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Erik Kabik/www.erikkabikphoto.com
Steve Horner, 63, lodged sex discrimination complaints because Las Vegas pool parties, like the one shown here at the Hard Rock, allow women in for free or for less than men. But the state Legislature passed an amendment this past summer specifically allowing for such promotions.
Friday, Aug. 19, 2011 | 2 a.m.
Sun coverage
Steve Horner, a former talk show host turned life coach and writer of self-help books, has gained recognition filing successful sex discrimination complaints against bars and other businesses nationwide. His contention: Ladies’ nights, or other promotions that reserve freebies and discounts for women, are discriminatory and, therefore, unconstitutional.
After moving from Minnesota to St. George, Utah, more than a year ago, Horner set his sights on nearby Las Vegas, with its giant party scene fueled in part by the common practice of waiving women’s entry fees to clubs, lounges and pool parties.
His efforts to file complaints with the Nevada Equal Rights Commission began before the Legislature passed an amendment this summer specifically allowing for such promotions. After the law takes effect Oct. 1, Horner said he wants to use the evidence in his complaints as fodder in his one-man mission to reverse the amended state law allowing for ladies’ night promotions and other gender-based discounts.
Some states have outlawed ladies’ night promotions as discriminatory, but the practice has few critics among either liberals or conservatives. Horner and other men who have challenged the policies get little sympathy from the public, which has called them everything from “woman-haters” to “party poopers” and “buffoons” in print and online.
Horner’s efforts have so far gotten the cold shoulder in Nevada, a state with business-friendly laws and a libertarian attitude toward sexual stereotypes. Even the ACLU won’t support Horner’s cause, saying the practice of charging male customers to get into bars and clubs doesn’t rise to the level of a constitutional injustice.
Horner says his first complaint, against the Blue Martini bar and restaurant in Las Vegas, was rejected by the Nevada Equal Rights Commission last year because he never actually visited the bar in person.
That’s why Horner made sure to visit some bigger adversaries on his list: casino pool parties.
The 63-year-old showed up with a tape recorder and microphone to record information that’s common knowledge around town: While he had to pay $15 to $50 to get into pool parties, women got in free or at reduced rates.
Those efforts resulted in six complaints filed last month and this month against Hard Rock, Tropicana, MGM Grand, M Resort, Rio and Mirage — each seeking a minimum of $2,000 in damages plus attorney fees.
Horner said casino employees laughed when he asked whether he could get into the events free or at the reduced “women’s rate.” They seemed unconcerned, he said, when told they were being taped.
Until recently, casinos had reason to worry about such complaints. In 2008, the Nevada Equal Rights Commission determined that a promotion offering women free membership to Las Vegas Athletic Clubs while men paid membership dues was discriminatory. The commission — which has not ruled on the merits of any similar cases before or since — acknowledged that different pricing for men isn’t unusual, but it couldn’t allow the gym’s policy after it was presented as evidence.
Horner said he learned of the law change when a state attorney reviewing the complaints informed him they would soon be moot.
The commission will continue to accept and consider “sex-based pricing” complaints until Oct. 1, Nevada Equal Rights Commission Administrator Shelley Chinchilla said. After that date, the commission will dismiss them outright for lack of jurisdiction, she said. Chinchilla wouldn’t comment on Horner, as complaints are confidential by law unless they go to a hearing.
Horner has since written a letter to Gov. Brian Sandoval and talked with legislators about reversing the amendment, to no avail.
Allen Lichtenstein, general counsel of ACLU of Nevada, said he thinks Horner’s complaints are dead in the water even now, before the amendment takes effect.
Courts are unlikely to view discounted or free rates or services reserved for women as an injustice compared with other forms of discrimination, he said.
Any efforts to remove the state amendment would be met with more than the bemused reactions of casino workers. The powerful Nevada Resort Association lobbied for the business exemption based on the financial benefits pool parties generate for casino giants and thus, the state as a whole.
Horner said he welcomes a public battle.
“How can you say you’re an egalitarian state one moment, and then you’re not when there’s money to be made?” he said.
