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Thursday, Oct. 25, 2012 | 2:01 a.m.
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I have watched numerous political commercials blame China for various ills in the United States. How ridiculous are they?
China has done nothing wrong. They did not attack us militarily and force us to buy their products. Wal-Mart and American consumers everywhere chose to do that on their own.
China did not force greedy American businesses to make anything in their country. These businesses and their consumers did that on their own.
Most significant, it is these same advertising politicians (of both parties) who have created the tax policies that have permitted this situation to happen.
Trying to blame China (or India, etc.) is wrong. This is simply our politicians refusing to admit to their own failures to pass laws and regulations that are best for our country as a whole and not just for lining their own pockets.
It is the American political way — blame others and accept no responsibility yourself.
- Today GENERAL MOTORS is heavily investing billions of American generated profits in Buick plants in China - so China can sell cars to South America. And the China profits are kept in overseas in China banks.
- in 2010 GM "sold" China's SAIC Motor a majority stake in their joint venture. And now SAIC is demanding rights to GM technology.
- GM has 200,000 workers in plants outside the US.
GM is own by The Obama government
///////
Do liberals ever read the car sticker PARTS CONTENT INFORMATION on a new GM car
Cadillac SRX
"For vehicles in this carline:
- US/CANADIAN PARTS CONTENT: 26%
- MAJOR SOURCES OF FOREIGN PARTS CONTENT: MEXICO 65%
- ENGINE: MEXICO
- FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT: RAMOS ARIZPE, CZ MEXICO
OUTSOURCING BY OBAMA
-----)
In reply to Robert Stanelle; good letter to the editor.
President Obama has refused conservative demands that he declare China a "currency manipulator".
I thought, according to Republicans, President Obama knows nothing about business?
Should Mitt Romney get elected to the White House and live by this promise, to first label China as a currency manipulator, just who does he think is going to buy American debt from that point?
It is only common sense that this would be China's retaliation on America if Romney were to do something this stupid. If people think "Bushenomics" was dangerous, that would be nothing in comparison to the consequences of this.
America, you better be damn careful who you vote for. Romney spells "depression" for the United States.
"Any so-called businessman dumb enough (Bush) to initiate a huge amount of loans from a shark should be smart enough to wait until those loans are paid off before punching his carrier in the stomach." <B. Chapline>
But, no, not Romney!!!
We have to distinguish the Chinese people from the Chinese government. They are not the same. Thanks to their industrial focus and passion for freedoms, the Chinese people are pushing back against the Chinese government's dinosaur-like thinking. The Chinese people to their credit are becoming, dare I say, "Americanized."
Yes, the Chinese government is a currency manipulator with its yuan. BUT what is Fed Chair Ben Bernanke with the dollar? Sadly, nothing was said about the Federal Reserve and its policies for the dollar during the debates. BUT there is a day of reckoning ahead for QE 1, 2, and 3 and who knows how many more.
CarmineD
People talk as if China is invulnerable. It isn't, and neither are we. We account for 30 % of China's export economy. Obama has gone after China in some ways and China has not retaliated in a major way. If they are labeled a currency manipulator, I doubt they will retaliate in a major way.
Let's face it. China could hurt us badly if it wanted to, but a 30 % loss in its export economy would devastate China, and they know it.
What is most important is that we stop creating debt that China buys. Without that debt, we'd hold most of the economic cards against a nation whose economy depends on America buying 30 % of everything they offer for sale.
It just one more reason, among many, that Congress needs to match spending with revenue and STOP creating debt.
Michael
Mr. Stanelle, your letter reads as one big contradiction. Your first statement says China has done nothing wrong, and that they have not attacked us. So then by your next statement, it is WalMart and the American consumers who are responsible. Huh?
You then pull out the "greedy corporation" straw-man and throw in "their consumers" which would be all of us.
Next, you cite tax policies that permitted this situation, and a failure to pass laws and regulations to prevent this situation.
The contradiction stems from the Marxian straw-man of "corporate greed", which then skews any further critical reasoning after that. which btw was Marx's intention from the get-go.
WalMart doesn't produce anything in China, it merely procures the products from China. It does this to provide a wide array of products at the lowest possible prices for American consumers. In doing that it is thus the American consumers that have made Walmart the biggest corporation in the world. It would seem as if you, and those like you, believe that by patronizing Walmart, consumers are part of the problem. You skew even further by not recognizing that tax policies aren't "permitting" it, but that they are "causing" it. And that laws and regulations don't "prevent" it, but perpetuate it.
Why is it that those who only see "greed" and a lack of government intervention fail to see it as a struggle to compete in a global market where the profit motive or bottom line is the most efficient way to give consumers any value whatsoever for their increasingly government-devalued dollars, in a slow or stagnant economy that was also created by government.
The "currency manipulation" is the de-valuation of the Yuan, as China and the rest of the global central banking authorities merely follow suit to that of the Federal Reserve. Therefore is the American taxpayer that is being manipulated.
In reply to Michael Casler; I knew you would be posting, and I knew exactly what you were going to write. And, as such, you did.
PART ONE
I agree with you that, "Congress needs to match spending with revenue and STOP creating debt." To accomplish this, Republican based corporations need to cease hording hundreds of billions of dollars in record profits and invest in expansion and development as is the core of America's free enterprise system. This is when, Michael, huge amounts of jobs are created. Secondly, the wealthy needs to pay their fair share of taxes. This is currently America's problem in the economy recovering more expeditiously. Republicans know this. And, Republicans are playing "Russian Roulette" with our country.
Why do you think, Michael, some Democrats are looking in the direction of the traits in socialism? The answer is simple. Because, the Republican "Economic Power Bases" can longer be trusted to conform to fair and just "free enterprise principals, or, in other words, to do the right thing for America. I can't fault these Democrats because options for our survival, as a country, are now forcefully limited, putting people like me, of the middle-class at severe risk. And, every one of you Republicans knows this.
So now, as the letter writer states, you want to blame China. If this isn't bad enough, Republicans like Mitt Romney desire to start a trade war with China. And now, as usual, should this take place with China, history from the war with Japan will again progress to repeat itself. The following passage has been taken from history books;
"Though it wasn't the only reason, the trade embargo deeply affected Japan. Japan obtained the majority of its resources (especially fuel and oil) from other countries. By blocking trade to Japan, who was already recovering from severe economic recession, they economically drained Japan.
PART TWO
As early as 1938 the US began a series of economic and covert military (Flying Tigers) actions against Japan. The largest was the cancellation of the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. The Roosevelt administration increased these under Secretary of War Stimson and Treasury Secretary Morgenthau began a series of economic actions that gradually put a stranglehold on the Japanese. Among these was the Export control act which blocked all exports from US private companies to Japan.
In July of 1941 the Roosevelt administration launched a double offensive, by stationing long range bombers and moving the Pacific fleet towards Japan in Pearl Harbor, Wake Island, and increasing the Philippine military presence, (actions similar to the Missiles in October the US would face from Russia/Cuba years later), Roosevelt convinced both the UK and Holland to cut off all oil supplies to Japan.
