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StumbleLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Americans have lost compassion for downtrodden
Sunday, Sept. 5, 2010 | 2:03 a.m.
Regarding the first-person article Sunday, “I Am Frightened,” by Rodger Jacobs, who was on the brink of becoming homeless:
What frightens me is not the article itself (though to be sure, it is a nightmare scenario) but the comments on the website at the end of the article.
This is depressing. Some of these comments are sickening.
What happened to America, land of boundless compassion, wisdom, feelings for the plight of one’s fellow man?
I cannot even begin to fathom whatever tortuous path has led us to arrive at these utterly savage comments, where the desperate times on which a man has fallen aren’t even acknowledged as fact, much less treated with any kind of sympathy.
How have we reached the point where it is automatically the victim’s fault? Jacobs has spent his life as a hardworking, productive member of society. I assume he’s paid his taxes regularly, and now he’s on the receiving end of the same system that he spent his adult life paying into.
That’s how it works. You support today’s elderly and infirm so that tomorrow a younger generation will support you. As Baby Boomers, your parents gave you absolutely everything, and asked only that you “pay it forward.”
Instead, the past three decades have been spent attempting to dismantle the social safety net that has allowed Americans to live without fear of poverty.
This is America. We take care of one another. We respect one another’s right to worship in a manner of their choosing.
We believe that gainful employment is to be encouraged, but when honest attempts at seeking such employment fail, we will help you. Because we are America, and we care about one another.
What the hell is happening in this country?
Discussion: 8 comments so far…
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We are acquiring a thin veneer of protective bark. As each governmental mess is revealed the veneer grows thicker.
I agree with the writer. if you avoid and close your eyes to history then we all will suffer the consequences. the real issue we face is that the average person who normally doesn't get involved in political issues had better pay attention while they still have the time to have their say.We are seeing more radical bigoted nut jobs attempting to convince us that nothing is right and everything is wrong.They don't make their points with logic only using inflammatory statements that they repeat and repeat.
History has pointed the way as to what then happened.Voters did not pay attention and one day found that the crazies had overwhelmed decent people.By then it was to late and yes an educated and smart people fell under the yoke of Hitler.
The only recourse is for people to take the time and learn for themselves what's really going on. Watch more then one tv newscast, read more then one newspaper.you can in a very short 10 minutes read 6 newspapers from different spots in the country on line.
What you will find is a pattern of misinformation that will open your eyes as to what is really going on.
Look at the depression. "They Shoot Horses Don't They?"
In hard times schadenfreude takes hold among the right wing stink tank and tea party types.
The guy featured in the article may have made some bad decisions, but so did Rush Limbaugh, Glen Buck, Betty Ford and W Bush.
The 75% of Nevadans who are upside down in their homes might have made different decisions in hindsight as well.
Do the people who worked on the Dam Hoover Bypass Bridge have jobs? So "government can help in job creation" is just another load of crap from the hate talk radio crowd.
Americans have no need to care as the Government Steals their wages and wants to replace family and religion with government. Apparently Comrade MRED loves the concept.
Government was never meant to be the CRUTCH of life as Progressives would have the public believe.
To a socialist/progressive truth equals HATE.
All third world countries have at least one thing in common -- an obscenely rich upper class, a poverty-stricken lower class and not much of anything in between, or middle class.
hombre...I could NOT say it any clearer or more precise...perfect..."We are acquiring a thin veneer of protective bark. As each governmental mess is revealed the veneer grows thicker"...perfect - no politics, no blame of your fellow man, none...perfect words to describe exactly why we are becoming hardened...
Wow Fosimmons, that might be your dumbest letter yet, and you've had a few doozies.
Fossimons - "Proposal: All recipients of Social Security who have the position against it should now stop accepting it, this afternoon. All of 'em and I include the TeaPartpotters and the Libertarians and so called RepubliTolobones"
I'd gladly step out of the program tomorrow if given the opportunity, and use the funds no longer taken from my paycheck to invest on my own. I would however not relinquish my right to the money already deducted from my paycheck prior.
Fossimons - "Also, if you want tax cuts for the rich to continue, then you should send a voluntary check to the US Treasury each month to help our county pay for it"
The wealthiest people in America pay far more in taxes then the poor or the middle class. The issue is government spending, pork, waste and duplication of services or needless services that is rolling our deficit to insane levels. As for sending a check, I already do that in the form on an involuntary check, which they rip out of my paycheck each month so the single mother of five can continue to live in subsidized housing, with food stamps while she watches Jerry Springer.
Fossimons - "Also, stop patronizing Wal-Mart and you'll stop China in it's tracks ... why don't you craxies step up and do these things and back up your big mouths????"
Damn. I give you credit for this one. That is indeed an excellent idea. No sarcasm here. Walmart is complete crap. Perhaps if the Tea Party movement can instead become the Buy American movement, we might be onto something.
Looks like Paris Hilton and family will be putting some of their trickle-down Bush tax cut back into the economy.
Seems the more "Christian" we supposedly become, the less Christian charity we show. It is, after all, the conservatives who are against helping people.
"I, Me, Mine".
FOX.
BECK.
HANNITY.
RUSH.
PALIN.
ET.AL
Each and every day, they tell the masses how GREAT it is to HATE.
It's a massive right-wing, Neo-Con, NutJob indoctrination into the brave new world of SELFISHNESS.
What these talking-heads are paid handsomely to do is inspire HATRED for your fellow man.
It's not only "OKAY", it's your DUTY! Don't YOU want to be a "Great American"???
Look what they WANT from you! The LAST NICKEL from your pants pocket! Are you going to LET THEM TAKE IT?
HELL NO!!!
Well then, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
Hate your fellow man!
Hate your neighbor!
Hate your co-worker who doesn't hate!
Hate your heads off!
The proliferation of "I'm a right-wing Hater" in the United States Of America, driven by the UBER RICH and their Neo-Nut Media Machine, is fast becoming the bane of our existence.
95% of the recruits to the Right-Wing Hater's Club join "the Program" in diametric opposition to their own best interests.
But then, THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA!!!
The letter writer took away a much more negative feeling from the posts at the end of Rodger Jacobs' article than I did.
I saw the vast majority of comments as somewhat sympathetic but at the same time offering constructive criticism.
In my opinion both the Las Vegas Sun and Rodger Jacobs can take immense pride in the article. This and future articles by the Sun about local poverty might reap an award of some sort.
