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Sunday, May 6, 2012 | 2:01 a.m.
We must fire bad teachers. Taxpayers good, teachers bad.
Clark County has some of the largest class sizes in nation, with some of least involved parents and most transient families. Is it safe to assume that if you increase the workload on any employee that at some point that employee’s effectiveness would decline? Can a doctor cure 200 patients in a day? Can a teacher change the lives of 180 students in day?
Are superintendents, school board members, state legislators and voters who allow large class sizes bad people?
Who is accountable for the long-term substitutes in mathematics and science classrooms? Do long-term substitutes qualify as bad teachers? Are adults with degrees in English, substituting in honors chemistry considered bad teachers?
Schools are being judged by how many parents complete online surveys. Bad or busy parents result in schools being judged as bad. We must fire bad parents. Some parents lie to excuse their children’s absences and text their children during class.
We must fire bad students. Private schools fire bad students and private schools are good. Private schools good, public schools bad. What happens to bad students who fail classes, curse at their teachers, do not come to class, refuse to do homework/class work and who disrupt class on a regular basis?
Perhaps bad students should be held accountable for their actions in school as requirements for driver’s licenses and work privileges, since bad parents seem to be so impotent in dealing with their own children.
Some of my students have been accepted to Yale, Stanford, Northwestern, UCLA and many other fine universities this year because they are good students; some of them have good parents and all of them had some good teachers. Congratulations to them and their families and their school.
If the author of this letter is in fact a teacher (where is the disclosure statement?) as implied in the final paragraph, I can only think that his students were accepted into those schools in spite of being in his classroom if he teaches English.
Yes, there are good students and bad students. But it takes good teachers to help good students reach their maximum potential. Mediocre teachers do nothing to help bad students improve, and all too often allow good students to go unchallenged.
Bad teachers are a blight upon the educational landscape and do far more harm to society than is realized.
I will admit that the idea of associating performance in school with getting a drivers license might be worth looking into.
It's not about more money and bigger and better school buildings and classrooms. It's about dedication, commitment, and pride by teachers, school administrators, students and parents. That's what leads to keen learning and academic achievement and ultimately personal and prefessional success.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Jeremy M. Christensen; assuming you are a teacher, each of you have to accept the standing of your profession as a team.
I worked for the Nevada Department of Corrections for over twenty years. Trust when I say these two government run agencies have a lot in common. As a team, both are failures, and for the same reasons.
In corrections, the recidivism rate of criminals is way beyond acceptable levels. In the Clark County School District teaching profession, dropout rates of students are far above standard norms. Overall academic standards of students are way beneath acceptable levels.
Both of our unions have made a mockery out of the step and merit increase system. In the prison system, officers are evaluated as either above standard, standard, or unacceptable. Since when does an employee deserve a step and merit increase when that individual is rated as "standard"? Since when is an employee granted a ninety day must improve to turn around from unacceptable, to temporarily achieve a standard rating? And then, that person is granted both a step and merit increase. Where is the logic in this? I'll tell you exactly where. It's union logic. Its logic that is detrimental to successful progression in both our occupations.
The government agency, in most cases, are handcuffed from terminating the most inept and unproductive employees. Over a period of time this is where the system has failed the tax payers. It has been a consistent downward spiral to have fallen to this pathetic point.
I once addressed the officers' union membership. In a nutshell, here is the summation that I delivered in a speech:
"Many of you officers sit out here today that are fair, firm and consistent in your duties as correction officers. There are those of you who go, "the extra mile" and are a credit and asset to our chosen field. However, there are those who hide behind the protective shield of our union and destroy the team effort. Hence, we are, as a team, labeled as occupational failures. Until we take a stand against these incompetent officers, by decertifying our union, we shall continue, as a team, to wear the label of failure. Until such time, our requests / demands for higher pay and benefits to that of a greater level of peace officer will be denied. We have not earned the right to receive these bonus oriented increases."
Yes, my speech was met with almost universal anger. The same applies right now with the teachers of the Clark County School District.
Mr. Christensen, you can cite all your personal achievements as a teacher. However, you signed on ultimately to be a part of a team operation. You desire to be paid what you are worth? Work to decertify your union. Give your superiors all the necessary tools to dismiss the staff that do not perform or measure up to the expectations that would make the team of teachers an "above standard" group worthy of bonus oriented pay and benefit increases.
I think the point that Jeremy makes with the Black-and-White stark contrasts that he creates by repetitive usage of good/bad in a way reminiscent of Animal Farm is that there truly needs to be some integration of more sensible classification.
His references to the numerous hurdles our students and our schools face present some important back-drop for the challenges we ALL face together - namely the missed opportunities for nurturing that our little ones suffer.
Class size is one effective way to portray the problem that allows us all to picture the likely problems arising from a quantifiable problem, i.e. 50 kids in a classroom designed for 25 and one teacher with hair on fire.
Sure there are lousy teachers, but let's consider a long view. Who among us would CHOOSE to enter a profession that at one time permitted autonomy and offered a sense of purpose in developing mastery within motivated learners but now pays less and less with fewer opportunities for meaningful experiences, less input from concerned and involved parental units and the kind of rotten tomatoes they get from the community at large?
