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By Paul Takahashi (contact) 
Wednesday, May 18, 2011 | 10:05 p.m.
Schools budget
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KSNV coverage of Clark County School Board approval of budget including more than 1,800 layoffs, May 18, 2011.
Sun coverage
The Clark County School District Board unanimously approved its fiscal 2012 budget on Wednesday, bridging a $407.4 million shortfall by laying off 1,834 school district employees.
The approved budget is based on updated tax revenue projections from Nevada’s Economic Forum expected to bring in $69.1 million more than originally estimated. If that money does not comes through, an additional 1,000 positions might have to be cut.
The School District also is seeking $166.5 million in concessions from its four unions — those representing teachers, support staff, administration and police. If concessions cannot be reached, another 2,477 positions would need to be eliminated.
Concessions include passing along half the cost of pension fund increases to employees, freezing step-wage increases, increasing employee health insurance payments by 20 percent and requiring workers to take nine unpaid furlough days.
As part of next year’s budget, the board is cutting 20 percent from the administrative department budgets and 50 percent from the school textbook and supply budgets. It would also increase class sizes by three students in elementary schools and two students in high schools.
The Clark County School District is the fifth largest in the country, employing 37,341 full-time, part-time, substitute and temporary employees.
Is this what you meant Sandoval by bringing jobs to Nevada? How can Republicans honestly believe that we can diversify our economy while at the same time gutting our educational system? My fellow parents of this state make me sick as they refuse to stand up for the future our kids. Taxes are bad but these cuts are much worse.
Now we can see the direct impact of Sandoval's religious (and ridiculous) adherence to the "no tax" ideology. Sandoval's actions here have led to the elimination of 1,834 jobs. His promises to create jobs in Nevada are nothing more than pure, unadulterated lies.
How many people will lose their homes because of this, further compounding the foreclosure crisis here?
How many of these people will simply pick up and leave this state? When they do, who will pay the taxes that these teachers paid? Again, further compounding an already massive budget crisis.
But Wal Mart, the Home Depot, and of course the Gamers and Miners will get to protect their profits.
All the while, classrooms will swell with student to teacher ratios not seen anywhere else in the country, the remaining teachers here will face further pay reductions that are in reality a de facto tax on their jobs.
And all the while corporations will be smiling all the way to the bank.
Why not just give the parents Vouchers and shut down the School System? Privatize All City services
and get rig of those pesky expensive employees. Then Republicans should be able to elininate Taxes for All and not just the wealthy and provide us all with incredible service.
An extremely sad moment in Clark County history, stepping backwards into the future.
The Nevada State Legislature failed to bring long needed TAX STRUCTURE REFORM and instead played a game of political chicken with the Governor, AND simply warred back and forth: Republicans versus Democrats. NOTHING but CUTS have been done.
The good people of Nevada trusted their elected officials to serve their interests and welfare, and that trust has been violated.
This is an example when government does not work. One can only imagine what the future will hold.
In order to have the same size government Nevada had in 1978, 44,000 + people would need to be hired.Start an investigation immediately-we are being robbed. I suggest IT firms are gaining entry thru backdoors-possibly the Sarbanes-Oxley software mandated by the Bush Admin. after the Enron scandal.Check it out!
I love teaching students. I no longer teach students. I do what the school district tells me so students can pass tests. I'm supposed to make passing tests "interesting"
Our entire educational system has become so convoluted it borders on insanity.
Layoffs, cuts in salaries, forced furlough days, increases in pension and health care costs?
Here is the message from the district,
"Be glad you have a job".
Is that what our community wants?
Teachers who just have a "job?"
Can you imagine? We have a nation of citizens who hate teachers, consider them the "enemy".
Did you ever think America would become so angry and ignorant?
No surprise... Really feel bad for any kids growing up in this town right now, you are being robbed an education...
Keep up the good work Nevada voters... Good thing we didnt vote in Angle, things would be so much worse!
So much for "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND"!!! I posted a couple of weeks ago about this EXACT consequence if the Governor had HIS way!
I urge all Teacher's to get out now, while the getting is good. It will NEVER BE THIS GOOD AGAIN, EVER!!!
We might live in a Desert, But this State is DROWNING in BS!!!
The Review Journal reported YESTERDAY, that the State is Laying off Policemen, Firemen, and Ambulance workers. No Education, Police Force, Fire Fighters, or Medical Assistance Workers equal: Riots, Murders, Rapes, and all around Mayhem. Thanks Sandavol, and all the GREAT people of this State who truly believe these are over payed positions, that we really don't need!
