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Tuesday, Oct. 9, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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The American people don’t want hot air. We are all searching for the facts. There is a reasonable question I’d like to have answered with facts in one of the presidential debates.
The eight-year Clinton administration handed the George W. Bush administration a multitrillion-dollar surplus and a booming economy to work with. The eight-year Bush administration handed the Obama administration a multitrillion-dollar deficit, two unpaid wars, a looming depression, a financial system near collapse, a crumbling national housing industry, a skyrocketing unemployment percentage, a sick auto industry about to go under and a commitment to do nothing for the American people to help fix it all.
All of this would make certain the Obama administration, along with the American people who voted for it, would fail, and not in eight years but in four.
In the face of that mindless resistance, the Obama administration succeeded in rescuing the auto industry, ending a war, bringing troops home, eliminating our most dangerous enemy, turning advancing unemployment into decreasing unemployment, passing a health care bill, and presenting a bill that would dramatically increase jobs by stimulating repairs to our sad, crumbling national infrastructure, only to have it blocked by the party of the former administration.
My three-part question is: Why should a citizen vote to toss our country back into the sinkhole from which it is slowly emerging by hiring back the administration that caused it? How does that make any sense? Where is the logic in that?
The answer is that the citizen's should not vote for Romney, it makes no sense, and there is no logic in repeating the mistakes of the Republican past.
Dombek states "Why should a citizen vote to toss our country back into the sinkhole from which it is slowly emerging by hiring back the administration that caused it?"
Dombek fails to link cause and effect to the Bush administration. Recessions are not caused by government or an administration. Clinton was aided by the dot.com boom and a republican house & senate that kept the spending under control and the budget balanced. By early 2000, the dot.com bubble busted, business reined in spending /investment and the 911 attack kept us in recession. The savings rate dipped from the 8% range in the early 90's to 2% to 3% in the early 2000's at the end of Clinton's term. Bush cut taxes in the early 2000's in order to boost consumer spending which helped lessened the depth of the recession. I'm sure many liberals would prefer us to to just sit on our hands after 911 and accept 3,000 dead Americans without seeking out the perpetrators due to the budget yet it's the cost of entitlements that is actually busting our budget. The housing bubble couldn't be avoided at the end of Bush's second term and I don't recall democrats proposing anything in the house & senate that they controlled at the time that would have averted the housing bubble.
The problem that exists now is we have a President who's background is community organizing and doesn't understand how to enact policies that gets our economy moving again. Obama's trickle-down government spending approach hasn't worked causing the stagnate economy. We need a president who understands economics, business and job creation and Obama, after 4 years, has proven he lacks the ability to enact pro-growth business policies necessary to grow our economy leaving 23 million Americans jobless. What a shame. The 2009 $867 billion dollar Obama stimulus was suppose to lower the unemployment rate to under 6% by now but that didn't happen.
Peacelilly states "The answer is that the citizen's should not vote for Romney, it makes no sense, and there is no logic in repeating the mistakes of the Republican past".
Beware, this poster has stated in the past that she wants to split the United States into 3 countries. Does that make any sense to divide our country into 3 separate countries?
Do your own fact finding and make your own voting decisions.
John's rant failed to cite a single policy that resulted in the housing lead recession.
Would it be the elimination of the Glass-Stegall SIGNED by Bill Clinton
Exactly what policy or law is John afraid of?
John's rant failed to cite a single policy that resulted in the housing lead recession.
Would it be the reduction in tax rates for every American the poor the middle class the small business owners
---
Bush inherited the Clinton Dot.com recession and the country was economically shocked by 9-11
Clinton January 2001 Employment number 137,778,000 million
Bush December 2007 employment number 146,273,000
---- up a net 8.5 million jobs since Clinton due to the 2003 Bush tax rate cut.
----FY-2007 Revenue - $2,568.2 trillion up $576.8 billion from Clinton
--
Exactly what policy or law is John afraid of?
