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Thursday, Aug. 23, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Neither party is offering a plan to really address our financial mess. When financial disaster struck in 1929, many rich and powerful people were financially decimated, and some survived relatively intact. Nearly everybody else was ruined. Our civil society just sucked it up for the most part and did not attack the wealthy and powerful.
I wonder what the calculus of the rich and powerful is today. Do they think that if financial disaster strikes, it won’t affect them? Do they believe it won’t strike? Do they believe that civil society today will act as it did in the 1930s, suck it up and not attack the rich and powerful?
If I were rich and powerful, I’d look closely at the woefully inadequate economic plans of the Republicans and the Democrats, look at $16 trillion in debt and $1 trillion deficits, and I’d look really closely at our society today. I’d seriously have to wonder, if financial disaster does strike, am I immune from its effects, and what will the civil backlash be like today, versus in the 1930s?
The rich and powerful are closest to the levers of power. Perhaps they might consider kicking the two parties in the you-know-what and telling them to come up with a “real” economic plan instead of “fake” ones.
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
MC SAYS "Neither party is offering a plan to really address our financial mess"
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CBO on 8-22-2012 stated said that if Obama does not allow the Bush tax rate cut - to be extended - and if the Obama-Reid orchestrated budget sequester is not fixed the economy will result in a negative 0.5% GDP and unemployment of 9.1%.
Obama has say several times and in the recent past December 2010 - Obama extended the tax cut must be done to do no harm to the economy.
While Obama is running against the extension now for job creators - the WH has all but stated that post election if they win they will extend them again to prevent harm to the economy
The tipping point was Obamacare which is a huge new entitlement that we can not afford.
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Only Romney-Ryan have a plan to eliminate Obamacare and reform Medicare based on competition
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Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
To the room moderator; what was off topic concerning my 2:35AM post?
Did my documented examples of Romney's Mormon religion that promotes absolute political / economic power over the majority of its citizens hurt the feelings of Republicans?
Is it off topic and or a personal attack to defend my quote that says;
"In America, attaining justice against Republicans in their acts of greed, prejudice, discrimination, inequality, unfairness and biasness against its citizens, your vote for Democrat candidates is a potential cure all."
Does all this combined in the above statement not relate to a failure of our economy to recover from the Great Recession? Well, it does all have an impact.
I guess in this forum my right to free speech will most likely be removed again.
Rich Americans can probably soften any effects of a financial disaster by spreading their wealth around in different countries.
As far as Mr. Casler's lament that neither party is offering any economic solution, I have come to the conclusion that both parties truly believe that maintaining the status quo is the best they can hope for. They have all been convinced that economic austerity and even most tax increases will make the economy much worse.
I expect whichever party wins in November, or even in the case of another split government, both parties will miraculously come together to extend the Bush tax cuts as the very first piece of business, likely passing any required legislation well before the end of the year. Both groups desperately want to avoid the dreaded "fiscal cliff". I hate to break the news to them, but America already drove off that cliff during the George W. Bush era.
In my opinion the campaign slogan of both parties may as well be "Ride, ride, ride with me, On the train to bankruptcy".
Donald Desaulniers
Michael
Depending on the outcome of the
November election, if Obama manages to hang on
I believe that some sizable number of our wealthiest folks will run for havens in other countries. They will get while the getting is possible. They will take as much of their money as they can and leave. Enough is enough.
That would be a shame. Nonetheless, the confiscatory policies of this current president are insane, and I cannot blame anyone who is vulnerable to remain. I have a friend who has recently bought a home in Canada, and is moving initial amounts to Canada in anticipation of a final move after the election. This movement is beginning already and will only increase. This wealth migration will be more evident this time than during the Great Depression.One of the reasons is that American society,with it's changing demographics, and entitlement mentality of food stamps,and other government handouts is no longer an attractive place for increasing numbers of invididuals who are in the top wealth producing categories to stay in America. Even middle class Americans are increasingly dissatisfied and are beginning an outward migration. Cost of living being a major consideration.
Contrary to the rhetoric of the left, about 80% of the top 400 wealthiest people in America are self made individuals, the so called rain makers of business society. They can work their magic from places outside this country.
What is becoming more probable, is that Obama will not be re- elected, that Israel will hit Iran before the election, and that another Republican president will be consumed with a war upon taking office. In this event, there will be a flurry at the White House to undo a number of Obama's unthinkable failed policies and a real move to restore fiscal balance. And the wealth flight will be arrested to a great degree for the time being.In this event, I like the chances of concrete results.
"We have created the world's newest financial aristocracy, a class that has successfully put itself beyond the reach of government constraint and can do pretty much whatever it wants " in pursuit of its own personal gain."
From the book: "The Betrayal of the American Dream" Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele.
The wealthy, as an overwhelming majority, want to pull the ladder up into their tree house and cut the path off for everyone who hasn't made it yet. Outsourcing compensates the owners, not the country.
Romney believes we have unlimited financial resources to commit the US Military to an invasion of Iran. The debt doesn't bother him as long as it is being spent to 'destroy evil' in the world. The money to fight that war will come in part from school lunch programs and planned parenthood - because the under-privileged will supply the least costly combat infantry option for Bibi.
Well, well, "HoustonJac" finally wrote an excerpt that I mostly agree with;
"Depending on the outcome of the November election, if Obama manages to hang on
I believe that some sizable number of our wealthiest folks will run for havens in other countries. They will get while the getting is possible. They will take as much of their money as they can and leave."
You are probably right. However, I would have an answer for that. Freeze and confiscate their assets. Then, these Un-American and putrid Republicans can leave. Good riddance!!!
Don from Canada
Have some faith in your neighbor, especially if Obama is not re elected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governorshi...
Surely you jest Mr. Casler. Dems have done nothing in 4 years to reform and preserve entitlements in the USA. GOP, Romney-Ryan, have a plan to save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security from extinction by 2030 which by current measures if untouched will consume over 60 percent of the US budget. A sure amount for our bankruptcy. Dems [read Obama] talked about it, posed, talked some more, posed then and still punted.
CarmineD
Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner had it exactly right when he said we [read President Obama and Administration] don't have a plan [for entitlement reform] but we know we don't like the GOP's plan.
CarmineD
BTW, CBO Director came out yesterday and announced that if on Jan 2, 2013 the tax increases go into effect and the sequestration cuts are allowed to happen, US will experience another recession in 2013. Unemployment will likely rise to 9 percent and GDP fall to zero or negative. That's the fault of both parties, BUT Dems and Obama own the White House and it's on the Dem's watch.
CarmineD
In reply to: "FromBellevilleCanada"; the link below proves that Canadians love to herald themselves as financial wizards when economic times are good. But when these times are not, Canadians love to blame America as the primary reason for their downfall.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...
Hmm..... if my home is ever foreclosed on due to nonpayment, I guess I should take the Canadian way and blame my neighbor.
Maybe after President Obama wins reelection, Canada will grant entry to those American businessmen who elect to leave the United States. That wouldn't surprise me either. Canada harbored American military draft dodgers, why not our Republican business and financial traitors too???
Carmine,
No, I don't jest. Bush and the R's largely really damaged the economy by spending money not generated via tax revenue. Obama and D's largely rubber stamped that until the results turned bad and then haven't had the guts to stop doing it once in power. The R's plan, if placed back in power, stick fingers in holes in the dam while tons of water pour over the top.
I give Romney and Ryan credit for talking about on steps on entitlements, but along with that they talk about increased military spending, lowering taxes and don't mention any eventual tax increases and are extremely vague on what reductions in spending they will make.
I'm sorry, but although Obama's plan that never seems to reach a balanced budget is obviously a disaster, the R's plan that doesn't reach balance until the 2030's is just a slightly smaller disaster.
I call a spade a spade. Those that actually support this President and the D's .... and most importantly actually believe they have a decent plan are extremely misguided and foolish.