As far as Rodger is concerned, I expect that this article is the crowning achievement of his writing career, and as he looks back on it over the years, he will have nothing but pride in it.
The article is of excellent quality and the response was immense, the most comments I have ever seen posted in the Sun. Assuming Rodger's motive was to bring light to the human face of poverty, he has succeeded totally, even though by putting out his personal situation for all to read, he demonstrated that sometimes small poor personal choices (like resorting to a payday loan, or continuing to smoke) can impact one's financial situation in a bad recession.
This was the most interesting article I have ever read in the Las Vegas Sun.
If Social Security and Medicare were to be phased out would that portion of tax no longer come out of my check. I mean there's a lot of people that believe that but has anyone actually said that it would or would the tax continue by form of re appropriations or will it go into an account that someone on wall street can invest for me and they get there commission off of there advise or will they impose some sort of account maintenance fee for managing the account.
The reason I ask this is that these wall street investors tell people all the time that you should invest for long term while they invest for the moment with your money that's why they call that money in your bank account as being on the sideline. I can't help but think that that agenda is big business oriented for them and not you they cant stand the fact that you control your money and they can't force you into the game.
What do I mean when I say you control your own money you asked? Well lets look at long term investment into your fellow citizen for example the long term return is the fact that you have a safety net we pay for our elders and when we become the elders then we can be assisted as well keeping in mind that social security was not to be a retirement but only a supplement to your retirement now not all people draw off of there Social Security most will pass away before they are able to draw then there are those that will draw for only a short time while in the 90's the average number of checks received before the recipient died was 13 the dreaded unlucky number, Also there are those that live a long time and may draw for 6 or 8 to 10 year or more and that's why it is needed because you have lived so long you have now out lived any savings you may have acquired.
The bottom line is this that investment by way of Social Security is the lest Risky with the best return.
And our founding fathers made our constitution amendable the greatest thing they did Imagine Amendable by our Representatives. And that is why I say you control your money.
casinokid,
If someone manages your invested money, there will be fees imposed on your earnings just like 401(k)'s and mutual funds. With mutual funds, current fees range from about 0.25% to 2%. If the market goes down, you lose money plus the fees.
GET REAL..
The American Entitlement class does not want a Middle Class or they would BE the middle class..
The entitlement class believes there are Rich People who are sitting on piles of food, housing, fuel, vehicles and the Poor Folks can take (tax) the Rich..and everyone will get a mouthful
TO have a middle class..you have to be the middle class..You have to work..you have to stand in the middle between the greedy entitled both above and below..and eke out a standard of honor, dignity and yes..WORK..that works for America..
The entitled and the rich are one and the same..and neither want a middle class
Let me put it this way
When Americans become beggars.. their goal in life is looking for someone to beg from..and that creates the myth of ..Those fat rich cats...is why little ole me is poor..Its them guys fault and if they don't give to me when I ask politely (beg) I will take what I am owed by ..forces..either gangsta gun or guv'mt pow-war"
Just from personal experience, I find this community has both good and bad qualities. When I was in my throes of discontent, no one was there to help me. I accept that. It's indeed a cold town if you don't have any means, cold!
The letter writers are not a consensus of the general population. The comments posted are from a minority of malcontents who have many problems of their own. I feel pity on the "commenters" as well as the guy down on his luck.
My observation is he needs some probiotics to take care of his rash the anti-biotics he takes
are causing an imbalance in his gut flora and his immunity is down. I love Las Vegas, partly because it's compassion is hazy, obscuring the pulse beneath it.
I too am guilty of parting shots, some cheap leveled at some of the suburbs. "a man who has food may have many problems, a man who has no food only has one problem"
I say we start a Paris Hilton defense fund so her obscenely wealthy parents don't have to dip into their Bush trickle-down tax cut to pay the lawyers.
It's the least we commoners can do.
Brilliant comment, LastThroes.
Most Americans are one paycheck away from being homeless..
People hex the homeless..They mumble "it must be that guys fault, drugs or something, or he could get a job." Those ideas protect the person from the chaos..and assures the person that he can avoid a similiar fate..There is a reason for it..and therefore is avoidable..
A person who is homeless should not rely on the kindness of strangers..A person who is homeless should be clean, kind, cheerful and engaged...and never beg..
Poverty is not having anything to give..
Find someone..to help...even if you are homeless..Look for people to help...forget about yourself and look for something to do that is honest work..and trust in divine providence that good times come around again..for good people
Poverty is when you have nothing to give..
LastThroes
Hilton's are trust fund liberals..Democrats
LASTTHROES
I WAS WRONG..Hilton's are Republicans..
Paris acts like a democrat..That confuses people
The letter writer is correct. There are so many who are so willing to condemn instead of just offer a kind word or a helping hand.
But, then look at 3 Square for an example. There are also many who do help and do whatever they can.
In my opinion, the problem is that there are so many mean spirited people who think it's ok to post hateful, nasty comments to a story, and those helpful, hopeful folks are busy doing what they do to make the world a compassionate place and not posting venom at the end of a newspaper article.
So, that sort of skews the numbers of the comments, because the nasty mean spirited people have nothing else in their lives to do, while the compassionate ones are busy doing it.
"DON'T TALK ABOUT IT, BE ABOUT IT" -
Why should Rodger ever have to face up to the curable problems when he has more than enough enablers to hold his hand and tell him all he really needs is for the "Haters" to shell out a few more bucks and the "no solutioners" will have temporarily felt good of themselves one more time.Many of us haters actually took the time to try to expose the falicies of Rodgers thinking and illogical actions.We actually had this crazy thought that Rodger would use knowledge as power,to actually use some practical time weathered solutions that millions of others have learned to use as tools to build a more solid foundation.At least 300 suggestions,carefully thought out,all carefully ignored.What I hate is wasting my time on people that don't have one slight inclination to change themselves for their own betterment.Those who want to hold his hand instead of reaching out to help him pull himself up are just perpetuating his ongoing situation.Rodger now has some tools to decide to act in a manner that utilizes his God given capabilities.For that we are villified.I guess it was all about money to begin with and what we can do for Rodger,not what Rodger can learn to do for himself.Here's another twenty Rodger,that should get you through the moment..Sorry I was thinking a little more long term than that,I hope you do so also.This "Hater" is moving on and spending my time and money more wisely on others that at least have an inclination to face up to reality and recognize that they are the ones that are ultimately responsible in making the correct decisions to navigate the ruff waters of life.Ia'm not going to throw you another cork to plug your boat Rodger,when you could have listened to those who would help bring it into shore for the ongoing storm.So at this point,good luck,great wishes,happy fishing,now that you know how,and we will leave you for the multitude of others who are willing to learn to fish on their own,right after we finish this fish I just handed him.
