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July 23, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Where is the real Obama?

Why should anyone ever believe what President Barack Obama says regarding any social or political issue?

I ask this with great concern, for the current hot issue is the definition of marriage. The dictionary defines marriage as between a man and woman. In fact, Obama had it right in his book “The Audacity of Hope,” saying that society had the right to “carve out a special place for the union of a man and a woman as the unit of child rearing most common to every culture.”

Is not Obama’s current announcement on same-sex marriage a complete reversal to his book statement on this issue? Will the real Obama stand up?

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  1. Many seem adamant that marriage vows should be between a man and a woman. Yet, statistics tell us that too many are much less persistant in keeping those vows. Often, what is promised "forever" does, instead, have a finite time span.

    Perhaps heterosexuals should get their relationships in order before they decide the proper expression of gay relationships.

  2. "The dictionary defines marriage as between a man and woman."

    Lanzrath -- as if any of us should let some etymologist define our intimate relationships for us. Obama's oath of office, like all government officials, is to support, protect, defend, etc., the Constitution. That includes protecting the people's civil liberties, separation of religion from government, and equal protection of the laws. So what part of "equality" don't you understand?

    "Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." -- Democritus (460-370 B.C.E.)

  3. Perhaps we could use the definition of marriage as understood by people in earlier centuries where women were considered property? Or how about that crazy marriage in the bible where King David had how many wives? What about the rights of Kings to deflower women before those women's own marriage was consummated? Gee, it is almost as if conservatives don't know any real history at all.
    So Ref, You in favor of liquidating GM to get pennies on the dollar? Travel to Michigan and see how well that viewpoint goes over there.

  4. It's a flip flop, but not all flip flops are created equal. There is an enormous difference between the President's change in position on same-sex marriage after years of consideration, and what we see from Mitt Romney, which is an overnight reversal on any issue in the name of political expediency.

  5. "Perhaps we could use the definition of marriage as understood by people in earlier centuries where women were considered property? ... What about the rights of Kings to deflower women before those women's own marriage was consummated? Gee, it is almost as if conservatives don't know any real history at all."

    mschaffer -- good history lesson! The ancient Romans had two forms called "with manus" and "without manus." In one a couple just moved in together and announced they were married. When it was time to split they did the reverse. How incredibly civilized. Your other example was portrayed in "Braveheart" -- prima noctis, and was exercised by nobles, not just the king. How incredibly despotic.

    "It was the same with those old birds in Greece and Rome as it is now. . . . The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know." -- President Harry Truman on the insight "Plutarch's Lives" gave him

  6. For some reason, according to this letter, President Obama is not permitted to change his mind regarding an issue like this. And if he does, HE MUST BE OSTRACIZED AND CRUCIFIED UNTIL HE IS DEAD!

    On the other side of the aisle, his opponent doesn't change his mind. Especially about this issue. I give him that.

    But everything else? Hell, he changes his mind faster than an oscillating fan.

    Obama for another four years. AND a Democratic Party majority in both the Senate and the House.

  7. So now I get it! When liberals change their minds they are "evolving" and when conservatives do it it is considered flip-flopping. I get it.

    Victor if you would like to see how the MSM can flip-flop consider the high price of gas. When gas prices went up during the Bush years the cry was that Bush was "ruining he country". Now with high gas prices they have actually come out and said that it is a good thing. Now that is evolution.

  8. John,
    It depends on the reasons for changing your mind. Without understanding the context for such changes your statement is the opposite of getting it.

  9. Mark thank you for your clarification. Now I really get it.

    Cheers.

  10. KillerB - "Obama's oath of office, like all government officials, is to support, protect, defend, etc., the Constitution. That includes protecting the people's civil liberties, separation of religion from government, and equal protection of the laws. So what part of "equality" don't you understand?"

    Exactly! That is what some of these people conveniently forget. There is a separation of church and state and you can't cherry pick parts of the United States Constitution and disregard the rest. Equality is for ALL not just a few. We've recently had a judge in the south refuse to marry an interracial couple. Should we bring back Jim Crow laws because it suits the needs of simpletons?

  11. jrtsr - "So now I get it! When liberals change their minds they are "evolving" and when conservatives do it it is considered flip-flopping. I get it."

    That's the problem, today's radical conservatives don't evolve. They are stuck living on a 10,000 year old flat planet.

  12. Vernos: I guess that "radical" is only applicable to conservatives. Flat earth planet? Really?

    Mark I have been meaning to ask you. Do you spend your entire day looking down your nose at people or is it just the posters on the Sun and the RJ?

  13. You mean Obama is a POLITICIAN!!!! My goodness gracious. If you look at the various fact check organizations Romney and Obama are running neck and neck in terms of truth telling. About 20% of what they say is true.

  14. http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServ...
    Take the above chart back to 1948. Employment increased when women entered the work force. It peaked in the mid 1990s when the baby boomer retirements began.

  15. http://www.bls.gov/jlt/
    In terms of creating JOBS. There are currently millions of them. Listings are at the highest level in years. Almost 4 MILLION jobs available.

