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Clark County Commissioner Steve Sisolak, shown in this file photo from last year, is calling for an investigation into firefighter sick leave.
Friday, Jan. 21, 2011 | 2 a.m.
Sun archives
- Sisolak calls for local, state, federal probes of fire union after arbitrator’s decision (1-20-2011)
- Arbitrator: Fire union offer had problems; county needs to curb sick leave abuse by firefighters (1-20-2011)
- Arbitrator backs county over firefighters’ union in contract negotiations (1-19-2011)
- County firefighters union preaches frugality, to others (11-2-2010)
- Sisolak offers proof of firefighters ‘gaming’ sick leave system (9-11-2010)
- County, firefighters’ union spar over contract negotiations (8-3-2010)
- Is a wave of county firefighter retirements on the horizon? (6-25-2010)
- Rory Reid says firefighters union resorting to ‘scare tactic’ with ad (6-15-2010)
- County considers plan to privatize airport firefighting force (6-11-2010)
- New plan to curtail Clark County firefighter overtime (6-5-2010)
- Staffing shuffle would cut county Fire Department overtime (5-20-2010)
- Las Vegas, Clark County collaborate to limit firefighter overtime (4-27-2010)
- Fire union resists move to increase its ranks, reduce overtime costs (4-16-2010)
- Has fire union support become a campaign curse? (4-15-2010)
In 2009, Clark County Commissioner Steve Sisolak began looking hard at Fire Department costs. He had received a deluge of angry calls and e-mails from constituents wondering why the unionized firefighters weren’t accepting salary or benefits reductions as the county dealt with budget cuts and the local economy continued its slide.
“Everybody was losing their jobs, their homes,” Sisolak said.
For much of that year, he was the only commissioner willing to criticize their salaries, benefits and retirement packages that averaged about $180,000 in 2009.
In retaliation, members of the union showed up at Sisolak’s public meetings to glare at him. He said he received death threats, which prompted county administrators to post park police at commission meetings. A city firefighter posted on Facebook that she’d like to shoot him.
This week brought a measure of vindication for Sisolak in his fight with the union after an arbitrator broke a stalemate in negotiations by deciding the county’s contract offer was better than the firefighter union’s offer.
Sisolak said he was happy. “I’m not done, though,” he added.
Late Thursday, he sent letters to the FBI, Metro Police, Clark County district attorney and others seeking an investigation into potentially criminal acts of racketeering and fraud by firefighters. Sisolak has long alleged that firefighters are abusing the sick-leave system to rack up overtime pay.
After reading the arbitrator’s 26-page decision, he is more determined than ever to have his suspicion investigated. He pointed specifically to one part of the decision:
“Some employees use sick leave as vacation, scheduling themselves to be ‘sick’ months in advance. This improper use of sick leave is evident from e-mails the (Fire) Department recovered,” arbitrator Norman Brand wrote. “Second, it appears some firefighters may deliberately call in late to turn the overtime opportunity into a callback/overtime opportunity.”
Callback pay is more valuable than overtime because it pays overtime plus a contribution to a firefighter’s pension.
In his letter, Sisolak said if more than one firefighter has been involved in sick-leave scamming, it might represent a violation of the federal RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) Act.
Union President Ryan Beaman could not be reached for comment late Thursday.
The Sun’s Jon Ralston reported Thursday that the union said any abuses are isolated, not systemic.
Sisolak first alleged sick-leave abuse in March, after the Sun reported firefighters use more than twice as much sick leave as most other county employees.
Months later, Sisolak offered what he called proof after the Fire Department adopted a policy in mid-2010 to slow overtime pay for sick leave: Instead of requiring three battalion chiefs to be on duty at all times, only two were required if a third called in sick.
If someone called in sick, no one else was being called in to make overtime wages.
Over a 12-week period, sick-leave use by battalion chiefs fell 80 percent compared with the same 12 weeks in 2009.
In his decision, Brand used examples of the worst abusers, which he gleaned from county documents.
The “chief abuser,” he said, was a firefighter who called in sick 48 days — but never four days in a row, which would have required he provide certification of illness. The man worked 92 overtime/callback shifts. In 2009, Brand wrote, “he used sick leave and overtime to earn $232,187.”
From county salary records, this fire engineer had a base pay of about $85,000, plus $99,000 for overtime and $3,000 in call-back, plus other benefits.
In second place was a colleague who worked in the same fire station: He earned a total of $233,580, including $95,000 in base pay, $63,000 for overtime and $23,000 in call-back, plus other benefits.
Current policy only requires a certification of illness after four sick-leave days in a row. Brand agreed with the county’s suggestion to change the policy to require a certification after “five unexcused absences in a year, even if they aren’t consecutive.”
“This is complete and total vindication for what I’ve been saying,” Sisolak said Thursday. “If someone is cheating the system to get extra money, it’s no different than stealing.”
Brand’s decision went beyond sick leave and dissected a union assertion from 2009 that it had a tentative agreement with the county on some cost concessions. At the time, the county said that wasn’t true.
After looking at these facts, Brand agreed with the county.
The union’s 2009 offer included a reduction in cost-of-living increases from 3 percent to 2 percent, saving $1.2 million. Beaman also wanted to transfer $4 million earmarked for fire station security fences to University Medical Center. It was to help the hospital’s financially strapped oncology outpatient unit, he said.
The union wanted something in return: two more personal-leave days each year, costing $1.6 million.
At the time, then-County Manager Virginia Valentine stopped just short of calling Beaman a liar. She told the Sun “oncology never came up. I’m telling you, never.”
She also said state law forbade the county from using the $4 million set aside for fencing for anything but capital expenses.
