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Published Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011 | 9:30 a.m.
Updated Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011 | 2:30 p.m.
Developers laid out plans today for a 150-acre master-planned development near the UNLV campus that would include retail space and residential housing, with a 40,000-seat domed stadium as its centerpiece. The plans by billionaire real estate businessman Ed Roski and Silverton Casino Lodge president Craig Cavileer would bring UNLV football games to campus, replacing Sam Boyd Stadium. It would also provide a new home for the UNLV basketball team and stave off efforts by other cities to move the National Finals Rodeo out of Las Vegas. The stadium and retail district would be built on property adjacent to the Thomas ...
Sun reporter Rick Velotta contributed to this report.
"Thomas & Mack Center would be remodeled into a commercial and retail center next to the stadium."
Into what?
This is really good - because traffic near the airport isn't bad enough...
unlvnow.com
Uh.... WOW!
BTW... I would figure if this comes to pass, we will have some serious improvement in overall education... Just based on the students that will want to attend!!
The Thomas and Mack Center is just fine. There is no need to make the Rebels play in a football stadium and share with the football team. This isn't Syracuse. The T&M is a great stadium with enough modern ammenities. If anything they should build a smaller arena for the bball team. If UNLV had an arena the size of Cameron, Allen Fieldhouse, or Crisler Arena they would sell out every game. All those stadiums fit between 11,000-16,000. But because the T&M fits 18,000+ the stadium never looks sold out. The Rebs usually average around 13,000 fans/game unless it is a big rivalry matchup. Plus there is a lot of history at the T&M. The new stadium would just kill that. In an earlier article the Sun made it sound like the T&M was ancient because it was a 1/4 of a century old. Whoa, a whole 25 yrs old. Plus the plans to remodel the T&M just sounds absurd. A commercial and retail center? Really?
I'm all for the new football stadium proposal. The football team needs a stadium on campus so that more students and fans in the city can come to watch the game. Sam Boyd is crap and nobody likes traveling out to the Las Vegas wash to watch a game. If the new stadium gets built UNLV may actually have a chance to recruit and compete with teams like Boise St in conference. With TCU, Utah, and BYU all gone next year UNLV could actually build a decent football program.
So where do ppl park?
Build it... Build it NOW!!!
This would change UNLV from just an average commuter school into one of the best Universities on the West Coast!!!
Check out the link...
Parking is under all the new student residence that they plan on adding....
And they are going to renovate the T&M and keep it for Rebel Basketball...
This arena it "transforming" according to the mock ups... So we could have NBA, or a much larger crowd for NFR...
Not to mention what this will do for student life at UNLV is huge!!...
Will be a great environment.
They need to have a Yard House in there.
I can see other conference tournaments comming to Vegas.
Hey Rick Velotta,
What do the red lines on the "proposed area's location" image mean?
Couldn't the rendering be in the school colors or is this project destined to be the "Cheeto Bowl"?
Has anyone else noticed that Swenson Street kind of disappears and no longer connects to Tropicana and the airport in this proposal?
Let's see...residential housing (hopefully for students) cause we don't need my housing in LV...Commercial space? mmmmm, do we have enough vacancies as well? I am all for the stadium as long as Perinni doesn't build it..everything they build winds up in court for over-runs and quality issues...Every hotel and CC is still in court from the one's they touched..
the red lines are where the existing streets are/would be if ther arena is built. That way you can get a better idea of where it would sit.
I swear the people that come to this site could be told they are each getting a million dollars with absolutely no strings, and would still find a way to poo on it...
This could be really big for the community at large... In case you have not noticed there is not exactly a lot of things available to the locals, that as well as educated work force and cost to do business here have always been serious stopping point for diversification in this town...
Guess what, this helps bolster a major university and will turn it into a premier education facility, and also give residents something to get excited about...
And Turribila (sorry if that is wrong)... while it appears there is not any education facilities planned, there does appear to be a huge investment in student life involved here... Looks like based on preliminary workups to the total of about 3000 residences... That is a huge potential student influx!! Meaning UNLV can start to be a bit more picky about who gets to attend...
So crap on it if you want, but a 25 year resident, lets do it!!!
Private money putting their money where their mouth and dreams are. The way it should be.
Will be a nice addition to UNLV and hopefully the guys putting up the big bucks can also get a decent return on their money.
If this is built, we have no need for another arena in Las Vegas.
