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StumbleLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Burning the Quran is not a free speech right
Thursday, Sept. 9, 2010 | 2:02 a.m.
I find the proposed “Burn a Quran Day” to be morally repugnant, even though I am not religious. That said, I have to ask whether it is an exercise of free speech or in fact something that infringes on society’s (and hence my) right to a peaceful existence?
The act of publicly burning the Quran is an open invitation for violent retaliation by some groups.
Does Pastor Terry Jones (the organizer of the burning) have the right to issue such an invitation on my behalf? If not, then I must conclude that such an act is not constitutionally protected “free speech.” If it is known that certain actions will be the direct cause of harm to others, even if done by a third party, then those actions are intolerable.
Any reasonable person can recognize that the public burning of the Quran will ignite strong emotions in Muslims. It is possibly the most insulting act that one can perform and will result in some acts of violent retaliation.
This kind of deliberate provocation with the foreknowledge of and reckless disregard for the harm that will follow must not be tolerated by any rational person or by a government that promotes the general welfare of its citizenry.
Some government agency should step in and prevent Pastor Jones from going forward with this plan. Any First Amendment issues can be argued in court, but this is not protected free speech. The government must perform its legitimate function of protecting the rights of all citizens.
Discussion: 14 comments so far…
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I find the burning of the American Flag to be repugnant too. But courts ruled time and again, it's protected Freedom of Speech.
If you want some government agency to step in to prevent Pastor Jones from burning the Koran, just because we find it to be a provocation, then should we ask some government agency to step in to prevent a mosque from being built at Ground Zero because some of us find that deliberately provocative?
Coming events on the Teabagger Taking Back America calendar
_____
Sept 11
Burn a Quran Day
Nov 3
Angle's Second Amendment Remedy Blood Drive
Libs are showing that they are hypocrites again!
They really never stand behind their words.
Just a few weeks ago, they were saying that people who upset about the mosque in NYC were infringing on Mulisms right to freedom.
Today many people, left-middle-right are upset about the burning of Koran.
But libs are being hypocrites. In their world, you can't be against muslisms offending the families of 9/11 but you can be against other regligious groups. It is all or nothing. Stop being a hypocrite.
You should say that the burning of the Koran is wrong.
You should say that building of the 9/11 mosque is wrong.
Both of those are free speech rights by all Americans.
Stop being a hypocrite.
"Does Pastor Terry Jones (the organizer of the burning) have the right to issue such an invitation on my behalf? If not, then I must conclude that such an act is not constitutionally protected "free speech."
___________
So, does everyone have to clear things with Jim Bacon before they attempt to exercise their "rights"? As for " deliberate provocation" will Jim now join the rest of us in speaking out against the Ground Zero Mosque?
Is this Imam a citizen of the United States? If he isn't where is he provided the rights of a United States citizen?
How would you respond if a Muslim burned copies of the Holy Bible? Freedom of speech, or a hate crime? We are walking on a very narrow path and let's hope that cooler heads prevail.
Pastor Jones has the constitutional right to burn a copy of the Koran or even the Bible that he claims to follow and live by, but why would he wish to do either?
Is the Pastor saying that the religious beliefs listed in the Koran aren't really religious beliefs, and any one who does not strictly follow the teachings of the Bible deserves no respect or consideration?
Maybe the pastor thinks that it's time to organize another religious crusade, and head for the Holy Land?
After all, the earlier crusades were so very successful and solved so many of the problems that existed in the world at that time....
History tells us that a society who burns books, sooner or later, burns people!
History also points out that it's next to impossible to stamp out stupidity by doing stupid things....
Am I reaching a little bit too far when I assume that Pastor Jones is a registered Republican?
In 2009 the US Military in Afganistan confiscated and burned BIBLES..
The Bibles the US Military burned were NOT US Government property...
Anyone want to comment on the Constitutionality of that..
The letter writer (Jim Bacon) misses the point; in his last paragraph he calls for the US Govt to prevent Pastor Jones from exercising his Free Speech rights, even though the POTUS and all in government vow to protect and defend the Constitution. This is exactly what Muslim radicals want! Here is a quote from another article...
