Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Wednesday, Sept. 19, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
• Editorials - the Sun's viewpoint.
• Columnists - local and syndicated writers.
• Letters to the editor - readers' views.
Have your own opinion? Write a letter to the editor.
Recently, we witnessed the barbaric, stupid retaliation by people in the Middle East responding to a movie released by individuals not connected to those the movie attacked. As Americans, we condemn this blind retaliation on innocent people.
But what would happen if an American leader did the same thing, retaliating against a group of people in the Middle East and harming those who were not connected to the original group of attackers on our embassies? Does one immoral, unethical and illegal act deserve like behavior?
Ken says "But what would happen if an American leader did the same thing, retaliating against a group of people in the Middle East"
Ken did you miss the part where Obama has team six murder OBL and his son. Did you miss the part where Obama sends drones in to murder.
---
Obama-Biden are campaigning on Osama bin Laden is dead -
But Mullah Mohammed Omar and Ayman al-Zawahiri are alive - AND - AND - AND - the Obama Middle-East disengagement policy leaves a power vacuum for al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas and Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Guard and Salafi Islamist are alive AND taking over the governments of Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Yemen.
When you murder a few the rest are mad as hell and will not take it any more
---
This is not about a Hollywood made movie - It is about American policy
---
Making a film attacking someone else's religion doesn't strike me as something Jesus would do.
----
Classic misdirection: Hillary and Obama are blaming an Egyptian's made in Hollywood 3 month old "Innocence of Muslims" U-Tube video for all the violent. really???
Every time Obama or Hillary or Jay Carney brings the Hollywood movie up it elevates it in the minds in Islamic World.
WE ARE INCITING RIOTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST
At every campaign stop Every time Joe Biden says bin Ladin is DEAD.
WE ARE INCITING RIOTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST
Every time Obama sends a drone in to murder
WE ARE INCITING RIOTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST
Of course Obama who has not participated in a daily security brief since September 5th knew nothing of the situation on the ground and can not be blamed.
Obama only participates in the daily security briefing less the half the time. And there were NO Marines protecting our Ambassador on this violent 9-11 anniversary.
So much for the 3:00 am crisis that Obama fended off with a smirk during the 2008 election.
----
We are talking about defending a First Amendment Right. Jesus has nothing to do with it. That is just a matter of pandering to the Islamic radicals. A liberal pass time. Decide if you are a defenbder of our inherent rights or an enemy of them. You can't have it both ways.
This is exactly why we need a different foreign policy for the middle east. We need a policy that recognizes that too many citizens and governments in the middle east do 'zero' to fight terrorism that emanates from their soil. These people are told that US foreign policy is no aid to their nations, militarily or otherwise. Drones and covert operations will be used to kill terrorists and there will be collateral damage on their soil and to their people. If these people and governments want aid, don't want drone attacks and covert operations, they have to rid themselves of terrorists.
Michael
"Speak softly but carry a big stick." Theodore Roosevelt. Republican.
CarmineD
Good points Michael!We need to protect ourselves by an effective counterterrorism strategy, and to curtail the aid. We also need a more aggressive energy policy to produce more oil at home. We are doing better but we are not there yet.
Good letter Mr.Anderson,the difference between the middle east and America is we have freedom of speech.We recognize all people and cultures and do not tell any of our citizens who they should worship. Hate is the big factor in the middle east,this keeps the cycle of violence going.
Bob says we're are defending the first amendment
So true
Eygpt's general prosecutor has issued arrest warrants for 8 Hollywood movie maker who would be subject to death.
Obama has not said anything about this
Why must we play by another set of rules? If it is good enough for the Jihadists, it should be good enough for our troops.
Obama still can not call the Ambassador's murder an act of terror
Waiting still waiting
Let's say I'm a middle east government that has terrorists in my country. The US comes to me and says they will pay me with aid if I'll go after the terrorists.
I need and want the money but I know that if I go after the terrorists, they will turn on me, destabilize my government and even kill me.
My calculation is to agree, take the money and then make a few 'token' attempts to go after the terrorists, attempts the terrorists know are just 'token'.
This seems to be our aid policy to these nations. We've got to be kidding. Human nature and logic should tell us this is a failed strategy.
Michael
"Obama still can not call the Ambassador's murder an act of terror
Waiting still waiting"
Nor will he and this administration. If they do, like all US intelligence and middle east experts are doing, it would be an admission after 4 years that the president's "sweet talk diplomacy" for foreign polciy in the middle east is a complete and utter failure.
CarmineD
Michael says "Let's say I'm a middle east government that has terrorists in my country. The US comes to me and says they will pay me with aid if I'll go after the terrorists."
- the Obama Middle-East disengagement policy leaves a power vacuum for al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas and Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Guard and Salafi Islamist are alive AND taking over the governments of Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Yemen.
- While taking billions of dollars frenemy Hamid Karzai is kicking Obama out of Afghanistan to allow the Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar to return in triumph. 51 troops were killed by fellow Afgans this year
- While taking billions of dollars frenemy Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has kicked Obama out of Iraq so he can allow Iran to fly weapons into the Assad Syria.