"WELCOME TO VEGAS, NO JOBS HERE"
No Child Left Behind is failed Republican policy that needs to be ditched. If you are in favor of vouchers, why don't you really get serious and simply rewrite the child labor laws?
We can end free public education at the 8th grade and streamline the movement of children into the labor market. We CAN be competitive in the world child labor manufacturing market; bring those third world sweatshops HOME!
I agree with Bob. I hope the Sun asks some hard questions of the CCSD...which departments are these employees being cut from? Are they teachers, administrators, support staff?
I have a nightmare every night. I see Nevada in 5 years. The higher education system is destroyed, as well as K-12. The K-12 classrooms are filled with 50+ students because CCSD can't hire teachers because no teacher will move to Nevada, and the qualified substitute teachers aren't enough to fill all the vacancies. Schools are closed and standing empty. Crime rates are jumping and the visitation to the strip has dropped to record low levels. No high tech businesses have moved to Nevada and in fact, businesses are leaving because they can't find qualified workers and anybody who is qualified won't come to Nevada. Unemployment is Nevada is triple the national rate, higher than the record levels in 2010-2011, which has dropped as the recovery has taken hold. All along the strip, casinos are closing towers. The long shuttered construction projects are still waiting for completion, and more and more strip malls are empty of stores. The foreclosure rate has doubled as more and more people lose jobs or just walk away. In some blocks, the number of vacant homes outnumber the occupied ones. The population of Las Vegas has dropped by half as people leave to search for jobs. Is it a nightmare or will it become reality? I am afraid that we are well on our way to finding out, and that makes me terrified for this is my home, my children's home and my grandchildren's home. Is this the future you want for your state and city? Because if it is, you are well on your way to getting it, be careful what you wish for, you may get it. And once you get it, you may not be able to fix it easily.
Today, I am afraid we moved one step closer to that reality.
brian sandoval enjoys hurting the innocent children of the very state he serves...
don't believe his crappy argument on taxes...
it is not about the economy...
it is about brian protecting his buddies...
it is about brian protecting mining...
brian is a fraud...
just look at his phony smile...
that nervous smile...
pure bull$#!^...
make no mistake boys and girls...
BRIAN SANDOVAL IS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FRAUD!!!
No one wants to mention it, talk about it, think about it or do anything about it: the drain on our treasury by illegals and their children in our schools. This is a major problem for our state and no politician will dare to offer the solution of removing them from our state and country.
I agree that we can't afford to educate illegal children during this recession.
Unemploy thousands and Nevada families so that the Governor can continue to give foreign mining corporations tax breaks.
There are hundreds of million of dollars in taxes not being collected because the Governor and the Republicans in the legislature spend the tae tax money contributed by Nevada's working families on foreign mining corporations. THATS why we have to unemploy thousands of Nevadans.
Call your legislator at 1-800-978-2878 and DEMAND that the governor's budget, which preserves ALL of these tax breaks for Canadian and European mining corporations, paid for by Nevada's working families, be DUMPED!
The gravy train had to end eventually.
The down sizing has to be done,if anyone that is obviously overpaid by the government wants to contribute a part of their salary to help do so now or forever keep their opinion to themselves.
Let's see, 1834 layoffs, with another possible 2477, could bring the total to 4311 layoffs!
That should ripple thru the local economy nicely, with more foreclosures, less local spending, meaning the stores restaurants those workers used to visit will feel the effects, so they might layoff some of their employees, so figure 4311 CCSD employees and 50 peripheral jobs lost due to breaking economic chain......brings the total to around 5000 jobs lost.
So Gov Sandoval really has an economic plan for Nevada: it's let mining rape the state and the rest can scrounge for crumbs.
And look at all the high tech & manufacturing companies that are racing to put down roots in Nevada due to our low tax rate?!?!?
The state department of taxation admited in testimony before the legislature that they had not audited the mining industry tax returns for over two years because the department didn't have any auditior qualified to do the audit. Here is a link to the story as it appeared in the Sun this year.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/mar......
On April 12, 2010, the president of the Nevada Mining Association acknowledged in a letter that the industry may have been taking deductions not allowed by state law. That story also appeared in the Sun.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/apr......
In 2010, the gaming industry paid 416 MILLION in taxes on 5.8 BILLION in gross gaming revenue. In 2009, the mining industry reported 5.8 BILLION in gross revenue. After taking the deductions, the net income was 1.6 BILLION, with 48.6 MILLION paid in taxes.
