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By Paul Takahashi (contact) 
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 | 2:19 a.m.
Dwight Jones
Carolyn Edwards
Sun coverage
Sun archives
- School Board OKs budget with at least 1,834 layoffs (5-18-2011)
- State budget windfall could prevent School District layoffs (5-3-2011)
- Tentative schools budget includes 2,500 layoffs, pay cuts, larger classes (3-25-2011)
- Assembly passes bill to use reserves for school construction (3-3-2011)
- Regent says it’s time that K-12 shares in budget sacrifice (2-8-2011)
- Education in forefront of upcoming budget battle (1-30-2011)
- School officials warn of jobs cuts, larger classes under proposed budget (1-26-2011)
- A steep climb for Nevadans (1-26-2011)
- Soft words during State of the State hide Nevada in pain (1-25-2011)
- Teachers not pleased with most of Sandoval’s speech (1-25-2011)
- In response, Democrats say taxes might be part of budget solution (1-24-2011)
The budget situation for the Clark County School District is looking less dire after about $250 million in additional state funds were allocated to the district by the Legislature last weekend.
Up until last week, the School District was looking to bridge a $407 million budget shortfall by, among other measures, laying off more than 1,800 employees.
Now, the district plans to use the $250 million in additional state revenue to maintain class sizes, restore counselors and school support staff targeted for elimination and keep about 1,000 teaching positions.
Employees who were expecting to take furlough days and pay more for health insurance premiums under the proposed budget cuts can also breathe a sigh of relief.
But there is still a $150 million budget gap that needs to be filled, the School District’s Chief Financial Officer Jeff Weiler told board members during a six-hour regular board meeting Tuesday night.
“Clearly, we still have a gap, but it’s a much smaller gap,” he said. “We’ve made up $250 million, which is amazing given where we were a week ago.”
Superintendent Dwight Jones agreed. “Even though we’re still going to still have to make cuts, it’s a lot better than where we were,” he said.
To make up the remainder of the budget shortfall, the district will maintain some proposed cuts, such as eliminating 200 bus driver positions, slashing the textbook and supplies budget in half and freezing salary increases.
About 600 central office positions that include administrators and support staff, and an undetermined number of special education, English language learner and literacy specialists will still be cut, said Bill Garis, the School District’s acting chief human resources officer.
The Legislature voted on a series of budget-balancing measures — mainly extending taxes set to expire to fill a $650 million budget hole — that sent unanticipated dollars back to the cash-strapped district, staving off teacher layoffs.
On Sunday, state lawmakers approved a $2.1 billion statewide education budget for the next biennium, which will increase the state’s basic funding per student. The School District is expected to receive $5,136 per student next year, which is $383 more per student than proposed in Gov. Brian Sandoval’s original budget.
Balancing the School District budget is still contingent on reaching concessions with the four employee unions, Weiler said.
Clark County Education Association President Ruben Murillo said the majority of the union’s 12,000 members are against the proposed pay cuts and concessions, even if that means teacher layoffs.
“Teacher morale is pretty low,” he said. “Teachers are just worried. For them, the fear of the unknown is what’s getting to them — am I going to have a job? What’s my salary and benefits going to look like?”
School Board President Carolyn Edwards said she sympathized with employees as the district finalized budget cuts.
“There is a lot of mistrust and a lot of unsettledness within the district, especially given there is talk of layoffs,” she said. “There are people currently today sitting in their buildings not knowing, and they’re terrified and they’re scared.”
“If we could do whatever can happen to move quickly to address (staffing), we can bring some calm back into our district,” she said. “This has been very difficult.”
Hopefully, the teachers feel somewhat better now.
All of the draconian cuts - just scaremongering by the Sandoval and his crew?
No, posturing by the district so the teachers look greedy when the they say no to pay cuts.
How can one respect a school district which plays politics with their children's educations?
It really is time the district financials were audited for the public.
cnev- When it involves the government,unions and taxpayers, how can you possibly expect parties/interest groups to avoid political posturing? Unfortunately, its part of the process.
Readers need to know that most average teachers here in the school district, have NOT seen a COLA(cost of living adjustment/raise) in their pay for almost 4 years and their medical benefits are getting less, not more besides, each and every year, hence more out of pocket/out front medical costs to them.