DonMega,
The red lines do not represent where roads are now; if they represent where roads would go, then it would have a road running through the district they want to build at Swenson and Trop. I don't think the red represents roads.
Cavileer said he didn't know the cost of the project.
"It's far too early to tell the price tag," he said.
Does this mean Cavileer isn't concerned about cost because he can afford it or because he expects local government to pay for it?
ChickenLittle,
Excuse some of us having concerns as to the costs to Nevada residents of this project. Only we have been down this road with the monorail, Springs Preserve and Neonopolis.
Tigermike,
EXACTLY. When I read that line, I saw red. It's a cynical line of garbage that is getting it's intended effect: fake out the gullible one's posting on this thread. Roskie and Cavi are preparing a MULTI-BILLION DOLLLAR SWINDLE of the residents of Las Vegas and Nevada.
Oh, and forget about those pie-in-the-sky promises of a venue for events like the NFR *AND* and pro basketball team. The rodeo is a ten day event which blocks out closer to two weeks' of time when including set-up and tear-down. No NBA team is going to agree to go on the road for two straight weeks, every single year. This fantasy plan wouldn't allow for a team to hold practice here, let alone play, during that entire time.
Okay, that looks like a giant red ark leaving UNLV - is that supposed to symbolize something?
The "commercial development" is just going to be another canned version of Town Square -- trendy clothing retailers, expresso shops, a sports bar or two. And the proposed dormitory structures are bribes to the university, at the same time they are efforts to create captive customers for those trendy shops. But college students are on limited budgets and won't be able to support the high rents these shops will charge.
But hey, when did a developer around this town ever care about the long-term lack of viability of a project they were pushing? They cash out long before the pain hits.
This is 150 acres of choice property -- OWNED BY YOU AND ME -- these developers are hoping to get/use for free. AND, we're going to get slapped with paying off a billion dollars of bonds for the next thirty years (that's the part Cavi refuses to answer, when asked about cost).
It would be nice to add SOME Vegas history to the thing instead of a design or facade that could be anywhere else in the country. You know, a fountain or pirate show in front. Maybe a volcano and gondaleers. The LEAST they can do is use some flashing neon in the name of the thing!
Vegas is dead, this will not do anything to help. There's a reason people don't want to send their kids to UNLV. You can figure this out for yourself.
They better not dare try to pawn this off on the tax payers especially given the state of everything else in this city.
Use your own money, and definitely have someone redesign that stadium because it is ugly.
I tried to vote "no" but it kept giving me an error, nice biased poll you got going here.
The Rodeo would be better off in Texas, I never understood why it's in Vegas.
You are just further proving my point... With the angry responses....
1) They have not stated anything yet about financing... Preliminary statements are calling for a land lease and a tax district on just newly built out retail... So how bout we cross that bring when we get their... You want to find out more they are gathering with the Board of Regents on the 11th... That is the best place to make your opinion known...
2) This would be great for the community at large period... I personally like the idea of having other options for me and my family besides sitting in a smokey casino and looking at all the smiling faces p!$$ing away their pay checks... Not to mention the added benefits UNLV will see...
My point is this guy that is involved is a heavy hitter... he built out the Staples Center and LA Live (I don't think LA is complaining)... This is the first proposal with some real legs at a neutral site... So before crying about it, how about we all kind of enjoy the possibility of something good happening to Vegas and see what this guy is going to bring to the table...
Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who grew up here... Graduated UNLV.... And owns a home here... I love this community and would be more then willing to finally see my tax dollars go into something good...
look's like Noah's Ark
I was pretty skeptical of the whole idea, but after looking over the plans and reviewing the background of Majestic, I'm all in. I agree with some of the comments here that this could really transform UNLV into one of the major universities in the southwest United States.
UNLV is currently a commuter campus with few on-campus housing options (and few out-of-state students). Development like this would likely attract a lot of out-of-state students who could live in dorms on campus and who would transform UNLV from a local university to a national university.
It appears that UNLV and the County will donate land (which isn't being used for much anyway), the sales tax increases would likely be isolated to the areas being developed, and Majestic has the reputation and experience to do this quickly and effectively.
I like the idea...I think it would be a big step forward for UNLV and Las Vegas.
So your either trolls, or really unpleasant people to be around regularly...
I am just perplexed how miserable the people are that get on this site... although I will say I am not the least bit surprised by your responses....
If this is mostly privately funded and does not cost the university money, then why not build it? I think its a great concept.