In the 2010, Barrick Mining reported record profits and return on investment. In 2010, the Cortez Hill mine, located in Nevada, produced 1.14 MILLION ounces (35.625 TONS) of gold, at a cost of $312 per ounce. During the first quarter of 2011, the same mine produced 366000 ounces (11.4 TONS) of gold at a cost of $220 per ounce. Nevada is the 2nd largest producer of gold in the world. Assuming a price of $1442 per ounce, Barrick Mining had a profit of over 439 MILLION for the FIRST Quarter of 2010 from the Cortez Hill Mine alone. This is a link to the Barrick annual report. You may want to take a look at pages 3, 4, and 5.
http://media.lasvegassun.com/media/pdfs/......
100,000 ILLEGAL STUDENTS claiming we have to support them??? Deport them and their grandchildren or we will never recover. 140,000 illegals EMPLOYED in Nevada, not guest workers but ILLEGALS. We must take multiple approaches to rid our nation of this plague. Our economic survival requires it. MEDICAID alone will bankrupt us--MEDICAID FOR ALLEGED ANCHOR BABIES has grown at exponential rates--the Administration rhetoric about Medicare and Social Security is hype and nonsense--when you remove the ILLEGAL COSTS TO OUR PROGRAMS, WE CAN AFFORD MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY with minor changes. Don't make our retirees, seniors and elderly live in poverty while illegals collect TANF cash assistance, Medicaid, Child Care, numerous federal income tax credits/refunds they never paid in (they steal your SSN and claim the refunds), local housing credits, emergency medical care, and endless endless costs of our society and culture. Obama is concerned about the safety of Syrians while Americans are killed on our streets and in our homes by ILLEGAL INVADERS.
Roseanrose once again pulling numbers out of her rear end.
I hope none of the Unions make any concessions to the CCSD. Force them to make the cuts necessary. Force them to show the public what the Leaders of this district feel is important. When they hack away at teachers and support staff just to protect their own, then we will know where the priorities are. Teachers are less than half of the employees in CCSD. Who will they cut? People who work with children everyday, or management level people who haven't seen a school child in years.
The care, feeding and educating of non-citizens has its consequences. Maybe send the bill to the Feds? Unfunded mandates, gotta love'em.
Its very sad, but I am finally convinced that this is not a state to live in if you have children and value education. I love Nevada and had never dreamed of leaving. However, its become a parental responsibility to start looking for jobs in other states.
LVLawDawggie...
RIGHT FREAKING ON.
"Leaving Las Vegas"...
Should be the new catch phrase for all parents, educators, businesses, and those who just plain despise stupidity & ignorance.
I guess the Powers That Be have a vested interest in stupidity & ignorance; why else would you support it when you have the power to change it?
Talk about abject ignorance; the following statement crystallizes the thought process of your average Nevadan, re; Educating it's populace:
"The gravy train had to end eventually."
by noindex.
It just doesn't get any more ignorant than that.
Nevada simply will not have a proper discussion on funding for Education.
A million more posts from P.R.G. won't convince me that if you are at or near the bottom of both funding & outcomes, that there isn't a correlation. It DEFIES ALL LOGIC.
How much is enough?
Well, I don't think that, unless you are involved in the process, you are qualified to "guess" at it; we pay people who we trust (supposedly) to set standards and ensure the resources are available to meet those standards.
And that job is just not getting done.
When you're wallowing around on the bottom year after year, and you lack the appropriate resources year after year, it doesn't take a Think Tank full of hot air to tell you what will occur this year & next year.
Most assuredly, it will not improve the odds if you SUBTRACT from your bottom-feeding funding foolishness.
"Hey! Let's cut another chunk outta this ailing beast; that'll improve it's disposition!"
Do you really buy your own B.S., Nevada?
Many school systems across the country have been cutting education and have been laying off workers.
Just Google..."School layoffs"
Samples
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/28/nyregi...
http://www.kptv.com/education/27876444/d...
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-04...
http://www.ocala.com/article/20110519/AR...
http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x35035441...
Looks like schools are learning that "unsustainable" means exactly that--no bailout is coming, nobody is buying school bonds, and taxpayers are broke.
"So,, since EVERY bit of research done has shown that the teachers of Nevaduh is under paid, they want a 28-30% pay cut from them."
Huh.....Nevada is ranked around 25th in the nation for k-12 average teacher salary and they have one of the best benefit packages in the country.
