Staffing shuffle would cut county Fire Department overtime
Thursday, May 20, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Rory Reid
Steve Smith
Tom Collins
Steve Sisolak
Sun archives
- Las Vegas, Clark County collaborate to limit firefighter overtime (4-27-2010)
- Fire union resists move to increase its ranks, reduce overtime costs (4-16-2010)
- Has fire union support become a campaign curse? (4-15-2010)
- County commissioner named in threat on Facebook (4-8-2010)
- County Commission beefs up security after Sisolak threatened (4-7-2010)
- ‘Boot drive’ OT for individual firefighters is unknown (4-4-2010)
- Practice of on-duty firefighters raising money for charity questioned (3-31-2010)
- Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
Clark County Commission Chairman Rory Reid will seek to immediately disband some infrequently used Fire Department heavy equipment teams, a move aimed at reducing the department’s ballooning overtime costs.
Reid wants to mothball the department’s mobile air unit, which hauls extra oxygen apparatus to fire scenes, and a water tender, a truck that transports water to locations without hydrants, freeing the staff who operate the equipment for other needs. The equipment could still be used “as needed.”
Neither piece of equipment is first out on fire or medical calls, so Reid said changing their status would not increase response times.
The idea, which sprung from cost-saving measures proposed by Fire Chief Steve Smith, will cut overtime $965,000 by allowing six engineers who are tied to the equipment 24 hours a day to work elsewhere.
“The county’s personnel costs are not sustainable,” said Reid, a Democratic candidate for governor. “This is the first of many steps that we need to take.”
The six engineers would be used to fill in for absent firefighters in any of 25 county fire stations. Typically, the county pays overtime, or 1 1/2-times a regular wage, to firefighters substituting for colleagues who miss shifts.
In the 2009 fiscal year, overtime for firefighters totaled $14.1 million, helping push the average firefighter pay and benefits package to $180,000.
In the current fiscal year, the county is on pace to pay $15 million in Fire Department overtime. Overtime costs for all other county departments total about $2.7 million.
The Fire Department’s overtime problem is compounded by the fact that it is understaffed by seven fire engineers. Another 20 engineers are eligible for retirement or promotion over the next 12 months.
The county announced in April that it wanted to start a new round of fire engineer exams, which would give rank-and-file firefighters the opportunity for promotion to engineer.
In response, the fire union threatened legal action. Union President Ryan Beaman, who is an engineer, pointed out that the union’s contract states engineer exams are only given every two years. Giving exams this year would violate the contract.
Reid was infuriated by Beaman’s response. Soon after, he held a news conference with Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman to announce city and county staff will work toward sharing some firefighting duties between the jurisdictions.
The goal this time is the same: free up firefighters who are staffing rarely used equipment so they can fill in for absent firefighters to cut overtime costs.
Reid’s move could provide a key test of the commission’s will to take on the firefighters, who have been widely viewed as politically powerful.
Contacted Wednesday, Beaman agreed with Reid that using the equipment “as needed” won’t affect response times. But he said it will affect the county’s ISO rating, which can affect insurance premiums for home and business owners.
“The county could end up saving taxpayers a couple of cents per day while costing property owners, especially business owners, much more when it comes to insurance premiums,” Beaman said.
Smith said that is highly doubtful. Clark County is a Class 2 department. For its ISO rating to be hurt, that rating would have to drop to Class 4, he said, and that’s not likely to happen because the department is “still using the equipment.”
Barring a commission vote, the proposal is scheduled to take effect May 26.
But if Reid’s proposal ends up on an upcoming commission meeting agenda, it will reveal how likely commissioners are to support more cost-saving measures.
Reid has a solid vote in Commissioner Steve Sisolak, an ardent critic of firefighter pay.
“I think it’s the first small step in a very, very long journey but I’m glad we’re going to do something,” Sisolak said. “It’s a long way from over.”
Surprisingly, another commissioner known for his affinity for the firefighters union, Tom Collins, likes Reid’s idea too.
“I think some of these trucks get about 200 miles a year and that’s some real, real low mileage,” he said. His pro-union stance, he added, does not get in the way of his desire to get the most out of county employees. “I want these guys to be productive.”
Smith, the fire department chief, and every other county department head submitted plans almost three weeks ago outlining 8 percent spending cuts.