These actions forced what America's leaders had hoped for; to bring the Japanese, with no other alternative known to them, to take the first shot. The Japanese did take action on December 7th by attacking the US base at Pearl Harbor and against the Philippines."
You should know, Michael, if a parent teaches their child to be a bully, that same parent has no right to condemn their child for turning out to be a bully. I see you in many facets Michael, as being a very intelligent man. This is why, when you make comments of the nature like you have this morning, I become very disappointed in you, and just cannot understand why you continue to be a Republican voter.
I suppport free trade on a level playing field to the greatest extent possible.I believe the excerise of freedom extends to the marketplace.
To that end tax policies should encourage busineses to pursue investment opportunities wherever they are the most profitable offering the greatest potential for return on investment.
The tax policies should to the extent possible be nation blind or non disriminatory in nature. Our trade repreesentative should bargain hard for deals that level the playing field in all respects. Therefor our policies should be pro business in such a way that they discourarge isolationism and artificial direction of factor flows that are less than optimal for businesses.
All the factors of production ( land, labor ,capital,entrepreneural) should receive returns in direct proportion to their contributions to the profits in a global network.
Bradley,
I really appreciate your views and the back and forth. I asked ASadTeacher (Nancy) the other day, who complained about outsourcing, what she would propose to stop it. I haven't checked today but yesterday, there was no response.
Given the current economy, the deficits and the debt, if I were a wealthy corporation or individual, I would hoard and not grow and invest. I suspect you would too. In fact, I am doing so as a non wealthy individual. So, I'll ask you: What would you do to 'force' these individuals and companies to spend their own money and invest and grow?
As for your history lesson, you neglect to mention that Japan had embarked on an expansionist path, much like Germany had under Hitler. Yes, the sanctions and acts we took caused Pearl Harbor, but we must also recognize the following: If we'd waited just a little longer to enter WWII, Hitler would have had jet powered fighters and bombers versus our prop driven aircraft, would have completed developing missile technology the allies did not have and would quite possibly have gotten the atomic bomb before we did. If he had gotten all three, he likely wins the war. Even if he'd gotten 2 of the three, the outcome of WWII could have been very different. As we discovered at wars end, Germany was very close to having weapons that could have changed the fortunes of war.
I agree that it would help in the short run if government just ordered the wealthy to spend or took what they have and spent it, but that's not our system. Some Americans want to go to a system where that could be done. I don't, which is why, much to your disappointment and frustration, I can support Romney.
Romney does not have the total answer, because without Congress controlling spending, we are doomed no matter what else we do. Same for Obama's plan.
The wealthy businesses and individuals do need to spend, grow and invest for the economy to recover. Under this system, government cannot and will not 'order' that, so encouraging it is all government can do. I happen to believe that lowering taxes is a more effective encouragement than more taxes and higher government spending would be.
I could be wrong but that's how I see it.
Michael
Excellent agreement here
China needs to allow a level play field and we will compete
We need to make our tax system competitive with our trading partners
So simple
Mr. Sun,
Respectfully, please clear your pages of those who would plagiarise.
Regards
Purgatory
Out of 6 million employer firms, only 30,000 are large corporations with 500 plus employees. Clearly, a majority of companies are small to medium sized. It's hard argument to make that 6 million companies are colluding against a party or candidate.
We have 17% fewer tax filers and the top wage earners make 34% less than they did pre-recession which makes up a large majority of the difference in our tax revenue drop to 14.5% of GDP from 18%.
The deficit is $1.1 trillion($1,100 billion) this year and Obama's tax warfare would collect less than $60 billion which keeps us still with a deficit of over $1 trillion. That is not a viable plan that leads us to solving our problem which is getting jobless Americans working and investors investing. The anti-business Obama, liberal democrats, unions and occupiers do not create jobs, businesses do.
http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html...
I'm reading a lot of numbers, but not the reason we got'em.
Stop blaming Obama. Weak excuse. After all, the numbers we are experiencing were in the making long before Barack Obama became president.
Here is a number Barack Obama will help make:
President Obama wins re-election by 6 to 8 points.
Longtimevegan,
We understand that Obama and liberal democrats don't get numbers. Moderate democrats get numbers but unfortunately, the number of moderate democrats have been reduced from 56 to only 10 sure bets ths year. I'ts what happens when Obama steered the democratic party liberal left.
China is a currency manipulator. Sure. They fix the value of their currency against the dollar.
What nobody is saying is that we are also currency manipulators. We print money to buy our own debt to keep interest rates low. It is called Quantitative Easing 1, 2, and now 3!
Greece and Spain wish they could be currency manipulators, but they don't have the economic strength to get away with it.
The way forward is education. Obviously we can't compete with the wage some poor Chinese person who grew up in the country is willing to come to the city to work for. People need to stop complaining and learn to do something those poor people in China cannot do with their minimal education. Don't count on these Chinese workers to unionize anytime soon to drive up wages to equality.
Walmart and China allow Americans to buy goods at prices cheaper than what they cost 40 years ago. I recently purchased some workout shirts on sale at Walmart for about six bucks each. When I played football for Santa Monica high school in the early 1970s I paid more than that for my football jerseys.
A much bigger problem is that Walmart doesn't pay their employees anything. A worker averages about $11 an hour. Hundreds of thousands of their workers collect welfare benefits. The United States government provides Walmart with a massive subsidy that allows them to get away with these lousy wages. They could double the wages of their employees and only increase the cost of goods and services by a few cents. Wages are not a big deal when you sell nearly $500 billion worth of merchandise a year. They prefer not to do it because they want their employees to spend the money that they make at the Walmart stores. If the workers earned substantially more money they wouldn't have to. They could shop at higher-end stores.
The days are coming to an end when you can spend six dollars for a shirt and then go back to a $50,000 year job. It's not China's fault that Americans love dirt cheap merchandise.
@VegasEngineer,
"The way forward is education..."
"People need to stop complaining..."
(VegasEngineer)
Some people actually get it. Some people don't. Good post VegasEngineer, good post!
"Trying to blame China (or India, etc.) is wrong. This is simply our politicians refusing to admit to their own failures to pass laws and regulations that are best for our country as a whole and not just for lining their own pockets." -- Well put. Both parties, with the acquiescence of the American people, have over the last 20+ years led us to this point. We need a change in foreign trade policy, one that puts the focus on fair trade, governmental transparency, and bureacratic accountability. R2 in 2012!
China has stolen our technology and made stealing a way of life--and then we buy the products from them. Something wrong here. We just don't enforce reasonable sanctions against counterfeiting everything from designer clothing to electronics. It would be impossible to immediately fix this but we need to start down the right path. Currency manipulation is a problem re China but what about the Federal Reserve's ongoing manipulation of our currency--devaluing our dollar by artificially lowering interest rates?
Gerry,
Maybe I am just uninformed but I wasn't aware that the Federal government subsidizes WalMart to a massive degree. Do you mean the government provides welfare to WalMart workers or is what you are talking about some other kind of subsidy?
Michael
China has moved into a market economy with public, individual and privately owned economies for common development.
It is a global competitor.
Capitalists believe in competition, so we have no beef, except when it comes to being beaten by a competitor.
What is China's goal?
