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Monday, Oct. 25, 2010 | 7:23 p.m.
Sun Coverage
Nevada Labor Commissioner Michael Tanchek has upheld the groundbreaking Wynn Las Vegas policy of requiring casino dealers to share tips with managers -- but that hasn't stopped attorneys and workers from challenging that and similar arrangements.
The latest challenge came Monday when attorneys filed a lawsuit in federal court in Las Vegas that is proposed to be a class action representing workers at Wynn's Tryst and XS nightclubs.
The suit charges that in violation of the contract between Wynn and the Culinary Union, Wynn has forced union-covered nightclub employees to share tips with management personnel.
The lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction barring Wynn from continuing a mandatory tip distribution policy, an accounting of all money the employees shared with management and a requirement that the "misappropriated gratuities" be returned.
Plaintiffs in the suit are Kevin Carter, a shop steward for Bartenders Union Local 165; and Daniel Gerstel, a shop steward for Culinary Union Local 226.
Attorneys for Wynn have not yet responded to the allegations.
Discussion: 13 comments so far…
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I hope the employees win. If Wynn wants to pay his managers more, then let him pay them more. Just another example of WHY the worker needs representation. Owner greed.
If you are a working stiff, like MOST of us in this town, and you think huge profits are going to "trickle down" to you, you're living in a dream world. WAKE UP working conservative fools.
God Bless America, and the hard working man and woman.
Ronster you are not making any sense. The problem here is not one of a "trickle down" effect, it is actually the complete opposite. The servers at XS and Tryst (two of the most popular and most expensive clubs in LV) are pulling in obscene amounts of money in tips only BECAUSE OF the management. The management keeps these places popular and are the ones who bring in the customers that drop $10k a night on bottle service. Why should a server keep $1000+ in gratuity when it was the host, promoter, or club manager who set it all up? At strip clubs the girls are required to pay the club AND tip-out to the people who keep the place running... servers at nightclubs should be thankful that they have jobs that both pay them and allow them to make tips. If you don't like the tip-pooling policy, go somewhere else. There is a very long line of people who would be eager to take your place and tip-out without question. This isn't about Wynn trying to rip off the bartenders, it's about union bartenders trying to weasle their way out of sharing with the people who are keeping them in business.
Service Industry employees work hard for their tokes. Then Mr Wynn steals them. This should not be a civil suit. Stealing workers tips is criminal.
This type of attitude is exactly why business owners continue to look overseas.
.
If your only skill is having double D's, or you know the guy that does the hiring, just take your 75k job and stop whining.
.
The guy who actually has some skill, does the schedule, listens to the problem customers, enhances the marketing, and brings the clients in to your establishment to pay for those stupidly expensive tables and bottles is no less entitled to the tip as you are.
Get 'em, troops. The customers aren't tipping management, they're tipping the people that are serving them. Nevermind the nonsense the shills for Wynn post here, the old man is practicing larceny and extortion by seizing these tips that were never meant for him or his minions.
Please.please,please, Mr. Wynn, hire me.
Oh, I got the job? I'm suing!!!!
May the bosses of the mindless Wynn apologists steal from them, too. The apologists STILL might not be bright enough to realize they've been wronged. But the foggy stupor they'll be in when it occurs to them "uh... sumthin' ain't right, here (scratch, scratch)" will *hopefully* distract them from blathering on this site.
Or maybe I give them too much credit...
What a joke some of the logic that flows on this site is. People making TOO much money? Oh really? Who are you to judge and cast aspersions on those that work hard and make a tip for providing a "SERVICE". You clowns act as though people AUTOMATICALLY leave tips anymore. Wynn and his cronies trying to change the way "tips" have been handle historically is a joke and a sad commentary on their business practices. What really needs to happen here is a 1920's kind of worker uprising where those so willing to cut the throats of their comrades by accepting piss poor management policies get their asses kicked for trying to cross a picket line. Lets see if they end up getting that retirement age raised in France. The American worker could relearn a thing or two evidently. This would be so much rubbish if we were talking about Denny's, IHOP, or Applebee's waiters and waitresses. I dare anyone to try and implement this kind of policy where I work, I'll take my tips and walk out the door after punching them out and calling the cops for attempted theft.
