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By Dave Toplikar (contact) 
Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 1:27 p.m.
Sun Coverage
- Analyst: Don’t cut Las Vegas city jobs (5-5-2010)
- Mayor: City job losses could double earlier estimates (4-22-2010)
- Mayor: More mergers needed between Las Vegas, Clark County (4-29-2010)
- Mayor: City to move forward on employee job cuts (4-21-2010)
- Mayor: Time short for 141 Las Vegas city jobs to be saved (4-15-2010)
- Mayor: Some Las Vegas city jobs might have to be privatized (4-7-2010)
- Union leader hopeful about reaching agreement with city on salary cuts (3-26-2010)
- City employee union offers to take furloughs, pay cut (3-23-2010)
- Goodman cites ‘gridlock’ in union negotiations (3-18-2010)
- Goodman backs off proposal to fire, rehire city employees (3-15-2010)
- Mayor ‘serious’ about firing/rehiring city employees (3-11-2010)
- Council advances budget that would leave 146 jobless (3-10-2010)
- Council advances budget that would leave 146 jobless (3-10-2010)
- Las Vegas mayor: Salary cuts needed to save 171 city jobs (3-4-2010)
- Goodman: City could save 171 jobs if unions agree to pay cut (2-25-2010)
An "agreement in principle" has been made between Las Vegas city staff and the firefighters' union on a new contract, Mayor Oscar Goodman confirmed today.
However, the tentative deal with the International Association of Fire Fighters is short of the 8 percent salary cut that all city employees were asked to take next year in light of an $80 million budget shortfall, Goodman said. He declined to spell out the specifics of the tentative agreement, but did give some hints.
"In principle, I can tell you it's flat ... and less than the 8 percent that I suggested the city employees propose to us, but more than 1 percent ... in salaries and or benefits," Goodman told reporters at his weekly press conference.
Earlier, the city had asked firefighters to take an $8.8 million cut in personnel costs, but as of early April, the union had made concessions amounting to only $900,000.
Goodman stressed that the tentative firefighters agreement has not been formally brought before the city council — so no formal agreement has been reached.
"It's a step in the right direction," he said. "But, as I said, there is no consensus on the part of the council as to whether we're going to accept it or not."
A tentative budget the city council approved in March would cut 141 city jobs and eliminate some services. The city will have a final budget hearing on May 18.
The expected budget deficit has grown since then to $80 million in the 2010 fiscal year and another $40 million in the 2012 fiscal year, Goodman says.
The higher deficit -- and the lack of concessions from the unions -- will lead to twice as many jobs cut as was anticipated earlier, he said. And firefighters, who weren't included in the earlier round of cuts, could be included, the mayor has said.
The firefighters are the only city union now holding negotiations with the city.
The remaining three collective bargaining units have been asked to reopen their contracts and agree to give up their contracted cost-of-living pay increases, step increases and longevity increases, as well as take a 8 percent salary decrease next year in order to save jobs.
Thus far, the other unions have made some overtures to the city, but so far no deals have been struck.
The city's largest union, the Las Vegas City Employees Association, had been working on an agreement with the city, but its members voted in late April not to make any concessions.
Part of the reason was because they said the city could not guarantee if they made concessions that there would be no layoffs. Their chief negotiator said another reason was because the members thought Goodman's approach had been too heavy-handed.
Goodman said the union representing the city marshals, the Las Vegas Police Protective Association, has an offer on the table, but that offer has not yet come before the city council.
Earlier, the city had asked the LVPPA to reduce personnel costs by $1.1 million, but an offer the union put out in early April amounted to only $400,000. Goodman didn't provide any details about the union's latest offer.
The Las Vegas Police Officers Association, which represents corrections officers was asked to cut $3.1 million. And the LVCEA was asked to make cuts amounting to $16.7 million.
"I have not heard from either of them," Goodman said. "As I keep on saying, it is in their best interest to come to us with an offer or else the carnage begins. I can't put it any other way. People say that I'm mean when I talk that way. I'm just trying to be as pragmatic as I can be."
Goodman also commented on economic analyst Jeremy Aguero's recommendation to the council on Wednesday that no city jobs be cut -- doing so just creates more problems, Aguero said.
"I know what he was saying, but he's not talking about the reality as far as the municipal labor agreements are concerned," Goodman said. "And he conceded that when I said we're in a dilemma, we don't want to see anybody laid off. But on the other hand, the only remedy that we have if we don't have money ... is to lay off people. That's what the private sector does."
