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Klondike Sunset owner John Woodrum says he’s sure online gambling will be legalized, and he worries the effect on poor customers.
Saturday, Nov. 20, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Klondike Sunset Casino
Sun archives
- Legal Internet gambling may help big casino firms, hurt small ones (11-6-2010)
- Nevada gaming companies see potential flush online (8-2-2010)
- Online gambling is illegal, but betting sites’ logos often in Nevada casinos (7-13-2010)
- Online poker law in effect, but players still manage to bet (7-11-2010)
- Question evolving from legalization debate: How to tax online casinos? (5-24-2010)
- Lawmakers push to regulate, tax online gaming (5-19-2010)
- With aggressive push, Internet gambling again in play (2-9-2010)
- Why casinos in Nevada won’t go online (for now) (8-20-2009)
- Will Web poker bust spark fight or flight? (6-15-2009)
- Poker players swarm site seeking input on big issues (5-19-2009)
- Web betting is wedge for Big Gaming (11-25-2008)
- Bush administration moves on Internet gaming band (11-12-2008)
- Gaming’s new frontier (11-23-2007)
- Online gaming in the shadows (7-17-2007)
Compulsive gambling is a tricky topic in a town where casino operators are considered economic engines and icons of ingenuity instead of unsavory merchants muddying the water between entertainment and highway robbery.
This makes casino owner John Woodrum something of an enigma. He worries about those customers who can’t resist the slots’ siren call.
Woodrum, 72, owns the Klondike Sunset, a neighborhood casino that depends on repeat visits from nearby residents, including people, he says, who are perpetually broke.
“Nothing bothers me as much as seeing people lose more than they can afford,” he says. “I’ve told people, ‘Why don’t you just walk away and let it go for a while?’ ” But they don’t.
And so Woodrum is conflicted. He runs a casino but worries about his poor customers losing money. Does he feel so strongly about this that he’d close his business and retire? Well, no. Because even if he did, there are plenty of other casinos in town. And yet, he has seen plenty of lives ruined by gambling from his perspective — one that many big casino executives don’t have.
And now there’s a new threat to gamblers, he says: Internet gambling. No way, no how should that be allowed, he says.
Of course he would say that, right? Internet gambling would hurt his business by allowing his customers to stay home and gamble.
Woodrum understands that people may not believe his more altruistic motive in fighting Internet gambling.
His casino career began inauspiciously. He planned to drive through Nevada from California in 1963 but ran out of gas in a casino parking lot with a few dollars in his pocket. He never left, working in casinos and getting married. He ended up owning the Klondike at the southern end of the Strip — a budget casino known for its Western-themed exterior that was torn down in 2006 to make way for redevelopment. His 43-year marriage has beaten the odds in a demanding business known to strain marriages and close relationships, and he has accepted the slim profit margins that come with small casinos such as his.
But harder to accept is the knowledge that people have lost homes and relationships to gambling’s pull.
When Woodrum talks about “gamblers,” he isn’t referring to the majority of Americans who gamble occasionally or for recreation. He means those who “will gamble every penny they’ve got” and leave nothing for the next generation.
And now comes online gambling to tease them, including the millions of Americans who play online poker for money although it is considered an illegal activity.
Many casino operators think legalized online gambling is inevitable, if only because of a natural tendency to push for regulating activities that have grown acceptable and widespread.
Driving to a casino to gamble is one thing, Woodrum says. “Allowing it for people every minute of every day (at home) and you’ve got a whole different animal on your hands.”
Although Woodrum’s view on Internet gambling smacks of protectionism, especially coming from a small casino that can’t compete against the giants and their increasingly international brands, Las Vegas attorney Jeff Silver understands where he is coming from.
“Given the Harvard MBA types that are seemingly revered in the gaming industry, Woodrum is definitely ‘old school,’ ” said Silver, a former casino executive and member of the Gaming Control Board who rooted out mob influence before Wall Street invested in casinos. “Statistics and surveys aside, his understanding of the ‘gambler’ and what motivates him is very astute.”
