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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 | 2:01 a.m.
America and being an American carries with it unique and very definite meanings for me.
This is very important to me, and conveying the meaning of American values is an immensely vital act in my opinion.
To my way of thinking, there are three essential principle American values. Any actions or behaviors that reinforce and perpetuate the adherence to these values amounts to virtuous behavior. To the contrary, those actions and behaviors that tend to undermine these values are destructive to America and its integrity as a nation and is unvirtuous behavior.
These are the traditional values to which I refer:
• Liberty: the freedom to pursue one’s hopes and dreams without undue interference from one’s government and fellows.
• In God We Trust: The notion and belief that an almighty power is the foundation and guiding force for the nation.
• E pluribus unum: meaning “out of the many, one.”
There is a ferocious political and cultural struggle going on that centers on both undercutting these values on the one hand and protecting and perpetuating them on the other.
This is essentially a struggle between those who may be called leftists and those who are devoted to protecting these values. I call the latter traditionalists.
Any action to strip away wealth/property from one person and redistribute it to another tramples on the liberty of the individual from whom the wealth/property has been taken. The class warfare politics that are so prevalent today would be considered unvirtuous.
Next, those actions designed to remove God from the public square undermine traditional American values.
Finally, any action designed to split the cultural dynamics of America, such as multiculturalism, would be viewed as unvirtuous.
The left seems determined to challenge and undermine these traditional values across the spectrum of our society.
God Bless America and long may She live.
CarmineD
Comment removed by moderator. - -
It is apparent that Bob Jack feels strongly about these American values.
In many ways I guess I consider myself a "leftist", but I don't see that as unvirtuous. Bob and I differ greatly on what constitutes "undue interference". I favour much more government involvement than he does, but I don't see either his view or mine as being right or wrong.
As far as believing in an almighty power who guides the nation, my own personal faith has over the course of my lifetime waxed and waned, and coincidentally at this moment is relatively non-existent. Consequently I'm uncomfortable with ramming God down everyone's throats in society, especially given that so many people in 2012 have no faith or belief whatsoever.
Multiculturalism is also neither right nor wrong. Here in Canada we're experimenting with it, and certainly there are growing pains, but it's unlikely we can reverse the process.
One of the most wonderful things about America (and Canada) is that people like Bob Jack and I can disagree on such basic issues but not go to war over it.
Happy 236th birthday, United States of America.
FromBellevilleCanada (Don Desaulniers)
This letter reeks with so much RIGHTeousness that it's almost nauseating.
"Any action to strip away wealth/property from one person and redistribute it to another tramples on the liberty of the individual from whom the wealth/property has been taken."
I assume this would also apply if the person being stripped was less wealthy than the person doing the stripping, although I don't believe that's the writers concern. It is more indicative of what we've observed in the past ten years or so.
If we want to wrap ourselves with the flag of "In God We Trust", lets ask ourselves "What would Jesus do?" As I recall, He had some issues with the Money Changers. I also remember His concern about curing the sick. He did so without asking what their copay was or if they had insurance at all. Are Creators opposed to "multiculturism"?
"Next, those actions designed to remove God from the public square undermine traditional American values".
I would submit that following the Ten Commandments in the public square has more value than posting them there. Definitely needs some work.
We can carry on the pretense of fighting over traditional values, but the real fight is about values measured in dollars.
On my way to church, when I was much younger, I would walk past other houses of worship. That exposure to other religions taught me tolerance and to accept and understand others without being prejudice or biased.
Apparently Bob Jack has no room in his America for those who think differently or disagree with him. Diversity and multi cultural input is what made this a great nation. There is no such animal as traditional values other than to be treated as an equal and treat other accordingly. We are a nation of immigrants, period.
The trouble with calling one's self a traditionalist is that in fact your corporatist identity is absolutely un-American from almost every conceivable perspective.
Back when our founders started in on this experiment in self-rule, the 1%-ers of the day earned about 9% of the income. Today, Bob, these puppets of international corporate interests bring home almost 25% of the gross.
The ecological consequences of massive and rampant activities that support disinterested 'takers' of resources is sort of like a legalized rape of the planet to give the most powerful the best things in life at the expense of the lives and potential for sustainability for the masses who happen also to inhabit this place.