Development of diversified economic elements, with the public sector in dominance.
A unified and open market system, domestic and international, that fits into a modern enterprise system.
A distribution system that is based on efficiency and fairness. Promotion of optimal allocation of resources.
A macro-controlled economic system, mainly by indirect government means to achieve a so-called soft landing of an economy that grows too fast.
For it's people to achieve a high standard of living and modernization.
Development of a social security system to promote overall economic development and social stability.
Role of US outsourcing corporations and investment?
Through outsourcing and consumerism, we are supporting China in reaching their goals.
How corporation outsourcing benefits themselves and China?
Lower capital costs for business enterprises in China.
Lower taxation in China.
Larger profits due to lower business and production costs.
Larger profit margins between costs and retail price, plus larger sales volume.
Profits for growth capital investors, and leveraged buyout companies.
Consumers pay lower retail price, and increase purchasing of goods made in China.
Cost to US?
Less diversified economic elements in the private sector.
Micro-economic system of supply and demand. When the demand decreases, so does supply.
Stagnant wage growth, even in light of growing profits, decreases demand or moves demand to cheaper products.
This results in less domestic production of products, plant closures, job losses.
Lower standard of living for the majority of people due to the economic changes that result from the shift in production to outsourced locations.
Decreasing middle class.
Economic imbalance from protectionism of wealth through tax advantages and entitlements, shifting burden on middle and lower income brackets, resulting in less spendable income.
Many Walmart workers get income and age based entitlements. Medical, subsidized housing, food stamps etc....If you are a single mom working for $8.00 an hour, which is their starting wage, you qualify for nearly every entitlement that is income based.
It appears China is moving ahead and the US is moving backwards now.
Alot of that moving backwards came through the tickle down economic policies of Reagan-Bush.
Clinton gave us more growth and while there was the beginning of a recession at the end of Clinton's term, we don't know to what degree that recession would have gone, or how long it would have lasted. It could have been one of the many recessions that is part of the cyclic nature of capitalism.
The recession was dealt with through spending on the military industrial complex of two unfunded wars.
Then the burst of the housing bubble, and the almost near collapse of our economic system, which expanded globally.
In comes Obama, with that reality on his shoulders, and which the Republicans expect he should have solved in 3+ years. The reality is that we cannot get out of a even a less serious recession in less than 8-12 years.
So what can be done to better our lot? Some suggestions...
Tax all income as income, including capital gains and dividends.
Close all tax havens. Give a short tax reduction on the repatriation of money in tax havens.
Follow Obama's tax plan, including raising taxes on the highest tax bracket. Give tax breaks for money deployed to start large and small businesses.
Raise taxes on profits for companies that outsource jobs and start businesses in foreign countries such as China.
Develop economic diversification.
Rebuild manufacturing in the US.
Look at how we can return to a distribution system that is based on efficiency and fairness, and the promotion of optimal allocation of resources.
Have as a goal for the US workers to achieve a high standard of living and modernization, as is the goal of China.
Maintain our social security system as it currently is to promote overall economic development and social stability.
Establish a reasonable long term plan for paying down the debt, with prioritization of the most costly elements of the debt from an interest payment perspective.
Try to renegotiate interest rates on loans.
gerry,
"Many Walmart workers get income and age based entitlements. Medical, subsidized housing, food stamps etc....If you are a single mom working for $8.00 an hour, which is their starting wage, you qualify for nearly every entitlement that is income based."
LOL, shows what fools we are. I don't shop at Walmart, but till share in paying taxes to make up for the difference in wages for Walmart employees.
Man, how far we have come in my lifetime to really bad economics and injustice.
And Romney's plan increases the opportunity for companies to outsource and shelter money in tax havens. Here we come China! Bend over US!
40 years ago it was Japan and Taiwan making the cheap stuff, and now China is loosing to India and Vietnam for cheap labor. The letter is correct in that the majority people want the cheapest price and companies have to compete on price so cost of goods is a driving factor. Many of the factories have housing dorms for the workers because they travel a great distance to get a job,that is how bad they want to work, think you will ever see that happen here in the USA? This is an example of what drives the price.
Peter, India is now more expensive than China.
Forgot to add to my Suggestions in my 2nd post...
Close loopholes.
Bradley....
I normally agree with you on your posts but you're way off base on your take about FDR forcing the Japanese to attack us on December 7, 1941.
That's simply not true....
FDR was walking a very narrow tight rope all during the 1930's when it came to Japan. He tried to work with Japan but the Japanese weren't willing to do that.....
In defense of Japan, the United States, France & Great Britain had not given Japan the respect that she deserved in the years immediately after World War I.
Japan fought on the allied side during World War I and she was not included in the peace talks at Paris in 1919.
Japan felt that her effort during the "Great War" should entitle her to a place at the conference table with the US, Great Britain, France and Italy.....
That didn't happen.
What the Japanese wanted was some of Germany's colonial holdings in the Pacific....the "spoils of war."
Also, Japan had limitations place upon the size of her navy at the Washington Naval Conference in 1922. That was some 11 years before FDR became president.
Japan, before FDR ever became president, had started a policy of aggression in the Pacific and had made Korea a colony of Japan by the early 1930's.
Also the 1930's saw Japan invade China and start a military build-up that made Japan by far the largest and strongest military power in all of Asia...
What FDR atempted to do was to answer the ever increasing threat of Japan by applying economic sanctions to Japan and then increase our defense capabilities in the Pacific.....thus the increase in our navy's strength at Pearl Harbor and other American holdings...
The Japanese felt that they were a "superior race" and had been chosen to rule all of Asia. Hitler often referred to the Japanese as "yellow Aryans."
What FDR did when it came to Japan is what Obama is doing with Iran......more or less!
You make it sound as if FDR could have kept us out of World War II if he hadn't used sanctions against Japan and hadn't demanded that Japan with draw from China....do I have that right?
In closing, Hitler had long wanted to attack the United States. He had dreams about bombing New York City and had his planners working on a long range bomber (long before we entered the war against Germany) that would be able to fly from France to New York, drop its bombs, and return home to the Third Reich...
There's pictures of the drawings of Hitler's long range bomber on the internet......
I hear people from time to time blame FDR for our entry into World War II. That's total nonsense!
We should be thankful that we had FDR in the White House when we did. The 1940 Peace Time Draft saved our back-side once war came.
Also, Lend-Lease saved Great Britain & Russia and made an allied victory possible.....
Of course, the America First Cmmittee was very much opposed to both the Peace Time Draft & Lend-Lease.....
In reply to "El_Lobo"; I just finished a comment to Mr. Casler, I'll be with you shortly in a response to your questions about my earlier post.
In reply to Michael Casler; thank you for your reply. Your comments have now brought me to bring forth my views on;
THE ROTTEN SMELL OF GREED; THE BUSINESS SECTOR OF AMERICA AND THEIR EMPLOYEES
PART ONE
America could be, and should be, with the ideological standards of the free enterprise system, by far the strongest economic nation in the world. The huge corporate / company and employee benefits sit right in front of each and every American. It makes no absolutely no difference whether the person is a business owner, a lower level executive, a supervisor, and or a line-worker. You just have to work hard for it. All within these structured socioeconomic groups have the ingredients for success, and they all are readily available.
