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Monday, Nov. 19, 2012 | 2:01 a.m.
Another view?
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If we look at all the high-level officials who have had affairs, I think we need some new rules. Affairs open these people up to blackmail. If you want a high-level government job and decide you don’t like your spouse anymore, you either need to find whatever strength you need to ask for and get a divorce, suffer in a bad relationship or resign. If you cannot do one of those, and you have an affair and try to hide it, you become a security risk. David Petraeus said he resigned because he did not uphold his military code. No, he should have resigned because he was too weak to get a divorce, had an affair and, most importantly, placed himself in a position where he could be blackmailed.
If people want to have the freedom to have affairs, they need to stay in the private sector. If people want big, important positions in the government where many people’s lives could be at risk, they must show the restraint, moral courage and good judgment required when temptation comes along.
Since Bill Clinton nobody should be dumped fired or let go for sex.
Obama had not good reason to fire David Petraeus
The Obama government is in free fall due to Jill Kelley who runs a Tampa party house for entertainment of high level government employees.
-- No surprise that while all of this is happening Obama says that he knows nothing.
-------
Future,
President Clinton put himself in a position to be blackmailed, just like Patraeus did, which was incredibly foolish and dangerous. Many people say 'it's just sex', but for high ranking government officials, it is much more than that.
President Clinton lied about what happened under oath and lost his law license and almost his Presidency to try to hide what happened. What else might he have been willing to do if his paramour had been a spy who blackmailed him? The same question has to be asked in the Patraeus case.
In my opinion, many people treat this behavior much too lightly.
Michael
You're right Mr. Casler. Petraeus betrayed us. Soon the talk will be that, in time and after his personal and prefessional penance, he should be allowed to enter public life again. After all, look at all the talent and skills he gave the US and still can. Well, that's for consideration at another time and place. For now, he's out and needs to make amends with his wife and family. I wish him luck.
CarmineD
In reply to Michael Casler; do you really expect men in general, (no pun intended), much less those in positions of power to leave the female "gold-digging" trophies alone???
On the whole, the majority of men just can't do it.
When I was a "young buck" I fell into that trap of falling for women who had what I now call, "The Pretty Damn Dangerous Package".
But I learned, and I got smart. The best kind of power would be that is stimulated by true love. The worst kind of power would be that is created by obsession. The truth is, the man, in most cases controls the amount of power he yields to the woman. If the man is in control, his mental power plays an instrumental part. If the man is out of control, usually he is in for a lot of anxiety and suffering. As Generals Petraeus and Allen have discovered, a clever woman can and will make their lives glum. This is precisely why Generals Petraeus and Allen are no longer held in high admiration and appreciation.
After a nightmarish first marriage, I swore I would NEVER get married again. But then, I met a woman who I have been married to for over thirty years. What made this woman different from others? That's easy to answer. My wife is a different kind of trophy. She could definitely be trusted with all my power. She was treasured with intelligence, integrity, loyalty, and dedication.
So, why possibly would Generals Petraeus and Allen whom are especially academically and militarily brilliant, give up everything, including possibly their marriages, for mistresses like Paula Broadwell and Jill Kelley?
It's simple; they lost control and gave their power to the evil scents of two women who are destined without doubt to destroy man after man.
"A man who is married to a good woman should never treat her as his equal. She is his better half, and no boat floats without that."
>B. Chapline<
This letter is an illustration of idealism gone mad. What makes anyone think that our officials, elected or not, are special superhumans unlike the rest of us? We seem to hold this image that monogamy is some human natural instinct we possess when there is plenty of evidence to suggest the contrary.
Even some commenters admit to experience being, at best, serial monogamists. We may like to tell ourselves that making and keeping one-time agreements with a time span of "forever" is an easy thing to do. It isn't!
Michael Casler; no new rules needed. Men just need to follow the right moral path.
I recorded an old Joe Cocker song some time ago that I still love to sing to my wife because the lyrics say it all;
<iframe class="widget_iframe" src="http://www.reverbnation.com/widget_code/html_widget/artist_1642251?widget_id=50&pwc[design]=customized&pwc[background_color]=%23333333&pwc[included_songs]=0&pwc[song_ids]=8956733&pwc[photo]=1%2C0&pwc[size]=fit" width="100%" height="104" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
In reply to Jim Weber; no one ever said it was easy, but it's the right thing to do. This is what separates men from boys, and right from wrong. Shouldn't the representatives of our country be held to do what is right?
BChap
"Shouldn't the representatives of our country be held to do what is right?"
Answer: Yes, what is right for our country!
I think if Petraeus had apologized to all the families he hurt and took a 2 month or so leave of absence, and then did an assessment of his future viability in the job we could begin to mature as a country.
He, like most Republicans, did not apologize and made a rash, hasty exit from the world stage. It is because of these decisions it seems best he tendered his resignation. I seriously doubt this man would have been blackmailed - his loyalty would be to America.
Next...
We all have skeletons of some sort.
The FBI knew from the get go that there was NO National security issue and the FBI did not need to inform anyone including the President
Of course the FBI and holder and Obama knew for several months. So the notion of Blackmail is nonsense.
Get over the need to fire people for having sex . Gee
That like Obama selling Cocaine when he was a teenager
Get over it
No "new rules" are needed. Better support of what exists will do finely. One would think, that all the supports available these days, family counseling, Church, therapists, all could have averted the wanderings of the moral compass.
Certainly, the handlers of high profile individuals have a clue, and should have adequate influence and persuasion.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
Geez, Mike, another attack on folks in the public sector....we can't have affairs but private sector people can? I'm gonna call my union rep right now and make sure we address that in the next contract!