He is absolutely right, it IS discrimination. Suppose a golf course charged women more than men to play. They would never get away with it. Same thing.
he is right
imagine if it was free night for white people and black people had to pay there would be trouble
i wont go to bars or clubs that charge for either people from out of town or give free stuff etc to women, why should they supplement their business by charging men or out of towners ? it is illegal
I personally think Mr. Horner is doing the same thing as Righthaven is doing.
He has no interest in going to any of the pool parties or other parties but he just wants to use them as someone to sue. He is going to use up court time to try to collect money from party promoters.
He does not live here and I am going to assume at his age that most of the parties he is currently suing would not be his normal type of party to attend.
He should take note that if Allen Lichtenstein would not take his cause on he pretty much does not have a leg to stand on here.
Talk about discrimination; notice all the shirtless guys in the photo? Why is it that the girls cannot be shirtless? Why are guys nipples allowed but not womens? Health hazzard? Or just gender-based discrimination?
From the article: "The 63-year-old showed up with a tape recorder and microphone to record information that's common knowledge around town: While he had to pay $15 to $50 to get into pool parties, women got in free or at reduced rates."
What's this guy bitching about? He's 63. How much money has he saved using senior discounts? Ladies Night ain't nuthin' compared to the amount of senior discounts.
This article shouldn't be tagged for Discrimination. It should be tagged for Sheisterism.
kasidie a girl sued over the shirtless guys in new york and won, women can legally go topless there now in public, most of canada you can go nude or topless, most of europe you can be nude in public same in russia, hiding from people or making nudity illegal simply makes people look at nude people as freaks
back to the article it is illegal to discriminate for gender, race, religion etc, if a guy went to open a bank account and found all females got an account for free and the guy had to pay $10 per month there would be national outrage, the same goes for clubs, parties, venues, bars etc blatant discrimination based on gender. This is 2011 not 1830
Who would want to swim in one of those huge urine filled pools regardless of sex? I'll stay home and swim in my own pool and mix my own drinks.
I support MR. Horner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group of guys ALWAYS have to pay for a table at the clubs just to get in. It is very unfair.
"What's this guy bitching about? He's 63. How much money has he saved using senior discounts? Ladies Night ain't nuthin' compared to the amount of senior discounts."
One huge difference: If we live long enough, we ALL will be eligible for the senior discount. A man will never be eligible for the ladies' discount.
No it isn't the "same thing".
If you have trouble determining the difference between a intelligent marketing tactic; which is providing an incentive for females to enter an establishment; compared to barring people of specific race or charging more at golf courses, you need your head examined.
Don't play dumb when it suits you.
You know, you guys complaining about this have an argument, in the abstract, at least. But this is precisely the point where I always say "forget about the political correctness dogma -- wake up really look at this."
These ladies-night policies are there ON BEHALF OF MEN. They are there to get women into these bars, clubs, pool parties, etc. so that the men can actually have females to talk to.
Look at the above photo -- it's one big, miserable sausage party. Ask any of the men there if they'd like more ladies to mingle with, even if the ladies have to be enticed with free entry. You'd get drowned out by the "HELL YEAHS!"
Woman wanted equal rights... You are either equal or not, pick one.
However, I find clubs, those pool parties, and other events like them to be disgusting.
I don't have any problems with woman going shirtless...
Actually, it's the women who should be suing. They are being used as bait to lure men to the pool parties and are not being paid for their services, which include exposing most of their body parts, wriggling and dancing, fishing for drinks/food/etc. Not very different from other women who work at gentleman's clubs or strip joints. Women who are acting as "party girls" are unpaid labor for these so-called "parties".
this guy needs a hobby, on second thought, maybe this is his hobby..in that case he needs a different hobby... although he is right, this is discrimination, however the world is full of similar situations. discounts are given for many different reasons...
if he had a wife or girlfriend she would get in free or cheaper and i bet he would not be complaining then,,,what an idiot!
ps, the bait comment is funny!