As usual, as I've written about time after time, greed is the roadblock to success. Its negative effects are far-reaching. America is still falling, because the business sector and their employees cannot compromise to a level of what the best interests are that is industrious and fruitful for both sides.
In the workplace, are Americans as a whole still smart enough? Do Americans still possess the backbone to go the extra mile and harvest a product that is second to none in the world? Or, have business and employee greed, laziness and contempt for each other finally taken its toll on the former American economic giant?
What has lead up to the vicious cycles of economic demise that relates between business owners and their employees? Most employers nowadays believe their employees demands for higher salaries and benefit packages are detrimental to their overall successes, or, to even just their financial survival. It is fact; this is true of a fair percentage of businesses. However, not to those who are making record profits, and still want more.
However, the American workplace scenario is very common nowadays. These employees, in great numbers begin to experience the following; (1) Lack of security in retaining their job, which creates, next; (2) Job stress, and; (3) Poor overall morale. (4) And finally, lack of productivity.
PART TWO
Of course, over time, the American product has become overpriced and is no longer a valued or dependable product. This has happened, for most of us elders, within one's lifetime on a virtual sliding scale. Profits are lost, jobs vanish, salaries and benefits of those remaining are cut, while their job responsibilities swell to humanly insurmountable levels. These are all ingredients for failure.
So, what does the employer resort to in a global economy to make a huge profit? They outsource their operations to countries like India and China. Cheap labor that is controlled in every aspect by the government, low overhead, and a low-priced product that although is inferior to a once, top of line American product, these now second class pirated products from overseas is nevertheless embraced for purchase by a majority of Americans. Yes, it is true; many of these Americans now have little or no other choices.
Now, we see our government in the midst of going broke. Gee, how surprising. What's next in line for America? Will somebody like Mitt Romney in the White House decide whatever government operations are not to be cut, should be outsourced to China. Now there is an idea!
If this were so, it would be common sense to think that, in seemingly a short time, the government shall be turning huge surpluses. However, America will become under the thumb of the Central Chinese Communist government. Then, America would have no worries. We could all continue to live our lazy and lackadaisical lifestyles. Hell, what makes the difference? Our debt owed to China now makes us subservient to them. Don't blame China, for they outsmarted America, and we, all here in the United States, in some form, allowed it to all happen.
I got some factual news for you Michael. We can throw all the political party rhetoric of our choice at each other, and nothing is going to change the point that both the American business sector and the majority of the employee workforce here in America will embrace a province like Macau. Guess who is in absolute authority there?
Bradley,
I agree with much of what you said. We are our own worst enemy. Much of business is very greedy, as are many Americans, from rich to poor. We want to get paid a high wage for low skilled work. Many of us feel entitled and are lazy at the same time. We don't finish school or try hard in school; we have sex early, often and recklessly and without marriage. We recklessly create children. We give up on relationships at the first sign of trouble and go find a new one. We buy the least expensive products and services we can find, no matter who provides them. We want very low taxes and very high government spending and even though we live in a country where we CAN control our own government, we let government control US instead.
No President and no Congress can change all that and it is sad.
BTW: My minor in college was history and I know a lot about the history around WWII. I understand the point you were trying to make, but Japan wanted to be the big dog in the Pacific Asian area and control natural resources that did not exist in Japan. One country stood in their way and that was America. Yamamoto admitted that Japan would have to confront America eventually and he was not initially in favor of a pre-preemptive strike. However, although we precipitated the strike against Pearl Harbor by our policies and action, Japan would have fought us eventually in any case.
Michael
Bradley,
Let me say also that I understand your point about Macau and that the Peoples Republic of China controls much of what happens there. I know you see that as a model of what we should strive to be.
I disagree. All systems have flaws and our does too. I would prefer not to have the government have that much control. I know you see it differently, and I respect your view and that of others. I just disagree.
Michael
In reply to "El_Lobo"; you brought up some quite interesting points of view in history back into the times preceding the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and the U.S. involvement in WWII.
However, I disagree that the times of "FDR" and his handling of Japan prior to the Pearl Harbor attack is the same as present day in our dealings with Iran. Though the situation may be similar on the surface, the "root variables" differ quite drastically.
I've always liked Ron Paul's philosophy on foreign affairs. You do business, if possible, with other nations, but you don't get involved in their politics. In my eyes, unequivocally, the United States should have within our borders the strongest defenses, and the most deadly weapons and soldiering forces on the planet. But, we mind our own business. However, in our recent past, our global need of world influence / domination does not in present day allow America to become a neutral country. It's too late for that. A serious mistake that was initially made in modern times and one of which I personally hold FDR accountable for initiating.
This is not to say that America would have avoided WWII with Nazi Germany. However, I do believe the war could have easily been avoided with Japan. I do not like either proposed and or enacted "New World Orders" that come about in any fashion. I care deeply about America. That is my priority. Although I'm understanding and logical about situations, as I was as a U.S. Marine with a great deal of knowledge, wisdom and experience from the Far East, my personal views and priorities are of America at all junctures and its progressions and well-being as a totally independent, and of course soverign nation.
But over the past decades, this has been disappearing, and this disturbs me greatly.
As well, "El_Lobo", I too agree with the majority of your posts. But, respectfully, my friend, not on this issue of FDR.
Just like we should not blame China where we are as a country now, we should not blame Japan on what brought our two countries to war. We must look at ourselves here in America, and take strict accountability for our actions / inactions.
In reply to Michael Casler; oh, no, no, no!!! Michael, don't even play that political schemer game with me here in this discussion forum. I'm not about any "Communist Model"!!!
That is NOT what I think America should strive to be. I SAID, that is what America is becoming and will ultimately accept if we as a country continue on our same path.
And we would all be responsible for it. You are now classified in my eyes as a "Commentary Manipulator". You should be ashamed of yourself, Michael!!! But, you are a Republican voter; I would never expect you to look at yourself and your own faults that contribute to the state of our country now!!!
Bradley,
Don't blow a gasket. I am not trying to manipulate you or your words. I just misunderstood your point. I apologize. Sorry about that. You sometimes seem to want to label me as a bad guy. I am not. I respect your opinions, although I often disagree with them.
I am a little confused. Almost all government people believe in big government regardless of what they tell you, at least once they are in government. Macau is run by big government with some free enterprise tossed in. President Obama comes right out and says he is for large government... and you support him. Can you explain?
Michael
Bradley.....
To continue what I said earlier about Hitler's desire/dream to bomb New York City...
google the following:
"Amerikabomber"
Very interesting stuff and clearly points out that Hitler believed that sooner or later Germany would be at war against the United States.
Keep in mind that Hitler believed that a democracy, such as the United States, was incapable of fighting a "knock down & drag out war" and fighting boys produced by a democratic government were weak mentally & physically....
He believe that one Reich soldier was worth 4-5 American soldiers....
Actually many of the Japanese believed the same thing....
Of course, Yamamoto. the Japanese naval commander, didn't believe that.....
He believed that if the Japanese were going to defeat the United States, it had to happen with in the first 6-9 months of fighting...