- While taking billions of dollars frenemy President Mohamed Morsi is preventing any security protection of Coptic Christians and the American Embassy in Egypt
- While taking billions of dollars frenemy Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf of Pakistan is harboring al Qaeda and Taliban leaders attacking Americans.
- While frenemy Obama will not draw a red line with our friend Israel on Iran's nuclear weapon
Following efforts in Egypt, Afghanistan, Yemen, Bahrain, Sudan, Syria, and other middle East places Obama is looking for another Arab Spring Regime Change under his watch. So far we have no idea who will take over in these countries and we have an Arab Winter.
The radical Black Muslim Brotherhood supported by Obama is seemingly overwhelming any moderate Muslims through out the Middle-East
If we hadn't been dinking around in the middle east since the end of WWII, half of these issues wouldn't have occured. It's time we left those people to their own devices and stop interfering. It's a damn shame Americans spill blood on foreign soil because we are dealing with people who's anger and rage toward each other will never subside, not as long as we are there. We've setup and funded dictator after dictator who in turn use propaganda to tell their people the United States is the root of their problem, while they take billions in funds to bolster their own wealth.
It's refreshing to see people on opposite sides of almost every issue, at least partially agreeing that our middle east intervention and aid policies need to change. We've given aid to dictators, so called freedom movements and just about every other cause and we are still hated by many people in this area.
Let's stop digging and get the hell out of dodge... aka ... the middle east.
Michael
Carmine,"Obama still cannot call the ambassador's murder an act of terror,waiting still waiting"
It dosen't matter who ever was a past president, or currently is president,or even who the next president of the U.S.may be. The hate and revenge in the middle east has always been there and may be there forever. You can't change hate with a new leader,this has been proven over and over through out history in the middle east.The killing of our ambassador,and other embassy personnel in Libya is nothing more than terror.Some parts of the middle east are lawless,and Libya is currently one of those countries at this time. I beleive the over all population of our country would see this as a act of terror.
sam said:
"It dosen't matter who ever was a past president, or currently is president,or even who the next president of the U.S.may be. The hate and revenge in the middle east has always been there and may be there forever."
Good point but to clearly understand what is going on in the Middle East it's necessary to take a walk back in time.
Prior to World War I, much of the Middle East was part of the ancient Ottoman Empire..
The Ottoman Turks treated the Arabs like "red-headed step children" and the Arabs developed a true hatred for their rulers.
The same type of hate that you see today in that area of the world directed toward the United States.
The defeat of the Central Powers, along with the defeat of the Ottoman Turks, in World War I set in motion a series of events that contributed to the present situation found in the Middle East.
The Allies decided at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference that the Middle East would be divided into several countries, make that colonies, with the two leading European powers of that day, Great Britain & France calling the shots in that part of the world.
Iraq, for example, was given as a mandate to the Brits & it was the Brits who actually drew the present boundaries of Iraq.....
Gertrude Bell, Winston Churchill & Lawrence of Arabia decided what Iraq was going to look like & even selected the name Iraq... prior to that time, Iraq was called Mesopotamia.
The French did pretty much the same thing with their mandates and like the Brits, the French had no long term plan to see the Middle East develop democratic governments and gain their independence.
They were simply colonies that were there to benefit the French & British Empires.....colonalism European style!
Winston Churchill, a huge Empire man, wanted control of Iraq do largely to the oil that was there. Some things don't change very much, do they>
After World War II, it was apparent that the era of British & French colonalism in the Middle East was becomning a thing of the past.
As the Brits & the French with drew from that area, the US stepped forward to fill the vacumn that was created.
We've been there ever since....
The presence of Israel & oil has tied us to that part of the world for the last 60+ years. We're not leaving any time soon....
ByEl-Lobo,Great lesson on history in the middle east.Thanks for the update.
Obama went on Letterman last night to tell Muslims to keep our embassies and business interest safe
Strong letter to follow
We have spent Trillions on the Arab nations and obviously the money was NOT well spent. How much of this nonsense is our "defense department" seeking another war so they can expand their "business" is indecipherable. There remains a threat to any American in an Arab nation, so let's start to take steps in a better direction. WITHDRAW AMERICAN FUNDS for military "training, food aide, medical assistance.... and close our embassies. We keep feeding peoples who are unable to support themselves so their populations increase into more and more angry young men, a portion of whom become TERRORISTS against us--because we seem to have while they do not. We can maintain several drone bases and special forces but bring all the GROUND TROOPS HOME.
Arabs and others, the average citizens, are sometimes forced to carry explosives and kill our troops. Others realize they must "follow orders" and demonstrate and attack Americans. We cannot magically change a medieval culture (and we can't accept their people here) to transform into a republic or democracy because we fund it. They must suffer their evolutions. Sure, that's hard on the populations but UNTIL THE POPULATION demands change, we cannot do it for them. Remember Libya--they had to fight their own civil war. Further, we must limit picking sides and supplying one side over another--things change. The side we think now are the good guys may not be and/or may not have adequate support to resist terrorist group infiltration.
