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Mayor Oscar Goodman jokes with reporters Thursday at the beginning of his weekly press conference at Las Vegas City Hall. Goodman said the city council wouldn’t go along with a tentative pact city negotiators had worked out with firefighters because the negotiated cuts weren’t deep enough.
By Dave Toplikar (contact) 
Published Thursday, May 13, 2010 | 12:03 p.m.
Updated Thursday, May 13, 2010 | 9:49 a.m.
Sun Coverage
- Mayor: Firefighters, city staff reach ‘agreement in principle’ (5-6-2010)
- Analyst: Don’t cut Las Vegas city jobs (5-5-2010)
- Mayor: City job losses could double earlier estimates (4-22-2010)
- Mayor: More mergers needed between Las Vegas, Clark County (4-29-2010)
- Mayor: City to move forward on employee job cuts (4-21-2010)
- Mayor: Time short for 141 Las Vegas city jobs to be saved (4-15-2010)
- Mayor: Some Las Vegas city jobs might have to be privatized (4-7-2010)
More than 200 Las Vegas city employees are expected to lose their jobs as a result of $80 million in budget cuts needed for the next fiscal year — but none of them will be firefighters, Mayor Oscar Goodman said today.
Goodman revealed that number this morning at his weekly press conference, telling reporters that firefighters weren't among those being hit by the latest round of cuts.
Also, on another matter, the mayor confirmed to reporters that the "agreement in principle" that firefighters had tentatively reached with city staff negotiators last week doesn't have the support of the city council.
The city had asked firefighters to cut their personnel budget by $8.8 million, but the tentative pact amounted to $4.7 million in concessions.
"The sense was that it just hasn't been enough," Goodman said.
The Las Vegas City Council will hold a budget hearing next Tuesday to talk formally about negotiations with firefighters and deal with Fiscal Year 2011, which begins July 1. The budget will have to be submitted to the state in June.
The city approved a tentative budget in March that would eliminate about 145 jobs as of June 12. At that time the mayor had asked all city employee groups to reopen their contracts and voluntarily take no cost-of-living, step or longevity increases next year, plus take an 8 percent cut in salary and benefits in order to save jobs.
The city has been having formal negotiations with the firefighters union, and the city has asked the other three collective bargaining groups to reopen their contracts.
Because none of the employee groups had agreed to do so by late April, the mayor had instructed the city staff to go ahead and make those 145 job cuts in the final version of the budget, plus whatever other job cuts might be necessary.
More job cuts were needed because the deficit had grown from $70 million to $80 million, he said.
Reminded today that he had said earlier that all jobs were being scrutinized, including firefighters, Goodman said "I did say everybody is. Everybody's at risk here."
However, "... based on the budget that's going to be presented to us (Tuesday), there will be no firefighters on that list," he said.
Asked which employees would be included in the additional 60-plus layoffs, Goodman said "across the board, basically."
Those city employees were to be notified today that they will lose their jobs on July 16, according to David Riggleman, the city's communications director.
"We want to make sure that the staff has the opportunity to hear this first," Riggleman said.
Those on the chopping block include members of the Las Vegas City Employees Association, appointive and executive employees, city marshals and corrections officers, Riggleman told reporters after the press conference.
Riggleman said that while firefighters' positions weren't being cut, they would be losing overtime pay because of $5 million reductions due to rotating "brownouts" of at least three fire units per day. The units might include a fire truck, a water tender, a rescue unit, etc.
Firefighters and city still in talks
Goodman said the city council met for a little more than two hours Wednesday, continuing a recessed special closed meeting, to hear about the tentative agreement in principle that had been reached by the firefighters union and city negotiators.
"We considered the proposal that was tendered to us by firefighters," he said. "It's probably the most generous of proposals that has been made in recent memory. But unfortunately, and I can't speak for my colleagues because we're not allowed to reach consensus, but the feeling was that in the face of the magnitude of the financial burdens that are on the city now, it just wasn't enough."
Goodman said that the council will take up the matter in public at Tuesday's budget hearing.
"We'll express our positions at that point in time," he said. "But if yesterday was a time we were supposed to accept or reject, we couldn't do that. All we could do was express individual feelings. And from that the city manager would have to draw whatever conclusions had to be drawn. But there will be a full public discussion of this when we have our budget hearing."
Asked if privatizing emergency medical services was still on the table, Goodman said the city would like to do a study on the financial pros and cons of privatization versus firefighters performing those services.
