To wit: "5:15 pm EDT Benghazi attack conversation ends with Obama telling Panetta and Dempsey to do "everything we needed to do to protect lives there."
You claimed that, "Between 5 PM Washington time on 9-11 and the wee early morning hours of September 12, President Obama had zero contact with Sec of State, Defense and National Security."
Now you claim that President Obama, the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor were conspiring to intentionally mislead Americans at 7:28 pm.
Again, if you have evidence of this conspiracy, cite it now. A book, published two years before the Benghazi attack, is not evidence of your claim.
Cite your evidence for your allegations, Carmine.
I wrote earlier: It's clear to all that the only questions [Carmine] has left are rooted in a deep misunderstanding of the events that took place.
Carmine wrote:
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge[sic] of the Benghazi attack."
This is false.
The assault on the Consulate began at 9:42 pm, local time in Benghazi. The surveillance drone was directed to fly over the compound 17 minutes later at 9:59, but did not ARRIVE at the Consulate until 11:10 pm. It was not "over there within 17 minutes."
Source: CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/world/afri...
According to the Pentagon's timeline, the military's Africa Command, based in Europe, ordered an unmanned, unarmed surveillance drone diverted to the city in eastern Libya just 17 minutes after the attack on the consulate began about 9:42 p.m. local time (3:42 p.m. EDT), the first military action in response to the incident. It took the drone more than an hour to arrive at the scene.
Source: Reuters/Pentagon
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/1...
Carmine's conspiracy theories are mixed with his fundamentally flawed recollection of events in Benghazi.
Carmine said:
SO please continue and allow me to respond. The more and longer the debates and discussions about Benghazi the more likely the truth will be told.
So thank you, thank you, thank you.
Carmine"
I say:
Carmine - the reason it is so much easier for you conservatives, Republicans, and pretend independents is because it is easier to give someone the finger instead of a helping hand.
Quit giving all of us the finger and then we will offer you a helping hand.
"The assault on the Consulate began at 9:42 pm, local time in Benghazi. The surveillance drone was directed to fly over the compound 17 minutes later at 9:59, but did not ARRIVE at the Consulate until 11:10 pm. It was not "over there within 17 minutes." Kevin Sandoval
Do you think a fighter jet flies faster than a drone? ;-) I sure hope so. The drone got ther in one hour and 10 minutes. How long would the fighter jet take?
You argue over the meaning of the words while missing the words' meaning.
CarmineD
"Quit giving all of us the finger and then we will offer you a helping hand." Jeff
Obviously you missed the fray between the Senate Intelligence Committee members and the White House. For 6 months now, the Committee has been requesting messaging and emails for the night of 9-11. And for 6 months the White House has been giving the Committee the finger. How? Each iteration is redacted. Well, news flash. The Senate Intelligence Committee can play that game too. The Senate, primarily Democrats, are holding up Brennan's confirmation as CIA director [note Kevin it's not Donilon who got passed over yet again]. Why? Figure it out. It's not that hard!
I understand a new unredacted version was submitted yesterday. How will we know? Let's see if Brennan gets confirmed this upcoming week!
I love you guys. Keep it up. You are doing the country an immense favor with the ongoing debate. Keep Benghazi alive. It's exactly what the White House does not want to happen.
CarmineD
"So I'll be just as infallible as ole Saint Peter in just a few votes and then when they see me windsurfing across the Cremora or the Tiber in my speedo and camauro, I'll be captured for time immemorial. Nice chatting with you heathens. Ciao"
I would hate to be the Cardinal who has to hear your confession BEFORE you can inherit the Chair of St. Peter. He may likely die God forbid before you are finished.
CarmineD
"WASHINGTON | Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:10pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate intelligence committee on Wednesday postponed until next week a vote on the confirmation of White House aide John Brennan to be CIA director, dashing hopes of Democratic leaders who had hoped to have a vote on Thursday.
The committee's Republican vice chairman, Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, said the panel expects to hold the vote on Tuesday.
No explanation for the delay was immediately available. However, the Obama administration has been at odds with members of the committee's Democratic majority over White House unwillingness to disclose some highly classified legal documents related to "targeted killings," including the use of lethal drone strikes against suspected militants."
CarmineD
Kevin:
When I read the two sources in your last post I have to say you haven't. Or if you did, you didn't understand what you read. Both, I repeat both, DID I SAY BOTH?, are clearly on my side of the debate and not yours. You as I said have blind loyalty to a President who was in over his head with the events and circumstance of Benghazi on 9-11 and an AWOL Commander-in-Chief. He would have been better served apologizing to the family and friends of the 4 dead Americans rather than promising justice he hasn't yet delivered. We'll know when and if he does make good on his promise. The President will hold a press conference to inform us.
CarmineD
Carmine:
You keep blending that baloney and processing it, flattening it, reshaping it, but as this discussion fades into area 51 territory because of excess handling the volume of your baloney is severely reduced leaving you with what is commonly called garbage.
Quit eatin that stuff, you'll get sick.
Kevin:
If one looks rationally at the pictures from the CNN link and reads the Reuters reporting like a responsible human being you will know that we were lucky it was not more than 4 dead and you will want the focus to be on the assassins, not Obama and Hillary.
I had looked at those images in September, but time had erased the story they told.
More fuel for the middle fingers of republicans hellbent on one party rule is what Carmine and the others are trying to accomplish.
They shall reap what they've sown.
Not to worry Lamy, there was a whole lot of begatten done through the sin of sex, yet these biblical legends are still considered "holy."
CarmineD
Carmine, you've dropped both arguments and have failed to respond.
First, you are alleging that the President, Vice President, National Security Advisor and Deputy NSA conspired with the Secretary of State to intentionally mislead the American people. You have provided no evidence of this conspiracy.
You claimed the President received "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm. Then you posted a timeline which referred to briefings with the President after 5 pm.
To wit: "5:15 pm EDT Benghazi attack conversation ends with Obama telling Panetta and Dempsey to do "everything we needed to do to protect lives there."
You claimed that, "Between 5 PM Washington time on 9-11 and the wee early morning hours of September 12, President Obama had zero contact with Sec of State, Defense and National Security."
Now you claim that President Obama, the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor were conspiring to intentionally mislead Americans at 7:28 pm.
Again, if you have evidence of this conspiracy, cite it now. A book, published two years before the Benghazi attack, is not evidence of your claim.
You have made an allegation without a shred of evidence. Cite your evidence for this claim, Carmine.
Second, you alleged that the drone arrived at the consulate 17 minutes after the attack began. This is a lie.
For proof, you wrote:
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge[sic] of the Benghazi attack."
This is a lie.
The assault on the Consulate began at 9:42 pm, local time in Benghazi. The surveillance drone was directed to fly over the compound 17 minutes later at 9:59, but did not ARRIVE at the Consulate until 11:10 pm. It was not "over there within 17 minutes."
Source: CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/world/afri...
According to the Pentagon's timeline, the military's Africa Command, based in Europe, ordered an unmanned, unarmed surveillance drone diverted to the city in eastern Libya just 17 minutes after the attack on the consulate began about 9:42 p.m. local time (3:42 p.m. EDT), the first military action in response to the incident. It took the drone more than an hour to arrive at the scene.
Source: Reuters/Pentagon
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/1...
You are now intentionally misleading people. You said the drone had arrived on-scene 17 minutes after the attack occurred. It did not, by all accounts.
Between your conspiracy theories and now your obviously incorrect assertions, it's clear you have no credibility on Benghazi.
Jeff:
I cringe to think of the state of learning if everyone had the level of curiosity you have on Benghazi. Which boils down to Obama is ALWAYS right so everything he does is too. That doesn't even work for Bob Woodward and Robert Gibbs but you think it will for me. Good luck with that!
CarmineD
Kevin:
Read what I posted above to Jeff. Same applies.
"Before" the Woodward and the White House spat this week on the President's ruse on Sequestration, I opined Bob Woodward would and could do an excellent job to uncover the facts and truth of Benghazi. After this week, I'm convinced of it. Stay tuned.
CarmineD
"Between your conspiracy theories and now your obviously incorrect assertions, it's clear you have no credibility on Benghazi."
I don't have to have credibility on Benghazi. That's above my pay grade. I'm not the Commander in Chief, President Obama is.
