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Saturday, Feb. 2, 2013 | 2 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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Where do we draw the line? When are they going to let me buy a shoulder-fired rocket launcher? A well-regulated militia needs shoulder-fired rocket launchers and fully automatic .50-caliber machine guns. It’s my right under the Second Amendment. When will those liberals in Washington understand that rocket launchers don’t bring down 747s; people do. Right, NRA?
William,
An absurd argument.
Reductio ad absurdum is the technique of reducing an argument or hypothesis to absurdity, by pushing the argument's premises or conclusions to maximum limits and showing how ridiculous the consequences would be, thus disproving or discrediting the argument.
Apparently Williiam need a missile for hunting and protecting his home
This is stupid what would be left of the deer that William is shooting
What is Williams point - this is absurd
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The new Senator Diane Feinstein's bill bans the sale or transfer of over 157 hand guns, rifles, shotguns, and assault weapons.
A background check will be required every time you buy a single bullet.
The Democrats have hand guns on the list now. No wonder even Harry Reid will not vote for it
The scam of Senate Diane Feinstein's bill is the exemption for all the guns and clip already in circulation in America and it exempt buying over 900 named guns restricting only 157 guns.
---
But worst then that - no penalties for criminals having guns and no help for the mentally ill.
Like it or not, agree with it or not, the facts about gun controls are clearly on the side of the NRA. It wins the arguments made against it on the merits of the evidence. As soon as anti-gun rights people realize this and move on, the better likelihood for a reasonable debate on both sides with reforms. Trust me, RPG's will never be allowed under the Second Amendment. Not because it fails on the merits of the facts because it doesn't. "Right to carry and bear" applies to RPG's. But because it [RPG's] fails at common sense.
CarmineD
"When are they going to let me buy a shoulder-fired rocket launcher?"
Possibly when pigs fly.
This is what we need to do across the nation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57...)
Well done William, well done!
Where and when do we draw the line? You'll know why we have the Second Amendment if the political winds blow in the direction of despotism.
Most NRA reasoning could apply to RPGs and 50 cal fully automatic machine guns. Common sense tells us that the words; The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed shouldn't include hand held rocket launchers that could bring down a 747. Wait....the NRA and common sense doesn't sound right together...nevermind
"Where do we draw the line? When are they going to let me buy a shoulder-fired rocket launcher?"
Bacon -- because your letter isn't a serious one, expect no serious answers. To me all you proved is how profoundly ignorant you are of what it means to be a citizen of this republic.
"Like it or not, agree with it or not, the facts about gun controls are clearly on the side of the NRA. . .Right to carry and bear" applies to RPG's. But because it [RPG's] fails at common sense."
CarmineD -- actually those parts of our Constitutions say "keep and bear." Big difference. Your point overall is good -- it hinges on how the courts define "Arms." I've seen decisions in other states' high courts including billy clubs and sawed-off shotguns in that respect, one of them defended a convicted felon caught with a knife.
Overall this whole debate is about whittling down a fundamental liberty -- self-defense and militias -- to yet another one requiring government permission. Most fools posting mocking letters like Bacon's fail to realize attacking the Bill of Rights isn't going to end with the Second Amendment.
"The foundation of the freedoms we enjoy as Americans is the U.S. Constitution, the longest surviving constitution of any nation in history. To be civically unaware is to diminish our freedom, but knowing our history makes us all better Americans." -- George Nethercutt Jr., former Congressman in his book "In Tune with America"
"CarmineD -- actually those parts of our Constitutions say "keep and bear." " @ Killer B
You are absolutely correct and that's exactly what I meant. Thank you.
I always know if I misstate a fact, and I do on occasion, that you will be here to set me straight.
CarmineD
"I always know if I misstate a fact, and I do on occasion, that you will be here to set me straight."
CarmineD -- only if it's something important. "Keep and bear" has so much more meaning than "carry and bear," especially when criminally accused.
"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." -- Democritus (460-370 B.C.E.)
A thought about weapons, Young Teens
William,
When will we start addressing the factors that cause higher homicide rates among black and Hispanic youths? According to the CDC, males ages 15-19 years old had the following homicide rates per 100,000:
Whites = 3.4
Blacks = 69.1
Hispanics = 24.8
Asian/Pacific Islander = 5.2
Where do we draw the line between baseless blame and fixing real problems we face in society? Lets look closer at the factors causing homicide rates among youths. Fatherless teenage males? Poor graduation rates? Limited economic advancement opportunities including trade schools? Do we need to supplement funding of big brother organizations who could step in to help mentor children from fatherless homes? Lets zero in on the underlying factors then help the youth groups who need good responsible adult role models to teach them coping and conflict resolution skills.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml...
"CarmineD -- only if it's something important." @ Killer B
Thank you, I welcome it.