He also said that consolidation of firefighting services to save money were still being worked out between the city and county staffs. However, it would be consolidation of certain services, such as responding to reports of hazardous material, rather than of the entire departments, he said.
Goodman contacted about open negotiations
Goodman also confirmed today that he had spoken with Gov. Jim Gibbons about Gibbons' initiative to have all public employee union negotiation sessions in the state be held in public meetings.
"I spoke to the governor on two occasions," Goodman said. "He called me and I told him I can't get involved in that discussion at this point in time because we were -- and are -- in discussions with fire and I don't want to do anything which would impede those discussions."
He said he spoke to the city staff about what would happen if all the city's collective bargaining negotiations were open to the public.
"They felt, from their perspective -- I'm not sure if I agree or disagree at this stage -- that there would be posturing, grandstanding and the like, and the real purpose of it would be diminished as a result of perhaps people trying to showboat," Goodman said.
Goodman said he expressed those sentiments to the governor.
"He indicated that he realized that's one of the issues that would have to be addressed," Goodman said.
CORRECTION: The story has been corrected to reflect that fire units, rather than fire stations, would be browned out as a result of cost-cutting in the city's fire department. | (May 14, 2010)
Just do the job cuts and move on. Public employee can now join the real world.
the firefighters are gonna get you - all of your taxes and all of your jobs - they will save you from prosperity!
people are losing their jobs left and right...
and those community destroyers make 180k...
what the hell is wrong with the world!!!
oscar just ain't got it anymore!!!
fire our "heros"
Can the newly-out-of-place employees get employment helping to build the very-unnecessary $300 million city hall?
Bury your head in the sand and give them all raises.
Time for an all volunteer fire department....
I agree to isthis4real comment.
I Know Vegas is bigger than the town I grew up in, a suburb just outside Philadelphia, but we have about 45K people living in that community and even to this day there is still an all volunteer fire department, with 3 fire stations. The only person who does have a salary is the Fire Chief.
The Firemans union is a strong arm mafia organization..
I hope the cuts come in the building department. One of the most screwed up in the whole country.
When Johnny Q. Citizen, scrapes his knees because of a minor bout with a vehicle, look for a half million dollar fire truck with over-paid fire fighters and two ambulances. Nothing will change. No common sense. Just spend, spend, spend.
I say create a Volunteer Fire department that covers the sick and any overtime. These can be new recruits and help the department find the most worthy.
That way all firemen make their salary and no overtime and we keep fully trained people on staff. If the oldest don't like not being able to make OT they can retire early saving on them maxing out their pension which then saves the city. New replacement paid staff comes in with lower base salaries and benefits.
Their is a wait list of people wanting to become fireman, we should be able to fill the volunteer relief department and give them equipment and training in the money saved from not paying out overtime.
why negotiate at all--there are millions of people looking for work and will gladly take these positions for 50% less than these firefighters make now. Let all the "contracts" run out and then hire new people and start over. The firefighters union is a great example of the problems with the unions---no give when it is blatantly obvious to everyone the salaries and benefits are wwwwaaaayyyy out of control with the current economy. Also the amount of "cuts" is wwwwaaaayyyyy low. The local government needs drastic downsizing, not a hundred or so jobs--what a joke.
Yeah that's it spit on the firefighters. WOW LasVegas2009 what an IDIOT you are. That will solve everything. Oh and yes Im a city employee and its amazing how little all the negative posters on here know what really goes on in the city. Its funny, how poor the city is but the mayor is spending money on a company to study how private ems would work in the city. Thought we didnt have money but he always has enough for his little projects. Oh and the city manager just hired a consultant to help the city learn to run with a smaller work force. Now isnt that her job, to run the city. If we have less employees then her job should be easier, right? Oh and where did that money come from? Its amazing they can pull money out of their butts at the drop of a dime when they need it for stupid stuff, but oh yeah the city is broke.
Excellent choice, Big O. Basic police and fire protection services outweigh the services of 'non-essentials' anytime.
Look at this. Can you believe we even pay them for this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbw0AydkC...
nunya4
That was made by a private ems company worker here in Vegas. Are you saying they should not be paid?
You folks just keep voting in Democrats that put the UNION (first) and do what's right for all citizens (second). Think it over next time you vote. Every election it is about votes. Vote them out. I hope people finally will see what the cities and county commission have been doing to clark county residents for 20 plus years regarding public employees and firemen. Raising the pay not based on anything but votes. Great method for running our huge businesses called the City and County.
