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Monday, Sept. 10, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
• Editorials - the Sun's viewpoint.
• Columnists - local and syndicated writers.
• Letters to the editor - readers' views.
Have your own opinion? Write a letter to the editor.
In a recent letter, “Reid working to diversify the economy,” Peter Pall defends Sen. Harry Reid’s latest attempt to promote a $5 billion alternative-energy project near Laughlin proposed by a Chinese company, arguing it would be a major factor in solving our unemployment problem.
The jobs created by such a project are mostly temporary construction jobs, gone after the panels are in place, windmills built or whatever.
The Tonopah solar project, financed by a $737 million Department of Energy loan guarantee , is projected to provide 45 permanent jobs ($16 million per job), but it is taxpayer-sponsored.
The second overlooked fact is that the Chinese company could bring its own workers, like the company building a new bridge over the San Francisco Bay.
The main effect the project would have for Nevada residents is the cost of the power it could possibly produce.
The considerably higher cost would be passed on in everyone’s utility bill, causing a real problem for our seniors and low-income residents.
Thanks to the letter writer for exposing the vast inefficiencies and low yielding job creation of these green solar enegy projects. The insanity of heaping the cost burdens of these projects on taxpayers and rate payers is extreme. It is bad business. Koolaid drinking environmentalists and Leftists embedded in the Obama administration and Reid congress are to blame. May they all go!
It I also using china labor to build the panels in China and all profit goes to China
Harry Reid is outsourcing jobs, manufacturing and profits
I'm so tired of reading false commentaries that just "jack-knife" automatically when the truth comes out.
Here are the real facts on green energy production;
"The Union of Concerned Scientists found that wind creates 2.4 times more jobs than coal or natural gas during plant construction and 1.5 times more jobs during long-term operations and maintenance." Therefore, renewable energy is very labor intensive, especially in comparison with fossil fuels. There's manufacturing, shipping, assembling, maintaining, managing. The same thing applies with solar."
Once again, here go the Republicans attempting to keep the economy stagnated and eliminate more safe choices of energy for the American consumer.
BChap cite the extreme radical The Union of Concerned Scientists .
Even liberal do not believe them
Fact is the Reid home town solar plant has only five workers and the capital results in higher electric rates
The Union of Concerned Scientists are hardly an unbiased organization.
The democrats promised to make electricity prices "necessarily skyrocket" and they are delivering. Enjoy, especially you middle class!
Okay, BChap, then why does "green" energy need subsidies? If it's so great, creates such a bonanza in jobs and is nearly competitive in cost to coal, gas & oil, why can't it stand on its own merits? Why aren't guys like you rushing to invest your money in company's such as Solyndra? It's probably because the facts & statistics you bandy about are made up from thin air by those with a vested interest in seeing to it the subsidy spigot is not turned off. Subsidizing "green" energy company's is merely another way to "redistribute" the wealth. Only in this case, it's to favored company's by way of "crony" capitalism. It's unfair, unwarranted and must be put to an end!
There are those whose attention span for climate change extends only until the next power bill arrives. They pretend to know the economic cost of burning fossil fuels by simply extending current prices indefinitely into the future while neglecting the health costs, droughts, tornados, forest fires, etc. They cannot see an easy solution to the problem so they deny it exists and establish a pseudo-belief system to counter all the scientific evidence. If we will only solve problems with easy and painless solutions then we'd better get used to living with severe problems that only get worse --- as long as we can live at all.
Robert Latchford is either confused or deliberately confusing the readers by mentioning two separate solar projects. The Tonopah solar project website here:
http://www.solarreserve.com/what-we-do/c...
is interesting reading and Robert could have done so BEFORE writing his letter. But that would have been inconvenient for his purposes now wouldn't it readers?
"droughts, tornados, forest fires, etc. "
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that man-made CO2 causes any of these.
The comment about wind energy creating jobs is a classic example of armchair misinformation. A wind farm will create a boom and bust economy. The construction jobs do not go to local people, they go to unions. Small communities are subjected to dust and visual disturbances. No one wants to buy a house there because no one wants to live next to a turbine. No real estate market left. No one wants to visit so the local hotels go out of business. Why would you vacation next to a wind farm when you can go somewhere where you don't have to look at that? So the wind developer gets 30 million in tax breaks. Construction is finished, 5 full time jobs are created, tourism is shot. No real estate market. That's how Wal-Mart puts down all the little businesses. Y'all can scream NIMBY, but this will only hurt the economy in the long run. People who support wind energy support natural gas peaker plants.That's how the grid functions when unpredictable energy is used. Since no wind farm has ever shut down a coal plant, that equals a surplus of C02 in the air. People who support wind are ignorant. People who support big wind, the way the Administration is doing it, really support more C02. They just don't know because they don't do the research. Exactly the sheep the industry is looking for.