CarmineD
"Arms" - most commonly defined as those weapons normally used/carried by an infantryman - which also ties in to "militia." A historical definition is "...Any thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes in his hands, or uses in his anger, to cast at, or strike at another."(http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/arms) or, in U.S. Colonial times "...weapons that could be carried (http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html).
I've been unable to find an official NRA definition of "arms" but it seems to be restricted only to portable firearms, or to any weapon an individual wants to own.
Under ALL of these definitions, however, Mr. Bacon's letter is definitely NOT an example of "Reductio ad absurdum." Indeed, under most or all of these definitions, even MORE modern "arms" are covered: hand grenades, incendiary devices, smoke generators, tear gas devices, RPGs (both the modern variety and the WWII variety which used a rifle shot to propel a grenade), bayonets, swords, spears. ALL can be carried by a single infantryman. ALL are currently, or have in the past been, used by infantries.
The question we SHOULD be debating is not over the basic right, it rather over the proper and necessary regulation of that right. We seem to already have settled the question of the basic "right". Try carrying a loaded M1, with bayonet affixed, down the middle of Fremont Street (LV) or Virginia Street (Reno) in the position photos show used by Marines hitting the beach at Tarawa. I'd guess that the local police would respond in under 2 minutes, and you'd be on the ground in no more than 2.5 minutes.
I wonder how many people desire or advocate walking down Fremont Street, Las Vegas Blvd or Virgina Street in Reno with guns? Would it be a long list of people?
"Try carrying a loaded M1, with bayonet affixed, down the middle of Fremont Street (LV) or Virginia Street (Reno) in the position photos show used by Marines hitting the beach at Tarawa. I'd guess that the local police would respond..."
renorobert -- Erik Scott's heirs can tell you about that.
"I wonder how many people desire or advocate walking down Fremont Street, Las Vegas Blvd or Virgina Street in Reno with guns?"
RefNV -- why just those streets? Why not any street in America? More important, why would their be fear of armed, law-abiding citizens at all?
"If the exercise of constitutional rights will thwart the effectiveness of a system of law enforcement, then there is something very wrong with that system." -- Escobedo v. State of Illinois, 378 U.S. 478, 490 (1964)
"I wonder how many people desire or advocate walking down Fremont Street, Las Vegas Blvd or Virgina Street in Reno with guns?"
Happens all the time but you may not immediately recognize it.
http://www.fobusholster.com/catalog/Insi...
"RefNV -- why just those streets? Why not any street in America? More important, why would their be fear of armed, law-abiding citizens at all?"
KillerB, I have zero interest in carrying a gun openly displaying it to the public. In Texas, I do have a license to carry a concealed handgun but only carry it if there is a potential for an attack on me or anyone in my group. Current law states I can be arrested and charged with a crime anytime my concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might have seemed. Additionally, I'm 6 3' and 225 lbs so I feel I can handle physical confrontations with my policy being to only subdue and hold down the attacker assuming he does not display a weapon. I was robbed at gunpoint one time by two young teenage boys while walking into a side entrance to a hotel. The robber without the gun kept saying "lets shoot him". I promised myself then I would never leave myself in that vulnerable and defenseless position again. Within Texas, I do carry my gun when travelling. I also don't enter or leave out hotel side entry/exit points anymore. Lessons learned.
After living in England for 16 years without guns, the story that broke the camel's back and made me CCW
http://www.lvrj.com/news/15729957.html
We have some ruthless people in LV
Step one: take the guns away from illegal invaders. Nevada law says they can't have them but clearly not enforcing the law--since crime after crime with guns by illegals, murdering Americans. More laws won't help if we don't enforce the laws we already have.
"A thought about weapons, legality"
Is this the advanced degrees Obama is talking about to earn your a right to stay in this country?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaghVWhqX...
RefNV,
The letter is not being absurd, but only sarcastic.Every gun nut you hear, be it on Fox or CNN says the same thing about owning assault weapons. It is for protection against the government. People with a sense of humor above the 6th grade level can understand that.
William.....
We draw the line at assault rifles.
NOBODY NEEDS AN ASSAULT RIFLE!
We can't ban crazy republicans but we can ban
assault rifles.
One way or another, there will be a new ban on
assault rifles.
PERIOD!
Antigov,
William Bacon is just expressing his individual views on guns. He essentially stated the same views in the article linked below in his comment dated 1/29/13 @ 8:24am and repeated his views again in his comment above @7:45am. This was Bill Bacon's comment on 1/29/13"
"When are they going to let me buy a shoulder held rocket launcher? **** A well regulated militia needs shoulder held rocket launchers...and fully automatic 50 cal. machine guns. it's my right under the second amendment. Those liberals up in Washington just don't understand that rocket launchers don't bring down 747's. people do. Isn't that right NRA?"
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/jan...
Bill Bacon appears passionate about his views as many of us do. I may not agree with his views but I admire him for sharing his thoughts with us.
...and I want to be able to walk around with a Vulcan gattling gun, Rambo style, any time I want to!!!! I am the rediculous NRA..