Face it - educating the masses is not important here. Nevada does not need an educated populace. Actually, quite the contrary is true; that is, the state would prosper if nobody could add or read
The masses could lick the a$$es and mow the grasses of the elites, park the cars, tend the bars, and deal the cards. Clean the rooms with mops and brooms, hose the guys and call them honey, sling the hash and count the money.
No need for education here; it's counter-productive.
BS is doing the best he can... for his bosses, cutting losses.
"Many school systems across the country have been cutting education and have been laying off workers.
Just Google..."School layoffs""
Yeah, Sgt Rock, and??????????
Did you read the one where it says that the Troll mayor Bloomberg has a 3 BILLION dollar surplus but wants to save it for next year and lay off 4,000 teachers???? Even the Governor told him "It's raining NOW, use your rainy day funds". Did it mention that he wants to stop the tax on his millionaire and billionaire buddies? Did it mention he is an idiot?
This whole Right WIng B.S. campaign against schools and teachers is just about privatizing schools and nothing else. They couldn't care less what poor and middle class students do or don't do in schools.
The useless tests they tout for "accountability" are a joke.
This is all about MONEY. MOre money in the pockets of the rich.
Does anyone really believe the Koch Brothers give a damn about education???
What I find simply rollicking is the post from SgtRock, aka James F. Nance, Jr. about education.
This guy repeatedly denies that hydro-power is a function of the presence of the sun, the primary evaporator of bulk moisture that creates clouds which deliver the water above dams in an never-ending cycle, known to 5th graders as 'The Water Cycle'
Yet he gets on his keyboard and denounces a school district run by a cheating, lying, fabricating faux-administrator who is currently advising our guv on how to run schools the right way, by encouraging this erasure business, by promoting privatized schools and by fluffing up the numbers to make her plan smell good!
And then the genius pebble declares that he is 'positive' that the private schools would have a much better outcome in student success!!! LMAO
Pass the eraser, Jim. I think I see the error of my ways!!! LMAO
I wish the teachers well. My company dropped headcount by 25% from 2008-2011 while your initial 2011 cuts are only 5%. Reality is that job cuts happened in most all job sectors in this recession. The CCSD unanimously approved these cuts so there has to be some reasonable justification for the cuts. I personally don't believe the gloom & doom projections within this comment section simply because its not logical considering its only a 5% reduction in headcount. Again, I wish the teachers well.
Let's do a quick check run down.
quixiotic called the Jewish mayor from the Democratic city of NYC being part of a right-wing movement against education.
Airhead is focusing on his need to call all power sources solar power even though the rest of the entire planet don't talk using his stupid airhead nonsense speech. (ssshhhh......he wants to us all to say that gas power cars are solar power cars because he is a plain weirdo).
Mr. Weirdo wants everybody to say that airplanes use solar power.
He wants everybody to say that rockets use solar power.
While the above is technically correct only really weird people talk like that.
His air filled head does not understand that when dams generated power it takes much more than solar to feed that process. His little brain can't understand that.
I bet $50 that Airhead believes in at least 6 of the 9 following items:
1) Kennedy was killed by the CIA
2) George Bush and Dick Cheny were behind 9/11
3) Most of 9/11 was not real
4) US government has proof that there are beings from outer space
5) There is a military industry complex that runs the whole planet
6) In a former life, he was some king or famous person
7) We all should live in tiny little houses with no A/C and use bicycles to go to work
8) Man never landed on the moon
9) He thinks we live in the Matrix
Time to circle the wagons sheeple. What a JOKE. Thank your worthless legislature, CCSD schoolboard and Sandievil for this fiasco.
Feel terrible for the teachers losing their jobs, but I have to agree that the illegal population is absolutely killing the public schools, in addition to many other government programs/entities which were designed to help American citizens (I know I know crazy talk I know) not American citizens and ALL other needy citizens of the world.
Here is Sandoville's plan:
1. Insist that the educational system is a failure.
2. To solve the perceived problem, layoff instructors to create classroom sizes greater the 40 students/class.
3. At G.T. 40 students/class, effective instruction fails and a babysitting environment is created.
4. Teachers are then rated on how well they entertain, not teach.
5. Learning drops to an all time low because of massive class sizes.
6. Then proclaim that the "Public education is a complete failure" after all appropriate actions were taken.
7. As a solution, funnel taxpayer money to Religious schools where fundamentalists work for nothing to pass along their superstition, fear and dark ages mentality to replace rationality. They work for nothing because they are worth nothing and teach nothing.