Don Burnette, chosen as the new county manager this month, was the key strategist behind these negotiations with the firefighters’ union.
Empowered by a commission that supports reining in costs — property and sales tax revenue has fallen for the past three years — Burnette said he was “very pleased with the outcome.”
CORRECTION: The story has been corrected to include sick-leave and vacation pay in the base pay figures. In 2009, the fire engineer's base was about $85,000: $44,000 for hours worked; $33,000 sick leave; $8,000 vacation pay. The other firefighter's base was about $95,000. | (January 21, 2011)
Before Sisolak, who was minding the store?
.
These guys think that they are irreplaceable. Their salaries are to say the least outrageous. Who do they think they are? Most of the jobs could and should be outsourced to a private company which would save the county millions.
Sisolak keeps putting up the fight very admirable. What's so disturbing is how arrogant the fireman are they feel they aren't replaceable. Talk about milking the system these guys are scumbags.
Average pay: $180,000
One example,
Base pay: $52,000
Callback pay: $23,000
Overtime: $63,000
Sick leave: $26,000
Total pay: $233,580
No wonder there are cross hairs on Sisolak. Maybe the Firefighter's union could hire Sarah Palin for a public relations gig, then claim they are the victims.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/3...
Steve Sisolak, who was sworn in Monday as a commissioner, received a total of $23.5 million in 2005 after the airport refused to pay him for height restrictions imposed on a parcel he owned.
During the Monday commission meeting, Sisolak noted that although he had gone through airspace litigation, he was never involved with the Mohler or Mona cases, so he should be allowed to vote on the settlements.
Lenhard said Sisolak's dispute set the clearest precedent. The Nevada Supreme Court ruled that landowners can seek compensation if planes flying below 500 feet hinder their ability to develop high-rise buildings, he said.
"The Sisolak case defined what a taking is, and what we're expected to do" to compensate owners, Lenhard said
The county is just so squeaky clean, isn't it?
The Sisolak bashers have not yet awakened.
Tom Collins feels so sorry for many people making well over $100k and $200k, he is more than welcome to put up his own money to supplement the employee's income.
Go to transparentnevada.com, click on Clark County, 2009. You will be shocked. Keep clicking "next" at the bottom of the screen...you'll be mad.
Here is what we need to do go around all over the country and get New fire Chiefs all the way down too fire man/woman tell them this will be a no Union shop, reduce there pay. Pay there way here. then on one Day the GOV fires all the freeloader's and bring on the NEW.. Just like all those bums flight controllers.
And another thing...
...taking time off for minor, third-degree burns and smoke inhalation.
Do these fire-guys think we're idiots?
I say no more over-time, sick leave or vacations until further notice.
And there is NO justification for such a high base pay, when we have a perfectly good EBT food-stamp program and thousands of empty houses around the valley, where their families could double-up in..
And the SIZE of these firetrucks...has anyone considered a smaller (perhaps hybrid) fire-truck?
I think not.
It is very clear the abuse of overtime by Clark County Firefighters is conspiracy in practice by many of the fire station firefighters. From command to entry level. County Commissioner Sisloak is doing the right thing by asking for a Federal Investigation.
Stealing public funds and breaking the public trust are both crimes aganist the taxpayers and threaten the public safety.
....In addition, the firefighters, the Fire Department and the Fire Department Union have tainted future efforts coming from them on community issues such as fund drive, or boot drives.
Las Vegas residents will think twice about giving to causes sponsored by the fire fighters, like on Labor Day, or when we see the fire fighters at the stop lights asking for donations.
Its about time someone open the can of worms on the (GOOD OOO BOYS)THANKS SISOLAK...IF YOUR DOING WHATS RIGHT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT MR FIREFIGTHER...
Lay a bunch of them off to control the budget!
stevie is the frickin man!!!
can you imagine...
criminal charges...
perp walks...
get that money back...
jail time...
stevie is the frickin man!!!
hey stevie...
if you ever want to run for governor...
i will be there to support you buddy...
stevie is the frickin man!!!
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
The arbitrator should have released the EXHIBITS for public scrutiny. Because these are employment issues, government consistently hides behind the exception to the open meeting law. This should not be.
Where are the other commissioners on this? Where's Brager? Collins? Where's the outrage?
And what about former Commissioners who allowed this to happen over the years?
Who is ripping off us tax payers?
The FF has long over-played the hero card...the sympathy card...the 9/11 card. They will breakout the t-shirts and Dalamations on this - you can bet.
Any FF salary over $80K is fraud - no matter how you slice the income on the paystub.
This is not rocket science folks - and it's obviously not sustainable - just do the math.
And for the FF cry babies who will no doubt - flood the County Commission meetings...I say, just go complain at your local VA hospital, VFW or Nellis E Club about how you're not fairly compensated for such 'dangerous' and 'hazordous' work!
Privatize. Fire fighters in LV are greedy and corrupt!
When the economy is humming along,it's just too easy to dish out the bennies as rewards for political support.Nobody need care to look what was being doled out,we were mostly all living high on the hog,and the public didn't demand this level of scrutiny.Now that the fat pig economy has gone to slaughter,there are some left in the economy who are trying their darnest to avoid the meat grinder at the end of the conveyor belt.Ia'm afraid that what Steve will soon uncover will prompt the public to put the F. D. first in line for that grinder.At least I hope the greed gets spit out,man o man.
Where are all the hero's , ya but . ya but ... Just admit it a fix it .
You sit in the bars blaming wall st and the bankers well then fix it already
do you need a college degree to become a fireman???