I think Oscar, my hero, is getting soft and caving in to the FF union and undermining the County Commisioners' negotiation with their FF. The 60+ city employees being laid off are part of those that voted to throw their junior coworkers under the bus, so now they can join them on the unemployment line. It would have been easier if they sacrificed a little pay cut so nobody gets axed but greed took over.
mike, does it really matter who made the video?
What's happening in Las Vegas it an example where the country is heading; UNION
Yes this article is about city employees not the privates. So what are you trying to say, they should not be paid for doing their job?
the fact that the negotiations are carried out in secret is the problem. there is no transparentcy. there's only one reason to do it in secret, its corrupt.
Layoff all those administrators... !!
I hope it has the power to layoff all the adiminstrators in CCSD!!! Wasting our tax dollars and getting away with myths and brainwasing!!!
Privatize and DEREGULATE the education system!!
I agree with Cyrus. You layoff all the high paid admins you would be saving a lot of money. This goes for all aspects of government. The school district for example is way to top heavy. Go into a school in June or August and just still how school admins are working.
Let me ask everyone something, if the city hired enough FF's to eliminate OT would that make everybody happy? $80,000 Base pay.
Don't hate unions; hate the people who have corrupted unions. In the right hands, a union can do a great service to employees and the community. In the wrong hands, a union can enrich the corrupt, hurt the community and give unions a bad name.
I am pro-union but I don't consider the firefighters as having a union. They have a mafia, as someone noted earlier.
For you lowlifes that did watch nunya4's video he provided and still want to complain, just remember if any of you have a near death situation and are saved by any of these heroes are you still going to complain?
I had a brain hemorrage back in '86. I was comatosed for a week and died 3 times in that week. 5 months later I ran into the heroes that came to my home and got me to the hospital. they had tears in their eyes. They could not believe I survived. I was a 2% that survived a brain hemorrage at that time. The doctors said that because of the quick response by the paramedics, I was saved from extensive brain damage, physical impairment or death.
These people aren't paid enough! Some of you fools suggest a volunteer oriented department. why does it take near death for some to understand? WAKE UP!
Fair should be just that, fair. Normally I don't begrudge someone who makes a ton of cash because they earned it... however. There is a case in the FD of one FF who makes so much that he works three days straight in LV and then takes 10 off to go home to Ohio!
Isn't there some sort of nonsense going on where this FF can do that? Hmmmmmmmmm?
you ppl just dont get it. you can't just replace firefighters with joe shmoe's at 50% the salary, there IS a skill and knowledge base to firefighters...
hey illusive...
we get it...
listen up skippy...
if reagan could replace air traffic controllers...
you sure as hell can replace people that hold hoses...
look...
no where in america today will some child walk into a guidance counsellors office and be told that he just is not talented enough to become a firemen...
NO WHERE!!!
you could replace them all in 2 weeks...
in this economy...
maybe a week and a half...
this is a terrible wrong...
the politicians must correct...
and if they don't...
birdie is gonna run on for office on this issue...
and this issue alone...
and destroy them...
IN A LANDSLIDE!!!
Oscar still lives back in the quaint old days when he was affiliated with the MOB...
"Pretty much, we don't negotiate. It's MY WAY, or the HIGHWAY. You don't like it? Fuggetaboutit!!!"
Mayor Goodfella.
It's ironic that a city built on GREED is having a FIT because somebody else has their hands in the cookie jar!
5% gets it done. C'mon, guys. It's time!
After november there will be a plan to raise taxes to pay for "services" because they have made all the cuts they possibly can. Some politician will come up with some "ponzi" plan to seperate you from your money. The problem is that it's taking money from one pocket and switching it to another. The house of cards will eventually fall under the weight of mismanagement.
Fremma:
I've read many of your past posts.
Thank goodness your brain damage was not "extensive"?
I have to agree with the first comment made by Smarterthanyou...
If you've lost your city job, thank a fireman.
Couldn't have said it better.
Here's another great video of what the fire department and EMS can do for you....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkq-MYmkw...
My God are all people in Nevada as stupid as the firefighter haters that I see on this site. You morons that think you can replace a professional fire department with volunteers in a city the size of Las Vegas really need to stop smoking crack. As to the "fire them all" idiots, grow up and change your tactics, this one is growing really tiresome. Unreal that some of you dimwits think that you can eliminate an essential service and replace it with Bubba from down the street and still expect to survive an emergency incident. Un frickin real the level of stupidity of some of the firefighter haters.