Online gambling legislation isn’t expected to pass for at least the next two years.
Woodrum doesn’t know what will happen if and when Internet gambling is legalized and regulated, but he’s resigned that it’s coming.
And he suspects it will usher in a new era where Web casinos — unlike today’s popular, although black-market online poker rooms — will become as promoted as major retail chains.
“More people are going to lose more money,” he says. “The big companies think if people gamble on a computer, they’ll want to go to (Las Vegas). Maybe they’re right. On the other hand, if you lose on the Internet you might have less money to spend at the other place.”
And about his customers who can ill afford to gamble? “I think it’ll be a little too tough for people to handle.”
John Woodrum is a rare Casino owner who is telling it like it is.. Respect..
Some people simply cannot live in "Sin City." Those who cannot control a gambling problem and/or an alcohol addiction do not do well in a 24/7 environment such as "Lost Wages." They should consider Hawaii or Utah.
Isn't it amazing what you can learn by being on the floor verses being behind a big desk up in an ivory tower?
Shake my head when playing roulette with $100 and see person after person lose, go to cash machine, come back to table, lose, back to cash machine..rinse and repeat over and over.
You go into a casino hoping to win (I'd rather go with a mindset of hoping to win rather than expecting to lose) but if you have a brain in your head you realize the odds are stacked against you. These places weren't built on winners. I'm still amazed at the amounts people will play. $100-$200 per spin on roulette and they look like they couldn't put two nickels together.
This is the worst town in the world if you have any type of addiction.
mr. woodorum may have a heart but he sure needs to learn a little bit about maintaining a casino. machines are disappearing right and left. the place is filthy. the restaurant is uninviting. employees have disappeared. the place is dirty, dingy and moldy smelling. we used to go there because there was gaming value for locals. no more. there's not a lot left at klondike sunset to bring us back. not with nicer places like skyline, emerald, rainbow and fortune so nearby.
This guy is not "telling it like it is". His business would clearly suffer if online gaming were legalized, and he's not prepared to adapt. Can't believe the Sun would present it any other way. It's insulting that they think their readers would buy into this article.
Woodrum is a casino owner with a conscience, which is rare. I can tell you of people I know who have lost thier lifes savings,and are still gambling every day at The Rampart Casino which calls itself the locals casino as if they really care about locals. Every week they send out mailers inducing people to come in and win trinkets with a promise of big prizes in them only to go home broke.
"unsavory merchants muddying the water between entertainment and highway robbery."
One of the best descriptions of casino owners I have seen.
80-20 20% of the gamblers lose 80% of the money.
Casino owner? The guy owns a big bar. A "casino" has hotel rooms and other things to do than gambling. Sheesh...
The only people who benefit from internet gambling are the casinos and others that own the sites. If you believe that casinos create fiscal and economic benefits, here's why internet gambling is your worst enemy.
Internet gambling does not replicate the bricks and mortar aspects of casinos. Internet gambling, unlike casinos, do not create construction jobs or casino jobs; it does not create significant state and local tax revenues; and it does not engender tourism, hospitality and convention and meeting growth.
Internet gambling is a telemarketing operation at best, and with ever evolving technological growth, would soon eliminate many of the initial telemarketing jobs that are required for patrons to place bets.
If you want an example of internet gambling, think for a second about the impact of U.S. companies exporting jobs and manufacturing facilities to Third World nations. It is done to reduce costs, such as labor, health care and health and environmental regulations so as to fatten the profits of those American companies' owners and investors.
If you have a job in the casino industry; if your job depends on the influx of casino visitors to patronize your non-casino business; if you own a tourism, hospitality or related business; if you're an airline servicing LV; if you're any business that requires casino employees and casino visitors for its economic lifeblood, internet gambling in the U.S. is a death knell.
That said, you can be sure that the Republicans, who have exported our nation's jobs and manufacturing sectors, will embrace internet gambling. Money talks --- and the casino owners talk loudly to their Republican friends in the Congress.
