Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Saturday, Nov. 17, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
• Editorials - the Sun's viewpoint.
• Columnists - local and syndicated writers.
• Letters to the editor - readers' views.
Have your own opinion? Write a letter to the editor.
Expect four more years of gridlock, as election results point to the need for a permanent change in Republican Party political strategy. Demographics and welfare economics are the hallmarks of a new and successful Democratic strategy, which gives the party a slight edge in the voting and a defining majority of voting Americans.
It’s too much of an uphill battle for the principles of a smaller government that works more efficiently and listens to the pleas of businesses for pro-business health care, tax and regulatory relief in order to invest and grow. This is the new refrain in which the Republican Party must learn to deal from a lasting minority position, or change its traditional values in order to win elections.
The perception of the electorate tends to be that the president is leading a successful comeback effort to cure the economy, even though progress is painfully slow and 23 million Americans remain unemployed. After all, reasons the majority of the electorate, the economic pit was so deep when Obama took over that not much more could be expected. And in the political arena, perception is reality.
As a result, Republicans again will be required to press for their principles from a minority position while polices are in the hands of a president who has demonstrated a desire for left-wing ideological solutions. Unless Obama reaches out and is willing to compromise, the nation is looking forward to four more years of similar political machinations and gridlock.
The gridlock years can be limited to only two if we put a few members of a third party in Congress. All it would take is for both the Democrats and the Republicans to each lose about 10 - 15 seats to a third party and that party could swing the House votes either way. Assuming the Senate returns to being in close balance it would take even fewer seats than that.
This is a pipe dream, you say? I say it can be done if enough people stop merely complaining and decide to take action. The TEA Party has already shown it was possible in 2010 and again this year.
Now it is time for the moderates and independents to take off the blinders they have so willingly worn for the last 150 years that prevents them from getting behind a new party.
I'm sure you can all guess by now what Party I would like to be chosen for this: the Modern Whigs
Stop complaining, stop saying it can't be done, and simply do it. Run the numbers, there are more than enough independent and moderates from both the Democrats and Republicans to put a few people in the House in the right districts. CD2, CD3 and now CD4 would all be viable targets.
There is no reason to have four more years of gridlock if we begin to act now.
In reply to Bob Jack; there are two Santa's. The Republican Santa comes bearing gift packages to the wealthy in not paying their fair share in taxes. The Democratic Santa comes down bearing gift packages that provide the poor with many social programs that are handouts rather than just necessary hand-ups.
In reality, there isn't much difference between the bum who stands on the corner in rags, and the other bum who strolls by in a three piece suit. In fact, they both have a lot in common.
Meanwhile, middle-class Americans, such as me, who have always worked hard, paid taxes, and never have taken any form government assistance, have to pay for the gift packages of both the wealthy and the poor.
Gee, I wonder why I can't stand either Republicans or Democrats. Hell, the middle-class doesn't even get a fair shake while the country's politicians are engulfed in gridlock!!!
somebody is a poor loser!!!
In reply to "boftx"; you have excellent points. Now, out of all these people who commentate in these discussion forums, I would wager, and I'm not a betting man, that you cannot even get ten pledges to commit to a third party.
You can count me as one pledge.
Only a complete "birdbrain" would believe any type of bum is a winner. However, this describes the majority of the voting public in America today from the two main political party supporters.
Letter writer is correct. The USA has the same people trying to solve the same problems in the same way. Won't happen despite all the back slapping and hand shaking. Has nothing to do with who won the election. And he won it barely, probably by a difference of 330,000 in 3 states. Don't go by the Electoral College, use the popular vote especially when President Obama claims he has a mandate to raise taxes. He's got talk. And that's cheap.
CarmineD
BChap,
If I can get five, I can get 25. And if I can get that, we can get the rest. Like I said above, the only reason people don't do this is because they tell themselves no one else will do it.
Look at the caption on the Modern Whig banner photos: "If I do not act for my nation, no one will do it for me." This is the proper response for people to make who are tired of choosing between candidates that they can not fully support, or not voting at all.
Mr. Jack might be speaking with tongue in cheek to an extent as we all know the Republican Party is not going to let go of the religious right. At the same time, the Democrats will never return to Camelot. So why not have a new Party that is not encumbered with the ideological blinders that Mr. Jack points out?