Goodman said he knows that laying off people doesn't help the overall situation because it just creates more unemployment. But that's the only option the city has, he said.
"We're not like the feds. We can't just print money when we want to print money or create debts that we can't pay back," he said.
Goodman was asked if there were any specific city programs that were on the chopping block.
"Everything is open to discussion," he said. He said the council met in closed session with city staff for about two hours Wednesday and plans to meet next week with them on possible job cuts.
"There are some philosophical issues that have to be resolved before we take a position one way or the other," he said.
He said he would be briefed next Monday and Tuesday as to specific personnel positions that would be cut under the final budget proposal.
"It would be at least twice as what we were talking about," he said.
The firefighters need to stop triple dipping into the payroll pot.
I want to get paid extra for all of things that I do at my work.
When I'm doing my job and I take extra classes or earn extra certifications I DO NOT get paid extra for doing my job even with the extra certifications.
I DO NOT get paid triple overtime when I work more that 10 hours in a day.
The firefighter union have found more ways to "milk" the payroll than any other union I have ever had to deal with in my life and I have dealt with many of them having an extensive background in payroll.
Can I take their "non" 8% cut in pay?????
I work for the state and have to take 8 hours off each month WITHOUT pay, that's just where it starts.
dont know why everyone is upset with the fires fighters. 1st if the firefighters actually filled all the vacancies that are currently open in the dept. the cost of this one dept. would actually go up do to benefits, insurance, pensions. dont blame the firefighters they are just filling the void. Why dont we blame all the senior citizens, they are the one who really puts a burden on the city. Oh and how about all the school children also. They are the biggest drain on any city. They dont contribute aything to the economy but they cost us the most. I AM KIDDING OF COURSE. (NOT):)
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps.
Violation of the open meeting law? How are all of these decisions being made but not in a public meeting and then the mayor states we will meet again next week????
"8% huh? So all those overpaid leeches will be making $185K instead of $200K. Wow, big improvement."
*******************************Smarter Than You, Congratulations, you've demonstrated that you can't read OR do math. It is always the simps that are "OUTRAGED."****************************MLIND2020, You don't think people should get paid more for certifications? Don't you know that doctors get paid more than nurses becuase of their certifications? Paramedics also, get paid more than firefighters becuase of their certification. I am sorry that you hate your job so much. You should get another one, rather than blaming other people for your misery. BTW firefighters work 56 hours every week for STRAIGHT TIME. Only after that, do they get time and a half. Please don't open your mouth unless you know what you are talking about. I heard you can make "TRIPPLE PAY" at the bunny ranch, if they would hire you.
I am VERY INTERESTED to see what the result is - loving Goodman's "riddles". Haha.
How many of those 56 hours are spent sleeping, eating, or watching tv?
Sounds like the fire fighters must have done the right thing for our community, probably more than what the mayor is saying in this story....
Fire them all
RE: Mlind2020
You make it too easy for us!!! Your stupidity and lack of knowledge with your "extensive" background in payroll make it obvious why you are only bright enough to work for the state. Get a few certifications and smarten yourself up and maybe you'll have a better understanding of the issue. Triple Overtime? Please don't be so stupid as to believe they get "triple overtime". Go get yourself some certificates and see if you can do better for yourself!
As stated the first and easiest answer is to always cut labor cost in the private sector.
How about operational costs first? Like it or not, close a firestation or two. Quit driving the equipment around to buy groceries and to go workout. You are on the clock. Stay at the firehouse. If you forgot to get enough groceries, go online and have them delivered to the station.
Fuel, tires, maintainence, etc. Anyone who has anything to do with motorized equipment knows that their useful life is based on hours/ miles. Quit driving them to do things other than an emergency response.
That is just in the fire dept which after all has become the whipping boys of the budget crunch.
The other departments need to really be honest about what they can do to reduce expenses.
Tell the department leaders to come up with a savings target by means other than wages, and if they can't, the first wages saved should be theirs.
Anyone that would dare say government is 100% efficient is a fool or a liar or both.
Im surprised they do 56 hours at straight time as I wouldn't think the union would allow for that.
Taking off on average of 20 days a year for vacation and sick days (data came from previous article), that equals 480 hours (24 hour shifts). While that would be 60 days of 8 hour shifts.