As an Alumni and Tax payer/homeowner, I also agree that this would be a great contribution to the university. Some of you trolls have no idea what a great college team can do for the moral of a city.
Think about it... No more 90 to 100 degree heat during UNLV football games probably increases attendance on its own. Far less commute than Sam Boyd. Can house larger basketball events (NBA all-star/Preseason games, NCAA regional tournaments, possibly championships), Pre-season football (huge "if"), Major boxing events, UFC events that smaller casino arenas can't accommodate, Keep NFR (which is one of the biggest money makers for UNLV and the City). Can it be converted for Pre-season baseball?
The extra dorms are nice, but really the dorms are never fully filled anyway. At least when I went there. Possibly they could convert the old dorms in to new classrooms?
There is too much upside for this not to be realized. If my Tax dollars mean supporting a new arena on campus count me in and I'll see you at the games!
Not much information. Now it is 150 acres? How much public money will this involve, including the upgrade to streets in the area? Still no answers to the question.
How do you rebel fans feel about seat licenses? This is where this is headed.
I guess the details will come out when the negotiaitons are over.
I agree with the comment above that people don't want to send their kids to UNLV. I doubt this will change anything.
What was the designer smoking? It's ugly!
Chicken,
Speak for yourself, I'm pretty happy. But spend for yourself, too. What part of the "public/private" finance scam do you not get? We're talking the better part of a billion dollars of publicly owned land, and probably over a billion dollars of taxpayer financed bonds that will pay for this. You are naive if you don't see this. And don't compare us to L.A. For starters, So. Cal has close to ten times the population base we have to support it's teams and to shoulder the burden of the welfare-for-the-rich scam that financed the Staples Center. Nevertheless, the folks over there have been smart enough to vote-down Roski's repeated attempts to get those taxpayers to finance his attempts to profit from building a football stadium in Carson, or wherever those various plans have included.
We here in Nevada have far more important things to do with the precious and dwindling public dollars that we do have (see front pages of newspaper). More real estate scams and corporate welfare are not on the "to do" list.
Let's see: a new stadium will make UNLV the best school in the west. Meanwhile, the state is starving the teachers, curriculum, departments, so that we will only attract those who can't go anywhere else, and have the money to pay, pay, pay. Looks like a real "educational" win. [snark]. And, unless the parking is built simultaneously, how will people get to it? The new student housing will no doubt require state of Nevada money, so there is no chance it will be build, and thus no garage or parking spaces. I know, they'll all take the Clark-county-wide monorail that we were promised. Or new bus routes that will have no buses because there isn't money to buy them or run them.
Time to discuss these issues and fund them completely BEFORE the new stadium.
where are the students supposed to park? Where will the parking be for this facility?
Last thought before I have to head out: please stop with the ridiculous notions that, somehow, a football stadium will make UNLV a "great school." NONSENSE. Study the NCAA report released in 2010. Not only do even the successful (ie, 'money-making') programs barely contribute a dime to non-athletic revenues, but when you factor in monies contributed BY the universities for atheletics (scholarships and other expenses), it's a losing proposition.
This won't help UNLV improve in it's real mission one iota. It's a loser. Instead of devoting precious resources to students and academics, it will be a drain and will bankrupt us. All because the gullible of you are swayed by glitzy artists' renditions of Town Square-like commercial space.
The land they are planning to build on id University property. That is what that red line designates. So if the university is willing to give up this land to improve the campus then so be it.
Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
unlvnow.com may clarify some of your arguments..
This project is absolutely meaningless in terms of the overall academic performance of UNLV as an institution. But it certainly should increase the morale of UNLV top administrators and NSHE Board of Regents, who currently have nothing to look forward to for UNLV's foreseeable future. And I don't understand the Smatresk assertion that building this piece of non-academic infrastructure will "enhance student success" and increase student retention and graduation. That happens in the classroom with happy, productive, and qualified faculty. I guess the UNLV president had to say something about this thing. So he said that.
"Majestic Realty plans to ask the Nevada Legislature to create a University Enterprise District, Cavileer said. The company would retain tax revenue generated within the district, which would provide a future income stream that would allow Majestic to secure early financing, he said."
In other words the public will pay for it through taxes. All revenues public and private will flow to the company under this scenario. No. No No.