It is also real safe to say that most teachers also buy for their classes out of pocket to insure the students will have the quality and deliver of educational services that nurture academic growth. Keep in mind, the Federally mandated No Child Left Behind (which leaves children behind in reality and is NOW up for reinstatement on the Federal level-so please contact you FEDERAL LAWMAKER about this) that all states must implement in order to get those Federal dollars for things like FREE school lunches, did not provide states any money to run that program. They said do it or else. NCLB needs to go! And teachers have typically spent money out of their own pockets to purchase the NCLB teacher materials/books and student materials to use in their lessons. It's like a guitarist having to bring their own guitar to a concert.
The financial and accounting records for each school and the district should be made available online for the public in an easy to follow format. Taxpayers need to know where the $$$ money is being spent and be able to go to a Board Meeting and voice intelligently their concerns.
Now is the season for transparency and accountability. Teachers have given and given, and the district has not been mindful of the very people they courted from other states and countries to come here to work for them by keeping the pay at a level of rising costs of: fuel, food, clothing, utilities, taxes, insurances, mortgages, etc. so that their hires aren't needing to go out and get 2nd jobs.
Teachers are professionals who have worked hard to become teachers, gone through numerous background checks, volunteered, maintain on-going professional development/enlightenment, and regular relicensure. They give a great deal of their free time for the benefit of students and their families. You don't have that happen with most professions and jobs. Most people work and go home. Not so with teachers.
Teachers need to be able to afford to live here in order to work here. This is something the district needs to keep in mind at the negotiation table.
Average compensation in Vegas, private sector, is $35K, not the $91K teachers tenure up to. SOME TEACHERS ARE THE PROBLEM, not the solution. Get rid of ineffective teachers. STOP CUTTING TEXT BOOKS. LENGTHEN THE SCHOOL DAY, THE SCHOOL YEAR, THE INTEREST IN THE STUDENTS, not the teachers.
It was less expensive to keep the teachers hired then to give 1000 homes and 5000 full credit cards back to the bank in another mass exit. The shock waves from that disaster would have sent another 1000 packing and made the headlines Nationwide.
There goes roseanrose again with her lies about teachers making up to $91,000. Roseanrose wants a longer school day and school year which will cost considerably more in terms of teacher pay.
less worse is not victory!!!
we must get rid of the governor and his phony nervous smile!!!
Judith Ruth--it wasn't Sandoval scaremongering. He never said there would need to be layoffs, just the opposite in fact. It was the school district doing the scaremongering and I find it interesting that they sort of still are. Just a few weeks ago, they had $69 million restored to the budget due to the Economic forum. So the budget shortfall was changed to $338 million. So we suddenly have $250 million more and they are saying we're still short $150 million and that they need concessions. Wasn't that $69 million separate from the $250 million just reinstated?? The district has sent out somewhat threatening letters about layoffs and I'm sick of it. They really need to make concessions up in those top echelons of the district and stop trying to take it from us teachers. They make more money than I will EVER make!
@staralioflundnv "Readers need to know that most average teachers here in the school district, have NOT seen a COLA(cost of living adjustment/raise) in their pay for almost 4 years and their medical benefits are getting less, not more besides, each and every year, hence more out of pocket/out front medical costs to them."
Are you guys actually that isolated that you would think for a moment that would make us feel sorry for you?
TEACHERS need to know that most READERS here in Clark County, have NOT seen a COLA(cost of living adjustment/raise) in their pay for almost 4 years and their medical benefits are getting less, not more besides, each and every year, hence more out of pocket/out front medical costs to them.
Shannon...Well according to the CCSD Salary and Benifits schedule (http://www.ccsd.net/jobs/LLPsalary.php) teachers can receive up to $93,000 in total compensation. Factor in the SSI deduction NOT taken from a teacher's paycheck and the actual value is closer to $100k for nine months work.
bghs1986: Teachers don't receive $93,000 in pay. No one factors in benefits when discussing salaries received by any other professionals.
Additionally, teachers haven't received a COLA that actually represents actual cost of living increases for at least eleven years, while those in the private sector received all sorts of raises when times were good.
@bghs. What the teacher is paid, pays taxes on is the first column, the salary. Just as a rough estimate, for next year if you want an estimate of what a teacher will take home, SUBTRACT all the columns to the left from the salary.
Teacher pay is based on a 184 day contract which covers the time actually spent in front of students. To assist teachers in budgeting, the pay for that contract is spread out over 12 months. None of the grading, lesson planning, creating materials, etc is paid time. Most studies suggest that for every hour in front of students another hour is spent grading, planning, preparing materials, etc. If you think it is so easy, please feel free to come to my classroom and do my job for a week.
