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September 17, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Seeing comments in the light of day

During Thursday’s vice presidential debate, I hope Joe Biden asks Paul Ryan the following question — one that should have been hammered home again and again during the first presidential debate: “Which Mitt Romney should the American people believe? The one speaking for the cameras, standing on stage and over and over again expressing his concern for the middle class, and for the ‘100 percent’ of Americans?”

Or the Romney who, earlier this year, at that Florida fundraiser for wealthy donors, spoke not for the cameras, but from the heart. The Romney who wrote off almost half of the country as “victims” and moochers and said, point blank, that it wasn’t his job to worry about them, because they wouldn’t vote for him anyway.

Of course, Romney could speak from his heart then, because he thought his comments would never see the light of day.

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  1. Senator Obama was for gay marriage. The presidential candidate Obama was against gay marriage. Now, President Obama running for reelection is for gay marriage. Where President Obama stands depends on where he sits.

    CarmineD

  2. "Which Mitt Romney should the American people believe?

    Answer : NONE of them!

  3. Mr. Powers..... STOP! Romney's comment about the 47 % was just like Obama's comment when he said '...you didn't build that...'

    I am quite sure that the President was trying to convey the fact that what government does is necessary in order for entrepreneurs to do what they do. I am also quite sure that Romney was telling his audience that 'during' the election, he cannot spend all his time trying to convince a portion of Americans that support President Obama and his policies to vote for Romney.

    I think President Obama is President of all Americans and I think Romney, if elected, would be President of all Americans.

    We all need to toss this party and media created claptrap out the window and concentrate on issues.

    Neither candidate has presented an economic plan that has much chance of doing what either man claims his plan will do. Knowing that, we each must decide which man's philosophy and proposals are 'closer' to what we believe and then vote for that man.

    If we get caught up in these kind of sideshows, we do ourselves and America a disservice.

    Michael

  4. Without getting side tracked by the 47% comment( which related only to the effort that Romney should invest in securing welfare recipient votes) the important issue is debate perfomance--command of facts and issues. In the next three debates, perfomance will mean everything. People are listening to the debate performance of the debators.

  5. If I were President Obama, and fortunately I'm not, or one of his supporters, again fortunately I'm not, I would pay careful attention to the testimony before Congress starting today on the terrorist attack on the Benghazi Consulate on 9-11 and murders of US AMB Chris Stevens and 3 of his security detail. The results will no doubt influence the outcome of the November 6, 2012 election. Obama knows it. In fact, President Obama knew it at the first debate in Denver and the reason I believe he lost miserably.

    CarmineD

  6. Is anyone, outside of the usual suspects, buying what the disconnected from reality conservatives posting here are selling?

  7. Gov.Romney's comment about the"47% as moochers, and freeloaders", was as close as he could put it,of who he really is and how he really feels.

    Pres.Obama's comment about "you didn't build It" was taken out of context.Anyone with half a brain who listens to both conversations in full, can hear Gov.Romney speaking of how he views almost half of the U.S. population (47% as moochers, and freeloaders ), and how Pres.Obama's words ("you didn't build It") were taken out of context.

  8. Rep. Paul Ryan in on record in regards to his political position the issues. This man has voted in congress in support of items many Americans do not agree with.

    Paul Ryan looks goods in front of the camera. He speaks with confidence and explains his position in a way that will convince someone, he knows the facts on the subject before him. However, this is not the case with the core items associated with Paul Ryan's budget.

    The Paul Ryan budget does not pencil out to benefit Americans as Paul Ryan claims. The main argument, Medicare and Medicaid.

    The Vice Presidential debates will be about facts, about numbers. The question many are asking, will Joe Biden and the moderator Candy Cowley allow Paul Ryan to distort or change the facts or the numbers, in the Paul Ryan budget directed at Medicare and Medicaid?

  9. Sam Pizzo gets close, but I love the false equivocation by Mike.

    First, Romney's speech to his donors was not just about convincing people to vote for him. Romney had visible, audible contempt for anyone who dared not earn a certain level of income. Romney said that these individuals view themselves as victims and he can't convince them to take responsibility for their own lives.