"Carmine,"Obama still cannot call the ambassador's murder an act of terror,waiting still waiting"
I didn't post it Mr. Pizzo. I was quoting it and responding to it.
CarmineD
At least The Muslim Brotherhood are better off now then they were four years ago. Hopefully the president started attending his daily security briefing again this week.
Carmine,Yes you did respond to future's post, and you also agreed with it.One of the same.
Good we all agree Sam as you say ".The killing of our ambassador,and other embassy personnel in Libya is nothing more than terror"
So when will Obama admit that terrorist did it that the ambassador was unprotected and we has intel 3 day ahead of the attack
@Mr. Weber 3:47am: I'm a Catholic and I'd suggest reading the Bible and see for yourself just how forgiving God would be.
The killing of Americans was not the work of the Libyan government and it was not condoned by the Libyan people. Remember that Libyans fought with Americans against their attackers and helped diplomats find safety. Libyans carried Ambassador Stevens's body to the hospital.
We are not at war with Muslims or the Libyan people.
bySickOfSomeOfU,You said it all, I can't add anything to it.
I get the writer's letter totally. It is a clear analogy of the unilateral wars perpetrated by GWB, particularly, the war in Iraq.
People in the region freak out over some stupid BS. Nothing new. It's been going on since Salmon Rushdie, and before that.
If you take the numbers of rioters as opposed to population in these countries, this shouldn't even be news.
Idiots running around burning American flags, and generally trashing anything around them, doesn't indicate anything more than people who like to riot, and will take any opportunity to do so.
When American casualties, as a result of these mindless riots, begin to approach the casualties sustained in the illegal war in Iraq, and the current quagmire in Afghanistan, then GOP warmongers may have a point.
"Carmine,Yes you did respond to future's post, and you also agreed with it.One of the same."
Yes and No Mr Pizzo. If you invent something and I use it, that doesn't mean I invented it.
Same with words.
CarmineD
Carmine, Call it what you will,It dosen't chane anything, a duck is a duck.
" Does one immoral,unethical and illegal act deserve like behavior?"
It did as far and Dubya and Cheney were concerned when they lied the country into a war in Iraq,which the current administration has to pay for.
"Carmine, Call it what you will"
I did Mr. Pizzo and will, whether or not you do.
CarmineD
Carmine,I suggest you read sickofsomeofu's post Sept.19,4:51 PM.yesturday.I did read it, whether or not you do.
By SickOfSomeOfU,Good luck on receiving any response from your last post.
Mr. Pizzo:
Two persons being wrong, doesn't make it right. We will just have to agree to disagree on this matter. Rather than try to convert the other.
CarmineD
"you, carmine, r guilty as charged for the broken lamp in the room. Period. End of sentences on the topic of ur guilt."
I was an innocent bystander. Hillary threw it at Bill for his philandering. I "ducked."
CarmineD
The bigger issue is that the Administration after 8 days finally agreed witht the consensus of all the intel and experts and called the murders and attack on the Libyan Consulate an act of terrorism. I said it on September 12 in a thread here to Jeffery who at the time, and long after, was taking the lame position of the Aministration.
Nice to know that I and me alone made you become a trusted commenter. I didn't think I had that much influence over you. Apprently you proved me wrong.
CarmineD
PS: Don't give yourself more credit than you deserve by bending your arm/shoulder out of joint to pat yourself on the back. Many times I don't post a "tit for tat" because there are other better things to do with my time than waste it on futility. I am happy if that makes you feel you win. Be my guest and become galactically ecstatic.
CarmineD
"But what would happen if an American leader did the same thing, retaliating against a group of people in the Middle East and harming those who were not connected to the original group of attackers on our embassies? Does one immoral, unethical and illegal act deserve like behavior?" - from the letter
Ask the people of Iraq what they think about that.
BySickOfSomeOfU,
I beleive you covered everything,and stood your ground.I can see you won't take abuse from anyone.That's what makes you the person you are,keep it going,and stay strong.
Sick: With all due respect, it's not about WINNING debates. We post our thoughts (to share and) to see if others can add information and perspective. Some take a breather or time out to consider or reconsider things. At other times, it is clear that you / others are not reading or absorbing what we're saying and/or you / others are on tangents that just don't interest us. I'm not trying to attack you or anyone but I am renewed in surprise how many people become absolutely defensive and assume I (or other posters) are of a specific mindset without reading the content--or misreading the content and inferring things not said. I am frequently "accused" of being Republican. I am not. I am frequently assumed to be affluent. I am not. I'm comfortable but that means different things to different people.
"PS...Hillary called and said it's a lie; she didn't throw any lamp."
I have witnesses who were there and saw her and "ducked" too.
CarmineD
Sick: It's not about WINNING debates. You can debate. You don't have to WIN to express yourself or make your point. Sorry about the writing level but you know how graduate school tombs are--just a bit more complex is routine for me that Freshman Composition. Oh, I admit I run on AND I do NOT ascribe to limitations on my freedom of expression--such as "journalistic" writing syle.