TomD - The guy who looks like he doesn't have 2 nickles is the guy with $20k in his piocket .
$100-$200 bets are all relative .ever see shape of the people on a $5 roulete table ... no thanks
matty2, you do realize that Barney Frank is the one proposing the internet gaming bill, right? And many republicans are opposed?
I think LV and NV need to get away from the same old brick and mortar casino industry. Internet gaming allows us to focus on our core competency, while slightly diversifying and bringing in different types of technical jobs, not just construction and service. Of course, the bigger impact is the tax revenue.
ImproveLV
If you think the internet casinos will be based in Nevada you are delusional.
Of coarse he does. Keeps his profits down. To bad. Part of the problem with Las Vegas is there is no business diversity. If it doesn't make the casinos happy, the citizens of Las Vegas can't do it. That's also why there is no lottery in Nevada. Now that fewer people are coming to town to gamble the local economy falls apart. Mr. Woodrum doesn't care about if local people spend what they don't have. He just wants them to do it in his casino.
Dave says: "The guy owns a big bar. A "casino" has hotel rooms and other things to do than gambling. "
He owns a casino, RESORTS have hotels and other things to do besides GAMBLING. Casinos are for GAMBLING.
On line gaming is here to stay. The U.S. needs to find a way to make it legit and tax it as they do most everything else. Right now U.S. taxpayers are spending BILLIONS that is going out of the country with on line gaming.
Mr. Woodrum, there are those that respect your opinion opposing regulated Internet gaming.
Will you in-turn afford others the same respect by supporting their choices in accessing gaming markets that offer the conveniences, privacies, propositions, odds and payouts you can't provide them -- thus, alleviating yourself from the "worries" surrounding their "real problems" with patronizing you?
Thanks for understand.
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Face it. A corporation like Harrah's is licking their chops for legalized internet gaming. Millions of suckers can be accessed with very little overhead/physical plant costs.
Think about it. Harrah's manages, I don't know, maybe 15,000 hotel rooms in Vegas, and maybe 50,000 throughout their brand. At two people per room, they have direct access to maybe 100,000 gamblers per day (not counting walk-ins). That's not bad, but then factor in the labor/management/plant costs, and it doesn't look as good.
How many gamblers own computers with internet access? Million$, baby, million$. Soon to be billion$.
Right, because it's much better for me to gamble in his smoky "casino," increase my risk of getting lung cancer and of being robbed, take my chances with idiot DUI drivers at night, and stay away from my family than it is for me to logon to an online site in a smoke-free environment with good food, stay away from idiot drivers, not get robbed and, even if they're sleeping, tend to my kids at a moment's notice if they wake up at night.
Brick & mortar Casinos might be going the same way as the open outcry commodity pits that used to trade pork bellies. With computers & legalized gambling online-there's eventually gonna be a lot less need for a standing Casinos-including the sportsbook.
Never really been to the Klondike but drove by there many times. Must check it out next time to find out if it's true that they have very good dining specials for low cost customers. I am sure they get quite a few Sahara customers checking out the neighborhood....
After they closed the Holly Cow Casino the Klondike probably got some extra market share.
From Switzerland
What a load of crapola. He spent more than 45-years enjoying the casino profits and his only real concern is losing the little business her had left to online gamgling. Didn't hear him speaking up for problem gamblers before the recession hit his locals business. He cares about the poor but won't close his own business because someone else would get his customers. Wow, that's a real humanitarian.
Maybe if guys like him were running LV that piece of junk City Center would never have been built.
He's just worried that the online gamblers will be home online instead of at his dump. We don't need a nanny state - people earn money, people spend money - anyway they choose. Don't need big brother looking out for me - I can take care of myself.
Funny, a guy who runs the worst casino on the Boulder Strip worrying about his customers. The one time I went in there, there was no ventilation, the place stunk of cigarette smoke-it was hard to see due to the haze, a place filled with white trash. Utterly disgusting. He has the dregs of society in his place attracted by $1.99 spaghetti dinner coupons.