    A large number of the individuals Romney casually derided are hard-working; families making under $30,000 a year, single mothers who work several part-time jobs to support themselves and their families, college students trying to earn a degree to make a better life. They largely don't pay taxes because of tax credits, not because they're on welfare.

    People heard Romney's attacks on these hard-working folks and recoiled. Romney's poll numbers took a hit, and Romney's now apologizing profusely.

    Contrast that with Obama's speech about business owners needing interstate highways, schools and other public resources. The GOP took 4 words out of a speech and MADE IT THEIR CONVENTION THEME. It got no traction because people were smart enough they understood what Obama had actually said. There's simply no comparison.

  10. As long as the subject is Romney's proposals, not Ryan's, I'll be fine. We are not electing Ryan or Biden. If what Biden appears to be were used as a big part of whether one votes for President Obama, the President could not be re-elected. As long as the same yardstick is used for Ryan, that will be fair.

    Ryan should be there to defend Romney's philosophy and positions; Biden the same for Obama.

    I hope the moderator keeps to that track. If she does, it will be a good and fair debate.

    Michael

  11. @Mike Casler,

    "Mr. Powers..... STOP! Romney's comment about the 47 % was just like Obama's comment when he said '...you didn't build that..." (Mike Casler)

    President Obama comments were in the contents of explaining how the US government has allowed and assisted commerce to thrive in American. Such as building the interstate highways across America. Plus, the President made his words known to everyone in the country, he didn't hide behind closed doors speaking to wealthy donors.

    On the other hand........,

    ....Republican Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney was behind closed doors, speaking to wealthy donors, away from the public view, speak honestly as Mitt Romney has done in the past when in a group of people known as the one-percent. In addition, Mitt Romney went further to explain, in his view, the 47% by saying they will not take personal responsibility for their lives, and "he" is not concerned about them.

    Mitt Romney is not a Presidential candidate of good character. This will be Mitt Romney's down fall. You can only lie, distort, and say misleading statements so many times. This is not the kind of President America needs or wants.

  12. @Future,

    "Romney spoke the truth that 47 percent will always vote for Obama no matter what. That is no lie in the context of the question he responded to" (Future)

    Your statement is correct. Mitt Romney spoke the truth as Mitt Romney knows the truth.

    Republican President candidate Mitt Romney spoke from the heart, he said exactly his conclusions to the 47% of the people in America. What is cowardly about Mitt Romney, he is not stand by, or stand up to his words.

    Mitt Romney throughout this Presidential campaign has said things "he" believes in. When confronted on his comments, Mitt Romney says---that's not what I meant. Mitt Romney tries to negotiate a different meaning, but it is clear the first comments are Mitt Romney belief and intent.

    Mitt Romney will lie, distort, and say misleading statements. It's adding up, this will catch up and overcome this man. This will not just end his candidacy for president, it will cause the Romney family name to suffer.

    This will go down in history as the most dishonest Republican Presidential candidate in the history of Presidential campaigns.

  13. Dear Future,

    Please describe or define "tickle-down government."

    I believe the only politician in recent history who favored that kind of government was a republican named Mark Foley.

  14. Ref: My post above at 5:27 AM today.

    President Obama took a day off from his presidential campaigning to meet with Secretary Clinton. Why? All indications are that it's the State Department officials' testimony before the Issa Committee today on the terrorist attack on the US Consulate in Beghazi, Libya. 4 Murders. US AMB Chris Stevens and 3 of his security detail. And possible White House cover up by blaming the anti-Muslim youtube video rather than links to Al Qaeda.

    CarmineD

  15. QE-3 is pure trickle down, whether you want to call it economics or government. Bernake is pumping $40B/mo into commercial bond purchases in an effort to stimulate job growth.

    Even Keynes would raise an eyebrow at that!