Jurassicprince, thanks.
rougerunner,
Your long rant is nearly impossible to read.
I recommend breaking it up into a few 500-word paragraphs.
gpigs,
No need to cut and paste your comment a second time.
That just makes it twice as wrong.
Graham Jenkins writes:
"What happened to America, land of boundless compassion, wisdom, feelings for the plight of one's fellow man?"
I think you hit it on the head. I, too, was rather shocked at some of the comments posted.
I think there have always been two forces operating in America, and actually, in humankind. Simplified, it is the struggle between kindness, compassion, tolerance, and love of one's neighbor vs hostility shown for outsiders, intolerance, and hatred of anyone different than oneself.
In the bible, the struggle if simplified into good vs evil. It is also simplified into the story of Cain and Abel.
There was a good OpEd in the NYT today about some of our worst characteristics, as Americans, vis a vis how we have treated new immigrants over the centuries:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/opinio...
In more recent American history, we have struggled with the notion of individualism vs the power of the the government. We still live in the "Wild West" in Nevada, and the notion of individuality and "I am not my brother's keeper" are still strong.
At the same time, we live in and depend upon an extremely complex economic system over which, most of the time, the individual has little or no control.
Few of the 25% of Americans who lost their jobs in the Great Depression had anything to do with triggering that economic collapse.
FDR created the New Deal as a result, creating unemployment insurance, Social Security, insuring bank accounts, etc. It was the opposite of the Wild West motto of individuality, and instead reflected the reality of our complex economic world. Most of us are no longer cowpokes but are rather small cogs in complex organizations. The philosophy of the New Deal was "I am my brother's keeper." In other words, we're all in this together and we are willing to help each other out in times of need. Who knows when the next recession is going to hit and what industry or industries will be affected by it? Some did not agree with this notion and the Republican Party, in particular, actually fought against the New Deal from the beginning.
Few of the 10 million who lost their jobs recently in the Great Recession had much to do with losing those jobs. Unlike those who lost their jobs during the Great Depression, however, their bank accounts were insured by the govt, they were able to receive unemployment insurance and the aged receive Social Security.
Meanwhile, the Republicans are still fighting against the New Deal (as embodied in Sharron Angle and many other Republican candidates) and would like to return America to the pre-Great Depression era, where each individual is on his own, whether the economy collapses or booms.
The best embodiment of this political philosophy is "I am not my brother's keeper."
Which has interesting biblical connotations, because when Cain killed his brother Abel, and God asked Cain where Abel was, Cain's reply to God was "Am I my brother's keeper?"
Clearly Cain was not. And soon afterwards he was cursed by God to live his life in the most difficult fashion possible--by being homeless and scrounging for a living for the rest of his life.
I think the biblical message is still applicable to our modern world.
There are those who prefer to live in a world where no one cares about the plight of their fellow citizens but are only concerned about themselves, and there are those who would prefer to live in a society where its members help each other out in times of need.
Both sides were reflected in the comments section of the man who was about to become homeless.
According to the Democrat philosophy, the man has paid his taxes into a common pool, and is now down on his luck. He deserves to be helped out.
According to the Republican philosophy, the man deserves nothing and should stop bothering the rest of us with his sob story.
Those two philosophies are really what the upcoming election is all about.
AP
I didn't expect all to use their common sense.I broke it down to the simplest form of understanding from my perspective.Obviosly you still have no understanding of views other than your own,thus it becomes a rant to you.Ia'm sure others get what Iam saying very clearly.Thanks for the recommendation,you have made me realize it is not the content that matters,but the length of the comment that matters.Thanks for bringing this up,and for discussing all the important matters others will surley write about what you failed to comprehend or write about.I don't care what U think about what I say,all ia'm putting out there is a view,to discuss,hear it or not,sorry I brought it up,another waste of time.I'll make this short for ya,BYE.
gbigs writes:
"Dont kid yourself. Hispanics do not want to integrate, and do not want to learn the language, or even follow the laws.They come here illiterate, uneducated, diseased in many cases, and ready to be taken care of in the grand old open sore called the social support network of the USA."
Hey gibs, why don't we just round them up? Along with the Democrats? We could put them into camps and build some big ovens and get some bars of soap--you know the drill, right?
That way, we could get rid of all of this country's problems, although we might want to round up some gays while we're at it, and also those who think evolution actually exists (how cray are THEY!?).
What do you say?
You know, seriously, gbigs, the more you post, the more you seem to be slipping into a 1939 Hitlerian fantasy land.
Aren't you part of the Christian right? Isn't this Sunday, the one day where you might simmer down a bit and at least hide your hatred in the holy book for a few hours? Come up for air?
Are you ok, fella?
AP
Nothing in the Constitution provides for veterans benefits. They are just as socialistic as Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance, if not more so. That is why Senator Alan Simpson is saying the "Veterans are hurting America" by their insatiable demands.
Funds are taken from employees and employers for Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment INSURANCE. Insurance programs.
SO to be ideologically consistent, people like "nez.." should look at the Military as the largest group of socialists in American Society.
Just take a look at all the new GOVERNMENT housing out at places like Nellis. Like there is not enough vacant housing in Las Vegas for the military people? In fact military people would be safer out in the community than concentrated on a base. Plus it would help the local real estate market.
Then look at the whole military contractor issue. How many billions of "income redistribution" are involved there?
Let us fight socialism by cuts in the US Military.
If the guy feature in the story was a Military Person (many Military families on food stamps) or if he was a VET, the venom and vitriol my be contained.
Looks like teabagger gwigs has decided to let his inner-racist come out of the closet.
bg
That is precisely my point why? would I or you want to move from a system that gives great returns for one that is going to ruled by someone else and we would be nickeled and dimed to the point where there would be no return or a safety net.