CarmineD
"I don't have to have credibility on Benghazi. That's above my pay grade."
You said you had "done your homework on Benghazi," Carmine.
Now it turns out you don't know basic facts about the attack. You're horribly misinformed and have made allegations you can't substantiate.
You claimed a massive conspiracy at the White House, yet have no evidence.
You asserted a drone arrived on site 17 minutes after the attack, yet it arrived more than an hour after the attack.
You asserted the President received, "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm, when there is proof there were meetings.
It's clear your ignorance on Benghazi is fueled by your hatred of President Obama. It is not fact based, it is not based on a crusade of justice for those who lost their lives, but a petty political argument coupled with conspiracy theories and a misunderstanding of the facts as they occurred.
What's really interesting is that Carmine's cultivated this hatred for the President based on half-truths and poor reporting by the right-wing media.
"THERE WAS A DRONE THERE 17 MINUTES AFTER THE ATTACK!"
No, there wasn't. Which media source told you there was? Fox News? Breitbart? Daily Caller?
"PRESIDENT HAD NO BRIEFINGS AFTER 5 PM!"
That's not true, either. Which media source told you that? Fox News? Breitbart? Daily Caller?
It turns out you're nearly as bad as the 9/11 truthers, Carmine. You reject clear evidence that contradicts the conspiracy theories you've been led to believe.
You've yet to provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. In three days!
You definitely BELIEVE Obama is guilty of a conspiracy on Benghazi. Unfortunately, you have no evidence to support this belief.
It's your religion, Carmine.
"What happened in Benghazi was and is the wheelhouse of the State Department, not the Department of Defense"
You said this Kevin on Feb 26, at 8:27 AM.
I responded back. "Totally false."
I'll stick with my account. You can stick with yours.
CarmineD
"I'll stick with my account. You can stick with yours."
The difference, as we've all seen, is that I have EVIDENCE, and am providing THE account, not MY account.
You have presented half-truths, lies and conspiracy theories.
"Totally false" does indeed describe your arguments, Carmine.
For the record Kevin, which you like to distort and twist, these were my exact words on the drone:
"BTW, the unmanned drone was dispatched over Benghazi within 17 minutes of the first information of the Benghazi attack. 17 minutes."
You quoted me as saying this:
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge[sic] of the Benghazi attack."
There not the same, Kevin. ;-) You put words in my mouth here that I never said then proceed to write volumes of nonsense in reply.
CarmineD
"You put words in my mouth here that I never said then proceed to write volumes of nonsense in reply."
Wow. More lies.
Scroll up to March 1, 2013 at 9:57 am. Your post.
You wrote:
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge of the Benghazi attack."
Your credibility crumbles further.
Based on the preceding commentary I predict that Benghazi will remain in the conspiracist lexicon along with birther, truther and other minutae. Terrorist or even nationalist attacks on US interests and facilities are nothing new. As the American empire retreats and is supplanted by [most likely] Chinese interests we will probably see a change in targets.
Kevin:
Like I said you debate the meaning of the words without comprehending the words' meaning.
And the Benghazi discussion, almost 6 months after it happened, is wonderful. It keeps the issue alive and well an on the radar screen. Exactly what the President doesn't want.
I see that Chad and Mali soldiers killed the Al Qaeda leader responsible for the sacking of the oil refinery in January where 3 Americans were killed. Just slightly more than a month later. And surprise surprise 3 of the 5 Americans who survived the attack were interviewed on the Charlie Rose show within days of their rescue.
Do you see any differences here with Benghazi? And saying the January Al Qaeda attack was on an oil refinery is not the correct answer.
CarmineD
"Like I said you debate the meaning of the words without comprehending the words' meaning."
Carmine: I comprehend the words you use and the intent behind the use. It's pretty simple.
At 9:57 am on March 1, you asserted that drones had arrived at the consulate 17 minutes after the attack was known.
The quote:
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge of the Benghazi attack."
After being called out in your ignorance of the facts - the drone had not arrived 17 minutes later, but more than an hour later - you then made the incredulous and obviously false claim that you never wrote the quote that anyone can read.
Did you - or did you not - assert incorrectly at 9:57 am on March 1, that the drone arrived at the consulate 17 minutes after knowledge of the attack?
You did. You know you did. And in desperation, you're trying to change the subject.
Not gonna work, Carmine.
Ironic Pat Hayes that you post that now. I did the same. I compared the January oil refinery sacking and deaths with the event in Benghazi. Why is it that there are no questions and mysteries surrounding the former [oil refinery] but are of the latter [Benghazi]?
The US should be ashamed of itself. No doubt when the US wanted to become involved in the oil refinery incident, the local government authorities told the US absolutely not. It preferred to resolve without US involvement. Yet, by the American witnesses own account the Americans and British were the most desirable prisoners and fetched the highest ransom.
CarmineD
Kevin:
Congrats on your early waking and response. But it doesn't help your cause.
I said both. "Dispatched" and "over." You chose the second version to suit your needs. Use the first version of my post on the matter. Then make the point you are trying to make, if you can.
CarmineD
So far, every "mystery" and "question" you have presented on Benghazi has been based on lies, misrepresentations, or wild, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, Carmine.
Yup, it turns out you don't know basic facts about the attack. You're horribly misinformed and have made allegations you can't substantiate.
You claimed a massive conspiracy at the White House, yet have no evidence.
You asserted a drone arrived on site 17 minutes after the attack, yet it arrived more than an hour after the attack.
You asserted the President received, "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm, when there is proof there were meetings.
It's clear your ignorance on Benghazi is fueled by your hatred of President Obama. It is not fact based, it is not based on a crusade of justice for those who lost their lives, but a petty political argument coupled with conspiracy theories and a misunderstanding of the facts as they occurred.
"I said both."
Yes, you have such a poor grasp on the facts, you asserted two wildly different events. Then you denied a direct quote!
The fact is that you asserted a drone was at the consulate 17 minutes after the attack was known, and that is completely false.
Your quote:
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge of the Benghazi attack."
In context, "over there" clearly meant at the consulate. This is patently false. You misrepresented the facts and then denied you said that when caught in your lies.
That's one of your several misrepresentations or falsehoods, Carmine. You lie, then deny you lied, then admit you lied, and expect anyone to respect you or give your arguments or questions credibility?
Your credibility is toast on this.
Your debate to make your case against me hinges on the issue of 33 minutes? Good luck with that.
The point is if a drone was there in an hour a fighter jet or two could have been too. They weren't and we still don't know why.
Those are facts Kevin. They are incontrovertible.
CarmineD
"The point is if a drone was there in an hour a fighter jet or two could have been too. They weren't and we still don't know why."
This is not true, either. Dempsey testified about this in the hearing!
"Dempsey: And the nearest -- for example, the nearest aircraft -- armed aircraft, happened to be in Djibouti, the distance from Djibouti to Benghazi is the distance from Washington, D.C., to Los Angeles. There is some significant physics involved. And the time available, given the intelligence available, I have great confidence in reporting to the American people that we were appropriately responsive given what we knew at the time."
Secondly, a FIGHTER JET? Talk about the wrong tool for the job! A fighter jet would be as helpful against an insurgent force with small arms as an ICBM. We had staff in the building, Carmine. A fighter jet armed with missiles would've put our people in harm's way. Who sends fighter jets to deal with a ground force that's occupying a building? You've got to be kidding me!
"Your debate to make your case against me hinges on the issue of 33 minutes?"
The case against you is rock solid.
You've provided debunked lies as fact and conspiracy theories in the absence of evidence. EVERY question you've asked so far has a known answer. You don't like the answers, so you continue to allege conspiracies.
It's quite simple. Your credibility is shot.
Kevin:
It was 9-11. Our tropps and installations in the Mediterraean should have been on high alert. Our fighter jets in Aviano Italy could have been over Bengahzi in one hour from the order to go. Didn't have to do anything except fly by/over. A 7 hour attack and fight would have ended much sooner. These are the facts. They are incontrovertible.
CarmineD
PS: On an up note at least you no longer making the absurd argument that Benghazi was the wheelhouse of the State Department. ;-)
The final, definitive word on assets deployed in Benghazi comes from Paul Wolfowitz, a conservative who sees through the Carmine smokescreen:
He writes:
The Consulate was overrun in a matter of minutes, before any help was possible.