8. Result: casinos, military, police have lots of uneducated, fearful applicants ready to perform as commanded for minimum wage - anything they can get...and it's all for "Amerika", love of Country.
It's sad that school teachers are laid off but higher ed will probably fare much better.
Jim
Gasoline derives its energy from the sun.
Rockets get their power from the same source and produce exothermic chemical reactions - hot air, if you will - ultimately deriving its power from the sun.
The water behind the dams and the water turning my turbines got there because of, wait for it, Jimbo, the sun. The energy that moved that mass of water is energy from nowhere else. If there is another source, get back to us, genius.
The wind is another form of energy also resourced in the energy from the sun, along with petroleum products like oil and gas. Call it weird if you like, Mr. Scientific molecule.
I see that being identified as a moron gets your juices flowing. LMAO
Have a nice day in the bright sunshine, enjoy some solar grown food, drink a cup of solar grown coffee heated with solar, delivered by solar truck and served by solar waitresses in a solar cup in a solar cooled universe.
So lare ya have it.
A little blue ball in a big black sky with one sun making all ya need until ya screw it up by pretending yer sumthin yer not, Mr molecule.
Sun Jon is spot on.
The plan is decimation by failure. Ruin the growth of thousands of people so BS can prevail.
Recall the varmint before it's too late.
His close association with the Washington DC Eraser Queen is nothing but a backroom deal to sell the children out.
The logic of EH122 is easy to understand, and easy to see through.
"My company dropped headcount by 25% from 2008-2011 while your initial 2011 cuts are only 5%. Reality is that job cuts happened in most all job sectors in this recession."
So when one group of business services loses heads because business has lost out because of over-extension and a depressed economic environment for that particular service, it follows in the minds of some that ALL services MUST therefore reduce. Come on Austin!
Fact is that the number of kids has not dropped off to the point of need toreduce teachers, responsibilities have not dropped off, and the number of teachers and their pay are dropping off leaving many more kids in a classroom with an overworked teacher in a chaotic and purposefully designed failure.
The elimination of sense and practicality from the education scene spells disaster not merely for the economy (and who is going to move here to have the worst education in the country ?) but more importantly for those little people whose chances at a successful life are being tossed.
EH122, you sit in a classroom with 43 kids and witness the 60-90% of time wasted because of discipline, the best and brightest minds wandering, wavering and losing ALL interest.
Compare that to the OTHER states where workable class size and delivery of splendid lessons to engaged learners exceeds expectations and they catch fire inside.
Nevada graduates maybe 40%; better states graduate twice that. And half of Nevada's graduates need a tutor for Freshman Composition and Basic Algebra if they do seek higher ed.
Nevada leads the pack in teen pregnancy and suicide. Can you imagine why, Tex?
Airweare,
I respect your opinion and perspective. We'll see if your predictions come to pass. I think CCSD's high school graduation rates are a little higher than 40%(in the 60's). Would you say that socioeconomic factors contribute to the lower graduation rates in the district? My girlfriend taught ESL for 10 years before becoming a district administrator in another state. I would visit her class and would hear the stories of students coming in wearing the same clothes every day to school/not having school supplies, the attendance issues, the horrific home environment for some students, the list goes on. Before each semester, my girlfriend and I would go buy pencils, paper, protractors, notebooks, bookbags and she would store these supplies in her trunk. For a few, we would buy clothes and I would go to the apartment and drop them off to the student's mother never telling her who they were from. I know some of the heartbreak situations in the teaching profession. Well, I hope the increase in class sizes, 3 in elementary and 2 in high school, will not have the devastating outcome that you predict. Good luck!
EH122,
The percentage depends on how one counts 'em but we're both in the ballpark of utter failure.
The kids in a district where I taught years ago had many issues at home as you describe - absentee folks, drunks, abusive and neglectful homes where success would be a miracle. i bought clothes and delivered them to the social worker who passed them on. I even did the Indonesian luck thing, hiding a pile of change in a pocket so they'd hear or feel it and when they dug in to nab the change they found the wad of silent bills waiting for their glee to explode inside! It sure makes a geezer feel good to see their new attitude with just a Walmart grade jacket or sweatshirt with a hood and a pouch, and a pile of pennies and a couple of bills.
But the tragedy in Nevada schools is quite severe, with around half the kids being discarded, the governor and cronies passing their lives off as unimportant enough to address cogently, and not much support from ma and pa or granma or grampa.