He was very much aware of our huge industrial/military potential and knew that a prolonged war favored the United States...
Bradley,
I honestly feel sorry for any President that has to conduct American foreign policy. If we leave the Middle East for example, other powers will fill the vacuum left there, including China, Russia and Islamic Fundamentalists. If we stay, it is difficult to remain neutral when so many players want us involved 'on terms they control'.
I believe that Islamic fundamentalists will come for us, just as Japan did in WWII, because we are an impediment to their goal, which is domination of the world by Islamic Fundamentalism. We are the dominant non Islamic nation in the world and we must be disposed of for them to reach their goal.
If we bankrupt ourselves, both morally and financially by intervention, we do the fundamentalist's jobs for them. If we totally remove ourselves, we lose track of what is happening and any opportunity to shape events and we set ourselves up to be attacked... as on 9/11.
It's a fine line to walk, and I do not envy Obama or Romney as either man may have to walk that tightrope.
Michael
In reply to Michael Casler; Macau is ruled by Communist China. Republican supporters and casino moguls just love to build and invest there. And, the Republicans say they are for the American way of a fair and just "free enterprise" system with limited government?
What a line of bull that is filled with lies and contradictions. Republicans could care less where their profits come from, just as long as they get those profits with absolutely no thought of where and at whose expense they are obtaining those profits from. Even outside of America, no big deal to Republicans that the majority of the Chinese labor forces work in environments that are in violation of almost every human right there is.
Can you explain?
Read the history of why unions came into existence in this country. If it weren't for the Democrats in politics to give Republicans legal moments of pause, I would be sure this political party of bandits would be running over the American line-worker just like the Chinese Communist government does to their people. However, since business owners can only go so far with violating employee rights here in America, the Republican see places like Macau as a mecca of golden opportunities, and a slap in the face to the American workforce. Now Michael, who is the communist sympathizer?
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that many in the middle-class line-worker force, and lower socioeconomic classes have either given up or are close to conceding defeat. Michael, this should tell you what the country, as a whole, the heart of America, are on the brink of.
Bradley said:
"Just like we should not blame China where we are as a country now, we should not blame Japan on what brought our two countries to war. We must look at ourselves here in America, and take strict accountability for our actions / inactions."
Sorry but I disagree with you on the Japanese walk toward war. The Japanese, due largely to the fact that they were a nation will limited natural resources, and a growing population, not to mention a "yellow Aryan attitude," had made up their mind much, much earlier that they were going to take what ever they needed to survive...
Even today, Japan imports approximately 80% of the food that they consume. Their growing population during the 1920's & 1930's was a major problem for them & with the take over of their foreign policy by the Japanese military, it was inevitable that they were going to become a big time aggressor in the Pacific...
They took over Korea during the 1930's & they invaded China during the same time period. They treated other Asians as sub-human and had very little respect for Europeans and Americans...
Early on they planned to become the rulers of all Asia & the western Pacific.....
Their belief in "Bushido" ..........."the way of the warrior", dominated their thinking...
This was a throw back to the Age of the Samurai......Nothing was more honorable that being a warrior. To die in battle was to serve your country and honor your relatives......
Surrender was unacceptable and dishonorable.....
FDR did what he had to do..... He could have ignored Japan & her aggression but I doubt that things would have ended up any differently.
Thank god for the 1940 Peace Time Draft & the passage of Lend-Lease......
In reply to "El_Lobo"; thank you for the infomation, I will google "Amerikabomber" tonight.
In reply to "Michael Casler"; politics is a fine line to walk, however, the line is not invisible!
In reply to "El_Lobo";I always respect a leader whose heart is in the right place. I believe you are right, that FDR did what he felt he had to do at the time.
However, many decades later, as a "Monday Morning Quarterback", per se, I do not agree with the paths he took against the Japanese. This does not mean I don't respect him as a former President.
I have many disagreements with Barack Obama, however, once again, I know his heart is in the right place. He deserves my vote, and will certainly receive my vote.
Should I had lived back during the FDR presidency as an adult, I'm quite sure I would have voted for him, as well.
Bradley said:
"However, many decades later, as a "Monday Morning Quarterback", per se, I do not agree with the paths he took against the Japanese. This does not mean I don't respect him as a former President."
I must ask....what do you think FDR should have done in terms of the Japanese?
Was he wrong by using sanctions against them?
Was he wrong when he froze their bank assets in this country?
Was he wrong to tell them that the sanctions would not be lifted until they removed their troops from China?
Keep in mind that we had broken the Japanese Code (Code Blue & later Code Purple..) & we were reading most of their messages, and it became evident early on that they were going to use military force some place in the western Pacific..
We had no idea where or when but we thought that it might be in the Philippines.....
Pearl Harbor was ruled out by our military intelligence because of the great distance the Japanese navy would have had to travel across an open ocean to Hawaii....
We had been tracking their fleet movements for months & didn't see how they could pull off a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.....
Yet they did!
Again, what should FDR have done?
peacelily: I must say I agree with much of your thoughts. As for others commenting, many of you make a 100% wrong statement. China is NOT a communist country. It is nothing close to communism. The party name may be communist but the country is a socialist government and has been for many decades now. In fact, daily life in China today is little different than daily life in the USA. True, migrant workers still often come from the mountainous west to the big cities of the east and many still live in dorms, but those are far fewer than twenty years ago. Life has dramatically improved all over China and their government is largely responsible for that and loved by their people. Currency manipulation? Not really. The cost of autos, consumer goods, hotels, et al, is much the same as here in terms of US$. Only food is somewhat cheaper through government support to feed their many people. Read "China: In My Eyes" (Amazon.com) to learn more about China today. It is a far different place than you think - unless you have spent recent time there.
A Bit More - If the Chinese government does things to support and help their country and people economically, isn't that what governments should do! I would ask why our government, particularly Congress, doesn't do the same? Perhaps the greed of American businesses, which many of you have mentioned, gets in the way of good policy for the country as a whole?
Blame congress and worthless state legislators who are owned by mining and casinos. Ultimately the blame lies with the dumb voter who puts the berkelys, hellers, sandovals, reids and other embarassments in office. Until the dumb voter grows brains and stops voting according to media bias and other influences this will continue to happen until the country I founded becomes bankrupt and defunct ala rome.
Robert Sanelle,
I have a Portuguese friend who lives in Macau and whose job takes him all over China.
I must say that the average American impression of China is far from reality, and way behind.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful article.
China has changed a great deal, and continues toward it's goals for the nation and it's people.
You are correct, China is not "communist", it is "socialist", and there is a difference.
There are certainly different and conflicting views on the role of government here, and as a result of the smaller government, bigger profits and bigger war machine philosophy, we are going backwards, not competing.
I agree that China is doing what it should be doing for its people and nation.
I would like to add something else.
China is doing some smart trading strategies that will effect us negatively.
We have spent decades playing the bully with other nations in trading. We have abused our neighbors with our outsourcing,and resource gathering that has damaged the sustainability of other nations and populations of their people.
Some of these nations are changing on their own and working together for their benefit, as well as opening trade with countries other than the US.