A team that appears to have been CIA personnel deployed quickly (and bravely) from the Annex to the Consulate and rescued everyone they found alive there. (It's not clear whether Ambassador Stevens had already been taken by Libyans to the hospital or whether they simply failed to find him.)
A mainly CIA response force deployed quickly from Tripoli to reinforce the Annex and facilitate its successful evacuation.
Decision makers in Washington appear to have been leaning forward, as they should have been. The military's most capable rescue force, based on the East Coast, was deployed immediately (something that is very rarely done), but -- given the distances involved -- arrived at Sigonella only after the crisis was over.
Also, the European command (EUCOM) deployed its number one counter terrorism force, which was training in central Europe, as quickly as possible, but it arrived in Sigonella after the evacuation of the Annex was complete.
Other special forces deployed to Sigonella but arrived on the 12th after it was too late to make a difference in Benghazi.
There was no AC-130 gunship in the region.
The only drone available in Libya was an unarmed surveillance drone which was quickly moved from Darna to Benghazi, but the field of view of these drones is limited and, in any case, this one was not armed.
The only other assets immediately available were F-16 fighter jets based at Aviano, Italy. These aircraft might have reached Benghazi while the fight at the Annex was still going on, but they would have had difficulty pinpointing hostile mortar positions or distinguishing between friendly and hostile militias in the midst of a confused firefight in a densely populated residential area where there would have been a high likelihood of civilian casualties. While two more Americans were tragically killed by a mortar strike on the Annex, it's not clear that deploying F-16's would have prevented that. In any case, the decision not to do so was made by the tactical commander, General Ham, as it should have been.
Yet again, Carmine is overwhelmed with facts and data, rather than his conspiracy theories and blatant falshoods.
"The case against you is rock solid."
Yeah, Kevin, it hinges on 33 minutes of a day. I luv it!
CarmineD
"Our fighter jets in Aviano Italy could have been over Bengahzi in one hour from the order to go. Didn't have to do anything except fly by/over. A 7 hour attack and fight would have ended much sooner. These are the facts. They are incontrovertible.
Those are NOT the facts. This wasn't a 7 hour attack. It was two twenty-minute attacks separated by a 6 hour span.
The fighter jets in Aviano could not have been over Benghazi in an hour. This has been known since Dempsey testified:
"Other Republicans on the Committee joined McCain in questioning why the military didn't send F16s or AC-130 gunships to drive off the terrorists attacking Benghazi, but Dempsey and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who also testified, said there simply wasn't time and they lacked the intelligence to mount an effective response."
"Dempsey said there wasn't an AC-130 gunship within 1,000 miles of Benghazi and the nearest F16s at a base in Aviano, Italy, were not on standby alert and would not have reached Benghzi in time."
Again, you are misrepresenting facts. The only incontrovertible fact you've asserted is that we were attacked. Everything else has been either misrepresentation, misunderstanding or pathetic spin!
The only incontrovertible truth is your lack of credibility.
"The only other assets immediately available were F-16 fighter jets based at Aviano, Italy. These aircraft might have reached Benghazi while the fight at the Annex was still going on, but they would have had difficulty pinpointing hostile mortar positions or distinguishing between friendly and hostile militias in the midst of a confused firefight in a densely populated residential area where there would have been a high likelihood of civilian casualties. While two more Americans were tragically killed by a mortar strike on the Annex, it's not clear that deploying F-16's would have prevented that. In any case, the decision not to do so was made by the tactical commander, General Ham, as it should have been."
Just as I said. General Ham, in hindsight, made a bad call. It would have ended the seige in less than 7 hours. Ham should have been overruled by Dempsey/Panetta. He wasn't. Why not? These are the facts and they are incontrovertible.
CarmineD
"Those are NOT the facts. This wasn't a 7 hour attack. It was two twenty-minute attacks separated by a 6 hour span."
Really? You were there?
Perhaps the second 22 minute attack would never had occurred with a US fighter jet or 2 flying overhead rather than a drone?
CarmineD
Dempsey testified to that fact. In your "homework," you must have missed it.
"DEMPSEY: You know, it wasn't a seven-hour battle. It was two 20-minute battles separated by about six hours. The idea that this was one continuous event is just incorrect."
NEXT!
"Yeah, Kevin, it hinges on 33 minutes of a day. I luv it!"
Now you can't even do math correctly.
Attack began at 9:42.
Drone was directed to fly to Benghazi at 9:59.
You claimed it ARRIVED at Benghazi at 9:59. This is false.
Unarmed drone arrived at 11:10 pm, 88 minutes after the attack began.
You can't get anything right, can you?
Dempsey, like you, wasn't there. And so far we haven't heard and/or seen the written and verbal accounts from the eye witnesses who were.
These are the facts. They are incontrovertible.
CarmineD
"It would have ended the seige in less than 7 hours."
They had NO planes that could make it to Benghazi in 20 minutes, Carmine. You, yourself, admitted that. By the time the plane had arrived, the initial attack was OVER. Some staff were already dead from the initial attack. Again, this was widely reported.
Your complete ignorance on this is stunning. Really. I'm getting a much better picture of exactly where you're coming from. You're so misinformed, it's really quite sad.
Carmine,
John McCain accepted Dempsey's answer about the attack. Are you now saying that McCain was derelict in his duty?
It is sad Kevin, but not for the reasons you say.
Benghazi is a story that needs and will be told. Stay tuned.
CarmineD
"Carmine,
John McCain accepted Dempsey's answer about the attack. Are you now saying that McCain was derelict in his duty?"
Words Kevin. Not facts. Has Brennan the CIA appointee been confirmed by the Senate yet? Was Susan Rice as Sec of State?
Kevin the only one fooling himself on Benghazi here is you. You just don't know it.
CarmineD
"An unmanned drone was over there within 17 minutes of the first knowlwdge of the Benghazi attack."
FALSE. The drone arrived 88 minutes after the initial attack began.
"A 7 hour attack and fight would have ended much sooner."
FALSE. "DEMPSEY: You know, it wasn't a seven-hour battle. It was two 20-minute battles separated by about six hours. The idea that this was one continuous event is just incorrect."
"Our fighter jets in Aviano Italy could have been over Bengahzi in one hour from the order to go."
FALSE: "While two more Americans were tragically killed by a mortar strike on the Annex, it's not clear that deploying F-16's would have prevented that." The attack on the CIA annex occurred six hours AFTER the initial attack on the consulate, which itself was over 20 minutes after it began. NO aerial assets were capable of reaching the consulate during the initial attack.
You might want to explore the definition of 'incontrovertible.' You're using it wrong.
"Kevin the only one fooling himself on Benghazi here is you."
Says the guy who lied about a drone being over the consulate in 17 minutes... then backtracked and claimed he never said that... then admitted he DID say it.
Talk about fooling yourself...
"Words Kevin. Not facts."
You have provided no evidence to the contrary. Multiple published timelines, as well as testimony to the Senate, corroborate my claims.
You lied about a drone's whereabouts, then lied about lying about the drone's whereabouts, and now don't seem to understand that there were TWO attacks in Benghazi... one on the consulate and one on the CIA annex.
You claimed it was a seven hour "siege" when all testimony and published timelines prove that assertion to be false.
It seems you can't keep up with your own spin, Carmine. I can tell you're getting dizzy.
I was trying to ascertain the origins of this Birther to Benghazi madness and I think there are just the "Hillbillies" predetermined to follow any fallacy as long as it fits some bizarre conspiracy, ans then there are the higher functioning types that are typical right wing poster in America. We have witnessed here the public display in a overt way someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
According to this diagnostic manual, NPD is present when at least five of the following criteria are met:
1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2.Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
I think these traits are shared by several people here. One would hope they get help.
"And so far we haven't heard and/or seen the written and verbal accounts from the eye witnesses who were."
CONSPIRACY, right?!?
Nope:
"The U.S. effort in Benghazi was at its heart a CIA operation, according to officials briefed on the intelligence. Of the more than 30 American officials evacuated from Benghazi following the deadly assault, only seven worked for the State Department. Nearly all the rest worked for the CIA, under diplomatic cover, which was a principal purpose of the consulate, these officials said."