The diminishing status of teachers in Las Vegas is bound to continue for the reasons Jeremy identifies. The failing rates are bound to increase as more and more illegals arrive and expect their free lunches, free books, free iPads, free showers, uniforms and comfy chairs inside the nice new buildings with A/C.
The numbers of "good" teachers walking away from the schoolhouse will likely rise as a result, and no amount of language will change the attitude of illiterate and obstinate detractors who already think teachers should not be paid more than babysitters, that they should get 'real' jobs and should contribute something to our culture, like working as a bar maid after they teach all day, spend an extra hour at an IEP meeting, grade papers, do prep work and meet with their clubs.
By starting at the reasonable and logical beginning point, I am convinced that childbirth should come with strings attached. And some would go further down that road, maintaining that even before SEX is permitted, one must have credentials based on genetic make-up, literacy, logic, demeanor and personality, for starters. There is wisdom in that line of thinking, but I suspect the push-back would be overwhelming, especially in Vegas. So my middle-ground of 'birth-born strings' is a logical path.
Parents will raise children or be incarcerated to work for society in other ways. the children will be handed over to the would-have-been parents who PASS all the requirements in the previous paragraph.
There you have it Las Vegas... have your sex and your fun and your babies, but once you do...remember that they'll be snatched away from you if and when they screw up. The ONE FUKKUP RULE is in effect. No cheating, no swearing, no guns at school, no failed exams, no missed PTA meetings, etc.
Problem solved. Good teachers, good students, good parents. POOF!
airweare,
I am somewhat surprised by your post.
Granted that the author's use of "Animal Farm" imagery was entertaining, his placing of blame outside the school system is not entirely warranted.
There are too many teachers (some of whom post on this site) who are quick to blame students and parents for their (the teacher's) shortcomings in their profession. Although it is a legitimate complaint that too many parents fail to encourage their children to learn, it is *still* the teacher's job and duty to step up and teach that ultimate lesson.
As I said in my earlier post, good students need good teachers to reach their full potential. A mediocre, or worse, a bad teacher, harms these students just as much as they harm poor students, possibly even more (but I am reluctant to make that argument.) It is teachers who must bear the ultimate accountability for ensuring that every student is given as many tools as they can receive for entering life as a productive member of society.
Yes, there are some children who simply can't or won't learn those lessons, but that does not remove a teacher's responsibility to give those children the best possible chance to do so.
Commenter Carmine A. DiFazio, distilled accountability in the following,"It's not about more money and bigger and better school buildings and classrooms. It's about dedication, commitment, and pride by teachers, school administrators, students and parents. That's what leads to keen learning and academic achievement and ultimately personal and prefessional success."
No matter how we evaluate it, it still takes a village, that fierce teamwork, and energy towards success. When we talk about evaluating teachers, support staff, and administrators, one thing that has been sadly lacking are links that disclose the actual forms used to evaluate each school employee. Perhaps the Las Vegas Sun can gather those forms and make links so that their readers will become better informed in which to make decisions and have discussions that can be even more constructive. Since the Nevada State Legislature saw to it that evaluations are part of the employment equation, and the school district has recreated evaluation forms, let the taxpayer KNOW what these forms consist, please.
If we have objectives and goals that are criteria for determining who is or not is a worthy employee, WE ALL should know what these standards are. You think? On the new evaluation forms, only ONE item ranked involvement and interaction with parents and community. A few evaluation items dealt with teachers following best practices in their classrooms. Much of the rest dealt with teachers paying to go, on their own time, to a university, completing coursework on improving student/school performance, testing, data analysis, bullying, etc., and PRESENTING IT to their colleagues during staff developments and or staff meetings. Many schools missed a performance star due to the lack of parents completing the survey. Who is held accountable over these evaluations and forms ultimately?
It is time for disclosure, to not only be FAIR, but so taxpayers and families with children in our community's schools better understand the current process.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
Are there some bad teachers? Yes
Are there many more unmotivated students? Absolutely!
Have many parents abdicated their responsibility for their children? Yes, unfortunately.
All these elements meet at our schools. It isn't fair to dump responsibility for all the ills of our society on teachers and assume if they can't cure them all, they are incompetent. We can only achieve good outcomes when we all share responsibility and carry it out. Private schools achieve better results because they expel the student if they don't get cooperation from both students and parents. Public schools don't have that luxury.
boftx, I write with tongue in cheek perhaps too much during bird hour.
Your point is clear that teachers need to buckle down and inspire, lead, instruct, guide, observe independent practice, check for understanding and review.
Their jobs require something that is difficult to find these days especially in these parts of the wasteland, namely motivation in the face of reduced or completely absent participation by other cultural bodies contributing to the load but not carrying their part, i.e. parents of illegals, administration leveling accusation while not supporting staff, community members with axes to grind and rotten tomatoes in hand waiting for their best shot to take.