Moderates from both the Democrats and the Republicans are closer to each other than they are to what is now the base of their respective parties. Both will accept fiscal responsibility, and both will accept social responsibility. Above all else both truly put America first. These are the people who saw the need and willing paid for both the Interstate Highway project and the moon missions.
It is time for them to come together again.
"And in the political arena, perception is reality."
Pretty much true of ALL arenas isn't it? A person's perspective on anything IS their own personal reality. The use of adjectives such as "left-wing" and "ideological" is a manifestation of that perception.
"Unless Obama reaches out and is willing to compromise, the nation is looking forward to four more years of similar political machinations and gridlock."
Seem like that would be equally true for Republicams, wouldn't it?
"Republicans again will be required to press for their principles from a minority"
A 411 to Bob, Republicans are not a minority in the House of Representatives.
Republicans have 30 governors in the nation.
Republicans control 27 of the state legislatures.
I do believe that Democrats will get creamed again in the next non-presidential election cycle like they got creamed in the last non-presidential election cycle.
How soon we forget where the country was four years ago,
Many American who think you just wave a magic wand and all is well, are living is a fairy tale land. It's called the Bubble. Soon, Gridlock will be no more! Repeat Gridlock will be no more.
If your following events in Washington and in the States that elected democratic senators, you should know that step are being taking to stop gridlock. The major obstructionist in the senate is about to lose the power to obstruct. Republican Senators who have moderate views will come out of the closet and support reasonable measures that will help the country.
Gridlock in Washington is about to become pass'e.
Hooray! 4 more years of "gridlock" will even the books. The Dumbocrats had their 8 years when George W. was prexy; now it's the Republicrats turn and if 4 more years of "gridlock" stop Osama Obama and his fellow travelers in their Socialist tracks, so much the better!
BChap,
You might be right that if restricted to only those who comment here I might not be able to get 10 people to commit to the Whigs. But there are thousands more who read these comments and do participate. I believe discussions like this one do not go unnoticed by those readers.
Intellectually I would like to see third parties succeed both locally and nationally, in my particular case some kind of libertarian green philosophy. Practically, though, it would be a potential disaster. We have seen the damage that a narrow doctrinaire base base can do to a party in our two party system. Think of the gridlock if we had more of them. Unless we are willing to consider a parliamentary system then leave third parties out of the equation except as pressure points on the existing majority parties.
Comment removed by moderator. Trolling.
The reality is that everyone in the 99% class is worse off than four years ago, even a company that makes Twinkies can not survive.
wharfrat,
May I suggest you visit the Modern Whig website?
I understand your point since the TEA Party has given us such a strong example of what happens when what is effectively a faction of a major party exerts its will. But I do not believe that the same result would occur in the case of a distinct third party's presence in Congress.
Speaking for the Whigs, it is our belief that the presence of a block of 20 - 30 Whigs in the House would prevent either the Democrats or the Republicans from having an outright majority, thereby giving the Whig block the ability to swing a vote to whichever side we believe is correct on a given issue.
It would take a block of as few as 5 Whigs, but more realistically 7 - 10 in the Senate to do the same thing.
There is no need for a parliamentary system. Instead, we need three distinct parties in Congress that will force a compromise so long as no single party has a majority. There is nothing in our Constitution that prevents that.
Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.
The Party of No had its clock cleaned so we'll have to wait and see if Boehner and McConnell get the message that they were sent to Washington to work for a better America, not to obstruct and delay.
What to watch for: If, during negotiations between Congress and the White House, John Boehner breaks down and cries like a baby, that's probably a sign that some positive things are getting done (like raising taxes on the top 2%).
I wouldn't consider passing the largest tax increase in American history as gridlock (ACA). Raising taxes on the rich 3.5% is laughable, it should be 10-15% minimum, especially unearnd income like the Romney's and Pelosi's in America.
The gridlock starts with the voter. How does this state elect a Democratic President and Republican Senator, all the while demanding changes to government? I guess Nevada really desires that "reach across the aisle" thingy to work huh? Well, it all starts with an acceptance of reality, a spirit of cooperation, an effort to compromise, and the unyielding acknowledgement that, "A house divided against itself truly cannot stand", which is a certainty and not just rhetoric.
This 23 million jobs nonsense is the biggest piece of Republican bull to come out of the election. Historically we have had unemployment at about 5%. Currently 8% with 150 million labor force participants. That's about 4.5 million above trend.
We have barely created 23 million jobs in the last 23 years.