What you are calling traditionalists are essentially the Simon LaGrees, enslaving and destroying. They are the aloof and arrogant, the back-stabbing and betraying, the callous and calculating, the deceitful, dishonest, disrespectful piullagers of the global villagers. In this regard, you are absolutely accurate in attributing to them the term 'traditionalists'
But they are un-American in several respects. Most Americans are concerned about each other as we have learned to treat others as we would like to be treated. This seems to work 'hand in glove' with democracy - that what benefits one of us can benefit all of us in things like health insurance, equal pay for equal work, voting rights, clean water, clean air, education...
Call it any name you choose - democratic, socialist, decency in action, golden rule - it is the same 'leftist' (your term) ideology upon which Tom J and George W and Ben and Henry and the boys settled on as the path to a better life - to an interdependence with each other and a planet.
Truth is we need each other strong and a planet clean and living. What we really DON'T need is extremely wealthy aloofness dictating where their next bombs will land so they can send in the miners to plunder. Terminating corporate rights would do more for civilization than extending them.
We live in a land blessed with abundance, cursed with abundance and desperate for equal access. Your traditionalists are slavers; your leftists are planning the new revolution to behead your corporatist takeover of our country and to free the slaves.
Expect a miracle.
Expect equality and decency.
Plan on restoration of epluribus unum.
The path to success is easy to express -
Err and err and err again,
But less and less and less.
Bob Jack, defining 'traditional' values is a slippery slope in a world that is constantly changing.
In the year 1860 many people probably considered the ownership of slaves to be a traditional, God-given right protected by the Constitution.
Joe Lamy; Thank you, this July 4th, for putting everything in a proper perspective.
The true spirit of Independence flourishes in you.
TEA - "What a bunch of ultra-liberal gobbeldyguke."
Another example of Bob Jack's traditionalism, a complete lack of tolerance.
Mark,
except for the conclusion in the form of slightly nuanced grook from my Danish cohort and good friend Piet Hein, the answer to your question "Where is it from?" is the heart of a man.
You got problems with the truth??...Try confession, prayer or volunteering for a few years. You may be able to come to your senses when you wake up and smell the humanity.
Alternately, you may wish to read more by the same author.
June Hog Salmon is available online now as an e-book. It's just the screenplay of a kiddy lit ecology book about what happens when convenience is more important than ecological health. We wiped out salmon that were our size... http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl... But that would cost you money.
Here's a link to my most recent article on why real estate is going green.
http://www.examiner.com/article/real-est...
And here's a snapshot into education in our immediate future and how roles will merge among teachers/managers and mentors/coaches and become 24/7 advisers and directors as much as last century's teachers were storehouses and disseminators of understanding, sharing and understanding sharing and sharing understanding.
http://www.examiner.com/article/personal...
Happy birthday, freedom and justice for ALL!
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Bobby Jack is entitled to his beliefs & his views but that all they are.....his beliefs & his views!
Yes, America is a nation of immigrants. Other than the "most American of Americans," (the Native Americans) we all got of a boat some time back....
Our strength through out our history has been our diversity. The presence of the Golden Door has as much (probably more) to do with what has made this country great than any single factor.
Freedom of religion also allows for "freedom from religion."
Not all the Founding Fathers embraced religion. As a group, they clearly understood how unjust & tyrannical theocracies had been through out history and they clearly believed in the concept of "separation of church and state."
The present attitude among the extreme right-wingers, (teabaggers) "my way of the highway," reminds me of Nazi Germany during the late 1930's & into the 1940's.
The National Socialists could never have gained power with out the deep pockets of the German industrialists. The Krupp family in Nazi Germany had the same type of attitude that we see today when looking at the Koch brothers...
Happy 4th of July to everyone out there!
I sincerely mean that and I'm including such brain-dead posters as TEA & the "little Italian puppet maker" in my statement...
Hey Bob, which God are you talking about? Are you saying if someone doesn't believe in (your) God then they are un-American? If God is guiding America then why are people mad at politicians? They must all be part of his plan. And since God is in control and they are part of his plan, why does it matter who we vote for? God will guide us. Gott mit uns!
Bob Jack has his opinions as we all do but the good news is that younger generations have an entirely different worldview than the old dinosaurs still left breathing.
On issue after issue, things such as climate change and gay marriage, right-wingers continue to kick and scream and whine but everybody else has accepted reality and moved on.