And thank God I don't live in your state, where I live we still respect and appreciate our firefighters.
@npbra,
Where do you live so all of us firehating, City of Las Vegas Taxpayers, can write to your newspaper and jump in a fight that has nothing to do with us???
@smarterthanyou,
Does this mean that the FF's are no longer 'Zeroes' but are now 'Heroes'???
Dave Toplikar,
Can you please let us know, what every other City Departments is willing to give up!
How can the Fire Department have that much of an impact? How much are all the other City Jobs giving up? How come we don't hear about the other departments? Why is it always the Firefighters? The Firefighters are willing to give up $4.7 million in concessions, although the City asked for
$8 Million. What was everyone else willing to give? The Fire Department was willing to give up a little over half what was asked. What have all the other City Departments gave up? Oscar wanted all City employees to give up 8% this year and 8% next year. NO ONE WAS WILLING TO DO THIS..NO ONE!
How much influence did the County Commissioners have with the decision?
The CCFD's unwillingness to accept a few concessions to save some jobs just demonstrates how selfish they truly are.
If the FF's union is THAT corrupt, then maybe it's time to clean house. We'll just have to wait until 'Mayor Goodfella' leaves office before it can be done.
I bet the most of you are old retired farts that have nothing better to do then bash on every story that is writen on this site. "smarterthanyou" and "birdiedreamin" are just two examples of a non-working half assed so called taxpayer who complains about EVERYTHING.
"environprotector"... Another fine example of a person who contributes to his community. Since October 9th, 2009 you have made over 2,400 rants, complaints, and negative post on this site. Can you honestly say your opinion means anything?
Silverstate,
We are discussing City of Las Vegas Firefighters, not The Clark County Firefighters!
Honestly, what is it you do as a career in Vegas? Are you retired? How long have you lived in Vegas? How old are you? Its funny how you anonymously post continued nonsense but have never revealed your basis of opinion.
I have to admit and give birdiedreamin some credit. When he first arrived with his posts they were the intelligent,"HO,HO,HO,HEE,HEE,HEE, HA,HA,HA, ETC,ETC,ETC,ETC,ETC,ETC! HIS ENGLISH CLASSES HAVE COME TO AID HIS COMMENTING ABILITY!
Now we have to help him with his memory, he now thinks everybodies name is skippy! I am however proud at the progress he's making.
You know that old saying,"Good things take a while"? We can't give up hope for this old bird.
Goodman is trying to fix the budget and I know nobody likes it.The fireman will be next to get layoffs its just a matter of time.If he does not layoff people we will end up like California owening Billions of $$$.That means taxing everthing everyone a lot more money that we cannot afford.
Our Mayor is looking at the future.
Keep up the good work Mayor.
thank god no firemen will lose their jobs so they can continue fleecing us here in clark county. see you at the gym, guys.
It still amazing to me that very little is said about all the money this city is still spending on frivolous expenditures. We are still getting a $50,000,000 mob museum. Also paying someone to teach our city manager how to run the city with a smaller staff. I'll say it again, "we are paying someone to come in and teach our city manager how to run this city". Doesn't anyone else think this is a slap in the face. They don't even try to hide it anymore.
No one answered my question earlier, If OT was eliminated in the FD, would a 10 yr. FF making $80,000 base pay sound fair to everyone?
If I was a fireman, Id get everyone to stay home for 2 weeks. You people are sickening, blame unions and workers for all our problems...never mind the 300 million dollar city hall that we are building. You people are so sickening, you have nothing to say except negative comments to the brave men and women who would save your ass if it needed saving. You have no idea what the life of a firefighter is like. You people only look at the world through your own selfish self indulged narrow minded eyes. I cant imagine what your poor children must be going through having uneducated nazi parents, get a clue
Bam1969,
First of all, we are talking about City firefighters! Second,If they are out of shape and fat, you would be upset. They work 24 to 72 hour shifts. How could they workout everyday, if not on duty?
The Fire Departments are all ready understaffed, and that is why some of them are making over 100k a year with all the overtime. You lay them firefighters off, and create more overtime. Firefighters will make more $$$, and you will have more to complain about. By them laying off people, it proves it's cheaper to pay overtime, than hire more personnel.