Those that actually support the R's .... and most importantly actually believe they have a decent plan are also misguided and foolish.
We all ought to be asking the question in the old Peggy Lee song... no matter what party we vote for and that question is .... 'Is that all there is, my friend?'....
Michael
Europe is already experiencing the flight of the rich and powerful, or their money.
It is adding to the problems of recovery.
Citizens in some countries are taking their money out of banks. How long before that occurs here?
Many of today's rich and powerful have no national loyalty. Their loyalty is to themselves, and some of their money is already gone in offshore accounts.
Who knows how much? We don't have access or release of tax returns.
Bradley,
Let me offer some advice. First, thinking and then proclaiming that either party is 'all evil, all the time' is simply inaccurate. unfortunately, both parties put their pursuit of power above all else. That makes it hard to admire them, but it also makes them what they are, which are a bunch of human beings. WE need to demand a lot more of both parties, no matter which one we support. Calling one party names accomplishes nothing of value.
Second, I don't attack you since you support the D's, I simply disagree with you and a lot of what the D philosophy is. It is quite possible for you to disagee with me, the R's and their philosophy without personally attacking me, and since the moderator, for the most part, doesn't allow such attacks, you'd be well advised to avoid them if you want what you write to appear.
I suspected the letter I wrote would generate an immediate personal attack on me and a diatribe against the R's and it did. I'm happy to debate and enjoy doing so. I'm not interested in engaging in personal attacks.
Michael
Bob,
I believe you are correct in that if the American economy continues in decline, the ubber wealthy will leave. However, there are two other facts to consider.
One: There are many many wealthy people who live here who will not be able to leave... not wealthy enough to afford to leave or businesses that can't easily be moved. Those people are the ones that should be concerned.
Two: How big and important a part of the global economy are we? A pretty big part, even if you ask people whon don't live here, like Don from Canada. If the ubber wealthy think they can easily escape the economic ramifications of an American economic meltdown, I have news for them, and the news isn't good.
Michael
"Carmine,
No, I don't jest. Bush and the R's largely really damaged the economy"
Tell Mr. Casler, at what point do we get to start blaming President Obama and the democrats for the last 4 years of the financial messes?
Fed Res Chief is poised once again to stimulate the economy. That's all the Obama economic policies have done and it hasn't worked. And won't by Nov 6.
CarmineD
A few things that come to mind...
We need a plan for reform of the "entitlements" of the wealthy.
We need to end tax loopholes and tax evasion schemes.
We need a single payer universal healthcare plan. This could eliminate Medicare and reduce Medicaid expenses.
We need to protect Social Security and increase it's ability to be real security for generations to come.
We need passage of a jobs plan, which obstructionists in Congress refuse to pass.
We need repair and replacement of decaying infrastructure, including updating to modern technology.
We need to focus on securing our grids and cyber technology in the national interest.
We need reforms of our economic system, banks, financial markets.
We need to reform drastically the lobbying system of influence.
We need to return to one person, one vote and end the "personhood" concept for other entities.
We need serious reform of campaign financing.
We need to support business in finding ways to increase the middle class with less wage disparity, and the potential for living on a one wage earner income if the economic situation requires it.
We need to end "entitlements" for business.
We need to reform and strengthen public education, with more emphasis on high academic achievement and the means to reach it. This includes more discipline and expectations to learn, not simply pass tests.
For those unable to meet the challenge, we need training in trades, and other support capabilities within the various fields. We need to start thinking in quality results outcomes, not diplomas.
We need planning for increasingly limited resources.
We public needs to understand the global issues.
We need to get an honest perspective of our role in the world, and that it has changed.
We need a new Democratic Congress to support Obama, for forward movement while hopefully working in the interest of the People as a whole.
We also need to stay on their backs for significant reforms toward good governance and the interests of the People.
We need all Americans to start thinking of how they can live within reason and save money for their future needs. No benefit to try to appear like you can afford more than one really can. Personal debt is not a good thing. Good financial governance begins at home.
Nice work Bradley and Peacelily,
An interesting research result from the Pew Research Center in the article "The Lost Decade of the Middle Class".
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/08/2...
We need to see our politicians address wage disparity and the disappearing middle class.
Now that I have had my coffee, I would like to thank Bradley and Peacelily for the excellent comments.
I get the PEW email messages, I will check to make sure I have the one Peacelily posted. Excellent link.
I see that Bradley was removed; I used to wonder why Dipstick was removed. I would read his comment; attempt to reply and poof it was gone. I suppose I will never understand why some comments are removed and some are not.
Carmine,
As I have said in the past, President Obama and the D's must shoulder the responsibility for the last four years. That doesn't and shouldn't excuse what happened in the prior 8 years, a lot of which wasn't good.
I can tell it frustrates you that I won't put the entire blame on Obama. The entire blame for where we are isn't his. The last 4 years are his. Those are the facts.
Anyone who reads what I write knows I lean conservative, especially economically, that I usually support R's and that I disagree with many Obama policies. They should also know that when I listen to Doug Elmendorf, Director of the Congressional Budget Office, who spoke today, I hear an unfiltered statement about what must be done and what is likely to happen if that isn't done. I NEVER hear that from D's in office or the party hierarchy. I NEVER hear that from R's in office or the party hierarchy. Why?
Because Mr. Elmendorf isn't in elected office, doesn't have to figure out how to do all the unpleasant stuff that will have to be done and won't suffer the ire of Americans if he proposes that or even worse... does any of it!
We absolutely need really brave leaders who tell the whole truth about taxes having to be raised and government having to be cut. We don't have that now.
The politicians know the following: We're all sitting out here after having bought the most expensive TV and Sound system at Best Buy. We bought it on a 2 year no payment plan and we thoroughly enjoyed it for two years. We loved Best Buy, with all the great electronics they offered. But now, it is time to pay, and when the bill comes, we say... ''Damn Best Buy, those $%#!*'s'' That TV and sound system is awfully expensive and its really gonna hurt to have to pay... DAMN THEM!
The only difference Carmen, is that Best Buy would make us pay... or else, but our politicians can and do not only give us 2 more years to pay, they actually give us another TV, that we can pay for.... later!
Both parties do this; it is killing our country and that's why I won't lay 100 % of the blame on Obama or Bush, R's or D's and why I not 100 % on board with R's.
Michael
In reply to Michael Casler, NO!!! I will not ever back down or compromise with the evil Republicans and or any form of their sympathizing element.
Look at the Republican comments splattered all over these discussion rooms calling my President, and my "Commander-in-Chief" names like "Osama Obama" and many other degrading names. I know firsthand what Republicans are about. It's not only about politics; it's about an Afro-American being in the White House as President. Republican businessmen are willing to risk the entire economic stability of the United States in hording billions of dollars in profits in an attempt to strangulate an economic recovery in making President Obama a one termer in the Oval Office. Well Michael, guess what, it's not going to work.
The room moderator can eradicate my comments time and time again. I'm not going anywhere. I'm in this fight against Republicans until the bitter end, or I pass away. Whichever shall come first of the two?
What the Republicans have done to our economy and people in need is unforgiveable and utterly reprehensible. Democrats know how to be capitalists, but they are ethical and moral capitalists. America has defeated economic powers such as Nazi Germany and Japan during WWII. Under President Obama, America is defeating Al-Qaeda. And once again, America will defeat the economic powerhouse of the evil Republican Party.
So, try to ignore my comments. Try to have my commentaries removed. I'm here, and I'm not leaving until the enemy has been defeated. Upon President Obama being reelected, go ahead Republicans, leave your country. However, the Republicans won't be taking what rightfully belongs to the economy of the United States. The door is open. Leave!!! The United States of America and our economy can and will be rebuilt and in the long run will be better off for it.