A tad over a million jobs a year is about what we are capable of producing with strong immigration and decent birth rates. We don't even have that. Births are the lowest in recorded history and we don't have nearly enough immigration.
We have this FINAL CHANCE for O. to DO SOMETHING: what spending will you cut and WHEN?
boftx: So tell me about this "new" third party. We NEED CHANGE.
bofx I am going to look for the Whig website now. In my opinion voting in Obama twice is like backing up the Titanic and running into the iceberg again.
To the Moderator:
Please provide the definition of Trolling. I looked it up on the internet and it sounded derogatory.
I read this Letter to the Editor in the newspaper this morning and went on line to post a comment.
to all those republican clowns out there...
news flash...
you lost...
big time...
in fact...
i would say...
you butts got whooped...
now...
the part you don't seem to get is...
part of the reason you lost so badly was...
exactly what jack-a-roo is espousing...
not compromising...
hoping for gridlock as a goal to be achieve...
hee hee hee...
you guys just don't get it...
and to me...
all i am hearing on this page is...
boo hoo hoo...
wah wah wah...
what is just so damn funny to me...
is that we proud liberal democrats...
keep kicking your republican clowns behind...
i mean i had to get a couple of new pair of boots just from the butt whoopings we have handed you...
hee hee hee...
i mean obama crushed mccain...
health care got passed...
upheld by the supreme court...
harry has been senate majority leader forever...
obama destroyed romney...
positions in the senate and the house have been improved...
and yet...
yet...
you jokers are still pretending to be dealing from a position of strength...
hee hee hee...
i have got to tell you...
that is flippin hysterical!!!
Kepi: Scroll back to the top of the "Discussions" section on this screen, click the link for the "Full comments policy," search for "troll," and follow that to Wikipedia. Personally, I don't care for Wikipedia as a research source, but often it will lead you to better-documented original sources, as in this case. You'll get more information than you ever wanted to know.
In reply to "Houstonjac"; we have our share of disagreements, but I always look forward to your letters to the editor. You're straight up and blunt in your views. I like that!
I agree that government should be leaner and more efficient. During my decades working for the government I've seen more than enough of those that are the "fat", and the redundant. I say, without reservation, eliminate those agencies, appointed posts and positions.
When it comes to the private sector, I believe our "free enterprise" system needs some serious regulating and revamping too.
The Hostess Corporation is a prime example. This business is folding primarily due to labor union greed. I have no doubt what the Hostess CEO stated is true;
"The strike was fatal blow for the company and that it is too late to fix it."
I believe this is where government regulation should come in to play on the free enterprise system.
For example, no employee wage or salary should be guaranteed, except, of course, no lower than the provisions of minimum wage. On a quarterly basis, employee costs need to be independently audited and verified that would include total compensation costs, which are base salary, overtime and or supplemental pay, vacation and other paid time off, and the employer's portion of health coverage, employee taxes, and workers' compensation insurance premiums. These costs should never exceed 30 percent, but not less than 20 percent of what total amount the business grosses in this same quarterly timeframe. Should the business, during this timeframe, make a clear profit over and above all business expenditures, quarterly bonus checks must be issued on a sliding percentage scale for all employees, on all levels. The rate of employee bonuses should be, if the business profits grew by 10 percent, then the employer can afford to spend 7-8 percent more on bonuses for this particular quarterly timeframe.
No business can survive when their total expenditures for salaries are at or near the 50 percent level. Just ask the Hostess Corporation.
In the case of the Hostess Corporation, once labor unions demand salaries and increases for its membership that put the individual business at risk of shutting down, the government needs to step in and warn the union to either end the strike, or face being decertified.
Gerry,
We had this discussion last year. The labor participation rate refers to the number of people who are either employed or are actively looking for work. The number of people who are no longer actively searching for work would not be included in the participation rate. The labor participation rate has actually fallen since 2008.
Labor Force Participation rate
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS113000...
The percent of the population working has fallen as well since 2008 from 62.2% to 58.8%.
http://bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea01.htm
Brad...I have a news flash for ya!!!Businesses don't survive in large numbers to begin with. There are only a few million employer businesses in the US and close to 90% fail in 10 years.
Competition and demand factors destroy most businesses in short order.
The vast majority of businesses can't afford to pay people what they need to be financially independent. Aggregate costs are WAY too high and need to come down for the welfare rolls to shrink.