None of those plans has been made public. But the Sun has reported that one version of the Fire Department plan includes working with Las Vegas to coordinate brownouts of neighboring fire stations. To make the brownouts work, Smith wants to triage the 120,000 ambulance calls the department receives each year, no longer answering minor calls, to free up ambulance time.
Smith has also suggested reducing overtime pay for battalion chiefs by operating with just two when one calls in sick. That would save $149,000 annually. He also suggests eliminating four administrative staff positions, saving $230,100 annually.
Reid’s plan comes a few days after the commission approved a $1.2 billion county budget.
That budget included none of the Fire Department’s 8 percent budget cut plans and made no guesses about how much the county might save in ongoing contract negotiations with the firefighters union.
After the budget vote, Reid promised the spending plan was only a work in progress and that more cuts would come.
“We have to make more cuts or 1,000 people could lose their jobs next year,” he said. “I leave in five months, and I want to leave the county in good fiscal shape when I do.”
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hey rory...
that's the best you got pal...
well...
that's PATHETIC...
are you the worst negotiator of all time???
and you want to be governor...
hee hee hee...
here's some advice son...
let steve handle this...
get the hell out of his way...
he is far better at it than you...
come to think of it...
is it too late for steve to run for governor???
and always remember this rory...
birdie ain't no right wing nut job...
birdie is a proud bleeding heart liberal...
and birdie knows these firemen are destroying the community because their salaries are OUTRAGEOUS...
so...
what are you gonna do rory???
save us a couple of cents per day???
PATHETIC!!!
lol....this is beyond comical. I just take one glimpse at Rory's picture....and giggle all day. What a clown.
does commissioner tom collins approve of firemen making 180k???
hmmm???
if so...
listen up boys and girls...
you must never vote for mr collins again...
never ever ever...
period...
end of story...
These are all great moves and they can find many more if they keep looking. Many mid level management positions have been created that do little or nothing. Just layers of supervision on a chart. I only ask why these issues were not taken years ago or prevented from being created. The Fire Department has wasted millions per year in unnecessary wages as Rory and the others kept sending them more and more money.
I love it! If they don't want to pay taxes to cover the fire protection, let them cry a river when their insurance premiums go up!
Exactly where do conservatives believe money to cover their way of life is going to come from? The sky?
Fewer visitors, residents, businesses, houses, casinos, bars, etc. Large numbers of empty businesses that owners would like to see burned down anyway.
Time to cut police and fire people by a good 50%. They are not needed anymore.
In the 2009 fiscal year, overtime for firefighters totaled $14.1 million, helping push the average firefighter pay and benefits package to $180,000. The KEY WORD IS AVERAGE..........This is TOALLY outragous.
i guess these guys just aren't skilled enough to keep costs down...
to protect the public pocket book...
to protect the citizens of clark county...
http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/depts/c...
except sisolak of course...
listen up wanna be politicians...
you want to win a seat on the commission...
just use this issue...
bingo...
you win...
these firemen salaries are OUTRAGEOUS...
run against any of these clowns on this issue...
and this issue alone...
you win...
it really is that damn simple...
period...
end of story...
Rory, you should have been addressing this years ago.
You supported firefighters pay and approved their contracts for years without objection.
Now that you are runnning for Governor and everyone is focused on their crazy pay, you look for ways to a few cents per day !!
You are showing your leadership.
Comment removed by moderator. Was off-topic.
>> Overtime bilking was allowed to go on for years --
>> The FD was allowed to structure duty and personnel rosters to MAXIMISE the overtime -
>> City budget peeps and Rory Reid stumble into the fray in the middle of the 9th inning to make some symbolic changes --(just before the elections).
Even a Mormon firefighter should be outraged at this shocking example of organized corruption!
Another LAME article by Joe aka Stevies puppet. First, if 6 personnel that are displacing overtime pay at time and a half, that is equal to 9 salaries. 9 x 180k does not equal even close to 965k. Second,"Reid wants to mothball the department's mobile air unit, which hauls extra oxygen apparatus to fire scenes". Oxygen apparatus? WTH is that Joe? As a scuba diver, my scuba BOTTLE is filled with air, because Joe, oxygen is FLAMMABLE! Lastly for now, and this is my biggest peeve about a supposed "news" piece. The point of writing an article for the public to read should not be that of your own opinion or political agenda (or in your case Joe, that of Sissilak), but to either offer a balanced article on the news and address concerns for the public. This article, along with every article that I've read from Joe, does neither. My first thoughts when I read this article was now that the fire season is here, and the real news says it's gonna be a busy fire season, how are they going to handle that without a water tender to take the water to our wildfire areas? What proof does Chief Smith have that insurance premiums won't go up other than opinion? We don't really care about your opinion Joe, or the fact that your wife left you for a firefighter so you wish to bash them at every turn. We care about our safety. How about doing some real reporting, or you and Sissilak just start your own paper. I got one subscriber for you, her name is Birdie.