"America must contain this pastor if it wants to avoid a confrontation with the Muslim world," Mohsen Pak Aien, the head of Organization for Islamic Culture and Communication, told Iran's Tabnak news website.
Fars News, a news agency affiliated with Iran's Revolutionary Guards, carried a statement by a senior Iranian cleric warning President Barack Obama that he would have to bear responsibility for the actions of Mr. Jones if the Quran is burned on Saturday.
"The dangers of this despicable action are clear to all. It will ignite massive fires of anger and hatred toward America. The U.S. government and president will be held accountable if this happens in their country," said Grand Ayatollah Lotfollah Sadeghi Golpaygani, according to Fars News."
...I don't agree with Pastor Jones, but I defend his right to free speech. Ironicly, it's these Muslim countries where people don't have the right to free speech and/or religion. Mr. Bacon falls into their trap; this is just another way of Muslims saying that what they really want is for the USA to adopt "sharia law". The Ground Zero mosque promoter, Imam Rauf, said as much last night on Larry King Live, when he implied that if they were forced to move their planned Ground Zero mosque, then radical Muslims would retaliate against the USA.
xtra said...
"In 2009 the US Military in Afganistan confiscated and burned BIBLES.."
I would love to see a link saying that very thing. Not because I'm in favor of burning Bibles (which I'm not...) but to be honest with you, I don't believe what you're saying....
The law does not allow you to say "FIRE" in a crowded theater so my should a self proclaimed pastor be allowed to start a holy war?
Conservatives are being hypocrites again. Time and again they have told us that they are not opposed to Islam per se in opposing the "Ground Zero Mosque," rather they are acting out of concern for the sensibilities of those who lost family members on 9-11 (even the Moslem families). Now they tell us sensibilities be dam*ed, this pastor has the right to burn a Qoran.
This liberal has no such issues. They all should go ahead and do as they please with their own property. My advice to offended Moslems (not to mention Jews, Christians, and other religious people offended by this perversion of Jesus' teachings) is let this idiot have his day. Remember what your mothers used to tell you: reacting only encourages him.
El Lobo
IT is all over the Internet. It was in the news last year but perhaps Olbermann didn't mention it..
Google IT..
Free Republic, 25 May 2005, Saudi Arabia Desecrates Hundreds of Bibles Annually
Washington DC - The Saudi government burns and desecrates hundreds of bibles its security forces confiscate after raids on Christian expatriates worshiping privately or at border crossings.
As a matter of official policy, the government either incinerates or dumps bibles, crosses and other Christian paraphernalia.
Hundreds of Christian worshipers are arrested every year by Saudi police in raids on their private gatherings. Bibles, crosses and printed materials are confiscated and later burnt or dumped into trash. Bibles and other Christian paraphernalia found with travelers into the country are confiscated and destroyed.
Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Koran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia, and is confiscated and destroyed by government officials.
Recently, there has been a crackdown on symbols of Christianity in Saudi Arabia. On April 21st Saudi authorities raided a make-shift church in Riyadh and arrested 40 Christians. Many Christian religious symbols, such as crucifixes and bibles were later destroyed by Saudi security forces.
All of these books a full of silliness, hatred, contradictions and an incredible lack of understanding. They were written by people with less understanding of the world than a nine year old of today.
However, we should burn none of them, even though we have the right to.
xtra....
What's your point? Because there's "been a crackdown on symbols of Christianity in Saudi Arabia," then we should endorse the burning of the Koran by Americans in this country?
Do I have that right? The old "eye for an eye" thing...No "turn the other cheek" for you...right?
You claim to be very religious, right? What would Jesus say? Would he endorse and encourage the burning of the Koran?
What would have been his attitude about the war in Iraq and our invasion of that sovereign country?
Flags and Books
Any flag or book that you purchased or received as a gift is your property and you can do what you want with it..including burn it.
Any flag or book that was purchased by someone else, including groups such as taxpayers or religious congregations, you may not do anything to or with without permission..