You can't fault folks for wanting the American dream. High wages are the only way to get it other than generational wealth and marriage.
GOPers should look at the bright side of their crushing defeat -- America will become a stronger country now that fringe lunatics on the far-right have been marginalized.
The lesson: Crazy talk about legitimate, god-intended rape or 2nd Amendment remedies will not go unpunished at the ballot box.
Watching fevered Birthers make fools of themselves has been very entertaining over the last four years but at the end of the day the Kenyon Muslim Marxist socialist won a second term with 332 Electoral Votes and will likely go down in history as one of our nation's most important figures.
In reply to Gerry; as well, I have a news flash for you.
No business, the nations economy, nor its line-workers can either achieve or maintain the "American Dream" at whatever levels when there is greed at any level. One will always, sooner or later, take down the other.
When the money tree is dead, and no longer is frutful, you can sit at the base of that dead tree and wait as long as you desire for it to grow and produce. The news flash for you is, "Go ahead and waste your time wishing and wanting. It's not ever coming back"!!!
"Gerry", in addition, I've watched an acquaintance of mine live by these principals I outlined above. This is where I learned them from. His business during the recession made it, and is now once again thriving.
You can best believe the bonuses he pays ensures his line-workers the "American Dream". He has an approximate two year waiting list of applicants just drooling to work for his company.
Imagine that. He's not well educated; but he is surely a man who believes in fairness and honesty to his employees. And they truly love him too!!!
"There are only a few million employer businesses in the US and close to 90% fail in 10 years".
There are 6 million employer firms who employ approximately 120 million people. We currently have approximately 143 million people working so the employer firms make up 83% of the working population.
Gerry, with all do respect, I believe your 90% failure rate among employer firms is a little high.
http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html...
Ref...You are correct! 83% looks about right. My source on the above data was lousy.
The data on business failures is also cloudy. It looks like about 70% fail in 10 years. Apologies to all. Have a great day!
SECOND REQUEST
To the Moderator:
Please provide the definition of Trolling. I looked it up on the internet and it sounded derogatory.
I read this Letter to the Editor in the newspaper this morning and went on line to post a comment.
renorobert,
Thank you for your response. When I returned home, I thought the Moderator would respond since I flagged myself twice. Since they did not respond, I sent the second request and flagged myself again.
I did not see your comment, which I appreciate. However, I would like the Moderator to respond I don't care if it is yellow. I did nothing wrong. I read the newspaper and got on site like I do every single day. My comment was not in any way derogatory, name-calling, it was mild compared to what is written in this discussion room. I spent all day talking about this situation, which is so insignificant.
Thanks again.
Have a nice day :)
TO THE MODERATOR,
Respond if you like, but I strongly disagree with the removal of my comment and will contact your office on Monday.
Okay, let us carefully provide additional details relative to my opinion regarding the Letter to the Editor.
I believe it is a well-written letter; however, it is my opinion, that the letter is riddled with falsehoods and misrepresentations.
Regarding demographics and welfare economics, are you specifically referring to Blacks, Latinos, Asians, and poor people who voted against the Republican Party and voted instead for a Democratic candidate? Your letter and the comments within are an insult to all of the abovementioned groups of people. Was that your intent? If not, what was your intent? Please provide a detailed explanation.
The Republican Party's sole objective is to reduce the size of government; thereby restricting government oversight and regulations that oversee corporations and citizens. Oversight is so that they can't do what they want, when they want, and how they want in order to possible commit fraud, poison our environment and in in general, just cheat and take short cuts to increase the bottom line. Does anyone ever look at the recall lists?
The Obama Administration has been much more pro-business than G.W. Bush and passed fewer regulations and has a smaller government workforce. The corporations and wealthy have had tax relief for 11 years; they are not hiring, they are hoarding cash, cutting back on employees hours to avoid paying benefits, making work conditions miserable for the employees while laying off people and shipping jobs off-shore.
They have had 11 years to invest and grow; instead, they cut back and hoarded cash. In addition, state workers like firefighters, law enforcement and teachers are being eliminated adding to the unemployment numbers.
Ideological, left wing offers solutions as opposed to ideological, right wing that does nothing but complain a lot. Reaching out to a Party with 380 filibusters in 3 years is ridiculous and futile. The Republican Party causes the gridlock and it is going to cost them a great deal in the end.
People want compromise. We are over it and sick and tired of being pushed aside so that Corporate America's CEO's put more in their pocketbooks.