Ben,
You're confused. I applaud Steve Wynn for trying to right a longtime wrong in Las Vegas. The rank and file who work for gratuities have long brought in, through tips, two or three times what their supervisors and managers earn.
So, one might ask, why is this a problem? It's simple, really. Casinos have a difficult time finding quality individuals to fill the middle management positions.
Why would anyone take a management position when their subordinates earn two or three times what they do?
Wynn is a commie crook. Simple as that.
If there's money coming in, and the front line personnel are doing great, why not let them continue doing great, but pay the difficult to hire managers more? Becasuse the greedy Mr. Wynn thinks he can get away with stealing money from his front line people to solve a management problem.
He is choosing greed. The law in Nevada may temporarily support him, because he owns certain influential people, but at the end of the road he's going to pay through the nose to settle this thing.
By then he'll be in Macau, with his commie Red Chinese buddies, thumbing his nose at the people of the USA and its judicial system.
"The rank and file who work for gratuities have long brought in, through tips, two or three times what their supervisors and managers earn."
That's a fatuous load BALONEY. Even if it weren't BS, it would be the responsibility of Wynn to pay better, not any excuse to steal. But the claim that floor managers are only getting paid --what? By your silly math, $30K a year?? -- is absolute garBAHHHGE.
Management is a professional level and should not be tipped. If Wynn's insists on sharing tips - just stop all tipping there and let management provide a decent salary for all employees - or loose the best employees.
How many of you who are criticizing Steve Wynn have even been to XS or Tryst? The Wynn nightclubs dominate Las Vegas nightlife. Wynn clearly knows what works, and what works is his management team. The bartenders and servers at Vegas clubs are interchangeable. It is a job that requires minimal skill. Doing it at run down club like LAX is about the same as doing it at XS. The difference between the two clubs is the management team who bring in the customers. Maybe the bartenders don't realize why they are so busy.. it's not because they are doing a great job, it's because a promoter or host is out hustling to bring in more customers. Customers can only tip people that they encounter. The bartenders and servers end up being the recipients of all the gratuity because the hosts are busy bringing in more people for the servers to serve. It's very simple... the bartenders and servers need to share with the people who are bringing them the customers. If they don't, they will leave and the Wynn clubs will fall off the map. I believe Steve Wynn is smart enough to not let this happen. He is not stealing from anyone. It's his business and he knows how to keep it running. Most of these employees knew how it worked when they were hired and last I checked they were free to quit if they didn't like the rules. These employees agreed to work under a tip-pooling policy and are now trying to exploit the law in attempt to take someone else's share. It seems pretty clear who the real thieves are.
if steve wynn wants to inspire employee loyalty, THIS is not the way to do it. management almost always have perks that union and non-union do not share such as health insurance, profit sharing and year end bonuses. wynn is razor sharp when it comes to making money even sleeping with the communist chinese, but if he wants to keep the ball rolling, taking tips away from the working stiffs will not work.
My wife and I like to eat breakfast and often supper at Magnolia's in the Four Queens, especially in the booths overlooking the blackjack pit.
If the posters on this article are correct in stating that the dealers earn much more than the pit bosses, then I agree with the poster Keith Justice. To think that the well-dressed bosses are earning much less than the casually dressed, bored dealers is shocking.
The same principle holds true with these nightclub workers. It is a perversion for staff to earn more than management.
As much as I have disagreed with some of Mr. Wynn's policies, such as the horrid "resort fee", he is in fact righting a wrong in regards to sharing tips.
Earth to FromBellevilleCanada----Hmmmm. You really think that comparing a dump like the Four Queens to Wynn is an intelligent argument? You lose just about all your credibility with that post.
The gap between tip and management positions has been narrowing for years and is nearly even or now management makes more in many places. Weinberg is just a jerk who doesn't want to pay his management the right amount of money so he steals the dealers tips to fill the gap--it really is that simple. Weinberg will end up in china with his communist friends--over there, no minimum wage, no 40 hour work week, no lawsuits over smoking or for firing the overweight girls. If anyone gets out of line we just roll out the tanks. He fits right in.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps.
I don't think tip sharing was part of the union contract with Wynn.
Keith,
Maybe they should pay supervisors and managers what they are worth. Good managers/supervisors will make more and poor managers/supervisors will go work at a local circle k in SanFrancisco.