In reply to Kepi: thank you. As usual your comments are right on the nose of the target!!!
Kepi,
Read the comment policy and you will understand. The paper wants to promote debate and discussion, not hate filled diatribes and personal attacks, which is exactly what Dipstick and Bradley engage in.
Michael
"Surely you jest Mr. Casler. Dems have done nothing in 4 years to reform and preserve entitlements in the USA."
And the GOP lies continue. The Medicare actuary confirmed that the Affordable Care Act extended the viability of the Medicare program.
"If health reform were fully repealed, as the House of Representatives has voted to do, the Medicare hospital insurance program would become insolvent eight years earlier, in 2016, and the costs of SMI would be significantly higher and rise more rapidly in the years ahead."
WITH the Affordable Care Act, the solvency is extended to 2024; and that's assuming only 60% of projected savings are realized.
"GOP, Romney-Ryan, have a plan to save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security from extinction by 2030"
The problem is, Romney-Ryan's "plans" are rabidly unpopular, and would change benefits for current seniors, even though they've sworn they won't.
"By overturning the Affordable Care Act, Romney will restore major spending commitments to [Medicare] -- billions of dollars worth of higher reimbursements for private insurance companies and hospitals that Obama cut out of the program."
"Because Medicare is built upon a trust fund accounting system, that commitment -- $700 billion over the next 10 years -- will deplete the program's existing finances and hasten its insolvency by years. In 2016, under Romney's plan, Medicare will be out of money, and he and Congress will likely have to choose between finding other savings in the program, raising Medicare taxes, abruptly slashing benefits for current seniors, or a combination thereof. "
Let's also remember that CouponCare and privatizing Social Security are both very, very unpopular.
It's called the Great Recession for a reason.
What's different about this downturn from others? The collasped housing market. In 2006-2007 homeowners were rudely awakened to the fact that their home equity piggy bank was filled with worthless paper wealth instead of cold, hard cash and it many instances they'd already spent that money that didn't exist.
Recovering from this recession/depression will take a coordinated effort from everyone but instead, we have political ideologes fixated on things like legitimate rape or the president's birthplace.
Polls show that most believe the GOP does not want a recovery while Obama is president and that they have been working to prevent one, using gridlock and obstructionism to an extent never seen before.
Michael C.
I have read the Full Comments Policy. In fact, I have not only read it several times I read it again yesterday afternoon.
I disagree with you regarding Bradley's comments.
In reply to "SickOfSomeOfU"; what perfect comments and a perfect screen name for this discussion room. When it comes to Republicans and their economic conspiracy against America, I'm just sick of them too!
Spesking of off topic,has anyone taken notice that both parties have spoken half truth's about one another so far during this campaign for president.What ever happened to subject matter for the real issues at stake in our country.Taking half statements and trying to make voter's beleive something else was meant, is beyond me.Perhaps the letter writer is correct in saying both parties need a kick in the pants.
Michael:
I agree with your comment on the quality
of debate. Tough debate is ok. Personal attacks and nasty comments are not.
Oh my goodness!!! Can anyone believe the above entry???
Now that is a comment that was wrote by one who has the nerve to accuse another of being guilty of personal attacks when that is their first mode of response to others who oppose him on political or economic views!!!
Wow!!! The height of Republican hypocrisy!!!
Of all the ideas for turning this broken economy around, the one that will most certainly fail is Romney/Ryan's plan to give even more tax cuts to the top 2%. It's an outrageous proposition after over ten years of Bush's trickledown voodoo experiment that failed miserably.
Willard Romney already benefits from the 13% (or less) tax rate on his $21M no-work-required income. He already keeps a fortune stashed in offshore tax shelters. He already has mysteriously amassed a $100M 401K retirement account, one which supposedly allows for contributions of only $6000 annually.
How much more does that sleazebag deserve before his and other one percenters me-first mentality crosses the line into traitorous territory? We don't have that answer yet but if the R ticket wins the WH we'll find out in a hurry.
I agree with Michael and Bob. Debate the topic. Personal attacks and stating opinion as fact makes this comment section less enjoyable to read.
We have proof that the Republicans decided to vote against Obama and the Democrats no matter what they did in a time of national crisis. And yet you self-proclaimed moderates will vote for them.
http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the...
Read the book.
Mr. Casler:
Ben Franklin said, and I agree: He who is good at making excuses, is seldom good for anything else.
Fits the current president and admin perfectly.
"Private sector is doing just fine." July 9, 2012
"If you have a successful business, you didn't build that." July 13, 2012
And in 2009, and 2010, to justify extending the Bush tax cuts, Obama said with GDP at 2 percent we could not raise taxes on any in the US.
And now with GDP at 1 percent and going negative, it's okay to raise taxes on those making $200,000 and more.
Not to mention that in Feb 2009, Obama told Matt Lauer if he didn't turn the economy around in 3 years, he deserved to be a one term president. I agree and hold him accountable to his standard.
CarmineD
Victor,
R's have tried to stop a lot of what President Obama wanted to do and they do want him to be a one term President. But what you fail to acknowledge is that for at least some Moderates, what Obama wanted to do and has done are things they don't agree with.
Michael
"And the GOP lies continue. The Medicare actuary confirmed that the Affordable Care Act extended the viability of the Medicare program."
Now surely you jest, sir.
From the Medicare Trustee:
"Strong Likelihood" That Obamacare's Medicare Cuts and IPAB "Will Not Be Viable In The Long Range"
"Further, while the Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook, there is a strong likelihood that certain of these changes will not be viable in the long range. Specifically, the annual price updates for most categories of non-physician health services will be adjusted downward each year by the growth in economy-wide productivity. The best available evidence indicates that most health care providers cannot improve their productivity to this degree--or even approach such a level--as a result of the labor-intensive nature of these services."
CarmineD
"But what you fail to acknowledge is that for at least some Moderates, what Obama wanted to do and has done are things they don't agree with.
Michael"
Too bad the first African-American president turned out to be likely the worst.
He and Biden will lose. Romney-Ryan will get 318 electoral votes and carry all the swing states winning 53 percent of the popular vote.
CarmineD
Carmine,
I understand you don't support and will not vote for President Obama. Fine. I get that. Let's take what you say and talk about it.
"Private sector is doing just fine." July 9, 2012 - Obviously a foolish statement and flat wrong. Although in artfully said Obama was saying the private sector was doing fine in relation to the public sector. Still a foolish comment.
"If you have a successful business, you didn't build that." July 13, 2012 - If you listened to the entire context, it can be reasonably argued that Obama was saying that small businesses did not build roads and bridges, schools, etc and those were needed before businesses could start and be successful. He's still wrong in that Americans pay taxes to build roads, schools and bridges, but it's also true that R's intentionally took that statement out of context and ran with it.
And in 2009, and 2010, to justify extending the Bush tax cuts, Obama said with GDP at 2 percent we could not raise taxes on any in the US. And now with GDP at 1 percent and going negative, it's okay to raise taxes on those making $200,000 and more. - That statement is a real problem for him in his argument about taxing the wealthy. No good defense here.
in Feb 2009, Obama told Matt Lauer if he didn't turn the economy around in 3 years, he deserved to be a one term president. - That's a problem for him too. It was a foolish and arrogant statement by an inexperienced President.
Carmine... the guy doesn't deserve to be re-elected. We agree on that. I work real hard to be fair and what I just said above is fair. I'm not going to vote for the guy and will support Romney/Ryan... as long as it turns out that Romney really isn't a tax cheat, a felon, or a murderer.
Michael
Seniors in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Virginia and Nevada stand to lose their Medicare Advantage plans because of Obama raiding the Medicare Trust Fund by $716B to pay for Obamacare. They will vote for Romney Ryan. Independents already are against Obamacare by an overwhelming majority. Two voting constituencies Obama-Biden lose Nov 6. Among others.