All of the draconian cuts - just scaremongering by the Sandoval and his crew?
No...Who were screaming and chanting draconian cuts? It wasn't the Sandoval crew.
It was the Hortsford boys...
@Tanker1975 "If you think it is so easy, please feel free to come to my classroom and do my job for a week."
I have gone over and over my two posts her and, for the life of me, I just can't see where I ever said anything about teaching being easy. I did however post an accurate maximum cost to the district. Just because it doesn't show up on net pay, doesn't mean you aren't getting it.
@Shannonk "No one factors in benefits when discussing salaries received by any other professionals." Actually, I have never taken a job without taking into account my complete benefit package. But that would be the intelligent thing to do. And I can assure you that every smart business owner knows exactly what it costs to have each and every worker on the payroll.
But I am confused. staralioflundnv says it has been "almost" four years since teachers received a COLA, but you say it was over a decade. Are you telling me that we were paying first year teachers $50k as far back as 1999 for (as Tanker kindly pointed out) less than six months work?
bghs1986: When comparing salaries of various jobs, you know darn well that benefits are not factored in because we are talking about salaries...what people actually receive on their paychecks (before taxes, of course). If you'd stop being disingenuous, you wouldn't be "confused."
You cannot look at average compensation for the Vegas private sector and then look at pay and benefits for a teacher. That is using bs stats for you own argument. Everyone knows teachers have good benefits and that is why most of them stay with low pay. On the other hand, I don't want to hear teachers complain about no COLA's. State employees have not seen a cola for the same time but that is just the beginning. All those cuts that were talked about during this session for teachers have already happened to state workers. The shared sacrifice has been a result of one group of people, state workers. They even put a number on the result of that shared sacrifice, 500 million. That is what has been saved by furloughs, lack of merit increases and suspended longevity pay. Also, on top of that, health insurance premiums doubled (around a 5 percent cut for most) and our retirement contributions have went up between 2 and 3 percent in the past 3 years. When your check is 15 to 20 percent less than what it should be I will have some sympathy. But when it is merely the same as it was 4 years ago, I just don't want to hear it.
johnmanrules: Do you remember the years when all state employees, except teachers, received pay increases? I do.
Shannon, I am not being disingenuous at all. I am not all confused about the pay issue, but about the amount of time teachers went without a COLA.
As far as, "When comparing salaries of various jobs, you know darn well that benefits are not factored in because we are talking about salaries," I must same I have to disagree. Only a fool would be as short sighted as to only look at the amount received on their paycheck when comparing salaries between jobs. Would you actually consider a job that pays 50K for 52, 40-hour weeks a year, no paid vacation or sick time with a 100% employee funded insurance program to be equal in pay to a job that paid 50K and was exempt from Social Security Taxes, offered 21% retirement contribution, and a $6K contribution to health insurance for 184 6-7 hour work days as getting paid the same? If you do, please tell me you don't teach economics are even basic math.
And perhaps you should learn the difference between 'pay' and 'make' (although earn is a much more appropriate word since teachers don't actually CREATE their salary). roseanrose was completely factual. Our tax dollars do PAY (to transfer money as compensation or recompense for work done or services rendered) teachers in excess of $91K. However your claim that no teacher MAKES/EARNS (to gain or get in return for one's labor or service) is a bit more muddled. While I understand how one could not feel they were actually PAID the $90k ($50K for first year teachers) in question since their net pay doesn't reflect that, the district has in fact implemented a transfer of funds to benefit that education as compensation for services rendered. Since PERS, annual insurance premiums, Medicare, worker's comp and unemployment contribution ultimately benefit the teacher, there are in fact PAID that money.
PAY/EARN/MAKE...While I don't want to be labeled a "teacher basher" these are very rudimentary words with extremely simple definitions. And it frightens me that the ones charged with preparing future generations to lead this country don't seem to grasp them.
bghs1986: As an individual looking at a particular job with Company A and Company B, one would certainly take into consideration the benefits offered by each in addition to the salary. That, however, is not what we are talking about. We have been talking about money that teachers will not be receiving on their paychecks, a very real concern when they have bills to pay.
Holy cow! Whoever said a "little" knowledge was a dangerous thing was sure on track.