  16. White House press Secretary Jay Carney holds WH press conference. First in 2 weeks. Why? Damage control from fall out of State Dept officials testifying today on the events in the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya on Sept 9, 2012 which led to the murders of the US AMB Chris Stevens and 3 of his security detail.

    CarmineD

  17. Longtimevegan,

    It's really hard for me to find anyone, R or D, that will treat these two men the same way. OK, when Obama spoke to a minority audience after Katrina, he spoke in dialect and said that the people in New Orleans were not treated as well by the government as those in Florida or New York after those disasters. He also said that the Stafford law was enforced in New Orleans and waived in New York and Florida. He was wrong about that and it turned out that New Orleans got more aid than New York and Florida combined. A little pandering... perhaps?

    Do you really believe that if President Obama was asked straight out today if the Federal government stiffed the people of New Orleans because they were black, he'd say: Yes, I do.

    Come on now, let's either use the same yardstick for both men or just stipulate that politicians often don't tell the truth and cater their remarks to their audience.

    Let's stop the parsing.... Agreed?

    Michael

  18. Kepi,

    I totally disagree with your opinion that a wealthy man cannot relate to and properly be the President of 'all' Americans. If that were true, many of our Presidents should never have been elected.

    I will say again to you what I said to Longtimevegan, another letter writer who said essentially what you said:

    It's really hard for me to find anyone, R or D, that will treat these two men the same way. OK, when Obama spoke to a minority audience after Katrina, he spoke in dialect and said that the people in New Orleans were not treated as well by the government as those in Florida or New York after those disasters. He also said that the Stafford law was enforced in New Orleans and waived in New York and Florida. He was wrong about that and it turned out that New Orleans got more aid than New York and Florida combined. A little pandering... perhaps?

    Do you really believe that if President Obama was asked straight out today if the Federal government stiffed the people of New Orleans because they were black, he'd say: Yes, I do.

    Come on now, let's either use the same yardstick for both men or just stipulate that politicians often don't tell the truth and cater their remarks to their audience.

    Let's stop the parsing.... Agreed?

    Michael

  19. Why would Ryan and Biden talk about Romney and Obama during a debate? They should talk about their positions on the various issues. The letter makes no sense at all.

  20. So that would be the sound of crickets when it comes to anyone reading the nonsense posted by conservatives here.

  21. Bykepi,Very good post full of backup support,just what the doctor ordered.stay strong.

  22. Speaking of nonsense posted here:

    "White House press Secretary Jay Carney holds WH press conference. First in 2 weeks. Why?"

    I have to chuckle at this one. Jay Carney has been holding press conferences nearly every day for the past two weeks.

    In fact, would you like to read the transcript from the press conference he held while here in Vegas? Complete with questions about Benghazi?

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-offi...

    How about another press conference from Las Vegas? Also with questions about Benghazi?

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-offi...

    Fact check gives Carmine a "Pants on Fire" for this one.

  23. Romney has told so many lies that I cannot keep up with them, regardless of what Queen Ann says.

    I actually listen to what he says, then have to scratch my head wondering how he keeps getting away with his reversals and lies.

    He lies so fast and moves on so fast that it is hard to follow now. He has sped up to prevent being called on his lies.

    So, I came to the decision that Romney cannot be trusted, and therefore hasn't got the character to be President.

    I had to go to his website to read his plans, such as they are, which gives no reasonable details for the public to use to make a decision.

    He can't give details in speeches, or debates.

    I have lost all respect for this individual who has shown such immorality in his effort to get power.

    And if he does get power, what will he do? Nothing he has said can give us an idea because he has flip flopped so much a Mexican jumping bean couldn't keep up.

    Even his campaign has to issue a reversal of what he says. How in heavens can anyone think this man is worthy to be President?

    He lies about his record as a vulture capitalist, he exaggerates his Olympic success, he lies about his record as Governor, and he lies about his plans for the people if elected President. He lies about his lies.

    Now, he has his wife lying for him.

    Romney want power too badly, so he will say whatever people want to hear, or lie to them. This is the most dangerous kind of person to put in the Presidency.