CarmineD
"From the Medicare Trustee:"
Now surely you jest sir.
You took three lines of text out of a 279 page report.
Did you bother to look up what you pasted?
It's listed under "STATEMENT OF ACTUARIAL OPINION."
While you reply on opinion, the FACT is that that same actuary stated in the report that absent the medicare payment reductions found in the ACA, the FHIT fund would be bankrupt in 2016. With those savings, the program's expected solvency moves to 2024. And that date is based on the assumption that only 60% of the anticipated savings would be realized.
The repeal of the ACA, which Romney-Ryan supports, speeds up the bankruptcy of the FHIT fund of Medicare, and puts the drop dead date at 2016. Romney-Ryan actively advocate for a plan which would bankrupt that section of Medicare before the end of Romney's first term.
That's why when they tell you that they wouldn't change benefits for current seniors, your BS detector should be going off. The ACA closes the Medicare prescription drug loophole. When Romney-Ryan repeals it, millions of seniors would fall right back into the hole, paying, on average, hundreds more per month. The free preventative care they're allowed under the ACA? GONE.
These are facts, and they're the plans of the ticket your promote. Maybe you should understand what they're proposing before you comment.
Carmine continues the fraud:
"Seniors in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Virginia and Nevada stand to lose their Medicare Advantage plans because of Obama raiding the Medicare Trust Fund by $716B to pay for Obamacare."
FALSE, says Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...
In an interview on the CBS program 60 Minutes, Mitt Romney said Obama "robbed Medicare" of $716 billion to pay for "Obamacare." We found that exaggerated what Obama had done in the health care law.
While the health care law reduces the amount of future spending growth in Medicare, the law doesn't actually cut Medicare. Savings come from reducing money that goes to private insurers who provide Medicare Advantage programs, among other things. The money wasn't "robbed." We rated the statement Mostly False.
Responding to the Romney attack, Obama campaign spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said Ryan's budget relies on the same $700 billion in savings from Medicare that Mitt Romney and other Republicans have been attacking Democrats about.
Ryan has confirmed that, and we rated it True.
Carmine caught lying again.
Carmine,
I do find it tragic that the first African American President was not better prepared for the job, inherited about the worst economy imaginable and that he wants to transform America in ways many Americans don't agree with.
That said, a 'fair' look at any electoral map where about 38 of 50 states are 'locked' as either R or D states says Romney/Ryan is anything but a sure thing. Romney/Ryan trail in several swing states, plus the fact that Romney/Ryan just about have to win Florida to give them a chance and that Florida has many seniors who want Medicare left alone and believe Obama will save it.
Michael
Tough debate for many republicans is a discussion between 2 or more republicans. Like the republican primary?
Kevin,
There is so much 'spin' on both sides, all our heads should be spinning. Arguing that reducing future spending increases is not really a cut is as bad as arguing that reducing the growth of government spending is actually a cut, as D's and R's often do. Please spare me.
Medicare Advantage pays much of the 20 % that Medicare doesn't cover. Does anyone really believe there will be no negative effects when reducing the amount that is paid to doctor's and hospitals under Medicare Advantage. Again, please spare me.
Your claim about Medicare going broke in 2016 under the Romney/Plan assumes they do nothing. That's not what they propose.
You do expose the R hypocracy about the cuts in Medicare because they are included in the Ryan budget, but it would be nice if you were as diligent about pointing out the 'smoke and mirrors' in the Presidents plans and budgets as you are in doing so to the other side.
The truth is that both sides are providing very poor plans when you stand them up against the real issues we face.
Michael
PART I
Michael Casler,
"Sucked it up" is hardly an appropriate term for what everyone had to do in the Great Depression. Read, "The Grapes of Wrath," by John Steinbeck.
You are right, the Republicans, or CONseratives whichever you prefer, have no plan, except the cuts for the wealthy, while stealing that same money from the poor and elderly.
President Barack Obama through his stimulus saved us from a worse recession, which as you know began in 2007. Republicans voted against the stimulus, but could not wait to get their hands on the money so they could look like heroes in their state. A good example is Paul Ryan. For those who do not know, please Search on the terms: Paul Ryan and the Stimulus, Ryan accepts stimulus money, Paul Ryan request stimulus money.
Hypocrisy has no boundaries within the Republican Party, now replaced by the Tea Party. Decent Republicans are retiring and/or not running again because of this new Tea Party that has come into play.
https://www.google.com/search?q=paul+rya...
President Barack Obama put forward a Jobs bill. Republicans were not interested in Jobs and are still not interested in jobs. Jobs drive the economy; however, the Republicans refuse to support the president in his quest to create jobs and repair our $3 trillion dollar infrastructure maintenance issues/concerns. The Republican Party: Sabotage the American Worker ~ Sabotage the American People? Why would anyone develop a tactical calculated plan just to make the president look bad? Power and wealth? The Republican Party is not interested in the American Worker, children, elderly, or veterans. Their sole goal and objective is/was to ensure the president failed at every attempt toward helping the American People. The Republicans only objective was to ensure President Barack Obama was a one-term president at any cost! At our cost! At the cost of the American People!!!!!
President Obama passed the Affordable Care Act (ACA) to address the outlandish costs of healthcare caused by the health insurance industry. This plan modeled after Romney's plan, but the Republican Party criticized it from the beginning even though millions of people will benefit and lives would be saved. Because of ACA everyone is saving on preventive care; including Seniors who are saving not only on preventive care, but prescription drugs as well. Check out www.healthcare.gov or www.hhs.gov or www.medicarefacts.com or www.whitehouse.gov or www.barackobama.com or http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/r...
We had 29 consecutive months of job growth while Republican Governors laid off 750,000 government workers keeping the unemployment numbers high. Part of the overall Republican agenda?
PART II
Michael Casler,
The Republican Party agenda has been and still is about abortion and attacking women's rights and women's healthcare issues. Why would any decent human being deny women access to preventative care ~ part of the overall Republican agenda?
The Republican Party has been busy doing absolutely nothing! What we have learned is that they can say NO, but that is about the extent of their commitment to the American People! NO! NO! NO!
The Democrats are the only political party who is desperately trying to work on solutions for the American People. The Republican Party is desperately trying to BUY an election.
Perhaps one could assume that the Republican Party knows that the American People realize they have operated as the Obstructionist Party and as a result, the American People have suffered. So, to ensure they can continue operating in the same manner, the Republican Party has collectively decided to make it difficult for many poor, elderly, and minority American citizens the right to cast their vote. What decent human being would do that ~ part of the overall Republican agenda?
Stop trying to blame both parties. Stop trying to play referee. Stop pretending to be fair and balanced, your attempts to be neutral are unsuccessful; everyone knows where your loyalties lie. There is only one candidate that genuinely cares about the American People and that is President Barack Obama. He can identify with and relate to the problems that Americans are facing today and will do what it takes to help us get out of this mess that was created by the Republican Party.
Then you have a candidate, who is primarily interested in the richest Americans; none of which are commenting here. That candidate is an elitist and focused, dedicated, and committed to helping the richest people in our country and his name is Willard Romney.
There is nothing wrong with being rich and powerful, but to be the President of the United States of American you must be able to identify with all income levels; not just your own.
Do you ever wonder what the rich and powerful promise each other if the other succeeds?
Also, I think it is rather odd that you write a letter and then engage in a marathon debate about your own letter. I do not believe I have ever seen anyone else do that; except you. Bob Jack just got one of his letters printed and I do not think he commented. I would be willing to bet that he would have loved to debate his position(s), but elected to just read the posts. As you know, I am relatively new at this, but I just think it is a tad weird that you engage and debate your own letter.
My assumption is that you really like to debate. Did you flag Bradley? Future?
Just my opinion; nothing more; nothing less.