Let's start with the factual errors from BGHS and Rosie: Even the link YOU (BGHS) provided clearly shows that there are NO teachers in Clark County making $91k as annual compensation. You will note that the maximum is a teacher with at least 14 years experience and a Doctorate Degree and that figure (from YOUR link) is $70,060. I can guarantee there are very few teachers at that level. It may even amaze you to discover that in Utah, ALL school districts (except one) have an even higher maximum salary than Clark County. Item #2- Clark County teachers have NOT had a "cost-of-living" increase in the last 20 years. There has never been a "COLA" entered into their contract, unlike with ALL other State, County and City workers in Nevada.
Now on to "Megara" and her factual errors: Can any rational being evaluate the Governor's proposed $600 million in cuts to CCSD as NOT involving Draconian wage cuts? You think a budget cut like that isn't going to cost a job or two (or 2000)?
Maybe you need facts or rational thought to respond logically to editorials. Just a thought...
Certainly no one with an ounce of sense can deny the blatently obvious...
Our Hispanic population drags down test scores and ravages the graduation rate numbers. Just the facts.
Shannon,
I am not against you on this issue, not by a long shot. My point was that state workers have taken the hit from this economy. I don't care what happened 5 or 10 years ago. I am talking in the present. I would put my next paycheck on the fact that my pay and benefits have been hammered way more than yours. It is not even close. Like I said, 15 to 20 percent less in the last 3 years.
Richard,
I am asking this as a question and not as a comment. Are you saying the pay scale for teachers is the same as it was 20 years ago? If so, those teachers in 1991 were making a good salary. If there has been negotiations since that time that have increased the salary, that is the same as a cost of living raise in my view.
BGHS,
To put it simply, salary and benefits are different calculations. What is being said is that you are calculating both on teachers and only pay on private sector employees. Here is a link that I found for 2009 that shows hourly pay for the Las Vegas/Paradise area. This is for average hourly rate only, not benefits included and it is over $40,000.
http://www.bls.gov/ro9/oeslasv.htm
bghs as "disingenuous"? well...maybe...but he nees to get past the half-truths. I've had that job that pays 100k a year for a 52 week year 8 hours a day (and time-and-a-half for overtime)(less 3 weeks paid vacation and 5 days paid sick leave a year), but when I left the job I could go home to hobbies, kids, tv, or just to relax and forget about work until tomorrow. I had union benefits (retirement), a 501k and social security. Not bad.
I gave it up after 20 years for a job that required me to spend 7 years in college (at my own expense), extensive FBI background checks, State Licensing (at my own expense) and a job that at least in name only, amounted to 184 days at 7 hours a day per year. The reality is: To maintain your State License, you are REQUIRED to continue your education and reapply every few years. The 7 hours (oops...we get 35 minutes for lunch...wait...that isn't counted as the 7 hours class time) are spent in front of 220 students who, for the most part, pay attention. THEN you have papers to grade, lessons to prepare (oops...THERE goes the summers off!), exams to prepare and grade, several "after contract hours" required for select school activities (I guess bghs would include that in the pay?). And if you AREN'T doing all these things, then you don't have your job for long...No, Dorothy, there is no "tenure"..just look at the NRS to see all the reasons a public employee can be terminated for. The actual hours spent per contracted day average around 10 for most teachers. Those covering sports or activities spend a LOT more (and sure, they get an "extra" $1000 or so for those extra hours for practice, games, etc...AND they're still expected to fit in all or those other preceeding requirements). In short, it is a 300 day a year job with most days well in excess of 7 hours.
It is also nice to have that retirement paid for...but look at the fica taken from YOUR pay check. Does it equal that 21% bghs alludes to? Oh..and while we're at it...GOVERNMENT empoyees DON'T get Social Security...that's why they're EXEMPT from Social Security taxes.... Oh..and if that school employee would like coverage for any member of their family, other than themselves...THEY PAY FOR IT! That doesn't happen in non-government industry...employee coverage covers teh WHOLE family. Oh...and by the way, bghs, I don't know where you worked, but NONE of my employees paid anything for their family insurance coverage...and I had Teamsters, Operating Engineers, and two other unions involved. And here's another startling revelation...teachers PAY Medicare/Medicaid for EVERY paycheck.
bghs, get YOUR facts straight and stop with the distortions and half-truths. It is OBVIOUS that you have something against teachers...or are you really that poorly informed?
johnmanrules: My paycheck hasn't gone down, but I'm not teaching anymore either. I think it particularly stinks that county and city employees get far higher pay than state employees who are screwed on a regular basis. I hope things look up for you and other state employees soon.
@RichardV88 and Shannonk....Let's be clear. It was never my intention to imply that even 1% of the CCSD teachers are eligible to receive compensation at the Class F14 level.