@Turrialba In other words. The Tax District could be temporary until the development is complete. The taxes would be imposed on the area itself so in essence, the University Community and the development would pay for itself. Paid for by the people that use it. What is the problem?
samjung23 and Turrialba:
You two obviously are one of the recent newcomers that came to vegas during the boom years of the last decade. It's people like you that made Vegas what it is now (sorry if I offended anyone else). I bet you two came here to make a few bucks off the housing market and then leave. Guess what I was raised here, went to the public schools here, and even graduated from UNLV. I have an interest and an investment in Las Vegas and what the future holds. I'm excited to see some good news for UNLV and Las Vegas. I want to see UNLV become a first tier university. Unlike you two I would send my kids to UNLV. Turrialba UNLV might not be your beloved Phoenix University ;) but in the near future UNLV will be the premier university of the southwest. Not all news is doom and gloom.
P.S. Is it just me or what? Why do most people that comment seem so sarcastic?
Rebel_Fan:
The tax district is a revenue stream used to guarantee the financing.
This doesn't sound like a bridge loan or a temporary but a permanent arrangement to secure lower cost financings with a secure revenue stream. Probably the only way to get financing for this type of project in Vegas these days.
Essentially they are privatizing tax dollars to subsidize their project. Taxes belong to the public to support public programs. Further, it puts a private developer at a disadvantage. If a special tax district wants to impose additional taxes, other than those everyone else pays, that is different.
I give...
There are always going to be people in the room that are just never happy...
Majestic is saying no taxpayer money would be used, but how can they say that when Majestic doesn't know the cost or the revenue projection from a newly created tax-district.
A few questions arise. What if the tax revenues from the newly created district were insufficient to cover the costs?
What Majestic is asking for is the land to build this on for free and the cost to be paid through tax payers. Yes, I understand that only revenue from the tax district is claimed to be used, but removing this tax district from local government shifts the burden on to everyone outside it.
In short every tax payer will have to pay more taxes to off-set the loss of this newly created tax district. If this was for 5 years then this might be okay, but I suspect Majestic wants this tax district to run for 20-30 years.
Again, I must come back to the biggest area of concern, what if the tax district fails to raise enough money to meet the costs? Who is liable for the shortfall?
@iamdjrebel
My beloved University of Phoenix? I have never mentioned the name of that institution.
As for your love of the project great. Pay for it with your money and not the public's.
Hope it gets done, it's a great project!!!! Jobs, future reputation, better life for residents, money for the university, a place for young people & teens.
http://www.unlvnow.com/index-1.html
Be careful carlos... Optimism is frowned upon here... LOL
If something seems too good to be true, it probably is exactly that.
People should be wary. Too many of these public-private parterships have turned into major fiascos here and elsewhere in terms of dollars and litigation.
Yes, Build it. It is a win-win scenario for everyone!
I was wondering where Marvin the Martians helmet was!!!!
One thing thats missing from this project is the already being built Mendenhall Center... They wouldn't tear down a brand new basketball training facility would they? Also, what would become of the Cox Pavilion? Would the Lady Rebels/volleyball/any other sport that uses that facility be relocated? So many questions, so few answers. But I'm still all for it!
So the public has put up 41 acres and a special tax district. What is the developer bringing to the table other than conceptual plans?
Show me the money boys.
Blind optimism is stupid and unhelpful in the long run.
It really shows how uneducated Las Vegans and Americans are to think that a new stadium will make a university the premier institution in the area.
I'm not going to spoonfeed any of you. Just think for a second why that doesn't sound right, then get back to me.
Forty-one acres?? The very first line of the story states that the plan is for 150 acres -- 150 acres of prime real estate that BELONGS TO YOU AND ME. But now we're are supposed to give it away to this private interest. Additionally, I promise you that in addition to the tax revenues this private interest wants to usurp as a "revenue stream" that will supposedly be enough to pay for this, the state and county will be required to guarantee the financing. Lenders won't just fork over dollars in the billions without the taxpayer co-signing. Local tax payers are ALWAYS left holding the bag.
As Turrialba asks, I also want to know what skin is Majestic putting in the game? This is a lose-lose proposition for the taxpayer, for students, for the community. But Majestic has picked its marks wisely. There are plenty of suckers out there swallowing this hustle -- just look at many of the posters, here.
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!
Now our cabbies will even more reason to longhaul our visitors thru the tunnel!
Clifton,
Earlier today there was a map attached to this story that is not here now (not the one that is part of the slide show) that had the cox pavillion and the mendenhall center buildings visible. The Lady Rebs would be fine.
We could finally have a home Rebel B-Ball game at the same time as NFR in early December. Kruger and the boys will love that.
"THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!"