John's rant failed to cite a single policy that resulted in the housing lead recession.
-------------
January of 2007 Democrats took over Congress; the House with Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank; the Senate with Obama, Biden, Harry Reid, and Chris Dodd.
This was followed by the elevation of Obama to president in 2009.
This is a singular turning point in American history with the social and economic morass that followed. Obama, Reid and Pelosi have been on a path to implement the Liberals Entitlement Manifesto. One where a powerful Central Government control all activities and directs people's lives.
What policy is John MAD about
If we use John Dombek's logic further then George HW Bush caused the dot.com economic expansion and balanced budgets in the 1990's. Weak logic but it's a free country and anybody can come up with their own conclusions but educated voters will understand Dombek is just attempting to divert attention away from Obama's own record which the debate performance revealed is tough to defend.
If one approves of President Obama's philosophy and policies they should vote to re-elect him. I hope however that Mr. Dombek's revisionist history is not part of anyone's decision making.
The 'surplus' created under Clinton and an R Congress was quickly being consumed as the dot com bubble turned into the dot com bust in 2000. As Bush came in, a recession that had started under Clinton arrived too. Before we knew it, 9/11 happened, making an existing recession much worse.
Tax cuts were passed to try to stimulate the economy during a tough recession and economic activity did pick up.
The seeds of the bank problems and the housing mess are found in the Clinton Administration with the repeal of part of Glass Stegall and the 'everybody should own a house program' championed by both idiot R's and D's.
Our government, all of it, is responsible for many of our problems and trying to place all the blame on one President or one party is truly revisionist history and should have no place in anyone's decision making process.
If you approve of Mitt Romney's philosophy and proposals, you should vote to elect him President.
Michael
Letter writer must be living in a bubble for the last 4 years. Doesn't realize that candidate Obama was elected president in 2008 and had a democratic controlled Congress, with Nancy Pelosi in the House and dirty harry in the Senate through Nov 2010. And dirty harry still there. But not for long. Not as majority leader.
CarmineD
Wall Street greed caused the financial crises and led to the Great Recession. In 2008 even President Bush compared Wall Street to "a drunk with a hangover". Now, Wall Street and the Republicans come along with what I call the Flip Wilson defense - "The devil made me do it". And, of course, the devil is the Federal Government.
Truth is there was big money to be made by writing home mortgages, bundling them into mortgage-backed securities and passing any risk to the new owners of those securities. Since the risk was being passed on, there was no incentive to avoid risk and if you were a carbon-based lifeform you could get a mortgage. When it all went bad the financial system almost collapsed and Main Street lost eight million jobs.
From: John Dombek, Santa Clara, Utah,
"My three-part question is: Why should a citizen vote to toss our country back into the sinkhole from which it is slowly emerging by hiring back the administration that caused it? How does that make any sense? Where is the logic in that?"
The writer sums up his piece by asking three logical questions. Questions intended for reasonable people. Before one can answer the questions, one must understand the questions.
When you read the words from John Dombek of Santa Clara, Utah one gets the feeling John has a sense the country is in some sort of voter apocalyptic malaise. You know, like John is reaching out from a lone State, from his city, from his neighborhood, asking---is anyone out there? Is anyone of reasonable thought and sound mind out there, please respond!
You can almost see John Dombek of Santa Clara, Utah standing out there, calling up good people and true!
For John Dombek, from Santa Clara, Utah to ask the questions at the end of his letter tells us there are reasonable people out there. Especially reasonable people from a State some would not expect to hear supporting comments during this upside down Presidential election. And you know what? This is exactly what many of us expected!
Independent voters who have done their homework, who know the facts on the issues are coming out and speaking out. This is the group that will decide this election. This is what was expected!
Thank you John Dombek, from Santa Clara, Utah. We hear your message, we see your beacon.
By peacelily
"The answer is that the citizen's should not vote for Romney, it makes no sense, and there is no logic in repeating the mistakes of the Republican past."
