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Tuesday, Oct. 18, 2011 | 2:05 a.m.
"Sir Herkimer's Bone" currently resides at Las Vegas High School. The winner of the Las Vegas vs. Rancho game gets to keep the infamous Herk's Bone.
Prep Sports Now
Should Arbor View have accepted game with Gorman?
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Las Vegas Sun sports reporters Ray Brewer and Case Keefer are back with their weekly high school football podcast. This week's episode plays more like a variety show, as the two touch on a number of issues related to last week's gridiron action.
Related coverage
The third-ranked team in the Sun’s top-10 rankings will be involved in one of the most anticipated games this week.
It’s rivalry week on the local high school gridiron, starting Thursday night when No. 3 Las Vegas High attempts to extend its winning streak against Rancho in the annual Bone Game to 16 straight seasons.
But that is not the only game of interest.
Chaparral travels to Eldorado for the annual Cleat Game, No. 6 Foothill is at Basic in the Battle for Boulder Highway, and Spring Valley and Bonanza play in the Banner Game — a rivalry that typically gets little publicity, but is important to the players at both schools.
Rivalry games give teams having a down season — Chaparral and Eldorado, for instance — something to play for in the final weeks. The players, after all, don’t have to be reminded that you only get to play in these meaningful games a few times during your high school career.
Feel free to let us know which rivalry game you like the best.
Here are the rest of the weekly rankings:
1. Bishop Gorman (8-1): Give Gorman officials credit for scheduling the game with Arbor View this week. Now, the Gaels will get valuable reps in defending the double-wing offense in preparation for likely playing Palo Verde and Arbor View in next month’s playoffs. Up next: Friday vs Arbor View.
2. Palo Verde (8-0): Palo Verde will play on a Friday night for the first time since Sept. 23 when it hosts Faith Lutheran this week. Up next: Friday vs. Faith Lutheran.
3. Las Vegas High (7-0): Las Vegas’ win streak of 15 in the Bone Game against Rancho is making the rivalry irrelevant. That’s a shame. Up next: Thursday in the Bone Game vs. Rancho.
4. Arbor View (7-1): To be the best, you have to beat the best. Arbor View will get that chance Friday night, agreeing to play two-time defending state champion Bishop Gorman this week after Gorman’s game with Western was canceled. Arbor View, unlike most of the local teams that play Gorman, cherishes the opportunity to pull off the upset. Up next: Friday at Bishop Gorman.
5. Liberty (6-1): Liberty hasn’t lost a Southeast Division game since 2009. Not a bad little streak, Patriots. Up next: Friday at Coronado.
6. Foothill (6-1): Foothill last week took care of Silverado in the Victory Bell game. But will the good play continue in Foothill’s most-significant rivalry game this week. Up next: Friday in the Battle for Boulder Highway at Basic.
7. Canyon Springs (5-2): The Pioneers have won five straight games and have only surrendered 19 points the last four weeks. Up next: Friday at Valley.
8. Desert Oasis (5-2): Fourth-year Desert Oasis has already wrapped up the No. 2 seed in the Southwest. The Diamondbacks’ are in a good position to win the program’s first play game. Up next: Friday at Pahrump Valley.
9. Moapa Valley (6-2): Moapa Valley showed again last week that it is the class of the 3A by blanking rival Virgin Valley. Up next: Friday vs. Silverado.
10. Green Valley (5-2): Green Valley lost to Southeast leader Liberty last week. But, then again, everyone is defeated by Liberty. Up next: Friday at Del Sol.
I wish Vegas would schedule better OOS games. A 5 point win against a 2-6 team from Utah coupled with blowouts against the weakest teams in the state make it hard to tell if they're really that good. They would be perfect for bye week games.against Reno teams. I think a huge reason why they're ranked so high is their history and record of success. Three point win against Centennial who is fighting for a distant 3rd in NW. That's really the only game that you can use to gauge their skill level because ghe NE and Utah game are worthless. I'm going out a limb and saying that unranked Basic gets 4th in SE and either upsets or gives Vegas a much closer game than they imagined. If they I have no doubt that Vegas will get blown out by Liberty for the second year in a row.
tuadad,
I have to disagree with you about liberty beating vegas again. liberty is undiciplined and has bad coahching. yes they can pound the ball but when they get shut down the always pass on 3rd and long good teams will realize that and cause turnovers. I think libety loseds 2nd round of playoffs vegas vs gormon in state. Arbor has a good shot against the gaels. i dont think playing gormon will help gormon coaches prepare for double wing. The head coach from gormon is not a good coach he just have good players. sanchez is just lucky he has the best talent. have you seen the guy track record coaching before he went to gormon. money and the best talent has made him look good.