Has been known to happen to domed football stadiums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_uscBJn0...
@DTJ--41 acres was the estimate for the stadium that was being kicked around the other day.
Today it is 150 acres and an urban village.
I agree with your assessment about this deal. The tax district is only the first part. There is the leasing of university property to the developers. I wonder what sort of deal that will involve. There is also talk of donations in the article. Are we turning the keys over to the university to this developer?
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. If this deal happens it will be far more complex than described today. I can't see how they can do this without major road improvements in and around the university. I wonder who will pay for those?
Apparently, few proponents of the plan have to actually park on campus to attend or teach classes, because it is already nearly impossible to find parking on campus (unless you have a reserved parking spot in front of your building like the President and other "VIPs"). Have you ever tried to park on campus to attend a class during the National Finals Rodeo, for example? If the plan does not ADD parking for students and faculty--closer to academic buildings--it should be opposed. The last remaining large parking lot on campus is going to be turned into a modest 40,000 seat stadium, which is half or third the capacity of most programs mentioned as benchmarks? Is the size that small because they can't find parking for larger numbers? Will the school be so transformed by an influx of residential students that the parking problem will go away? Is Thomas and Mack going to be turned into a parking garage?
@DTJ - your comments about the lack of proof that a relationship exists between athletics and academics are comical and nothing but a series of halftruths and misinformation.
- Athletic boosters also donate in other areas of the university. Ask the folks in Eugene if they feel Phil Knight has helped their university. Ask the folks in Stillwater if T Boone Pickens has helped OSU in areas other than athletics. This is true because...
- Athletics drives the relationship between alumnus and alma mater. DTJ, could you name me the last time 40,000 people paid to watch the debate team? Does Michigan get 100,000 in the big house to watch the science teams square off?
- Great sports teams drive more students=more tuition. Study after study proves that enrollment increases along with the success of athletics. Then again, real life also proves this. Go to any dorm in the Big10 or SEC and ask those kids how big of a role the sports teams played in their college decision.
- Great sports teams drive huge apparel and licensing revenue. Don't see many MIT hoodies out there...but I do see tons of successful D1 college program gear.
- Successful athletic programs are self funding and thus do not need state funds. Hence the money earmarked for the athletic dept. can be used in other areas of the university.
I think the red line is most likely the property owned by UNLV.
JahReb,
Your post is a pack of myths and lies.
Now for the truth: Collegiate football revenues are almost entirely consumed by the football programs themselves, with small surpluses going to other athletics, NOT academics. Even the very wealthiest football programs, like Notre Dame (bringing in something north of $100 mil) only contribute about two million dollars to non-athletic purposes. And for the less than elite football programs, the numbers get worse: for Football Championship Subdivision programs, only TWO PERCENT of football programs have a surplus of revenues.
And none of this factors in the multi-millions required by schools to contribute TO the football programs, by way of scholarships. Read the 2010 NCAA's report on athletic revenues and learn something.
If you're going to talk "facts", JahReb, get yours straight.
JahReb, does any of that strike you as WRONG?
This is a university. It's supposed to be all about academics, not about sports teams.
Do you see international universities engaging in this nonsense?
Oh, and as for this following stupidity, "DTJ, could you name me the last time 40,000 people paid to watch the debate team? Does Michigan get 100,000 in the big house to watch the science teams square off?," I'll respond by saying that I CAN tell you the last time a quality institution of higher learning drove innovation, local business, and contributed to the greater good of a regional economy. Answer: EVERYWHERE. From Boston, home to Harvard and that MIT you belittle, to Triangle Park in North Carolina, to Pittsburgh's renaissance (Duquense Univ., Univ. of Pittsburgh, Carnegie-Mellon) to the Berkeley-Stanford driven Silicon Valley, thriving regions are nurtured and driven by local pools of academic excellence. NOT football bleachers.
But thanks for the knuckle-dragger's roadmap for our children's future (a football stadium!). I'll take the academic achievement/innovation/prosperity option. That is, if there's any funding left over after budget cuts and bond payments for boondoggles.
Samjung,
"Do you see international universities engaging in this nonsense?"
Excellent point. Football programs and bloated athletic budgets are an American obsession. The East Asians are kicking are butts and not losing any time farting around with football and merchandising from apparel.