Houstonjac,
Do you see the exodus of the wealthy Americans as a patriotic thing to do? Are they putting personal wealth above country?
"Arguing that reducing future spending increases is not really a cut is as bad as arguing that reducing the growth of government spending is actually a cut, as D's and R's often do."
No, it's not. Reducing future spending increases AND reducing the growth of government spending has a very real effect on budgets, the budget deficit and the debt. Sorry for the reality check.
"Please spare me."
Clutch those pearls.
"Does anyone really believe there will be no negative effects when reducing the amount that is paid to doctor's and hospitals under Medicare Advantage"
You were very concerned with the reduction to Medicare Advantage as it applied to the Affordable Care Act under Obama, yet didn't say a peep about the Ryan budget, which contained the same "cuts" or "reductions in future spending." I had to point it out to you. Then, suddenly, you were concerned.
"Your claim about Medicare going broke in 2016 under the Romney/Plan assumes they do nothing. That's not what they propose."
They've promised that benefits to anyone under the age of 55 WILL NOT CHANGE. That means everyone who's in the system, and everyone coming into the system by 2016 will see NO DIFFERENCE in Medicare. If Medicare stays the same, as they've proposed, it goes bankrupt in 2016.
So either Romney-Ryan are lying about effects to current Medicare participants, or their lying about increasing taxes.
They've proposed NO CHANGE to Medicare benefits between now and 2016. Since you know what they propose, you should know that.
Again, spare me.
Antigov: "Tough debate for many republicans is a discussion between 2 or more republicans. Like the republican primary?"
Seriously! Look no further than the abortion timebomb they've been lobbing around this week. Is rape "legitimate" or "illegitimate?"
Should rape victims be forced to carry their attackers' children to term? The GOP platform says YES. Paul Ryan's entire legislative history on abortion says YES. Mitt Romney's previous statements say YES.
Yet suddenly, when their positions are exposed, they flee, abandoning their previous statements (or decade plus of legislative history) and directly contradict themselves.
Yesterday, Paul Ryan said "rape is rape." But he co-sponsored legislation as soon as last YEAR that said otherwise. When challenged on it, he said that Romney was the top of the ticket, but that he was PROUD of his "pro-life record." Uh, buddy, your "pro-life record" says that not all rapes are actually rapes.
We saw the same thing when Ryan was chosen as the Veep. First Romney said they were running on Romney's economic plan... implying that plan was different than Ryan's. Then Romney and Ryan's plans were "pretty similar." Then Romney surrogates were on television declaring them "completely different" and finally Romney said they were "practically identical."
Watching the GOP attempt ideological consistency is better than watching Benny Hill.
Kepi,
That is a very long letter and I disagree with much of it. First, I have never flagged anyone and Yes, I do enjoy debate.
I have said and will say again the R's should just shut up about social issues such as Gay marriage and abortion. The country is moving toward the Progressive views on these and other issues. I have no problem with gays marrying and I support the right to choose.
However, I think the country is moving conservative economically and I think the D's will fight this to the very end.
To argue that D's or R's, for the most part, want to hurt the country, is idiotic in my opinion. Neither party, nor most in them wants to do anything of the sort. Our system is very corrupted so we get very flawed legislation out of Congress.
For example, our health care and insurance system is a disaster. No honest person can argue that. The ACA is very poor legislation as an attempt to deal with it. Why? Because once President Obama, in what I believe was a sincere effort at reform, handed to details to Congress, the special interests with lobbyists used their influence to keep and even advance their positions. As soon as that was allowed, the legislation never had a chance to be anything but poor.
Health Care practitioners, big pharma and insurance companies ARE the reason care is so expensive here. The ACA handed the insurance companies 30 million new customers and asked very little of them in return. Big pharma got to keep the prohibition of re-importing drugs into the US at lower costs and little was also asked of health care practitioners. If those three players were rewarded instead of asked to make changes, the result wasn't going to be good.
Argue all you want about the details and the valid fact that the R's offered nothing, and the law is still poor legislation that will most likely create as many problems as it solves.
The Deficit and the Debt... amazing.... We are going to have to tax everyone more and have the government spend less if we are ever going to get a balanced budget and pay down the debt. Do you see a coherent plan to do that? I don't.
Believe what you like and by all means support the party you believe in. I will do the same. I think the difference between me and you and me and most others is that I recognize the huge flaws in both parties so my commitment to the R's is not strong (3rd party, please come along) and I am highly disappointed in them. It's the old adage - the better of two bad choices.
I firmly believe that no matter who wins this November, financial destruction awaits us.
Michael
Yeah!!! Yeah !!! Yeah !!! Great job on posting, "Kepi", "SickOfSomeOfU", "Anitgov", "Ksand99" and all the other Democratic supporters. Keep taking it to these Republicans!!! We got them on the run. Look at their responses; they are reaching desperation levels.
To paraphrase the President; Just don't boo the Republicans, vote against them.
Comment removed by moderator. The main topic deals with the economic environment. It is not about a person's religious beliefs.
RefNV and Bob,
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate the support. I like to debate the issues. I am not interested in attacking anyone or their views.
I am sorry Bradley and a few others feel differently, but most here are respectful of others and their views, even if they disagree. That said, Bradley has a right to act and feel as he does, although I am not bothered a bit when his letters are rejected by the moderator.
Kepi says he doesn't 'understand' the rejections, but what I think he means is that he doesn't 'agree' with them. If one reads the rules, it is easy to understand why Dennis, Bradley and others sometimes have their letters rejected by the moderator.
What I find most frustrating is my belief that if any party gets control of the government, it will only be for a short while. If you completely demonize and hate the opposition, how do you ever reach a compromise to get anything done? I always argue for voting as you like, but if both sides left the venom at home, we'd all be better for it.
Michael
Comment removed by moderator. refers to removed comment.
This is absolutely negative in all areas of your commentaries, Michael Casler. The venom is the Republican Party. The savior of our country both financially and morally is the Democratic Party. We are the political party who cherishes the rights of all Americans afforded by the Constitution. However, we will not tolerate plans and or acts of conspiracy to weaken and or overthrown the country that we love so much.
Say goodbye to the poison of the Republican Party on Election Day.
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
What do Republican/TEA Party voters expect from a Republican Victory?
Well, if you are a wealthy Republican voter, let's say at least $250K a year plus, you should expect more tax cuts, more loopholes in the tax code, no more capital gains tax, no more estate tax, more avenues to hide money off-shore, maybe no taxes at all. Yippee!
If you are a well-to-do Middle Class voter who has pretty much everything you need and made it this far without any government and/or other means of assistance, you probably do not want the needy and elderly to have any assistance. Perhaps because you believe that you did not ask for help so why should they ask or receive assistance. I would suspect that you really believe that everyone should be like you. And if income levels below you cannot help themselves, well, "Let Them Eat Cake". Oops, I forgot to mention that under a Republican Administration your taxes are going to go up. OH NO!
Our tax breaks will disappear, our Medicare will become a voucher and Social Security privatized in time. ACA may be repealed so people with a pre-existing condition will not receive medical insurance in this country; unless you receive it from your employer, which could easily become Catastrophic type insurance. Casler and I who are self-insured; our premiums will sky rocket and become unaffordable. I thought $800. Plus per month was high. I suspect it would be somewhere in the $1,200 range per month. My husband's Medicare Advantage program, if available, will be extremely expensive provided he can qualify with a pre-existing condition.
If you are anywhere below the above two categories, what do you think you are going to get from a Republican Administration? The answer is simple; you will get nothing, but grief and sorrow. You will regret your decision and your problems/concerns will not matter. The Republican Party that you support will tell you to seek assistance from the church, family, or neighbors. The above two categories, well, they really do not care about you anyway: the wealthy does not know you exist; the well-to-do Middle Class will dismiss you because you should have planned for this unplanned situation you are in. Oh, and by the way, your taxes are going to go up along with the Middle Class folk. OH S@#$! Sorry, but you will share the burden with the ole Middle Class folk.