--
Peace - Cite the republican policy that you have decided was the problem - the mistake.
What is - it name
Then tell us how it is Romney fault - where is the direct linkage
Cite the specific of what is bugging you so badly
peacelily did you state that you wanted to divide the US into three countries?
peacelily said:
"The answer is that the citizen's should not vote for Romney, it makes no sense, and there is no logic in repeating the mistakes of the Republican past".
DING! DING!! DING! DING!
Give peacelily a 10 out of a 10. He/she hit a home run!
Yes, Romney is nothing more than another George "clueless: Bush.....maybe slighty smarter & much richer but the same out of touch, clueless guy who would be a disaster for this country...
Four years ago I though McBush.....Oop's I mean McCain...was an unbelievable flip-flopper but that was before Romney came along....
"mittens" is the "king of flip-floppers." A man who has never seen a fact that he can't change or a previous statement that he can't deny!
We have heard this tired song and dance for 4yrs now.
I know of at least 3 commenters who post here. Who have been loyal Republicans myself included that have switched over to voting Democrat for the re-election of Pres.Obama.
After the disastrous performance of former Pres. G.W.Bush in his 8 years as Pres.Who would want to go back to more of the same with Gov.Romney as Pres? The Republicans have had their time to continue on with prosperty created by the Clinton administration,but instead they chose war with lies instesd.
Former Pres.Johnson chose war with lies with his Vietnam, Gulf of tonkin caper (1964).It didn't work back then, it hasn't worked for Former Pres.G.W.Bush in Iraq (2003). It most certainly won't work for Gov.Romney in (2013). If he were to be elected. Gov.Romney currently has eyes for war with Iran. Americans are tired of wars made from lies.
Chuck asks "peacelily did you state that you wanted to divide the US into three countries?"
Yes she did. See the link below and her post on Oct. 1st at 7L54pm. This is her quote:
"In fact, I have written repeatedly that I think the U.S. should be broken into 3-4 sovereign countries".
She was responding to my Oct 1st 4:19am post when I referenced her quote
"One day there is a good possibility we will be the North American Union, then the American Union with a new currency and government structure for the whole continent. It will be an opportunity to expand our openness, to open our arms to so many wonderful and new cultures and experiences. We may need to be even more supportive of one another, to build closer relationships." So in you're comment, you're extolling the virtues of a new government and a union for the North American continent."
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/oct...
No - 40 years of democrat controlled congress got us into this mess. The only bright spot was Newt's 2 years of republican control of congress and Clinton happily takes all the credit for that.
Sam says "I know of at least 3 commenters who post here. Who have been loyal Republicans myself included that have switched over to voting Democrat."
Sam I know loyal conservatives and Republicans - and your not one
Sam I know Democrats and Liberals - and you are one
I have never hear you say anything positive about conservative value so do not fake the faux I am a Republican.
We continue to ask what was the economic law that was passed under Bush that you find so abhorrent
And do not say the Bush tax cuts because Reid Pelosi and obama extended them
Clinton handed us a recession, a dot-com bubble burst, Enron, and trained AlQaeda pilots as well as loosening regulation on big banks. Thanks a lot.
RefNV: You state, in part "Recessions are not caused by government or an administration." Your inconsistency is showing - by that same argument, governments and administrations cannot end recessions. In an odd way, I actually agree with BOTH arguments. A primary cause of recessions is the overheating of an economy by the greed and selfishness of individuals. The greater the wealth of an individual, the more he/she is able to leverage that greed and selfishness. Romney is not a potential cure for our problems, rather he is a leading CAUSE of them.
To John Dombek:
The money that Clinton "bestowed" on Bush 43 was not multi trillion. It was more like 400 billion.
A corrupt financial system and rampant real estate speculation got us into this.
The 1987 stock market crash and dot com bubble were warm ups for the current mess.
Dombek,
Please rectify your two disparate statements:
"We are all searching for the facts"
"The eight-year Clinton administration handed the George W. Bush administration a multitrillion-dollar surplus and a booming economy to work with."