Americanpatriot
Excellent post I remember seeing a poll that took place about a year ago and the jest of it was that more than 50% of the population does not have a designated religious group such as catholic or baptist etc. and I found that I was in that group because I got tired of going to church to worship and all I would hear from the pulpit was Rush Limbaugh or the same and then they would pass the plate for the collection, I believe that is the reason people don't go as much because the christian coalition and the republicans are trying to push there agenda by way of the church. The comparison that you used about my brothers keeper that was a correct comparison.
gbigs writes:
"Dems raise taxes, killing, jobs, and incomes."
Actually the Republicans cut taxes for the wealthy and as a consequence have created over 3/4 of today's astronomical national debt, which is crippling us. And they still want to keep those tax cuts in place. Which will benefit Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers but destroy the nation.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/...
Gap Between Rich and Poor Continues to Grow for Last 30 Years:
Graph of gap between rich and poor for last 30 years:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=vie...
AP
Actually, gbigs, you might want to go see a psychiatrist.
Because all of the qualities that you listed perfectly describe yourself.
Have you heard of "projection?"
That's pretty scary, hateful stuff seeping out of your brain, gbigs.
Are you alright, fella?
AP
Time for Crazy Angle supporters to PANIC! because their favorite polling outfit, Rasmussen, shows a 5-point swing toward Sen. Reid in just two weeks
___________
Rasmussen Sept 1st poll:
Reid - 50%
Angle - 47%
Last Throes...your name, like mine would imply you don't think it makes any difference whether Angle or Reid is our next Senator...but, I sense you think Reid is the much better choice...seems irrational...however, as usual, I am confused by life and the choices most make...
Purgatory
I picked this name as a reminder of Dick Cheney's famous statement that al-Qaeda was in its last throes. He was looking for reasons to leave Afghanistan and invade Iraq, which we know was a terrible decision.
I'm a lifelong Democrat who thinks the GOP will ruin this country if given the chance. They've already proven that.
What happened?
You can chart America's downturn, apathy and all-around nastiness - with the development of the internet. If you remember Yahoo used to have a real-time comment section on just about everything they posted - My Gawd, there were NO BOUNDS to the vernacular sewage that overwhelmed every forum, every topic - to the point Yahoo eliminated it to a much more moderated version.
The media also fuels the division of CNN America vs. Fox America...how simple minded we have become!
Every year, there seems to be a new low - for the hostility and foul-language politics and personal opinion. The other factor is the self-centered and trashy generation X & Y. You cannot deny the fact - people say cruel and obnoxious stuff today - that would never be whispered in the 50's.
America has lost most "class" it once had there are no formalities anymore - Just flip-flops, shorts, twiter nerds and palm pilot gutter mouth!
Bogans is the Australian term.
It began in the 80's under Reagan with the beginning of voodoo economics,ie trickle down. The Rich got richer and everybody else got f*cked!
We're taking the country back, all the way back to the 19th Century, where everybody paddles their own canoe.
People like bigsie don't care about nothing but money. The only measure of a man is the size of their bank account, That's why they kow-tow to the likes of big-oil polluters like the Koch brothers. Teabagging whores doing anything for money, and dirty blood money at that.
This started out as a story about COMPASSION and turned into a "Tea Party" vs "Republican" vs "Democrat" vs "Libertarian" debate. How did it get to that?
anchor: "The wealthiest people in America pay far more in taxes then the poor or the middle class."
+++++
Maybe it has something to do with the wealthiest people in America having far more of the means of production than the poor or middle class?
gbigs:
The bottom 50% pay NO tax?
No gas tax, no sales tax, no alcohol/tobacco tax?
No DMV or other fees?
even jesus got frustrated toward the end. all of us have taken our eye off the ball so to speak. we're in deep sh*t as a nation and it wont take much to put us over the edge. like the chinaman says" no tickee, no washee!"
PREDICTION:
Lady gfigsagogo will have a serious heart attack on Nov 3rd.
You heard it here first.
gbigs:
Well, could it be that after they have paid all the other taxes they don't anything left to pay any Federal taxes?
@gogowhitesox: "We're taking this country back to the days whe you had a RESPONSIBILITY to your fellow citizen to get up in the morning and put in a productive day - for which you were paid a productive FAIR wage."
So the people who make 5, 10, 100 million dollars a year are taking a pay cut under your plan. They certainly aren't making a fair wage now. You sound like a Communist!
Really, do people making $50 million or more really create more jobs than people making $350,000 (e.g. founder of Costco). No. The few who actually run companies keep cutting wages and people to keep their own income up not to save the company. Most people making obscene amounts of money are trading on Wall Street, you know, the people bailed out by Bush and company through TARP.
@gbigs: "it has to do with the NON progressive nature of the tax code."
Actually, the U.S. tax code is progressive: "A progressive tax is a tax by which the tax rate increases as the taxable base amount increases." wikipedia
You argue a lot about the tax code. Not to get too personal, but are you personally affected by the $250,000 thing or is it just on principle? Or put another way: is $250,000 too low or is it just any tax rate changes (going back to where they were according to the law already in place)?
I don't mind my taxes going up if it'll help the next generation.
@gbigs said "U.S. troops join Baghdad battle against militants Sunday.
Obama lied about combat troops still in Iraq."
According to the article you linked to, "The American troops who joined the fight and provided cover fire for Iraqi soldiers pursuing the attackers were based at the compound to train Iraqi forces."
Let me see if I have this right. Obama follows Bush's timetable for troop withdrawal based upon an agreement with the sovereign government of Iraq and that bothers you. Our troops are attacked and fight back and that bothers you.
So, should we have left combat troops in Iraq forever and not let them defend themselves when they are attacked?
Dude, you're really inconsistent.
@gbigs, you said, and I quote "Democrats tried to give houses to the poor, they called it "Affordable Housing For The Poor". Affordable equals "subprime" That resulted in the econ crash,and in the loss of middle class wealth. That kind of compassion? The Democrats are evil. Turn them out in Nov."
The article you cite is from 2008 and talks about 2004. Think back. Who was in power? Republicans! For at least 3 years. They could've done something about the issue but they didn't. Wait. You're going to say "DODD!" and he blocked reform. Actually, he threatened a filibuster so the Republicans didn't even bring the reform bill up for a vote. They could have. But they didn't care enough to even try. Republicans could have tried to pass reform and they might have failed. That's a lot better than what they did: NOTHING! Same durn thing they've been doing for the last 4 years.
sgibg writes about gbigs' post:
"The article you cite is from 2008 and talks about 2004. Think back. Who was in power? Republicans! For at least 3 years. They could've done something about the issue but they didn't."
