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Thursday, Nov. 29, 2012 | 2 a.m.
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Do not raise the national debt ceiling. If Congress has money to give away, it has too much. It is wrong for Congress to vote on spending bills that lawmakers do not read. If they do not know what they are spending money on, do not increase the debt ceiling.
What is amazing is that Obama signed all the laws that have created the current need to increase the debt ceiling. The Stimulus, Obamacare, tax extensions, payroll tax roll backs AND refuse to reform SS and Medicare.
And the original grand bargain deal with the House to raise taxes by $800 billion was nixed by Obama. Now post-election Obama is doubling the revenue demand to $1.6 trillion and still rejecting elimination/capping deductions and loopholes.
The Thelma and Louise Democrats are preparing to let taxes rise on EVERYBODY to prevent any LIMITS ON SPENDING - so watch for Obama to soar off the fiscal cliff.
-- Popeye's friend Wimpy said "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today".
-- Now Krugman's friend Obama says "I'll gladly consider spending limits in 2013 for huge tax rate increases today".
Does anyone believe Obama will honestly address spending limits next year if he get his tax increase now
I recommend that when the debt ceiling is hit, it automatically sets spending cuts in motion before and until the debt ceiling can be raised. The Republicans, and fiscally astute Democrats who share similar concerns, should make this a negotiating point of the grand bargain.
CarmineD
"Does anyone believe Obama will honestly address spending limits next year if he get his tax increase now" @ Future
Good question to ponder. Based on two recent cases in history with Presidents Reagan and George W. D. Bush, the likelihood is not just "NO" but H-E-double hockey sticks NO. In both cases, Dems pledged cuts of $2 to $1 and $3 to $1 spending cuts to tax increases. The taxes went into effect but never the cuts.
CarmineD
Why do we even have a debt ceiling? Money is spent according to Congressional authorization and law. Taxes are collected as set by Congressional action. If the debt increases it is because Congressional action or inaction. So, why is there a separate authorization needed for the debt ceiling?
"Why do we even have a debt ceiling?" @ Jim Weber
Constitution's Article 1 Section 9 states "no money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law." The Constitution gave Congress the power to "borrow money on the credit of the United States." At the time, this was self-limiting. Congress had to vote on each debt issue and expenditure, which made it accountable. The government couldn't borrow much because it couldn't tax income or wealth [didn't happen until 1913 with 16th Amendment], and it couldn't print money because it was held to the gold standard for 180 years embedded in the Constitution.
After Congress was allowed to tax, it had to pass the debt-limit law in 1917 to facilitate the national debt by ending the time consuming practice of voting on each debt issue. Congress made automatic debt limit increases part of the House budget and set up congressional voting rules to do it.
CarmineD
My bet: Obama-Reid win. The Dems will get most of what they want, to include increased debt. If the House opposes, we end up with sequestration and the GOP House will take the blame for everything bad that happens between now and 2014 (when they all run for re-election) -- and their ultimate goal is re-election. Of course, if they surrender, they won't entirely escape blame either, but at least the odds are probably better for most of them if they can point to O-R as the culprits.
For more on why it would be insane to not raise the limit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/e...
The debt ceiling has absolutely nothing to do with what Congress may spend in the future. In a sense Future is correct in citing Wimpy's "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today". But the catch is that the hamburger has already been provided and it is now Tuesday. Lacking cash on hand, the debt ceiling authorizes Treasury to borrow money to pay the bills for what Congress has ALREADY bought. This where "default" enters into the picture: we don't have the money to pay our bills and failure to increase the debt ceiling prohibits Treasury from borrowing the money. The Treasury can do a bit of "creative financing" as a stop-gap measure, but sooner or later it will have to tell our creditors that they will not be paid. Period - that's the "default." Anyone out there who has gone through a home foreclosure or a bankruptcy can tell us what happens next. . .
Question - Is it constitutional for Congress to fail to raise the debt limit?? From the Section 4 of the 14th Amendment: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned." If Congress fails to permit the Treasury to pay our public debts, has it required the Treasury to question the validity of that debt? Or has it simply told Treasury to ignore centuries of law regarding ones' obligations to pay ones' debts?
Comment removed by moderator. Inappropriate
"For more on why it would be insane to not raise the limit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/e... @ Mark Schaffer
Please take note that this article is dated August 2011 and was the trigger for the original "grand bargain" that failed miserably. And here we are again trying to do the same. I believe and may be wrong that the current estimates say we will hit the debt-ceiling sometime in March 2013.
CarmineD
Obama has to come up with more dough for all the vote-buyin he promised.