    This is beyond an issue of ideology. I believe, or hope, the majority of the American voters can see the truth about Romney and reelect Obama, who doesn't even approach Romney/s immoral character by an inch.

  24. Peacelily,

    I have gone to both candidates sites and read their plans and one question always comes up: Once your plan to cut taxes (Romney) to stimulate the economy or use government stimulus plus a tax hike on the wealthy to stimulate the economy, still leaves us with a large deficit each year and for years to come, what will you do next?

    Go to the websites and look for the answer to that question. I can assure you that you will not find it.

    And THAT is one VERY BIG PROBLEM, no matter who wins this election.

    Michael

  25. Kepi,

    I am not trying to accomplish anything. I am pointing out that politicians do whatever they can to connect with their audience. After all, the objective is to get votes and you get votes by making the audience feel that you are one of them and one with their hopes, dreams and desires.

    Romney, Ryan, Obama and Biden all do this, just like other politicians do. We either need to accept it because it IS, or if we are going to criticize it, we need to use the same measuring stick to measure it.

    My comment was in response to a comment about what Romney said in his talk to donors. He spoke the language he thought was appropriate to his audience, as did Obama in his speech to the group regarding Katrina. Do I know if either man actually believed what he said? I can't read minds so no, I don't know. So I tend to label both the comments and the people who choose to criticize one man but not the other this way...... bfd...

    I listen to politicians and what they say but I know that a large % of it is likely not true. That's just the way it is. It makes it difficult to really know how to vote, but again, it is what it is.

    Michael

  26. ByPeacelily,
    I have been reading your posts more closely these past few days and you are one smart person.You seem to get right to the heart of what's on your mind,and actually say so.Nothing like expressing how you see and view things to fellow commenters. Which we sometimes see a few commenters who have bent the truth a bit. Keep up with your wise thought out comments,I sure enjoy reading them.

  27. Kepi,

    I'm not angry, just frustrated. I'm sorry we are even talking about this stuff. Other issues are much more important than whether a candidate told the truth when speaking to a particular audience. There is no way for us to know what these guys really believe.

    Michael

  28. @Micheal Casler, Thanks for the response.

    I agree somewhat with post. However, I do not agree with your comparisons. Then, Senate Obama did use charged words (I agree with you) to an audience of Black Ministers (not closed to the public, or a private event). Your right, both Romney and Obama were speaking to core supporters. Mitt Romney made direct comments to 47% of the people in America. Basically Mitt Romney said he's not concerned with them because they are riding free on government programs---he's not worried about them, the 47% of Americans. It is noted Senate Obama did change his tone of voice during the speech. That was pure pandering.

    Your half correct about the Stafford Act in regards to New Orleans. The Bush Administration waived the Act for only 60 days. In comparison to damages, the attacks on the Twin Towers damaged or destroyed 30 million square feet of office space in Manhattan, that is, slightly more than a square mile. In New Orleans about 145 square miles of previously dry land was under water after Hurricane Katrina.

    Note: 110 billion dollars of the recorded relief money to Katrina included money that had been sent to five states for recovery from three hurricanes: Katrina, Rita and Wilma. Sixteen billion dollars had been paid out by the National Flood Insurance Program. We'd paid premiums for that. So why was it counted as a gift?

    And no, President Obama would not say Yes to the government stiff question.

    We can agree Mitt Romney and President Obama will pander and say things outside of image they are trying to project. I disagree that the same yard stick can be used to measure both persons.

    You see, Mitt Romney has a different belief, a different approach on how the middle class in America should progress. All during this President campaign, Mitt Romney supported issues that will not help middle class America. The 47% speech confirms Mitt Romney's fundamentals, his core beliefs. If you will recall in the 47% speech Mitt Romney said there is nothing he can to improve the Israeli conflict. Mitt Romney said, he only can hope it gets better. This is the Republican Presidential candidate speaking openly to donors of the one-percent. His group.

    As a rule, you speak honestly when your around your own kind.