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
It has been three years since anyone in higher education has seen a cost of living increase or a pay raise, and we have all taken a 4.8% cut in salary and huge cuts in health insurance benefits. In 2011, the County gets tough on firefighters and their cost of living increase is REDUCED to two percent? I wish the media would start showing the disparity between how various public workers are being affected by budget cuts.
Good job Steve Sisolak. Keep up the good work. And firefighters ought to be policing their own and not tolerating the bad behavior. Typically it is 20% of the people abusing the system and so you 80% ought to be standing up for Sisolak and not helping your cheating buddies.
LKM: Firefighters did not have their COLAs reduced by 2 percent or any amount this fiscal year. After arbitration, their salaries will be reduced by 2 percent for the remainder of this fiscal year. In 2009, the union offered a COLA reduction from 3 percent to 2 percent, but the county rejected that offer, and the arbitrator agreed with its reasoning, because other changes tied to the COLA reduction would have resulted in an overall increase in county expenses.
Lets Privatize, Good Idea!
http://www.latefor911.com/
"Who is society?
We are.
Man can be permitted to exist only in order to serve others.
He must be nothing but a tool for the satisfaction of other's needs.
Self-sacrifice is the law of our age.
The man who refuses to submit and to serve is a man who must be destroyed." - The Fountainhead
Taxation is theft which corrupts society -- criminalizing it is the first step to civil rehabilitation.
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All City are crooks!
haha... You all realize that you are rallying behind Steve fricken Sisolak on an issue regarding monetary morality, right? Nuff said.
I support our firefighters.
Steve Sisolak plundered the county for $25 million because he bought land too close to the airport.
Now he wants to accuse county employees of racketeering because they get sick or injured doing their jobs? Screw you buddy.
Here's the deal Steve... pursue your investigation, but make sure that it is the feds doing the investigating, not any of your good old boys at Metro or the state. When the feds find no wrongdoing (and they won't, because there isn't anything to find) resign and be prepared for a libel suit against you.
You and your crew at the Sun have put some pretty direct accusations out there, but the funny thing is that you forgot a basic lesson of high school math: Show your work.
Hiding behind high salaries and rabble rousing the public because firefighters make a decent living will only take your case so far. Put out the evidence and let the public see your so called "proof." You've been making allegations for almost a year now, and the Sun publishes one of these hit pieces every other month or so, but in all of that time, you haven't shown one shred of evidence.
Put up or shut up Steve. Its time to stop taking pot shots from the shadows and prove your case. You haven't yet because you can't and you can't because there is nothing to prove.
The end.
Sunjoe you posted and I read also in the story
Base pay: $52,000
Callback pay: $23,000
Overtime: $63,000
Sick leave: $26,000
Total pay: $233,580
Last time my math and it has been a long time but that is not 233,550 dollars it is 164,000 dollars. Some where there is truth in the story but some where there is just plain bull. It appears that they are using the Captains, Batt. chiefs and other high paying people to come up with there average. The question I have to ask is do they have people that are floaters that cover for anybody that calls in sick. I am sure they don't and the question is why not. People need to get over this business I don't have a job and they do. Most of the people are casino workers and people know when things are down people don't gamble (41 year resident). What I don't get is when things was good and casino workers making good money no one bitched and I saw all the fancy cars and big homes in Las Vegas while I stilled lived in a 1600 sg ft home, but it did not bother me. I picked a job outside of the casino business and it was good to me. The firefighters pick there job, but I believe the head honchos are the biggest offenders. It seems the little guy that just works always get caught in middle. If all of you are so against the fire dept and Clark County Commissioner Steve Sisolak then why don't they make it a volunteer fire dept. see how far that will go or heck just make it a private fire dept and when the profits go down then you can bitch more when the fire dept responds in 1 hour rather than less than 5 minutes or when your rear is dying of a heart attack who saves your rear. Sisolak is playing politics like they always do. I bet you he has other interst than the fire dept. Like a fulltime politcal job. Yes for you ones that don't don't know they get partime wages. I have witiness this before in Clark County over my 41 years here. Some times it is funny to watch but they always get a few people to scream and yell to fire up the people and then they run for a different office that has more power and pays a full time wage with BENEFITS.
FIGMO: the story says "plus other benefits." And there are many. An Excel spreadsheet of firefighter pay and benefits stretches over roughly 50 columns. I did not include every single bit of pay received, such as pension contributions or health insurance payments. As for your other comments, many many articles have been written over the past two years addressing the county's financial status, the decline in tax dollars and the growing inability of the county, through taxpayers, to maintain some of the salary structures established over many decades of growth.
All i can say is WOW! I hope the firefighters and Union crossed their T's and dotted their I's.
Outrageous salaries/benes to say the least especially taking into account the required education, et al that goes into it. A very important job for sure, my hats off to them for that, but c'mon. Especially with those salary/benes packages at the very least they should be forced to take the same salary reductions and other hits that other government employees in nevada have been faced with (and for quite some time now.)
Thank you LV Sun for writing this article. Even if Sisolak was a total scumbag I fully support him in this investigation. I also cheer him on for getting the FBI to investigate racketeering.
You guys are rough. I know you hate to see these salaries, but don't get carried away with the demonization of the firefighters. They negotiated a good contract (for them) during the good times, when FF respect was at an all-time high, and now they look horrible because of the economy. I don't like the idea of long-term contracts at all, and this is what happens. All of these commissioners/unions do it, and it sucks.
I know a few FF, and we have to remember that they aren't all the same. The reports of people spitting on firefighters, or cursing them out at the store, are disgusting. Those people should be embarrassed of themselves. That's not the way to address the issue, and it just tears the community apart (sorry to sound like such a hippy, but I think it's true).