Why would you state we are all fact lovers and then state a huge lie?
Go away.
Purgatory
RenoRobert,
Government creates an environment for businesses to startup or expand and Romney understands this fact.
There was an interesting article last week from USAToday titled "Fewer CEOs planning to expand, hire in next six months".
Here is an excerpt:
"A survey of U.S. chief executives shows a sharp drop in the number of large companies that plan to add jobs or hire more workers.
The Business Roundtable said Wednesday that only 29% of its member CEOs plan to increase hiring over the next six months. That's down from 36% in June, when the group last released its quarterly survey. It's also much lower than the 52% of CEOs in early 2011 who said they planned to boost hiring, the highest percentage since the survey began in 2002.
James McNerney Jr., chairman of the Roundtable and CEO of Boeing, said CEOs are worried about the impact of budget cuts and tax increases that are set to take effect at the start of next year. The pending U.S. budget changes are known as the "fiscal cliff." Chief executives are also concerned about economic slowdowns in Europe and China."
Business investing requires a stable government tax & spend policy in order to expand our economy and create jobs. Obama has had 4 years to understand this fact but has failed to provide an environment for businesses to make long-term business investments decisions.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/bus...
It is beyond me why Democrats keep trotting out Clinton as the poster child for re-electing Obama.
Clinton reduced government spending and welfare and got the benefit of the end of the cold war in reduced military spending. Clinton was a centrist.
Clinton worked with a Republican Congress.
Clinton passed the elimination of Glass-Segall
--
Obama is NO Clinton
Obama should stop channelling Clinton
Guess Obama 3am phone call came and went:
A U.S. security officer formerly stationed in Libya has told lawmakers he sent two cables to the State Department requesting more security agents for the American mission in Benghazi but received no response.
The officer, Eric Nordstrom, also said that a State Department official, Charlene Lamb, wanted to keep the number of U.S. security personnel in Benghazi "artificially low," according to a memo summarizing his comments that was obtained by Reuters
http://news.yahoo.com/us-officer-got-no-...
Ya, John. We can keep spending trillions we don't have and expect no repercussions. Who cares how we got here? Keep pointing fingers as we degenerate into anarchy, austerity, starvation, subject to invasion and attack.
RefNV: I saw that USA Today piece on CEOs cutting back on their expansion plans. I'm still able, barely, to keep my nose above water. But any CEO counting on my helping him to expand is whistling in the wind. As is true of others in my position, I'm not buying ANYTHING not absolutely necessary for survival. I'm paying off bills. I buy nothing I can't pay cash for. I'm building a nest egg. All the things that CEOs really hate to see. Will I go back to my old habits? Maybe - but not in the foreseeable future. I can't imagine a rational CEO planning an expansion when consumers are jobless, broke, and keeping their wallets at home.
Yes, Clinton managed a budget surplus with the aid of a Republican Congress and Senate. His successor, however, couldn't do that with a Republican House, Senate AND administration. Don't talk "two wars." Yes, Bush DID manage to get us into two wars, but he kept the expenses of both off the budget and STILL ran huge deficits, while lowering the inflation adjusted average family income.
A businessman as President? Hoover was one - look what HE did to the economy. A recent study (reported in NYT, Sept 22) shows that CEOs rarely move between industries and when they do, they usually FLOP! And yet we should choose a reasonably successful venture capital industry CEO to be CEO of the country?
You still have not addressed my position that if, as you claim, governments and administrations don't cause recessions, they will be unable to end one. Nor have you addressed my underlying allegation that this recession was caused by greed and the corollary that a lessening of greed just might reverse it. Note that what little a President can do alone to affect the economy (plus or minus) normally takes 2 to 4 years to start showing any effect.
peacelily Oct. 9, 2012 2:33 a.m.
The answer is that the citizen's should not vote for Romney, it makes no sense, and there is no logic in repeating the mistakes of the Republican past.
