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Sunday, Dec. 23, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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It has been a little more than a week since the horrific shooting at a Connecticut elementary school, and already much of the national discussion has returned to the bumper-sticker mentality about gun issues.
“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
“You don’t hunt deer with an assault rifle.”
“When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns.”
“How many people have to die before there’s change?”
On their own, those statements raise valid points, but they mask serious and complex issues, ranging from gun use to the Second Amendment. For example, guns, by themselves, don’t kill people, but a person with a grudge and a gun, particularly a high-capacity weapon, can kill many people.
What do you do about that?
It’s difficult to discuss rationally because this nation has been locked in a vitriolic debate, filled with scare tactics on both sides, between pro- and anti-gun positions. You’re either for them or against them, and the gun lobby is strong. The result has been inertia on gun policy.
The National Rifle Association, which has led the pro-gun movement, once again proved that Friday. After summoning the media, Wayne LaPierre, the NRA’s executive vice president, let loose a tirade, essentially blaming gun violence on the media, politicians, movies and video games. His speech was political, intent on stemming criticism of his group and heading off proposed gun regulation. LaPierre even offered his own bumper-sticker thought: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”
LaPierre proposed arming people on school campuses and pledged the NRA’s support. There was, however, no talk about any other issue regarding mass shootings, such as preventing “bad guys” or mentally ill people from getting guns, much less any regulations to improve safety. Essentially, the message was: more guns. That was a disappointment given that his group had promised to make “meaningful contributions to make sure this never happens again.”
The nation needs to move beyond this stilted debate and have a frank conversation about violence, particularly gun violence. Before anyone starts talking about regulations, can we at least concede that there’s a problem? The level of violence the nation has seen in recent years can’t be acceptable, can it?
So, instead of arguing about guns, let’s ask this question: How should America provide for the safety of its people, whether it’s shoppers at the mall or children at school?
As part of that discussion, the nation needs to consider the place of guns in society. For the record, we’re not opposed to guns, private gun ownership or concealed weapon permits, and LaPierre’s proposal should be honestly considered. Having a designated person who is well-trained and competent with a weapon on campus could be a good protection.
But let’s not think that simply adding a “good guy” with a gun is a panacea and leave it at that. Even the best good guy can make mistakes, have a bad day, be in the wrong place or be outgunned.
Rather than just proposing more guns, the nation should look at the root causes of mass shootings. A recent analysis of 62 recent mass shootings showed that more than half of the killers had their guns legally. How is it that the “bad guys” get these guns? Let’s address that, and let’s look at the screening process, background checks, training and regulations for gun ownership.
The issue of mental health, both in the gun debate and in society at large, also has to be considered. How is it that someone who is mentally disturbed goes through society unchecked, much less gets guns? How does the nation change that?
Political leaders and groups like the NRA need to find a way to move beyond the old talking points and start answering questions like these. It will take that type of honest discussion to move forward, curb violence and protect future generations.
Now that President Barack Obama has taken the lead on the issue, it would help if we all followed, but it would help more if we stood shoulder to shoulder to find and implement the answer.
Finally finally the SUN grudgingly admits "The issue of mental health, both in the gun debate and in society at large, also has to be considered. How is it that someone who is mentally disturbed goes through society unchecked, much less gets guns? How does the nation change that?"
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Yes it is true that deranged killers use guns, knives, fire, hands, bombs, what ever is available to murder others.
Next the SUN will need to admit that a renewal of the assault weapon ban will not work because it grandfathers all existing gun on the street and in the homes
It is interesting that since the gun ban talk has begun again, the guns are flying off the shelves in stores.
The LV Sun had an epiphany over gun ownership wow, their is hope for the leftist media.
Where is the discussion over violent video games, rap and hip hop music and violent movies that show graphic killings and mental health?
Interesting the left have no problem criushing the 2nd Amendment and taking gun rights away but, mention the 1st Amendment and and the hysteria starts.
Remember someone knew every one of these mass killers had mental problems and did nothing. Its more than the guns.
NRA donated 14 million to political campaigns over the years, Hollywood donated upwards of 45 million, no wonder we still and hear this garbage. Don't expect a lot of change from the political leadership of the country.
So, the NRA proposes armed secirity for every school. By the same alleged logic I suppose we would also need to have armed security in all shopping centers, malls, restaurants, movie theaters, churches, and who knows where else. All necessary so we can maintain gun laws that cater to the most paranoid elements in our society.
