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Sunday, Dec. 30, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Carson City — Nevada conservatives cherish the Second Amendment, but they hate taxes. So the idea of putting armed security in every U.S. school, proposed by the National Rifle Association in response to the deadly school shooting in Connecticut, has fallen flat among Nevada's Republicans, in part because of the cost. But another idea — to allow teachers and administrators to carry guns on school campuses — has gotten at least initial endorsement from two Republican legislators. On Dec. 21, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre called in a news conference for "every single school in America (to) immediately deploy a protection program ...
Armed combat trained Teachers with firearms can also impose more control and discipline over students, think of a schoolteacher version of Judge Dredd.
Oh, but that would make teacher unions much more powerful.. never mind..
And just where do these teachers keep the guns where the students can't get to them, and yet have quick access to them?
I love hearing ignorant Liberals spouting nonsense! If they knew anything about what they were talking about? They'd know that the Clark County School District has had its own ARMED police force for years! ARMED! Which means, there have been guns in schools in Clark County for YEARS! So ENOUGH with the ramping up of peoples emotions with "Guns on Campus" crap! The real and only question in this debate is "Do you want to protect your schools or not?" But quit the hyperbolic, panic filled, emotional statements! Grow up and start acting like an adult!
A bill is put forward by Fiore that would allow students to carry on campus? Bad idea. It seems the worry is always about money. Been saying this all along that its the cash that dictates what happens. Well given the amount of waste in government, for example foriegn aid, I'd imgine we could cut some of the wasteful spending and direct it towards protecting our kids.
But then again Obama just gave Congress a raise for doing nothing.
These same Tea/Republican politicians have no problem with gutting the teachers' union and removing money from the State education system. But they agree that we should spare no expense to arm teachers and/or put armed guards in every school?
Oh. Sure. That'll work. Take away books and pencils from the students, but go ahead and give guns and knives to the teachers.
Madness.
This article is unrefutable proof that it's important that people get out and vote. The incredible nonsense spewed by our lawmakers is only making matters worse. Get rid of 'em with your votes, people. We ain't got time for this idiocy.
Just like TSA is partially funded by taxing airline ticket so could security in schools be paid for by licensing and regulating purchase and ownership of firearms and ammunition including commensurate taxation.
If the ex-Senator from Kenya and his ragtag followers of loons, liberals, lying juvenile journalist and Hollywood type psychopaths could get the economy roaring like they have homegrown terrorists and the gun-nut survivalist industry, immigrants wouldn't be heading back across the border in search of a better life, only to find more assault weapons violence than when they left! (Fast and Furious)
You forgot to mention that and the Waco Texas massacre MotorSports
Arming school administrators and teachers has to include a decision made by the neighborhood community where that (and each) school is located in. This is not an instance where the folks sitting in a District Office can speak on the behalf of the real stakesholders, those who LIVE in the neighborhood and send their school to that neighborhood school. We must support the decision of those who are directly affected.
Although I am not opposed to school staff carrying a weapon if permitted and deemed necessary, I don't advocate that such a practice is automatically done without a thorough conversation with the school's neighborhood families and having their approval and support of it.
Certainly, a gun would have to be stored in a secure location, possibly using biometrics in the locking system. The enactment of Homeland Security has given Americans a keen sense of surrendering part of our comfort in Constitutional Rights towards insuring security and safety for the many. Each of us has our own take on what that has meant in our everyday lives since Homeland Security's inception.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
Awesome! Arizona County Sheriff Joe Arpaio plans to deploy an armed volunteer posse to protect Phoenix-area students! I also heard there is a plan that will deal with the high unemployment rate of soldiers that are coming back from war. The plan is to hire all of them to secure the schools! They all have experience of fierce fighting, hand to hand combat, putting outposts around schools, setting tripwires, fortifying bunkers, plus a whole lot of other combat skills! The know about wearing bullet proof vests, helmets, carrying explosives on them, several weapons, gas masks and knives! We have our warriors to protect our schools".they are coming home every day from the war. And as far as covering the cost, well, if we trim a little bit from social security benefits, Medicare, Medicaid and heating assistance, we should be able to pay these warriors to save our children! NO more unemployed veterans and NO more violence in the schools"the best of both worlds!
TSA--good example of wasting money without increasing security. We already have airline ticket agents--with minimal training they could activate alarm buttons when a passenger looks suspicious. You think TSA agents are weeding out terrorists. It was an agent who said the 911 infiltrators via Canada looked like terrorists but he had no means of notifying anyone. Talk about the tail wagging the dog with numerous agents checking bags. Would it be the end of the world if you couldn't have carry-on luggage? There is no way in the wide world to prevent any and every possible attack or risk. School offices that have staff including secretaries, clerks, administrators could have alarm buttons to the local police force--similar to bank alarms. This would help a great deal at minimal cost.