While Shannons states that "That, however, is not what we are talking about. We have been talking about money that teachers will not be receiving on their paychecks," it is her that is now being disingenuous, because that is exactly what we are talking about. Rose stated that taxpayers PAY some teachers upwards of $90k and Shannon called her a liar. But it is in fact true.
For every F14 teacher the taxpayers PAY the following:
$70,060 in salary
$15,063 to PERS
$6,620 in Insurance Premiums
$1016 to Medicare
$231 to Worker's comp
$210 to Unemployment
For a grand total of:
$93,200
We come back to basic English. The difference between paying and being paid, an elementary concept. Regardless of whether is appears on the teachers paycheck, THE TAXPAYERS STILL PAY IT. That is what rose said, and that is what Shannon says is not true. Either she is incredibly daft or she is the one lying.
And I would love to hear you guys explain how you are not actually receiving the monies PAID to your insurance and PERS, because if the teachers aren't benefiting from it, then lets stop paying it. But I bet you would sure fight to keep the district shelling out all that money you "aren't being paid."
And the fact that teachers are either too self-indulgent or too ignorant to understand this says volumes about why our schools are failing.
bghs has a good point...lets also figure in the (required by law) Medicare/Medicaid, workman's comp, unemployment compensation, 62% (this year) of FICA employer PAID, and health insurance(Employer paid) that the no government worker gets (and don't forget the 401k, Roth IRA, deferred comp, and stock options) and we can see that educators are compensated FAR less than an educated worker in the private sector.
And again, if your think our schools are failing, you must be a NCLB fan. Wait till 2014 when, based on this plan's ill-thoughout requirements, 98% of public schools in the US will be failing. Note the following if you think education is failing in the US.
Several years ago, a number of community leaders addressed a large group of teachers in the Green Valley High School Theater during a Teacher In-Service day. One of the business leaders was Elaine Wynn. In a presentation that had been mostly positive, Elaine's turn focused on the employees she was getting out of the Nevada Public School System whom she said could neither read, write, spell, nor make change to any acceptable degree of accuracy. She basically condemned what she saw as a wholly inadequate system. When she was asked, "Then why did you HIRE them?" she had no response. But this points to a significant problem with the uniqueness of the Nevada economy (and particularly Southern Nevada). You DON'T need a high school education to get a decent paying job in Nevada, certainly not in the construction, entertainment, or tourist industries.
Now let's get to the heart of education in America. Is the system failing? NO. I had the luxury of visiting Japan in the 1990's specifically funded by Mobil Oil and my mission was to examine the Japanese school system-elementary through college. I was surprised to find that Japanese teachers were envious of our schools. They were puzzled by the fact that in any given year, nearly 50,000 Japanese students were attending school in the United States (K-12 and mostly college) and fewer than 500 US students go to Japan. They were puzzled, and somewhat embarrassed, that of the 829 Nobel Prizes for advances in Literature, Medicine, Physics, Peace, Chemistry and Economics only 19 have come from Japan. 326 of the 829 have come from The United States.
Then we can look at testing, specifically the SAT. Sandia National Laboratories conducted a study that shows statistically SAT scores have actually risen over the study years. Also keep in mind that as test scores rise, SAT also revises the test to make it more difficult. Heaven forbid that dozens of students earn perfect scores. Also keep in mind that not only education, but this sort of testing is open to everyone in America. Other countries are much more selective. Even in Japan, lower achieving students are tracked at an early age into vocational schools and endeavors. We're comparing our entire education population to other nations that only encourage the academic student to pursue higher learning tracks.
The International Math Competition has been dominated by US competitors (one of only four countries to finish with all-gold medal awards), including a 14 year-old who had a perfect score. In 1994 at the International Math Olympiad in China, all members the U.S. high school team, with a month of preparation (compared to year-long preparation by other teams) had a perfect score at the end of the two-day competition. This has never been equaled before or since. All of the U.S. Team members were public school educated. Public education hasn't failed them and it hasn't failed the rest of our population, either. The United States can also point to the fact that a higher percentage of our population graduates from college--more than any other nation in the world, including Japan.
While the United States is only third in world population, we are undeniably the world's strongest economic and military power and likely to remain so for many years to come. Our per capita income is substantially the highest in the world today and we lend more support, physically and financially, to other countries than all of the other countries in the world, together. How can a country with a "failing" education system do that? Luck? Sure".
bghs1986: Roseanrose said, "Average compensation in Vegas, private sector, is $35K, not the $91K teachers tenure up to."