I strongly object that my one sentence comment was called "Trolling". The election is over; we as a people need to work together for a better future for our children and grandchildren.
Kepi wrote "Ideological, left wing offers solutions as opposed to ideological".
Kepi, can you give us a run down of these left-wing solutions?
PART I
@Freeman,
Thank you for asking. You have probably heard all of these before in one form or another, so let me try to remember what I have heard and what I think.
Extend the tax cuts for everyone making under $250k, let the tax cuts expire for everyone over $250k.
Tackle the 73,000 page IRS rules to eliminate the ridiculous tax loopholes that enable the richest corporations and individuals to pay a tax rate closer to 13% than 39.6%. How can Romney and people like Romney have $100 million IRA's? I know it is legal, but is it right. Is it fair when only a select group is allowed that type of tax haven. I know it's called deferred income or other clever titles, but it's wrong.
Find ways to eliminate offshore tax-dodging accounts.
Restore the tax rates on interest, dividends and capital gains to 39.6%. Please do not say that income has already been taxed, so what. Only the wealthy have that access to preferred taxation.
Pass a Jobs Bill beginning with infrastructure spending on the $3 trillion in upgrades and repairs that are way overdue. Our infrastructure is multiple disasters waiting to happen.
Initiate two job-training programs. One to give everyone on welfare marketable job skills training with welfare dropping off after the after job training program is completed. This type of job training program could be conducted in empty factories and warehouses across the country. In addition to accommodating the job training, it can have day care centers, pre-schools, beginning public school training and some form of limited medical facilities for everyone in the buildings.
The second type of training would be for workers whose job skills are outdated and/or for those whose skills are no longer needed. This would enable people to obtain the necessary training for today's job market. These same type of factories or warehouses could be used for this level of training. Innovative ideas have gone with the loss of factory jobs because many innovative ideas came from the factory workers on the floor. This level of training would help many people obtain marketable skills. Jobs would be created on site for instructors to develop training programs.
PART II
@Freeman,
Tax U.S. corporations on profits regardless of where the product is made. Bring back the $2 trillion in offshore accounts and tax it accordingly. Forget about WIN America, it is extortion on behalf of US multinational corporations to bring back the $2 trillion to the U.S. with little to no taxation. That was done in 2004 and it was a disaster, as you may already know. Those corporations lied and cheated the government. WIN America is sponsored by a couple of Democrats and the request letter from the U.S. multinational corporations is in the government's hands.
Forget the pseudo- sponsorship of for-profit schools for military vets. These schools leave the vets and other graduates with student loan debt and no job possibilities.
Grow everything through the middle-class, they have been neglected for 30 years and it shows. We cannot grow an economy through making the rich richer and squeezing the middle-class into oblivion. Restore fair wages and benefit through unions or not depending on the situations.
So in summary, make the tax system fair, train people and put everyone back to work. Let us go back to the end of WWII and start over again and do it right this time.
I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving! :)
Kepi,
American's top three concerns are jobs, the economy and debt/deficit spending. We should enact pro-growth policies aimed at growing our economy and creating jobs which would raise tax revenue. In order to close the gap between tax revenue collected and government spending, we need consumers with means to spend, investors investing and more Americans employed.
Kepi, Obama used our nation's economic crisis to further his redistributionist agenda, consequently, American prosperity has stalled. Obama's "government-knows-best philosophy" gave us four years of high unemployment, higher gas prices, a $16 trillion deficit, and a job-killing regulatory environment. 23 million Americans are unemployed or under-employed including 50% of college graduates who can't find work in their chosen field. We've seen enough from the anti-business/ class warfare Obama to know his policies don't work. Obama, unions and occupiers do not create jobs, businesses and entrepreneurs do and the initiatives you outlined are anti-business.
Freeman: The redistributionist policy has been going on for the 30 years, all of it up. The wealthy have made enormous strides, the middle class not so much. The economy stinks now because the middle class doesn't have enough money to purchase things: this is a demand problem. The policies that would start to reverse this trend have been stonewalled by the Republicans at every turn. The Republicans don't want the economy to get better under a Democratic president, and have said as much. The American people have voted a Black Man (again) into the white house, during a terrible economy, rather than accept this malarky any longer. The Republicans know that their base is diminishing, that gives us voter suppression and gerrymandering, rather than putting in sensible policy that appeals. Stonewalling, suppression, gerrymandering, and 1950's social policy. That equals a loss. Quit blame-storming everyone else. The fault is with your party. What will it take to make you see clearly?