I think it's a good idea to investigate this sick leave issue and make changes so that abuse doesn't take place, but let's not get carried away and say that all firefighters are evil. I think we're better than that.
Yes, let's call in the feds and work to get all firefighters suspected of gaming the sick leave, callback, and overtime policies indicted under the federal RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) Act. Get them out of the fire department and into prisons.
Next step, fire all the firefighters, disband the union, then hire back only those firefighters willing to work for a reasonable wage, benefits, and retirement package. And finally, pass state legislation barring public sector unions.
Incidentally, I'm a liberal Democrat.
Joe,
It seems your article is rife with inaccuracies and fudging of facts to prove a point.
An obvious "mistake" is your assertion that a fire engineer's base pay is $44,000. This is simply wrong. Engineers have a significantly greater base pay. (The starting salary for a firefighter cadet - an entry level firefighter is $44K.) So all of your overtime numbers, if calculated off of that $44K figure are wrong, and puts much of the fuzzy math of this article in question.
Another point you try to hammer home here is that battalion chief overtime was reduced by 80% when the county stopped calling in overtime personnel when a battalion chief was off sick.
Well, duh. It only makes sense that o.t. pay is going to drop dramatically when the county stops calling people in on overtime. I'm surprised it didn't drop to near 100%. Including that "fact" is nothing more than a red herring to try and make Sisolak's case appear stronger. Anyone who takes the blinders off and actually reads this article critically will see that it is nothing more than a hit piece that skews facts and sneaks in language designed to inspire outrage in the reader.
This is Fox News' style of "journalism" and really disappoints me as a Sun reader.
DMFDRT, KRT78, keystone6 and others;
Why don't you separate Mr. Sisolak as a private landowner and Mr. Sisolak as a commissioner, since the two are not related. There are plenty of landowners who received settlements from the County that a jury of citizens of Clark County decided they were entitled to.
You FF's are not entitled to the BS you were granted forever. Rory and Tom Collins may not have been minding the store, but someone is now.
You should be thankful for the years of the waste and excess you have gotten away with, but times have changed for everyone and the sooner you get your brain wrapped around that idea, the sooner we can get back to making this the great country it once was.
Instead, you guys want to cry, threaten others and make arguments that make no sense beyond holding onto your excess pay and benefits, which would bankrupt the County, if you had your way.
To Keystone6: No, the $44,000 figure is accurate and taken from county salary spreadsheets. I verified the same with county staff. As for the battalion chief overtime decline: the story doesn't say their OVERTIME dropped 80 percent, it says their SICK LEAVE dropped 80 percent, the implication being that once they weren't able to benefit each other by calling in sick, they stopped doing it. But thanks for the feedback
maybevegas,
I'm not a FF. I've stated this repeatedly in other threads regarding similar articles. Other Sun commenters know me personally and can back this up.
Regardless, Mr. Sisolak's position as a commissioner is relevant when you take into account his actions that have gone against county interests. He purchased land close to the airport knowing that there were restrictions in place on the use of that land. He was told he couldn't build certain structures on that land, and instead of taking the hit he sued ALL OF US, since we foot the county's bill, and walked away a very rich man. There are certainly questions of ethics involved in his actions over the airport debacle, and that situation taints any ethics accusations he makes against others.
If Sisolak is right about people gaming the system, he should prove it and those people should be terminated. I have absolutely no qualms with such a course of action.
However, he has been thumping his chest for almost a year now with these claims, and has proven NOTHING. He has not made a case against any employee for sick time or overtime abuse to this date, even though he has the full resources of Metro, the D.A.'s staff and the state. That fact says something very clearly to me: there isn't a case to be made. Now Sisolak wants the FBI to investigate this as a RICO case? What does he think this is, some b-movie plot where he gets to play a crusader against corruption?
All I am asking is for Steve to prove his point and fire one person. Get rid of one guy who he can make a provable case against. One. The records are there, I'm sure there's some kind of paper trail. Put a couple detectives on the case, get an A.D.A. to forma grand jury and indict ONE firefighter, and then we'll have something to talk about.
Until Sisolak puts out some sort of proof, he's got nothing. He talks a huge game, and for some reason the Sun's editorial staff publishes these hit pieces, yet since March no one has been able to offer a single shred of proof in order to clean the house of these alleged sick time abusers.
WHY NOT?
Just put the proof out there, clean the house and move on.
Steve doesn't because he can't and he just likes using the paper to up his political cred. As I said before, this is piss poor journalism.
improvelv...
GOOD POINTS.
The Lynch Mob ought to rein it in a little.
Don't forget, folks; Most of your County Commissioners from just a few short years ago SERVED PRISON TIME!
Steve Sisolak is no wallflower...
He's a Big-Time Millionaire, courtesy of CLARK COUNTY TAXPAYERS. A 23.5 MILLION-AIRE.
Firefighters and their union have screwed the proverbial pooch in these negotiations, no doubt, but 2 sides negotiated and signed the contracts over the years.
Rein em' in... Absolutely!
Lynch mob? No.
Joe,
Look at Clark County's HR website. Click on the job descriptions list. It very clearly states the minimum monthly salary for each position.
http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/Depts/human...
Fire engineer minimum monthly salary is over $6K. Clearly more than $44K per annum.
However, Fire Figher I (Rookie School) minimum monthly salary is $4,293.47. According to the county's own website, an entry level firefighter still in the fire academy makes more than the fire engineer example you used for this article.
Either the county gave you some very old data, or you are using bad numbers. Either way, the accuracy of your information is in question.
Keep it up Sisolak. The public supports you.
Its about time someone in office is standing up for what is right.
Its too bad city, and north las vegas don't have this type of leadership. Take a lesson Shari Buck.