'Traditional values' is the new 'family values' term for right-wingers. 'Family values' lost it's luster after we found out about those dark, secret lives of the Larry Craigs and John Ensigns.
WOW; Awesome comments, Jim 6:43 a.m.; Joe 8:17 a.m; and El_Lobo 11:35.
And perhaps this would be a good day for TEAbaggers to go back to bed! :)
Hey TEA....
I like what FDR said about conservatives....it's still true today!
He said:
"Conservatives are people with two good legs who refuse to walk forward."
Let's keep underminding those tradition values like Grant took Richmond.
Blacks were 3/5's of a human being and could not vote under the original constitution and women didn't gain the vote until the early twentieth century. Now remind me again about "traditional" values?
Liberal Accomplishments:
GI Bill 1945--FDR
NATO----1949--Truman
Marshall Plan--1947--Truman
Peace Corps--1961--JFK
Space Program--JFK&Johnson
$0 hr. work week--1938--FDR
Minimum Wage Law--1938--FDR
Overtime Pay--1938--FDR
Social Security--1935--FDR
Unemployment Compensation--1935--FDR
Rural Electrification Act--1936--FDR
Federal Deposit insurance--1933--FDR
Federal Home Loan Program--1934--FDR
Securities&Exchange Act--1934
School Lunch Program--1946--Truman
Guaranteed Student Loan Program--1965--Johnson
Operation Head Start--1965--Johnson
Medicare--1965--Johnson
Medicaid--1965--Johnson
Women's Suffrage Amendment
Civil Rights Act--1965--Johnson
Voting Rights Act--1965--Johnson
Motor Voter Act--1993--Clinton
Family and Medical Leave Act--1993--Clinton
Republican accomplishments:
??????????????????????????
On the 4th of July in the Land Of The Free & The Home Of The Brave...
we've got the TeaNuts coming on here and telling us how special they are and how 'un-special' liberals are;
Well, ain't THAT patriotic of 'em?
@Don from Canada--A Happy American Fourth of July to you. Thanks for your thoughtful comments above.
@Mark Traeger--Your videos are great.
To the Left who posted--you all made my point--thanks!
Vidi,
Thank you for the information you posted.
Bob Jack,
FYI: Typically, Canadians could care less about our 4th of July. They celebrate Canada Day on July 1.
Houstonjac: Are you thoroughly confused? You did not make any point.
Vidi.....
Great post! Thanks for the information....
Should we now hold our breath and wait for the Republicans to list all of their accomplishments?
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
I love what Woodrow Wilson said about conservatives. He said:
"Conservatives are people who sit and think and sit and think, but mostly just sit."
Earth to houston : maybe you dudes should have stayed suceded.You certainly have made the rest of us pretty miserable the last hundred and fifty years.
Bob Jack.....
Please read and learn from every liberal who
commented about your letter.
We liberals will continue to teach you
conservatives about common sense, love and empathy
for your fellow man.
You have a long way to go, Bob.
And not only do we liberals out-number you
conservatives, we liberals are every bit as
American as you are.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
In reply to Bob Jack: Take a good hard look at all the liberal posts that smeared and vilified your letter to the editor. And then, reread them again. Whether you want to believe it or not, "Teamster" was right when he wrote, "we liberals out-number you".
Therefore Bob, traditional values that you and I share are pretty much gone forever, as far as being the majority view. All these liberals that have "trash talked" you on our Independence Day prove that we always must remember their code; "666, The number of the evil beast".
Or, should I say, the clear cut sign of the evil beast?
Slavery,pogroms,the inquisition,lynchings,famine-perhaps you confuse the words fascist and virtue.
The belief that "God" (a man-made figure that can mean different things to different people, elsewhere called "Allah") is guiding the U.S. is frightening.
I cannot fathom why anybody would want to believe in a God that guides a country to war all over the place, and often, in order to support its questionable economic system. I guess you believe in that kind of God because you, yourself, are doing just fine and the heck with actual Christian morals.
Believing that your God favors the U.S. is absurd, in my opinion. Don't you think that our slow slide has some ethics lessons in it?
Believing God is behind you has been an excuse for all kinds of mayhem and madness. It cannot be disproven empirically, so you can claim anything as God's will.
If God is behind the U.S., then I guess God hated the indigenous Americans for no good reason, and much of the rest of the world that has been attacked and interfered with for profit. What kind of God is that? I don't think it's the kind of God Jesus was trying to promote.