I love the fact that Conservatives have always labelled minorities as 'other', refusing to assimilate into the majority, always chained to their identities rather than trying to fit into America. Now that we're hitting a tipping point, and the conservatives will be in the minority, I wonder if the conservative will give up all their identity and assimilate like "a good American would". If you defiantly hold up your fist and say you'll never give up who you are to fit the majority, you may have just learned something about life and people in general. Sadly, I'm sure the irony is lost on you.
Blaming anyone else besides the revolving door of "Freeman" styled corporate morons for the Hostess debacle is ridiculous. Here's a story from a few days before the execs killed an American institution:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/17...
Modern Whig Party = disaster for Republicanism.
Go Bacon go!
The dems ain't looking to Partner with the functionally illiterate and unless you get a 50/50 split with dems and Neanderthals you've just became the TEA party redux.
Kepi. the Moderators are Republican, how else does one explain their respective inability to keep Republican lies off their Site.
Your heart and ethics are beyond reproach. Don't let these inconsistent wizard of Oz wannabes upset you.
Class warfare? Which class?
http://video.pbs.org/video/2300849486
Bob Jack......
Of course you have that in complete reverse.
Your republican minority are the ones who need to
compromise.
The majority of Americans have spoken.
They rejected your republican policies.
And you republicans lost more seats in the House
and Senate as proof.
If republicans continue gridlock, the rest of
them will be voted out of the House and Senate
in two years.
The writing is on the wall.
We Democrats will always out-number you
republicans.
boftx.....
The wig party is nothing more than warmed over
republicans.
And that's the last thing this country needs.
We Democrats will handle this country just fine.
kepi...
Some excellent comments today!
And might I add...
With all the ACTUAL trolling that goes on around here on a daily basis, I am surprised the 'moderator' actually made some kind of subjective call on your comment and deleted it; perhaps someone got woken up, rolled over & hit the wrong switch.
CreatedEQL,
The 2009 Obama $867 billion dollar stimulus was suppose to bring our unemployment rate down to under 6% by now according to Obama's own economic team when the stimulus passed. Our unemployment rate, again, according to Obama's economic team was not suppose to clime above 8% but did for several years. Now? Our unemployment rate is still hovering around 8% at 7.9% What happened? Did big government spending not solve our economic woes?
Obama presented unserious budgets in 2011 & 2012 that did not get one single democratic vote.
It's clear to many that Obama doesn't have the right solutions.
Even many of his fellow democrats up for re-election this month did not ask Obama to campaign for them. Gee, I wonder why? Could it be because of his failed economic policies like the stimulus?
Obama's class warfare tax plan already failed this year in the house with 20 democrats voting against it. Obama needs to start presenting plans that will win over votes from his own party.
Created Equal :
Don't listen to the architects of our economic morass like Freeman for solutions:
Here is a better road map:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/im...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/04...
Freeman has been pasting the same misleading "facts and figures" for over a year.
He'd have you believe Obama is the financial antichrist.
Jeff,
I understand why you don't want to discuss Obama's failed economic policies or budgets and a class warfare tax plan that can't even get enough votes from Obama's own political party to pass. We've see this from you and other liberals for a couple of years now.
The reality:
The Republicans, through various channels, Foxnews, Gover Norquist, Rush Limbaugh, the Bradley Foundation, Karl Rove, Newt Gingrich, Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, and others, manufactured a perception of President Obama's domestic policy and sold the perception every day over the airwaves.
The perception was reinforced by the reality of Republican Senate and House members obstructing anything the President put forth to improve conditions in America.
So, having a debate on actions that were intentionally and willfully designed to stop progress is a false debate. A debate flawed with fraudulent intent, which produce false results because of the obstruction by Republican Senators and House Members.
By the President own words, he said the recession was deeper than expected after arriving at the White House. In the President own words, he said the recovery would take longer than expected. This reality was ignored by lawmakers, instead many saw this as an opportunity make sure the President failed. But, if you will recall, when the House Members failed to act, the President said he would take his case to the American People. He did, and won his case.
The point here, debating numbers projected by the Obama administration over the last 3 plus years must take into account the willful and intentional actions by lawmakers to obstruct on all levels of President Obama's administration. This includes the Senate delaying or not bringing to the floor candidates selected by the President to fill cabinets seats and Judge appointments, in addition to the House on measures that in the past were bipartisan that would help the country, now being rejected or delayed. All of this combine makes for a slow down in all area of the government and country.