In the real world anyone who calls in sick 48 times in one year is fired......not rewarded with call back pay.
haha... You all realize that you are rallying behind Steve fricken Sisolak on an issue regarding monetary morality, right? Nuff said.
I support our firefighters.
Hey Joe; In journalism it is simpler to sound off than to find out. It is more elegant to Pontificate than it is to sweat...
I'm glad they are imposing furlough days and equipment brown-outs on firemen in LA county. Those guys are such crooks.
These firefighter "heroes" should have more than their pay reduced. They should be thrown in prison and have to repay what they stole from the taxpayer.
They've been systematically fleecing the taxpayers for years. "Heroes" indeed. When was the last time a Las Vegas fire"fighter" was seriously burned or killed fighting a fire? You can search and search and not find a single example. because it doesn't happen.
"Fighting" fires here in the valley, where the vast majority of construction is recent one or two story stucco, and all the highrises have the utmost state of the art fire suppression systems built in, is VERY SAFE.
It's NOT like being a true firefighter in NY, Chicago, SanFran, or any other large urban city with 100+ year old multistory buildings. THOSE guys are the real heroes, and they do their much more dangerous jobs for less than half what we pay these local "heroes".
Sisolak should be commended. He also is a hero. It takes alot of balls to stand up to the FF union and call them out.
Joe,
You clearly included bad information in this article. Either your source at county (likely Sisolak himself) gave you bad information, or county isn't keeping track of pay and benefits accurately. Based on publicly available information, salary data that you published as fact cannot be and is in fact not accurate.
Are you going to print a retraction/correction? Or are you going to stand by and let factually deficient journalism defame county employees?
I know it doesn't count for much, but in a journalism class I took in college, I was taught that hard news articles such as the one you've published here should be factually accurate and devoid of opinions or editorializing. It is clear that your article is written with a bias, and that bias is meant to forward a political agenda.
This article belongs on the editorial page, with much more research involved, not in the hard news section of the paper.
keystone6,
this is all publicly available information.
look at this, it's been included above but apparently you haven't looked because it contradicts your "pro-firefigter" union stance.
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
The taxpayers are being robbed by these opportunists. We simply cannot sustain it. we are broke.
Kevin Tolliver, then YOU pay for them!
Transparentnevada.com = total compensation package including retirement seperation payouts and OJI Payouts
W-2 statement = take home salary
Big difference in the two. Of course we know what the newspaper is reporting, the one that hypes the numbers!
To: Average Joe, if you are applying for a loan, which one do you use?
Simply conspiracy and theft...Any Fire Department personnel found to have participated in what is stealing from the public should be prosecuted, terminated and made to pay back the county or city... From jail if convicted...
Keystone6,
I agree with you on the base pay of fire engineer per the county website. It says it right there on your link. 44k is a lot less than the reported base salary. I think the author is reading the spread sheet wrong. If a firefighter, or anyone, calls in sick and gets sick pay, that is that employees annual salary if you combine them. On a spread sheet, it would say salary 44k and sick 30k. Add them together and you get the base salary of that employee. base salary is the same pay if you add the base salary and sick together on a spread sheet. Sick leave is just a renaming of base salary hours. One would be getting base salary wages on days they are sick. If one were to take sick the entire year, they would still be paid full base salary, just renamed sick hours. on spread sheet it would say base salary 0k, and sick hours 80k.
I am...happily and gratefully. A lot of factors go into deciding the average pay for a regional industry. Did it get out of hand? Is it "too high?" Probably, but that's an issue the public should have fought at that time... not turning a blind (read: ignorant) eye until after the fact when times got tough.
What I don't understand is the vilification of the firefighters themselves. Hate the system if you must.. not the guy who would willingly put his life on the line to save yours and your family's should, God forbid, anything ever happen to you.... but hey, I'm sure an unpaid, untrained volunteer would be just as reliable.
Uhh, Kevin (krt78), a firefighter does not "willingly put his life on the line to save yours and your family's"" Firefighters do not enter unsafe structures that may collapse at any moment, run blindly into burning buildings, or any other such life-threatening activity. You are pushing a make-believe situation in an attempt to glorify Las Vegas firefighters as heroes, which they are not. You have to go to New York City to find real firefighting heroes.
ionfield:
Firefighters here and everywhere put themselves in harm's way on a regular basis to protect people and property. It isn't just in New York or Chicago that firefighters are placed at risk to do their jobs.
If you want to question their compensation, fine. If you want to investigate whether some of them are gaming the system, great. And I encourage Sisolak to clean the house if - IF - any wrongdoing is proven.
But really, it's just a dick move to deny that the firefighters in this community, from all 4 jurisdictions, put themselves in harm's way on a regular basis.
Just a few weeks ago a NLV firefighter was sent to the burn unit after sustaining injuries while pulling someone out of a residential fire. That person survived thanks to that firefighter, by the way. You might not hear about it when it happens, you might just ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative, but the fire crews who work here face risk every day, and they've never failed to respond when called.
For that I thank them and give them my respect.
Fire all the firefighters.
Recall all retirement pay currently being paid as fraud against the people.
Ax the unions and staff the fire department with volunteer fire fighters like communities all over the nation do.
HL9000
we already established that YOU ARE A LOCAL FIRE"FIGHTER".
you crooks entire compensation package is EXACTLY what we as taxpayers need to be examining. it is OUTRAGEOUS.
And what is on MY W2 is none of your business. And I'll tell you why.
Because, I am NOT a public employee. Get it????
Keystone,
you've been watching too many reruns of "Ladder 49" and "Backdraft".