CIA agents... working under cover... and Carmine doesn't understand why they're not on The View!
Off to church while Carmine formulates a new conspiracy theory...
There are 3 sides to every historical event like Benghazi. The conservative media, the liberal media and the truth. To my knowledge only one media outlet was on the ground in Benghazi immediately after the sacking and murders. That is FOX. As I opined from the beginning, Bob Woodward, who tends toward the liberal media perspective like his newspaper the Washington Post, would be an excellent author for a book on Benghazi. He already, as a result of his first book about the Obama Administration [which you did not read], knows the entire cast of White House characters in the Obama presidency. If Woodward takes on the task, he will no doubt HAVE to do so in concert with Fox news, who was on ground in Benghazi reporting from the battle scene for weeks after 9-11. Americans would relish the idea of a book on the matter from Woodward. It makes perfect sense to me for the two sources, with Woodward taking the lead, to join forces to do it.
Recall Woodward won Pulitzers SO FAR for 2 events which shaped recent American history: Watergate and 9-11. And authored or coautored 11 Number 1 bestsellers in non-fiction. Benghazi, the DEFINING MILITARY MOMENT OF THE OBAMA FIRST TERM, is a logical finale to an award winning journalism career. Stay tuned. ;-)
CarmineD
""The U.S. effort in Benghazi was at its heart a CIA operation, according to officials briefed on the intelligence."
Certainly a far cry for you who said a few days that Benghazi was the wheelhouse of the State Department, Kevin.
And guess what? Who's up for CIA Head and has not been confirmed yet by the Senate? Brennan, the same guy who got the nod for Security Advisor from Obama, over Donilon who got passed up twice for Chief jobs and instead gets the lackey positions as deputy. Not just once but twice. First under General Jones, then under Brennan. Twice the deputy, never the Chief. ;-) And what makes it even better: Donilon wanted the Chief jobs both times! He lobbied for it twice and was passed over both times. What do they say about 3 times and you're out?
CarmineD
"I think these traits are shared by several people here. One would hope they get help."
Jeff:
I don't see Obama, Reid, and Pelosi taking your advice, although I think they and we would be best served if they did. I'm sure Dr. Phil would give them a special rate: The 3 stooges discount.
CarmineD
Carmine, it looks like you are -- in a DiFazian sort of way finally admitting you were wrong.
Good boy.
Most Americans, when they look at the first term of Obama's Presidency, would view the capture of Osama bin Laden, or the ending of the war in Iraq, as defining military moments of Obama's first term. Your assertion is an opinion and a distraction from the multitude of facts you've gotten wrong and ultimately irrelevant to what actually happened in Benghazi.
NEXT!
Jeff:
Until I'm proved wrong, I never say I'm sorry.
Kevin:
By now if you learned anything about me from these exchanges, it is that I'm not in the category of most Americans.
Victories don't define people, failings do. Most especially the way they handle them.
We haven't heard the last of Benghazi!
CarmineD
"Your assertion is an opinion and a distraction from the multitude of facts you've gotten wrong and ultimately irrelevant to what actually happened in Benghazi"
Kevin:
This applies equally to you on Benghazi as me. Thank you.
With one major exception: Benghazi as you stated here fallaciously was not the wheelhouse of the State Department. It is the DEFINING MILITARY MOMENT OF THE OBAMA FIRST TERM. When the final chapter is written on Benghazi, the facts will prove it.
CarmineD
News flash:
According to Chad and Mali news sources, not confirmed yet, a second Al Qaeda operative, responsible for the seize of the natural gas refinery in Africa was killed. The two Al Qaeda ringleaders now, after a little more than a month of the event, are dead if reports are correct. Gee, I wonder if the two killings were actually two separate missions with a 24 hour pause in between? LOL
CarmineD
Carmine has another bout of NPD:
"Jeff:
Until I'm proved wrong, I never say I'm sorry.
Kevin:
By now if you learned anything about me from these exchanges, it is that I'm not in the category of most Americans.
Victories don't define people, failings do. Most especially the way they handle them."
I say:
Carmine, Kevin has, for DAYS rendered you, and by extension, your opinions to be just plain mean spirited and ridiculous.
I have made your points of view to be shallow and foolish. The only place where you are proficient is in the volume of your posts. Even there it is - garbage in - garbage out.
Right, Obama is NOT defined by his victory in the election, but Romney (you never said you were sorry) is defined by his failing to win?
Jeff:
You're distorting your body from patting yourself on the back so much. Nothing new for you. You're very good at it. BUT, you really need another approach. You've used that one so much you've worn it out.
CarmineD
Looks like Pat Caddell and I are on the same wavelength on this one.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/politic...
Note Caddell's blog is March 1. If I'm correct I opined HERE that Woodward would be a prime candidate for the job several days before Caddell. What's that they say about great minds?
CarmineD
BTW, Caddell is a dyed in the wool Democrat and a darn good one.
CarmineD
I was right. I said it HERE a few days before Pat Caddell.
"I have to disagree with you. The murder of 4 Americans, at the hands of terrorists who after 5 months have still not been brought to justice [as the President said they would] is not off topic at the least let alone the most. It is and will be the topic of President Obama's first term. You, and others who share your ill-thought out beliefs, just don't know and realize it yet. I'll tell you who will make it so, or at least who I think will: Bob Woodward. Let's see if I'm right on both accounts, okay?
CarmineD" Feb 26, 2013 5:21 AM
Read more: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/feb...
"As much as I have always admired Bob Woodward and admire now him in the sequester fight and for his willingness to take on the White House, I cannot refrain from expressing my disappointment that this man, who did such a service for the country 40 years ago, has essentially taken himself off the boards of the Benghazi fiasco. I wish that if Woodward were to get in a fight, he would do it on an issue that really matters to the safety of the United States." Pat Caddell
Excerpted from the link I posted above.
These are the facts. They are incontrovertible.
CarmineD
Little did I know Woodward appeared on Hannity on October 9, 2012 to discuss Benghazi. I like Hannity. He is a nice guy. But I don't EVER watch his FOX show. Ever. If I knew Woodward was on, I would have made an exception.
Here is an excerpt between Hannity and Woodward on Benghazi. As I said, I didn't know this took place. I found it in my research.
Woodward answered:
"There's not evidence of that and I've for 40 years have covered too many of these things where sometimes there is a cover up, sometimes there are people lying at all kinds of levels. You have to get in there and get the details but I do agree with you that this should be examined in depth by somebody neutral in the media and the Congressional Committee should be looking at this.
Shorter Woodward: I knew Watergate and this is no Watergate... so far."
"So far?????" On October 12, 2012. Sounds like Woodward had an inkling of doubt even then just weeks after the event. I wonder what Woodward thinks now?
CarmineD
@Carmine....The only reason that the Benghazi story has any churn is that the ambassador was killed. If it had been a couple of security guards and stray staffers nobody would pay much attention. The incident has already fallen off the radar of all save a few conspiracy theorists. When you consider the repercussions of Beirut, Mogadishu,Mombasa, the Cole, et.al., Benghazi is a minor incident in a minor country which will be relegated to a historical footnote, if that.
Carmine, You are debating facts with people who have no facts. They are too lazy to think for themselves. Thus, they voted for and support Obama no matter what...
"By now if you learned anything about me from these exchanges, it is that I'm not in the category of most Americans."
Correct. Unlike most Americans, you allege there was a massive coverup on Benghazi. Like the 9/11 truthers, your poor understanding of the facts, coupled with your clear animus toward the administration, add up to an illogical and unproven allegation, nothing more.
Your unwillingness to explore what is already known about the attack just amplifies your ignorance.
You've been wrong about several crucial facts about Benghazi. When the facts are pointed out, you do not alter your opinion... you dig in.
That behavior, refusing to acknowledge fact, is proof your position is illogical. It is not borne of a clear understanding, but borne of ignorance and animus.
You've been wrong several times on the basic facts:
You claimed a massive conspiracy at the White House, yet have no evidence, other than your animus and hatred.
You asserted a drone arrived on site 17 minutes after the attack, yet it arrived more than an hour after the attack.