Brad. Your points are right on. The values that I described are the ones envisioned by the Founders. The vitriol from the left is clear. My point is clear. There is a primal struggle going on in America between these traditional values and the leftist ideals. You can confirm this by reading the leftist posts above.living the leftist lies is not an option.
"To my way of thinking, there are three essential principle [sic] American values. . . . .In God We Trust: The notion and belief that an almighty power is the foundation and guiding force for the nation."
Jack -- it's not a value, it's an opinion. Disbelief in your god is just as protected as belief. It's all part of the actual liberty, freedom of conscience. The root cause of this perversion being nothing appeals to masses of voters like religion with all its attendant evils. Hence the Christian Creep -- that motto on our money, "under god" inserted post WWII into the pledge of allegiance. Seems you god-fearers are just better organized than us god-whatevers.
"Let's keep underminding those tradition values like Grant took Richmond. . . . . .Slavery,pogroms,the inquisition,lynchings,famine-perhaps you confuse the words fascist and virtue."
hookershaky -- amen!
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
Bradley Chapline stated on July 4, 2012 @ 1:57 a.m.:
All these liberals that have "trash talked" you on our Independence Day prove that we always must remember their code; "666, The number of the evil beast".
`````````````````````````````````
I just had a WTF moment! WOW unbelievable who is REAL Bradley. Forget the motherhood and apple pie comments about your life. You are a real piece of work. How dare you and who does and says that? Shame on you Bradley! Who are you? OMG! Your comment is tasteless, disgusting, despicable, and the most telling classless. It appears as if you do not have any manners and definitely no class. I will never read you silly little stories about your life. Shame on you!
"In God we trust" is definitelyo a value. It is one of the three principal American values
that I described. . You really are mincing words and intentionally missing the point.
The point that one side is more successful than the other in getting the word engraved in important public places to describe its own values is really what this debate is all about. As a matter of fact you leftist s cannot tolerate the values on which this nation is based, and keep attempting to eradicates the important symbolism that represents these values.
The founders wanted flexibility and resilience; they gave the right to change to pass on so we can adapt.
There was absolutely zero reference to lap-tops or airplanes, but there was indications that our will, that is the will of PEOPLE, not corporate interests, is the driver, not the captive.
Ben F, George W, John A and Tom j would have scoffed at Citizens United, the purchase of ballot boxes and the plutocracy that ensues. It's a people thing, not a money thing... been there, done that, and chose humanity over hubris---the founders.
Bob Jack July 4, 2012 @8:08 a.m.
If you think that the stairway to heaven is just open for right wing radicals and the uber-wealthy who wouldn't post here, I believe you are mistaken. And I don't think the doors will be open for the Sunday Morning ONLY Christians either!
I was a Republican when Republicans had class. Today, they are TEAbagger/Republican types who do not have any class and they are radical in presenting their opinions. They cannot be civil and objective; they are fueling the Boogie Man. I have said this MANY times, but will say it again. The Republican party today is NOT the Republican party of 5, 10, 20 years ago. I grew up in a Republican household. And my family are still ALL Republicans.
PS Bob Jack I am not a Democrat! I am a NP. And I refer to my party as the ARP (Anti Republican Party). My better half is an Independent, but also a member of ARP :)
"The point that one side is more successful than the other in getting the word engraved in important public places to describe its own values is really what this debate is all about. As a matter of fact you leftist s cannot tolerate the values on which this nation is based, and keep attempting to eradicates the important symbolism that represents these values."
Jack -- that's hardly "the point," and your opinion masquerading with a "leftist" label as "American values" shows how ignorant you really are. I actually read the Constitution and the Founders, as you can see from how my quotes usually include their source. Yours are just nude -- as in baseless -- opinions.
"The mental activity of such people is only a mouthing of cliches. What they mistake for thought is simply a repetition of what they have heard. My guess is that well over 80 percent of the human race goes through life without having a single original thought." -- H L Mencken, 1956 "Minority Report"
You have to admit things have changed greatly from the time the Pilgrims and their Puritan beliefs stepped onto the rock to form this country. I thought it was "all men are created equal" in having the same chance to succeed and freedom of speech and religion were the main concerns. The country now seems to have strayed from these points now, or has it really?
