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Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2012 | 2 a.m.
In regard to Peter Goldmark’s recent column, “To bomb or not to bomb Iran,” in it he questions whether we should “bomb another country with which we aren’t at war and which is not preparing to attack us.” One potentially fruitful approach to persuade Iran to abandon development of nuclear weapons would be to demonstrate that we are ready, willing and able to do whatever is necessary to prevent this.
A surprise attack, intended to disable uranium-enrichment and related facilities, has presumably been planned. Carrier-launched aircraft could be over Iran within minutes after takeoff and reach their intended targets shortly thereafter. It seems highly probable that, even allowing for some losses, substantial damage to the program could be inflicted.
If convinced that such an attack would most likely be successful, the Iranians might see fit to suspend their program and permit inspection to confirm this.
One approach to such persuasion would be to publicize some specifics, including possible points of launch, number and type of aircraft and targets. Congress should specifically authorize the president to order such action, when and if deemed advisable.
Sadly, diplomacy doesn't work with some and Iran and its leaders are such. Teddy was right to carry a big stick. And he was right when he used it to convince others he could/would.
President Obama was exactly right when he said in the State Of the Union address that he will not tolerate an Iran with nuclear weapons. He also said he will stop at nothing to prevent it. Now he needs to take a page from Teddy and prove that he means what he says.
Carmine A. DiFazio
What to do about Iran has got to be one of the most vexing problems facing the United States, Israel and most of the rest of the world.
Many although not all 'experts' have concluded that an attack (without a follow on invasion and very long occupation) would only set Iran's nuclear development back a couple of years.
If that is accurate, I have a suggestion for both the United States and Israel, given history and our recent experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Make the sanctions as tough as possible; assassinate their scientists if we can; use cyber warfare to destroy their computer network and work behind the scenes to destabilize their government, which is where the real problem is.
If an attack becomes absolutely necessary, be honest enough to admit that we will NEVER invade and occupy Iran and make the ironclad committment to return and bomb their nuclear facilities as many times as necessary until we are convinced that they have stopped development or that a stable and trustworthy government is in place.
If we can't make and keep that committment to bomb the facilities as many times as necessary and are unwilling to invade and occupy Iran for a long time (and we are unwilling to do that), DO NOT BOMB THE FACILITIES AT ALL.
Here's what not to do. DO NOT, as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan think that the endeavor can be easy, low cost, accomplished quickly and won't have consequences that we cannot possibly know or anticipate.
Michael
It is almost inevitable that Israel will bomb Iran in an effort to derail Iran's nuclear ambitions. Arab extremists will consider the bombing as an American/Israeli act and a new army of terrorists will be bred from this event. This is today's world and we must acknowledge that we will be making these kinds of decisions for many years to come until the "Arab Spring" brings these countries out of the dark ages of religious fanaticism.
Unfortunately, this evolution will not take place in our lifetimes, or the lifetimes of our children. America needs a complete reevaluation of how we defend our homeland and we must use our resources more prudently. We must stop building fighter jets and aircraft carriers that cannot defend against underwear bombers.
The Obama administration has done a tremendous job of identifying and eliminating known terrorists. This approach will be America's best defense for the foreseeable future and for this reason alone, Obama and his people deserve a second term.
Frank,
I proposed none of what you accused me of proposing regarding Iran and nuclear weapons. You're real good at just making stuff up. I have to give that to you.
I know it irritates you that I look for compromise and won't just jump totally to one side or the other, whip out my side arm and 'let er rip'. Too bad.
There is not one side here who has it totally right.... no matter how many times you claim that there is.
Michael
Although the consequences are likely to be extremely threatening to the Western European, American and Israeli nations, I presently do not see any fruitful path to avoiding the bombing( repeatedly if necessary) of the Iranian nuclear facilities, and key military targets that would be used to repel the bombing, and in retaliation for the strike. I agree with Michael's statement as follows:
"If an attack becomes absolutely necessary, be honest enough to admit that we will NEVER invade and occupy Iran and make the ironclad committment to return and bomb their nuclear facilities as many times as necessary until we are convinced that they have stopped development or that a stable and trustworthy government is in place".
There is a collective body of opinion giving much more credence to this approach. As to the initiation of such an attack, the initiator might be Israel and NATO forces could join in to support Israel and demonstrate support to the action.