So, why in the world would anyone earning less than $250K a year vote for a Republican? I will bet no one can answer that question?
And for those folks in the Middle Class below the $250K mark, if you think for one moment that the income levels above you care about you; you are sadly mistaken! Sadly, you will find out that the people you fought so hard for don't care about you. You are the "Common Folk" we are the "Little People". There are many levels of income and each class for whatever reason does not really care about the class below them.
Michael Casler Aug. 23, 2012 2:58 p.m.
RefNV and Bob,
Kepi says he doesn't 'understand' the rejections, but what I think he means is that he doesn't 'agree' with them. If one reads the rules, it is easy to understand why Dennis, Bradley and others sometimes have their letters rejected by the moderator.
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Michael if you call me a HE again, I will personally FLAG you. You read the comments and you KNOW I am a woman. You are sneaky little guy aren't you? I will repeat myself to you once again. Apparently, you did not get it the first time! I have read the Full Comments Policy!! I will say it AGAIN! I have read the Full Comments Policy. And I am not a bird (e.g. a parrot like Boehner who can only say NO) I can speak for myself. I do not need you to think for me or attempt to make assumptions based on what you THINK I meant or said. I thought I made myself clear. I NEVER SAID I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE MODERATOR! I have seen comments that I felt should have been removed; I FLAGGED them and they were not removed. I and I repeat I did not see Bradley's comments; nor did I see Future's comments.
What I said was "I see that Bradley was removed; I used to wonder why Dipstick was removed. I would read his comment; attempt to reply and poof it was gone. I suppose I will never understand why some comments are removed and some are not."
If you wish to carry on a conversation about me, I would appreciate it if you communicate with your friends via EMAIL.
good job sick you know your doing good when their censuring you, Whose the censure dave berns or chuck muth ?
kepi,
You ask why anyone making less than $250k/yr would vote Republican. The answer in its simple, those people generally subscribe to the belief that they can better decide how to spend their money than the government can on matters not pertaining to security or basic infrastructure. That is part of the fundamental divide between Democrats and Republicans and what is generally meant by "smaller" government.
You mention that higher classes don't seem care for lower classes, at any level. There are some studies on charitable giving compared to political affiliation that indicate that conservatives are more generous with private charity than liberals are, and further, that religious affiliation is not the main factor.
This is again in line with a fundamental divide between Republicans and Democrats when it comes to taking personal responsibility for ones own well-being.
My own belief is that government should legislate justice, not morality. An example of this is my support for gay rights and Roe v. Wade. Those are moral issues that don't belong in the government realm. By the same principle, I don't think that providing an equal standard of living to those whose only claim is "it is the moral thing to do" is a legitimate function of government or use of tax dollars.
The rich that Michael wonders about might well be in for a surprise. I have often compared our present environment to that of the Roman Empire in its declining years. I am beginning to think it is transitioning to the French Revolution (which resembles ours in name only.)
The Democrats' plan seems to be to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. The Republican plan seems to be to just stop laying eggs if possible.
Either way, no more golden eggs.
Michael,
During Obama's inauguration secret meetings were held to plan an organized effort not to work with him at all. That is a fact! Even before he attempted to enact policy we heard, "I hope he fails!" and "We will make him a one term president!" I'll agree there are some policies the Democrats won't negotiate, but honestly, Republcans rarely voted to work with Dems and that is another fact. They've held the economy hostage and downgraded our Triple A rating, hoping it will return them to the White House. You can't lay equal blame on both parties when one party resisted any attempts to compromise and became the "Party of No."
Boftx,
Have I ever mentioned to you that I am not a Democrat; I am a NP and my husband is an Independent.
My husband and I have always given a lot to charity and causes and to this day, we do what we can to help. I did not see the study, but I think people in general are either givers or takers. I like to give.
I think we would probably agree more than disagree on many issues. I do support smaller government and personal responsibility.
My primary concerns are healthcare, Medicare, and Social Security.
I have had excellent healthcare coverage for over 30 years without a break in coverage. So, it was never a concern until I became self insured; that is when I started researching and paying attention to health insurance companies and their practices.
I was glad to hear about the job. Interesting about the offers that followed. Good for you.
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate and respect your opinion.
Have a wonderful evening.
Romney's Great Medicare Lie:
http://www.examiner.com/article/romney-s...
More Links for your review:
http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team/en...
http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team/en...
http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team/
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
"Did you bother to look up what you pasted?
It's listed under "STATEMENT OF ACTUARIAL OPINION."
They go hand in hand sir. One report, joint effort. Both trustees and actuaries contribute. I quoted the excerpt verbatim. Nothing taken out of context except your interpretation of the report.
"The Boards of Trustees for Medicare (also Boards) report annually to the Congress on the financial operations and actuarial status of the program. Beginning in 2002, there is one combined report discussing both the Hospital Insurance program (Medicare Part A) and the Supplementary Medical Insurance program (Medicare Part B and Prescription Drug Coverage). The Office of the Actuary in the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) prepares the report under the direction of the Boards."
CarmineD
"FALSE, says Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...
Yes and No. The cuts [savings as they are euphemistically called by Obama] are accumulated over a 10 year period starting in 2012. They are reductions in Medicare expenses compiled from reduced services, reduced benefits, and reduced recipients. The $716B goes to fund Obamacare. It's not taken at one time but over a period of time[specifiaclly 10 years]. 10 years is the maximum that CBO uses because it believes beyond that time the suppositions are no longer valid.
CarmineD
Vernos,
I have never denied that there has been a concerted effort not to work with Obama and the D's, by quite a few, but not all of the R's. That's a fact and I accept it and I don't like it.
I think the R's should have compromised with Obama and the D's more than they have. But I have large problems with the agenda and what I believe to be the philosophy of President Obama.
Let's review. From 2004 to 2008, Bush and the R's spent a huge amount of money and didn't recoup much of it in taxes. Obama is elected and he spends a ton more to save GM, Chrysler and the banks. Fine, I hated it but I felt he had to do it. Obama did that but he did it poorly.... killing the bond holders and rewarding the labor unions in an unfair manner. Neither of those groups should have been favored and one was. Then he bailed out the banks but got almost nothing in return for doing it and then his Justice Department doesn't prosecute anyone.
Then he uses a political hammer on the R's and passes the ACA. He hands it off to Pelosi and Reid and they allow themselves to be completely eviscerated by the lobbyists for big pharma, health insurance companies and health care providers. The result is a huge lost opportunity and an expensive and poorly written bill.
Then the stimulus, where way too much of the money did not go to create shovel ready jobs in the public or private sector, but was instead used to maintain salaries, Raises and benefits for workers at state and local levels. He even is so foolish to laugh when reporting that shovel ready jobs were not shovel ready.
And through all of this spending, the best he can do is call for more taxes on the wealthy and business, no real action on entitlements and now wants another 1 trillion dollar stimulus. On top of this he says nothing when the Senate just stops submitting budgets and then he submits at least two that can't get any D votes.
Did R's cause all this carnage. No they didn't. Could he have done more with cooperation of the R's? Yes. Should they have co-operated more? Yes.
But the following has to be recognized. He had almost full power for 2 years out of 4 and look what he choose to do and not do. It has to make one wonder what he would have done with more cooperation from R's and what he will do with 4 more years.
Vernos, I am willing to criticize the R's for what they've done, but the fact remains that the results of 4 years of Obama have been pretty bad... and not all that can be fairly layed at the feet of the R's.
I know you disagree and I respect you and your views but I simply cannot share them. Obama wants to take the country in a direction I don't want to see it go. We need to elect someone else to lead us. Am I overjoyed it's Romney? No. Do I believe that both Romney and Obama can surely preside over the further decline of America if they do not aggressively attack spending and taxes? Yes I do.