As you probably surmise, I walked away from the schoolhouse scene into self-employment performing other important work. The reasons for my leaving are many of these obstacles. I am well up into my 60s now with still stretchy skin, a drive to realize some more of the good things in life and a beautiful new girlfriend, a once-retired architect of my age group with whom I have fabulous conversations even though she travels the world for a living and has homes on several continents and obligations to our little group providing deep retrofits and solar upgrades in foreclosed homes, mostly on the east coast now.
My interest in the K-12 system in Nevada is not the most important stew on my stove, but i do enjoy blabbing about it, nearly as much as I would enjoy sitting down with you and yours and slicing into some wood-fired steaks and chatting up a storm in conviviality and shared respect for perspectives I enjoy.
Please pardon my previous post as an attempt to add some levity to the discussion in my failed effort to Jonathan Swift the discussion with a simple suggestion that wanted to emulate sarcasm of the ages with a completely unacceptable - even un-palatable- version of a better way.
Getting out of the doom of the schools in Clark County looks to be hopeless slog from my perspective - too many anti-learning forces to even broach the subject of improving the lot of the children. In short, the problem is that the entire community ethic and culture lack the value of education. Nothing anyone can do will change the way it is.
God, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
I like what I do now, and I enjoy it. I'm old and my wiggling days are numbered. Pleae don't blame me for what I can not even affect. I tried. Now I play at work, enjoy every day and love life her own self. You'd want that for your family, I know.
lets just educate the rich kids and turn the poor out on streets with no ability to make a living except as a shrapnel or bullet catcher in trumped up wars. There's no jobs anyway.
Well stated, Boftx: "It is teachers who must bear the ultimate accountability for ensuring that every student is given as many tools as they can receive for entering life as a productive member of society."
Our teachers must assume that there is NO ONE in that child's life to be supportive and nurturing. Each and every child that enters a teacher's classroom must receive instruction, direction, practice, and unfeigned care towards not only academic preparedness and success, but social skills and tools that will carry them into adulthood. Appropriate behaviors and manners are part of a person's ability to be successful in life. Depending on the reenforcement 'culture' that surrounds a student/child, you will witness varying degrees of motivation and realized success.
It is not enough to teach grade level curriculum; imbedded within subject content are above grade level gems that hint of the future grades and demands. Those who are able do glean these gems, excelling even further, confident and excited that they can meet upcoming academic challenges. Such students are motivated to keep moving on and forward. They will tackle just about anything you put before them! Absolutely exciting and contagious!!!!
Admidst the school learning environment are the distractions that both teachers and motivated students (based on actual experiences) are subjected to: students who engage in bullying, destruction of property, sexual harassment, even threats of carrying weapons to school and the occassional parent dropping in. All this takes AWAY from a productive learning environment. A teacher can have the best prepared lessons, yet, when negative distractions are the rule rather than the rare instance, we have to question why this is and find ways to fix it.
There are not enough words of praise and thanks to our school's PTAs, those loving and dedicated family and community members who show their support in a million of appreciated ways. Effective PTAs see where there is a need and do their best to fill it. They are NOT paid, but graciously and kindly devote their time and energies towards improving the climate and culture at a school. Schools begin to suffer when it lacks the outside support from those volunteering through school PTAs, and general classroom and school volunteerism. Students truly feel that support. A huge "Thank You!" goes to those who are actively involved with supporting our children at the schools!
Blessings and Peace,
Star
"Ready by Exit." Catchy isn't it? That sums up the modus operandi that Mr. Jones presented and hailed by the board and the public. If the student is not ready, the teacher gets the blame, and the teacher is fired. Logical? Perhaps. Smart? NO! Like many 'education reforms' floated around by these so called 'reformists,' it is myopic and set up for failure. These reforms are palliative and do not work! We have been doing the same things all these decades and we are sinking instead of getting out of the 'malodorous hole.'
To 'support' this push, a Kindergarten teacher proposed her own brand of reform by coining the phrase "Ready by Entry." That, I think is smarter than the superintendent's "Ready by Exit." That is brilliant!
By age three, a child's brain should already be (let me use an analogy) like a modern highway system with all the roads and freeways connected for easy access to wherever a car wants to go. Consider the car as the skill/lesson being taught at school. If the freeways are present, that car will zippy-de-do-da through wherever it needs to go and get there fast or at least on time, barring traffic congestions (information overload). A child, who does not have those freeways, takes a very long time to learn, just as a car would if it takes surface streets. Guess what. A 5-year old going to Kindergarten, without those freeways, already lost 5 years of building and that's what the Kindergarten teacher needs to do -- TO CATCH HIM UP, in addition to regular Kindergarten curriculum. Now, imagine 30 or 40 of them in a Kindergarten classroom for 2 hours and a half in 9 months. Then whatever roads were built in Kindergarten, without maintenance and repair during the summer months, disintegrate before they even go to First Grade.
There will be those who will fall in the proverbial cracks. They go on to higher grades with nary a road available for information to travel or to traverse to get to where they need to go. They play catch up at every grade and some of them simply give up and drop out of school.