To nunya4- its obvious you are either a ff or living off of one. There is no need to come on here and bash anyone for voicing their opinions just because you disagree.
To croc1- Yes thats a slap in the face, but we feel what the ff are doing is also a slap in the face. So the way you feel about those things, we also feel about ff and what they are making.
Which leads me to the c onclusions that if you were not a ff you would be with us 100% on the issue.
TO croc1- I will answer your question, eliminate the bonuses, and no additional nonsense....but a ff regardless of rank or position, after 10 years making $80k is fair to me. After 20 years of solid service with an unblemished record, 100k is fine with me.
However, this does not mean adding titles, like captains or chiefs and getting higher grades of pay.
NOBODY, under any circumstance in the fd should be making $150K, 200K, $400k.....no matter how you try and spin it is crazy.
Where is the money being wasted? Not on the employees, there could have been another way to balance the budget. Health and safety will suffer.
unsilent_majority you should do exactly that!
How many calls do the city FF's respond to daily? How many of these calls "really" need an ambulance, fire truck and a half dozen police cars? How much of the 24hr shift is spent either cooking, cleaning or sleeping?
I am glad I live in America, and we get paid an hour wage for our hard work. I have always been upset with the fact that firefighters have to work over 56 hours a week before than can occur overtime, while everyone else this country gets overtime after their 40 hours a week. When firefighters with ten years on the job were making $75k-$85k a year for working 240 hours a month, no one complained. You didn't hear the firefighters cry that they were away from their families 80 hours more a month than the average person, working 40 hours a week. Think about this; Does two weeks at work seem like a long time? Thats how much more time a firefighter is away from their families every month, not including overtime. Now, the City and County understaff the departments because it saves them money! It saves a lot of money making firefighters work overtime, and not paying for insurance, retirement, clothing, training of new employees. Overtime does not go to fire fighters retirement. The City and County could have hired enough firefighters to stop all overtime, but they haven't. Ten years ago a fire fighter might have been able to work one day of overtime every four months, and firefighters didn't make over $100k.
unsilent_majority- If we totally eliminated OT, you understand that your taxes would not go down any, in fact that money would stay with the FD to pay for the extra bodies. So basically what your saying is you don't really care about the amount of your taxes, you just don't want a FF making over $75k - $85k.
This is not directed just at unsilent_majority, everyone that is upset about FF pay.
--------------------
As far as rank, every promotion in rank comes with a significant increase in responsibility, meaning making sure the crew you are leading goes home safe.
flapsychdoc,
The CCFD responds to about 120,000 emergencies a year. 120,000/365 = 328 calls a day. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I believe LV Fire & Rescue runs about the same.
To answer your question about how many "really" need an ambulance, fire truck, 6 police cars, etc?... We don't know.
The 911 dispatch operators answer the calls and try to ascertain to the best of their ability the nature of an emergency. Based on whatever, if any, information they can gather they utilize a standard response formula that tells them exactly how many and what type of resources to respond. Is this an auto accident? how many cars involved? how many potential patients? could the cars potentially catch fire? is there any need to use the laws of life? Are the patients out of their vehicles and walking around? Do we need to launch the flight-for-life helicopter? Is the patient(s) pinned between the steering wheel and the gas pedal? Are they stable? are they clinging to life?... We just don't know. More often than not, the information that is provided to the 911 dispatch center doesn't truly match the emergency. An emergency request might have information saying something like "white male adult, passed out once, no further information"... sounds simple enough, but when you get there he's actually unconscious, unresponsive, not breathing, heart stopped".. Other times, the patient might not even be there when you get to the reported area... You just never know.
The bottom line is this... Based on past experience, post-incident evaluation, industry experts, etc., the 911 dispatch operators send only the resources necessary for a given emergency. Some emergencies require one resource, some require 20.
For anyone interested,
Now's your chance...
The County has posted a job announcement for a Firefighter/Paramedic I.
The posting closes on 5/25.
The job posting is located at the following address...
http://agency.governmentjobs.com/clarkco...
I encourage you to apply. We need more firefighters. More firefighters means less OT. Good luck.
They have so good, take the test!
I am sorry to inform you that you will need your degree, or certificate in Paramedicine. This will only take you a year and half to obtain, or two years if you want the Associate Degree.
NO BACKBONE !!!! absolutely NO BACKBONE !!!
Fire them all and start over, Yeah.