You ask "Why would anyone take a management position when their subordinates earn two or three times what they do?"
What is stopping them from being a dealer?
Let the supervisors accept tips and split them up between the other supervisors.
And to the guy from Canada, Do you know the difference between a canoe and a Canadian?
A canoe tips once in a while.
That said, you should know that dealers earn what they make, when times are bad they make less, managers make just as much if it is slow or busy.
I hear that Wynns next move is to make customers pay for drinks...
Wynn understands that management gives customer service too and should be compensated via a share of the tips. It's only fair.
...he has a lot of nerve telling people who should get their money......he has lost his way since his divorce or he is going through his changes... whatever... he has run a muck......he is not worth it......
What many of you people, who have never served a drink in your life, don't understand, is this. When there is a cba, oh i'm sorry, let me spell that out for you, Collective Barganing Agrement, in place at a union hotel, which clearly states "that no person not covered by this agreement, ie. (managers, hosts/ufc fighter wanabe's,promoters, doormen),may share in ANY tips belonging to the employees. ie. (bartenders, waitress, bussers, serv assis), If they do, which is the case here, they are in violation of an agreement signed and agreed to by Mr.Wynn.
I like the idea of pulling tips and sharing some with the floor supervisor. I work in a casino, I was a dealer at 1 point, and a full time supervisor, now i am currently a dual-rate. I do both. The supervisor actually does a lot of work for the dealers. If the dealers are unhappy with this idea why don't they work at another casino that doesn't share tips with the floor? They won't because Wynn has one of the best income in vegas for dealers. I heard they were making over 60,000-80,000 a year as a dealer with share tips. That is great for a depressed economy where cost of living is 3-4x less then other places.
When dealers are hired, I am sure they are told they must share tips with management. If they are unhappy then don't apply there. With the economy in Las Vegas, you should just be happy to have a job, with an unemployment rate of what 15%???
Get over it, If you are so unhappy go work at a Station Resort where I hear they are making 10.00 an hr in tip rate.. I play at the Wynn a lot and I tip pretty well but reading how unhappy the dealers are makes me not want to tip them.
Sorry I know my comments has no interest with the above story, but I agree with court system, and I believe other casino will follow in Mr. Wynn's tip sharing. It cut's cost for the casino. Make an incentive for the supervisor's to provide better customer service. I have played at the Wynn and at Aria. The floor's at Aria are RUDE. Wynn seem to be more pleasant.
No, that is completely incorrect whatsoever! The floor people in most casinos are weak, and do not speak to any customers 95% of the time! Do yourself a huge favor, and walk through any casino around 10PM. Take a look, and then tell me if the floor people are talking to other floor people in the pit. Are the players cursing at the floor people? Are the players blowing smoke in the floor person's faces? NO is the answer! The dealer has to stay in one spot all night, and get abused by the no class customers that Vegas has to offer. The floor people say to the dealers, "I get to walk away from the customers, and YOU have to take all of their sh@t all night long." Now ask yourself one question? Do floor people deserve to share tips with the dealers? What a joke this town has turned into!
The floor does more work then you think they do. Did you forget to note that dealers get a break every 1hr or 1hr 20min? As the floor get's one every 2 maybe 3 hours? Yes the dealers are standing in one spot every 1hr. But they just deal cards. If there is an upset customer then the floor comes in and handles the situation. They do not just walk about from the customer. Maybe it's like that at some low class joint in vegas but I never see those while playing at the Wynn and Encore.
A tip pool in a restaurant and nightclub has been in existence for ever.
What's not written in any of the comments above is the amount of money that managers and VIP Host contribute to the Tip Pool. That's right, they contribute a large portion.
Many customers leave an additional tip to thier host contact on the server check.
This is not a case of a manager sitting in an office and taking a slice of the tip pool.