Yeh, he's really worried. About losing his exclusive clientele.
nednouget, you are talking aobut Boulder Station, but this article is about the Klondike.
Nednougat your pre-judgement of people is disturbing. If people wish to smoke when they gamble and are attracted by $1.99 dinner coupons then who are you to judge them as "White Trash?"
I do not smoke and never have. I like staying at "The Bellagio" when in Vegas but that does not make me a better human being than anyone else.
tvegas, I just noticed your comment. What's being discussed/negotiated is that certain states can opt-in to licensing internet gaming. we have an extremely high concentration of experts in gaming. If they want to get licensed, the proposal is that they would have to have the operations/servers/etc. located in the state. I think the politicians are going to push for more than just keeping a server here, they'd have to have the majority of their operations/employees located in the state. Of course, that also means they'd have to pay taxes in that state.
Why do you think I'm "delusional" for thinking that? What's the justification for your comment?
I think some Vegas based land line casinos are already operating somewhat with internet betting, such as ipod apps for sports wagers. Station Casinos and the M seem to have something going on in this regard.
Anyway, I don't really think that any new changes will have a big impact on live gaming, as brick and mortal casinos are still different from this online world.
From switezrland
I visit the Sunset Klondike each year on my Vegas week long pilgrimage, and it's a very unique place. I usually only stay for an hour or two, but it is throwback. They have $2 blackjack and $2 roullete tables with 10 cent chips. You get reasonably priced drinks and great food deals. The price you pay is the fact that the tables are stained and burned, the restaurant is the size of a large closet and when the shifts are over from the garbage transfer station nearby, there are somewhat smelly patrons next to you. I don't care about any of that stuff, this is a fun place with nice people working in it. It must be hard for this place to survive with all the upscale competetion, but sometimes you just want gamble cheaply and have a couple of drinks and this place fits the bill perfectly. John Woodram is a modern day hero in the city of mega resorts always tetering on bankruptcy. I hope he keeps the Klondike going for many years to come.
Boris, it's not "switezrland". I will admit that Arizona Charlies has worse clientele-try sitting at the bar after 4pm, and you will immediately have a new female friend. Who lives in the trailers near the place. Love Boulder Highway and all the unique people....
nodnougat
Thanks for reminding me . The funny typing was before I could check how to write my country correctly ....
Had I known that I could find a female friend at the Arizona Charlies on Boulder, I would have gone there. Will be back in April. Must check out that place. Hopefully they're not all complete trouble women looking for a walking wallet....Can you confirm that there's some quality lady available from time to time ? :D
From Switzerland
(matty) "you can be sure that the Republicans, who have exported our nation's jobs and manufacturing sectors, will embrace internet gambling. Money talks --- and the casino owners talk loudly to their Republican friends in the Congress."
You need to know who is for it and who is not, your comment is way off (and I wish it was not)
I am one of the biggest sponsors of online gambling, I have been investing in it for over 17 years. (gambling properties dot com)
It is the right thing to do to legalize it, we are losing out on $$$ to all the oversees companies.
WAKE UP!!!
People are playing anyways, lets do it with regulations.
There is a breakdown in logic here. To gamble on the internet you need an internet connection, a computer and a means of funding an account. These all take organized thought processes to accomplish, not to mention money. The problem-prone people I have known could not keep their basic phone service paid up, let alone pay for broadband cable to enable gambling on today's websites. Even if they go to an internet cafe and gamble there, they still need to fund the account. That means credit cards or a bank account, or obtaining a money order, again, things that take some time and organization, or at least an extra step. It is much more likely that the people John Woodrum is concerned about will continue to take whatever cash they happen to scrape together for the day and play at live establishments such as his.
Is this clown for real? I wonder how many lives have been changed because of visits to his casino. Maybe AA should open some liquer stores and bars.