Completely true. However,logic and facts make no difference to gbigs. He will take his belief with him to the grave--and gets angry if you contradict his unsupported opinion.
So be it.
Bush actually urged the acquisition of subprime loans since at least 2002.
George W. Bush, "Home of Your Own" speech, May 17, 2002:
"The single greatest barrier to first time home ownership is a high down payment, it is really hard for many, many, low income families to make the high down payment, and so that's why I proposed and urge congress to fully fund the 'American Dream Down Payment Fund', this will use tax payer money to help a low income buyer make a down payment"
"If one of the barriers to home ownership is the inability to make a down payment, and one of the goals is to increase home ownership, it makes sense to help people to pay that down payment"
"I've proposed what we call a single family affordable housing tax credit, to encourage the development of affordable housing in neighborhoods where housing is scarce."
"We certainly don't want there to be fine print preventing people from owning their home, we can change the print"
"These are important initiatives that we can do at the federal government, and the federal government obviously has to play an important role, and we will, when I lay out a goal I mean it"
"The real estate industry benefits when people are encouraged to buy homes, it's in their self interest that we encourage people to buy homes"
"So one of the things I want to talk about today is how to create a sustained commitment by the private sector that will have a powerful impact. First of all, we want to make sure that we help work to expand capital available to buyers, and as I mentioned overcome the barriers."
"That's why I've challenged the industry leaders all across the country, to get after it for this goal, to stay focused, to make sure that we achieve a more secure America, by achieving the goal of five and half million new minority home owners, I call it 'America's Home Ownership Challenge'."
"First of all government sponsored corporations that helped create our mortgage system, I introduced two of the leaders here today, they call those people Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as well as the federal home loan banks, will increase their commitment to minority markets by more than 440 billion dollars."
"I want to thank Leland (Freddie Mac) and Franklin (Fannie Mae) for that commitment; it's a commitment that conforms to their charters as well and also conforms to their hearts. This means they will purchase more loans made by banks to African Americans, Hispanics, and other minorities which will encourage home ownership. Freddie Mac will launch 25 initiatives to eliminate home ownership barriers, under one of these consumers with poor credit will be able to get a mortgage with an interest rate that automatically goes down after a period of consistent payments."
"I'm serious about this, this is a very important initiative, for all of America, see it as a chance for us to empower people, we're not going to talk about empowering government, we are talking about empowering people so they have got choices over their lives"
"It means we use the mighty muscle of the federal government in combination with state and local governments to encourage owning your own home."
AP
gbigs writes:
"Democrats tried to give houses to the poor, they called it "Affordable Housing For The Poor". Affordable equals "subprime." That resulted in the econ crash, and in the loss of middle class wealth."
Sorry to continue bursting your bubble, gbigs, but your assertion that the Dems pushed Fannie and Freddie to take on subprime mortgages when they took over Congress in 2007 is not true. Bush began the process in 2002. The housing bubble actually popped in 2007:
"Builders to fight Bush's low-income plan
Groups ask HUD to rethink plan that would increase financing of homes to low-income people"
June 17, 2004
"The National Association of Home Builders, along with the National Association of Realtors and the Mortgage Bankers Association, are drafting a letter to Alphonso Jackson, secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), arguing that middle-income home buyers are the ones that will get hurt by the proposed plan, the NAHB told CNN/Money.
In April, the HUD proposed new rules that would raise the percentage of loans bought by the two government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) that finance borrowers whose incomes are at or below the median for their area, according to the Wall Street Journal .
But the groups will warn in the letter that the proposed rules requiring the two GSEs to finance more "affordable housing" may have "unintended consequences," hurting some poor and middle-income people struggling to afford houses, the Journal said."
http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/17/real_est...
AP
"White House Philosophy Stoked Mortgage Bonfire"
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/busine...
Greedy, selfish republicans don't care about the
poor.
GREEDY REPUBLICANS STEAL FROM THE POOR AND
GIVE TO THE RICH.
THIS WILL NEVER CHANGE.
Keep voting these greedy republican crooks
and thieves out of power.
fosimmons says don't shop Walmart stop China in it's tracks. Don't get out much do you. Don't go to Sears, Kohls, Home Depot, Lowes, Michaels, Target, Kmart, Family Dollar, any dollar store, just about any retailer. If you weren't so afraid of rubbing shoulders with actual working people you could roam the aisles of your local clean, neat, brightly lit, well merchandised Walmart and find they carry thousands of USA made items. Even if you buy an item you consider made in America it could be chock full of Chinese or Mexican parts and you wouldn't even know it. We supply items to retailers like Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, and professional installers with products made in China or chock full of Chinese parts. One only needs 60% content to be declared made in USA. Most of our stuff from China we don't even put made in China on the box anymore.
Many of us are hurting. I lost my job and have done full or part time temporary work where I can find it for the past 2 years now. It's all that's available. I didn't draw one dime of unemployment, some work of any kind is better than not working I'm not blaming Obama or Bush for my situation, although there is plenty of fault to find with their policies. I will survive despite the lousy policies of government. We've cut back spending, sold belongings, No more trips to Las Vegas, Didn't run the A/C all summer to save money, got to pay a 10% tax penalty for a 401k withdrawl made to pay bills (where's my stinking bailout). I get to pay $600 a month in Cobra insurance and one doctor visit (with lab tests) cost me another $900 out of pocket that I don't have (deductible to meet). But I will pay it somehow. Fortunately we kept our smaller older house that is still (barely) affordable. I'll probably soon be selling my (paid cash for when full time employed) 2008 car and go back to driving a 1998 to save money and get some cash for bills. So if one wants to call me "heartless" because I find fault with those taking from the system, go ahead, but I am hardly "living in luxury". We will give up what we have to in order to get by without handouts. My parents taught me about pride in yourself and hard work, even if it meens working outside in dusty 100 degree heat because it's a paying job. I will not whine about any of the above, I state it merely as an example of why some of us are sick of paying and paying while the freeloaders keep taking and taking. For the record, while I'm obviously not rich, I will vote Republican because it's the best chance to see the current spending spree toward bankruptcy brought under control. The jobs are not there, and the current policies only favor the government workers and their bloated retirements at the expense of the rest of us. Years from now, I can look back with pride at surviving this national depression.