That means you can burn your own flag but touch the one over the Post Office and you will go to jail..
2009
The US Military Confiscated privately owned bibles and burned them..
The issue with burning flags and books is whose book is it?
xtra,
Something you are forgetting to mention is that those bibles where printed in Pashto and Dari languages. They where not permitted to be imported or passed out in Afghanistan. A church in the U.S. sent them to a solider on a U.S. Military base. Even the chaplin of that base advised the solider that passing them out would endanger the lives of the others on that base and that solider agreed they needed to be removed.
Don't cherry pick just parts of the facts to try to make your story look better. Expose the whole story.
Jesus was hung on a cross for his efforts. Or so they say.
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010...
Too much religion going on in this world anyway. The holiest of holies is the almighty dollar. No one can top that.
El_Lobo
Are you saying the Constitution protects korans but not Bibles?
Are you saying that Jesus would object to my burning a book? Would Jesus object to my burning a stick of wood or a robe or a house if it were my book, stick or house. Would Jesus condone theft? Would you take my book so I couldn't burn it?
Pashto? Dari? God sure had a good sense of humor 'eh?
Am I reaching a little bit too far when I assume that Pastor Jones is a registered Republican?
=================================================
Yes you are.
Maybe Terry Jones is related to Jim Jones.
Terry Jones was born in the same town as Rush Limbaugh.
xtra said...
"Are you saying the Constitution protects korans but not Bibles?"
Where in the world did you get a strange idea like that?
We can't control what happens in another country such as Saudi Arabia when it comes to them burning Bibles and trashing Christian symbols.
But we sure can do something about what we do, and the attitude that we have about the various religious beliefs that exist in this country.....
We should treat them all equally....
Freedom of religion does not mean freedom of religion for Christians and Jews only!
"Just a few weeks ago, they were saying that people who upset about the mosque in NYC were infringing on Mulisms [SIC] right to freedom. Today many people, left-middle-right are upset about the burning of Koran. But libs are being hypocrites. In their world, you can't be against muslisms [SIC] offending the families of 9/11 but you can be against other regligious [SIC] groups."
There goes Sarge with his dumbed-down straw man again.
For the record, some on the far-right were saying that a community center was going to be a tool for recruiting terrorists, that it has ties to terrorist organizations, etc. They had no proof of this, just their extreme hatred of Muslims and a religion they obviously don't understand. The argument was based in bigotry and hatred, not concern for a handful of families that claim they would be offended.
The response from the left was that Islam has billions of peaceful followers, and that the Cordoba Initiative could be a step in the right direction in promoting religious tolerance, and that bigotry and hatred are wrong.
The SAME argument about religious tolerance, and against bigotry and hatred applies here, Sarge. This is about a bigot who wants to provoke Muslims around the world. He doesn't seek peace, tolerance or a shared respect.
In both arguments, people on the right have taken the side of hatred, bigotry and intolerance.
"Pastor Jones' threats to burn the Koran will put American servicemen/women in danger - for their sake please don't do it!"
What extreme liberal said this?
John McCain.
edgewise...
Excellent post! I agree 100%.
As you well know, too often with the extreme right-wing religious nuts, the road only runs one way...
El_Lobo
You said "We should treat them all equally."
It is a Constitutionally protected right to burn Bibles in this country..therefore..it is Constitutionally protected right to burn Korans.
Hypocrite!
If I incinerated my Bible and a neighbor attacked me..Who would you arrest?
Me for inciting him?
Him for attacking me?
xtra....
You're attempting to put words in my mouth that I did not say. Matter of fact, here's what I said earlier on this very thread:
"Pastor Jones has the constitutional right to burn a copy of the Koran or even the Bible that he claims to follow and live by, but why would he wish to do either?"
Enough said?
xtra...
Relax! You're getting your BP up unnecessarily.
You're attempting to put words in my mouth and you're attempting to argue points that were not part of the original argument...
I can live with the second part, but not the first...Don't put words in my mouth!