China now follows in on our mistakes and is growing in new partnerships, not only for markets, but for resources. In some they trade in the local currency, rather than the reserve dollar currency, whose stability is questionable.
If they can treat these nations better than we did, all may prosper better than the "deals" we offered. If they follow our example, it will be transitory.
The dogmatic hallelujahs and self back patting of capitalism in the US is going to be our undoing, unless we start understanding that we are in a different game.
For one thing, we cannot preach human rights at the same time that we violate them.
Robert, I agree with your statement...
"If the Chinese government does things to support and help their country and people economically, isn't that what governments should do! I would ask why our government, particularly Congress, doesn't do the same? Perhaps the greed of American businesses, which many of you have mentioned, gets in the way of good policy for the country as a whole?"
Additionally, brainwashing isn't limited to "socialist" countries. We have a fair amount of it going on here for purposes of self interest, money and power. It is often laced with fear or labeling someone a "communist sympathizer" or "socialist".
We in the US need to get a more current view of the entire world, and join it, instead of hanging on to our past and watching our diminishment from stubborn pride.
The history that others have written about here teaches that nothing stays the same, and aberrant self importance leads to downfall.
"In reply to "El_Lobo"; since we are both Democratic voters, I've attempted to conclude in our disagreements over our "FDR" positions, that both of us could "save face" in this discussion room to avoid conflict between us. "FDR" was only used by me, in my previous posts as an example, and not really germane to the discussion at hand. However, you persist on in challenging me on my personal knowledge and opinions of "FDR".
So, I will, this time only, fill in your gaping holes of your historical knowledge. After this, I'm moving on, because I find this conversation quite boring. Bear in mind, that when I said in an earlier post that I would have voted for "FDR", that would have been actively during the WWII timeframe, not after the truth has come out on "FDR" in 1994.
The most straight signal of antipathies toward Japan from "FDR" is the McCollum Memo written October 7th 1940. It was declassified in 1994. This document was given to "FDR" and the actions that were later taken by "FDR" are in collaboration with that memo. "FDR" was then quoted as saying, "Now, sooner or later the Japanese will commit an overt act against the United States and the nation will then be willing to enter the war'."
Here are the contents of the "McCollum memo";
"It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado; and it is barely possible that vigorous action on our part might lead the Japanese to modify their attitude. Therefore, the following course of action is suggested:
Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore.
Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies.
Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil.
Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire.
If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept the threat of war."
- H. McCollum
This sounds like to me George W. Bush was a student of "FDR" practices and policies when it came to his advisors. Are you sure you're not a closet worshipper of George W. Bush?
Need I remind both Republican and Democrats that in, April of 1989 students protested in Beijing's Tiananmen Square? They remained for more than a month. These students were joined by many other Chinese workers. The Chinese "COMMUNIST" regime brought in army units that used extreme violence to crush the movement. A wave of repression followed, that still exists to this day.
I can't believe the posts in this discussion room of both Republicans and Democrats. The Republicans believe, "Live better, build and invest in China." The Democrats believe, "Live better, buy Chinese." And the government of the United States says, "Let us not worry about debt, the Chinese COMMUNIST government will buy our debt and take care of us." Both political parties in this discussion forum disgust me!!!
Robert.....
I blame republican greed for sending our jobs to
COMMUNIST CHINA.
Greedy republicans are using COMMUNIST SLAVE LABOR
for their own greed.
The CHINESE SWEAT-SHOP is a hell-hole for slave
workers.
Some Chinese companies have had workers jump off
the roof protesting bad working conditions.
Do American CEO'S care?
Hell no.
IT'S ALL ABOUT REPUBLICAN GREED!
No, Bradley, you don't have to remind me of 1989, 22 years ago.
No matter what you call China (Peoples Republic of China), is a socialist state. It has an interesting political structure called the United Front. That includes the Communist Party and 8 minor parties. Totalitarian, but loosening.
North Korea (Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea had all references to Communism removed from its Constitution in 2009. It is currently an independent single party socialist state. Totalitarian.
The Republic of Cuba is a Marxist-Leninist socialist state with a loosening of totalitarianism.
Viet Nam is a nominally Marxist--Leninist single-party state. Totalitarian.
Russia was called the United Soviet Socialist Republic, and was totalitarian. Russia is now a federal semi-presidential constitutional republic.
No socialist country has met the "Communist" ideal.
Many Americans don't have a full understanding of socialism, and apply the term loosely and pejoratively to many countries political systems incorrectly.
There are many types of socialism, applied in many ways.
The term is often used by Americans to describe a social welfare system, which really reflects a governments recognition that it represents the interests of the people as an important commitment in good governance.
Some of the government types that have social welfare programs include:
Federal parliamentary constitutional republic
Federal republic with a directorial system and a direct democracy
Constitutional monarchy, Unitary parliamentary representative democracy.
Unitary semi-presidential constitutional republic
Back to China...
Nobody is saying that there isn't political repression in China, based on their laws, nor human rights abuses.
We are focusing on the economic changes in China, and how that relates to their people and the world.
The US has it's own political repressions and while we haven't resorted to tanks in the streets to deal with protesters, we have the legal authority to do that now. Authorities have also responded with violence and force. First Amendment rights have been abused at various times since the 60's. We even have or have had human rights abuses nationally and internationally.
So, it may be a matter of degrees of difference between one country and another.
I think it is important to see the developments in countries and not forever cast them into a single category. China is changing, Cuba is changing. North Korea???
I must say that throughout my life, I have learned alot from the disagreements I have with what others say. It provokes me to research points of disagreement, which helps me learn more.
I know that you think deeply about what is shared here, and that adds to your respect for others and your understanding. I likewise respect you, Bradley.
And romney's company is STILL closing down
American facteries, firing Amereican workers and
sending their jobs to COMMUNIST CHINA, to this
very day.
Why any average American would vote for romney is
beyond belief.
The ignorance of these voters is staggering.
republican liars are still taking advantage of
many brain-dead Americans.
Start thinking people, don't let these republicans
lie their way back to power.
DON'T BE STUPID!
peacelily.....
Sorry to disagree but the COMMUNIST PARTY still
runs the show in China.
Still a COMMUNIST DICTATOR.
Still no democracy.
Still no voting.
Still a hell-hole for workers.
And I have some Chinese friends who now live and
work here tell me that they won't go back to
China in a million years.
teamster,
I am not defending China. I just can't stand that people take such ignorant views of a developing nation by today's standards.
We had our time of developing and had to go through many mistaken ideas, like slavery and more, before we got to the point we are at now.
To use your term, the "brain dead" thinking that labels instead of looks at the larger picture of today, is non-productive and leaves us at a disadvantage.
I am sure your friends wouldn't go back after experiencing the US, even with all our own problems. Not many of us have the ability to wait a lifetime for the evolution of economic and political systems, especially when it can take more than one lifetime. That doesn't mean evolution won't occur.
How do you feel when people demonize unions? There may be some real issues, but there is also some very good aspects of unions.
Wouldn't it be good if people could see the good and not emphasize the bad?
Same with almost everything. The trick is getting it all working in harmony or waiting for the evolution of each part to become a whole.