I nominate Birdiedreamin for Fire Chief because he has the answers to fix the problem. What do you need time wise to get up to speed on your job requirements? One week enough, there's no hose involved so it should take that long. It only requires a HS education.
I also nominate unsilent_majority as Assistant Chief. With the two of you leading the charge it should only take a few days to get things under control.
Now that you've fired everyone, who will train the new firemen? I know, lets follow the $180k a year plus bonuses City Managers example and hire someone to do our job. She's too busy counting her money to run a city. Consultants are the only way to go.
Firemen are the reason the city is going to pot. The firemen wrote their contract with the city and approved it without the city counsel voting on it. Fire them all and start over! The firemen are trying to keep a particular bond rating so they can build a new City Hall. Fire them all! The firemen are hiding money in the budget so the bottom line looks worse than it is. Fire them all!
When the Mayor asked for 8% pay cuts to save jobs, we asked if he would guarantee the pay cut would save jobs. How do you think the mayor answered? There is more to the story than what the papers are printing.
This is a case of the team with the better PR firm is winning and you suckers are taking the bait. Be intelligent and do you homework before you posting. There is always two sides to every story and the truth falls somewhere in between. You guys/gals are missing the boat in this one.
I just read in the RJ that sticking cheese up your butt makes you immune to all disease and gives you the ability to fly like superman. Birdiedreamin, did it work?
I'm amazed how people try and justify the outrageous pay of firefighters with youtube videos and stories of how their life was saved by a firefighter. News flash... your life was saved by a "paramedic" who happens to be paid like a firefighter. Private paramedics save lives just as often if not more often than firefighters and make nowhere near what firefighters make. Is the life saving event worth more because the hero paramedic/EMT was a government employee? We have nurses and medical staff that are heroes everyday too... Shouldn't we pay them all the same as firefighters?
Give me a break! Firefighters do a great job and a very important one, but common sense has to prevail. We can't just pay them outrageous salaries and allow it to keep growing. No common sense and accountability is how we got into this mess. Just accept the fact that the gravy train is over and move on. If not, I say lay them off and let the chips fall.
Yes, lay them off. Who fills the seats that are now vacant? You've just created more overtime. You're a genius!
No doubt during their free time firemen watch DVD's of The Sopranos, The Godfather, Goodfellas, The Untouchables (1960's show with Robert Stack), and The St.Valentine's Day Massacre. Some of those guys who extort money on the Untouchables are pretty scary although perhaps not as scary as Sallie Mae or not as persistent as LV firemen. But there's no free lunch, even for firemen. If they send their kids to UNLV or UCLA they might be a little shocked at the tuition (colleges are pretty crooked too--go to pbs.org and watch the Frontline show "College Inc.") They shouldn't be--if firemen won't give up some of their pay the state will have to make budget cuts somewhere else--like education.
jfdiguy,
Maybe their life wasn't saved by a Paramedic at all. Maybe it was a EMT-Basic. Or maybe it was a soccer coach passing by that happened to have CPR training, or a school nurse, etc. etc. Don't make it about the job title. What matters most is that a life was saved. I've never heard anyone on the fire department refer to themselves as a hero. Being classified as a hero is subjective. Sometimes it's a parent, sometimes a teacher or a counselor, the military, a good samaritan, a firefighter or a police officer, even a private agency paramedic or emt, etc. etc. Nobody who decides to do something to help someone else and put themselves in harms way while doing it does it to be called a hero. We do it to make a difference. period.
Private agency paramedics (AMR/Medicwest) and Fire Dept paramedics are all required to be nationally registered/certified per the SN Health District. Yes, private agency medics are paid far less, but Fire Department Medics are also required to have knowledge in fire suppression, automobile extrication, haz-mat operations, swift water rescue, gas leaks/spills, elevator rescues, aircraft emergencies, high-rise fires, etc. etc.
I'm not trying to diminish what private agency medics do or know. There are many superb private agency medics, but in the end, they have less responsibilities than their counterparts on the fire department. Should the fire department firefighter/paramedics be paid more for their additional responsibilities?
Here's some facts about wages...
Hourly rate for a CCFD Firefighter is $17.65/hour
Hourly rate for a CCFD Engineer is $28.38/hour
Hourly rate for a CCFD Captain is $31.92/hour
Hourly rate for a Republic Services Residential Driver is $22/hour
Hourly rate for a CCSD Teacher is $27.24/hour
Hourly rate for a CCSD Teacher with 5 years experience is $31.79/hour
Hourly rate for a LVMPD Police Officer II is $29.36/hour
Hourly rate for a LVMPD Police Sergeant is $36.71/hour
Teachers start out making $10/hour more than FFs.