Michael
Boftx,
Excellent analysis. You see the flaws in what both parties have proposed. So many people on both sides seem to 'actually fear' criticizing their party of choice, when in fact that is exactly what we all should be doing...if... we wish to have the tough actions we need to take called for an enacted by our government.
Michael
kepi,
You may not be a Democrat, I myself am a Whig but am registered as "Unaffiliated" since that party is not yet organized in Nevada. But I think you would classify yourself as "liberal" or even "progressive." That is impression I get from your comments.
It should be understood that the terms "Democrat" and "liberal" do not mean the same thing, just as "Republican" and "conservative" are not equivalent.
Michael's letter is reaching down deeper than what can be addressed by referring to political parties. In some respects, it is even deeper than broad philosophical terms such as "progressive" or "conservative."
It touches on something that is part of the very roots of a person's being. There is a fundamental difference between someone who needs help to continue to be productive and someone who demands an existence simply because their parents got sloppy. It seems to me that there is a larger number of the latter today than there were in the 30s.
This is demonstrated by the fact that there are so many people who are receiving public assistance who are unwilling to work in the fields or other undesirable jobs for the same amount of money or slightly more.
It is the apparent unwillingness to engage in unpleasant, but productive activity that makes me think that our society has undergone a sea-change and those who are productive, no matter what economic class they fall in, are going to have reason to fear those who are not.
It should also be understood that none of what I am saying applies to those who are physically or mentally unable to care for themselves.
Boftx knows how to articulate his position in a respectful manner!
So opinions, ideas, suggestions, analysis, etc from Boftx is always welcome!
YES, it was an excellent analysis.
Some can learn from Boftx on how to communicate.
Let me close this evening with the following thought:
Former President Bush made several decisions that turned out to be very poor decisions. Even when he made good decisions, often the execution was bungled. He has been rightly criticized for his performance. By the end of his 2nd term, he couldn't have been elected dog catcher.
Look honestly at President Obama's first term and you see many of the same issues. If we don't give Obama a pass because he inherited a recession (so did Bush and then we got hit on 9/11) and we don't give him a pass because R's obstructed, we then must ask ourselves whether we are willing to to use the same yardstick we used to fairly measure Bush's performance, to now measure Obama's performance.
If we do, then he, like Bush before him does not deserve another term. Bush couldn't have had one but Obama can.
Michael
Casler invokes George W. Bush. That's rich.
In November, when Mike goes to the polls, he'll cast his vote for Romney-Ryan.
"Mr. Ryan has been, at best, a loyal politician who voted for everything President George W. Bush wanted, including every law that expanded the size of the federal government and every tax cut that drained its resources and every war that spilled its blood and money, and then opposed everything President Barack Obama wanted even if those policies would shrink the debt, deficit, and the size of government. Only when President Obama and the Democrats come to power did Mr. Ryan return to what may be his honest beliefs and advocate for the radical shrinking of Washington. He has been a consummate politician bent on survival and a radically social conservative one, at that, not a radically libertarian one."
Mike writes a weekly letter to the editor, clamoring for change to the way our country is governed, yet he enables people like Paul Ryan and Sharron Angle by voting for them.
Enablers can only blame the person staring back in the mirror.
"Let me close this evening with the following thought:"
Blah blah blah, I'm just a sensible moderate who voted for the craziest candidate in Nevada history, blah blah blah."
Michael
***
Thank you Michael for imparting your exceptional wisdom on us common partisans. We are eternally grateful and always in your debt.
Ksand99 is all over Paul Ryan because he didn't follow what even Kevin says might be his true beliefs while former President Bush was in office. What a revelation!!!! A politician who votes with his party so he can remain in office.
I don't like that politicians do this but it is reality and I don't generally criticize politicians for being inconsistent. Why? Because the politicians you like are very likely to have done exactly the same thing as politicians you don't like.
Ryan should be judged on what he is saying today... unless you are willing to use the same yardstick to judge politicians you like. Want to find an inconsistent politicians that I suspect Kevin likes? Look no further than our own Harry Reid! If you are going to go back and see if a politician has been consistent, you better look long and hard and expect to come up empty.
This is just one more attempt at backward logic: Draw a conclusion and then only look for things that bolster than conclusion. Very poor reasoning.
Michael
How about this EVERYBODY!
Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling:
"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.
The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds)took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple!
The people demanded it. That was in 1971 - before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc.
Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year
or less to become the law of the land - all because of public pressure.
Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to
a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.
In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.
Congressional Reform Act of 2012
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they're out of office.
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.
Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Don't you think it's time?
THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!
If you agree, pass it on.
It's pretty simple, Mike.
You specifically called out George W. Bush and the bad decisions made during his term.
I noted that you are going to vote for Bush's #1 enabler; a man who says he's conservative but has a voting record which betrays that.
You criticized Obama for "cutting" (yes, you used the very language you now claim to hate) Medicare Advantage, yet the ticket you're voting for in November not only passed a budget which enacts those cuts, but the top of the ticket said he would sign them into law.
You want Obama judged on his record, but Ryan judged on his rhetoric. Do you recognize that?
Obama must be judged on the past three years, but Paul Ryan's record is immaterial? And while you give Ryan a free pass on his record, you want to hold Reid accountable for his record.
I know it strikes a nerve when your rhetoric collapses in on itself, but you have zero consistency here.
Vote for Paul Ryan, who wrote legislation that would cull Medicare Advantage. It's the same as your vote for Sharron Angle, who you claimed would be willing to compromise.
Yes, Mr. "Personal Responsibility" holds Paul Ryan as innocent. What a sham.
You claim to hate the debt and that it's a security issue and the #1 thing Americans should be concerned with, yet you're voting in November for someone who was a blank check for the administration you criticize.
Bailouts, stimulus, wars and massive entitlement expansions... all debt-funded and approved by Paul Ryan.
Why do you hold Obama accountable for his record yet have a complete double-standard for Paul Ryan?
GOP hypocrisy at it's best.
I truly hope the rich and powerful Republicans follow through on their financial and industrial threats and leave the country after President Obama is reelected as President. It would be quite fair to say that all these so-called Americans should begin pre-packing right now.
Financially and economically, as a country, we will survive. More than likely, the survival will be much easier to endure than expected. For, the true poison will be gone; eliminated. Yes, please do, leave the country. This really makes me look forward to this election. I can't wait to cast my vote for President Obama and every other Democratic candidate for political office. I want to do my part in effectuating this exodus of Republicans from our country more than anybody else could possibly realize. I don't care where these Republicans go; just as long as they are gone, and stay gone. Each Republican, make sure you renounce your American citizenship status as well. I assure each of you Republicans; your departure can only bring jubilation on the part of every Democrat.
Honestly, I think that most of the comments from both democrat and republican partisans here lack some degree of insight.
Both Bush and Obama, and their financial advisors and government entities were and have been at work trying to deal with both a national and global economic crisis.
It doesn't rest on one man's shoulders, or one party. To think so is very shortsighted and shows a lack of understanding of the complexity of the politics and problems and how governments and economies operate, plus how they are interrelated.
Also, as far as the US goes, the Congress has a good deal of culpability in it's obstructionism and intransigence.
This is a long term process, and many changes can take place globally before we begin to see the light of day.
Even now, Europe is considering move to including growth in its formula, as the US recommended. Euro bonds are also under consideration, something the US did earlier.
If any of those commenting think they have the solution for the world, please present your solution, and send it to the various governments in the world. You might get credit for saving the global economies.
Here are a few links for those interested in timelines and other information for review, both nationally and globally, related to the events of the global crisis, and more. Sometimes memories are short, especially during an election year.
National:
http://timeline.stlouisfed.org/
http://libraryguides.law.pace.edu/financ...