Instead of spending billions of dollars giving these children fancy 'cars,' perhaps we should spend some of that money in building roads for 3-5-year olds and maintaining 'roads' for those older so they can finally use the 'cars' to 'exit' the 'malodorous hole.'
And that my BOFTX is why teachers deserve a better salary for working two jobs -- that of a parent (for 30 children) and that of a teacher; in addition to working in a place where we are told what to do without any say but to do what we are told to do.
"Getting out of the doom of the schools in Clark County looks to be hopeless slog from my perspective - too many anti-learning forces to even broach the subject of improving the lot of the children. In short, the problem is that the entire community ethic and culture lack the value of education. Nothing anyone can do will change the way it is."
Joe Lamy - I have to agree. I have lived in seven other western States besides Nevada and none come close to puting less value on and commitment to education than Nevada (or at least Clark County).
"What happens to bad students who fail classes, curse at their teachers, do not come to class, refuse to do homework/class work and who disrupt class on a regular basis?"
This is the reason for me to want to leave the teaching profession. It isn't the money, it is the fact that teachers have to deal with the above. Students fail because they refuse to work, is that my fault? The are allowed to curse at teachers, with parents backing them up. Students disrupt class on a regular basis with no consequences, making the learning environment virtually impossible for ALL students. That isn't classroom management, that is disrespectful students with, again, parents who back them up. It's difficult to be blamed constantly for what I cannot control. I don't care about the money, it is what it is, but being stressed and disrespected on a daily basis can get rough for teachers who truly care about teaching today's future.
Sounds like a good idea but the unions or system will never allow firing stupidity. The system has enabled anyone regardless of their knowledge or abilities to remain in their system; they call it tolerance of one's inabilities. They will get their playbook designed by a group where they came to unanimous vote where all nationalizes are appeased and politically correct. Parents are then taught not be a helicopter or Hitler parent and let the system teaching their kids. If the kid isn't learning, the kid must have ADD or some other ailment where they're given pills to cure the infamous excuses made.
Bottom line, remove the liberal agenda and the system and let parents and teachers teach the kids. Take away the toys and hold kids accountable for their choices and make them do their homework before toy time. Give them chores to do daily or lose the toys. Simply have boundaries that are enforced by all and kids will learn and stop making lame excuses for them.
Put trades back in school, woodshop, auto shop, FFA, AG, and all the crafts that America was founded upon and stop cramming down their throats that hard work isn't good. What they fail to realize is not all kids want college degrees and they don't need college degrees, trade people today and earn upwards of $150,000.00 annually if they're good and become self employed in their trade. Yet the system tells them, no. And you continue to vote these idiots into office and teachers claim to be teachers, then teach and stop succumbing to stupidity.
<<Bottom line, remove the liberal agenda and the system and let parents and teachers teach the kids. Take away the toys and hold kids accountable for their choices and make them do their homework before toy time. Give them chores to do daily or lose the toys. Simply have boundaries that are enforced by all and kids will learn and stop making lame excuses for them.>>
Nothing like broad brush strokes, Tim. My liberal agenda does exactly what you just stated above and my kid is excelling in school. Shocker.
I do agree with putting trades back in school. Not everyone is made for college. What that has to do with unions is beyond me. Unions don't have anything to do with setting the curriculum and the standards that are expected in the schools.
Who's to say, when kids either drop-out or graduate and are STILL as dumb as a box of rocks, who's to say that the teacher DIDN'T do his/her job of teaching?? How does one assess that statistic? I will stand firm in my belief that if the parents would PARENT their children and take away all the toys - beginning with their 'smart phone' (ironic, huh?)...If parents paid attention to what their little darlings were doing then the majority of the kids would stay in school and graduate. Now mind you, not all, probably not even many, will be rocket scientists but most would at least have a fighting chance of earning a minimal middle class, blue collar job. Teachers can and teachers DO teach - they put forth way more effort than both the parent and the child combined... and still they are constantly being blamed for the stupidity of this generation of ner'do wells.
This press release was sent to all CCSD employees on May 4th. https://interact.ccsd.net/Login/FAV1-001...
This is a link to the pay scale for teachers for 2007-2008. http://www.nctq.org/docs/6-07_6890.pdf
This is the link for the pay scale for teachers for 2008-2009. http://www.nctq.org/docs/6-08_6933.pdf
This is the link for the pay scale for teachers for 2009-2010 http://www.nctq.org/docs/6-07.pdf
This is the link for the pay scale for teachers for 2010-2011. http://ccsd.net/employees/resources/pdf/...
This is the link for the pay scale for teachers for 2011-2012. http://www.nctq.org/docs/Clark_County_10...
The pay for teachers was increased from 2007-2008 to 2008 -2009 school years. Since 2008-2009 to now, the pay scale has not changed. The only increases for teachers were movement either down the scale for time with the district, but for many teachers that didn't happen due to reaching the maximum experience for their pay class. For teachers with a bachelors degree that happens after 5 years, and with teachers with a masters degree after 9 years with the district. The only other way for teachers to move on the salary schedule was to move from class to class which required additional education which was paid for by the teacher. CCSD did NOT offer any raises or changes in the basic salary schedule. The CCSD claim to be giving raises is only based on teachers moving either horizontally or vertically on the pay scale, not by CCSD changing the pay scale.