I thought Joe Goebbels was dead but from the looks of many forums lately he must have been reincarnated. With the outcry of the bonuses for the deadbeat bankers, huge record salaries and bonuses at hedge funds, and now the rich trying hard to extend their tax cuts the propaganda campaign to divert the publics attention from them is in full swing. The pocketbooks of the rich are riding on this campaign whether it be the tax hikes or getting their friends the party of no, no for real people yes for the rich, in control of congress.
The rich and the party of no are doing quite well with their propaganda as the rest of us turn on each other with each "revelation". The bottom half don't pay any federal taxes, unemployement would end if we ended unemployment checks, only rich people create jobs, American workers are lazy and feel entitled and would rather sit home and collect UI or welfare, baby boomers are lazy and feel entitled and if they only got off their duff there would be no need for SS or medicare, there are plenty of jobs out there but Americans are too lazy to work, there are plenty of jobs out there but Americans can't get them because they are uneducated or not educated enough, yada, yada, yada. All these revelations and more like them are outright lies or distortions of the facts. They may be lies but they are having the intended effect. The rich and the party of no are now heros and the lower classes are on a witchhunt for all those deadbeats and cheats.
I'm all for bringing all our men and women of the military home pronto. Whether it be Germany, Iraq, or anyplace else. Let the world police itself. If they can't we will lob a nuke their way. Many of our people died or got maimed, physically and mentally, in service to our country. It disturbs me to see the latest propaganda wave calling for eliminating all veterans benefits. These people paid a huge price for serving, some paying the ultimate price of losing their life. Now to save a few bucks and continue welfare for the rich some people want to show their gratitude by cutting veterans off at the knees.
Bakersfield writes:
"I state it merely as an example of why some of us are sick of paying and paying while the freeloaders keep taking and taking."
Since the "freeloaders" presumably have been paying taxes all of their lives, why is it "free loading" to receive unemployment benefits that are paid for by your taxes?
A good analogy is that a circus troop performs dangerous acrobatic moves high in the air with no safety net. They have no safety net, because they can't afford it. Other performers do the same, at the same location. When they fall, they are seriously injured and occasionally die.
The performers come up with a plan: how about we all chip in and buy a safety net? If anyone falls, they will be saved.
They try this and it works. However, one performer refuses to participate. He says that using the safety net they have all pooled their money together for is "freeloading." He would prefer to do his trapeze work without the net.
Each his own. But your choice makes little sense. And your characterization of people using the very same safety net they have all chipped in for as "freeloaders" is untrue.
"For the record, while I'm obviously not rich, I will vote Republican because it's the best chance to see the current spending spree toward bankruptcy brought under control."
I'm afraid your opinion is not based upon fact.
Reagan cut taxes and tripled the national debt, converting the U.S. from a lending nation into a debtor nation.
Bush I cut taxes and doubled the national debt again.
Clinton raised taxes, balanced the budget, and began paying down the deficit. It would have been entirely paid off by 2009.
Bush II cut taxes and doubled the national debt again, adding 4 1/2 trillion dollars to it.
So when you say "I will vote Republican because it's the best chance to see the current spending spree toward bankruptcy brought under control" what on Earth are you using as facts to justify your opinion?
No Republican administration has balanced the budget (let alone pay off any national debt) in more than 30 years.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/...
"The jobs are not there, and the current policies only favor the government workers and their bloated retirements at the expense of the rest of us."
Once again, you provide opinions that are not based upon facts.
Bush employment vs Obama employment
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-...
GDP
http://www.bsu.edu/ibb/us/gdp00.htm
GDP in Bush's last quarter: down 6.3%
http://useconomy.about.com/b/2009/02/27/...
You're welcome to state any opinion you like here, but if you want to convince someone that your opinion is actually based upon reality, how about posting some facts to back it up with?
Otherwise, it is just one more unsubstantiated opinion.
AP
Bakerfield,
If you call yourself Bakersfield because you live there, well, that's your biggest problem.
AP.....
It's hard to believe that average Americans,
who lost almost everything, are still voting
republican.
How much loss does it take for them to see
the light?
Amazing.
Why do I think this author's article was directed at a lot of the comments I made to Rodger? Where is part 2 of the homelessness series, anyways? Did the author see the hostile reaction to the first part and call it quits? There is too much about Rodger's story that makes me not feel sorry for him. I think he is a professional liar, like many writers. The more fictional a true story can be, the better, I have found with many writers, if you understand what I'm saying.
The next segment is forthcoming, Samjung, and, please, get over yourself -- there were well over 300 comments to the first story. I hardly think the letter writer was directing his comments specifically at you.
Why have so many of you turned this into a political diatribe? Graham's letter asks a pointed question about compassion in America, not about left vs. right, Democrats vs. Republicans. His letter is totally apolitical. Let's keep it on point, shall we?
Rodger, how are you posting this?????
Don't be facetious, Samjung. We are in an extended stay weekly rental and, yes, that is the equivalent of being homeless: we have no lease, no fixed address, if we miss a week of rent they lock us out of our room until the past due amount is paid in full. This is hardly a stable, tenable lifestyle.
I would enjoy reading more on your literary theory that "the more fictional a true story can be, the better" and how it applies to my first-person essay for The Sun.
samjung, just my opinion here, but I'm thinking Rodger isn't obligated to provide you a response. In fact, in reviewing your previous comments on this and other subjects (by clicking on your name), you appear to suffer from a dearth of positive input on most any subject. Sad. Of course, that's just my perspective.
patriot,
I was not calling those who after years of working need to take unemployment for awhile "freeloaders" sorry if I was not clear.
If someone pays into it, they're entitled. But I feel 99 weeks is excessive. I don't know how one could survive on unemployment beyond a month or 2 anyway. It wouldn't cover mortgage (or rent) payments and $600 a month Cobra payment, not to mention all other monthly expenses.
There are millions upon millions gaming the system and doing whatever they can to avoid working because there's so much "free" government money. Also, the public employee unions have created an unsustainable expense on the excessive pension and benefit plans. We are now paying for that irresponsible generosity handed out by politicians who failed at simple math. You seem to selectively choose your stats while leaving out the fact that your guys are now in control and we are in the worst depression of my 50+ year lifetime. I'm sure you long for the good old days of 24% interest rates and super inflation that Carter gave us. You also fail to remember who controlled congress in most of the Clinton years.
last throes, So you don't like where I live, ask if I care. Why don't you explain your problem with Bakersfield so we can all be better "informed"! It's actually similar to Las Vegas, but without the casinos, traffic, strip clubs, adult stores, far less "vice" etc.