No such heroism occurs in Las Vegas firefighting, which is among the safest of medium to large metropolitan areas to be a "professional firefighter" in, for all the reasons listed above.
nobody is buying the romanticized Hollywood stereotype you pro-FF union clowns are pushing.
90% of the time they are driving around and sitting in their trucks while a couple of them put out cones and flares around traffic accidents, or answering very mundane and routine medical calls. (the other 10% of the time they are at the gym or the grocery store)
average joe,
You're anecdotal and clearly reactionary stance on the issue is really off putting. You don't like firefighters. We get it. Yet you have zero relevant information to support your assertions regarding the activities of firefighters here.
There is a clear example from NLV where a firefighter was recently hospitalized after pulling a fire victim from a burning home. That event happened. It was documented. Whether you like it or not, that firefighter saved a resident's life. That firefighter was supported by his co-workers. They did something that they were trained to do and they did it well. I am immensely confident that any other firefighter in this community would do the same thing without pause or question if they were called on to do so.
They should be lauded for their actions in response to calls for help in this community, not ridiculed by people who are blinded by political bullshat.
Who on God's green earth is STEVE MCCLINTOCK and why is this "Volunteer the highest paid Clark County employee?!?!?
His title is FIRE DEPARTMENT VOLUNTEER BUT HE MADE OVER $400K Last year!?!?!?
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
It says his base salary is $1,800....okaaaay....where the hell did the other half million dollars come from?
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK SISOLAK!!!
PS...Every single Sisolak hater is either a Fireman or a Fireman's wife. Quit stealing our MONEY. SEND THESE THEVES TO JAIL. NOTHING HAPPENS IN A VACUUM.
Keystone is a dirty firefighter who doesnt want to go back to making 85K a year like the rest of us.
I'm sorry that all you firefighters are mad that Sisolak has caught you and you think you can run and hid behind the union. Not going to work this time. You Keystone are going to jail like all the other perpetrators.
You are proof that all you firefighers are at fault
im on your side average joe...these other people hating on you are just mad that you and i agree with sisolak and 99% of the Clark County population.
Why do we need to pay firefighters $250k year to put out an occasional fire and get cats out of trees?
Firefighters play the victim card more than politicians.
"Should firefighters be criminally charged for abusing sick time?"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41201824
It appears there just may be a cleaning out of the corruption going on within county firefighters gaming the system. Here's hoping that all guilty parties are soon behind bars in prison.
Keystone,
your assertion that I "don't like firefighters" is patently false.
I have the utmost of respect and admiration for REAL FIREFIGHTERS in cities like NY, Chicago, SanFran, etc. where they truly have a dangerous job that they do for less than HALF our local "heroes" receive in taxpayer money.
Get over yourself.
Hang on tight "heroes", the taxpayer funded gravy train is about to come to a screeching halt!!!!!!
Dgrand--other than get cats out of trees, I hear that firefighters mostly do paramedic work. "Emergency" was a classic TV show, but they could never make a show featuring firemen today because everybody hates these guys so much. Maybe that's why vampires are the hot thing now--they will suck your blood but they won't suck anybody's money like public workers.
and it HAS been documented that 90% of our local fire"fighter" calls ARE routine medical and auto accident related. NOT firefighting response calls. ALL of the medical calls can and should be handled by a private ambulance service like AMS.
Good Idea: Hate your Firefighters, they are ALL abusing the system. Make no effort to understand that YOU...and YOUR CITY make due with 50%(thats 1/2)the FF's per 1000 residents that other Large Cities have. Make no effort to understand that your County Commissioners made/make Conscious decisions to keep staffing Low, then make no effort to realize that they do this to save you money. Furthermore, judge all Firemen to be overpaid: Why should a Firefighter make as much as a Operator? Or a Plumber? or an Electricial? Then Judge F.F.'s as having an "easy" job, cause you believe what others tell you. Most, if not all, of you who choose to stand with the "pack", and yell @ the top of your lungs have NEVER been a Firefighter. You have no idea what it takes to get your butt kicked all night long, shift after shift, taking care of the people who YOU love to have here. There has been abuse, it is easy to see. Steps should have been taken years ago to curb it. County Administrators should have dealt with the problem. Union Officials should have dealt with the problem. What most people do not know; or choose not to believe, is that there are basically three ways to save Money. (1)Eliminate Overtime. This can be done by shutting down units, or by Hiring more FF's. (2)Reduce Services. Shut down Stations, Shut down units as needed/day. If Vacancies exist, do not fill them for that day. (3) Pay FF's less. This is what most want. Lets pay our FF's less/hour than a Janitor. Lets pay him/her $15 an hour...BINGO...here is your answer. Forget that we have half the FF's of other Metro Areas. Forget that your elected officials establish staffing levels. Forget that you know nothing about the Job, but Remember that you feel strong when you Hate....with Others. Firefighters do not make too much Money. Period. Most Firefighters work too much though. Wow, maybe thats why they make so much money. "I wonder why they work so much"? Gee...maybe it is because the County Commisioners have not hired enough PEOPLE to fill positions without paying excessive Overtime....Why haven't the County Commissioners hired more FF's? Because they have to get Re-Elected. Because they have little success in doing so, IF they actually tell YOU(public) how things work downtown. Because they would be trying to do what I am doing right now. Do you think you would vote for me? Exactly. There is little real worthwhile information in any Media today. Very few will/would take any time to "try" and explain anything to a group, whether it be on-line, in other Media, or in person. This country has become the "Land of the attack dogs". If you have more than me, I am going to attack you. If you make an effort to aquire, and secure a good, decent career, I will attack you. If you work for the GOVERNMENT, I will attack you. Soon, the "attack dog" is chewing off his own foot, but it does not matter. The "Reason" is worth the pain. Carry On............