Foothill travels 3.0 miles away for my opinion, Henderson's biggest rivalry! The Falcons have a slight edge in the history of these meetings 7-5 and once again Henderson shuts down to watch childhood friends battle it out on the gridiron! Make sure you arrive early or you'll be stuck at the gates when its time to kickoff! Good luck to both teams!
Martinez I have to disagree. I don't think sanchez is great but to say he's not good is a big stretch. He coached in a very rough league in California at a school the opposite of Gorman, the "have nots". Liberty has woefully predictable play calling this is true but that doesn't mean Vegas will be able to stop them. I don't think this years liberty is near as good last year but they're improving every week and considering Centennial and 2-6 Snow Canyon gave Vegas very close games I'd way Liberty repeats...that is if Basic doesn't upset Vegas in first round. It'll be Gorman vs Liberty and Reed vs. Reno for state semi finals.
CoachFun you're definitely right great atmosphere with big rivalry. If it wasn't for western forfeiting, and Arbor View stepping in, id be at the Basic game for sure.
Vegas is not very good. They are small up front, and have 2 good players. It is the first time, I have looked at Vegas and thought they are poorly coached. Further, I have said from day one that Liberty is highly overrated, and a product of a weak division. When it comes to Southern Nevada the three best teams have been and will always be Gorman, and the top 2 teams in the NW. Even if Arbor wins the only way football will improve in Vegas is if everyone is allowed to recruit or Gorman is prevented from doing so. Tuasdad, be honest now!
Guru how can you say Liberty is overrated. So you don't agree that Liberty is the 5th best team in southern nevada. And gmartinez you probably only went to one of Liberty's game maybe the first game against Arbor View. Just to let you know that they played 6 more games and in 3 of those games the Liberty QB threw for more than 150 yds and had at least 3 passing TD's per game. And the Gorman coach is not a good coach. Now i know you are one of those fans that never played football in high school. The closest you've ever come to playing on the field is when you play madden. Coaching is a big part of Gorman's success. And back to Guru everyone in Vegas recruits so stop playing that card that Gorman recruits and they get all the good players and enough of that bs already...a lot of teams are stepping up and kids are staying together wanting to play for the high school in their community. Teams jus need the arbor view, liberty attitude "to be the best we have to beat the best" I'm jus saying...
The attitude you speak of doesn't result in victories. You need talent, and if you don't think Gorman has the best talent in town then you are seriously delusional. Further, they do recruit, I don't care that they do just make it open enrollment across the city. I do believe Liberty is a top 5 team. My point is that outside of the top 3 : Gorman, Palo, and Arbor there aren't any teams that can compete for a State Title. You are a Liberty homer, and that's fine but be realistic. There is a huge gap between Those 3 teams and everyone else. Futher, I agree with you about coaching. Sanchez is a good coach, the proof is in his success. Gorman has always had talent the only thing that has changed is the coaching. Sanchez has won everywhere he has gone, and turned his last program from a perennial loser to a championship level team in California.
A- Liberty isn't over rated, there are just a lot of terrible teams in town. That's how you even argue a team like Canyon Springs to be in top tenbecause while Liberty is ok, that ok is better than 90% of the other school who are bad. They are clearly not nearly as good as last year but compared to the rest of the valley I'd say they are the 4th best in the state.
B- Guru is right, there is a massive gap between the top three teams and the 4th. Last year it was a huge gap between top 5 in state and rest of the field this year there are 3 teams are head and shoulders above the rest with Gorman being head above 2/3.
C- if Gorman disbanded their football program half those kids would.find a way to enroll at Palo. Even if you divided Gorman fresh/jv/varsity players around town it wouldn't make the level of play any better you'd have a couple good guys on every team. What good does that do? Ask Vegas again after playoffs when they terrorize the NE but can't put a dent in the top.teams. it takes a lot more than just a couple players. Yes you'd slay a juggernaut but it really wouldnt do.much and the gap between top 3-4 programs and rest would atill be just as wide
D- take away Gorman this year and Palo or Arbor view easily win state. Liberty may give them.a better game than anyone else in state but they'd still lose by 14+ to both. Reno only has Reed which is probably the 4th or 5th best in state. Which in other places might mean something but the gap between 1/2/3 and up is too great. Reno HS is their only other decent team. Coincidentally its Reed vs Reno this Friday so we should find out if reed is a lock for state final.