LastThroes is hardly an upbeat moniker. Maybe I can change my name to "Malibu" so you will think I live there, It wouldn't be deceiving since my Chevy says "Malibu" on it!
Rodger, Glad you're in a place, even if it's a "weekly" type rent. Sounds better than the previous housing situation you were in. Good Luck.
b'field; if we had listened to carter, we wouldnt be in this situation now. instead of being energy independent, we subsidize the very terrorists that we seek to destroy. you have forgotten how the republicans operate and what their motto is, " we're only in it for the money!"
Bakersfield writes"
"don't know how one could survive on unemployment beyond a month or 2 anyway. It wouldn't cover mortgage (or rent) payments and $600 a month Cobra payment, not to mention all other monthly expenses."
That's part of the point. Unemployment was never intended as life on easy street, but to keep you and your family from starving to death if you can't find work. 10 million jobs disappeared virtually overnight in America. It will take years for them to reappear again. It took 5 years to regain the jobs lost after the relatively mild tech meltdown in 2000. 10 years and WWII to get the ones lost during the Great Depression. SO 99 weeks is a drop in lake.
"There are millions upon millions gaming the system and doing whatever they can to avoid working because there's so much "free" government money."
You just said that you don't see how anyone can survive on unemployment. You have to be unemployed to receive the tiny bit that you do receive. So please provide your stats on the "millions gaming the system" please. You offer an opinion, but no facts.
"Also, the public employee unions have created an unsustainable expense on the excessive pension and benefit plans. We are now paying for that irresponsible generosity handed out by politicians who failed at simple math."
Please provide the links and stats. Again, you provide another unsubstantiated opinion.
"You seem to selectively choose your stats while leaving out the fact that your guys are now in control and we are in the worst depression of my 50+ year lifetime."
No offense, but do you remember when that recession hit? Do you remember Bush desperately using tax money to try and prevent the entire banking system from collapsing (that is, TARP). Do you remember when the housing market collapsed? In Bush's last month on the job, more than 650,000 jobs were lost. So I'm curious how you mesh "you guys are in control and we are in the worst depression in my lifetime."
That's like saying in 1932, when Roosevelt was elected, that you're unhappy with the 1929 stock market collapse.
"I'm sure you long for the good old days of 24% interest rates and super inflation that Carter gave us."
When Carter left office, our entire national debt was around 900 billion dollars. There was also a thing called the "Arab oil embargo." When Reagan left office, 8 years later, our national debt was around three trillion dollars. Every Republican president beginning with Reagan has either doubled or tripled the national debt.
"You also fail to remember who controlled congress in most of the Clinton years."
That's part of the myth that the president is helpless before Congress in terms of the annual budget, which is a Republican myth. The truth is that the president creates the annual budget, submits it to Congress, and can veto it if he does not like it. Reagan created "Reaganomics" with a Democrat-controlled Congress. Clinton raised taxes with a Republican-controlled Congress. Clinton passed on a budget surplus to Bush II, Bush II immediately cut taxes, and the result was a doubling of the national debt again.
Those are the facts. Look them up yourself.
Good luck to you in your job search. I hope you find one.
AP
Americans are the down trodden, unless you work for the government;
START WITH THE THEIVES WHO WORK FOR THE FEDERAL GOV. 80% of budget goes to salaries and benefits and they are DOUBLE the national private sector.
STOP IT NOW, do not extend any contracts again above the private sector rate. You don't even have to fire these worthless sleazes, JUST DO NOT RE-HIRE anyone who does not WANT to work for the same compensation as their bosses, the taxpayers
If we did not throw away our resources on overpaid worthless union employees, and worthless wars, overpriced defense that is never used..100 billion alone each year on illegals, another 100 billion a year on the stupid, waste, failure we call WAR ON DRUGS....then we would have plenty for our citizens!!
Our local and national government tries to rattle everyone! We are even encouraged to 'rat out our neighbors' because of their license plates! WE need to resist, it can only stop with us. Have some compassion....help someone! Be brave, try it.
@dipstick, amen.
@ohcalcutagirl, instead of attacking an organization that is providing middle class jobs, you should attack the crooked CEO's in the private sector that are paying themselves millions and then trying to find excuses to pay working class people less. That is the real crime there.
If you work in Vegas and don't want federal government employees to make as much as they do, then they aren't going to come to Vegas and give you business and enable you to stay employed! Are you going to depend on Bill Gates to keep Vegas running?
What I see bleeding out from all the comments is that we are all scared.Grahm seems surprised that the comments are not all homogenised and contain blind support and compassion.I'am not.A thound people,a thousand stories,a thousand circumstances.We are all scared for the future,only in different capacities.Some are scared that they have reasoning like Rodger,and can very well end up like Rodger.Some are scared they have medical conditions and can end up like Rodger.Some are doing all they personally can to avoid falling off a cliff,and the next little push sends them to the bottom.The middle class is scared of loosing their job and home,if they haven't already.The upper class is scared of their investments,made in a time of plenty,are now obsolete and will blow up to the point of uselessness.Yes,we are all scared now that it is all too easy to end up like Rodger.I saw compassion in a multitude of ways in this article.Blind sympathy & compassion,didn't matter if Rodger took control of his life or not.I also saw compassion with a price,the price being that Rodger had to wake the hell up and do something for himself to further his best interests.These people had their stories of how they pulled themselves out of the hole,and furthered the knowledge along to Rodger.There were others who never have been in Rodgers shoes,but also knew from personal expierience the road to success and was willing to share.Rodger wanted money and compassion,and Ia'm sure it came from all spectrums of people.The overall majority of people really were there to help Rodger,through money,example,knowledge,expierience,encouragement etc.Yes,there will always be the cruel distractors in any endevor,and for this they should be shamed.But Grahm,the letter writer seems more content pointing out the few idiots he spotted,than to acknoledge the huge and overwhelming support Rodger recieved,from people all over,given in their own unique way,for the benifit of Rodger.Ia'm scared too,that Rodger and the letter writer will ignore all that positve effects that could have unfolded here,and will center on the negative.I might write a letter to the editor about all the people that went way out of their way for Rodger,that to this day seems unappreciated by many.
I have medical problems-That doesn't give me the right to rant or vent for financial help -Roger needs to believe in himself to better his life.