Hey 1-true;
How about you do the math 9x180=$1.62M (that's Million for you). The article doesn't talk to every firefighter, but lays out a simple discussion about the insurance premium increase being unlikely, but that does not work for your agenda, so you attack. I would gladly pay another $50 a year in insurance to save millions in taxpayer waste. As for the wildfires, I believe the BLM handles most of them except for the few that occur along the Las Vegas Wash when you boys get a nice photo op.
But, you go ahead and attack the messenger because your time as the heroes is over and it's your own greed and hiding behind your union that is turning the public against your salaries that are ridiculously high. Simply put, the tax base cannot sustain your pay and it needs to change, but you go ahead and attack Joe. Overpaid and over-glorified firefighters are the problem, not a reporter who doesn't print how FF's are the only ones who can save us all.
let's brainstorm about some slogans that we can use to replace all of the commissioners...
except sisolak of course...
hmmm...
i'll start...
"vote for me for county commissioner, i just don't think firemen should make 180k"...
simple...
to the point...
a slam dunk winner...
bongo...
you win...
it really would be that damn simple...
anybody else have any slogans???
maybevegas, I did the math and that's the same # I got! Which, if I get my math right again, is a difference of 655k (that's thousand for you) than it should equal if they made 180k a year. Like I said, not even close.
So you believe the BLM handles them? Well, funny you should say that because I WORK for the BLM, and we handle only the fires that our on BLM land. Most of our land is to the north. So, the wetlands that burn every year is not us, nor is Red Rock Canyon which has burned twice in the last few years. So, I attack the messenger because I don't want his message, I want some NEWS. As for you, come back when you know what you're talking about.
hey rory...
here's a tip from birdie...
gratis...
you will win over far more votes by beating down these community destroying firemen...
than you will gain from the union by kissing their butts...
far more...
by a factor of 10...
minimum...
got that skippy...
you are welcome!!!
Comment removed by moderator. Contained personal attacks.
Hey Birdie,
Here's another slogan; "It doesn't pay to have the Firemen work a fundraiser....it costs".
I'm confused! It took these people this long to realize that we are spending way to much for these services. I got an idea. Put REAL businessmen or women in there places that know how to budget. I can't believe that they waited so long to identify the waste that was going on. By the way if the population of Vegas is on the decline how is it that the FF need to be more costly.
hey kaliscanner...
excellent slogan...
it's just so damn easy...
these incumbent commissioners are screwed...
period...
end of story...
Comment removed by moderator. Was off-topic.
to 1-true-taxpayer: First, just to be clear, wildfires are not tended by Clark County firefighters. Either volunteers or another agency would respond. And the Water Tender is still available for use if it is requested by the Incident Commander at the scene of the wild fire.
Second, the $965,000 is the amount of OVERTIME that the county would eliminate by having 6 firefighters placed into a roving rotation.
Thanks for the feedback.
One more clarification: The overtime that would be eliminated will be the overtime that these 6 engineers are able to eliminate by filling in for colleagues who don't show up for work. The number of shifts those 6 engineers could fill in totals about 720.
let the wild fires burn, and let rural people put out there own fires.
It seems like Reid is just pandering now for votes. Changing sides this late in the game, don't buy it.
Sisolak is on it again, saying this needs to be only the first small step in a very very long journey. Sisolak is the only one that seems to have any business sense, and any common sense.
The only ones who even attempt to justify the nonsense is ff and their families.
Keep up the good work Joe, the taxpaying public appreciates your reporting.
I am sure if you really wanted to do a nasty piece on ff you could simply run an article on all the nonsense that has gone on for the last few years in one article and get all the taxpayers screaming.
Instead, Joe is reporting for the taxpaying public who would like to see this place run with some efficiency instead of caving to unions.
@ unsilent_majority aka Steve Sisolak,
Your cheerleading for yourself is understandable, your support for Joe also, but the real question is what windmills will you tilt at to keep yourself and Joe in business after this. Maybe you should start requiring the Fire Chief to manage the FD, all the allegations are false unless addressed as a problem by the management staff with the responsibility to run the FD. See you in the "funny papers", the LV Sun.