Global:
http://www.cfr.org/economics/timeline-gl...
http://www.weforum.org/
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!
After the republican party created the WORST
ECONOMY in our lifetime, Michael Casler said that
he will vote for these same republican clowns.
WOW!
We already gave republicans a kick in the pants.
We booted them out of the White House and for
good reason.
Greedy republicans sent all of our jobs to
COMMUNIST CHINA.
Republicans lied us into two wars and even worse,
didn't pay for them.
Then created the bush tax cuts that further
ruined our economy.
And now, Romney/Ryan will lower the bush tax cuts
EVEN MORE. for their rich friends.
Are you kidding us Michael?
You and other republicans talk against our great
president but don't give us any reasons why you
support Romney/Ryan.
Are you against abortion?
Romney/Ryan are.
Are you against repoductive rights for women?
Romney/ryan are.
Do you want to steal health care from your
fellow Americans?
Romney/ryan will.
Do you want to privatize Medicare with vouchers
that will destroy the Medicare program?
Romney/ryan will.
Do you want to privatize Social Security?
That's the republican plan.
YES Michael, Romney/ryan ARE WORSE THAN BUSH.
For the rest of their campaign, Romney/ryan
should wear MICKEY MOUSE HATS WITH BIG MOUSE EARS.
The Romney/ryan plan is a MICKEY MOUSE PLAN.
The Romney/ryan plan stinks to high Heaven.
FOUR MORE YEARS FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!
Speaking out to the Las Vegas Sun as a part of our business industry, it was a sad day in this discussion room. Open and free discussion arising from related topics originating from that of this letter to the editor was restricted.
I think I now know the real reason Jon Ralston left the Las Vegas Sun. But, as the old saying goes, when one door closes, another door opens. This is exactly how the country will survive financially and economically when the Republican business sector departs the USA.
Mr. Ralston desires to open his own independent political internet discussion room. I look forward to this new forum.
Maybe the Las Vegas Sun will decide after the election to close up shop and move away also. I have read that the upper echelon of the Las Vegas Sun is very fond of Communist Cuba. Now, there is an option.
SickOfSomeOfU......
Goood comments.
These republicans flood these pages with support
for the same republican party that destroyed our
middle class and economy.
They have learned NOTHING from the damage.
They say they are not rich but they still vote
for the party that only cares about the rich.
Sounds like some of them have some loose screws.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
Kevin.....
Great job in setting Michael and Carmine straight
with the facts.
And Michael......
Do you even wonder why Bush and Sarah Palin are
banned from the republican convention?
An eight year president not allowed to talk at
this huge republican convention?
WOW! THAT SAYS IT ALL!
Great comments "teamster". I am so proud of you, and so is the entire population of Democrats.
Romney/ryan want to cut 20% from education
funding.
Another hair-brained republican plan.
And the new republican platform.....
NO ABORTION, for any reason, even in rape.
On this, Romney says he doesn't agree with his
republican leaders, for now, anyway.
NEVER TRUST REPUBLICANS!
BChap.....
I am proud of you, also.
Please keep up your good comments.
This election is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION
in our lifetime.
But I don't want THE SUN to close up shop.
But I would like to see the SUN on the front page
and the RJ on the back page.
DEMOCRATS are the majority in this country, not
republicans.
As it should be and always will be.
While you Obama fans are kissing his feet and patting yourselves on each others' backs, what does this say about your leader's $6400 myth on Romney-Ryan's Medicare plan. Don't all answer at the same time. Plenty of time to do so.
CarmineD
boftx Aug. 23, 2012 6:58 p.m.
Thank you so much for your excellent comment.
By the way, I rarely read Michael Casler posts. I question his agenda. We all know where Michael Caster's
loyalties are and that is with the Republican Party and I believe I saw in a post that he was voting Romney/Ryan. So, I don't understand why he tries to act like a referee.
Thank you again
Wow, what a long evening....But, thanks to LastThroes, Sick of Some, Kevin KS99, Bradley, and Teamster, hope I didn't miss anyone... Wonderful Comments..
You guys along with others are so awesome thank you so much for sharing your comments and standing up for what you believe in.
Sick of Some,
Good Morning,
Ignore Casler; he does not matter. Casler's responses to me have not been well intended; in my opinion. So do not give it another thought that he has not responded to you. You do not need Casler to respond to you. In fact, we should all just not engage with them.
How many times have I mentioned my husband? Caslter calls me he (p.s. I was removed for that and I didn't know the person was a male). A "Gentleman" would have apologized, but Casler did not. He does not matter. Keep up the good work. I think he is broadcasting in an effort to persuade. Who knows? Who cares? Dismiss him!
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By kepi, you have changed somewhat,I see a new woman who is not to be bullied any longer. You also seem to not let things bother you as you once did.Keep up your good posts, and your inner strength has appeared and will remain forever. I think most of use truly enjoy what you have to say,even some of your critics.Have a great day today and every day.
In reply to the Las Vegas Sun Room Moderators; thank you for your explanation in removing a portion of my posts. Now that much of the dust has settled from an extremely contentious debate, I admit that many times I push the envelope of the rules of the room discussion. I also acknowledge exceeding those rules, on occasion. I sincerely apologize for this. I know this makes your judgment in whether to remove or not a difficult choice.
On a lighter note, in, as well, removing two of Mr. Casler's comments as being "Off Topic", this was the first time I have ever seen the author of a letter to the editor be removed in their discussion room comments as being "Off Topic". To me, that was absolutely hilarious, and provided a lot of levity to the debate.
Thank you for the job all you moderators do day-in and day-out.
Bradley,
I had just started writing a response to Sam, laid down and your message was there when I returned.
And for the first time in days, I had a good laugh. Thank you so much for the laugh. Not feeling well so that was a great moment. Thank you very much. Trying to keep it light today.
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kepi,
I don't really want to go off topic like this, but I think you will be disappointed to know that I do not share your (and others) low opinion of Mr. Casler.
I have had the pleasure of meeting him and I see no reason not to basically take him at his word. He on occasion make mistakes, as do we all. He is even known to admit when he has done so (again, unlike some others here.)
Far from trying to be a referee, he is stating how he sees things. He and I differ to some extent, but our major difference is in what we see is the best way to fix the problems with our political system that we both agree is completely screwed. He basically wants people to vote all the bums out, and replace with new (bums?) from both major parties again.
I say that people should throw off the mindset that there can be only two major parties and set about growing a new party that truly represents the independent/pragmatic view, the Whigs.
Michael is more than capable of presenting and defending his views, but I think the frequency of what are becoming ad-hom attacks is becoming disturbing given he is one of the most polite commenters on this site.
boftx......
A polite republican is still a republican.
When we Democrats see a polite republican continue
to vote for the same lying, heartless republicans
who devistated our middle class and our economy
we tend to come un-glued.
This election is way too important to let polite
republicans STEAL OUR HEALTH CARE AND DEVISTATE
OUR ECONOMY AND MIDDLE CLASS AGAIN.
POLITE REPUBLICANS FOOL NO ONE.
kepi.....You are correct about Casler.
And I enjoy your comments.
Republicans are desperate.
They flood this site with their right-wing spin,
thinking that we forgot who destroyed our economy.
It won't work.
WE'RE KEEPING PRESIDENT OBAMA.
boftx.....
And yes, we DEMOCRATS are passionate about our
great president and our great party.
You should understand that by now.
We can't afford greedy republicans.
teamster,
We can't afford altruistic Democrats.
boftx.....
Republican greed created all of these poor people.
The chickens came home to roost.
Nancy,
I was going back over some comments.
Thank you for passing on Warren Buffets suggestions. It was great to read and I agree too.
I will pass it on.
boftx,
I respect your opinion. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Have a wonderful day.
Teamster,
Thank you. I enjoy your comments as well. Have a wonderful day.