El_Lobo
1) If a woman wears a skimpy outfit..and is attacked and raped...is it her fault for inciting lust (even if she knows full well that outfit is going to attract male attention)
2) If a person wears a fancy ring and is robbed, is it that persons fault for inciting greed and envy (even though the person is doing it in a poor neighborhood)
3) If a person burns a book, and is attacked ..is it that person's fault for inciting violence (even if the person knows his neighbor is a member of a radical violent religion who kill people for burning that book?)
I thought we had settled the "she asked for it" argument in violent attacks against people who are expressing themselves in a manner other people find..inciteful
El_Lobo
If I go out in my yard on 9/11 and burn any book..That is a peaceful act and my right
Are you saying I should not do that because some wacked out religious nut is going to attack me
Next we will be veiling our women so some whacked out violent religious nut is not incited to throw acid at them..
Where is this going?
xtra...
It appears that you and others are attempting to make this whole thing a "Holy War." That's unfortunate if that is what you have in mind.
We have approximately 2-3 million Muslins in this country, and I would guess that 99% of those people are law biding, tax paying American citizens who are not intent on doing great harm to this country....
When we act badly, as Pastor Jones is doing, it helps no one and divides this country along religious and cultural lines...
The burning of the Koran by Pastor Jones and his followers serves no useful purpose, and actually puts our soldiers in such places as Iraq and Afghanistan in harms way....more so that what presently exist!
All Pastor Jones is doing is fueling the fires of terrorism.....
This is exactly the same issue as the building of the Mosque.
Do they have the right, yes. Should they, no.
It is not that burning a Quran is not free speech but the organized, public nature of the event itself, "International Burn-a-Quran Day", that is intentionally being done to provoke and incite.
So far as I know, SCOTUS has ruled only one time that an action was not protected, back in 1919 in Schenck v. United States. This resulted in the "clear and present danger" doctrine. Since then that has been modified several times to what we have to today that basically allows everything except inciting to riot.
I think that the underlying basis for Jones' planned actions falls into that category.
A BETTER SOLUTION; cut the defense spending 70%.
We spend more than all the rest of the planet together, 40 times more per capita of 2nd place.
WE WASTE OUR RESOURCES AND LIVES OF OUR PATRIOTIC YOUNG GULLIBLE AMERICANS simply because with all our military spending we NEED a boogie man to hunt for EVEN if we have to admit in Afghanistan there are 50 Taliban boogie men, we will send 150,000 troops.
These crazy people are BURNING American flags all over the world today, chanting DEATH TO AMERICA and you want us to cower before their CRAZINESS.
REMEMBER ONE OF OUR GREATES GENERALS
William Tecumseh Sherman quotes
War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over."
Only the congress can declare war according to the constitution of the U.S.
THEY HAVE NOT DONE SO
In war you KILL YOUR ENEMY TILL THEY ARE DEAD OR THEY GIVE UP so you can go on into the future in peace.
This phony religion teaches you can rape, sodomize little girls and beat your wives SO IF THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A RELIGION because they are SINCERE, well so are MAN / BOY LOVE ASSOC. who believe if is natural for 50 year old men to have sex with 10 year old boys,
WHY DO YOU CONDEM ONE AND COWER ON YOUR KNEES BEFORE THE little girl rapists and wife beaters?
I was right...You're determined to make this whole thing a "Holy War."
You love to give the impression that you're a very religious person and believe in the teachings of the Bible....But, we all know, words are cheap!
Sorry, but I don't see that as being you...a hypocrite, I'm not.....
Not sure about you! The jury is still meeting!
Both are old, outdated and overated books followed by people with a need. Both can be burned, but shouldn't out of respect for others.
The provocative and incendiary ploy by the man of the cloth in Florida is quite poignantly UnAmerican.
Purposeful disrespect in the face of another's religion is tantamount to spitting in the face of another person.
What's up with that Reverend? Is this what we call saving face? Is this what we call getting even? Is this what we call ugly? anti-Christian and peevish, petty and offensive and disgusting
Do not send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
xtra...
You're determined to make a mountain out of a mole hill...Not sure how you came up with many of your strange ideas and beliefs...