The mentally ill have long been pushed aside, ignored or incarcerated. Let's get them some treatment and keep them away from guns. The average person with a gun doesn't cause this kind of mayhem.
I gotta give LaPierre shameless Nevada grifter respect for telling America that the answer to gun violence is to buy more guns.
I was in the gun biz for a few years btw, you ignorant wacko gun nuts brought this on yourselves, your own words and comments will now be used against you, so please keep on talking loud and wacko proud.
I cannot buy rocket fuel and drive a racecar 150 miles per hour on the freeway without endangering fellow citizens and breaking the law. But what about my "unalienable right" to the "pursuit of happiness", as outlined in the Declaration of Independence? As an adrenaline junkie, I like to drive fast, so how dare the government infringe upon my right? After all, that sacred document preceded the Constitution and our beloved Second Amendment. But then, neither of these venerated texts abolished slavery or allowed women the right to vote.
Typical left wing media and liberal tripe. 12,000 gun deaths a year in this country, MOST committed by criminals who by law are NOT allowed possession of ANY firearm (how's that working out for you). But all of a sudden this big focus on gun control, because they use a major tragedy to get the eyeballs and clicks.
The 20 or so shootings EVERY WEEKEND in Chicago don't even raise an eyebrow, even by the media in that city.
peacelilly, I don't trust what the gun store owners are saying as they are in it to make a profit. More guns are why we have these horrific slaughters.
Of the 12,000 gun deaths annually in this country, if you subtract those caused by criminals (80%+), suicides (15%), and idiots (4%), you would have virtually NO gun deaths.
In a country with over 200,000,000 guns in the hands of private citizens, this in itself, is quite remarkable.
Guns in the hands of the mentally unstable needs to be addressed, but new broad brush gun control laws are hardly the answer.
Once again the American psychotic drug problem raises it's violent head while the juvenile media and Hollywood entertainment problem is ignored...."President Barack Obama has taken the lead on the issue"... No he hasn't, he and his deceptive band of followers know full well the lies in the false narratives spread by the media are not the cause. It's psychotic liberal doctors dispensing psychotropic drugs to unsupervised mentally ill patients.
In order for progress to take place both sides have to make concessions. The left has to stop telling lies for starters with their persistent misuse of terms and language that are false or don't apply in hopes of controlling the masses which are ignorant on gun issues. The right will have to acknowledge that Dad may now longer be able to pass his guns down to his sons without them going through a national criminal records check as if they were buying them retail. That is an example of what the left calls the gun show loophole.
That would be start but it is unlikely to happen. The left will never stop the lies and the right won't agree to national registration which is at the bottom of all this.
The best all around security for our society is having a high percentage of citizens carrying effective high capacity firearms. It is proven to work in many areas of the world.
Sure, let's talk about how to change society so that the mentally ill receive the help they need and those on the edge don't choose to go shoot up innocent people. In the mean time, we need to be able to protect ourselves and our children.
So if both sides are snakes, then the only prudent action is to decide to err on the side of caution. If both sides are liars, then why put more guns out there? In the face of uncertainty, why allow clips with hundreds of rounds?
Tommy guns: what you've described is America. We are better armed than any other nation, and we are the least safe. You are delusional.
The number one action that we need to take is to
BAN ALL ASSAULT RIFLES.
The number two action that we need to take is to
improve our mental health care.
The number three action that we need to take is to
never listen to republican gun nuts.
They are the main problem in this country.
It is not worth a moment of your time to argue gun rights with an NRA ZomBot.
Go buy some more guns ZomBots.
Just remember, you were invited to the discussion, you chose not to participate.
On the same day as the shooting in Conn., there was a guy in China, that walked into a school there with a large knife and started stabbing kids. 22 kids and one adult cut up. Fingers severed, ears hanging.
I don't see anyone running and saying, while we are banning large capacity magazines for these "assult weapons", we better think about banning "kitchen knives".
How long after you ban all these weapons, do you think it's going to take before people figure out, hell, I can go on the internet and just follow some easy to find directions for making an IED to carry out their missions.
I'm just sayin...
Jeff,
You are being classically disingenuous .... When Trevon Martin was killed YOU advocated that black men should arm themselves. (Search your comments for a refresher)
You can't have your hate and eat it too.
We do need some form of gun control but its not the actual guns... It's the criminals....want proof.... Do a quick study of Chicago..... It's a war zone.