In reply to "PeaceLily"; you are quoted as writing, "Wouldn't it be good if people could see the good and not emphasize the bad?"
No, it would not be good. China is in fact a COMMUNIST country and operates by threats, intimidation, and whole actions of inhumane treatment of its people.
And, you have the audacity to cut down "Teamster" who is a man who stands on firm ground that promotes equality to all Americans?
I'm now clear on your political positions "PeaceLily". And I must tell you; these opinions are as disgraceful towards moderate Democrats as "Teabaggers" are towards truly moderate conservatives.
In closing, you stated, "I just can't stand that people take such ignorant views of a developing nation by today's standards."
<Laughing in disgust> And China needs more time to develop? They became a country when? The earliest written history dates to 1600 BC. It was already a country. China probably goes back to 5000 BC.
More time to develop, huh? Yeah, right!!!
"PeaceLily"; you do know the "Communist Party USA" has a presidential candidate. Why portray yourself as an Obama supporter? You should vote where your personal opinions are; that would be the Communist Party candidate for President. They, like you, do not believe in any form of capitalism.
Teamster et al:
Poverty and slavery [without guilt] breeds communism. As the Chinese people accumulate more wealth and more thirst for freedoms [like the Americans], democracy is a natural outgrowth. The Chinese goverment and dictators will have no choice but to reform its ways. Else be overthrown. Recall Tianneman Square.
CarmineD
And Peacelily finally admits she favors socialism. When you include her idea to split the United States into 4 separate countries, you can only conclude that the democratic party is very extreme indeed.
slave labor
Peaclily,
They are bloodying you up the last couple of days.
Amercians like a fighter! Come off the canvass and get back in the fight.
Bradley is smart, I like his comments. You would do good by debating your position with him. The others, they just don't get it.
Bradley....
The "true you" has come out of the closet.
Yes, I'm a Democrat and very proud of it. I'm not sure you're a big "D" Democrat but that's OK!
You can be a small "D" Democrat and still be part of what the Democrat Party in all about...
The great thing about the Democrat Party is that we open our doors to anyone and everyone. Unlike the Republicans, we allow people with various opinions and beliefs to join our ranks..
We have a great deal of diversity with in our ranks...
That's certainly not true with the present day GOP. They have NO liberals/progressives in their ranks & very, very few moderates.....
The "tea baggers" (shame on me for using that term..) have taken over the GOP and they're driving the bus. Anyone who disagrees with then is immediately thrown under the bus...
At times we Democrats appear to be unorganized and at times it appears that we're fighting each other instead of the opposition. That's our nature!
I'm reminded what Will Rogers said about the Democrat Party...To paraphrase Will:
"I don't belong to a political party...I'm a Democrat."
You're entitled to your beliefs about FDR & American's entry into World War II.
Of course, you have swallowed "hook, line & sinker" the latest revisionist information about the war & it appears that you actually believe that we could have avoided war with Japan if FDR had not forced Japan's hand in the Pacific...
Let's go down that road for a mile or two...OK?
What SHOULD FDR have done when dealing with the Japanese?
They had invaded China, and made Korea a colony.
They brutally tortured, killed and maimed anyone who opposed them & they had let it be known that they believed they were superior to all other people in Asia.
Their goal was to control/dominate all of Asia. They called it the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
The "sphere" would control ALL of Asia politically, militarily and economically...
Hitler hit the nail on the head with his description of the Japanese. He called them "Yellow Aryans."
MORE TO FOLLOW.....
AND.....
Back to FDR....tell me what FDR should have done when it came to the Japanese?
Ignore them?
Allow them to invade, over run and dominate all of Asia and sit quietly by and watch them move their dominance across the Pacific until they were on the very door step of the west coast?
Are you saying that FDR should not have imposed sanctions on them & should not have frozen their assets in this country?
By 1939 we had broken the Japanese code and were reading many but not all of their messages and we believed that it was only a matter of time until the Japanese attacked us some place in the Pacific..
Our military believed that attack would take place in the Philippines...
Of course, as I mentioned earlier, Adolf Hitler was determined to. (sooner or later) bomb New York City.
He looked forward to a war against the United States and be believed that soldiers from a democracy would be not be able to hold their own against his Aryan Germans....
Did you google the word "Amerikabomber?"
The Japanese, signed a military pact with both Germany & Italy prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. If we ended up going to war against Germany & Italy, could we have still avoided a war against Japan?
I'm interested in your reply......I haven't said anything about the McCollum memo as yet, but I will...
RefNV said:
"And Peacelily finally admits she favors socialism. When you include her idea to split the United States into 4 separate countries, you can only conclude that the democratic party is very extreme indeed."
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Absolutely nothing new coming from RefNV....
He continues to paint with a very broad brush and believes that one size fits all...
RefNV:
Read my previous post about the Democrat Party. What I believe and what many other Democrats believe isn't always exactly the same thing....
It's called diversity....minor differences of opinion....good for the party!
I realize that RefNV, as a member of the GOP, isn't allowed to have a opinion that's different from what other people in the GOP may believe...
That kind of thing will get some one such as RefNV kicked out of the party....thrown under the bus.
China is going through unbelievable change and the future of China, and what kind of government China will have 50-75 years from now is any body's guess....
I have felt for a long, long time, however, that we in this country have failed to hold the Chinese government's "feet to the fire" when it comes to human rights....
Both parties have failed to do that, but recently it has been the Republicans who have decided that trade with China.......that is, seeing American corporations make billions and billions of dollars in profit is a great deal more important that holding China accountable on human rights...
Yes, China is a communist country. Matter if fact, it's the largest communist country in the world.
The continued development of a middle class in China brings up the question of, "at what point in time will that growing middle class in China start to demand a greater voice in the government and what will be the reaction of the ruling communist party to that demand?"
China is getting ready to change its communist leadership at the top.....Not a great deal is known about the man who will take over.
Will he continue to push China's economic development and be willing to allow greater freedom among the citizens of China, or will he attempt to continue to push for economic development but stand firmly against any improvement in the area of human right?
It will be interesting to see what happens, won't it?
BChap - I think it is sad to see how you keep commenting on China when you appear to know so little about China. Again, China is NOT communist, nor even particularly close to the Soviet model. T-Square was over two decades ago and would never happen in China today. The Chinese government learned from that. Have you forgotten Kent State? We here in the USA watch our freedoms get further restricted EVERYDAY. Free enterprise has become a joke with the severe limitations placed upon it including right here in Las Vegas where one cannot, e.g., even sell bottles of water on the strip. The people in China are MUCH freer than the average American today to start a business. You need to either travel to China or read more about contemporary China to get current. You are way off base about China.
Bradley, you are very wrong and unjust about me. Your need to insult me shows you completely misunderstand what I wrote, and my intentions, as you do China.
I am a Democrat, and I support Obama! I believe in a social safety net, as most Democrats do.
I think Romney will be a disaster for our country, as he returns us to the policies that have led to our current economic recession.
I believe that Obama's policies are correct and steady for moving us out of this recession.
I attacked nobody, including Teamster.
If you think so badly of me, as your comments portray, you are free to ignore me.
You do owe me an apology for your injustice! However, I don't expect I will ever get one.