The Solar Reserve Project will create 45 jobs...if it ever gets complete. Solar Reserve redesigned the heliostats (reflector mirrors)
The Laughlin Project is way to big and expensive to ever get subsidized. No one will invest that kind on money in a project that will produce so little energy. Going solar works on the individual, point of use scale. Too bad environmentalists refuse to look at that fact!
I think there is a place for solar, and it is not building farms out in the middle of a desert. The solar applications should be onsite based to provide direct electricity to a building to lighten the load of the main power grid. These installations require no transmission line and other expensive hardware. The government could give tax credits to those who invest in their own power making the overall government money given away available to many not just a few. The jobs would be created and more stable as workers go from job to job doing installs instead of one big project then they have no work. The letter writer is basically correct.
A WOMAN NAMED "PEG" WHO WAS A BUSINESS GENIUS
During my teenage years in the mid 1960's I had the honor and distinct pleasure of becoming very close to a woman named Peg, who built from scratch, a very successful crane / welding family business. She was nothing short of remarkable. I always remembered her saying, "Try, try and try again until you make your business work." Her sacrifices and hard times endured prior to becoming successful bordered on, and even at times, entered the extreme. Peg never gave up!!!
Another one of her sayings were, " The advancement of technology for a better life never stands still, therefore, our struggles never end."
This applies in modern day to "green energy". Of course, "green energy" has a long ways to go in becoming the primary use of energy for America. No question there. But do we give up on development of this technology in lieu of going the old course which will inevitably choke off our environment? That would be absurd. Like Peg said, "Try, try, and try again until we make the business work."
This is not to say, that a well-balanced energy independent America is to be trashed when "green energy" begins its rooting to success. Quite to the contrary. I'm a strong believer in the advancement of "clean coal" technologies and natural gas.
America is strongest, when we are well-balanced and diverse in our choices.
Peg always said, "My old cranes still perform a valuable service to my company, but its my newly developed cranes that work most efficiently that make me my largest profit margin."
When it comes to "green energy", coal, and natural gas, we should take Peg's analogous words to heart. After all, she was just a genius.
A crane and a subsidzed solar boondoggle are two very different things.
Cranes are universal and needed. Solar energy that costs 5 billion is designed more for Wall Street investors than practical reality. Sounds like Peg was a good business woman and she did not contract all the work out to China.
Let's say that Laughlin Plant creates 250 construction jobs.It costs 5 billion to build. That would cost about 20 milllion dollars per job!
Making Alternatives look silly is the work of the Oil Cos and their hired helpers like Harry Reid.
Solar by definition works when it is captured and used as close to the need as possible. How many houses in your area have panels? water heaters? are built properly to make best use of the ambient conditions?
Look it is 2012 and we get it. It is the Future vs the the monied interests who fight it. That in a nutshell is what ALL of the issues discussed on these forums are about.
If you have an hour and a half and want to educate yourself on these issues there is no better way than watching the Film "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
http://youtu.be/IENnSK8Q6nE
My understanding of the agreement is that: the Chinese company is required to build and operate a solar panel production factory in Clark County -- and the details are spelled out in writing in the contract with the County -- or they lose their concession. Is this not true? If this is true, then Mr. Latchford's letter is an Emily Littela Moment: "Oh, that's different. Never mind." On the other hand, maybe, somehow that contract has big holes in its language and our County Staff and Commissioners have been duped. But since the contract was and is a public record, it seems unlikely that no one has noticed anything amiss until now.
Since Nevada has ZERO fossil fuels of its own.. it makes perfect sense, looking to our future, for us to buy ALL OUR ENERGY in the form of Fossil fuels from outside the state!
Lets just ignore that we have the ability to be wholly independent in Electric energy and become an exporter to surrounding states! Lets ignore that we send all this money outside the state to keep our homes cool and businesses running.
Sure!! lets do that !!! Good Plan!!!
Nevada's Hidden Treasure: Black Gold
http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp...
Kinks---high initial cost, low number of permanent jobs, the subsidy bug-a-boo, etc---aside, wind, solar and other "green" energy sytems will, in the long run, pan out and be more beneficial than other systems.
Seems like there is an 800lb gorilla in the room. Why are there only companies like Solyndra or Chinese companies that want to get involved in solar energy in Nevada? Why aren't any legitimate US companies getting in the game? (Why isn't Reid supporting any legitimate US companies who want to get in the game?)
boftx.....
Why isn't our governor supporting companies who
want to get into the game?
Why do we never even SEE our governor.
We need all hands on deck.
NEVADA IS THE NUMBER ONE SUN STATE IN THE U.S.