The VTech shooter was judged mentally unstable. Somehow this got past our federal government's FBI backround check. Feel better?
Enjoyed the editorial.
And I am glad to see people waking up to the complete joke the NRA and other pro-gun lobby groups have been revealed to be.
There needs to continue to be a rising tide against these groups. Because we did it their way before of buying more guns. It don't work. It never has worked.
It's way past time we start disregarding blowhards like Wayne LaPierre. And especially Grover Norquist. Not only his pro-NRA stance needs to be popped like a bubble, but his no tax pledge empire needs to be utterly destroyed, breaking the deadlock on our politicians from doing anything worth a hill of beans.
The tide needs to keep mounting. The American people run this country. Not special interests who want everyone in the U.S. packing heat, thereby getting you to buy guns and be afraid, be very afraid, be afraid of anyone who even looks at you funny, feed that paranoia.
No. It stops right here and now. We ain't listening to 'em. Because they're only in it for themselves. And most importantly, to save innocent lives, we simply CANNOT afford to listen to their outrageous beliefs.
I just hope people wake up and understand the NRA and other pro-gun lobbyists simply don't have the political power they have been attributed with. They are of no consequence in the political arena.
They need to understand that our First Amendment rights, the ability to speak out on their greedy and selfish nonsense, eclipses any and all of their thinking they have cornered the market on the Second Amendment. They no longer get to hold that up in the air and wave that around for protection. Like I say, we simply can't take the chance to do the same thing and expect a different outcome.
We need to bust apart these special interests and ground them into dust. People are counting on that to happen.
Colin, I am willing to give up the 2nd Amendment if you are willing to give up the 1st and 4th Amendments.
See how stupid that sounds.
Here are three questions: Why is it I have to show my license when buying a can of spraypaint, but not 100 rounds of ammunition? Why is it my license gets run through the register when I buy Children's Tylenol, but not when I buy 50 rounds of semi-auto ammo for my Kel-Tec? Why is it some states don't allow me to send wine as a gift through the internet, but I can buy unlimited rounds of ammunition? There is a constitutional right to bear arms and I do. The constitution says nothing about ammunition. The solution starts there.
hairytic said:
"You are being classically disingenuous .... When Trevon Martin was killed YOU advocated that black men should arm themselves. (Search your comments for a refresher)"
I say:
I still support what I said, and have expanded it to include non whites and women and liberals.
I am not against guns, just against folks like you owning them...
The NRA proposes armed guards at schools. I propose to pay for all these armed guards is a tax on the manufacturers of assualt weapons and the related bullets. The tax would be on any non-hunting weapons and bullets and be collected at the manufacturer level with exemptions for law enforcement. That way the people that insist they need their assualt weapons can pay to keep everyone safe.
Jeff,
Now that's funny. You contradicted yourself in the same thread. Keep playing though and eventually you'll be right.
Folks like me?? You mean a law abiding citizen whose never been arrested and supports equal rights for all.
I actually think you mean somebody who thinks for himself. In your world freethinkers are the enemy.
Dickerjd: Your idea is good, but the NRA (and other ultra-conservatives) would never accept it. YET ANOTHER TAX!!! Naturally the NRA wants armed guards - but unpaid ones. That way their masters will be able to manufacture and sell even more expensive assault weapons.
The NRA said it would assist the effort to provide armed guards. I await their announcement that the NRA will provide all the funding to recruit and employ the needed guards, provide all the necessary training, and have its masters provide the all the needed weaponry. I await it...but I certainly am not going to hold my breath.
Stop the republican madness and stupidity.
Those kids and teachers would be alive today if
the assault rifle ban was still in place.
WE NEED AN FULL AND COMPLETE BAN ON ASSAULT RIFLES
PERIOD.
The NRA doesn't mind raising taxes so long as it improves their incomes. Grover Norquist, NRA board member has led the fight to reduce public school funding, social security, medicare, urban housing, etc. but is now willing to raise taxes to buy guns and install armed guards (retired police and military) into all schools.
The NRA sees a gold mine by inciting and backing paranoia.
"You reap what you sow" and you sowed the seeds in your Second Amendment; now you're reaping the consequences in Connecticut and other places recently, and it's no less than you deserve.
So you will continue, as a nation, to GET WHAT YOU DESERVE until you change your, frankly uncivilized and archaic laws. So stop whining every time it happens and do something meaningful about it!!!
As a nation, you brought this on yourselves and deserve NO SYMPATHY until you waken up and act.