Everyone is suffering in this recession that's a fact.
People did give Roger good info-I hope he uses it.
Ya,I think Rodger really was sitting on a goldmine, dug up for him personally by many others.We found some gold for him,shown him how to use the pick,then gave the pick to him.It's now time for Rodger to pick up the pick and start picking.Pick up the remaining pieces of your life and start diggin for the gold that others have displayed before you,not use the pick to make a deeper hole for yourself.This is not a temporary thing.You will be back for more and so will many others,no different in their circumstances,if you can't see the gold layed out for you and the direction to dig.The gold is out there if your willing to search for it.This was a real creative way by Rodger to attract that gold.I hope he continues to accert creativity in the endevor to better himself.It's his choice,what is gold,and what to do with it when its value is discovered.Still,best wishes in all your desisions.
@dipstick:
No, dipstick, thank God, here we're not in China, where they consider it not being a crime to kill newborn female babies, because they aren't male. Forget about the China option.
America the Brutal
In the 1950's nobody would have bought anything from China. I Remember it was called RED CHINA and is still communist to this day. Why are we trading and building airbases in communist countries. If Americans were to see all the factory workers, new business parks and growing number of millionaires & billionaires over there they would freak out and make this government right again. Rolls Royce sells the highest numbers of their cars to China. How many Americans are buying a Rolls, not many in my neighborhood.
Shoot em all. Let God sort them out.
patriot,
Fortunately, in my 30 years in the same field, I have made many friends. While full time employment is gone, I have survuived by calling those friends and getting short term projects to work on which add up to enough to keep the bills paid. One has offered something every month, but that is half what it was last year. Many have told me I should take unemployment and keep quiet about the small jobs I get. That would be gaming the system not to mention illegal, so I have chosen not to pursue that avenue, although I know of others who have done that. We are surviving on what we have, and when they start building houses again, I will see more work. That's not going to be anytime soon. I actually have a little occasional work here and there for 3 different house builders who are still barely in business. The fact that I am finding enough work and creative ways (ebay, etc.) to make ends meet should be enough proof that I'm a hard worker.
Regarding the bloated pensions, I guess you just started reading the paper yesterday. Many recent articles covering CCFD pay, County, City and State employees (pick any county, city or state). Here in my county and City, like Clark and L.V. there are attempts to try and get employees to pay a small portion of their health care and also to get employees to pay more into their broken pension system. I expect strikes before the SEIU will accept that. There are articles in all the papers across the nation about similar problems. We can't afford to give people full retirement, health care, etc. at age 50. It's breaking the system as more and more retire and the pool of money is stagnant.
I agree that Bush was not the greatest. I was against the spending. I was against the big money given to the banks (much of which went to obscene executive bonuses). Those same banks are raising MY interest rates because I still make my payments, while many have walked away from their obligations. Maybe some of that TARP money could have been used to reward responsible people with at the very least, an interest rate reduction. I was also against Obama's Cash for clunkers money to people buying foreign cars. Toyota made out like bandits while Obama forced bankruptcy and dealership closures on 2 American companies. Any incentives should have been limited to American brands, and then only on models made in America by those AMERICAN brands. So yes, The last 2 administrations have been failures, no spin from either side can change that.
I also have no sympathy for those who bought houses they couldn't afford (much nicer, newer and larger than mine) and now want a bailout. I stayed in my little place and that's why I can still keep up the payments, even with less than steady employment.
I'm just amazed that you are not aware of the serious problems going on with the public employee retirement and benefit costs. Who needs a link for that?
Good luck to you, we may disagree on some points, but I do wish you the best
Love how good posts got deleted but the BS remains-Done with it.
What Happened?
America voted in a man who hates 50 per cent of America - who calls them names. America voted into power a man who thinks that 10 per cent unemployment is just fine; it will be here for a long time so live with it. Obama is a man who thinks we should pay millions for the secret service for his golf trips, dinner dates, and wife's lavish travels to Europe. America voted in a mean spirited President, who slams half of America every time he can. He refuses to take responsibility; he hates so many things. His wife hated America until her husband was elected President.
When you have such a horrible role model as President of the United States, it only follows that some will try to be just like him and slam others. President Obama has slammed the military; the military families; and so many others.
I disliked the comments yesterday too - but it is time to realize that the President is totally and completely at fault for his total lack of being a role model. \ When the news covers such people every day - it only follows that some readers try their hand at Obama-speak. Its sad; its horrible; and its unfortunate.
Where have our statesmen gone in office? we are stuck with a handful of fools in Washington DC for our children to look up to....
How do you explain to your kids to be nice when Obama is not. And how do you tell your child its ok to want to be president; but place try to be nicer and kinder than the one you see on TV. Its a wierd world due to the fact that he slams so many people each day instead of want to build bridges like those who were there before him.
We should change the national anthem to Guns n'Roses' "Welcome to the Jungle!
@lovestohike
The tone of your post struck me as unusually negative, so I took a look at your 40 posts. 37 out of 40 take pokes at Obama, Reid, or both. The remaining three don't have much to say, either. How many stations do you get on your TV?
Point, game and match goes to Bakersfield.
Maybe so. Or is it still a free country?
I get so sick of you gangbangers blaming other gangs for the demise of this country. Yes, the definition applies to you political gangs as well, don't you have your colors?, aren't they red and blue also? aren't you hating someone from the opposite politcal party without even knowing them?
Until Americans wake up and learn to think for themselves and realize NO ONE GROUP has all the answers, we will only be reading more articles like this, or experience it for ourselves.
I do not currently nor have I ever belonged to a gang, my grandparents did, and watching them vote for that person in their gang even if they didn't agree with him on the issues made me realize I didn't want to be turned into a sheep, mindlessly following big business ( the government) blindly. It amazes me to see how many normally intelligent people turn into sheep when dealing with the biggest, most corrupt, mob. Why is it okay because they made themselves legal? I am almost positive that if the New York or Chicago Crime families could make their "mobs" legal they would.
Also LOVESTOHIKE let me ask you this, were the gangs friendly BEFORE Obama took office? Or was the mean spirited things being said before he took office Bush-speak? To answer your question no I didn't vote Obama, I personally thought this was the governments way of getting rid of the possibility of having a black president for decades to come. By time Obama leaves the white house people will forget Bush started the decline, Obamas inexperience just added to it.