  16. Victor I don't watch or listen to Fox News. NEVER! I was just pointing out that flip-flopping is not exclusive to politicians. I was not attempting to throw out a straw man argument but I can see how it would look that way. That was my mistake.

    I just cannot understand how people can look at a Dem or a Repub and say that they are always correct not matter how stupid their comments or actions may be. I am more conservative that liberal but I recognize that not everything that Republicans say or do is correct and I should defend them at all cost.

  17. http://www.politifact.com/personalities/...
    You think Romney will get into flip flops..give me a break. 23 out of his last 100 statements are true. They are both up to their asses in false statements.

  18. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...
    In terms of his uncle liberating Auschwitz....It was Ohrdruf 40 miles outside of Buchenwald. Big deal he got the camp wrong..long time ago and the uncle is dead.

  19. Gerry we don't always agree but you are 100% correct. They are both rife with false statements. This will be the case from now until November.

    To be honest with you I wish Hillary were running again.

  20. Dennis with 4 more years of Obama we may not make it intact until '16.

  21. Let's put some of this girl talk into a statistical perspective. My personal favorite! Politicians bend the truth to get votes. They all do it. In these major elections they tell the truth about 20% of the time.

    The labor force participation rate has been dropping since the mid-90s because of the 52 million Americans that have retired. Currently Americans are retiring at the rate of 10 to 20,000 people a day.

    Manufacturing and housing have been the main unemployment drivers according to the Dun & Bradstreet monthly business trend reports. Millions have lost jobs in these industries. These industries are slowly coming back and as stated above there are currently nearly 4,000,000 jobs available in the United States if people want them. I live up in Tule Springs. There is construction currently going on everyplace I look. Hundreds of homes are being built and commercial construction is picking up.

    I'm not big on politics but looking at the numbers it's likely to play out this way. Intrade currently has Romney running 38% in terms of his chances of being elected. In my view if Romney can take Florida and Ohio he's got it in the bag. If he can't he's got big problems.

  22. Zip: Tule Springs. You mean Floyd Lamb State Park? What an insult to Tule Springs that was(is).

    Talk about off topic, eh? Moderators be kind...

    Cheers

  23. The author is complaining about Obama but he needs to ask, is Mitt Romney delusional or just plain crazy? He claims he knows how to create jobs, but while governor of Massachusetts (2003 to 2007) the state declined in job growth from thirty seventh to forty seventh. Only three states, Ohio and Michigan which suffered the auto industry failure and Louisiana from the effects of Katrina were worse. Romney wrote an op-ed in the N.Y. Times condemning government loans to the auto industry but now claims he saved that industry. He wrote another op-ed in 2009 for USA Today, clearly stating that a mandate was a necessary part of controlling health care costs under a bill he implemented in Massachusetts. He was for raising the minimum wage before he was against it. He supported Planned Parenthood before he opposed it. He defended the right to have abortions and was pro embryonic research, now he is anti abortion. Romney said, "We have a president who I think is a nice guy, but he spent too much time at Harvard." Has Mitt Romney forgotten he acquired two degrees while attending Harvard? This is the man who said he wouldn't go after Bin Laden because it was too costly but nows says any president would do so. Remember people, Romney believes we are fighting a cold war against the Soviet Union.

    Forget shaking an Etch a Sketch, Mitt Romney can spin faster than a top on steroids in an attempt to appeal to the radical right of his party.

  24. But Future, GM is the No. 1 car maker. I know because the libs have said so right here many times.

    BTW, can someone explain to me why all of those dealerships had to close? Same for Chrysler dealerships. It is not like the car manufacturers were somehow subsidizing them. Unless I am mistaking GM or Chrysler should benefit by having more dealerships. But, some have said that this is politically motivated because a majority of them were not Obama backers. That cannot be true can it? Can it?

  25. Dennis I don't care about Bin Laden. He is old news and meant nothing in present day discussions. Yes it would have meant something had Bush done something about him but he did not. That is another item that we can add up to 43's failures.

    GM would not be dead and that is the problem you libs seem to cling to. That is what structured bankruptcy is all about. They would still be in business and we would not be on the hook for billions. Your argument about consolidation is BS. If a dealership cannot make it on their own they go BK! It has NOTHING to do with he manufacturers.

  26. Dennis says "john; tell that bs to wall street!" Please tell me what that means! Did Wall Street close those dealerships? No. Did financial instability close those dealerships? No. Obama closed those dealerships. Why can you not realize his failure? How can you continue to support a failure?

    Bush was a failure. I admit it. Clinton was not a failure and I also admit that. Yet you and many others continue to support this FOOL and when someone points that out you continue to support him. Dennis I am sorry but that just makes you look the fool as well.

    Cheers.

  27. Ref.. Using your graph which I believe is the same as my graph and changing the date to 1990. The labor force participation rates peaked in the 1990s and have been declining ever since. As I see it the rate has dropped from about 67% to about 64% today. Maybe I'm missing something.