Tanker, your first link leads to InterAct. Here's the text of that press release sent to teachers:
CLARK COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT
NEWS RELEASE
May 4, 2012
Frequently Asked Questions
A factual look at funds, positions and raises at CCSD
Q: Does the District have $70 million in extra money it could use to balance the budget?
A: No. There is no extra money in our budget. On the contrary, the Clark County School District is struggling to fill a $64 million budget deficit. The funds we do have are accounted for. If a family has $2,000 in their bank account but has not paid their rent and bills, it's not accurate to say they have $2,000 in extra money sitting around. "The funds we do have are accounted for and are needed to cover expenses through the remainder of the school year."
Q: Why is the District posting teaching positions online?
A: CCSD is currently in "transfer season." This means our current teachers have the opportunity to view and apply for positions that are open to replace teachers who are either retiring or resigning.
FACT: Even with retirements, resignations and the elimination of specialized positions, we would not have a balanced budget due to the arbitrator's ruling.
Second part of press release:
Q: What are the new 'learning coach' positions posted online?
A: Learning coach positions are educators who will provide specialized instructional support and assistance in mathematics and literacy. The K--5 Instructional Coach Project Facilitator position will be assigned to schools as needed by the District. These positions are fully funded by federal Title I or Title II funds and do not impact our General Fund budget.
Q: Does the District financially benefit from the additional education that teachers have pursued?
A: Because the District does not run the educational program(s) teachers use to obtain raises, the District does not make a profit from any courses teachers sign up for. The Clark County Education Association, however, does profit from teachers who further their educations taking classes with the Center for Teaching Excellence, the organization that provides courses that allow teachers to advance on the salary scale.
Q: Why is the District traveling around the country to recruit new teachers?
A: The District is actively recruiting new teachers to fill vacancies caused by retirements or resignations in hard to fill areas such as math, science and special education. It is our responsibility to ensure the best teachers in the nation have the opportunity to compete for positions in our classrooms.
Q: Does CCSD have more teachers this year than last?
A: No. In 2010-11, CCSD had 18,010 teachers. CCSD currently has 17,555 teachers for the 2011-12 school year.
Q: I've been hearing that teachers haven't had a raise in several years. Is this true?
A: No. In 2007 and 2008, teachers received a step increase. Step increases are increases given to employees for staying in the District another year. Teachers also received a four percent cost of living increase in addition to the step increase for the same 2007-2008 period. For the past four years, from 2007-2011, teachers also received yearly increases for furthering their own education. Those increases were given in addition to the cost of living and step increases.
As Tanker has shown, the very last sentence is a lie because teachers did not receive any cost of living increases. Also, as Tanker pointed out, only some teachers received step increases for the reasons he gave, so not ALL teachers received any increases in the past several years.
Why does Jones lie about something that is so easily proven?
"Nothing like broad brush strokes, Tim. My liberal agenda does exactly what you just stated above and my kid is excelling in school. Shocker."
Shocker for me, yes. You are few and far between in the big picture. In reality the liberal agenda that has infested the educational system that for the most part does not produce educated kids that are ready when they enter into adulthood or the work environment.
This isn't just an Obama thing; politicians on all sides of the isle have succumbed to liberal way of thinking when it comes to education and none of them are willing to accept what's smacking America upside the head, it isn't working and no amount of money can fix stupid. They've been trying it for years and it isn't working. Kids simply need earned consequences with boundaries and when these are enforced, kids will learn. We don't need to teach them appeasement or excuses or that it's okay to break the laws, we need to educate them, all of them and hold everyone to a higher standard. This isn't occurring and won't occur until we eradicate the liberal system and go back to a proven and tried system.
"A: No. There is no extra money in our budget. On the contrary, the Clark County School District is struggling to fill a $64 million budget deficit. The funds we do have are accounted for. If a family has $2,000 in their bank account but has not paid their rent and bills, it's not accurate to say they have $2,000 in extra money sitting around. "The funds we do have are accounted for and are needed to cover expenses through the remainder of the school year."
They've trained people to think their budget is right. Only in the public sector does a budget grow every year and they must spend it all or their budget is reduced the following year. Their shortfall as they put it isn't a shortfall, they're bloated and need to cut their budget and get rid of the fat. The indirects they've fattened up is a waste of our money and need to stop appeasing everyone who is sucking off the budget and get back to basics.
Wait a minute. Tanker1975 stated the other day that:
"I make a child rush home to share the first book they're ready without a grown-ups help.
I make a child look at the world and wonder why things are the way they are, and how things work.
I make a child put away their cell phone and Ipod and write a paragraph with proper spelling and punctuation.
I make a child understand the patterns in math, and how they don't change.
I make a child understand why we study history and more importantly how to try to not repeat it.
I make a child understand that they have value and their opinion matters, and how to express that opinion correctly.
I make a child understand that they can be successful in life and how to do that.