Are your children any less important to you than president Obamas children or network media personalities whose children attend Sidwell private school with 11 armed guards patrolling the grounds and halls?
The same people that think teachers are what's wrong with everything about public education now want to put guns in the hands of those very same teachers? Watching a group of people cheerlead to destroy teachers at the same time they want to arm those teachers is enough for me to tune out that group. You can't have it both ways. You trust them with our children's lives but you don't trust them to educate our children?
Doesn't make any sense.
"Watching a group of people cheerlead to destroy teachers at the same time they want to arm those teachers is enough for me to tune out that group."
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Making school teachers take firearm combat training and carry handguns while teaching would make teacher unions a "militia" that republicans would fear in political elections me thinks..
Chunky says:
There should be at least one well-armed and tactically trained police officer or guard in every school to deter, stop or slow the crazies that are going to acquire and use guns or other mass casualty weapons regardless of the gun laws.
If a school teacher or administrator would like to be armed with a concealed weapon they should be able to make that personal decision themselves as long as they pass the background check and have proper training.
The country spends billions every year screening and protecting the airports and planes, they could surely find a piece of that money out there to protect the children who sit in schools labeled as gun free zones a/k/a sitting duck shooting arcades for the crazies.
As for "alarm buttons", that's a great idea too but when seconds count the police are only minutes away. 911 calls went out within seconds of the Newtown shooting but it was too late. Anything preventive and protective we can implement in the most timely fashion should be tried as long as it does not violate the Constitution.
That's what Chunky thinks!
Why not arm the kids too(sarcasm)? They do in Israel, But were not surrounded by 300 million Arabs
ChunkyFlyRight says: "There should be at least one well-armed and tactically trained police officer or guard in every school to deter, stop or slow the crazies that are going to acquire and use guns or other mass casualty weapons regardless of the gun laws."
History clearly refutes this argument. On April 20, 1999 Columbine High School had one armed guard on duty: 13 dead, 24 injured. On April 16, 2007 Virginia Tech had 24 trained, armed guards on the staff:32 dead, 17 injured. In neither case were armed school personnel instrumental in preventing, slowing, or ending the massacre.
And yes, I am fully aware that the right has only a very limited interest in facts that support its positions and no interest whatsoever in any other facts.
Why not have our national guard protecting our school children? Good training, they are already on the payroll and they live here and have friends and family with school aged children.
Oh, another brilliant idea from the Nutty Right in the Nevada Legislature. THEY don't want to pay for trained, armed law enforcement professionals to carry guns around our kids in public schools but THEY are HAPPY to let amateurs do it for free!
Paul Rupp's Nation Guard idea is good. Weekend Guardsmen normally have jobs and attend 2-week active duty per year. Why not replace or partially replace that with serving time in the schools. There would be some who could do more than that.
Let me get this straight -- Nevada conservatives scream and yell that public schools are failing. Teachers deserve to be fired. We are NOT worth our pay.
And NOW we need to carry around guns. Really?
Extreme conservatives are #crazy.
How about you work on giving what I need to be successful to teach kids to read - paper would be nice?
How about you give the police what they need - so they can respond professionally?
I'm not a gunslinger. If I wanted to carry a weapon and search for people to shoot - I would NOT have gone into education.
Fiore is dead wrong that "We have teachers in our school systems who are trained -- to protect our children with their firearms." Any expert that isn't living in fantasy land will tell you the only people "trained" and capable of holding off another person effectively with a gun is someone who has already undergone YEARS of situational stress training (i.e. SWAT police).
Let's all enjoy a little reality check together- http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/defend-...
The idea needs to be "on the table" and discussed, but it's not the whole solution. Evaluating mental health, eliminating secondary markets and banning these high-volume clips need to part of the conversation as well.
That's the hypocrisy of the right. They want less and less government, hate the teachers union but now want all those same teachers to become armed and trained John Rambo's. Just amazing. At least hold steady in your beliefs instead of this humongous government sponsored program of not only arming teachers but have them be prepared for any and all crazed gunmen.
Good point, sebring. While armed teachers might seem like a good idea, a teacher with a handgun doesn't stand a chance against a crazed gunman with an AR-15, unless that teacher was Byran Cranston in "Breaking Bad". Incidentally, if educators and lawmakers are really interested in the safety of our students, they might save more lives by not pressuring them to go to college. A lot of people have committed suicide because of their student loan debts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqA0j0SGQ...
This is just more stupidity and a waste of taxpayer money.