Extremism, regardless of whether or not it's on the right to the left, among Christians or Muslins, is very dangerous and should be avoided..
DON'T MAKE THIS WHOLE THING AN EXCUSE TO GO TO WAR AGAINST ALL MUSLINS! IT'S NOT A HOLY WAR!
Go read a few books and article on the Crusades and then come back and we will have a great discussion about the current topic!
Stupidity is our worst enemy.....not the teachings of Islam!
EL_Lobo
Burning a book that a person purchased is a Constitutionally protected right and is the peaceful pursuit of happiness..
Is that a strange idea or belief?
El Lobo
Is peaceful pursuit of happiness a Constitutionally protected right?
Can a woman wear a short short skirt a itty bitty bikini if it makes her happy?
Does anyone have a right to attack or rape her because she is "intentionally" inciting ..
Did she ask for it?
*Note..everytime you lose an argument you start whining about my "strange ideas and beliefs"
Stop that..answer the argument..and the crusades are not at issue here, nor is "holy"
I've just gotta shake my head at the twisted logic on display. Reactionary zealot fringe lunatics abroad stupidly burn US flags and shout "Death to America", which then "inspires" the reactionary zealot fringe lunatic leader of the "Dove World Outreach Center" to demand his right to prove he and his followers are just as stupid by burning Korans.
What further free-speech protected acts of idiocy might this inspire? How about something unthinkable, like, disrupting funerals of fallen soldiers as a means to express God's displeasure at not mercilessly persecuting homosexuals? Oops, I forgot -- that's already happened.
I just shudder to think at what sort of direction all of this bile is taking us toward . . . . .
vitriol and bile
mounded in a pile
guaranteed to rile
the soul of evryman
step back a step and wonder
why the rumbling thunder
Free speech is aimed at burning? From a burner.
Sure, he has the right in my country to burn his stuff. And I do not have the right to stop him.
But somebody ought to. He is whacking a bee hive and he knows it. They'll sting a bunch of us and he knows it. It's no different.
Holy man is a'whackin up a storm of killer bees. In the name of Jesus he prays.
Obama....supreme hypocrite.
He can't give us his wisdow on a religious group building a 9/11 mosque that offends the families and friends of 9/11 victions for that would violate freedom of religion.
But he can give us his wisdow on a regilious group burning the Koran.
Hypocrite.............
give us his wisdow on a regilious group
gratitude for understanding, joy in vision, praise for thy temples in everyman's heart
Yes, it is very hypocritical to denounce a violent act of religion intolerance but to support the Constitutional rights of someone who wants to build a community center.
What is "wisdow [sic]?"
Sarge continues the march toward the dumbing-down of America.
edgewise and airweave
Burning a book is a peaceful act in pursuit of happiness..
Where is the violence or the religious intolerance in that?
The book does not belong to anyone except the person who paid for it..and he can dispose of it as he pleases
I don't expect an avowed bigot to be able to recognize religion intolerange, xtra, so consider yourself off the hook.
Further, YOU were the one angry that the Military burned Bibles. I think that makes you a hypocrite.
Again, it is not that Jones can not burn a book, but the intent and concept behind "International Burn a Quran Day" that is the issue.
It is being done as a deliberate provocation with intent to incite. THAT is not protected free speech.
One can see from the posts of the thoroughly indoctrinated boot licking puppet pawns of the radical extremist so-called republican party that they love to have someone to hate.
The "Things" have shown their hatred for not only Muslims, but invited immigrants, African Americans, Gays, Liberals, Progressives, Traditional Republicans, Independents, Greens, and anybody that their Fascist leadership puts in their sights.
Why do they not have the capacity to form their own opinions?
Why do these Un-American Americans have no "SHAME?"
edgewise
Are you saying the US Military can persuade soldiers to give up the girlie books and pictures?
Books are Books under the law..For any government entitie..including and especially Obama to add "bible, koran, playboy" to that is a violation of the 1st Amendment
The Constitution prohibits the Government..and that means military from confiscating books or "persuading" anyone to give those books up to be burned.