````````````````````
I totally agree! Have a nice evening :)
@Future,
What a HOOT! YOU are asking Peacelily to cite a source. You must be joking. Come on admit it. I have asked you for months to cite a source. You never cited a source; until today MittRomney.com; nothing wrong with that I do it all the time and get criticized for it. To stop anyone in their tracks, the people who actually cite a source typically, not always, cite sources that are in line with their political positions.
Peacelily is one of the best commentators here; she is always respectful of others; and presents factual professional points of view.
So back off.
The letter is very off fact and not really correct in so many ways as pointed out by others already. This proves the glass can be half full or half empty.
No mention of the multi multi trillion Obama deficit spending, no wars or attacks on us like Bush had to deal with, where is all that money going ? At least you can blame Bush for spending the money on a war or to fight off attackers you know where the money went! And the purpose.
@Future
Sam was not talking about TEAbaggers such as yourself; he was referring to the Republican Party of yesterday that has been replaced by the Tea Party.
Do you understand the difference between a Republican and a TEAbagger? Huge difference, which is why Republicans are leaving the party.
Kept what a hoot - I NEVER ASK FOR A SOURCE.
Read the post again. I want to know what policy was a problem for you liberals
---
Peace - Cite the republican policy that you have decided was the problem - the mistake.
What is - it name
Then tell us how it is Romney fault - where is the direct linkage
Cite the specific of what is bugging you so badly
Renorobert,
Below is a website that's more suitable for your discussion on greed. This movement has died off a bit but perhaps you can rekindle the fire with your beliefs.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/occupylas...
Futu @ 7:45 p.m.
I stand corrected on the following sentence only, "YOU are asking Peacelily to cite a source." You are absolutely correct I misread your comments. It was my mistake.
At least, I will admit a mistake, when was the last time you admitted a mistake?
To me, I find it extremely interesting why the sudden interest in policies that are a problem with what you call liberals. You never cared before, why do you care now? Why are you asking the question?
Bedtime ~ Gotta go.
John......
YES, the GOP got us into this mess.
It started when Al Gore won the election and the
republican run Supreme Court made the loser,
George Bush, the president.
That's when it started.
FROM A STOLEN ELECTION!
AND the wrong man DESTROYED our middle class and
economy.
And the wrong man LIED US INTO IRAQ!
AFTER the incompetent GOP FAILED IN PROTECTING
OUR COUNTRY WHEN 9/11 HAPPENED!
YES, the GOP are total and complete failures.
YES, it makes no sense or logic to put the same
republican idiots back in power.
SO,
WE'RE KEEPING OUR GREAT PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!
"I know of at least 3 commenters who post here. "
Mr. Pizzo: I have the same number of immediate family members, who voted for Obama in 2008, who won't in 2012. And some made the decision recently.
CarmineD
BTW, all women.
CarmineD
"WE'RE KEEPING OUR GREAT PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!"
Thanks, needed a good laugh this morning. What's with his Big Bird fixation anyway?
"I know of at least 3 commenters who post here. "
Mr. Pizzo: I have the same number of immediate family members, who voted for Obama in 2008, who won't in 2012. And some made the decision recently.
CarmineD
Do you support War? Or better yet, will you fight in the Mitt Romney war?
"Do you support War? Or better yet, will you fight in the Mitt Romney war?"
I have quoted here the following statement:
No commander in chief should ever send American soldiers to fight in foreign wars unless and until he [she] has walked the battle field of the American dead and wounded.
What do you think?
CarmineD
Comment removed by moderator. Inappropriate
The letter writer is correct. The GOP is responsibile for our current mess...
They continue to force us down the same road with their refusal to work with the Democrats...
Despite everything that the GOP can do to keep this country in the crapper, things are slowly getting better...
Electing Mitt Romney in November would be a return to the failed polices of George W Bush.
WAKE-UP AMERICA!
Vote for President Obama in November. Allow him to finish the job that he started!