DTJ, not trying to be the devil's advocate, but there is a solid reason university areas are prosperous, and it's not always because of the academics. A lot of super-wealthy children of the rich from all over the country, and the world go to these schools. Many in them major in some junk degree and actually want to stay in the area. So right then and there, you have a kid with a mega trust fund and wealthy family bringing their money to the area. In a way, it's almost like Las Vegas. There is incredible wealth in the university areas, but as soon as you leave there for the surrounding area, it is as poor as anywhere else. It's almost like the university area has no positive effect on the area.
Samjung,
You've kind of strayed off on your own, on that one. A few kids that become "professional students" are neither here, nor there, when it comes to the big picture regarding college communities, or greater economic regions.
In any event, good local, schools produce both cutting edge start-ups and organic growth, as well as talented, educated labor pools that attract employers. This is why UNLV needs to focus on its mission, and not get suckered into making a few wealthy men even wealthier.
They want it and they should pay for it. The public should pay zero for this project. The public does not subsidize the construction of casinos. This is a private project. I resent having to pay sales tax on something that would benefit these developers. Who do they think they are.
What this means is jobs. At least 3,000 construction jobs which tyically generate 2 more jobs per construction job! That's 9,000 jobs before it even opens. Once it opens there will be thousands of jobs to run it, part time jobs for UNLV students etc. They will be able to have more people attend events that are currently always sold out. They can have more and bigger events which will fill hotel rooms. This of course means more JOBS! We need jobs in this town more than anything else. The only thing that is going to make a dent in our unemployment is building things that attract more visitors and things that make getting here easier. It's common sense!
9,000 jobs -- that's a dream. For that matter, so is the figure of 3,000 direct jobs. At peak employment, I think CityCenter had about 6,000 workers going at it. This will be much smaller. Jobs will be finished much more quickly. It's just kicking the can down the street for construction workers, who really need to learn new skills.
But the billions of public debt will be with us for decades. Let's quit this foolishness and do something much more productive with our time and money.
Thanks William. Surprisingly enough, Lady Rebs games are a lot of fun! Sure they don't win a lot of games, but anything you say, whether it be to the referees, players, coaches, or whomever will be heard in the Cox. Its fantastic.
Anyone know how this will compare to the Carrier Dome?
@surfbh, the only new jobs this will create are temporary construction jobs. There was a stadium before and the new one will not create any new jobs. I don't think this is a smart move for UNLV.
@DTJ, I didn't say they would become professional students. I said they would settle in the area with the money they got from daddy. There's no guarantee that good universities will create hubs of industry and business. The real Silicon Valley and other high-tech areas will just recruit all the good talent away anyways. Any semblance of wealth in a college town, as I've said before, comes from all the rich kids who want to remain in the area. In the place I came from, that's what happened. Yeah, there are high-tech companies around and start-ups, but is it a good place to find a job? Not at all. Vegas will always be Vegas. A dumb stadium is not going to do much for the area. Vegas will have to change a lot of things if it wants to have a respectable university and city. One idea would be to follow Monte Carlo's example, and ban residents from gambling in the local casinos. That would clear out a lot of the trash from the city.
I can't believe there is people opposing growth. The University is trying to do the best they can with limited resources. Beyond the revenue this project would give the university, they envision of a beautiful non commuter campus (shopping, movie theater, restaurants, hotel, dorms etc .) This will attract more out of state and international students. As you know out of state and international students pay 5 times the regular in state tuition. UNLV has around 6% international and can be a lot more. UNLV is the main university in the city and Las Vegas residents should be proud of it, love it and help it. All the angry people that is jealous because they are not successful and can't accept that others are better than them should stop writing. These people just talk and talk and I'm sure they don't donate a dime to UNLV. They want everything free and easy. IN A WAY IS GOOD BECAUSE UNLV DONT WANT THEM NEAR CAMPUS AND I HOPE THEY NEVER USE THE FUTURE FACILITIES.
FUTURE JOBS, BETTER CAMPUS, PLACE FOR TEENS & THE WHOLE COMMUNITY, MOTIVATION FOR TEENS, PROFITS FOR THE UNIVERSITY, PRIDE OF HAVING TOP SPORTS AND BE WINNERS, TOURISTS, WORLD CLASS EVENTS (maybe a tennis tournament like Indian wells or Miami) (the Davis cup) (soccer)(NBA)(HOCKEY)(BOXING)(CONCERTS).