I said, "If you bought it, you burn it." But no one and especially not the US government can burn that book...that you have in your possession and is your personal property
edgewise
You can't understand the difference between a person's right to a book and the government "persuading" a person to give up a book to be burned at the behest of a third party..
I can..
And now the PEACEFULL IMAM is threatining more Violence If the VICTORY MOSQUE is Moved.
And teabaggers wonder why mainstream Americans think they're whacko.
"Are you saying the US Military can persuade soldiers to give up the girlie books and pictures?"
Are you saying that the FBI and CIA should allow their members to fully exercise their 1st amendment rights? Should top secret information be disseminated without regard? Why are the CIA and FBI infringing on 1st amendment rights?
He's pickin a fight with a bunch a wackos.
Why incite hatred and despicable violence in the name of something so sacred as our freedoms?
This is beyond religion or constitution. It lands at the door of sanity. This man of the cloth is nuthin but a man on the rag.
edgewise
Does an FBI agent have a right to publish government secrets?
Those secrets belong to the US government..
Those employees have a right to publish anything they created..
Or are you arguing that the copyright laws are unconstitutional?
Having a book and publishing a book are two separate issues
xtra said...
"Burning a book that a person purchased is a Constitutionally protected right and is the peaceful pursuit of happiness.."
You must not read what I post. I said earlier, and then repeated it:
"Pastor Jones has the constitutional right to burn a copy of the Koran or even the Bible that he claims to follow and live by, but why would he wish to do either?"
Actually, the "pursuit of happiness" thing is not listed in the Constitution. That's part of the Declaration of Independence...
You're attempting to paint with a very broad brush. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Many Muslims that read the Koran and practice the teachings of Islam are very peaceful and law-biding people.....
You are attempting to make this whole thing a war against Muslims. You say that you're not, but you are looking at this whole thing as a type of "Holy War."
Deny it all you want, but it's true....
I suggested that you take some time and read about the Crusades, hoping that if you actually did that, you might come to the conclusion that neither side was 100% justified with what they did during that time period....
We should all learn from the past, but many of us don't!
Stupidity is our worst enemy, and our greatest threat to the future of this country!
All of the American Taliban, excepting the NPRI guy has shown up here to opine about this subject.
As a guy who is a Born Again Christian with a son in the US Army stationed in Afghanistan I thought I would weigh in.
If Muslims are to be thought of as so stupid as to believe this moron of a preacher (seems related to gbigs by the way) from Florida by way of Germany (http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl... it really doesn't matter, now that this idiot has been given all this free publicity for a church of 50 mini morons, copy cats are sure to be all over the place.
I don't give a fig what he does. Someone (the American Media) is pullin all your chains. If "The Muslims" are going to kill people over this a la the Cartoon and Salman Rushdie, get it over with.
I am not afraid of good Muslims, I am not afraid of good Christians, I am not afraid of any good -ism. I am afraid of the American Taliban.
Be afraid, be very afraid :)
gbigs and the American Taliban
blabbing hate and war
enemy and slaughter
divide and conquer
There are two things that Fascists and their boot licking followers hate--Truth and Intelligence.
The puppet wingnut bloggers constantly show that in their posts.
Why are they so "SHAMELESS?"
airweave
I will bet you that there is a Christian church burning in the world today. I will be you that there is an American flag being burned. I will bet there are bibles and Christian symbols being confiscated by governments..
Where is your outrage?
VidiVeritas
Your Post @12:57
You and I agree..
Are you saying the Left Wing bootlickers do hate Truth and Intelligence.
You can see it in their post!
You finally saw the light..:)
Just out on CNN, Jones is canceling burn, he is going to go to NY to talk to the Imam there.
I don't know what rock you've been living under for the past month, but President Obama did speak about Park 51 from the perspective of the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment, citing the importance of upholding American principles and values.
You may not have liked what he said, but to tell a lie for the sake of lying, or to justify your hatred of President Obama, is just sad.
The news just now coming out is going to create a problem.
According to CNN, during a live press conference, Pastor Jones has said he is canceling the event on Saturday and will instead fly to NY and speak with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.