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Nothing new coming from the tiny mind of TEA...
Only a complete idiot would deny the damage that George W Bush and his administration did to this country...
As a majority of the people in this country knowledge, George W had the following inept record:
George NEVER produced a balanced budget in 8 years..
George gave tax cuts to the rich & said that those tax cuts would create jobs which didn't happen....
George took us to two wars that we could not afford & lied to us every step of the way....
George NEVER but the cost of his two wars in his budget.....
George borrowed money and spent it like a drunken sailor on leave.....in other words he greatly increased the national debt.
George created less than 4 million jobs during his tenure and stood by and watched as 10-12 million jobs were taken off-shore..
George's inept economic policies led to the greatest recession that this country has had since the Great Depression...
Sorry TEA......spin it anyway you wish but the truth is the truth! A vote for Mitt Romney is a vote to return to the failed policies of George W Bush......
El_Lobo......
Great comments again.
Tea is too young to understand the political truth
and Carmine is too old.
The GOP is a disaster and has never been this
desperate in our lives.
Willard Romney is THE BIGGEST FLIP-FLOPPER OF
ALL TIME.
A snake-oil salesman if there ever was one.
The real romney threw 47% of Americans under the
bus.
The real Romney has said that his preference is
to reverse ROE VRS. WADE.
The real romney has said the Supreme Court should
overturn ROE VRS. WADE.
Today romney said that he would cut and cap
Federal spending.
What spending is he talking about?
He said he will not cut Military funding.
How does he pay for that after he signed the
Grover Norquist pledge of never raising taxes?
He said he will put the Teachers Union behind
get government out of the way.
But he wants government vouchers to pay for
private religious schools.
And he wants to get rid of Big Bird.
He also said that he would support and sign the
Ryan plan if he were president.
Now he threw Ryan under the bus and says he has
his own plan, WHICH IS NO BETTER.
WOW!!!
WE CAN NEVER TRUST ROMNEY!
@ El Lobo...
"Only a complete idiot would deny the damage that George W Bush and his administration did to this country..."
Ain't that the unvarnished truth...
The TEA Party going on in this very room is proof positive of that.
"No commander in chief should ever send American soldiers to fight in foreign wars unless and until he [she] has walked the battle field of the American dead and wounded. What do you think?"
CarmineD
Well said Carmine, well said. Your true words would disqualify many people from being Commander in Chief.
Just to clarify, I take your meaning to say, a person must be on the battle field and experience the fighting. That's how I take your meaning, your good words. I things this would be a true measurement of a Commander in Chief.
Take this a step further, neither Mitt Romney or President Obama would not qualify under these standards.
We do have President Obama who has some experience in walking the battle field in the Middle East. However, Mitt Romney has no exposure to any type of battle field where people are losing their lives.
Yes, he was in France - on a mission! I would have given him points if he went to Africa, or South America, or Asia.
France, really?
The elders have no say in where they go on missions. It's out of their hands. BTW, you may want to read about Gov Romney's mission there, if you haven't. You will be surprised about what happened while he was there.
CarmineD
"Just to clarify, I take your meaning to say, a person must be on the battle field and experience the fighting. That's how I take your meaning, your good words. I things this would be a true measurement of a Commander in Chief."
First, they are not my words although I quote them often. They are attributed to the Platoon Leader, in the battle of Xia Trang in Vietnam in 1964. It was the battle by all accounts that led us into the war. American troops, about 400, were ambushed by 4000 VietCong and more than half killed and wounded. But all made it home, dead/alive.
Second, your interpretation is not what I believe about these words. One need not fight, or even serve, to be a C-I-C. He/she needs to walk the battlefield of the American dead and wouded. See, smell, hear, and feel [aka experience] the results of war.
BTW, FDR was Secretary of the Navy, a bad one at that, and C-I-C during WW2. I have mixed feelings about his performance on that too. Fortunately he had great generals.
CarmineD