The difference between high performing and a high earning club is an entire team of professional managers, hosts and service staff. Why in the world would anyone suggest that they not pool and share?
you guys are nuts and have no idea what you are talking about! i dont work at wynn but i know at other nightclubs wait staff are giving 40% of there tips to tip outs of other employees.
this is just getting to carried away trust me when i say that mangment esp in nightclubs are not hurting for money in anyway they have other bounes and sales insentives and are making great money just look at cy who was datting paris he was taking empolyee tips on top of everything else he could get his hands on.
steve wynn is going crazy if you wanna change the system make a no tipping policy in your hotel pay your employees what you see fit and charge your guests that rate.
i am tired of having steve wynn tell me how much i can make and how i have to give my hard earned money to other people.
you know people are just not giving money way we go into work put on that smile and talk and interact all while doing our jobs just trying to make a living and for managment to say hey give me your money is just nuts.
we are not mangers we dont have the perks of managers either!!
and bellevillecanada the dealers you are looking at the four queens are making 20 to 70 bucks a day in tips there supervisor is making more dont worry those stiffs are only upset becuse they have to work 2 jobs to make a living and have people telling them hey you make to much you should give 20 or 30 % to your mangers.
i dont tell you how you should get paid please keep your nose on how i make a living.
we work for TIPS our sallary is nothing!!!!!! wanna change it pay us a fair wage and tell us we cant take tips then nobody would complain cuse we know what we are making
and for the people saying managment gives customer service too next time you have a managment that gives you customer service tip them!
dont tell me i have to tip out sombody you think should get tipped you wanna tip him by all means go ahead but leave my tips alone.
Ohhh wooooowwwwww! Floor people have to handle maybe one upset customer a night, and the results are always in the houses' favor. How about the 100 customers a dealer serves a night? I will take a break every 2-3 hours over face to face combat with customers on a daily basis! Oh, and by the way, Wynn/Encore floor people, and dealers are horrible at what they do! About 85% of these people do not have a college degree, and if they do it is in Philosophy! The floor people hate the dealers, and the dealers hate the floor! What a great joint to work at!
Steve Wynn had a chance to be one of the most respected figures in Las Vegas, Instead he continues to beat up on the little guy. sorry no streets named after you.
I've heard of tip-out going to kitchen staff, hostesses, dishwashers, runners, etc. In other words, lower paid staff not directly "serving" the customers, but providing service. The place I am aware of waiters give 4% of the total bill to tip-out. But I also know of one manager who was quickly fired from there (a very nice club) for dipping into the tip-out pool. I guess we would have to know the salary of a manager to really get an idea of the validity their opinion. Also, the days of fat tips are mostly over, just ask any waiter or waitress who has been in the business 5 years or more. People are more tight with their tip money these days. I actually find myself sometimes quietly sneaking a few bucks to the waitress if I'm with a business associate who is buying that day, but I know is a cheap tipper.
i love this idea that becuse they bring in the biz then they should get part of the tips? when they bring in the biz should we get part of the profits?
Managers have diffrent packages all together and in many clubs still given a small amount to the tip out points but to keep demanding more esp since tips are down is crazy
i am sorry i think that to be in this convo you should have to have worked for tips and manage employees who have worked for tip (i have done both)
when the property has a great year i dont walk in say hey steve your moving up on the richest people alive list how about sharing some? its his company he gets the profits and the losses but the tips i get when working are mine!
Or pay me a fair wage and not the state min. you took the 401k match cut medical benfits lowered vacation time wont hire any full time workers you only hire part time and yet people are still defening him!
BD 520,
If memory serves, the reason Wynn Casino implemented the tip pooling between the pit management and the dealers was they were having difficulty finding qualified individuals to accept a "promotion" to floor supervisor.
A floor supervisor in the pit is a unique management position. It requires intimate knowledge of the craft they are supervising, and most, if not all, who take on this position have experience as a dealer at some point.
A dealer at Wynn earns somewhere between 70K and 90K a year. A floor supervisor probably makes around 45K, so it becomes obvious why there is an issue with finding qualified floor supervisors given the financial disparity.
You ask, why not just be a dealer? A great point, and the reason why Wynn is challenging the system.
A contrarian would suggest; why doesn't Wynn just pay their floor supervisors more? Certainly, a fair point.
Increasing management salary would be the easy fix, but Wynn doesn't want to add an additional 300K, or whatever the figure might be, to it's bottom line. It benefits the casino to increase managements pay through tokes, not payroll. Which leads us back to the initial problem. Dealers are angry.
This is a tricky issue. I fully believe middle management should be compensated far better in Las Vegas than they currently are. I understand why the dealers are frustrated; if I were a dealer, I would be as well. It will be interesting how this eventually plays out in court.