You asserted the President received, "zero discussions and briefings" after 5 pm, when there is proof there were briefings.
You asserted that "a 7 hour attack and fight would have ended much sooner" if a fighter jet had flown 1000 miles from Italy to Benghazi.
This is false, based on testimony from General Dempsey.
"DEMPSEY: You know, it wasn't a seven-hour battle. It was two 20-minute battles separated by about six hours. The idea that this was one continuous event is just incorrect."
You then claimed that "Our fighter jets in Aviano Italy could have been over Bengahzi in one hour from the order to go."
This is also false: "While two more Americans were tragically killed by a mortar strike on the Annex, it's not clear that deploying F-16's would have prevented that." The attack on the CIA annex occurred six hours AFTER the initial attack on the consulate, which itself was over 20 minutes after it began. NO aerial assets were capable of reaching the consulate during the initial attack.
Irrationality and animus prevent you from reevaluating your position and reinforce your conspiracy theory, Carmine.
"I found it in my research."
Sorry, this is just sad. I guess your research didn't include this tidbit about the Benghazi 'smoking gun' which Woodward dismissed...
"Woodward, appearing on the Sean Hannity show to discuss media coverage of Obama administration scandals, used the anecdote as an example of how he had tried to look into the story behind the Sept. 11 attack on an U.S. diplomatic outpost in Benghazi that left four Americans dead, including the ambassador."
"Some people close to Romney, a couple of weeks ago, just showed up at my house and said that they had somebody in a very sensitive position in the U.S. government who was willing to meet with me and give me information about Benghazi," Woodward told Hannity."
"After the source failed to show at several meetings, Woodward said he finally met the person and was disappointed by the quality of the information."
"He finally showed up and he didn't have anything where he had any firsthand knowledge," Woodward said. "He said you ought to talk to his person and that person and so forth."
Woodward looked into it... even had the Romney campaign deliver someone to him, and Woodward himself dismissed it, Carmine.
Don't let that fact dissuade you from your conspiracy theory.
Carmine:
Keep on shouting Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi from the rooftops. Eventually a zookeeper will put you back in your cage.
Jeff, Kevin:
I don't allege anything. Like Woodward, I recommend the whole matter of Benghazi be investigated thoroughly. Not by those in government responsible and culpable for in. But by those who have a vested interest in uncovering the facts. The ARB report in the final analysis is the government policing itself.
The elements of any cover up START with "deny, diminish, and blame." They are typical signs of those in power impugning the call for the facts and truth. When I see those signs, I ALWAYS ask why. And the answer is always the same. I opine that's the reason these are the tell tale signs.
CarmineD
"Benghazi is a minor incident in a minor country which will be relegated to a historical footnote, if that." Pat Hayes
When 4 American heroes give their lives for their country, it's sad to think this, let alone print and say with such blase. It cheapens human life. And sends the message "we don't care." Shame on us when we sink to this level.
CarmineD
"Carmine, You are debating facts with people who have no facts. They are too lazy to think for themselves. Thus, they voted for and support Obama no matter what..." Mark Anthony
Thank you. I totally agree with you. For a President who won ONLY 53 percent of the popular vote, and lost 47 percent in the process, the President's supporters are deaf, dumb, and blind to his failings and shortcomings.
CarmineD
On a positive note Mark Anthony, at least over the last week [a very bad one for the President] the liberal media, up to now an ally of the President, like the Washinton Post and NY Times, have pushed back against alot of the Obama/his Administration about Sequestration. The press has gotten tougher with Jay Carney too as a result. So, perhaps the mainstream media has finally seen the light. I'm an eternal optimist and hope springs.
CarmineD
Carmine, your buddy Woodward has been a republican shill for years:
"The website Firedoglake chronicled the developments in a pungent essay:
Apparently General McChrystal and the Petraeus cabal aren't willing to wait for their Commander in Chief to set the strategy. Prior to the President's interviews, McChrystal's people were already telling journalists that they were "impatient with Obama" as Nancy Youssef reported. This "Power Play," as I mentioned last night, included a veiled threat that McChrystal would resign if he didn't get his way.
And sure enough, just hours after the Commander in Chief was on the airwaves, somehow McChrystal's classified report hit the Washington Post compliments of Bob Woodward no less.
Wow, what a coincidence!
This episode highlights a crucial aspect of Bob Woodward's career that has been ignored by most of the media. Simply put, Woodward is the military's man, and always has been.
For almost four decades, under cover of his supposedly "objective" reporting, Woodward has represented the viewpoints of the military and intelligence establishments. Often he has done so in the context of complex inside maneuvering of which he gives his readers little clue. He did it with the book Veil, about CIA director William Casey, in which he relied on Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, a rival of Casey's, as his key source. (Inman, from Texas, was closely identified with the Bush faction of the CIA.) The book was based in part on a "deathbed interview" with Casey that Casey's widow and former CIA guards said never took place.
Typically, Woodward uses information he gets from his main sources to gain access to others. He then gets more secrets from them, and so on down the line. His stature--if that's the word--as a repository of this inside dope has been key to the relentless success machine that his media colleagues have perpetuated. The New York Times review of his Obama book laid out the formula:
If this information is revealing about the interplay of personality and policy and politics in Washington; some of it is just self-serving spin. As he's done in his earlier books, Mr. Woodward acknowledges that attributions of thoughts, conclusions or feelings to a person were in some cases not obtained directly from that person, but from notes or from a colleague whom the person told--a questionable but increasingly pop/ular method, which means the reader should take the reconstructed scenes with a grain of salt.
And then, thanks to all this attention, and even with that grain of salt, the book went to #1.
But might there be more to Woodward and his oeuvre than just questionable work practices? Well, let's see. Woodward granted former CIA director George H.W. Bush a pass by excluding him from accounts of Iran-Contra, which occurred while the notorious intriguer was vice president under the notoriously hands-off Ronald Reagan. (When I asked Woodward about this for my book Family of Secrets, he replied, "Bush was - What was it he said at the time? I was out of the loop?") Later Woodward got exclusive access to H.W.'s son. He spent more time with George W. Bush than did any other journalist, writing several largely sympathetic books about his handling of Iraq and Afghanistan before playing catch-up with prevailing sentiment and essentially reversing course.
Carmine cynically asserts:
"On a positive note Mark Anthony, at least over the last week [a very bad one for the President] the liberal media, up to now an ally of the President, like the Washinton Post and NY Times, have pushed back against alot of the Obama/his Administration about Sequestration. The press has gotten tougher with Jay Carney too as a result. So, perhaps the mainstream media has finally seen the light. I'm an eternal optimist and hope springs."
I say:
You are rooting against the president and calling it a positive? Claiming to be an optimist?
I think you are decidedly un-American in your public thoughts.
Carmine expecting the majority to bend to the will of the minority said this:
"Thank you. I totally agree with you. For a President who won ONLY 53 percent of the popular vote, and lost 47 percent in the process, the President's supporters are deaf, dumb, and blind to his failings and shortcomings."
I say:
And you have seen the light and will save us all! When Bush won by a hanging chad, should he have gotten a political vasectomy?
Your logic is out of whack in the universe. There must be a wire or two that got crossed long ago.
I wonder who took your happiness away from you. There is no joy in what you post, just written middle fingers to everyone with a brain and a conscience.
Jeff:
You say I'm rooting against the President. Not true. But I expect him to be in his own words the most transparent President and Administration of recent US history. He and his Administration has not.
CarmineD
PS: Today, Secretary Of State John Kerry could not answer questions as to the reasons that the survivors of Benghazi have not been invited to hearings, inquiries, and interviews. Do you know?
Jeff:
Have you read Bob Woodward's book: "Obama's Wars?" I asked you this before but you never answered. I opine you didn't but correct me if I'm wrong.
As I mentioned, President Obama gave unfettered access and approval to Woodward to write the book.
CarmineD
"I think you are decidedly un-American in your public thoughts."
Jeff:
Let me be the judge of that not you. I served my country in the military and as a civilian for over 40 years. Have you?
CarmineD
@ Carmine.....well, they weren't heroes, having done nothing heroic.In fact, it could be said that it was the ambassadors irresponsible behavior that got them all killed...traveling without proper security and trekking off to a consulate [if it can generously be called that] in hostile territory with minimal travel plans and security. Having been in anti-American countries and around mobs where diplomats, staff and American citizens have been injured, detained and tortured, I'm well aware of how those incidents have been remembered. Except for scoring political points, they have not!