OK, let's say we bombed the two sites existing now and successfully took them out -- at any cost (And remember, Iran has a modern air defense system, so either the cost is likely to be high for a fighter/attack sweep or the air defenses would have to be significantly degraded before targeting the nuclear sites.) But let's ASSUME "success" defined as destroying both sites completely. What happens then?
We haven't killed the people with knowledge of how to make nuclear weapons. Even if we killed all of those folks in our strikes, there are more physics and engineering students and graduates who can be trained by N. Korea and by the Khan family of Pakistan. And, since any tech with the right kind of centrifuge can make bomb-grade material in a shed, what will we have accomplished other than a short delay in which the cancer metastasizes and returns in a more virulent form.
And that is the result of "SUCCESS."
What is it with you people and your need to kill? Why are you unable to learn from your mistakes?
We just got out of war with a country that we attacked, the only country we EVER attacked first, and how did that work out? We replaced the secular sociopath with a "democracy" that will become an Islamic totalitarian state within a few years. We lost more soldiers in Iraq than people on 9/11. We have tens of thousands of wounded veterans whose lives were changed because of conservative blood lust. Will you conservatives raise taxes to cover the cost of the inevitable war?
So your solution is to send pilots to bomb the known nuclear facilities. What if the real facilities are elsewhere? What if the facilities are deeper underground than our bunker-busters can go? What if one of our pilots is shot down? Have any of you been captured by Islamic fundamentalists? No, I didn't think so. Any descriptions you've read don't compare to the real thing.
Do you really believe that the Iranian people have a clue what's really going on in the world through the state-run media? If the Bush Administration could convince us, right or wrong, that Iraq was behind 9/11, how hard would it be for the Iranian government to convince its people that we were behind an attack on Iran? If you were Iranian and Iran was attacked, wouldn't you fight back? Are you locals prepared for a terrorist attack on Las Vegas?
If you volunteer to go to Iran and fight, you will not be turned down due to age, infirmity, or any other reason. Show of hands?
With apologies to The Beach Boys, are we back to "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" as we were during the Reagan Administration?
@fosimmons...
"Caslter should be considered as a diplomat to be sent to Teheran ... he's got all the ideas and would immediately solve the great issue of a nuclear weapon in the hands of the Mullas who vow to wipe Israel off the planet - Castler would explain how both sides need to be heard and have fair options that would benefit both sides and both would then come out okay - Castler would make them heed one another and listen and be co-operative ..."
LOL!!!
(c'mon, Michael...even you must admit that was funny:)
I personally think the left-wingers in this discussion room should all get together and conduct their own mock war game situation with the United States against Iran. Once they have completed these simulated war games, they should submit their results to both Washington and this discussion room.
Here is the scenario of one of their war games.
All left-wing participants get into a small swimming pool together. Each bringing their own little toy soldiers, ships and war planes all disguised as, and similar to, JFK's "little yellow rubber duckies". You know, the type that was recently reported that JFK used while he was bathing with that young Democratic intern at the White House? In the center of the swimming pool would be one of your atheist friends that would be simulated as Iran. As his defense, he would have all his little symbolic toys with him representing the defenses of Iran.
Okay boys! Let the splashing and the simulated war games begin!!!
It is a ferocious encounter. Iran seems to be losing since it is being bombarded with bubble bath oils from the rubber duckies above. But, no, suddenly, an atheist missile pops out of a silo. Quickly, all the left-wing yellow rubber duckies descend on the missile silo. There is a mad, passionate battle. But, the great American, "left-wing, rubber duckies" of America have won the battle. Peace has been made. All the once combatants and enemies now embrace as one.
I've been accused of writing fairy tales. How did I do on this one?
Hey "Dipstick", Why so rude against us Marines? In my mock war games simulation of you left-wingers against Iran, I gave all you "little yellow rubber duckies" credit for fictiously winning the war. Gave you credit for acting within your party lines in hugging the enemy. What more do you want? Hey little yellow rubber duckies, simmer down now.
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
One thing is for sure is President Obama does and will take it to terrorists. This he has done a great job of.
On another note you can't reason with these typse because anyone that would strap a bomb on someone and blow themselves up obviously can't be dealt with. If we do have to go after them, do it with airstrikes or from satellites if possible. Let the paremedics sort them out afterwards.