Jones claims that Rauf has agreed to move the location of the mosque.
We need a lot more details if that claim is true.
However, I think this sets a bad precedent. Many will hail Jones for achieving this. But it is in fact an endorsement of what to me seems to be a terrorist act.
Is it his right to burn it? yes.. Is it right? no. I don't care what Middle Eastern countries think of the US, they are insignifigant countries, but the American thing to do is use your head Pastor. This is a dumb move.
I applaud the Imam for talking with Jones. It is not known whether or not the Imam has actually agreed to move the project, but it seems he will talk about it.
At this point I only hope that this does not inspire more people to seek solutions like Jones' by threats of inciting violence. I know that several people here will praise Jones for his actions now. But this seems much too close to blackmail.
I still condemn Jones' intended action and the intent behind it.
Both Reuters and NBC news have received denials from the owner of Cordoba House and the Imam.
I guess gbigs didn't read that far...
Let me let you all in on something:
The problem is not the christian nutball who wants to burn his religious opponents' holy book.
The problem is the millions of muslim fanatics who genuinely believe that murder is a justified response to someone who 'insults' them.
Lots of conflicting stories coming out now from NY an Florida. It's time to wait and see what is really going on.
Being a complete moron is not unconstitutional. If it were, Barack Obama would not be President.
The professed Christians McVeigh and Nichols bombed Oklahoma City on April 19-1995, resulting in the death of 168 men, women, and children.
Using the same illogic thinking by the wingnuts, Christians should not be allowed to build a Church within the vicinity of the bombed Murrah Federal Building.
The only reason that the radical extremist so-called republicans and their boot licking minions are demonizing the Muslims is for votes and votes only.
Who have they not demonized?
The "Despicable Things" have demonized the invited immigrants, African Americans , Gays, Liberals, Progressives, Independendents, and the Traditional Republicans.
The "Despicable Things" have demonized the unemployment extension bill, the aid to Veterans bill, the aid to small business bill, the stimulus bill,the healthcare reform bill, the financial reform bill, and other bills Congress attempted to pass to benefit the American citizenry.
The "Despicable Things" demonized the French because they would not be a part of the illegal invasion of Iraq. They have also demonized many of our own allies by trying to browbeat and insult them, destroying our diplomatic relations with many countries in the world.
the So-called republicans and Fox fraudcasting has demonized Easter, the MD poster boy, Cindy Sheehan-who lost her son in Iraq,and so many other individuals and other ideas that we hold dear.
The "Despicable Things" demonize just about anybody and everything so they can radicalize the haters, the stupid, and the ignorant for their vote and their vote only.
In November the "Despicable Things" will herd their radicalized sheep to the polls where they will vote for the miserable failure so-called republicans and vote against their own interest, the interests of their own families, their neighbors, their community, and their country.
Those potential suicide voters should wake up and realize they have become pawns for the radical extremist so-called republicans.
Form your own opinions and form them as true as you can based in facts, not lies put out by the "Despicable Things."
1. this is not a war this is an occupation.
2. We invaded their country for an act in our country which has never had a federal investigation to prove how it was done or who did it. All stories are conspiracy theories until proven.
3. This pastor has a right to do what he wants as long as he doesn't hurt any one.
4. If this man was truly of the cloth, and practiced his religion faithfully, he would have the desency....
Just in... pastor cancels Koran burning. Now all you little girls can quit arguing.
They are not allowed to think for themselves, only the IMAM's can do that.
We will see:
"3. This pastor has a right to do what he wants as long as he doesn't hurt any one." = fremmasmind
That was the point of the letter.
Jones' planned action was in fact intended to cause harm, either directly or indirectly.
botfx
What harm is there in burning his own book ..Sounds peaceful enough to me..
Oh..I get it...Some whacko will get enraged and kill somebody..
I don't think the Pastor is the problem here...
Obama said he was going to call the Pastor...Maybe Obama should call the Saudi's and tell them to stop confiscating bibles at their border..Or will that enrage some whackos and they will kill somebody?