As to your 10:55AM post you do realize that your employment in government and your time as a union member can be seen as nothing more than living off the public tit and now collecting a large public pension at taxpayer expense. Oh,and if you worked in Jersey you were obviously a member of a corrupt mob-influenced union.
Paranoia concerning foreign and domestic threats has been a cornerstone of the American psyche since the 1600's.
I'm surprised that the perceived threats are limited to only three. 'Perceived threats', such as 'Satan is attacking America' from Rick Santorum should be included as a fourth threat, alongside lead based paint on baby strollers.
We were told that if Vietnam fell to the Communists, all of South East Asia would be lost. ~55,000 dead American soldiers later, the US Military pulled out of South Vietnam and nothing of the sort ever happened...and the memory of this is non-existent. The Military Industrial Complex will kill any countable number of US soldiers to further it's economic security.
To hell with all these threats - they are taking away my time as a tourist of the world, a kindred spirit to NWA.
Pat Hayes you are as wrong as you can be, just like you are with Senator Menedez in NJ.
My gov't service often required me to put my country and service first before family. At all hours of the day and night. In places away from home and family where I didn't want to go and do things I didn't want to do. That's heroic in my eyes just like the 4 Americans in Benghazi doing a job that required them to put their lives on the line.
As a Chief Union Steward for AFSCME in Washington DC I broke ranks with management, of which I was one for many years. At the request of higher authorities, to root out corruption and incompetence in senior executive management. It likely stiffled my career advancement and cost me several appoinments to the Senior Executive Service.
While I paid into Social Security as a self-employed family business owner and operator and am eligible to collect it, I don't. It's my gift to Uncle Sam. I live off a modest gov't retirement ONLY, so as not to be labelled a double dipper. All I need is one pension not two.
How about you? What have you done to match the 4 lives of the dead heroes in Benghazi?
CarmineD
Carnine said:
"Jeff:
Have you read Bob Woodward's book: "Obama's Wars?" I asked you this before but you never answered. I opine you didn't but correct me if I'm wrong.
As I mentioned, President Obama gave unfettered access and approval to Woodward to write the book.
CarmineD"
I say:
When you begin, without spin, answering all of the questions I pose to you, I will return the favor.
Carmine said:
""I think you are decidedly un-American in your public thoughts."
Jeff:
Let me be the judge of that not you. I served my country in the military and as a civilian for over 40 years. Have you?
CarmineD"
I say:
There likely was a point you were a good egg. You have become a jaded, cynical, judgmental rotten egg. My three year old is a better American than you now are.
One is reminded of the old saying regarding "let me be the judge" that goes like this: "If you have to say you're a lady, you ain't"
NPD Alert:
"My gov't service often required me to put my country and service first before family. At all hours of the day and night. In places away from home and family where I didn't want to go and do things I didn't want to do. That's heroic in my eyes just like the 4 Americans in Benghazi doing a job that required them to put their lives on the line."
I wonder what the movie will be titled, possibly "True (Grit) Accounting" or "Life with the lower level bureaucratic hero"?
Playing the heroes role? Justin Bieber? Nah, it would wreck the kids career.
@JeffFromVegas....the more mundane the job the more grandiose the fantasies. Cape and mask available for $29.95.
"@JeffFromVegas....the more mundane the job the more grandiose the fantasies. Cape and mask available for $29.95."
Try badge, credentials and a weapon to be correct.
CarmineD
"There likely was a point you were a good egg. You have become a jaded, cynical, judgmental rotten egg. My three year old is a better American than you now are."
Jeff:
As usual you divert, digress and deceive rather than answer a simple questioon about yourself and your service to our country.
How would you like to be separated from your 3 year old daughter, like I was, for months at a time on government duty all around the country. Missing the important events in her life? And doing so for many years while she is growing up? Then have yokels with no clue tell you that you lived off the government "tit." LOL
Senator Menendez lives off the government tit. I worked for a living. The 4 heroes of Benghazi died for it.
CarmineD
""True (Grit) Accounting"
Somebody has to audit black operations and dollars. And not everybody can. Requires a security clearance. A very high one. You ever had a security clearance?
CarmineD
Newsflash:
Senate, Rand Paul, is filibustering John Brennan's nomination for head of the CIA. Reasons: Benghazi and drones. Surprise, surprise!
CarmineD
Whats ironic about the filibuster: The Government in DC is closed down due to the weather. More ironic.... not a snowflake is on the ground YET and OPM cancelled and shut down all government operations over 3 hours ago. LOL
CarmineD
Sequestration or snowquestration! ;-)
I'm sure glad I retired over 6 years ago.
CarmineD
Carmine said:
"How would you like to be separated from your 3 year old daughter, like I was, for months at a time on government duty all around the country. Missing the important events in her life? And doing so for many years while she is growing up? Then have yokels with no clue tell you that you lived off the government "tit."
I say:
It seems like a choice you made to be involved in this world with cloaks and daggers. That said, it appears you have had a rare human moment when talking about what you traded for a paycheck. I believe you believe it. I don't want to comment about your daughter any more than to declare what I just did.
You added "divert, digress and deceive" to my laundry list.
Divert: Verb - Cause (someone or something) to change course or turn from one direction to another. (of a vehicle or person) Change course.
Guilty as charged. I am trying to change you back into a good American.
Digress: Verb - Leave the main subject temporarily in speech or writing.
Occasionally I do this, in virtually every post you make there is an anti-Obama reference. You are the queen of digression here at the Sun Website.
Deceive: Verb - (of a person) Cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.
(of a thing) Give a mistaken impression: "the area may seem to offer nothing of interest, but don't be deceived".
Nah Carmine, I have my challenges in life as we all do, but I have never told a lie here on this website. If you weren't doing this on a regular basis I may have been offended.
So you were about 49.5% correct. 33% of the 49.5% was not due to honesty on your part, but was due to miscalculation of the meaning of a word. This is better than you usually do.
Jeff:
If you can get back to terra firma rather than outer space, I direct you and your cohorts to page 8A of today's Sun. Article above the fold: "Brennan draws closer to CIA post."
Read it, especially the last paragraph. It says: "Although Brennan has made it out of the committee, republicans have treatened to hold up his nomination unless the White House supplies them with classified information detailing the Obama administration actions immediately following the September 11 attack on the US diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya that killed U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens."
Where are the survivors of Benghazi? Why aren't they invited to hearings, inquiries and interviews?
And you and others here think and say Benghazi, Libya is off the radar screen. Seems that radar screen is getting bigger and bigger.
3 elements that accompany all coverups: Deny, diminish, and blame. When I witness these, I always ask the same question: Why? The answer is always the same. I opine that's the reason they are the tell tale signs of a classic cover up.
Too bad the US lost these 4 American heroes.
CarmineD
"Guilty as charged. I am trying to change you back into a good American."
Jeff:
Save your time and effort on me and use it on yourself.
I have awards, certificates, medals, pins, photos etc scanning a 40 year period from people more important than you attesting to the fact that I am a good American. Including a government pension for having been one. ;-)
CarmineD
By the mid 1700s, a Catholic Priest could be arrested and put in jail for appearing in a number of American Colonies. So what is the paranoia now? Too many elected officials? Oh SMJ!. Another threat to worry about.
Carmine said:
"Read it, especially the last paragraph. It says:
"Although Brennan has made it out of the committee, republicans have threatened to hold up his nomination unless the White House supplies them with classified information detailing the Obama administration actions immediately following the September 11 attack on the US diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya that killed U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens."
Where are the survivors of Benghazi? Why aren't they invited to hearings, inquiries and interviews?
And you and others here think and say Benghazi, Libya is off the radar screen. Seems that radar screen is getting bigger and bigger.
3 elements that accompany all coverups: Deny, diminish, and blame. When I witness these, I always ask the same question: Why? The answer is always the same. I opine that's the reason they are the tell tale signs of a classic cover up.
Too bad the US lost these 4 American heroes."