"Further, I have said from day one that Liberty is highly overrated, and a product of a weak division." - GURU
First, since when is a division considered "weak" when the 3 top teams in the division are in the overall top 10? If anything, Vegas is ranked too high due to a "weak" schedule.
Secondly, your division is only as good as your bottom teams. Match up each divisions' last 3 ranked teams and Del Sol, Silverado and Coronado would beat most, if not all of them.
Coachfun: Just because your top 3 teams are ranked in the top 10 doesn't make your division tough. If anything it is a reflection of the poor football that is played in this town. I agree with your statement about Vegas, and disagree that your bottom 3 teams would beat "if not all" of the other bottom 3 teams in all other divisions. The true test of your division is how your top teams would do against other top teams.
the new realignment will happen next year and to me that is a joke and a little baby step forward for high school football here in southern nevada.
Guru you want to see better football here in vegas, i've been saying this all year long. PUT THE BEST TEAMS IN ONE CONFERENCE. You'll have better games new rivalries all the way around.
We also need to find a better playoff system for the state title. This automatic rotation to the state is killing me. Like how the top 3 teams in the state will eliminate each other before the big dance. And the big dance will be a #1 seed vs. #6 seed in state rankings. Add your thoughts on how we could improve vegas football and the state playoff picture. thank you tuasdad and Guru for the intriguing conversation if you're ever attend a Liberty game let me know i'll treat you guys to a island musubi and a soda...and i'll end with Las Vegas is way more over rated than Liberty...lol...im jus saying.....
Ok, for all intents and purposes, suppose the NE finishes out like this:
#1. Las Vegas
#2. Canyon Springs
#3. Valley
#4. Rancho
and the SE finishes:
#1. Liberty
#2. Foothill
#3. Green Valley
#4. Basic
Las Vegas-Basic match-up would be a coin-toss
Canyon Springs-Green Valley, GV beat Foothill who beat Canyon 43-26 so we know that GV can play
Liberty-Rancho, do I need to pick a team in this game?
Foothill-Valley, again, no need to pick a winner.
So we're looking at, maybe Vegas gets through and theres our top 3, still standing after the first week of playoffs.
on a side note, this years been fun reading everyone's posts!
I agree the NE is the worst division in town. Jussaying: There are a few things I would do. First of all I would make open enrollment for all Freshmen across the city similar to Arizona. You may go to your zoned school or any other school you choose 1 time. Following that idea, once you enroll you may not leave that school for any reason other than relocation. This would eliminate the nonsense with Zone variances, recruiting(everyone would be able to do it),and hardships. 2nd I would completely alter the playoff system to the point where the north and south play each other throughout the whole process based on a ranking system. Yes this will cost more but, it will lead to better title games. The ranking system would be based on points for strength of schedule, victories, margin of victory, home wins, road wins, and severity of loses. I would take the top 16 teams ranked in the state and create my playoff bracket off of these rankings. This same system is used at the small college level. Obviously conference champions get into the playoffs automatically but, the rest is based on ranking. That way you don't get a Canyon Springs type team who is the second team in the worst division with a #2 ranking and a home game. Lastly, this would require serious district changes especially in the south. The district needs to push the importance of athletics and stop cutting coaches legs out from under them. They also need 7 on 7 competitions in the spring with a period of padded practices in the spring. We need to let schools use their own equipment at camps, and we need to start letting schools schedule out of state games to improve our level of competition. I constantly hear about the level of coaching in this town. What do you expect when coaches get paid 1800 dollars for a year round job? Pay them what other states pay them! That's a few ideas, and should create some buzz on the posting.
I like that idea Guru, love the open enrollment the higher pay for coaches and 7 on 7 competitions and the spring practice with pads or spring camp. The only thing I didn't like was the amount of teams in your playoff bracket. I think 16 is way to much maybe 12 or 10. how bout you and tuasdad apply for the head position of the niaa....you got my vote..im jus saying.....
Justifying....wish I knew that sooner I would have rather had musubi than a hot dog at the liberty vs basic game I went to. And absolutely right Vegas is over rated.
Coach Fun...I think it'll be Vegas, Canyon, Rancho and DP leaving valley out....but result will be.same. even though SE isn't as strong as last year 3/4 of the first round.games will go to SE and theres a very good chance Basic beats Vegas and makes it 4/4.