Traditionalists supported George the Third and fled to Canada !
If we're lucky, maybe these supporters of George the sixth will flee to Texas !
Bob Jack:
Your letter to the editor is sincere and heartfelt. It is also wrong in your interpretation of the three traditional values. I will break each one down:
you said:
Liberty: the freedom to pursue one's hopes and dreams without undue interference from one's government and fellows.
I say:
This liberty you speak of belongs to the most extreme right wingers AND all of the people on the left who oppose you. It extends to all its citizens and is not a license for you to claim your belief system is superior to anyone else. I feel you wingtards don't belong here, you know what? Too bad for me, I have to SHARE my space with you. Same rules go for yoou, too bad for you.
you say:
" In God We Trust: The notion and belief that an almighty power is the foundation and guiding force for the nation."
I say:
Give it a rest! I am a Born Again Christian, do you really want the Teachers of America and WalMart being intertwined with educating your children about God? Take care of your beliefs your way in your home and with your Bible and in your Church. And let everyone else do the same. Or they are free to not join any church, read any Bible, or adhere to any religion.
The truth about the "In God We Trust" is here: "In God we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.
In God we trust has appeared sporadically on U.S. coins since 1864 and on paper currency since 1957.
It has no basis in the founding of this country.
You said:
" E pluribus unum: meaning "out of the many, one."
I say:
What you mean to say is "Out of the minority of people who feel like I do, we should have the right to force our ideals down their throats and if I don't get my way I will make your life as awful as I can get away with"
Welcome to the new, constantly evolving America, where you are now a link, and no longer the chain.
Houston is pretty much a broken link though ! Freedom of religion is pretty much our founding principle.
In reply to Jeff; for once you might be right. However the stess of a chain with weak links will break soon enough. And, during the interim, us weak links will make sure any ride you "CondemnOcrats" have will not ever be smooth.
BChap:
I don't think I said you were a weak link, I value your American link as much as my own. I think this is why I despise the TEAthinking so much, they think they should tell me what, when, and why to think, and if i don't...
...just read here a while. They are interlopers here. This is a newspaper forum, not a TEAparty activists site. And the newspaper is decidedly progressive. I don't go to townhall.com, or michellemalkin.com and tell them how stupid they all are all day.
I just think it to myself.
Bradley stated on July 5, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.:
In reply to Jeff; for once you might be right
`````````````````````````
And my response, is you ould recognize right? How? Never mind. I don't think so! I don't have time to read about your life LONG stories.
The truth will win and the spin masters will spin right into the universe.
I see the typeo.
There are a lot of times while reading the comments on various topics I have an OMG "no you did not say that..." moment. I have read horrible comments about people and groups of people that I have never heard in my lifetime.
Bradley, while taking my second sip of coffee first thing this morning I read your comment above (July 4, 2012 @ 1:57 a.m.): All these liberals that have "trash talked" you on our Independence Day prove that we always must remember their code; "666, The number of the evil beast". I have been absolutely mortified all day long.
When reading many of the comments, I ask myself, who says that kind of stuff; what kind of people are they? Who even thinks that? I look around and hope they are not in my neighborhood. Some people may have an opinion, but would never put it on the internet; unless that is how they were brought up. I don't know. To me, they are the Boogie Man!
It is shocking that that the Republican/TEA Party is so heartless, ruthless and mean spirited. They manipulate the truth to accomplish their objectives. The problem is that the people who are paid and even those who are not paid to comment will not benefit from the spins they spend all day long writing.
To the readers who may enjoy reading, but do not comment. Please do your homework; research the candidate you would like to vote for; make your own decisions based on the facts. The facts are so easy to find these days because of the internet. Make sure your decision is YOURS.
In reply to "JeffFromLasVegas"; you're exactly correct, the Las Vegas Sun is a predominately progressive sided media agency. However, I have the same rights that you do. When it comes to writing and expressing my opinions, I go where I want to, and when I want to in expressing my "freedom of speech". I refuse to "tiptoe around the tulips" and be sensitive to the herd that congregates in a particular discussion room that spends it time patting each other on the back for their communalist views.