Garbage truck drives make $4.5 more/hour.
Nurses? Cops? Plumbers? Electricians? etc. etc.
FF salaries are generally considered fair by most. The total compensation is what some people disagree with. The total compensation of some FFs is due to OT, sometimes OT is voluntary, sometimes it's forced under threat of penalty (including termination).
If you want to reduce FF total compensation it's simple... Hire more firefighters.
You all have nasty things to say about the fire department so if your house is burning or you need an ambulance don't call the fire department call your neighbor or use your garden hose.
Buddy, you da man!
A lot of posts on here are about taxpayers paying outrageous FF salaries due to OT. If you hire more FF's the OT will go away, but your taxes will not be less. So it comes down to some people just don't like one person making what they believe is too much money.
---------------
ex: 1 FF makes $ 150k with OT = $150k
3 FF makes $80k without OT = $240k.
People would be happier to pay the $240k.
Emotion overriding intellect.
Buddy, Lets see Birdie, enviro, and smarterthan respond to that. My guess is they wont. Facts are facts.
Croc, your statement could be more true..."Emotion overriding intellect".
Baja_joe, who took away your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms?
"As for dealing with the Police Cartel - that's easy, give me back my 2nd Amendment right to bear arms - Done."
So, if you had a gun you would kill cops? Is that your solution for DEALING with them?
You know, if the FF union wants to vindicate themselves so badly, I'd recommend they submit to an audit of the departments. If they respond to calls they weren't summoned for, use the OFFICIAL government-owned vehicles for unofficial business like trips to the gym, grocery store, or other questionable activities, it'll all come out in the wash.
If there is no genuine paper trail to justify the OT and the excessive budgets, then adjust it accordingly and penalize the supervisors who knowingly allowed these discrepencies to occur.
Here we have a city full of undereducated children, and yet the education cuts continue. Be advised, the next FF who comes to put out the fire in your house ten years from now just may be a product of that same education system Jim Gibbons has so gleefully cut during his time in office.
FF's don't seem to understand that the city IS burning down--financially. Look what's happening to Greece. Check out the debt clock--US unfunded liabilities total $350K per citizen. That's worse than any fire. Check out what's going on in Calif. The governor is instituting some truly draconian cuts to social programs for the disabled and elderly because we're running out of money. FF's supposedly don't call themselves heroes. That's good because they're VILLAINS.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?sectio...
Baja, you are the epitome of ignorance. You know nothing, plain and simple. You talk about this subject like you're discussing the weather. You make NO sense at all.
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manfromuncle---
The city is burning down, yes. Is it FF's fault $300,000,000 are being spent on a city hall we don't need?
Is it FF's fault that we are spending $45,000,000 to completely furnish the new city hall? (No old furniture for us).
Is it FF's fault we are spending $30,000,000 on a mob museum, even thought the Tropicana already stated would have one?
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You whine about the money we make that we work for, but you could care less about the money your Mayor is throwing out the door. How dumb do you sound?
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No mob museum and no furniture ------ no layoffs. It's that simple.
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On top of all that, what about the money for FD from the bond issue that was voted in by you a few years ago, it was to take care of our salaries for the next 10 - 20 years? It was conveniently moved into the general fund. Also, what about the 16% held over from last year by the city. Only 8% or 9% was recommended?
There is money.
manfromuncle1,
FFs do understand that these are financially difficulty times. Let's skip the debate on global economics and focus on the situation locally. Here's some facts to consider...
The County's budget is $6.4 billion dollars. The CCFD budget for the same time frame, including salaries/wages, benefits, services, supplies & capital outlay is $137 million dollars.
That's right, the CCFD budget represents about 2 percent of the total budget. 2 PERCENT.
Meanwhile the County and the City are spending tens and hundreds of millions on new projects: community pools, shooting parks, mob museum, city hall, etc. etc. If our local governments wanted to save money in order to save jobs, they could do it without layoffs.
But back to my first statement, FFs do understand, that's why the LVF&R and NLVFD have had multiple agreements on the table. Some have even had verbal acceptance of their agreements, only to be later refused. The CC FF union is also currently in negotiations. All the FF unions are currently at the table trying to negotiate solutions in one form or another.
One more thing...