  29. "Carmine: Quit trying to politicize the deaths of the ambassador and his security team in Libya with your White House press conference reporting."

    Not me. I'm not testifying about the murders in Benghazi on Sept 11, before the House Government and Oversight committee. State Department employees are.

    CarmineD

  30. "Fact check gives Carmine a "Pants on Fire" for this one."

    No, you don't understand the meaning of a press conference.

    "According to the White House website, there's been no full-fledged "face the nation"-style televised press briefing in more than two weeks."

    CarmineD

  31. I should have emphasized that the State Department employees "voluntarily" went to Congress and asked if they could testify about the events in Banghazi, Libyan and the murders of the US AMB Stevens and 3 of his security detail. Read Lt Col. Wood, RSO, and DAS. Why? They want to distance themselves from the "political" spin and stories that the White House [President, State Dept Secretary, press secreatry, and AMB to Union Rice ] promulgated for 3 weeks in the wake of the tragic events.

    Note the FBI have not been sent to Benghazi yet as promised by the Admin to investigate. And in all likelihood no official report will come out until after the election.

    CarmineD

  32. Kepi,

    I make an effort to be fair.

    In full context, a fair evaluation of President Obama's comments would conclude that his intention was to advocate that the free market needs government and what it provides in order for it to flourish. Taken out of context and not allowing that the President was generalizing and overstating when he said 'you did not build that', allowed R's to characterize the President as something I don't think he is, which is a hater of free enterprise and capitalism.

    In full context, a fair evaluation of Mitt Romney's comments would conclude that his intention was to tell his audience that he cannot try to bring about 47 % of the electorate to his side no matter what he does. They will support the President. He then generalized and over stated that all of those 47 % pay no taxes and want government support.... like President Obama did with the 'you didn't build that' comment.

    I feel sorry for Americans that believe that President Obama hates Capitalism or that Mitt Romney would throw 47 % of Americans overboard if elected. I also feel sorry for my country that so many buy this baloney that both sides spew.

    Policies, policies, policies .... that's what we need to pay attention to.

    Michael

  33. Former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, "Romney is a well oiled weather vane."

    Rick Santorum, "The worst Republican in the country to put up against Barack Obama."

    It appears Romney enjoys debating himself due to his many flip flops. Mr. Powers is correct, Romney will say anything to get a vote, but what he believes (behind closed doors) is in opposition to what he says. Adding to his attitude towards the 47% Romney also exposed his position on Israel and Palestinians which was to kick the can down the road.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWgYEkArx...

  34. "Former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, "Romney is a well oiled weather vane."

    Rick Santorum, "The worst Republican in the country to put up against Barack Obama."

    Sour grapes. They lost the GOP nomination to the Governor.

    CarmineD

  35. The State department employees, according to their testimony, watched the attck on the Consulate IN REAL TIME. They concluded iot was a terrorist attack. Took over 3 weeks for the White House [read President and his highest level advisors] to admit the same. THREE WEEKS.

    I said here on September 12 to Jeffery, who disagreed with me and hasn't been posting here since, that it was an act of terror and Al Qaeda was guilty. It's not rocket science. Shame on the President and his advisors for spinning the truth [then, since, and now, to their own benefit.

    CarmineD

  36. Boftx, the problem with QE-3 is that the big companies and plenty of cash, and for the most part have too much capacity relative to Demand for their goods and services. In short, most big companies don't need the money. Small companies can't get loans from banks because banks can't make enough off the loans to cover the costs of writing them and supervising them, and, for the most part small companies don't have enough Demand for their goods and services to expand.

    QE-3 is pushing cooked noodles. All you can say for the Fed is at least they are trying to do something. Fiscal policy is Congress' business -- but our Congress hasn't done any worthwhile business in at least 2 years. At least the Fed is trying.