Sorry hlpme, I am just a taxpayer that doesn't want to support 6 figure ff gaming the system in every way possible.
You are a 6 figure ff, and you want to keep what you are making and have it continue to increase.
Perhaps you need to understand that ff are not irreplaceable. ff are servants to the taxpayer.
Joe,
Thank you for the clarification. I understand about the overtime costs, and that was the basis of my comment so let me clarify.
-If 6 people will be filling in for what would have been overtime shifts at time and a half, then that is equal to 9 people (6x1.5).
-That amount of savings listed is $965,000
-If the average is $180,000 salary, that would mean the actual savings is $1.62M
Therefore, either the average salary is incorrect or the amount of savings is incorrect, no?
I would just like to see a more balanced article is all. As my name states I am a taxpayer also and don't want to see my dollars wasted, so when I constantly see only one side of the argument I feel the article is skewed.
My apologies for my comment being off topic above.
Oh my god, I've been a FF in Vegas for 10 years and have never made close to $180k. You people hear a number that suits you and listen to a moron like Birdie and away you go. Friggin investigate for yourself.
---------------
As for insurance premiums, it's the business that would get an insurance hike, so that difference or more would be past on to the consumer. So then you could blame the outrages price of your Levis on FF's too.
---------------
Just for clarification, 1-taxpayer is correct, we use good old air and not oxygen due to its' flammable properties, not a big deal but just so there is no confusion about that.
---------------
I heard a rumor today that Sisolak actually does participate in our little debates here, my guess is Birdie or unsilent. Although unsilent does seem to have a little more on the ball. By the way, this rumor was told to me by a FF who's wife's car was run off the road, and his babies were with her. Some of you people should be locked up. You know who you are.
Croc1, I would be willing to bet that for the year the average ff is making $120, with OT. Then there is another $60-$70 in insurance benefits, etc. that is where the $180k comes from. Which means if that is average, there are a bunch making more.
My stance on this as you know, is that ff are necessary. $75-$80k per year with OT is acceptable.
Insurance premium increases? They should be going down in that the property that the insurance covers is worth a lot less than it was two years ago. Lower value should result in lower insurance premiums.
FRM- they should be you would think. Mine have almost doubled over the last ten years.
Joe Schoenmann,
Why didn't you give more credit to Chief Smith for identifying these potential areas of savings? You make a brief mention that the idea was "proposed by Fire Chief Steve Smith", but then the rest of the article you spin the story to make it sound like Reid is the principal person responsible for the savings. Heck, if you're going to put a spin on who came up with the idea you might have at least said it was Sisolak's idea. The article is ladened with comments like "Rory Reid will seek", "Reid wants to mothball", "Reid's move", "Reid's proposal", "Reid's plan". In fact, wasn't it Chief Smith's proposal, and wasn't he (and all County Dept's) ordered to propose cost saving depatmental measures by the County Manager Virgina Valentine?
unsilent-
How do you come up with that figure? Apparently you believe that is what we are worth to our community. That would mean you think we should make $35k to $40k base salary? If my calculations are correct, that's ~12hr.
As much as I love my job, I go unplug drains at $35hr. and know I don't have to put up with your crapping, spitting, bleeding whining but everyday.
---------------
Lets see how many qualified people you get for that. A bunch of kids that live with mommy and daddy. Cool, put the lives of your loved ones in there hands. Careful what you wish for.
Croc1-
You are taking my figure and trying to apply it under the current situation you already have. I think the scheduling should be adjusted as well.
First let me say I would be for privatization, and I know you as a ff would give the reasons against it. However, if you knew you could get hired on and make more money if privatization went thru, you guys would be all for it. But running it like a real company would not allow for the outrageous pay.
Barring that, I do not think a city like Vegas would work with a volunteer department. Which brings us back to the current problem.
If you think 60-$65k per year, and maybe another 10-15k in OT is not sufficient, then perhaps you are not as reasonable as I thought you were.
If you think you (ff) are worth 6 figures to the community, you guys are the only ones that think that.
Your above post is exactly why my respect for AMR/MedicWest workers grows, because they are doing it because they love their job, and not for the money.
If you don't think $80k per year is sufficient, then perhaps these posters who say "fire them all"and replace them are correct. I am sure we could fill the department with plenty of qualified people who would take $80k per year. Instead we have ff who have become so used to their exorbitant pay they think they are entitled, and irreplaceable.