The old what if game from the war mongers.If they don't get any oil money it has to slow down the process. I don't want Iran to have a weapon either but you can't go to war with somebody every few months. We already did that with Iraq and their weapons of mass destuction. Hopefully Israel will take care of this problem for the rest of us and we can sit this one out. We have fought enough wars and its somebody elses turn.
Any pre-emptive attack will probably come from Israel. The ideal solution would be to have it come from Russia. But that isn't going to happen.
The real debate is over what rights a sovereign nation has to develop whatever technologies it wants and/or needs versus the threat that such technologies might pose to other sovereign nations.
Also, all the talk about a surgical air strike is nice, but bunkers can be built hard enough to withstand anything short of a nuclear bomb, and even that might not be a sure thing against something built deep enough. It will takes boots on the ground to really be sure the job is done right if that course of action is taken.
Right now I'm leaning towards the TR approach, but only using the big stick *after* someone does something to warrant it, not before. We already know what happens when perceptions of threat are faulty.
If that means we get a bloody nose first, so be it. We can make damn sure the other guy gets a lot worse.
Actually the president all ready has the right to launch a strike against Iranian nuclear sites. That said I think what we are doing is more then adequate. Economic sanctions, cyber warfare and the amazingly short life span of a Iranian nuclear scientist will get the job done without a potential world war 3 scenario. Pakistan who supports the Taliban in Afghanistan and sheltered Ben ladin and does in fact possess nuclear bombs is a far greater danger then Iran.
gamag39,
I guess you just don't understand that I don't try to get laughs at the expense of someone else, don't name call and don't belittle the opinions of others, nor do I think others should do that.
I'm not going to cry over what Frank says or that you think it is funny. I just think it is kind of sad that we can't engage in honest debate. When that happens, we all lose.
Michael
Comment removed by moderator. refers to removed comment.
People assume that other people across the planet are exactly like themselves.
That is a bad assumption.
Some of Iranian leaders don't give a hoot if their nation could be flatten by the US war machine.
In fact, they consider that to be a badge of honor in service to their god.
Iranian President Mahmoud's Ahmadinejad's believes that the Messiah will return when the end of the world comes near.
To him, if something causes WWWIII then he would be happy for that means his Messiah is about to arrive.
Those people are nuts.
We need to be careful.
They are not rational people.
Do exactly what Obama is doing - cut them off from world trade, destroy their economy through sanctions and let internal upheaval bring the country to a halt.
There are a lot of rich Iranians, albeit with Turbans, that like their money, and they will take actions to continue their access to the world markets. They won't sit idly by and watch their family fortunes be destroyed for the political aspirations of a few. Once the Iranian Government is churning in it's own slop, the time to move will be ripe.
"the time to move will be ripe."
It was already and Pres Obama missed the opportunity. Iran's leaders won't make the same mistake again. The saber rattling with the US and Isreal is the Iranian ploy to focus attention on the big bad wolf rather than the country's gov't and leaders. Keep the uprising people quelled and calm eyeing the bigger albeit pretend picture.
Carmine A. DiFazio
These are not nice people.
The Syria government is slaughtering their own people. The Iranians are helping them do it.
The Iranians during their war with Irag would force their own children to walk into minefields to clear them.
The Iranians built special IED's so that can penerate US tanks and other armor machines.
They took and held for over 400 days American citizens that where working in the US Embassy. One of the key Iranian students that was part of that is now President of Iran.
These are the same people that have no problem executing teenage girls for dating a Christian or Christians that converted from the Muslim regilion.
These are the same people that are Ok with not giving education services or basic health services to their women.
These are the same people that have no problem with putting a bomb vest on a mentally handicap 8 year old and having her walk into a crowded street corner to kill lots of civilians.
That is what we are up against.
They will do anything in the name of their god and do it happily and without any reservations.
If you want to bring the Iranian economy to a standstill all you have to do it infect their Pistachio crop. They depend more on exporting their "nuts" than they do their oil.
Of course if that fails all of the arm chair Generals present today can rattle their sabers some more.
Too late. Frost already did the crop in. The exports are at one-third of normal export. One of the reasons the Iran economy is in the duldrums.
Carmine A. DiFazio