I say:
The hold up came over the answer demanded by the lightweight Rand Paul regarding drones. I watched via c-spang.org a lot of the filibuster. This Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are about the worst politicians I can remember in the last 50 odd years on the national stage. Hitler and Ayn Rand and BAD OBAMA, oh my!
The survivors of Benghazi have all been threatened with having too read your inane posts as punishment if they talk. They read a few and decided it was best to disappear.
Radar screen? Benghazi? When this loses the last of its traction you will move onto the next faux Obama kangaroo court incident and try to catch him there.
Cue the twilight zone theme doo doo doo doo.
Here are the six elements of a conspiracy theory:
First, choose an Event (Benghazi)
1. Appeal to precedent
2. Ruling elite
3. Disturbing question
4. Dedicated group of truth-seekers
5. Expert endorsement
6. Suggestion of imminent threat
You have adequately covered all six points OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
Doo doo doo doo...
About the 4 Americans, your sincerity seems to be missing, it seems they have become your sword to try to decapitate Obama with.
Carmine, chest puffed full of self praise utters:
"Jeff:
Save your time and effort on me and use it on yourself.
I have awards, certificates, medals, pins, photos etc scanning a 40 year period from people more important than you attesting to the fact that I am a good American. Including a government pension for having been one. ;-)"
I say:
As I have said, you were likely a good egg at one time. History is replete with older men believing the medals on their chests and the awards on the wall give them the right to talk down to and in some cases betray their country.
They lose themselves, some become grace filled and tend to be model citizens, other become prideful, boastful, contentious, cynical, even mean.
As this thread continues you are beginning to show yourself to have lost the virtues of your old self. You can consider yourself lucky I am here to get you back to a position of grace.
"You can consider yourself lucky I am here to get you back to a position of grace."
Jeff:
Like most psycho pablum babblers like you, it's easier to do the latter [give advice] than the former [follow it].
The issue is Benghazi, the 4 dead American heroes, and the appearance of a cover up by the highest levels of the US government. You said it was the youtube video! Remember?
CarmineD
Carmine said:
"Jeff:
Like most psycho pablum babblers like you, it's easier to do the latter [give advice] than the former [follow it].
The issue is Benghazi, the 4 dead American heroes, and the appearance of a cover up by the highest levels of the US government. You said it was the youtube video! Remember?
CarmineD"
I say:
Calling me an infantile psychotic babbler means I must be doing the right thing. I don't need much advice, but good advice is priceless. I wish you had some to offer. It would be appreciated.
THE ISSUE is a better America, YOUR issue is BENGHAZi BENGHAZI BENGHAZI.
YouTube video, some guys hunting Americans, A deadly political statement to the leaders of Libya? The first reports out of any conflict are susceptible to many reasons and temporary realities.
If there was an appearance in some eyes of a coverup, those appearances are gone now. The white house has been very open in releasing information. And I really doubt I said it was 100% with certainty a video that fueled these murders and even if I did the moment you stop watching the video and pick up arms you become a terrorist.
A terrorist group executed 4 Americans.
Not the BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI Obama/Hillary/Hagel/Brennen coverup conspiracy against former black ops accountants that are heroes that movies should be made about the super duper whopper of a conspiracy.
Now, carry on with your daily swiftboating...
Jeff:
Let me recap your posts here so you can stay focused.
First, you have been wrong on Benghazi since the beginning and still.
Second, you impugn and belittle Robert Woodward, probably the most famous mainstream media newsman and journalist of the last 40 years. With a stack of covted awards to prove it. But haven't read his books.
You attack real American heroes with documented proof of their love and service for country. 4 by giving their lives in Benghazi. You can't/won't provide any evidence for your patriotism.
You are like the cheating spouse who gets caught time after time year after year and promises to reform but never does. You refuse to do anything about it and deny the problem. Then, when confronted with the prima facia evidence says that the constant nagging drives you away.
If you were an ostrich with your head in the sand, I could understand this behavior. But you're not are you? Pretty soon we'll have to pump daylight into you because your head is so far down in a hole.
CarmineD
Carmine:
A recap as real as "Alice in Wonderland", there was a website that you used in the past that awarded "Pinocchio's" that ultimately got too PC and was not credible enough as to be cited on a regular basis.
I need to award you 8 1/2 "Pinocchio's" for your last post. Not right on Benghazi? Still? You've got Benghazi fever and it shows. There is little to get "wrong" about on Benghazi.
If one follows your logic you should be screaming 10 times louder for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice to be hung in the public square.
I thought Woodward lost it around the time of "The Brethren" and have not really thought his formulaic books worthy of my time, sue me.
Attack what heroes? The four who dies? Never have, put down your wine glass, you've had too much. Talking about "Carmine The Hero"? Yeah, I think you are a political buffoon.
My Patriotism? Compared to yours? You CONSTANTLY hammer Obama, the guy who is ending, in a way that will not jeopardize the American economy, two wars of choice, who has made the choice to utilize drones, rather than the bodies of pimple faced 19 year old in the war on terror, who killed bin Laden when given the chance? Obama also saved our economy and GM, and you want to hoist him on your petard because of some incorrect remarks (later clarified) on Sunday morning TV shows? Not only is my level of patriotism higher, you appear anti-American in comparison.
Cheating spouse? Psychobabble? Me? nah, that is you.
Ostrich? More like a giraffe looking down on your little meerkat series of conspiracy tunnels.
Jeff:
From the deterioration in your thinking based on your posts here, you look, sound, and must feel like the only fire plug at the Westminister Dog Kennel show. ;-)
CarmineD
Carmine:
"Cheating spouses, dogs peeing on me, psycho pablum babblers, Deny, diminish, and blame, divert, digress and deceive, deaf, dumb, and blind , It is the DEFINING MILITARY MOMENT OF THE OBAMA FIRST TERM. When the final chapter is written on Benghazi, the facts will prove it". in the immortal words of Iggy Pop "Blah Blah Blah".
As I have shown you ever since I started flushing your snarky opinions down the toilet (every time I might add), it has to be so lonely at the end of the day being a spokesman for the republican point of view.
Giving the finger to everyone you dislike feels good for a moment, but at the end of the day, you know, and I know you know, that you are just giving the world the finger.
Jeff:
I sincerely hope that you did not pay for any of your education, because if you did, you got cheated.
CarmineD
Carmine,
I am sure you paid for very little, if any of my education, on the other hand, me, and millions of other Americans have paid your salary and your retirement benefits, as well as your medicare benefits.
I think you can see where this could lead.
However, I just will say I hope and pray that the number of civil servants like you are close to zero, and I hope we have a better filtration system in place so the citizens of this wonderful, yet flawed (you're still HERE?) country I share with you never pay anyone's salary that thinks like you.
So, quit offering up your daily dose of carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, etc. with salts, cells sloughed off as the digesta went through the digestive tract, some urea, mucus, as well as cellulose, lignin and hemicellulose and rejoin the United States of America.
Jeff:
Your flaming rhetoric masks deep rooted personal insecurities. Or you're totally nuts.
CarmineD
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Carmine, flaming?
"Flaming, also known as bashing, is hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, often involving the use of profanity.
Flaming usually occurs in the social context of an Internet forum, Internet Relay Chat (IRC), Usenet, by e-mail, game servers such as Xbox Live or PlayStation Network, and on video-sharing websites. It is frequently the result of the discussion of heated real-world issues such as politics, religion, and philosophy, or of issues that polarize subpopulations, but can also be provoked by seemingly trivial differences.
Deliberate flaming, as opposed to flaming as a result of emotional discussions, is carried out by individuals known as flamers, who are specifically motivated to incite flaming. These users specialize in flaming and target specific aspects of a controversial conversation, and are usually more subtle than their counterparts. Their counterparts are known as trolls who are less "professional" and write obvious and blunt remarks to incite a flame war, as opposed to the more subtle, yet precise flamers. Some websites even cater to flamers and trolls, by allowing them a free environment, such as Flame-Wars forum."
Pot, meet kettle.
Totally nuts eh? Totally nuts? You have me confused with someone else, Here is the real Totally Nuts: http://totallynutsblog.blogspot.com/
Whoever told you to be yourself, gave you the worse advice possible. Unless you enjoy not having friends.
CarmineD
Did you mean to say "worst" or "worse"?