Its very easy. If you want to make the money the bartenders make, LEARN HOW TO BARTEND! If you want to make the same money the dealers make, BECOME A DEALER! You suits chose your line of work and signed that contract the day you were hired. You all knew what you were getting into and how much your salary was!
As a rep. for the electrical workers for 20years this suit would appear to have merit.All terms of compensation should be spelled out clearly in the labor agreement.I do not understand why a lawsuit instead of the grievance procedure is being used.Perhaps they do not have binding arbitration language.Best wishes to all.Love your fine city and will return soon.
W/I many, many professional selling environments, it is well known & an accepted fact, whether most or some of you realize it or not, that many better SALESPEOPLE OUT EARN their SALES MANAGERS.
This is NOT based solely on my own knowledge & experience. It is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE to believe otherwise. Each will make a Managers job easier, with less anxiety, & more stable in the grand scheme of things.
Besides knowing this from experience on Wall Street, auto sales, & in advertising before I took over two magazines w/ my own successful plan @ reinventing a broader Identity, better targeting, distribution & distribution network that worked at increasing overall revenue to increase what I lost, but regained on the overall in Bonuses Money like many managers get in most industries for departmental gains and ideas.
TIPS vary & are closely tied to each individual's personality, the genuine smile, interest, appreciated positive impression & demeanor & pleasant interaction w/ Customers/Guests/Gamers, including in the areas of table-side/front counter/Room Service, Concierges, Restaurant Service people, Hosts & Hostesses, Housekeepers, ETC., in Customers Oriented settings & others who make Customer contact of any and all kinds from the Penthouses to the basement.
It's each INDIVIDUAL that makes the difference in whether a customer has a pleasant experience that creates a Returnee or Referrals for Dining, Shows, Gaming, or Socializing. The Bar side manners, entertainment value, appreciated service, tact, proficiency, and all the many things that makes the difference in their positions is what creates TIPS.
It's ALL a type of Marketing & Sales for each. The better a Dealer, Server, Performer, or other worker is w/
their Svc. & interaction w/ Customers, dictates just how successful each may be TIPPED. Each employees INDIVIDUALS SUCCESS should NOT be IMPEDED UPON, DIMINISHED IN VALUE or STRIPPED FROM THEM.
Whether you're in Las Vegas, the Monte Carlo in Monaco, Macau, London, on Wall Street, D.C., LA, Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, it's the better and best of the best you want on your property. It's what drives employees personal motivation, feeling of their value, reduces turnover, maintains a higher degree moral which is tied to actual loyalty & integrity.
Although a business is a working machine of 1000's of people working in unison who make a property work, or work better for the business, it's the Individual who in the mind of each Tipper who gives a gratuity, that they do so with the only intent & reasons in their minds, is for each Individual they chose Pay-A-Tip, NOT any other 3rd Party whether they are present in the area or not or just said hello & smiled.
@those who feel the supervisors should not be making less than the dealers etal.... I AGREE - HOWEVER - let the money come from Wynn, not from the dealers etal. It's not their fault Wynn is too cheap to pay his management a fair/equitable salary. The dealers shouldn't have to make up the difference... that's for Wynn to tend to.
Wynn should stop stealing from the little guy. Maybe he should pay reduce the pay for his CEO by a few millions so he can pay his floor supervisors more. I'm sure that in this economy there won't be problem getting a replacement for either CEO of floor supervisor.
To answer ft575's comment, "that managers dont sit in the office all night, and then get a cut of the money". You are absolutly correct, they dont sit in the office all night, most of the time they aren't even on the property. Usually on vacation, parting w/ paris hilton, you name it. Would you believe that the night cy waits was arrested, he still got a cut of the pool, after spending all night in the clink? Well, he did. These managers spend more time trying to get into the pants of their young attractive waitstaff and bartenders, that they can hardly take their eyes off their phones, let alone make any managerial decisions. And also regarding the comment you made about managers and hosts contributing to the pool. Come on. Maybe, if it was put on a chx in addition to the normal tip, its turned over. But cash? You cant be that nieve, or can you. You must be one of the hosts' or managers' with one of those oversized knots in your tie cutting off circulation to your pea brain.
And ed3428, there is language in the cba, that states, no managers in pool, the grivance process was initated, and exausted, the language is binding, but neither side will bend. Hence the lawsuit.