WE SHOULD BE THE SOLAR CAPITAL IN THE U.S.
What are private investors waiting for?
Can U.S. investors out-do China IN OUR OWN STATE.
Hey Steve Wynn, maybe you can help us out here.
Hmmmmm....Something's never change...
For example, take the attitude of the right-wingers who post on this board...
They continue to work 24/7 to keep this country from moving forward. They're determined to take us back to the year 1901.
The word "progress" is a dirty word to those who sleep over on the right! They want to take us back to the time period when woman could not vote, American Indians were not citizens, & labor unions did not exist.
Blacks had very few rights & there was no such thing as a minimum wage law or guaranteed health care.
There was no income tax; no Social Security or Medicare, and the average worker simply worked until they dropped.
97% of the wealth of the country was controlled by less than 3% of the population. Public education was primitive at best & not widely available to the masses. Only the rich received any type of advanced education and voting was limited to a small percentage of the population...
In other words, what went on in 1901 is exactly where the Republican Party & Mitt Romney plans to take us if they win the up coming November election....
GIVE PRESIDENT OBAMA ANOTHER 4 YEARS! VOTE DEMOCRAT IN NOVEMBER.....
El_Lobo......100% CORRECT.
Our country can't afford to go backwards again.
Green energy is all part of the future.
Super-rich Americans better start investing in
our own country again.
China, Germany and other countries are moving
ahead of us on green energy.
All of our infrastructure needs re-building.
Time is a-wasting.
DEMOCRATS ARE MOVING US FORWARD!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!
Germany solar industry. Another bad joke laid on the sheeple:
http://notrickszone.com/2012/03/22/germa...
With natural gas so cheap and abundant, low density power sources should be kicked to the curb.
Again centralized Solar is a recipe for failure. Gee wonder why this is the mode being pushed by the Oil Cos?
I love how the Right Wingers rail on alternatives to centralized power sources and bad mouth alternatives which empower the individual. Trained like the good little minions of the Rich.
Anyhow anybody interested in things like Freedom and Liberty should check-out the solar products offered by your local Home Depot for example. If not listen to Rush and keep spewing the Bs for free just the way Exxon likes it.
See if you can figure out why "they" are working to kill this: http://www.solyndra.com/technology-produ...
3rd video...Solyndra 200 Series: Fastest, Easiest to Install Rooftop Solar System
BTW this company and the loan process started under Bush. When it became apparent they were actually serious and moving ahead, "they" killed it and have since made it a toxic political potato for Obama.
boftx,
Is Bombard Electric legitimate?
Wind and solar blow as a grid source. Something about low power density. It's a conspiracy of physics, not Big Oil (or Rush for the truly simpleton). Maybe if they took a thermodynamics course...nah, too much math.
Solyndra had a viable product, just as GM does with the Volt. LOL!
rusty57 links to a crank website as if it were credible. Oh well, back to ignoring "rusty57".
"The word "progress" is a dirty word to those who sleep over on the right! They want to take us back to the time period when woman could not vote, American Indians were not citizens, & labor unions did not exist.
Blacks had very few rights & there was no such thing as a minimum wage law or guaranteed health care."
Subsidizing a solar farm with tax breaks will not stop unemployment, racism and class warfare. If anything, raising power rates and taxes to pay for these boondoggles will only hurt poor people with bigger expenses. Utilitie companies prosper, politicians get good donations and Bectel makes a killing, but this won't help low income people at all. Is this utility solar liberal or is it a liberal industry/Wall Street smokescreen? Over- bill the 99 percent so the 1 pecent can get rich off of badly planned solar farms.
Stephan,
As I said we have ZERO fossil fuels! The tiny little hobby wells your report talks about are nothing in comparison to the demand for energy. Also, shale is not oil.. it contains an oil like substance which must be mined and then requires enormous amounts of energy to extract from the shale. Including a lot of water.. Look at the "Tar Sands" in Canada.. they have almost dried up many rivers extracting the enormous amounts of water needed to convert the keratin into what is called SynCrude.. then it still needs to be refined! Their rivers are polluted, their landscape is polluted and their wildlife is dying..
After we add in the environmental damage and costs to that.... it actually makes fossil energy more expensive than alternatives. By conveniently not having to pay for those costs.. is the only way you can keep fossil fuels cheap..
The reason Oil Co's don't develop this shale is there is not enough water nor energy in the state to actually do it in a large enough scale to make it worth while. Don't mislead people with bad information.. Nevada's future in energy will only come from Alternatives.. not fossil fuels and we don't burn oil to make electricity anyway!