Using a 7 day work week instead of a 5, they are only getting the equivalent of 8.6 weeks with pay opposed to 12 weeks (if using 40 hour work week).
It would much more sense for our tax dollars if vacation and sick days went in either 8 or 12 hour increments instead of using 20 days off with 24 hours of pay each day!
Blatant abuse of the city's goodwill after 9/11 led us to this position IMO and I know that I shouldn't complain as I have no solution on how to get out of this mess
What is the big deal here. If there is a 10% shortfall in the budget, just cut ALL departments budgets 10%. Almost ANYTHING has 10% waste built into it. Those departments can then just do their jobs and FIND that waste.
As to freebie programs, there just isnt enough money to pay for all of them. 10% reduction is not that much. Its better than the 100% reduction that you get when you lose your private sector job.
Firefighters work 56 hour per week? How much of that time is spent sleeping? Who paid for their beds? Who pays for the pillows and sheets? Who pays to wash all those sheets? Who pays for their breakfast? I really want to know because right now I think we the taxpayers pay for all of that. Can anyone tell me? Also why cant they work 8 hour shifts so we dont have to pay them to eat, sleep and workout.
didn't really get to my end point but we would not need this much OT if they did not have the equivalent of 60 8 hour shifts off a year on average! Yes they are understaffed but the sick and vacation policy defitinitely do not help! So as long as you continue to get paid for all this work when you are not working (not to mention the down time when you do work!), then we really do not care to hear about how over worked you are
RE: greatscott
All fire stations have dorms. The municipality usually buys a twin bed for use. Its not the type you would generally want to use so its not uncommon for an employee to buy him/herself an upgraded unit.
Almost all firefighters use they're own sheets and pillows due to personal preference and or hygiene concerns. Some FD's have used hospital sheets for employee use.
Almost all firefighters use they're own sheets and pillows due to personal preference and hygiene issues. Some FD's have used hospital sheets for employee use.
All FD employees buy they're own food. They will occasionally take a unit to go shopping, this is to insure all members are able to respond together. If you see more than 4 people it means that there is more than 1 unit at the store.
The 24 hour shifts are a traditional thing. There are places where you stand a good chance of sleeping through the night, but more often you're up several times a night on calls. If it was an 8 hour grave yard shift it would have the same amount of calls. You cant close it after hours like a business. Therefore no productivity suffers. Firefighters have to respond quickly whether they are sleeping, working out, or on the toilet. Hope this clears up you questions
Fire them all and dump the scam union. Experienced firefighters will flock to LV from all over the country and work for 1/2 of what they are making and save the city MILLIONS!!!!
quertyman - without getting into the argument that it would not be cost effective to work 8 hour shifts, the public is under the impression that this would lead to much more productivity. Then if you are getting paid and you have nothing else to do, the scope of your job could increase.
so yes, I know this sounds like a terrible idea to you but we would like to see you actually doing something for your entire shift. Grocery shopping because for some god-ubnknown reason, you were unable to do it in the preceding two days off before your shift does not count. Working out, while necessary for your job, is necessary for half this city that makes money off looks. So getting paid to do so, while getting a stip that is probably 10x the cost of the lvac, also does not count.
greatscott:
where would you rather have them sleep during their shift? At home? Miles from the station? I suspect you would cry the loudest when your house is on fire that the department didn't respond in a timely manner. Does the concept of "on call" really elude you?
I believe that the terms of the contract are the same as the terms of the last contract, but this time, the firefighters promised to call the next day.
newman2
where would I have them sleep when they are getting paid so much? Exactly! I dont want them sleeping on the job, it might be traditional but lets start a new tradition where you get paid for actually doing work. Or does that concept elude you?
The city require firefighters to work 24 hr shifts. This cuts down on overtime, hiring more people, and allows for firefighters to work 56 hours a week at straight pay (18-24 bucks an hour avg).
24 hr shifts are not up to firefighters. It also allows for increased productivity. So, being at work for 24 hrs require a rest period, at night, where they can try to sleep in between calls. If they catch a fire, haz-mat spill, medical call, car accident, or any other little thing, their sleep is reduced dramatically. So I'm sure they spend some of their time off recovering from the previous shift.