  37. For those who call it politicizing the murders of 4 Americans I say to ALL OF YOU consider this:

    FIVE days after the murders, Susan Rice, the US AMB to the UN and the person being groomed to be Secretary of State after Hillary Clinton, went on the Sunday talk shows, no less than 5, and said the same thing. The sacking of the Benghazi Consulate was a result of the internet video. She was asked WHY are you claiming this is the case. Her answer, NOT MINE, the best US intelligence says so. Okay, we go to US Intelligence: Clapper, Brennan and Petraeus. We ask them: Did US intel say it was the video? Their response: Absolutely not. All intel points to terror and Al Qeada. Now you tell us: Who's lying and why?

    If Ryan and Romney are smart, and they are, they will drive this point home during the debates. Somebody lied to the American people. Who and why?

    Carmine D

  38. And these are the same people claiming Romney and Ryan are lying?

    Read Sol Alinsky. And you'll understand their reasons. I have and I do.

    CarmineD

  39. Sol Alinsky was admired by both progressives and conservatives for the work he accomplished. It wasn't until recently via Newt Gingrich did his name conjure visions of socialism and communism. Yes the sky is falling, if you happen to be paranoid and in fear of everything.

  40. Mr. Teamster:

    VP debates are not game changers and election deciders. That's why there is ONLY one.

    CarmineD

  41. Mr. Branco:

    Biden brought assumptions into debate not based on facts in evidence: Libya and murders of 4 Americans. Biden got away with it Obama won't. The VP debate set the stage for Oct 16 and Oct 22 presidential debates.

    CarmineD

  42. Alinsky's book: "Rules for Radicals" is dedicated to Lucifer.

    "Alinsky died of a sudden, massive heart attack in 1972, on a street corner in Carmel, California, at the age of 63. Two months previously, he discussed life after death in his interview with Playboy:

    ALINSKY: ... if there is an afterlife, and I have anything to say about it, I will unreservedly choose to go to hell.

    PLAYBOY: Why?

    ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I've been with the have-nots. Over here, if you're a have-not, you're short of dough. If you're a have-not in hell, you're short of virtue. Once I get into hell, I'll start organizing the have-nots over there.

    PLAYBOY: Why them?

    ALINSKY: They're my kind of people."

    Alinsky lost his moral compass all on his own. People who "admire" him and his philosophy are, by his own words, lost souls.

    CarmineD

  43. Carmine,

    "Alinsky lost his moral compass all on his own."

    So did Ayn Rand!

  44. No comparison. One [Rand] just wrote about it. Alinsky did it.

    CarmineD

  45. Carmine, you are underestimating Ayn Rand's influence which emanated from her beliefs, public appearances, interviews and writings.

    Just look at the movement that still today is very active in spreading her objectivism theory and also influencing politics.

    http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?p...

  46. No, you're underestimating Alinsky's words to Playboy and HIS dedication of his most famous book to Lucifer. From beginning to end Alinsky's philosophy of life was based on evil.

    CarmineD

  47. There is no comparison between Saul Alinsky, a Jewish agnostic, and Ayn Rand, an atheist. He contributed so much to so many in his lifetime.

    Ayn Rand contributed a philosophy of self-interest, selfishness, lack of compassion, with questionable morals.

    I think his reference to wanting to go to hell was because he could organize those in hell and in so doing free them. That would not be necessary in heaven. The words of a lifelong organizer.

    His dedication to Lucifer makes sense in that context. Perhaps a warning to such an entity on earth and in hell.

    Even William F Buckley said he was "pretty close to being an organizational genius".

    One of the groups organizing the Tea Party gave its top leaders a copy of 'Rules for Radicals', and it is evident they used it.

    I think you have been listening too much to Rush Limbaugh.

    But of course, I don't believe in Lucifer or evil.

    I believe there are bad people, selfish people, corrupted people, greedy people, and Saul Alinsky organized those who were subjected to the injustice of the others. He organized them to fight the injustice and gain their rights.

    Ayn Rand taught people to be those that Saul Alinsky organized against.

    If you must use the term "evil", it would apply to Ayn Rand more than Saul Alinsky, however, I don't believe either were "evil".