I do agree with Robert Stanelle, who appears to have an accurate understanding of China today.
I would never think of calling him a "Communist" because he understands the reality of China.
In reply to "OldBob" (Robert Stanelle);I see you are a relatively new commentator to the Las Vegas Sun discussion rooms. You should know from the "git-go", I could care less about the opinions of most commentators in this forum. I'm an independent thinker, and my opinions and loyalties are of the same qualities.
What I find repulsive is commentators who sit back and enjoy the freedoms of democracy while politically speaking, they seemingly are wearing a "coolie hat" with a bright Communist Chinese star on it.
Carmine,
"Poverty and slavery [without guilt] breeds communism. As the Chinese people accumulate more wealth and more thirst for freedoms [like the Americans], democracy is a natural outgrowth."
I agree with you on this, Carmine. This has been my belief for many decades.
Bradley, you are sounding like a right wing fanatic, bordering on fascist.
Take some deep breaths and relax! Maybe some oxygen to your brain will help you.
I'm not apologizing to you for nothing. And, I don't owe you anything. As you stated earlier, "ignorant views", (relating to both me and "Teamster";I replied to you in the following manner. "I said what I meant, and I mean what I say."
If you don't like it, "TOUGH"!
Ok, Bradley, have it your way! It is unimportant what you think.
I'm so surprised that a "PeaceLily" of such self-proclaimed utopian qualities is resorting to such harsh language.
In reply to Republicans; this discussion forum proves beyond any "shadow of a doubt" the huge difference between a Democrat and a Communist. The Democrat is a moderate, the Communist is an extremist.
"Just because a cat hangs out with a dog, does make that cat a dog." <B. Chapline>
Longtimevega,
Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it.
Sometimes, people don't realize how cruel they can be. It is in those times that they reveal who they really are.
I still express my opinions, even if misjudged.
To clarify Bradley's direct or indirect unjust and libelous classification of me. I am NOT a Communist!
Peacelily,
You are one of the best commentators in this discussion room. So, I want to thank you and I know others who feel exactly the same way I do! I admire you, I respect you, and I thank you for everything you do each and every day! I know exactly how you feel and I am so impressed that you still forge ahead.
Thank you!!!!!!
Thank you, kepi, you are so kind and I also admire and respect you and your efforts. You contribute some very sincere and thoughtful comments.
Keep up the good work and be the good person you are.
BChap - You may or may not be an independent thinker as you say. But that doesn't change the fact that you are flat out "independently" WRONG about the China of today. I would recommend you read "Red Star Over China" for historical perspective (written by an American) and "China: In My Eyes" for a more contemporary viewpoint. It is good to see some other comments here show an understanding of contemporary China. You should pay attention to them.
By the way, for those who wish to label me, I am a true independent. I refer to myself as a "liberal humanist," meaning I support only change that I believe betters the human condition as a global entity.
Well, I see this debate forum has turned into the "Mutual Admiration Club". How nice.
Gee, I wonder what is going to take place in lovely, loving China on November 8th of this year. Could it be the convening of China's Communist Party Congress?
To put China's ownership of U.S. debt in perspective, its holding of $1.2 trillion is even larger than the amount owned by American households. U.S. citizens hold only about $959 billion in U.S. debt.
While American companies are constantly moving operations to China and American consumers prefer the cheaper made Chinese goods, 2.8 million American manufacturing jobs have been lost to Communist China.
This is just great. This whole discussion forum is highlighted by American ignorance. The Republican business sector sells out America, and the consumers of America bolster the Chinese Communist economy. Talk about a bunch of economic turncoats, defectors, deserters, and collaborators all rolled into not only a discussion room, but the American society as a whole!!!
peacelily.......
I understand your point of view but you didn't
respond to the point that I was making.
I am still saying that our middle class was
destroyed by greedy republicans sending millions
of our good paying jobs to COMMUNIST CHINA.
This is why we still have a lack of jobs in our
own country.
And republicans being anti-union, are turning
our workers into minimum wage workers who will
work until they die.
This is why I say that average Americans would
have to be brain-dead to vote for another greedy
republican who already has a track record of
firing American workers for his companies profit.
romney/ryan are both snakes in the grass and
some Americans are still being fooled by these
greedy republicans.
I believe that blue collar Americans come first.
BChap.....
YES, greedy republicans sold out American workers.
"Teamster"; even a lot of Democrats just don't get it. They have proved it in this discussion room. Look at the love for Communist China they have. My numbers above in my post are factual. The Republicans sell us out to China, and the American consumers buy from China and write lovely stories about that country. Meanwhile, we are becoming a broken and subserviant nation to COMMUNIST China.
Brad......
Yes, too many Americans still don't get it.
Our only hope is that young people get it.
Or they will be working minimum wage jobs for
the rest of their lives.
As a member of the Teamsters Union, I have been
fighting for workers and workers rights for
most of my adult life.
UNIONS FOREVER!
teamster,
I agree with you about the cause of the ongoing demise of the middle class. It is also an effect of supply-side economics.
Romney's plan is supply-side [trickle down], yet he is saying in his campaign...
"we are tired of trickle down" LOL
I have more bad news for you. I just read a very interesting article that China is at a crossroads.
The are shifting from being the world's factory to an industrial power. Get ready for more goods from Viet Nam and Cambodia.
Romney has changed his 5 Point Plan. Could we expect anything else from the chameleon?
You know "Teamster", it is a hard pill to swallow when we have worked our entire adult lives to make America a better place only to see our works spiraling downward.
But what is even worse, is during the times of American vulnerability when Communists sit here in America, in the comfort of democracy, with a smirk on their face, and make smug remarks about the potential economic surge of other developing Communist countries. Somehow it just doesn't seem right. But, history shows life isn't fair.
Watch your back, "Teamster"!!!
With the loss of millions of jobs to China its going to take a lot more time that most people realize to bring the US economy around...
I find it funny that Mitt Romney is telling us that he, as president. would be tough on China.
Is this the same Mitt Romney, who as the head CEO of Bain Capital, sent jobs off shore to such places as China and India?
Is this the same guy who has said repeatly that he loves to fire people?
Is this the same guy who said that 47% of Americans are "moochers" and not only that, they refuse to take responsibility for themselves?
Is this the same guy who said that he wasn't in favor of saving the American automobile industry, and the best thing for the industry would be to allow it to go bankrupt?
Is this same guy who would not say simply "yes" or "no" when ask whether or not he was in favor of the Lilly Ledbetter Law?
Is this the same guy who said that his first job as president would be the total repeal of Obamacare and then a short time later said that he actually liked certain parts of Obamacare & would keep those parts in play?
Don't forget to vote ob November 6th!!
I vote for Mitt Romney is a vote to go back to the policies of George W Bush.....
El_Lobo........
YES, romney has proven to be the BIGGEST FLIP-
FLOPPER of all time.
We will NEVER be able to trust this guy.
And all of his horrible plans stink to high
Heaven.
They don't add up and never will.
ROMNEY IS WORSE THAN BUSH!
And worse on top of worse.....
If 65 year old romney wins and suddenly flops
over, Paul Ryan would be president.
HOLY CRAP!!!