The link is below. The discussion topic was "Teacher pays for advanced education only to face possible pay cut".
If teachers can do all these things then why aren't they doing this for each child? Teachers state how wonderful they are when discussing teacher pay but then play the blame game when it's time to review test scores and graduation rates. What's with all this talking, bragging and blaming?
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/apr...
<<Shocker for me, yes. You are few and far between in the big picture. In reality the liberal agenda that has infested the educational system that for the most part does not produce educated kids that are ready when they enter into adulthood or the work environment.>>
Makes me wonder, Tim, just what "liberals" you know. Every single liberal I know, and it's a lot, do the same thing with their kids as I do with mine. They are well-behaved, have consequences, and are expected to do well in school.
<<Kids simply need earned consequences with boundaries and when these are enforced, kids will learn. We don't need to teach them appeasement or excuses or that it's okay to break the laws, we need to educate them, all of them and hold everyone to a higher standard. This isn't occurring and won't occur until we eradicate the liberal system and go back to a proven and tried system.>>
Those particular values are learned at home. Teachers don't do "appeasement, or excuses or that it's okay to break the laws." That's ridiculous...and those certainly aren't "liberal values."
As to the funds that Jones says are "accounted for," I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know just what those funds are set aside for. Reporters should be asking this question of Jones and not leave him alone until he answers it.
Tim, good parenting is not a liberal or conservative thing.
In defense of Mr. Jones, may I say that as the topmost person in an organization, you do not 'get your hands dirty' and you depend on people working for you. What is being fed to him is what he says and decides.
For example: The last sentence that Shannon was asking. Why would he do that? Indeed?
Another one: People under him recommend creation of various positions to 'increase district efficiency.' These recommendations are supported by documentations of studies and research that indeed it is necessary to create those positions. Jones himself cannot possibly do the studies himself, so he approves them. He then presents it to the board, who themselves would not have any clue whether or not those positions are necessary. There could be alternatives such as using existing positions/personnel to do the job. Or, deleting redundant jobs and positions. After all, there is no money and layoffs are imminent, as they claim. But... the top bosses know these people who send these recommendations - well, the boss has to trust their subordinates, right? They are all buddies. Recommendations approved! This goes for all other decisions in the district: Change orders for construction defects, any and all purchases, hiring of consultants, school materials and services, etc.
We all know how much we as executives want bigger offices and bigger staff to make us feel important. Visit any administrative office and you will find people doing practically nothing. They even have answering machines to take calls for them. Meanwhile teachers have 30 to 40 students in their classroom.
What is lacking is a clear VISION that is explicitly communicated and understood. All decisions that are to be made must be juxtaposed to that vision. If it does not fit, then it must be scraped. I am sure Mr. Jones has a vision of what he wants to do with the district. The problem is a vision that is not communicated and understood clearly is the same as not having a vision at all.
Those under him seem not to know that there is NO MONEY to fund new positions and fancy equipment.
OR, MAYBE there IS money, but NOT for teachers and students.
"If teachers can do all these things then why aren't they doing this for each child? Teachers state how wonderful they are when discussing teacher pay but then play the blame game when it's time to review test scores and graduation rates. What's with all this talking, bragging and blaming?"
Mr. Freeman:
Why is it so difficult to understand? There are good teachers and there are bad teachers!
Do all doctors cure all patients? Do all policemen catch ALL bad men? Do all lawyers defend all clients to be not guilty?
Come one now! Those people handle one patient/client at a time! The symptoms are clear and the medications are there. There are various tests that doctors give and they try many forms of medications until they get the right one. Policemen and lawyers have a cadre of support to do detective work and investigations. And, they have all the time they need!
We only have ourselves and 30 children. We do our best in the short time we have them, but like a patient, they have to 'TAKE THE MEDICATION!' Or their parents must make them take it and they must come to school to get it! The community must also make sure that there is enough 'medication' available. Guess what, in schools, we are told what 'medications' to give and what 'tests' to use, but when the child does not get better, WE ARE BLAMED, like what you are doing now.
As I said, there are bad teachers and there are good teachers. The way the district and the public are treating teachers, you may not even have good teachers left in a few years.
If you want to improve education, STOP blaming just teachers! Include the legislature, the governor, the board, the administrators, the powers-that-be! Blaming only teachers is a defense of those without the necessary cognitive capacity to analyze or the guts to tell the truth.
"Those particular values are learned at home. Teachers don't do "appeasement, or excuses or that it's okay to break the laws." That's ridiculous...and those certainly aren't "liberal values."..."
I beg to differ, the liberal agenda is to teach kids making excuses for their shortcoming is okay and it's someone else's or something in their life made them do it, breaking the law is okay; they've taught kids it okay to be in America illegally, they've taught kids it's okay smoke marijuana, they've taught kids that same sex marriage is okay, they've taught kids not to be accountable and that they're owed everything by those work make more money than others, and many other sick repugnant progressive movements that liberals cram down their throats.