"BTW this company and the loan process started under Bush. When it became apparent they were actually serious and moving ahead, "they" killed it and have since made it a toxic political potato for Obama"
Bush did it! Clinton did it! Reagan did it! More political stupidity. Solyndra resulted in making both parties look like the true idiots that they are. Bush started the deal, but the Obama people had plenty of people to look into this before they said yes. Big problem with Obummer is that he won't take any responsibility. But, hey, we saw Bush do that all the time. I guess Obama liked how that always worked for Bush!
An electrical contractor (Bombard) is not the same as the company that actually owns the plants and is getting paid to supply power.
Boftx opens mouth and inserts both feet and both hands:
http://www.bombardelectric.com/Divisions...
"Bombard Renewable Energy (BRE), is part of the MDU Construction Services Group, Inc. Bombard Renewable Energy was created as a response to an increase in demand and interest in the Renewable Energy industry. We are committed to providing the solar industry with the qualified service and support necessary to successfully meet and exceed the expectations of our solar partners. The Renewable Energy Division of Bombard Electric has installed over 20 megawatts of solar PV Renewable Energy on over 500 projects in and around the State of Nevada. BRE is also versed on wind power technology and can support our clients in this sector of the Renewable Energy marketplace.
Bombard Electric's Renewable Energy Division is the result of Bombard Electric's commitment to the successful implementation of Nevada's sustainable next generation "green energy" technologies. We have installed 11 percent of all grid interactive photovoltaic systems introduced in the United States in 2007. To date Bombard Renewable Energy has installed over 20 megawatts of Photovoltaic (PV) Solar Electric Systems in both the public and private sectors. That's more than all other licensed Solar PV contractors in Nevada combined.
Please add an additional line at the end of this text which reads: to learn more about Bombard Renewable Energy, please visit our website at www.bombardre.com."
Mark, thank you for posting the very passages that define Bombard as a construction contractor and not a plant owner/operator.
You should go back and research my posts on renewable energy, I'm *in favor* of it. It's the scams going on behind the scenes that piss me off.
Yes Shaffer, germany solar power is 'thriving'. That's why they are building so many new coal and natural gas plants. Still can't connect the dots?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/1...
China's trade war bankrupted Solyndra
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/02/24/ch...
This is one huge example of why so much money is sitting on the sidelines. Why invest when you are at the mercy of competitors who are not playing fair? ones which can start-up after you are established and then move-in to kill you?
Obama along with most of this US Government cannot stop it, and will not since they work for Globalists, not US Citizens.
Now you know why our economy is going backwards.
Obama has the power under international trade agreements to grant the petition and levy countervailing import duties on imported Chinese solar panels to level the playing field before it is too late and the U.S. solar manufacturing companies go the way of U.S. TV manufacturing.
Will Obama act? Not likely.
Since the beginning of his term, Obama has responded to Chinese aggression with passivity, even removing an American aircraft carrier farther out to sea when the Chinese objected to its transit in international waters.
Bowing to Chinese leaders, giving those leaders red carpet welcomes to Washington, speaking with admiration and envy of the ability of the Chinese Communist Party to maintain a one party state in a growing economy, Obama has been Beijing's best friend while China systematically disassembled American manufacturing.
Many within and outside Obama's administration charge that taking action against Chinese dumping would provoke a "trade war". The Chinese are already engaged in a trade war and the U.S. is losing.
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/02/24/ch...
It's okay, China solar on verge of bankruptcy also.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...
Low density energy sources are for losers. Enjoy the lowered standard of living along with energy poverty.
For those watching boftx move the goalposts here is his original question:
"Why aren't any legitimate US companies getting in the game?" Nothing there about plant owner/operator. I am in favor of accuracy boftx.
Solar Power More Competitive Than Decision-Makers Or Consumers Realize
http://www.forbes.com/sites/justingerdes...
"Currently, we're installing typical residential roof mounts that have a levelized cost of energy of $0.10 kWh" which may currently be about the average of $0.085, but customers recognize these rates will be going up, and are choosing to 'lock-in' their rate for the next 20-30 years or more.
In Texas, our typical customer is no 'tree-huger', its a financial planning decision based on return and the security of that return". and return is now very compelling.
Cheers!"
Here's the breakdown on alternative energy rebates available from NV Energy granted by the State. The State runs these programs thru your utility so they can dictate to YOU what's up.
https://www.nvenergy.com/renewablesenvir...
Not surprisingly in a State with 12% to 25% unemployment, the People get thrown under the bus to protect the interests of NV Energy and other dirty energy suppliers.
And we sit wondering why unemployment is what it is in Nevada? No alternative energy, no online gaming, no real estate redevelopment. Instead we get fancy new roads we don't need and smart meters.
Sorry Mark, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about owner/operators, the permanent stakeholders. Not trying to move the goalpost at all.