Now, are you trying to tell me that the $35,000 is with benefits?
BGHS:
Exactly how many F14 teachers do you think are employed by the school district?
You're making a mountain out of a molehill. The truth of the matter is this: an F14 teacher is someone employed for at least 15 years AND has at least 65 credits of graduate level work. (that means they've earned a PhD by the way.)
Someone with that pedigree working in commercial enterprise is very likely to be at the upper executive level of whatever company they work for, making substantially more than the hypothetical teacher we're talking about.
If you want to compare apples to apples, the teacher comes to taxpayers as a substantial bargain. But of course you don't want to do that, you want to compare apples to bricks. Sorry pal, but it doesn't work like that.
Why is it that people like you must constantly pick extreme examples and then deride an entire class of people because of it? Teachers are professionals, many of whom have credentials substantially comparable to the professional credentials of engineers, corporate executives, nurses, psychologists, FBI agents, and the list goes on. Why is it that teacher compensation is such a thorn in your side?
Professionals deserve adequate pay. Period.
CCSD teachers have taken substantial and repeated cuts to pay and benefits for many, many years. The time has come for them as a group to say enough is enough, and to demand fair compensation at ALL pay levels.
According to the NEA, Nevada is middle of the pack of the 50 state rankings in teacher's pay.
@BGHS - "Are you telling me that we were paying first year teachers $50k as far back as 1999 for (as Tanker kindly pointed out) less than six months work?"
My wife is a 4th year teacher making mid 30's, where is this 50K figure coming from, since no first year teachers make anywhere near that?
@ShannonK..."Now, are you trying to tell me that the $35,000 is with benefits?" Well considering the per-capita income of Las Vegas is actually $22,060 I would feel confident telling you that $35,000 does, indeed include benefits.
@Keystone...."Exactly how many F14 teachers do you think are employed by the school district?" Exactly how many F14 teachers need be employed to make Shannon's liar accusation incorrect? The answer is 1.
@QWERTY...How hard is it to follow the link I posted.
"But of course you don't want to do that, you want to compare apples to bricks." Actually I didn't compare anything to anything. I supplied facts to support my assertion that ShannonK was wrong.
"Why is it that people like you must constantly pick extreme examples and then deride an entire class of people because of it?" Let's skip the utter irony of you accusing "people like me" of "deriding an entire class of people," and move on to the the Truth. I didn't pick an extreme example. I didn't pick any example. Rose supplied the example, Shannon falsely accused her of lying and I simple pointed out that Shannon was wrong. Had she simply chose not falsely accuse someone of being dishonest, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. Because "teacher compensation is [not] a thorn in [my] side?" Ignorant, dishonest, self-indulgent, whining public employees are.
Why is it that people like you, when faced with the facts, just make up whatever you need to about those who supply the facts in order to feel good about yourself?
Because had you not decided to prejudge me, you would have learned that I believe:
"the teacher comes to taxpayers as a substantial bargain."
"Teachers are professionals, many of whom have credentials substantially comparable to the professional credentials of engineers, corporate executives, nurses, psychologists, FBI agents..."
and
"Professionals deserve adequate pay."
However, I can have these views and also comment on ShannonK's lies.
@Qwerty...CCSD pays out
$35,083 in Salary
$7,543 to PERS
$6,620 to Insurance
$509 to Medicare
$116 to Worker's Comp
$105 to Unemployment
for a total of
$49,976
to first year teachers
But seriously, why can't you just follow the link posted and see for yourself.
@Johnman....I went to the link you posted about the average hourly income, but my calculations revealed that a person at that hourly rate working the same hours as teachers would bring home about 24k, not 40k.
But once again, that isn't the point I was making. My point was simply this:
SHANNONK WRONGFULLY ACCUSED ROSE OF LYING about the amount of money taxpayers pay F14 teachers.
bghs1986: Don't give me guesses. Give me a link. Here's mine that backs up what the median private sector pay is versus public sector and the fact that they are not talking about benefits with those salary numbers. http://www.lvrj.com/news/20651119.html
I find it amusing that you accuse me of lying, but stick up for the known liar, roseanrose, who pulls numbers out of her rear end on a regular basis and backs nothing up with links.
@ShannonK...Rose have lied a hundred times on this board, but on this post she did not. It was you.
Anyway here is the link regarding Las Vegas's per capita income
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/...