Dealing with the social problems of mental illness and unemployment and we won't have these problems.
We did not have these problems in the 50s and 60s where unions were strong, people were paid a living minimum wage and RICH GREEDY EXECUTIVEs WERE TAXED AT 70% so we did not have a deficit.
This is exactly what we need! The NRA will gladly develope and administer a nation wide school guardian program to quickly train teachers and staff that wish to be part of this. They should all be licensed and gualified to carry a concealed weapon , that way a crazy shooter wouldn't know who's armed.
The lefests need to stop the BS, it's our children's lives we are talking about and they need to put their gun confiscation dreams aside for the kids!
Great, more weapons around schools. That'll make things safer.
How about they start be demanding THAT WE BE ALLOWED TO LOCK OUR CLASSROOM DOORS instead of being told that we must keep them unlocked?!!!
"a teacher with a handgun doesn't stand a chance against a crazed gunman with an AR-15, unless that teacher was Byran Cranston in "Breaking Bad".
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:-)
Hell yeah lets put all kinds of guns in schools...shoot'em up wild wild west...Yippe-ki-yay, m**********r!!! Good lord too many people have totally lost their minds!!!!
Can you imagine 7 armed teachers running into the hallway with one lone gunman? Guaranteed it's a shooting gallery of bullets flying in 7 different directions, likely hitting the teachers with friendly fire. Teachers trained in SWAT tactics on how to take down a loon with a semi automatic? Laughable solution. You'll end up with more dead than you would with one lone gunman as a wild west shootout ensues.
Jerry, Carmine, Re, Roslenda, and numerous neanderthals routinely accuse we teachers of being Socialist stooges and union thugs indoctrination the precious children with unAmerican ideas. Now you want us armed?
I wonder how many in the national guard are potentially PTSD?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
"History clearly refutes this argument", Oh stop just making stuff up.
"Columbine High School had one armed guard on duty". Nonsense. No one was on duty. An off duty sheriff's deputy was having lunch, in his car, in the school's parking lot. He didn't know and had no way to know what was going on.
From Wiki: "Virginia Tech has the largest number of degree offerings in Virginia, more than 125 campus buildings, a 2,600-acre main campus, off-campus educational facilities in six regions".
2,600 acres is 4 square miles. V Tech is the size of a small city. They may have had, "24 trained, armed guards on the staff", but nowhere near that many were on duty. Woefully inadequate. If fully staffed, one cop per 5 buildings and 100 acres. Also, they had no idea anything like this was going to happen. Their normal duties was writing parking tickets and finding stolen bikes.
Armed school personnel may not be the answer to this temporary problem. I don't know what is. But lying about the facts just because you don't like guns and the NRA isn't helping either.
The real problem is about being PROactive. Revisiting lock down procedures, especially when there is an intruder who is irrational armed to the teeth, has to happen. Also examining vulnerable perimeter areas, and making adjustments where necessary. Devises as alarm buttons in multiple building areas would also be of some use.
Precious little can be done when an individual has an uzzy that sprays hundreds of bullets in one minute. That is the elephant in the room that means limiting access or stricter guns laws, which every American seems to have a position on.
As a rule, teachers are not usually trained for such serious confrontations. It is real doubtful any would really want the job, but when you are in an emergency situation, it is helpful to know what to do to increase the chances of living and getting out of the situation. So hopefully, more training of this nature will soon follow so teachers feel more prepared, and perhaps, less anxious.
Guess its time to talk about gun laws.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
"uzzy that sprays hundreds of bullets in one minute."
Pretty much ends the argument. Yep. That's it. Crazed republican tea baggers, who all want to kill children, spraying hundreds of AK-47 uzzys a minute. Can't win. I give up.
As the country continues to decay, we have this thread.
Teachers used to have integrity " and references written by them were only secondary to doctors and policeman!
Teachers would sacrifice anything for the welfare of their students.
Now they whine about being (Rambo) armed to protect children?
No one is asking you to be armed, but the teachers that feel comfortable and trained for the extra responsibility should be compensated to perform the extra duty.
I'm sure if Mr. VanDerbosch was armed on his walk to school????????
"Irving Pinsky, attorney is asking to sue the State of Connecticut for $100 million on behalf of a Newtowne school survivor". - national news.
After the schools are broke, teachers refuse to instruct and the gun dealers are rich, the only system that will continue to work is the Tort system of malpractice.
The client "sustained "emotional and psychological trauma and injury" after listening to the tragedy over the loudspeakers in the classroom. This means the loudspeakers in classrooms also failed because they induced emotional trauma rather than dependable instructions on how to remain safe.