I worked with homeless kids for a couple of years and found them quite successful once they could get the idea in their heads that they could actually become. They felt something they had never known, self-reliance, because they knew they could actually get better day by day. Then they made me cry like a baby when the results from the state Writing Proficiency Exam came back; those little varmints enjoyed 100% Pass rate.
Homeless waifs and dumpster-diving churls saying what they meant, feeling their power, mastering their basics well enough to get the goods on the table totally made my day!
BTW, I no longer teach school; I've moved on to other lines of work, other states and some foreign countries to savor some of my last days on the planet sharing understanding and learning more than I could ever teach. Best of luck to you in Vegas.
We've only JUST BEGUN.... Figure it out. Demographics et al. Declining work force, declining population, declining enrollments, declining numbers of teachers. More seniors and retirees means more THOUGHTFUL housing and LOWER TAXES. Does any one ever tell you that you get "colder" when you're old, you lose body heat and feel the chill. So many retirees want to move south. Let's make in attractive for retirees with incomes to move to Nevada.
I bet you that Hyro energy comes more than just solar.
Can you even one single engineer or legit source that say ALL the enegry from hydro energy plants comes from solar?
I am confident that all I will hear is the hissing sound from the air that escaping your airhead.
You have a lack of knowledge on how hydro electrical power plants work.
It takes more than just the Sun to make it work.
Look Rock. The sun makes the bulk moisture join the air. Clouds rain. Rain falls everywhere including upstream of the dam.
Gravity happens, the same force that keeps us on the ground, and keeps the planet the right distance from our source of energy, the thing called the Sun.
Jim I have hydroplants on my property. I built them, maintain them and operate them; I have also done so in a number of other places. They are not complicated gizmos. Even the Army Corps of Engineers can build and maintain them. You ought to see the one we put together in Arkansas.
The things you doubt might inform you enough to learn about other things.
Why are you so afraid of trying to learn??
Has experience taught you that you are stupid??
Then learn something new until that thought disappears. You can do anything!! Just try to grow a chunk at a time.
Look up Water Cycle. Look at the pictures. Sun. Water. Clouds. Rain. Dam. Turbines. Electricity.
Look up hydro-power. Look at the pictures. Water falls, turbines spin, electrons flow.
You can DO IT. Learning isn't painful; it's liberating. Try, just try.
There are normal people.
Then there are goofball people (you).
Normal people use normal agreed on language to have discussions.
For instance, normal people would reserve the words "solar power" to describe energy systems that have solar panels.
Goofball people go around and say that air planes, cars, dams and rocket ships are solar power.
Generally the normal people stay away from the goofy people for it is nearly impossible to have a sane conversation with them.
You are the king of goofballs. You should put your little tin hat on and go back in the little cave that you live in and use whatever self-medication you use to visit that impaired dream world that you probable stay in nearly 24/7.
You could have 1 trillion gallons of water that fell from the sky due to cycle of evaporation and condensation but it would be totally useless to the generation of hyro electrical dams because one also needs the ability to harness kenetic energy.
Oceans are large bodies of water that are a very poor source for hyrdo power as compared to rivers because they lack ability to generate kenetic energy to the same degree that a river does.
You notice when you look at your pictures of dams that you don't see them located next to those massive volumes of water that we call oceans (or at least what normal people call oceans...I have no clue what goofballs call oceans).
Rivers are an effective generator of kenetic energy because they move water from higher land points to lower land points. The earth mass is the major player when it comes to hydro electrical generation systems.
So hydro needs to major parnters to work. It can't work without earth power.
The attraction of falling water to the Earth is a function of what people call a force. It is not energy, though it is related. You'll see.
Energy came from the sun to put the potential energy into the water merely by the placement of the water above the dam we built to catch it.
The force of gravity is the key player here, jim, you're right about that, but it is not an energy source. As I have pointed out repeatedly for you, the sun provides the energy. The water is the stuff which gets the potential energy by getting moved up into the air.
When we build hydroelectric dams, we put in the turbines. They have two parts -one is the propeller end which grabs the water passing by and the water turns it around. The other end has a generator which spins copper coils against a copper brush and that action sends electrons down the wire. We call that form of energy electricity. The shaft joins the propeller end (water) with the generator end (electricity).
This is why we call them Hydro- (water) electric (electrons) dams They make electricity from the falling water. The energy source is the sun. The natural gravitational force of the Earth enables the potential energy of the higher mass of water to become kinetic energy when we open the floodgates. But without the sun evaporating the water mostly from the oceans and transpiration from growing things like trees and grass, also solar powered, BTW, the water would not go up into the air and become clouds, so you see the Sun provides ALL the energy in the first place.