How much you pay in taxes for the fire department is directly tied to property taxes. Based on the average median home price in Las Vegas, the average home owner only pays about $7/month in taxes to have 24/7 access to 911 services and the services of the Fire Department. How much do you pay a month for water? cable? phone? etc?
All these figures are available on the County's website if you'd like to review them for yourself.
The FD expense and the amount the public is paying in taxes for our services is not the reason we are in such difficult financial times. We're not the reason California is having problems, or Greece, or timbuktu.
So please accept the fact that while some people may not like the total compensation of some FFs, the total compensation is due to the OT. Hire more FFs and OT will be reduced.
But don't forget, the county/city bean counters will likely continue to advise the commission and council that even though public perception of FF total compensation is a heated debate right now. Ultimately it's cheaper to pay one person to do the work of two, than it is to pay two people.
Come on naysayers, no response to buddy! He couldnt be more correct and its eating you degenerates up because you have nothing to say.
Come on Birdie, you can say it, you are wrong! At least call him skippy or something! He would eat you up in a debate!
Allright everyone, lets take it a little easy. You haters think we are defending our "outrageous" pay. I don't have to defend anything because it wasn't my idea, it was the city officials. Don't blame our union, they just agreed with the city officials. I don't care what you "think" you may have heard, we don't call in sick so our friend gets OT because first of all it takes hours from our sick leave bank, and if we get injured, we will need those hours. Also, it looks bad to our bosses if we are always taking sick leave, they look at that.
And this has been said a million times, WE CANNOT PICK WHO GETS OT, IT'S DONE BY COMPUTER. Clear?
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Working out is part of our job, i'm sorry it's not part of yours. It is also part of the military, does that bother you too? They go jogging on company time, out in public even. We pay for our own memberships to the gym so it costs the taxpayers nothing, as well we are ready and able to respond to ANY emergency.
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We grocery shop so we can eat, it doesn't make sense to shop the day before because you don't always have the same people at the station every shift. We also pay for that everyday.
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We work 24 hour shifts because it is cheaper that hiring 3 TIMES the people to cover the same station on 8 our shifts. We do sleep at the station because often you get sick or there is a fire in the middle of the night.
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This is the life of a firefighter. Some of this is why we pick this profession, it appeals to us. It doesn't appeal to everyone, just like sitting behind a desk does not appeal to me. I'm sure your jobs have there advantages, such is why you picked them.
So go ahead and ignorantly call us leeches, parasites, and scammers, but eventually you may have to call us to save your life, and of course we'll just show up and do our job as we always do.
You people have some of the finest men and women in the country working in your neighborhoods and you know it. That's why you get such a good nights sleep and you are rested enough the next day so you can rant about us everyday.
"Bam1969,
First of all, we are talking about City firefighters! Second,If they are out of shape and fat, you would be upset. They work 24 to 72 hour shifts. How could they workout everyday, if not on duty?"
city, county...whatever. and 24 to 72 hour shifts? doing what exactly? not fighting fires, that's for sure.
Bam1969,
Here's a short list of some of the things that your local firefighters are doing during their 24-72 hour shift...
EMS calls, haz-mat incidents, aircraft emergencies, rope & technical rescues, auto accidents, flooding conditions, perform school drills, preplan the occupancies in the respective areas, perform business inspections, hands-on single company drills, hands-on multiple company drills, write EMS reports for every patient we come in treat, perform EMS training to maintain our certifications, etc.
Regardless of what we happen to be doing at any given moment, we are still ready and able to respond to the next unscheduled emergency at a moments notice.
As far as fires go, CCFD responded to about 3000 fires in 2009. Some were simple garbage can or mattress fires and others were full-involved multi-alarm infernos. Either way any fire large or small has the ability to harm or kill us. Some can kill us immediately, some can kills us slowly.
Well said Buddy and Croc1. Your articulate means of getting your thought across are a welcome read compared to the rantings of birdie and his ilk. I am a 30 year firefighter, not in your jurisdiction, and welcome your rational to the un-rational rantings that are common on this site. Has your city done a satisfaction survey of the taxpayers? Ours did and the fire department came away with a 97% very satisfactory rating from the public. I believe that most of the public doesn't take the rantings of the firefighter haters very seriously, but it does make for entertaining reading.
The reason environ and birdie haven't responded is because they are currently sleeping on the job...unacceptable
@ nbra-
Yes, 81% satisfactory rating.