You do know that median income is not the average income. Well, you obviously don't or you wouldn't have posted an irrelevant link. Another sad indictment of out educational system.
Why can't you just admit that rose was correct when she posted that taxpayers actually pay F14 teachers over $90k in compensation. The rest is just smoke and mirrors. You prove to me that that is not correct and I will apologize for calling you a liar. If you can't then you need to apologize to rose.
bghs1986: Before you accuse me of lying, why don't you ask roseanrose where she gets her number of "average compensation of $35,000"?
I have no idea what your link is supposed to prove. It says "Median household income, 1999" and "Per capita money income, 1999." Looks like you posted an irrelevant link.
I don't care where she got her $35k number because that is not the figure you disputed. You disputed the $91k number and I posted the link verifying that. The rest is just you trying desperately not to own up.
Not defending either, but ...
Firefighters are discussed using total pay and benefits,
Teachers are discussed using only net pay.
Strange, strange, indeed.
Lost in this LONG argument over semantics and numbers, is the simple fact that the Upper Management of CCSD is corrupt and bloated. The public is being led by the nose to focus on evil teachers and their outrageous compensation. It is exactly what the CCSD leaders want. Blame the teachers and don't look at the Administrative level.
Wake up public. Quit ignoring the man behind the curtain. The CCSD is a mismanaged mess where less than half of the employees are teachers and even less of the money is actually spent in classrooms.
Someone put the focus where it should be, MANAGEMENT.
When people keep talking about the "taxpayers" paying teachers' salaries, I have to chuckle. Teachers are taxpayers, too, so basically they are helping to pay their own salaries? Also, it strikes me as funny when it's said that teachers don't pay into Social Security. It's true that they don't, but they also won't get any Social Security either.
I want to make tchm5 happy.
Let's make a deal.
Teachers can pay into Social Security and then they can get Social Security.
So instead of retiring at 55 or 60. They can retire at 67.
So instead of getting $37,000 a year in cash retirement and free private health insurance they will get $13,000 a year and Medicare and Medicaid.
Deal?????
Does that make you happy?
"stand firm teachers, ...pay cuts are unacceptable"
what about that room tax which was originally meant for teachers salary but gobbled up by ccsd.
two years of pay cuts is sad and unacceptable. if ccsd is threatening layoffs so be it. hold onto your salaries and benefits because once their gone you never get them reinstated in the next year. there are a few teachers who should be let go. most of our teachers do an excellent job and they should get a livable wage for 5 years of college, remember most have student loans to pay for. if ccsd wants to save money they need to do an efficiency study to trim their fat and eliminate the SAP/ERP(software) program which has spent over 70 million and is estimated to cost another 50 million more to finish
If they had opted t0 boot 1000 teachers while raising energy rates 24% and increasing class sizes by the numbers of kids left out and piling in here from foreign countries to get all the free education in ESL, ELL, math, science etc along with housing, clean water and clean air compared to where they are, the problem would have been a reputation problem not unlike what Wiener is facing - insurmountable!!
Long story short, nobody would EVER relocate here. They will have second thoughts as it is, but we are collapsing fast. If you can't read the writing on the wall, get out and look around.
bghs is correct that a teacher has the possibility to make $91K, including benefits. What I wonder about is your per-capita. Is that every person in Las Vegas, every working person, or working adults?
Richard, thank you for the positive comments about education in the US.
bghs1986 commented:
"And the fact that teachers are either too self-indulgent or too ignorant to understand this says volumes about why our schools are failing."
Please. Stop blaming teachers already until you have "walked" in my shoes. Please come and experience for yourself so you actually will know what you are talking about.
Let me enlighten you about the brain:
Education does not happen only in schools. It begins at home. A child who has not been stimulated during the formative years 0-5, is already five years behind when entering Kindergarten. Stimulation makes those dendrites connect - akin to constructing a freeway. When those dendrites don't connect, think about going to the Meadows Mall using surface streets because there is no freeway. Do you understand the connection? That is: when you present information, the brain processes it quickly because of the connection (freeway). If not, it takes a long time to be processed because there is no way to get where the processors are! With me so far?
By the time I get the kid without the freeway, I have to make up for the 5 years missing. And, get this - cognitive abilities are hereditary. Now think how much I have to make up to get that kid without the freeway to be at level with his peers, without support from home, from the community and from people like you. The people who build actual freeways are paid WAAAY more. Why, are real freeways more important? Your answer of course underpins your philosophy.
I hope your freeways are there, otherwise, this exercise is useless.