Secondly it's important to note there are 3 different forms of water -Ice, Liquid, and Vapor. Without the daggone sun being JUST the right distance away, we would have no liquid. If it were closer, for example, we'd have all vapor. If it were farther away, we'd have all ice.
But we got the Goldilocks planet, where we get it just right. Ain't that cool? And if we had no sun at all, we'd be at absolute zero, have no air even and then the condition of the mass of water wouldn't matter at all, would it?
Jim, re: your self-admitted assumption of such a diminutive perspective of what "solar powered" implies. let's just look at a few other apps.
A solar powered water heater need be nothing more than the black tank in a glazed box facing North in Australia or South in France. No panels required.
Solar powered methane digesters integrate solar energy by augering cow pies into a slurry where four sets of naturally occurring solar powered bacteria process the poop and make methane so millions of people can cook on it, make electricity out of it and heat their shower water with it.
Solar powered trees grow nuts and make firewood, lumber, and clean fresh air while filtering soil (another solar construct) and harboring and feeding worms, squirrels, birds and people.
So please understand that the sun does a bit more than merely casting shadows as it seems you have relegated that golden chariot's role on this tiny planet, demonstrating a diminishing denial of the quintessential source of our energy forms on this planet.
Assumptions you make seem to eliminate reason and understanding of how things actually are, wouldn't you agree??
You, goofball people, like to play silly word games.
Normal people do not reference hydro dams as solar power.
Goofball people come up with ideas that are not practical.
For instance, a goofball person may come up with an idea that we all should get solar power units and put that on our houses and do away with all other forms of energy.
Economically that is a tremendous waste of resources.
Also solar power units can't generate enough power to supply the normal needs of people today.
Of course, the goofball would say that people should stop using A/C which would essential put an end to Las Vegas as being a major city.
So go ahead, Mr. Goofball, play your word games and come up with your silly ideas.
Nobody is listening.
SgtRock,
Goofball? I haven't heard that term in a long time. LOL
In my view, Airweare won the debate on both debate clarity and for his respectful demeanor.
SgtRock, don't you know that arguments based on ad hominem attacks usually indicates that the debater can't rely on mere facts to back up his/her premise? It drowns out your points and makes you look small-minded. You also need to look-up the meaning of nonsequitur. All your debate points need to be supported by a relevant premise to your point. Just trying to help.....
The Rock says:
"Nobody is listening."
Just a guy from Texas. And a few million farmers in third world rural countries with methane digesters capturing gaseous energy forms derived from solar powered grass and solar bovine steak machines, roaming around collecting green solar energy bites to make showers hot, dinner cook and electricity flow to power the tens of millions of fridges and computers and lights in China, India and Indonesia where I actually have made lots of friends and met some fantastic folks who appreciate cow pies and methanogenic bacteria.
And just a bunch of Boy Scout and Girl Scout camps where the sun heats their tanks full of water so they get clean dishes. And hot showers. And I could go on but who's listening, right?
And some of them get understanding of how simple the truth can be
so they do not have to attack folks who tried to help them see.
eh122 don't you know that arguments based on ad hominem attacks usually indicates that the debater can't rely on mere facts to back up his/her premise? It drowns out your points and makes you look small-minded. You also need to look-up the meaning of nonsequitur. All your debate points need to be supported by a relevant premise to your point. Just trying to help but I doubt you realize that your were describing yourself.
airhead......your examples are 3rd world farmers living off of dirt and teenagers going on camping trips.
Except examples of ideas that are not practical for modern day living.
Tell ya what Jim. You say I'm a doper 24/7. As you well know the metabolites reside in urine for at least a month.
I'll make you an offer you can't refuse. Free money!!!
I'll fill a cup with the urine coming out of me. We'll watch and have it tested. If there's one scintilla of evidence to back up your nonsensical accusation, I'll drink the entire cup of urine and hand you $10,000.
If however, they can find I am so clean of what you regularly accuse me of smoking, the you drink the urine and hand me $10,000.
Fair is fair, right Sergeant James F. Nance Junior?
Then in subsequent postings, the guilty party will begin each one with this: "I am an ignorant buffoon. I construct fabricated accusations and ascribe them to my fellow collegial commenters on this newspaper in order to defend my illogical and uninformed positions on issues. I handed out $10,000 and drank urine, putting both my mouth and my money into the toilet to accept the consequences of this frequent imputing unto others what I would not like imputed to me. I am a buffoon."