remember what reagan did for the air traffic controllers ? enough is enough. they have an attitude of being a gift to mankind. replace them one at a time, make take a while but it will be worth it. planes are still flying.
use_your_head
the entire premise of your pro-Vegas-FF argument is flawed.
bottom line, they have a MUCH easier and MUCH safer job than firefighters in large metropolitan areas with 100+ year old multistory construction. nobody is believing your assertion that we are somehow "understaffed" on fireman by HALF. BS.
and true firefighter heroes in large metro areas like NY, Boston, Chicago, SanFran, etc do a MUCH more dangerous job for roughly HALF what we allow our local heroes to fleece us taxpayers for.
and as far as this argument that they are "serving mankind" lol, and sacraficing for the rest of us. more BS. they have been CAUGHT with their hands in the till, with their "sick leave" racket to further extract more undeserved wages from us the taxpayer. and if their supervisors making 300k a year knew about it, they should be thrown in prison, if the didn't know about it, they should be fired for incompetence.
the firefighting profession, much like the military, offers other perks besides pay, many stay in the military for the camaraderie that is a hallmark of service; firefighters enjoy the same type of environment, and this is one of the reasons those working in much more dangerous and HIGHER COST OF LIVING cities are willing to do the job for MUCH LESS.
it is time to break up this racket.
http://www.latefor911.com/
average_joe, and others. Recently, a retired Fire Chief from the Chicago area submitted a "letter to the editor" of one of our Local Papers. He stated that Firefighting Risks are essentially the same, regardless of Locale. You do not believe this. Then you state that the only "real" FF's are those who work in selected Cities, your selected Cities at that. Do some research on staffing levels for Fire Departments around the Country. You are not getting anywhere near the coverage, and protection of other Metro Areas. These are facts. You make the decision that "we" are getting enough Fire Protection. That is what I would consider B.S.
I did not make ANY argument about "serving mankind". I suspect you will not take the inititive to contact your Commissioner. I suspect you will not ask any of the questions I submitted in my previous post. I believe this because I have little faith in the abilities of our populace. Many simply choose to attack, as you do.
Other FF's do not work for MUCH LESS. They do work less. The "problem" is too much Overtime. Call your Commissioner, and ask/tell him/her to hire more Firefighters. Of Course, you would rather attack dog the whole problem, because you think in little packets. How about you go attack County Managers, for allowing excessive Sick Leave Use/Abuse.
What most who post here do not realize is this: MOST Citizens of Clark County Respect their FF's. Most are ABLE to differentiate between several who have screwed the system, and the rest that go to work, respect the public, and provide a needed service. Whether you believe it or not: There are many who appreciate what we do. Your "packet" mind allows you to believe ours is any easy Job, that anyone can do it, etc.
Ronny Reagan is a hero to some, mostly pro-business. IMO, he started the decline of the American Middle Class. IMO, this countries primary foundation is Manufacturing. Reagans trickle down ecomony has dripped on our heads, it does not smell good. In Case you have not noticed, Corporate America is alive and well, outsourcing Jobs to other Countries. Corporate America does not give a damn about you..me...or the middle class. Corporate Profits are much more important than a healthy, stable, WORKING middle class.
Tell your Commissioner to Discipline employees who abuse sick leave. I suspect in the years to come, our Fire Departments in the Las Vegas Area will eliminate Overtime as it is now. What does that mean to you? I suspect you will feel that we; correctly, will not make so much money. Thats OK. I don't like working Overtime. I do not budget my Life based on Overtime. I do not abuse Sick Leave. I do not call in sick, so others may get Callbacks. The Firefighters of the Las Vegas Valley do an Excellent Job of providing their Mandated Services. Any FF's who "game" the system for additional Monies/Retirement should be Disiplined. YOU are the only one(s) that can make that happen....Do It.
@use your head....Everyone is laughing at your posts. How much time do you waste writing them? You are obviously hurt by this and we have hit a sensitive spot. That's okay, don't feel bad that you are a sensi.
To me, this story deserves more pub than the Eric Scott vs Metro Police. (btw, in my opinion the police did the right thing and the Scott family is just adding insult to their own injury by dragging the lawsuits out). If anything, it is the police who deserve the overtime and the ungodly-like pay. They are the ones putting themselves in danger every day, not some money-grubbing system-working firefighter whose biggest danger 99% of the time is to put flares out on the freeway while they lift someone into an ambulance.
Chill out.
Use-your-head posts:
"MOST Citizens of Clark County Respect their FF's."
Wrong AGAIN "hero". You greedy hacks manipulated the system and ripped us taxpayers off so badly that you have LOST the respect of the vast majority of the citizens of Clark County.
You should've taken a few small cuts 2-3 years ago before the truth got out and so many citizens realized you highschool educated clowns with family connections on the department were making more money than heart surgeons, with unmatched in this country benefits and retirement benefits.
I'll say it again: Hold on tight, "heroes", the taxpayer funded gravy train is about to come to a screeching halt!
Everyone HERE is laughing. This would be expected. dgrand...great logic. I am hurt, and trying to feel better. Actually, I am disgusted by those who write here, with free abandon, and without consequence. Metro puts themselves in danger every day. Correct. You do not put yourselfs in Danger, but choose to Monday Morning Quaterback those who do, by your standards. Your Vast Experience and know-it-all bleed through along with most other posts here. The angry leading the angry, the TEA party of Clark County. Fire them all, replace them with those who will be "better". Continue with your Rants, and name calling, I'm sure you feel more important. You have not done anything to actually solve the problem. Continue to write Nothing other than personal statements. Call People names, and insult individuals you do not know. This is how 3rd Grade works. Pull up your socks, and go out the door, learn something, do something. I doubt it
use-your-head posts:
"Other FF's do not work for MUCH LESS. They do work less. The "problem" is too much Overtime."