Taxpayers are getting a lot of bang for their buck with teachers.
Everyday, teachers a given children who typically don't speak, read, or write in ENGLISH, and work near miracles, much of the time, without the support of parents supporting their children in English, and having the ability (or education themselves) to help their children with school work assignments at home/homework.
A child can only become so proficient in (English/Language Arts)reading, writing, and speaking with the amount of practice time they put behind the instruction given to them.
Our society, school districts, and country, continue a path of assuming "political correctness" in avoiding addressing the underlying reason to academic failure in American schools: LITERACY in the English language.
Have a great last day of school, folks!
Sgt. Rock, you are off on the free, private health insurance in retirement. In reality, current teachers pay money each month to help subsidize retiree health care, and the retiree's pay quite a bit to maintain the coverage they had while working. It is far from free.
Truth be told, teachers do receive a nice retirement package. But that is irrelevent to the fact that the MANAGEMENT of CCSD wastes millions of dollars on needless positions and programs while leaving the classrooms to survive on the scraps. Everyone blame the teachers, just don't watch the High Level Administrators while we steal all the money! Perfect.
Put teachers on FULL TIME AND YEAR ROUND. Stop paying up to $91K a year, with tenure and benefits. CCSD posts the salary and $91K is correct--not all teachers are topped out but the pay scale is OBSCENE WHEN LOCAL WORKERS AVERAGE ABOUT $35k. We CANNOT AFFORD to keep educating 100,000 ILLEGAL STUDENTS.
Where does the $35k number come from? What local workers does this apply to? I'm guessing it doesn't include doctors, lawyers, engineers, pharmacists, nurses, dentists or any other number of educated workers. And to be clear, this number you quote is your AVERAGE?
And you are correct. The highest paid teacher can earn upwards of 91K in salary and benefits. But, it is clearly not the AVERAGE. And if they do reach that 91k level, it is well deserved.
If you all think that teachers are making bank and only working "part time", why aren't you trying to share in the good deal? Why aren't you becoming teachers?
UPDATE on March 8th, 2013, and oh, the difference a year (during the Nevada State Legislative Session) makes! NOTTTTTTT. So here it is below:
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The cause of the real problem still exists: Nevada Lawmakers REFUSE to adequately and appropriate fund education in Nevada. Until such a time, industries as MINING will exploit the nonrewable wealth buried within Nevada soils, remove it paying a pittance in return. They (MINING) should pay at least an average of what they (MINING) pays in the other 49 states! Here in Nevada, virtually nothing has changed since MINING dictated MINING LAWS into the Nevada State Constitution over a 100 years ago, when the Nevada Constitution was first being written. Go figure!
Year after year, Nevada's infrastructure has LACKED revenue to keep it functioning properly.
Here in Nevada, Las Vegas specifically, a REPEAT of the same, tired, worn out, vicious cycle will soon begin. Recently, the school district cried broke, forced compensation freezes on staff across the board, conditions and morale at schools at an all time low, reduced community support, hundreds of good people leaving their positions due to their "reasons", and surprise, surprise, the district has suddenly come up with TWO YEARS worth of funding to hire to fill positions and TEMPORARILY reduce classroom size and expand PRE-K and Kindergarten...once again!!!!
Confessed, "To stop the hemorrhaging, Superintendent Dwight Jones sought a salary freeze from the district's four employee unions representing administrators, police officers, support staff and teachers." And as we experienced with the temporary "Stimulus" money a few years back, as soon as that money runs out, teachers will be CUT again (assorted tactics used to achieve this), programs will be cut, and classroom size will again increase. No need for a crystal ball here!
The following statement puts the nails in the prediction coffin, "The hiring announcement comes exactly a month after an arbitrator ruled in favor of the School District in a bitter contract dispute with the local teachers union -- a decision that saved the district about $38.6 million over the next two years."
You need consistent money coming in to properly run infrastructure, and with all the massive overhaul changes Superintendent Jones had planned and going, the handwriting was on the wall in regards to Nevada Lawmakers putting EDUCATION AS A PRIORITY in this state.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
Continued
REMEMBER: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
There is no way these changes could be SUSTAINED reliably here in Nevada. Really, Superintendent Jones should have done his homework on the way Nevada Lawmakers work before taking his position, as should the next superintendent candidate and any NEW teachers!
Nevada Lawmakers will NOT adequately fund education, now or ever. History attests to this fact. Good luck to all who apply for positions with the school district!
Blessings and Peace,
Star