On the position side, all this obstruction did not stop over 4 millions jobs being created. If there were the least bit of cooperation from Republicans, the job numbers would be greater. No doubt.
So debating President Obama domestic policy from a negative stand point is a false debate when including the obstruction from the Republicans and others who willfully opposed reasonable measures that were once acceptable and championed by the opposition. The debate must be about the positive in face of obstruction. This would be a true debate we all can learn from.
Freeman: The premise of your argument is flawed. Obama's "failed stimulus" is opinion, not fact. The stimulus didn't live up to Obama's prediction, but still is working. If you want to bash Obama for not flawlessly seeing into the future, that says more about you than him. The fact is that the recession ended in 2009. Since that time, jobs are slowly rebounding (despite Republican attempts to stonewall), and the stock market has doubled. The election was a vote on who's economic policy Americans believed would work going forward, and the people voted to end trickle-down and support Obama. Exit polls showed 60% of Americans sided with Obama on the economy, more that voted for him! The people, rightly so, believe that a strong middle-class with purchasing power are the REAL job creators. The only problem we now have is Republicans are still stonewalling, believing their own bubble narrative still...STILL, STILL! Hubris.
Freeman:
You can dwell on the blaming Obama till the cows come home.
Tell us what you are willing to consider from both sides of the aisle that will respect the countries 50/50 split. Unless you are looking forward you are the property of the TEA party.
Freeman: When I was a kid, my dad's boss lived in our neighborhood. He had a bigger house, and an Olds instead of a Chevy, but he lived among us. Fast forward to today. My dad still has a Chevy. The boss, on the other hand, lives in a gated community, sends his kids to private school, and drives multiple Mercedes, and BMW's. The boss spends his days thinking of how to cut wages further, who he can fire, and what he can send overseas. That same situation is played out all over America.
When you state that there is class warfare, and transference of wealth, you are absolutely 100% correct in your assessment. However, you are completely blind when it comes to the direction it went.
Re-leveling the playing field so that the middle-class can regain their purchasing power (and thus help business) is the right way to go. It isn't class-warfare now, that is already done and over with. This is simply a return to common sense.
CreatedEQL,
My ex-boss use to be a director who managed 9 plant managers in the US and Canada but now drives a delivery truck delivering car parts to repair shops. We can pick and choose our stories to fit our premise all day long.
Bob Jack must have been asleep during the miserable failure administration of bush/cheney that increased the National Debt over 100%--twice that of all previous presidents combined.
Bob Jack never woke up when bush/cheney and Republicans in Congress put their rubber stamp approval of the "Housing Fraud Bubble" with their narrow minded ideology of totally unregulated capitalism that gave the green light to unbelievable criminal corruption in the Financial and Housing sectors of our economy.
The "Bubble" burst and caused the almost financial market collapse.
The results:
The loss of $34,000,000,000,000=$34 Trillion of America's wealth that took over 220 years to create and will take decades to fully recover.
The loss of approximately 8,000,000 jobs.
Hundreds of thousands of families pushed into poverty.
Millions of Foreclosures.
The average equity loss in every homeowners home=$100,000.
The Republicans created this economic mess we are in but they developed a strategy of obstruction and sabotage of the economy just so they could blame President Obama and gain politically.
Did the Republican Obstructionist care they were economically hurting the hard pressed Americans?
Hades no! All they are interested in his power to the Party. Almost all the Republicans in Congress rubber stamp their approval on everything the party leadership tells them to.
The Republicans in Congress were elected to look out for the citizens interest, but because of their very weak moral character they forgot about the citizens that elected them
Now, Who are the Obstructionists and who needs to cooperate?
ReFreeman,
Your ex-boss can thank President Obama for his job. The Obama administration is fighting against China's unbalance trading of auto parts. Mainly Chinese government subsidized exports.
Particularly China's emerging policy of setting up so-called export bases in which automakers receive incentives to make cars and car parts for overseas markets. Policies that may violate international trade rules.
In addition, your ex-boss can blame job exporters like ex-presidential candidate Mitt Romney for sending his job abroad. Plus, your ex-boss landed a job in the growth sector of the US economy. There is plenty of room to advance if your ex-boss chooses to do so.
Kepi: A simplified tax plan...