@Turrialba....Most of your concerns are pretty valid, no total costs estimate, where exactly the 150 acres are coming from, how to address the impact on the infrastructure, etc. Interesting what you come up with when you get that chip off your sholder about sports. However, you are wrong about an enterprise district. To declare that is paying for the project with all of our tax dollars is short-sighted and simplistic. These districts acknowledge that the project will have benificial affects on the city, but that we all can't carry that burdern. They instead allow the businesses (which don't exist now) that are created by this project pay their taxes directly towards it. Therefore, if you never set foot in it, it won't cost you a dime. To that end, if the current 10% event tax currently collected by the T&M is no longer turned over to the state, then I would have to agree with one of your earlier proposals that the Athletic Department no longer be subsidized by the state. That would seem fair, if after all the facts are presented this project seems even feasible.
@allaroundtown
If Swenson gets block off for this proposed arena, there is another access road to the Strip corridor for those arriving at McCarran. Right next to the Blue Green Resort is a 4 lane roadway connecting Tropicana to Harmon Ave via Lamar Ct. Lamar Ct is parallel to Koval Ln. Not many people know about this so the taxi drivers really does not have to take the tunnel to get to the resort corridor.
One last point--the proposal that was put forward is the whole deal. That is as big as it gets. Now follow the money.
As this moves forward watch for the paring down of the project. These estimates for housing and retail space require money to build and cash flow to maintain. It remains to be seen what parts will ultimately be built (the developer uses the term years before anything gets built).
The centerpiece of this whole deal is the stadium. Is this where the money is? Will this project yield a stadium and nothing else. Be prepared for big league prices at this place.
Keep in mind that the developers are in it for the money. The most profitable parts of the deal will go forward, the lesser parts later if at all.
These guys are in it for the money and if they are not, then we should really be worried.
Nevermind that it is right in the path of the proposed Airport/Strip monorail.
On second thought, let's do mind, how well has that public/private "no way it can lose" monorail system worked for ya? Same thing only a bigger scale.
From what I learned at UNLV, this appears to be a long-term bad deal for the taxpayers who will end up paying for it.
This should throw you a red flag. "Cavileer said he didn't know the cost of the proposed project, saying it's "far too early" for a price tag."
Really? So the developers spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions, on a proposal that they haven't even penciled out, yet? Next thing you know they will be selling lakefront property in NW Las Vegas.
Actually, build whatever you want. It's pretty obvious that Nevada is not interested in investing in education. With three kids to put through school we will have to look elsewhere. Our family will be moving somewhere that spends tax dollars to improve the residents quality of life, not what the tourists would like.
In light of the recent education cuts, it seems ludicrous that gaming companies pay less in taxes than residents have to pay in sales tax.
"Therefore, if you never set foot in it, it won't cost you a dime."
This is only true if all the activity is new and no money is just being shuffled from one business outside the district to another inside the district.
If a tax that is paid within the district would have been paid outside the district, then the state, county, etc lose. Those monies are either forgone or will have to be made up by another source. Whether the proceeds from the deal will be sufficient to cover these costs remains to be seen.
When you take the UNLV flag off the product, it doesn't look much different than anything else we have seen heretofore --arena, special tax district and the like. This is just another plan to build an arena and everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
These arenas don't work without public subsidies (see Oscar)
Turrilba, Since the last report said the land used consisted of the current parking lot for the T&M, a parking lot across the street, the airport land the has closed driving range and the land which, at present holds two shuttered care rental companies. So, all the business inside will be new. This whole project is about cresting new opportunities.
@bgh:
Let's say they build a coffeeshop on the parking lot. Each morning I stop for coffee at that shop, I am adding business to the area.
However, if I currently stop at 7-Eleven on Paradise for coffee in the morning and switch to the coffeeshop built on the parking lot, 7-Eleven loses the business and the public the tax revenue.
It is still one cup of coffee. The trick is to make it two cups of coffee at both the new location and 7-Eleven.
I see the interest in the stadium and arena (there are a couple other competing proposals kicking around town right now).
What I don't see is other than the arena, what interest to these developers have in building and operating student housing, movies theaters, and bookshops on behalf of UNLV?
The euphoria of all of this will wear off and the hard bargaining will begin. Other than the cost of the stadium ($500 million), we have seen nothing but some glossy images and some developer mumbo jumbo. With sufficient subsidies the stadium can work economically for the developer, but we have not seen how it will work for UNLV or the taxpayers.
There is no price tag on the project that was unveiled but we have been assured that only tax revenues from the special district will be used. There is no way in the absence of a cost estimate for the project that this statement can be defended. It is bs. The reality is that no one knows what the project will look like.