Michael,
Your asking for a tall order. Morality and personal values cannot be legislated. We can set rules, but it have been proven over time, history tells us men and women will respond to needs of being wanted, the need of not being alone, of having sex, the need of being loved.
The family is the place to start in developing personal armor on values and moral behavior.
Your point brings up huge a challenge. New rules? How do we proceed. Good comments Michael.
Do you really think the CIA didn't know about his affair? Really, really. What world do you live in.
MKC: he doesn't want a divorce. He expects to have it all, marriage and freedom to screw around all he likes--cause he thinks he's special. Too many who succeed lose sight of the fact that they are no better than anyone else. They are NOT entitled to act without considering the consequences. And this is NOT unintended consequences. This is carelessness, failure to think, failure to act in a rational manner.
In reply to Jim Weber; would you care to explain why the FBI has discovered classified documents on Paula Broadwell's personal computer?
I have to assume you'll have an excuse for this too?
There are a good many issues that I agree with Democrats on. However, when those in this political party agitate me most is when at times like this when "full-fledged liberals" find an excuse for everything.
So again Mr. Weber, is classified documents on Paula Broadwell's computer right for our country? I can't wait to hear this reply. This should be a doozy!!!
The only confirmed "classified" information found on her computer,so far, was his itinerary. Wow
To Jim and the others who have responded negatively to what I said....
I don't 'expect' better behavior from people like Petraeus. They are after all, just a human being, like the rest of us. In addition, just like star basketball players or other wealthy and famous people, their stature and position puts them in more places where temptation is near and the 'perch' we place them on makes it more likely that they feel different than the rest of us and 'entitled'.
I 'expect' them to screw up. It's just that when they do, I think we should take their career away. What they do is important and if they were blackmailed, it could end up hurting many people and possibly the nation.
That's my point.
Michael
Mr. Weber; look in the "All Comments" section, you are getting some help for an answer.
This particular commenter says, "It was just the CIA Chief's itinerary."
No, no, there is a lot more than just that. But, even at that level, the itinerary of the CIA Chief in the wrong hands! Wow is right!!!
General Petraeus and the lowest ranking military personnel are subject to the UCMJ-Uniform Code of Military Justice.
"Discretion is the better part of valor."
Petraeus knows that, and he knows he made a bad choice.
Let's move on.
Michael,
What new rules would you suggest? With the possible exception of the President (there is a LONG history of dalliance in the White House) any official who engages in morally questionable activity will be forced to resign or be fired, and sometimes face criminal charges as well.
Boftx,
I would not allow these people to serve in high level positions in government after they show judgment that is poor and could subject them to blackmail. That's all.
Michael
Michael,
Unfortunately humans are frail and weak in certain areas. With power comes corruption and/or greed, it's the nature of the beast. It's been that type of history since man learned to walk upright. The Egyptian, Chinese, Mongol, Macedonian, Persian and Roman dynasties all prove my point, they collapsed from within due to the needs of the "human beast".
Check out this interesting and informative article at CNN.
"Blame affairs on evolution of sex roles"
http://ww.cnn.com/2012/11/17/opinion/coo...
Vernos,
Many people don't seem to get my point. I realize people are frail. My point is that when people in high level government positions choose to give in to the temptations, they should be barred from further government service. Affairs put the public interest at risk from blackmail. That should be seen as a serious offense.
Bottom line for me: If you want a big important position in government that my taxes pay for, I will require in return that you just do not give in to temptation. If you do, you are fired and barred from working in the government going forward.
It seems very, very fair to me.
Michael
BChap
Care to point out exactly where in my comments I became an apologist for Paula Broadwell much less even mentioned her or attempted to justify what was on her computer. The topic under discussion relates to rules for and morals for officials.
I'm fully capable, on my own, of making statements you are likely to despise. You don't have to invent them for me.
In reply to Jim Weber; you made excuses by saying, "We may like to tell ourselves that making and keeping one-time agreements with a time span of "forever" is an easy thing to do. It isn't!"
If a man cannot muster the discipline to be loyal to even his own wife, I am certainly going to believe that most likely he will be self-serving as one of our public trustees. I've had well over thirty years of working the trenches per se in government. I've seen it time and time and time again.
And, you, Mr. Weber make excuses for them. And yes, I despise statements that even suggest excuses for them.
On the one had, I don't really care if he's getting some nooky on the side. Isn't the first, won't be the last. But it does make him potentially vulnerable to blackmail & manipulation vis-a-vis his wife -- which, as CIA Director, is more than enough reason to fire him. If he wants to fool around, let him do so from the comfort of his very generous pension and potentially lucrative publishing deals -- not in a critical position of our government.
Pat Hayes,
I don't expect people in the public sector to be perfect, but I also don't expect them to have affairs and put themselves in a place to be blackmailed. If you want the big chair in government with the big responsibility, then you can't willingly put yourself in a place to be compromised. If you do, you're gone...period.
Michael
wtplv - "I will require in return that you just do not give in to temptation. If you do, you are fired and barred from working in the government going forward."
I agree and understand that principle, but it would never happen. Think about politicians signing a pledge to Grover Norquist before swearing allegiance to the United States, a distinct conflict of interest in my opinion.
Truth be told, retiring General David Petraeus should have been given a polygraph before assuming the position of CIA Director and told he would be given one again in a year to update his security clearance. He didn't and he wasn't. And now he's out. Done in by a sex scandal.
CarmineD