In reply to "Kepi" from the "All Comments" section; if you don't want to be mortified, don't read or respond to what I write. That is very simple and easy. I don't actually waste any of my time reading your copious posts unless during a quick scan I see that you have decided to use my name and begin a contentious debate. You opt to make your snide and degrading comments and then expect to, per se, walk out of the writers lion's den without being bitten. It doesn't work that way. Look back on every discussion room conflict that has ever been initiated that involved both you and me. It has been you that has initiated every confrontation. Ignore my writings!!! Yes, please do me one favor and ignore me completely. I'll thank you for it.
"Kepi"; why don't make you make a concentrated effort to write a past experience of yours that would give some type of credence on why you stand on issues that you seemingly want to debate with your opponents. For, it is true that, "No foundation of experience, usually means no substance of material written."
Good Lord...
Hey, Bradley, Old Chap;
How high IS that Mighty Steed you ride in here on every day, and at your age, how the heck to you get up on it???
BChap said:
"In reply to "JeffFromLasVegas"; you're exactly correct, the Las Vegas Sun is a predominately progressive sided media agency. However, I have the same rights that you do. When it comes to writing and expressing my opinions, I go where I want to, and when I want to in expressing my "freedom of speech". I refuse to "tiptoe around the tulips" and be sensitive to the herd that congregates in a particular discussion room that spends it time patting each other on the back for their communalist views."
I say:
Glad we finally agree that you guys are each being a different flavor of Jackass when you post here. You get a gold star for something, I will figure out what it is for later.
The Left is doing what the Left does. Changes the location and shape of the goal posts, and declares a new game is in play. These fundamental values are etched in place guys. You can make all the noise you want but my position as stated in letter is correct-- "There is a ferocious political and cultural struggle going on that centers on both undercutting these values on the one hand and protecting and perpetuating them on the other."
Many of these posts are by left wing values based people--you make my case.
Are the "Democratic Donkey's" in this forum losing their perceived "Traditional Values" of caring for everyone? Take a deep breath "JeffFromVegas"! Didn't the Sun room moderator remove a comment you made the other day and noted as the reason for "Mass Personal Attacks"? You know unfortunate situations that arise like this sure does taint the credibility of such a humane political party.
In reply to "G-Mag"; thank you for asking about my abilities to climb at my age. It is amazing what some older folks can do isn't it?
Dear Left --I do not think my god should be anyone else's god--I am stating that this nation--the most exceptional nation on earth was founded on very clearly articulated values. These values are well known--if not well accepted by the leftist posters.My main point is that I believe these values are essential to the traditional American spirit, and they are being undermined by leftists who ascribe to secularism, multiculturalism and big govenment interfering with individual freedoms. Take it ot leave it --it's that simple folks.
BChap:
Here is the offending post:
"Readers:
***NV - *******D -- T*A -- c******3 -- H******jac -- Sgt **** -- Red ***** -- lv******1 -- and many others:
This is an award winning website that is decidedly progressive in its positions.
All of the above mentioned people have never said anything interesting, illuminating, or straightforwardly honest with integrity.
They all are here to bash, smash and trash everyone and everything that comes within eyesight of their venomous keystrokes. They are not looking to have any form of meaningful dialogue.
For a complete comment on the reality of these internet trolls please go to the time stamp of June 24, 2012 11:23 p.m at this link: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/jun...
I will have nothing to do with you TROLLS until November 7th, 2012.
I am in it to win it.
To make sure you Trolls stay the losers you are..."
BChap, it looks like, according to your post today, that my "Mass Attack" was spot on!!!
Bob Jack......
The majority of Americans already left the
heartless republican ideology, THANK GOD.
Republican greed destroyed our economy, remember?
We voters DID NOT FORGET.
And WILL NOT forget in November.
Your party was already done before the crazy
teabaggers took it over.
And the crazy teabaggers finished it off.
THANK GOD.
YES, IN GOD WE TRUST.
And we also trust PRESIDENT OBAMA.
BChap......
You really went off the deep end with your 1:57 am
and 3:23 am comment.
You really showed us what republican extremism is
all about.
Like we already didn't know.
That will go down as one of the craziest comments
ever.
You republicans are something else.
"JeffFromVegas" writes; "BChap, it looks like, according to your post today, that my "Mass Attack" was spot on!!!"
More irrational thinking from you, Jeff. The Las Vegas Sun moderator, didn't see it that way when he removed your bigoted type post. And this came from an employee of a liberal news organization!
George Carlin once said, 'Anyone that drives slower than me is an idiot, and anyone that drives faster than me is a maniac.'