@iwonder totally nails it. This is as much or more about exploitation than it is discrimination. At the center of the storm per usual are large Corporations chasing low-hanging fruit without regard for anything but their bottomline.
I wonder if he ever bought a senior coffe from McDonalds or such? A private business should have a right to charge whatever they want. It's their business and the free market will decide who wants to go there, and who doesn't. Simple enough.
a side note...being in this industry, there is even discrimination within the sub group of women...less desirble women do not always get in for free or for less or at all..you will see plenty of them standing in line outside the venues as others are plucked out of line and ushered in..maybe they could sue for being to old, overweight, homley, bad dressers, or whatever the reason may be...its all about marketing.
in some markets a select group of women are actually paid to go to clubs..to get the party started...i dont mean free drinks or admission (thats a given) they actually get cash or in some cases are on the payroll...
if little jack horner knew that he would have a stroke!
Destroy a tradition with a law. What a waste of time.
Once you break ground, the options are limitless. What if a business charged more for Latinos than Whites? Where do you draw the line?
"He is absolutely right, it IS discrimination."
rjgs -- of course it is, but who cares? Then again, who goes to golf courses to see hot chicks in bikinis?
"I personally think Mr. Horner is doing the same thing as Righthaven is doing."
vegaslee --except 1) Righthaven isn't from Utah, 2) Righthaven isn't "a former talk show host turned life coach and writer of self-help books" (which translates to attention whore), and 3) Righthaven isn't from Utah. All Horner has to do is stay home and mind his own business, but his type won't.
"Why is it that the girls cannot be shirtless? Why are guys nipples allowed but not womens?"
Kasidie -- good questions, and another example of how this land of the free and home of the brave can't deal with nature's finest. Cities like Toronto got rid of that ridiculous taboo years ago and even had a topless ladies' news show. Somehow the city still thrives.
"Destroy a tradition with a law. What a waste of time."
SunJon -- excellent post!
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm --- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." -- T.S. Eliot
"rjgs -- of course it is [discrimination], but who cares? Then again, who goes to golf courses to see hot chicks in bikinis?"
Ha,ha but it's not just "hot chicks in bikinis" that get the benefit. A 60 year old, 300 lb woman with a mustache gets the same break as a 21 year old hard body.
DTJ, we finally agree!!
What is really news here, is that anybody is stupid enough to give credence to anything a "life coach" says...... especially one from St. George.
I have an idea that is just as idiotic.
Maybe I can hire Righthaven to file suit against this knucklehead for infringing on my username.
He says he is a "life Coach" and I am "getalife"....I think this suit is a winner; unlike the other ones filed by Righhaven.
Mr. Horner should seriously consider another cause celebre. There are certainly more meaningful issues than this. Discrimination a normal human condition, perfectly acceptable, and is neither illegal nor immoral. Please go away.
In Vinesbrook, NY there's an ordinance that fully allows restaurants to give Caucasians a 50% discount without giving the discount to people of other skin tones. And for one reason or another, hardly anybody, if anyone at all, complains. Naturally, the restaurants who offer this promotion are filled with mostly white customers. However, there are a few dark-skinned regulars. They don't mind essentially paying double the price because they at least get to be around the white folks. On a side note, last August a white woman who had gotten really tan was mistakenly refused the discount. A week later, the restaurant eventually realized its mistake and gladly refunded her the difference.
Many people don't mind living in the town. In fact, it boasts a growing population of over 10,000. But I'm certainly glad I don't live in Vinesbrook. To charge one human one price, and another human another price solely based on the fact of how they were born seems...well... backward.
Getalife,
Though we'll still disagree on a number of things, I've been nodding my head at some of your posts as well, recently. We're sort of like the Ravens-Steelers rivalry: heated clashes, lots of blood spilt. But a begrudging mutual respect developing.
(By the way, I'm the Steelers!)
This guy must be gay
Steve must not be verry skilled so this is how he is trying to make money.
If Minnesota caved in to his demands shame on them, Denver stood up to this bully.
Nevada be strong.
I find it very intresting that the Nevada ACLU is not intrested, what do they know?