@Turrialba...Yep that's right. But now consider the unemployed guy who gets a job at the new stadium. Not only is he not taking government funds, but most likely the majority of his paycheck is spent outside the district. Your cup of coffee now has helped the whole state. But, your right about not enough to go on. We waited all weekend for some drawings. Last week's information offered more detail.
There is the consideration of the guy who gets the job at the stadium. It is important that the new job doesn't result in someone losing their job. Suppose the clerk at 7-Eleven loses his/her job as a result of buying coffee at the parking lot?
City Center is an example of this effect. There are new jobs there, but some people believe that the net effect has been small. Most of the business has been taken from other properties.
I have serious doubts about the what will be built in the end--remember the only way the developer could make this thing fly polically, was to make some vague reference to the tax revenues and come in with a big plan that appealled to a number of constituencies. Anything less would have been in big trouble politically. These guys are competing with the other proposed arenas to get something done.
Good work, Turrialba. Let me augment your arguments.
Not only might this proposed project cannibalize other local businesses, the massive amount of capital it devours, is capital that would have found better uses, elsewhere. Back in 1989, Steve Wynn rolled the dice and built the Mirage. He was creating something new and exciting, and filling a previously under-served niche. But twenty years later, when he built the Encore, the market had already been saturated with "me-too" products. And that is why Wynn Resorts, Sands Corp, MGM-Mirage, Station Casinos, The Hard Rock Casino are all bleeding red ink with all these redundant Vegas properties in their portfolios.
The commercial shops in this project smack of the same over-capacity problem. Las Vegas is NOT lacking in Old Navy, Banana Republic, Starbucks, etc. etc. retail outlets.
Furthermore, the kind of unique, full-of-character, independently owned little shops and restaurants that other lively off-campus communities DO have, already exists, writ small, east of the campus on Maryland Parkway. Small record shops, second-hand closed stores, beef bowl luncheon counters, etc. But the rents that must be charged at the kind of development Majestic is proposing, will preclude any off-the-wall, unique, student-oriented, organic businesses.
Anyway, if there were a market for more of these, we would have seen more of these type of establishments around campus, already, where rents are cheaper and many place is vacant.
But Majestic doesn't care. They'll pull their money out long before the other shoe drops. That's how they did it with investor's money at the Fountainebleu, at Terrible's, at Aspen (Kenny Guinn's son's house of cards), and on and on.
Like Turrialba says, "follow the money." This is a grab for the money, folks. Plain and simple. Your money and my money. If you believe that "area tax" is all there ever will be, you've got another thing coming. That's not how these things work.
This looks like a scam to suck University money into private hands. All done with Taxpayer money and concessions. Typical Las Vegas business model. Any wonder we lead the nation in so many bad areas?
Sounds like Las Vegans need more information about tax increment funding. Instead of being retained by the state, the sales/property tax generated by businesses in the new project will be used to reimburse the developer for a period of at least 20 years. This let-them-eat-cake premise falsely assumes that the tax revenue generated by the project will be "new money," therefore the public and the general fund will never miss money it never had.
Reno has a similar situation. It built a baseball stadium and restaurants in just such a specially designated tax district. The developer asked for a minimum guarantee of a million dollars a year to help secure financing. Unfortunately, it hasn't generated adequate sales or property tax and the public debt is piling up. Not only does the subsidized project pull traffic away from competing businesses, but the city is being forced to play a shell game, shifting debt and obligations to the general fund to make up the shortfall in tax increment.
It's too soon to talk about money is because it's taxpayer money. Diverting desperately needed revenue from the general fund to reimburse a private developer is the kind of public policy that the public hears little about.
Truthiness,
THANK YOU!
(And like your handle. Is that Steven Colbert?)
When you look at this project as it was presented, there was something for everyone:
Arena
student/faculty housing
Stores, shops, retail
cultural
All for free (or with only a tax enterprise zone (no estimate of value) and no other public monies); the leasing of some property; and no estimate for the cost of the project.
The amount of money available drives what the project will be. The developers are happy to develop so long as they make their money--fair and reasonable.
Let's suppose there is only enough funding to do three out of four of the items; how about two of four; how about one of four. Which one or ones do you choose?
This is probably what is next for everyone--hard choices. The developers have their priorities, but what are UNLV's priorities in this? UNLV might get more if it gives more on the lease arrangements or the state helps with the roads. No one has ponied up anything except UNLV. No different than going to the car dealer.