Traditional values appear to fall under the same categories.
BCap said:
"More irrational thinking from you, Jeff. The Las Vegas Sun moderator, didn't see it that way when he removed your bigoted type post. And this came from an employee of a liberal news organization!"
It was not bigoted in any way. It was factual, you have even given it more of a factual basis with your open comments about being a troublemaker who won't let people of like minds freely associate. Here is your quote: "I refuse to "tiptoe around the tulips" and be sensitive to the herd that congregates in a particular discussion room that spends it time patting each other on the back for their communalist views."
What is funny is you advocate far stronger for communalism than liberals ever have.
Honest to Pete, I consider myself a traditionalist, a god-fearing American and a blend of artist and scientist as many of you have shown me time and time again you absolutely have become.
It's that word - become- that inspires me, as a an American and as a human being alive and thriving.
Together, we are a beacon, a bright and twinkling origination, a star, if you will in the world of self-governance. And it comes with some strings of responsibility to hang onto what we call freedom, not to hang onto vestiges of dictatorial dominance, but to the individuality our founders envisioned for an entire society. We have a heritage to build on and a responsibility to keep the star bright.
Stars, you see, are more than burning balls of gas. They are in fact a creation of creations. They are cauldrons of connectivity, and the carbon in our bodies got here through the creation of stars. We truly are legacies of celestial explosions.
For the last 14 or so billion years we have derived from the chunks of inertness to arrive as our present condition as cogent beings.
And with this arrival in the US in last few decades, each one of is obliged to recognize our own star-like capacities, our abilities to connect, to fuse and derive - in effect to become.
Tradition calls for conscientious forethought, planning and anticipation based on understanding of where we came from, what we learned in getting here and in melding our potentials to benefit the moiety as well as ourselves.
Democracy as we all know, relies on the dependence of interdependence for our independence. We need strengths diversified, not power isolated; futuring our democracy means sharing understanding and understanding sharing. The past and in many countries, the present is demonstartion enough that concentrated powers merely corrupt...Iran, Syria, Russia, I could go on...you know what i mean.
Democracy and our star-like status have a chance to survive if and only if we take seriously our past, address aggressively our current state of inequality, and work deliberately toward developing a better world where civility and decency can empower the multitudes whose brightness and stellar qualities have been relegated to third world status, for that is truly our own destiny if we fail to maintain our connectivity, to engender trust and humanity, and to empower the disadvantaged.
Since the author states that God guides our nation, in God we trust, and assigns some acts and beliefs as virtuous, it might be helpful to review some spiritual virtues. They are guidelines for behavior and intention.
The sense I got was that the Christian God was behind the comments on Tradition, and because of historical events. On that basis I include the following.
[This doesn't mean any disrespect to other beliefs or lack of them. It is simply in the context I mentioned.]
They are from the Catholic catechism, but the source is the Old and New Testament scriptures, as well as Aristotle and Plato. It think they are very traditional across most Christian denominations.
I will also throw in the opposite of these virtues, the vices, for edification.
Chastity/Lust
Temperance/Gluttony
Charity/Greed
Diligence/Sloth
Patience/Wrath
Kindness/Envy
Humility/Pride
From Proverbs 6:16-19...what the Lord hates:
A proud look.
A lying tongue.
Hands that shed innocent blood.
A heart that devises wicked plots.
Feet that are swift to run into mischief.
A deceitful witness that speaks lies.
[The worst of all is...]
Him that sows discord among brethren.
Who is without sin?
Some Christian reminders:
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged." (Matthew 7:1)
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:5)
The Gospels have numerous account of Jesus' teachings. For Christians it is imperative they study and understand the meaning of the teaching for their lives.
It is not enough for Christians to proclaim God is guiding this country if so many are claiming a connection with God, yet do the opposite of the teachings of Jesus.
Traditional? Right? Left? Conservative? Progressive? Liberal?
All who call themselves Christians have a very high standard to live up to, and to witness to the world.
Do the comments here give witness to the teaching on Love? If not, maybe some time should be devoted to considering what virtues and vices are effecting the quality of communication here. However, only apply them to yourself.
It is easy to learn the meaning associated with each of the virtues and vises.
In closing, I refer those interested to 1 Corinthians 13:13...
"Three things will last forever--faith, hope, and love--and the greatest of these is love."