You still have more venom to go, keep at it, all I see is Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi in America's rear view mirror.
You get wronger and more insulting by the day.
Typical of you.
Not to fear Jeff. Oddballs and misfits can still have great lives. Don't give up yet. Although you are burning daylight.
Carmine D
Carmine,
You have been outclassed, outsmarted, and thoroughly debunked.
All you have left is snarky one liners.
Here is some reading for you:
http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesear...
http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesear...
Oh Susanna!
You're melting...
I use to have a pet just like you. It was a porcupine! I acquired it out of sympathy.
CarmineD
Carmine, we had an uncle in the family like you. He disappeared and no one looked for him. He was rather weird.
After being around you, he'd be a breath of fresh air.
I learned a lesson about friendship from that porcupine. Don't make friends with big rats who have prickly skin. When you least expect, they will bite and/or stick you. With you as family, I can understand why your uncle left.
CarmineD
The quills from a porcupine are only released when they feel threatened. If treated with respect porcupines never release their quills.
Not surprising your pet rat attacked you, even when you think you're being friendly you're kind of condescending. I think a better companion for you would be a kinkajou - it would cut down on the volume of your posts and the noises that would be emanating from your house would warn your neighbors that a crazy man lives there.
The kinkajou may slow down your research on your book "Benghazi - How Obama Ruined America", but don't worry, you'll need to self publish anyway, no publisher would pay for that extreme fiction offered up as truth. I am sure you're used to other forms of self "promotion" during your months of separation from your family.
You're tap dancing again rather than moon walking. Get them right: Pelosi is the porcupine and Reid is the rat. You can decide where you fit in.
CarmineD
Carmine, as usual you have the DC rodents all mislabeled.
Pelosi is a chipmunk, Reid is a gopher for the NRA, Boehner is a gerbil with a gin bottle, Ryan is a hamster repeating himself over and over, Ted Cruz is the porcupine and the two senators from Kentucky are both the rats.
Alan Grayson is the eager beaver and Ashley Judd is the chinchilla.
You? You're just a mouse.
The mouse that roared!
CarmineD
Yes, you are a legend in your own mind. The reality is however that you are the mouse that bored.
My mind is the only one that counts. That's my reality. What's yours?
CarmineD
Your myopia is on display here daily. It is a curse, but ignorance is bliss...
One man's curse is another man's cure. The shephards knew they didn't know anything and the wise men knew they didn't know everything. Both were full of bliss at the birth and sight of the Messiah. Then, there's you. LOL
CarmineD
Carmine:
Baby Jesus jokes at someone else's expense?
Is that part of your class you teach those kids at Sunday School?
And you wonder why the Catholics are thought of so poorly.
The joke is on you!
CarmineD
Carmine, Jeff, Kevin: may we recall these quantitative posts particularly when I get wound up?
Roslenda:
I can't speak for the others, thank goodness, but as for me "But of course." Anything for another believer in truth and justice and the American way!
CarmineD
Who pushed the Youtube video?
This is the big deal? The conspiracy to end all conspiracies? Who came up with some misdirection or badly drawn talking points?
Casuistry as the basis for government cover up/conspiracies is bizarre.
You were such a proud little boy announcing the 1/2 birthday of Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi yesterday. I felt like patting you on the head before you went to play in the sand box.
Actually.... I was remembering the deaths of 4 American heroes and the fact that nothing has been done about it! If that is sand box play to you, then pat yourself on the head......with a sledge hammer to knock some sense into it.
CarmineD
Roslenda,
You are always welcome to comment on anything, I just fast forward past your insight on teachers and illegal aliens.
Carmine said he won't speak for me, thank goodness, I wouldn't want the male version of Sarah Palin speaking for me.
Carmine is slower than a speeding donut, more powerful than a gnat, able to sidestep tall piles of dog poo in a single bound. The infant of New Jersey is now the Man of a million empty words: SuperBoringPoster! To best be in a position to use his mundane powers in a never-ending battle for fiction and injustice, SuperBoringPoster has assumed the disguise of Carmine DiFazio, ill-mannered poster for a great metropolitan newspaper.
Jeff:
Your wisdom sinks into a dark hole and leaves when you have a BM. Try eating upside down.
CarmineD
Carmine, you are shooting blanks.
Or it's a cap gun, occasionally loud, but infantile. Like poo jokes.
Any Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi paranoia for the day? Or are those kooks deserting you too?
I heard the survivors of the attack have all been put in the witness protection program to keep folks like you away from them, this is just a rumor and unsubstantiated. This will help keep The Washington times, Townhall.com, FixedNews, and you from turning on them if they don't hate Obama enough
Your mind is blank for the reason I told you above. See...you forgot already. For the reason I told you above.
CarmineD
Carmine:
You are getting so lame there is nothing left to quote, catch up or lob me another underhand girly girl pitch.
You guys in Jersey likely played slow pitch softball anyway...
Actually Italy, Palermo, Sicily where men are men. How about you...Candyland?
CarmineD
Make up your mind, did you grow up in a house with a hole in the ground for a toilet, poorer than poor in New Jersey, or Palermo, Italy?
Both, we brought a little bit of the old country here to the new. How about you...locked in the penthouse watching MTV all your life?
CarmineD
Carmine said:
Both, we brought a little bit of the old country here to the new. How about you...locked in the penthouse watching MTV all your life?
CarmineD"
I say:
You may have had a rougher beginning than I did. Where I grew up everything South of me was farmland and acres and acres of Corn fields and everything north of us was the city.
We knew every family for blocks around us, and families breaking up was non-existent. Our parents were quiet racists (They never revealed their earlier dislike of others till we were adults) and while we never were around minorities, we were never taught to hate them.
We learned on the basketball courts as we played pick up games as teenagers to have respect for people of different skin color.
Now it will behoove my 3 year old daughter to learn Spanish. Life changes you, and you change your life.
Do you want me to apologize for having had a great childhood? Forget it, my parents treated us well, we saw America every summer and the trip that captivated me the most was the one where we went to Washington DC. That trip is what leads me to these pages. Standing in the senate awed me. Watching it today -- on C-Span hearing Rand Paul warn us that we "Could" elect an Adolph Hitler -- sickens me. It was a shame, clarity on drones is needed.
I take my blessings as a way to enhance the country I live in. You, it seems, are always trying to belittle, by volume of posts, and bullying, people who think you are an ideologue at best, a numskull (charitably) at worst.
It still gives you no reason to be impolitic.
Just as I opined. White privilege upbringing. Never served your country in the military or as an Americorps Vista volunteer.
CarmineD
Carmine:
Let us for a moment accept your "Opine-ing as true (it is laced with incorrect assumptions) and fodder for discussion.
Following the logic of generalized assumptions I should then assume you to have been a not so bright member of the mafia who ignored law unless it suited them and would whack people in a twisted judge, jury, executioner style of street law.
I am sure there are ex-neighbors of yours who view the world as ready for greatness, like I do just as there are ex-neighbors of mine who share your dim bulb lack of acuity towards the world.
Then, I would be as superfluous as you.
You people who make sweeping generalizations are what the famed economist Paul Krugman calls "Flimflam Men".
"Way back in 2010, when everybody in Washington seemed determined to anoint Representative Paul Ryan as the ultimate Serious, Honest Conservative, I pronounced him a flimflam man. Even then, his proposals were obviously fraudulent: huge cuts in aid to the poor, but even bigger tax cuts for the rich, with all the assertions of fiscal responsibility resting on claims that he would raise trillions of dollars by closing tax loopholes (which he refused to specify) and cutting discretionary spending (in ways he refused to specify)."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/opinio...
Sorry Jeff. As much as they tried, I was on the other side: Good. Just as well too. I never liked getting dirty on their side.
BTW, yesterday was the 4o anniversary of the release of John McCain from Hotel Hanoi. Did you know that when the North Viet Cong give him a chance to leave the prison due to his famous father, McCain said "no." He didn't want to leave his fellow American prisoners because of his white privileged background.
Carmine D
Hey Carmine:
I never tarred you with that brush, said it was wrong to typecast people.
I said you do it.
And I am right.
And you are wrong.
Same old story.
One day you say you are left next you're right. Can't make up your mind!
Carmine D