Bottom line, until the liberal movement is removed from the educational system, no amount of money will educate the masses how to become responsible self supporting adults. There is a few that will come out okay but for the masses, look at what's occurred and look at what's been produced, it's not working and it isn't about money or the opulence of buildings, it's about educating and teaching kids. Go to any store, buy something with cash, tell the clerk, keep the change if they can count it back in 10 seconds without the use of a machine, they can't.
There is much more but this isn't the forum to fix a system that is broken and the highly paid people who are supposed to be helping are in reality too stupid to fix it because they don't have the guts or the balls to change what is smacking America upside the head, they want a paycheck nothing more, nothing less and they'll continue to beat to the same drum beat and the sheep follow.
Good parenting isn't either; kids just know that all they have to do cry foul and the system instantly intervenes and sticks their nose where it doesn't belong. I'm not talking about abusers or bad crap like that; I've heard it all from young adults and the crap they've learned. What I think is being forgot about is that kids enter the work environment and we're having to deal with them. They've learned it somewhere, though it is the parents job to teach right from wrong, it's also educational system that is to blame and well.
Tim: Regarding your "liberal agenda," the only thing that I think you may have a point about is same-sex marriage (or children with parents of the same sex, something that teachers actually have to deal with). Teachers don't state that marijuana is a-okay or discuss the "morality" of same-sex relationships, they don't berate undocumented students (if a teacher even knows what the status of a student is...not something that most teachers know unless the student him/herself tells the teacher) for being in the country illegally. Where are you getting that students aren't being held accountable by teachers? Teachers give students the grades they earned. If they are moved along, that's not the teacher's fault. The final couple of sentences in your paragraph are not even worth addressing. Sounds like RWNJ craziness.
It is about what kids are taught; it isn't all about what teachers teach. Teachers though do put their personal morals and believes into their style of teaching. What society fails to understand is that kids aren't dumb, they also learn by example and what is taught to them as a whole. When I use laws are being broken and not enforced, it teaches kids, its okay to break the law.
Teachers work from curriculum provided by the board or some committee, this is where the primary responsibility starts with the school system. It is their system that is liberal biased and it is messed up. Teachers complain about not being paid enough and all the other issues they deal with, it's broken and it's been broken for 25 years, yet teachers still want to work that system. Until they speak up and fix from within and stop succumbing to the liberal agenda of the board members and their thirst, it's not going to get any better, it's only going to get worse.
No, I am not a right winged nut job. I just happen to call it like I see it and I don't believe or support most of the liberal agenda and I don't support any of their sick immoral agenda. When liberals get back to basics and see one American, one America, stop their madness and when they start to practice what they preach, I might see the liberal party differently.
<<Teachers though do put their personal morals and believes into their style of teaching.>>
If by "personal morals" you mean work to the best of your abilities and treat everyone people with respect, then, yes, teachers are guilty of that.
><<When I use laws are being broken and not enforced, it teaches kids, its okay to break the law.>>
Please explain. I can't think of one single instance where teachers teach that this okay.
<<It is their system that is liberal biased and it is messed up.>>
In what way is the system "liberal biased" and what exactly do you mean by "liberal biased"?
<<Until they speak up and fix from within and stop succumbing to the liberal agenda of the board members and their thirst, it's not going to get any better, it's only going to get worse.>>
Teachers are not going to rock the boat with the people who can fire them or otherwise make their lives a living hell. That needs to come from the parents and society in general.
<<No, I am not a right winged nut job. I just happen to call it like I see it and I don't believe or support most of the liberal agenda and I don't support any of their sick immoral agenda. When liberals get back to basics and see one American, one America, stop their madness and when they start to practice what they preach, I might see the liberal party differently.>>
You keep talking about the "liberal agenda." It would be helpful if you'd define what you mean by that, specifically, because, as a liberal, I must have missed the memo that was sent out.
Tim,
We all know what liberal means. liberals want a socialist America and hate business, religion and capitalism.
I have a number of seniors who should graduate in June. They have passed all of the proficiency tests, they just need to pass the classes they are taking right now. I have a number of students who have not turned in 10 or more assignments. I talk to them every day about their missing work. I have sent progress reports to counselors to have them talk to the students. I have called home, but have yet to see the missing work. Unless the work is turned in, the students will fail and not graduate. Please tell me how that is my fault? Would you want this student working for you?
Author, what is your point? You really didn't make one. You state mostly obvious facts. And you are a teacher?
"Do all doctors cure all patients? Do all policemen catch ALL bad men? Do all lawyers defend all clients to be not guilty?"
Nancy, tell that to Tanker1975. When he states the following he doesn't even mention that he doesn't succeed at making each student achieve the following:
"I make a child rush home to share the first book they're ready without a grown-ups help.
I make a child look at the world and wonder why things are the way they are, and how things work.
I make a child put away their cell phone and Ipod and write a paragraph with proper spelling and punctuation.
I make a child understand the patterns in math, and how they don't change.
I make a child understand why we study history and more importantly how to try to not repeat it.
I make a child understand that they have value and their opinion matters, and how to express that opinion correctly.
I make a child understand that they can be successful in life and how to do that."