Academic instructors cannot be allowed to carry guns because that makes them responsible for successful protection of students. Should they fail, lawsuits for malpractice against the school district, State and teachers would be filed. No law can be passed that makes gun equipped teachers immune to malpractice.
Once the shooter is in the classroom, it is too late. If a shooter came in the back door of a classroom and fired, students would jump to their feet and block the view of the shooter. If the instructor tried to shoot with a quick, clear view and instead, hit a student the parents would sue. If the instructor hit nothing - they or the school system could be sued for many claims, including emotional trauma.
Guards would have to be stationed along each straight section in the halls to prevent entry. The taxpayer would be forced to pay the bills to create an environment of paranoia with the sole objective of proliferating guns. The academic environment would be ruined but the gun dealers would make millions. That turns Mainstreet USA into Afghanistan USA, but gun dealers, military equipment and bullet proof backpack suppliers rich.
The answer is very simple: make those responsible for public shootings pay. They are without a doubt, those who build and sell assault rifles for the public. Make them pay until it becomes unprofitable or financially impossible to build these pieces of deadly trash.
Toy makers are routine sued for causing injury to children. Gun makers, dealers and sellers should experience the same fate: pay for the damage they do. In that manner, they could also keep their warped sense of Constitutional guarantees.
If the laws are eased to allow more concealed weapons on campus, it follows that ALL CASINOs must obey the same rules. Casinos offer a much more dangerous environment and more personal protection is needed.
More Guns in Casinos! And this will be advertised all over America - "Feel safe when you gamble in Nevada, there is a Good Guy next to you with a concealed weapon throwing the dice".
It might work to stop someone who's already done damage, but it won't work as a deterrent. The people who do these shootings are insane; literally insane. Ft. Hood was a military base for heaven's sake. Almost all these shooters commit suicide. So, you might do some good with the armed guard thing, but it would still be wise to at least visit and discuss other factors that would help deal with preventing these events. And since you don't want gun control, and you espouse mental health assistance, then start by addressing the $4.3 billion that have been cut from mental health services over the past 3 years.
I wonder if the numbers exist for this anywhere: what is the percentage of people being prescribed some type of medicine that carries a warning about side-effects that includes suicidal thoughts today versus the percentage of people on such medication 40 years ago?
I will speculate that there is a greatly higher percentage today thanks to all the ads we see every day. Even the latest and greatest "stop smoking" prescription carries a warning about this!
If my hunch is right, then as much as I don't like it, I would have to advocate including medical history in background checks, and anyone who has filled a prescription for an anti-depressant or similar acting medication within X amount of time, say 2 years (or maybe longer) should not be allowed to own a weapon, OF ANY KIND.
I'll go further and say that if any member of a person's household is taking such medication, or has a relatively recent history of such, then stringent security measures must be followed or a gun permit should be denied.
Armed security is good enough for our college students at our universities... why isnt it good enough for our young children?
Why not just home school kids, online?
When a tragedy occurs with the use of a semi automatic weapon, the gun nuts always call for more guns and the NRA and their rulers always see a profit. What a country we live in.
We have strict background checks, including an FBI fingerprint verification, for those who enter our classrooms as teachers and yet every year a child is molested by someone who slipped through the system. If we can't keep those kinds of offenders out of our schools, how do you think you'll be able to adequately monitor who can and who cannot bring a gun onto a school campus? Bad, bad idea.
In Las Vegas we can't even trust our cops with guns on the streets and you people want to put more of them into the schools.
I can't think of any place people are more under threat of harm than Israel. How are they handling the situation?
The teachers union will love the idea of having all of their members carry self defense weapons, they will all expect an increase in salary for hazard pay,gun purchases,monthly target practice sessions,travel time to the range,etc. and of course the unions will have to charge more in dues if the teachers get more.
Most teachers are interested in the money and they will only want to carry for that reason, They most probably would not engage an active shooter in a life time of teaching.
Hire professionals to protect the kids as the teachers are having a bad enough time educating them.
I think it should be clear: I don't think anyone is suggesting "Arming Teachers". I think what is being suggested is to stop "DISarming Teachers". I personally know several teachers and administrators that WOULD carry if they were not DENIED THE RIGHT. Including myself.
I have children in CCSD, and I would welcome the idea of the administration and staff of my children's school having the choice to carry.
And before anyone gets all wound up over the thought of teachers shooting it out with criminals, you missed the point. It's not about shooting it out with the criminals, it's about deterring them in the first place.
If you don't believe me, I have two words for you: Air Marshal.
Gun Free Zones don't keep anyone safe, that much is quite clear. Instead, they serve as Victim Disarmament Zones. Fish in a barrel.