Modern day living includes cooking, electricity production and showers in hot water, Jim.
It includes clean dishes and nice people sharing understanding.
Have you had the time to read about the 24/7 production of electricity from solar installations going into Nevada?
Have you eaten lunch lately, dining off the sun and taking nutrition from energy provided by the rays from that golden chariot?
Have you ever considered that possibly, just maybe, you are attempting to defend yourself against a truth that swallows up everything you know is ignorant bluster, including your feeble attempted assault on someone who has actually built and installed numerous hydro-power units along with solar things that are still working, BTW, heating water, making electricity, cooking food even at midnight (!) and cooling homes in the desert, finding beauty where there was ugliness, understanding where ignorance reigned supreme, and new beginnings where there were only dead ends?
In other words have ever considered what kind of jackass you appear when you attack nice people whose only mission was to enable, to discover and to share in ways that brought appreciation of our God, our tiny planet, and our future together?
Time is of the essence in this life. When you choose to dispose of it wrecklessly by fabricating falsehoods to ascribe to others as you frequently do, do you understand how wasteful and sacrilegious it appears to some who actually DO value life its ownself??
hey EH122,
I found this on MSNBC and thought of you and some of my family and friends in Austin. Check it out...
http://rediscover.msn.com/default.aspx?i...
One classy town, yessir
Rock, let's make it $20,000 and a gallon of foamy yellow!! What's the matter? Cat got your tongue??
This is currently the most discussed with the most disgust...LMAO
"Have you had the time to read about the 24/7 production of electricity from solar installations going into Nevada?"
OH.....you are talking about the ones that NV Energy is having to dish out 2 to 3 times what is paying for fossil fuels.
Again, thank you for giving another example of an impractical idea if one tried said, "Let's just have solar power plants."
I am sure in your book that the economy can dish out 2 to 3 times for cost of energy and do just fine. You probably don't believe that will reduce our standard of living or put people out of work. Those are thoughts that would come out of a goofball brain.
There is absolutely no solar generating plant today that can guarantee with any assurance that it can generate energy 24/7 365 days of year to a substantive level.
There is thing called the weather.
So for each solar plant one will have to have a fossil fuel plant to be on standby ready to kick in. It is a totally waste of money to have two power plants doing the job that one can easy do and at a more cost effective basis.
Also plants that store energy during the day so that it can generate at night just reduce what they can deliever during the day. The energy that they put in storage....much of it is lost during that process. It is not a practical system and that is why most solar plants don't even try to attempt it.
Let's see: 800 administrators down-graded to teachers last month, 1800, mostly teachers to go, and another 2500 or so to go if teachers don't wise up enough to welcome concessions. Another 1,000 depending on economic projections versus actual revenues. Another 1,999 or so positions as ENROLLMENT CONTINUES TO DECLINE.
So that's perhaps 6100-8100 (possibly more) mostly teachers could be out of here real soon. That will leave more than 12,000 teachers and administrators to carry on. Not the end of the world but not comfortable for those laid off.
And you've heard it here before, our economy is not turning on a dime and ramping up to pre-sour levels until we REMOVE THE ILLEGAL EMPLOYEES AND ILLEGAL STUDENTS AND ILLEGAL WELFARE / MEDICAID RECIPIENTS. If you could make that happen quickly, we could consider rehiring a few teachers before 2020.
In 2010, the gaming industry reported gross gaming revenue of 5.8 BILLION and paid 416 MILLION in taxes. In 2009, the mining industry reported gross revenue of 5.8 BILLION. Atfter taking deductions to gross revenue, some of which may not have been allowed by state law, the net profit was BILLION, and paid a state tax of 48.6 MILLION. During the Barrick Mining annual meeting, the Cortez Hills Mine in Northern Nevada was highlighted. In 2010, the mine produced 1.14 MILLION ounces (36 TONS) of gold at a cost of $312 per ounce. During the first quarter of 2011, the mine produced 366000 ounces (11 TONS) of gold at a cost of $220 per ounce. Assuming a price per ounce on the open market of $1420, that gold produced a PROFIT of over 436 MILLION DOLLARS. The report also highlighted the increase in return on investment of 12% in 2009 to a return of 19% in 2010. The company is planning additional exploration on 1000 mile square mile claim. Nevada is the SECOND largest producer of gold in the world. Of course mining is paying it's fair share.