As for 7 on 7 and spring pad training and OOS games well we all know with the budget coaches will continue to put a lot more hours and sweat than what they're paid for. But even when money was flowing football was never high priority in this transient town.with very little pride in community. The training is simple McQueen, Truckee, Gorman, Palo, Vegas and now Liberty and AV are building football programs not just teams. That's the big difference. They are making those boys believe and want it. AV playing Gorman is awesome for AV balls to the wall dedication. I always believed budget is the reason for very few oos games. If I was loaded I would for Palo, Vegas, AV and Liberty to play OOS games. Hell I would be happy if they played northern Nevada teams at least. It's a shame Palo hasn't gone looking or invited better opposition 2004 and 2007 Palo would have been great representatives for NV in oos games. Damnit just thinking.bout it kills me
guru,
Please send me your address i will PAY YOU to never comment on this website again. you are an IDIOT. Liberty is overrated and there is a big difference between lib palo and arbor please dont ever speak you lose all commenting privilages.
Haha and I'm the idiot.
"I have said from day one that Liberty is highly overrated, and a product of a weak division." -Guru
Did I miss something Martinez? Guru clearly said theyre over rated. I said they're not...but that's not because they're that good, its that even though they're not as good as last year they are probably the 4th or 5th best in state. And like I'm pretty sure we've all said there is a massive gap between how good the top 3 teams are and 4 and down.
Teams 4-9 are interchangeable a win by unranked basic over #3 Vegas wouldn't shock anyone except maybe Brewer. Teams 5-10 are hard to rank I give brewer credit its hard my biggest gripe is Vegas is too high until they have wins over better teams and canyon isn't top ten.
Vegas in my opinion should be about 7/8. They can prove me wrong with playoff performance but NE wins plus close wins against centennial and 2-6 snow canyon don't warrant being ranked over Arbor View or even Liberty. I wish we could fast forward to playoffs already. As for north it sucks they get an 8 team playoff thats 8 out of 11 teams will make the north playoffs this year...garbage. They should only be guaranteed a spot in semi final every year not final..i understand the location change is to be fair to north but it sucks when the north is having a down year and the top 5 teams will have to eliminate eachother down south
gmartinez what da hell? It was I that is backing Liberty. How can you say that Liberty is overrated. Guru and tuasdad said there is a big gap between palo, arbor view and liberty. I'm a big Patriot supporter I don't think the gap right now between arbor view, palo and liberty is that big. I say that cause i'm a liberty fan but i also think liberty has improved tremendously from that first game against arbor view.
Ok liberty is ranked 5th right now, the 4 teams ranked above liberty Las Vegas is the only team liberty beat last year. With that fact given why is Liberty overrated in your eyes. What team(s) are you trying to compare liberty to?
I really think you jus hate Liberty's coaching staff. So gmartinez you should stop commenting on this site cause you surely have no clue on what you are talking about...im jus saying....
I really like Guru's idea of open enrollment for freshmen. But like ive said before, Gorman will still continue to have an unfair advantage by being able to give full scholarships to incoming freshmen who all want to play on ESPN, have the great facilities, uniforms, etc. So with the open enrollment for freshmen, Gorman cannot be allowed to give full scholarships to freshmen. If this was in place this year, im pretty sure many of Gorman's top freshmen would not be there. I also understand and agree with Tuasdad about the north teams getting an automatic bye into the state finals every 3 years, especially in a year like this where the top 5 teams in the state are in the south. But nothing can realistically be done about this. Similar to California where the better teams are in Southern California and the north really has only DeLasalle and several other schools but the south teams still have to play the north for the state championship. As for the top 4 or 5 teams in Nevada, while Liberty may be 4 or 5, i believe they match up best against Gorman with their size and running and passing and at this point its all about which team has the best chance to knock off Gorman.
Ray,
You are correct but, it seems that is the only way to close the gap on Gorman. In spite of what some people think, Gorman has a massive advantage over the rest of the state with their facilities and finances.
why is canyon springs in the top 10? They play in the worst conference in the state!
GURU, Liberty is NOT highly overrated or anything overrated. They are huge and wear their opponents out.
The injury to one of their big guards two weeks ago against against Basic effects their offense a bit though...it showed in the first 2 1/2 quarters of the Green Valley game.
He'll have to come back for Liberty not to underachieve in the playoffs.
Also, Las Vegas IS very good. Their "2 good players" have the ability to score on every play against every defense in the city - bar none.
That makes them a serious threat.
Coachfun, I agree. The Southeast does have the strongest bottom tier teams.
I see the Basic/LV matchup differently, though.
Basic is a decent team, but Las Vegas is very good and I see them winning by 20+.
I've attended at least one game for every one of the top 10 teams, and IMO, the rankings are on the money.