1. ALL individual income from ALL sources is taxable - no exemptions, no deductions, no exceptions.
2. Tax the first $10, 000 at 1%; the next $50,000 at 10-15%; the next $250,000 at 20-30%; the next $1M at 40-50%, with perhaps another 2-3 groups beyond that, ending with a rate of about 90% on perhaps the final $20-30M and above. Of course the rates/break points are subject to debate - but rates MUST graduate and end quite high.
3. Taxes on earned income and interest are remitted by the payor when paid, and deducted from payment to the payee. Taxes on all other income will be reported and paid annually.
4. Losses? Not considered. They are the penalty for bad decisions.
I think I could fit that on one or two (if I get wordy...) pages of 8.5 x 11 inch paper
Renorobert, says,
"Losses? Not considered. They are the penalty for bad decisions."
You should reconsider No. 4. Not all losses are related to risk taking.
Longtimevegan wrote "Your ex-boss can thank President Obama for his job."
Actually, his brother-in-law got him the job.
Longtimevegan wrote "In addition, your ex-boss can blame job exporters like ex-presidential candidate Mitt Romney for sending his job abroad."
His job was moved to Toledo, OH and his wife/children did not want to live in Toledo.
Freeman had a "big shot" boss running 9 companies or branches in 2 countries but refused to transfer out of Toledo so he drives an auto parts delivery truck?
ReFreeman, says,
"Actually, his brother-in-law got him the job."
"His job was moved to Toledo, OH and...."
That is good. A job your ex-boss brother-in-law could give because of President Obama's fight to ensure the auto industry in the USA remained intact.
When a company moves jobs, that could mean several things. The most obvious is downsizing. Usually downsizing is the result of reducing cost to be efficient and competitive. These actions are the results of competition. America is experiencing severe competition from Chinese imports, not from within the USA. So it stands to reason your ex-boss is one of many who lost their job directly or indirectly from competing products and services from abroad. Meaning, either imports affected your ex-boss old job, or your ex-boss company moved jobs overseas to remain competitive. Moving jobs overseas is something ex-presidential candidate Mitt Romney has experience in doing.
Still, the job your ex-boss now has is with the help of President Obama. Bottom line, 360 my friend, either way you look at it.
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Longtimevegan: I might agree with you that " Not all losses are related to risk taking." but I'm having a hard time visualizing such. Storm damage from Sandy? You build near the coast you should expect a chance of property damage. Earthquake damage in Nevada? Even I know that there will be an earthquake where I live. Fall in housing prices? Nevadans of all people should be familiar with mining's bonanza/borrasca cycles. A drop in the stock market? See the previous comment. Death of a major business owner? Death of a spouse? There has never been a time when people didn't die. Let me rephrase: I'm having a hard time visualizing how any loss I may suffer would not be, in part, the result of risk taking: if nothing else from a decision about how much I participate in society.
Kepi 3:58: Conservatives do NOT want to eliminate oversight. They want to ELIMINATE social welfare for long-term dependent whiners. But here's the point: Private enterprise is NOT about businesses seeking to employ every yahoo that wants an income but has no marketable skills. Private enterprise encourages businesses to PROFIT by hiring the best employees who have the bottom line in mind.
Created 9:29: Ya sure, there IS a demand problem. Too many career-indigents DEMANDING you and I pay for their every need, want, whim. It's an arithmetic thing: Exponential growth in numbers and "needs" with negative growth in employable workers supporting the tax system.
renorobert,
First, I like your suggestion on the tax proposal you offered. The Number 4 is the sticky item.
Great point on your response. I have no counter on your argument. Over the broad spectrum, you are correct. There is risk in anything we do. Maybe one can consider a loss due to an Act of God? Then again, we're back to debate on losses.
Any suggestions, or leave Number 4 intact?
Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.
renorobert,
I wanted to respond to you earlier; however, it has been a crazy couple of days and very busy. However, I did want to comment before my time is up as I am not a trusted commentator. Having said that; I totally agree with Longtimevegan, November 19, 2012 @ 11:28 a.m.
I liked your tax proposal when I first read it and so did my husband.
Have to go now, may be back :)
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Roberta: You make me laugh out loud, thanks. People who pay into SS and the like, then retire, or heaven forbid get sick, are part of the 47% of takers who demand too much. So how to solve? Give more money to the rich, and fire some teachers and police. And you wonder why you lost?