At best, he gives an inaccurate picture of what he accomplishes. If a sprinter during the Olympics this summer is asked "how did you perform?", perhaps he should reply "I ran the 100 meters in 10.3 seconds". Yes, but did he win the race? Out of 35 students in class, did Tanker1975's students learn? The word "make" used over and over makes it sound as though he accomplished teaching every student but in fact he didn't.
Teachers need to stop with the dramatic answers and be truthful. And stop with the logically absurd consequences like you gave the other day when you stated:
"You don't have to go to school. Be a drug dealer and you will make bank. You don't have to go to college. Just work in the entertainment industry. Heck a stripper can make hundreds of thousands. Rob a bank! Go to someone's house and steal their money and jewelry. Pretend to be a financial whiz and steal millions, even billions from your clients. Lie to people - become a politician and enrich yourself. Be a lobbyist. When you get a lot of money, be a corporate raider and make even more money."
Again, this is absurd.
Mr. Freeman:
I have already addressed the same arguments. If you do not understand, there is nothing more I can do about it.
My best advice is: Be a teacher for at least a year or two. Then perhaps you will understand what I am talking about.
Meanwhile. Enjoy your brand of truth.
Thank you.
Nancy,
I agree, you don't have the right answers. Higher teacher pay means higher taxes for tax payers yet we can't/shouldn't expect a higher level of performance from teachers year-over-year. You teachers have a nice racket. Have one customer, use union coffers to elect state/local government representatives who will pay teachers higher wages/pensions for 10 months of work then tell the citizenry about how great y'all are when your pay gets discussed then play the blame game when discussing student test scores and graduation rates. What a scam.
@RefNV. You left out the first and last part of the quote. The first part was what does a teacher make. The last part was that's what a teacher makes, what do you make. I was talking about teachers in general, not a specific teacher.
If you think what teachers do is easy, do my job for a week. Then, maybe, you can make an informed decision.
When the graduation rate hovers at 50%, that tells me you have half of your classes filled with kids who don't care to learn, don't want to learn and most likely will be a disruptive force within the classroom. How can ANY teacher conduct their job in the classroom with that mentality amongst half the students? I don't care how good the teacher, he/she will not be able to teach properly.
You've got too many disinterested parents in this city...hence disinterested students. You want to see how education is conducted properly. Go to just about any place in the country where the parents make sure their kid is there to learn.
It begins and ends with parental responsibility at the forefront. Everything else folows that. I don't care what you pay teachers. $300,000/year? If you have disinterested parents, you'll get a drop out kid. Even the best teachers in the world can't overcome a classroom with up to half of the students looking for the exit door before they sit down.
"If you think what teachers do is easy, do my job for a week. Then, maybe, you can make an informed decision."
My GF was a teacher and is now a school administrator. I've been to plenty of her classes. Try another lame and meaningless line Tanker1975.
@Tanker... your post at 6:58 hits the nail on the head. The old adage "You can lead a horse....." We all know the rest and it never rang as true as in this case of kids and parents who simply do not give a crap when it comes to education.
@RefNV. There is a big difference between being in a classroom, and teaching a classroom. Did you write the lesson plans, did you present the instruction, did you grade the work, and post the grades to easy grade pro? If you didn't, then you didn't do a teacher's job. You sat and watched a teacher. Big difference.
Tanker1975,
Sorry, I don't buy your attempt to disqualify others from explaining how teachers bark for more pay then play the blame game when it comes to getting results. Las Vegan tax payers are getting the shaft.
As I looked at the slide presentation that was given on April 11th to the board on the 2012-2013 something didn't add up. The budget presentation said approximately 25000 FTE positions at a cost of 1,780,000,000. This is the link to that presentation. http://www.boarddocs.com/nv/ccsdlv/Board.........
Let's assume for the sake of argument that the 2012-2013 budget project approximately 17500 teachers at a cost of 1,000,000,000. That leaves a balance of approximately 7,500 positions for support staff, CCSD police and administrators at a cost of 780,000,000. Just dividing the two numbers means that the remaining 7500 people earn an average of 100,000+ each. We know that support staff probably makes up at least half of that 7500, so that begs the question as to who are the rest and how much do they get paid.
As much as it pains me to say it, I then went to the Transparent Nevada site for Clark County School District salaries for 2011. What I found was surprising to say the least. The salaries are listed in decreasing order from highest paid, Jones, to lowest paid, all 2125 pages of them with approximately 50 names on each page. As I paged through the list, it took UNTIL PAGE 37 for the page to show a majority of teachers. That is a list containing approximately 1850 names. The lowest salary at the bottom of page 37 was approximately 102,800. Even being conservative, that means that there are approximately 1400-1500 administrators making well over 100,000 working for CCSD in 2011. This is the link to that site. http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/cl.........
There are 360 schools in CCSD and figuring an average of two administrators per school, that only comes to 720. Where are the rest of the administrators working? Has anybody seen a chart or table that shows the organization, and more importantly the staffing of performance zones and areas? Has anybody seen a listing of the duties and responsibilities of the performance zones and areas?