    Regarding your other points I'm not asking Americans to feel good about anything. The country is growing old, people are retiring, our birthrate is at an all-time low and this will put a drag on economic growth going forward. Keep in mind when you look at the average 3.2% post-World War II GDP growth there were years where we had economic growth in the 15% range. We didn't have competition from Asia, Europe and India. Plus we had a very young population.
    In terms of 12.5 million Americans looking for work. Baloney! The frictional or average unemployment rate in the post-World War II years is about 5%. That accounts for over 7 million people. In addition as stated above there are currently close to 4 million job openings. When you factor in the normal unemployment rate and jobs that are available that leaves about 3 to 4,000,000 people that legitimately need work and can't find it. Much of this is in construction as I have also stated above.

    I'm not saying any of this is good or bad. It's just the way it is. Every country in the industrialized world is trying to deal with the headaches of having to care for aging populations.

  28. A bigger concern of mine is not the absolute growth rate in the economy or the current unemployment rate. These things will level out over time. The number of people who are working who also need government assistance to make ends meet is a bigger concern. This country doesn't create high-paying jobs anymore except in a handful of industries. Medical costs, education costs, housing costs in many areas of the country have exploded to the point where upward mobility has become nearly impossible.

    A couple days in the hospital cost more than a house. A good college is $50,000 a year plus, and in some instances homes on the East and West Coast cost millions. Try to be the $50,000 median income family, pay for all of these things and fund retirement.
    I can't wait to see Obama and Romney squirm when they try to explain how to correct these gross imbalances. Half the country can come up with a grand.

  29. We've had the real Obama since he took office, that's why he's getting booted.

  30. Never believe what he says! Obama walks the slippery slope of intentionally misleading the citizens. He does this consistently. Obama is a well oiled mouth of misleading statements. There is no reason to rely on his statements--follow his actions,not his words. Calculating and immature are his actions. Entrenched liberals are tone deaf for the most part. They wallow in the koolaid of Obama, having no alternative to look to in their poliical quest--that's a shame.

  31. Over the last 30 years or so the middle class has been taking a financial pounding, losing income while the fat cats got fatter. Our economy shifted from manufacturing to banking. American manufacturing lost 40,000 plants in 2008 with hundreds of thousands on the unemployment line. At that time the six largest banks controlled 60% of the American economy. Since the election of Obama we've gained a little over 4 million jobs but the "too big to fail" got bigger. Now five American banks controll about 57% of the economy.

    Does anyone else see the economy tanking in the near future leaving the middle class to bail out banking again?

  32. We have to agree to disagree on labor participation. In terms of your 22 million jobless number. It has taken almost 20 years to increase the workforce from 135 to 155 million. I don't know how long it will take to get to 175 million but I doubt I will live to see it. I am 56.
    In terms of the tax on the rich. It's a joke. It wouldn't cover those retiring in the next few days.
    Wealth creation by generating paper is a huge problem. I was involved In years of litigation with Schwab over this issue. 516 trillion in derivatives going out 75 years is causing nothing but problems and severe losses across the board.

  33. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/emps...
    That's where the 4 million comes from.

  34. You can have job creation and at the same time have a shrinking labor force due to demographics. The Japanese people are going extinct. Their labor force is going to shrink over the next several hundred years if they don't start having lots of kids. Yet every year the Japanese industrial machine creates a lot of jobs.

    When the Bureau of Labor Statistics tabulates their data they have many filters that factor in people coming into the labor force, people leaving the labor force, death and other variables. There are a lot of jobs being created but the numbers of people retiring dwarf the job creation.

    With the endless attacks on immigration you're going to see countless job openings in the food sector and no one to fill them because we are all to old to pick lettuce for a few bucks a day.

  35. RefNv, You forgot to include the illegal's

  36. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/lab...
    The above is going to be a massive problem countrywide for people that want affordable food.

  37. John, You wrote this:
    "Mark I have been meaning to ask you. Do you spend your entire day looking down your nose at people or is it just the posters on the Sun and the RJ?"

    Why no John I don't. It is just that most of what people write is either wrong on the facts, context, or banal and boring. Take the back and forth about lying for instance. All humans lie but what the lies are intended to do is the more interesting point. Until you begin to understand that conservatives tend to lie in service to selfish ends that rest on a fantasy of self sufficiency while liberals are more likely to lie to help others the argument is rife with incomprehension.

  38. Ref...nothing you are putting on the board substantiates anything you are saying but great try.
    The Philly Fed does a great deal of work on the employment situation. A report they put out last year states if job creation gets back to pre recession levels it will take nearly 12 years to achieve 5% unemployment if even possible.
    Kudlow was one of the guys tasked by Reagan to deal with future baby boomer retirements. He did a great job. Call him and ask him about his love for Vodka in those days. He is a right wing ideolog and drunk.
    Kudlow was working on the baby boomers when I was working on medical. We both failed miserably.

  39. http://www.nidataplus.com/lfeus1.htm
    Reagan had his share of headaches his first firm. Without multiple wars, aging people and half the country getting assistance.

  40. Jim,
    What is your source for this assertion:
    "The point is that the economy is in worse shape than liberals are willing to admit."
    Given your hyperbole in the past why should readers believe you now?