As for me, no I am not Sisolak, I just happen to agree with him. Its also nice to see someone not cowering down to the union, and instead seeing a problem and addressing it.
Just because ff think they should make 6 figures, doesn't mean the taxpayers do.
When you signed up to become a ff, you signed up to deal with my "crapping,spitting,bleeding whining but everyday". Sorry, thats the job, you are a servant to the taxpayer.
You need us more than we need you.
Sheesh, its not like there was a horrible MGM hotel fire or anything on the strip. Of course tourism would stay the same if another inferno happened.
Well lets see, overtime cut ,salaries drop, can you say ARSON? There will have to be a scenario created to justify the overtime so everything can return to status quo, lets just sit back and watch the show.
The real problem is that someone besides Sisolak needs to stand up and take the Firefighters to task. They are the only labor group that hasn't given anything back and are acting entitled like little kids. Why does Beaman have a different take on business owners and home owners insurance rising than the fire chief of the county? I know why because he is the President of the firefigheters union for the county. Have some balls county commissioners and if you can lay off every where else lay off some firefighters like the city of North Las Vegas did. Then see what Beaman has to say. How many fires a year do they fight. They respond mostly to medical calls and most of the transports are done by the ambulance service. Also why are firefighters any where being paid to complete insurance paperwork properly? I f you can't complete the job in all phases competently you shouldn't work there. I am sick of the entitled firefighters fire some and see how quick they will comein to line.
1-true taxpayer;
The BLM's land is not all up north, can you say Inspirada and Mountains Edge? Try to keep up here as you are not the only taxpayer on this forum. Of course the numbers quoted won't match up perfectly, but try to think outside of your 7 to 3:30 shift. Someone has to pay for the retirement and other benefits you and others receive. I don't begrudge you/them of that. But, when everyone else in the private sector is taking a pay cut, don't think you guys shouldn't also.
unsilent-
point taken. Right now your fire department is staffed with qualified people at $80k a year. For some reason we are being blamed for the OT. I'm sure you've heard that wasn't even our idea, and that is true. People take sick leave when they or a family member are sick for the most part. If you call in sick and are seen out and about screwing around you will be disciplined. That is the reality of it. There is no real "scamming" that is going on. I know it makes for a better story for the news and people here, but the rampant sick leave manipulation is just not true. With that said, I'm sure some people have called in sick when they weren't, almost everyone has done that occasionally. (Now I'll hear from the chosen few who have never called in sick a day in their life). But it's just not like it's made out to be. I would be happy with only my base salary, and believe it or not i would enjoy my time at home, you should see my "honey-do" list.
------------------
As far as privatization, I just can't stop thinking about 2 years ago when AMR was days from striking. And if the FD was downsized, we could not pick up the slack like last time. Maybe something like that could be worked out, but being private they can pretty much do what they want.
------------------
And you are right, I did know that crapping, spitting and bleeding was part of the job, and that's fine. It's the whining I didn't sign up for, and not the whining I hear on calls, that's legit. It's all the whining about how bad we are and we are "raping" the community when in reality, like it or not we are doing what every worker in this world does if they want to keep their job, what their bosses tell them to do.
There is a very simple solution to this mess. First, make FF an "exempt" position. Second negotiate a fair salary that is a true salary and reasonable retirement benefits.
The root of the current problem is that it is cheaper to pay overtime than it is to hire more staff. That is mainly due to how retirement benefits are calculated. Change that condition, and it is possible to hire more staff which raises the service level and at the same time reduce the total amount being paid.
The only people who will object to that are the ones who are going to rake in larger than normal retirement benefits under the current system.
Base pay for a FF1 and FF2 is about $60k/yr not counting benefits if I recall. That is for a 56hr week. Take a look at what the real average hours are, make slight adjustments if needed, and base the retirement contribution solely on the base salary without any consideration for hours worked.
Now the only extra cost associated with hiring more staff is the cost of training/equiping and the $950/mo/person paid to the union for medical insurance. The calculation is essentially a classic min/max formulation.
The hard part is going to be getting the union to give up OT and getting people on both sides to stop gaming the system. (and croc1, I do not mean to imply that everyone games the system, just that it does happen and when it does it harms everyone else.)
botfx.-
I like what you said. I believe the union will gladly give up OT if it is replaced with more FF's and not brownouts.