Pastor Jones was organizing a public display with the knowledge that violence would be a result of his actions. He was making a call for action by naming it the "International Burn a Quran" day.
This, in my opinion, is not only a reckless disregard for the safety of others but is tantamount to inciting a riot and a desire for such to happen. That goes far beyond someone saying they are upset with the government by burning a flag.
boftx, what the heck, the pastor is not going to burn the Quran, end of story.
This harm to us , what, were they going to start a war with us. We attacked their country for doing what? Nothing was ever proven to whom was responsible for the events of 9/11, but we attacked their country anyway.
We attacked 2 countries and they estimated we killed 1 million Iraqi's. For what reason? Whoops no weapons of mass destruction. So what does that make us?
Invaders, occupiers, murderers of innocent men, women and children.
We've been in Afghanistan for going on ten years, from what I've found out we've been trying to build gas and oil pipelines from the Caspian Sea area through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and out to the Arabian sea since the early 90's. The Taliban wanted to charge the oil companies to much for protection to help the construction they we wanted so our government is making our military do it on the taxpayer dollar. Such a deal. I have suggested many times for people to type 'Pipelines through Afghanistan' in their address bar. Try it, you might learn something.
As with Germany, France, Italy, etc., etc, we will keep troops in these countries for-ee-va. The only one winning is the United States Industrial Military complex.
I asked at 6:15am this morning if this Imam is a citizen of the United States. Not one of you genuises had an answer.
Two more questions, if this Imam is not a citizen, is he here on a greencard through investment?
If he is , why did our government issue him one?
I guess he could be used as a scapegoat down the road.
fremmasmind,
I agree, we have done more than enough to upset them already, but why add to it? Just because we had a president who was an idiot does that give citizens the right to be just as stupid?
I have found a couple of references that refer to Imam Rauf as a naturalized citizen, but have not found a definitive source yet.
fremmasmind,
This article from aolnews seems to be a trustworthy source that says that Imam Rauf is a naturalized citizen: http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/articl...
Lmao over this article, look at what the liberals have done to America and you find this repugnant. Try venting out towards liberals and make a change here in America.
Not very many people care if the Quran is burned; these nutcases who practice this religion kill people for joy. We need to do more and let these animals now, don't mess with America.
A list of suggestions that would spark a fire under them:
Build a Jewish Community Center's beside Mecca and every mosque in America.
Build Synagogues facing Mecca and beside every Mosque in America.
Place pictures of Allah on billboards facing Mecca, throughout the world, Allah would actually be an American woman.
The boot licking puppet wingnuts that suppport the Dumb and Dumber so-called republicans will post any lie, even preposterous lies, and repeat them over and over to attempt to brainwash their fellow citizens and to be smarmy.
These "Things" get most, if not all of their smelly misinformation from their smelly XL posterior library.
News flash ... it's back on again. They pastor backed out. He's gonna be burning again.
Do I agree with the burning of the Quran or Bible? No! Do I think that this pastor can if he wants to ? Yes. Will I ever do anything that will piss off a Muslim? Probably. Do I care what they think? NO and never will!!!!!
TonyCrago, So I guess that would make you a traitor, a coward, an idiot, a right wing hypocrate AND an idiot. But to a higher degree. You can't fix stoo-pid, so why join the club?
It's just a book - like Green Eggs & Ham or The Bible. It is stupid, but if you want to, and it's your book, burn it.
Don't tug on Superman's cape
Don't spit into the wind
Don't pull the mask off the ole lone ranger
And don't mess around with religion.
sorry Jim
Burning the Quran is a free speech right. Freedom of expression is what American is supposed to be ALL About. That does not mean that I agree with it.
This thread has suggested that those who incite do no harm.
They suggest that it is acceptable human behavior to taunt and aggravate.
They maintain their innocence in the slaughter of Americans because they have a constitutional right to blather. To incense. To pick fights and then hide behind their paperwork.
In the land of the free. The home of the brave.
Sometimes I am ashamed and awed by the audacity of fear, cowardice and immaturity gone bananas.
Airweare.... What are you talking about?