What a crock. this has been debunked over and over again. you clowns are gaming the system and yet you continue to pretend to be overworked and underpaid. it is possible for you to get so much overtime because you have so much down time during your shifts. this is why every time I go to a 24 hour fitness I see a Fire Truck parked out front, which is still there when I leave an hour later (as I work out on my own unpaid personal time, like the rest of us lowly citizens). this is why so many times when I go to the grocery store, I see the same truck parked out front, as you "heroes" shop for your groceries while being paid a king's ransom. this is why you are all getting PLENTY of sleep on your shifts.
And DON"T try to BS us that you are working through the night and not getting much sleep. If that were even remotely the case you would simply not be allowed to work overtime, as it would create too much of a liability for the city and county to have sleep deprived employees driving around in those huge firetrucks. After a single accident caused by a sleep deprived fire"fighter", the lawyers would have a field day. It is NOT an issue because you clowns are NOT sleep deprived.
This is why it is NOT allowed for police officers (true heroes with a truly dangerous job in this city) to work the type of overtime you do. It would be too much of a liability, because a sleep deprived police officer might make a poor decision or be unable to react in a life or death situation.
You then go on to post:
"Ronny Reagan is a hero to some, mostly pro-business. IMO, he started the decline of the American Middle Class. IMO, this countries primary foundation is Manufacturing. Reagans trickle down ecomony has dripped on our heads, it does not smell good. In Case you have not noticed, Corporate America is alive and well, outsourcing Jobs to other Countries. Corporate America does not give a damn about you..me...or the middle class. Corporate Profits are much more important than a healthy, stable, WORKING middle class."
What a bunch of dribble. You attack conservatism because you are a government employee, living large off of the backs of taxpayers working in the private sector.
And QUIT pretending to be standing up for the working middle class. It has already been established you "heroes" are making MORE than 99% of wage earners in this country, despite your relatively safe government jobs in a city with a low to moderate cost of living. You are hardly "working middle class."
We (the taxpayers) AIN'T buying what you're selling.
looks like HL9000 and use-your-head have been beaten into submission by the facts.
Good fight, Joe. Don't give up! You are correct! I've been in a high-rise in New York that was on fire and engulfed in flame several stories above ground and those are REAL firemen that come to the rescue.
Ax them all and make the force fully volunteer. There is nothing to accident response which is 90% of the calls.
We have plenty of firefighters living in this city that are former volunteers in their old, home communities who would train new volunteers. It is not an unimaginable idea.
Simply get rid of these corrupt firefighters whose only risk and "life on the line" is from the fat of the steaks dinners they indulge in.
P.S. re; "looks like HL9000 and use-your-head have been beaten into submission by the facts."
Their shift ended and they went home...to count their money...like mobsters do after a skimming operation.
Cliff,
it's great to see the people of our city are waking up to the rampant fraud and gaming of the system by these self-proclaimed "heroes".
they rode the coat-tails of the true heroes of 9/11, the men and women of FDNY, to extract these ridiculous contracts from the corrupt county commission (thank god for Steve Sisolak - finally a county commissioner who is looking out for us).
"And another thing...
...taking time off for minor, third-degree burns and smoke inhalation."
Do you have a clue about third degree burns, I think not. I received one working hot tar roofing and i had to have a skin graft and was off work for three months. And do you have a clue what is in the smoke that fires put off.
I don't think so, more people die these days of smoke inhalation than of the fire actually getting to them. And yes the smoke is extremely DEADLY.
Now that said do you have any idea about firefighting, probably not. NFPA sets standards and in some cities and counties arround the united states fires are being fought with a lot less men and equipment and people are dieing in those fires.
In December of 2010 at one point civilians had to assist the Gary Fire Department in laying a 5 inch hose line because the city has laid off and shut down so many firefighters and stations that some companies are running with just the engineer and the officer.
And yes firefighters in other areas face major difficulties and our firefighters thankfully don't see the same workload as they do in NY and Boston and Camden and St Louis but that does not make the job any less dangerous.
And to those that are bitching about the Hero Card let me ask you this would you be willing to run into a burning building where you cannot see a foot in front of your face, would you be willing to crawl down a hallway with fire blowing over your head, and would you be willing to give you life to search for a missing person? I do not think so, last week a firefighter in Maryland died in the line of duty doing just that he was searching for somebody in a apartment fire that flashed over and he died that day to his injuries, he was 43 years old and left a wife and kids behind.
Last year everybody was complaining about Metro and this year your already starting in about the firefighters. But yet if your house was on fire, or is your child was trapped, or if you were in a major car accident of course you would scream bloody murder if they could not make it due to be at work.
Yes the volunteer system is fantastic for some cities but do you realize that it takes anywhere from three to ten additional minutes to get volunteers to the station and out the door. And that is in smaller areas of the country.
Yes our hotels and high rises are very well protected but they will and can burn sprinklers just keep the fire in check they are not fool proof. And be thank full that we have the fire codes and standards that we have here because we are the luck ones. At least once a week I read on line of fires that kill or maim or crisper or injure both firefighters and civilians and I have been in buildings that were suppose to be fire proof and believe me they burn and they burn very hot.
"Steve Sisolak plundered the county for $25 million because he bought land too close to the airport."
Very well said Keystone6 very well said and then the man wanted to participate in the votes on other items that were similar to the lawsuit he won. So what makes him so spotless and clean. He could put that 25 million back into the county and help the budget issues.