I like that they work out, if I ever need them they will be able to do the job faster and without getting tired as quick. And they work out together with the fire truck so they can still go on calls. If they get a call from the gym, that means they are the closest unit and will get there faster than if they were at the station. If a 911 call happens on the other side of the station that they are from, then a fire unit from the station will go. Either way they are in their area. Oh, and they buy all their own stuff.
greatscott;
Do some research on the use of shift work for occupations prior to responding to comments. You clearly fail in understand that at any time during a shift the firefighters are required to perform their job to the best of their ability.
Or would you rather have them sit around at night awake awaiting the call to your house on fire and show up after being awake 22 hours.
How effective would you be at your job with no sleep? Seriously, think about it.
Wow it really goes to show you that Fire Fighters just don't get it.
It is not simply that you are "ready to respond" or "buy all their own stuff" it is about using the equipment for a ridiculous reason and leaving the firehouse for anything other than an emergency.
What is the reasoning behind using the equipment for recreational and personal purposes?
Get over yourselves.
I personally feel it is a huge dis-service to all that this is allowed to continue.
You could probably save 10% in your department just by staying put until an emergency.
Why do our leaders let this continue?
Hey mutt, You don't seem to realize that firefighters also perform area familiarization, school drills, fire safety education, pre-planning of existing and new construction, fire training, medical training, haz-mat training, wildland training, technical rescue training, driver training, getting fuel, medical calls, car accidents, fires, and hydrant testing. Most of these duties would not require the use of lights and sirens, nor would returning to the station. People like you have a prejudice against firefighters, so that everytime you see them in a fire engine they are automatically, "cruising for chicks".
According to your logic Mutt, we shouldn't have nuclear submarines cruising around the oceans unless we are about to launch nukes.....right? We could save at least 10% by keeping them in port at all times!
PS. I heard we spend taxpayer dollars to let people sleep on submarines! OUTRAGEOUS, OURAGEOUS! Besides, when was the last time they fired a nuclear missle? We should FIRE THEM ALL!!!
BTW, do you want a someone who has never left the station driving a 15 ton truck down the roads at high speed to an emergency? I don't.
I like how the union reps are spinning the negotiations. When they wanted to delay raises and COLA's they stated that they were giving up these items for the next two years (didn't seem to preach about how they were delayed and not really passed on).
They have cut the starting salaries which I think is a step in the right direction. If starting salaries are high then that creates a barrier to hiring new employees to alleviate OT. The real issue behind the OT isn't as much understaffing, as it is the policies in place (i.e. its not fair to have an extra test for engineer because it takes awhile to study...if you studied in all your free time at work then you would be quite fine).
On the flipside, lower starting salaries are great but we live in a country where the most productive workers (the younger with less vacation and less health problems) are actually paid twice as much as those doing the majority of the work!
What happened to using your facebook account to post comments? Come on Las Vegas Sun.
This is garbage. The taxpayer is sold out again. Politicians talking a good game, but when push comes to shove, the union is giving up nothing here. These politicians are not looking out for the citizens.
As for the talk about the ff working during their shifts...here is the big secret. They need to go to the gym and go shopping during their shifts because it gives them something to do during the day. If they were so busy they would do what normal people do and go shopping once for several days.
But since they have so much time each day,and since they are getting paid for it, why not go to the gym for the 56 hours a week they are working, instead of the 112 hours they are not.
Why not go cruise costco,smiths,albertsons etc everyday since they need to do something.
This is crap. Where are you Sisolak? I expect you to be standing up for us.
Who are the people doing the negotiating on our behalf????
So, NewCityHall, the arguement that we need all these fire stations is based on the response times from the fire stations and you clearly state that instead you are "on patrol". Well which is it? Are we basing the response times on a false pretense?
If you guys are going to cruise around, you just strenghten my assertion that perhaps we need fewer fire stations.
Mr. Fire Fighter, if you can't see the difference between responding to what you are required to respond to and taking an elective trip to the gym or store, I am at a total loss of words.
When it comes to your responsibilities, you are choosing to lump in a few that would not require a full sized truck to perform and quite frankly don't, "school drills, fire safety education, pre-planning of existing and new construction, fire training, medical training, haz-mat training, technical rescue training,(unless you are talking about the ladder trucks) " and my personal favorite "hydrant testing".
Just because something has become an accepted practice does not make it right or necessary.
We are in a budget crisis, if you don't want to have to adjust your earnings then at least adjust your behaviour.
firemen at the meat section picking out the best choice cuts...on the public's dime of course.
firetrucks parked outside the donut shop all day.
two ton gas guzzler pickups lined
up at the fire station with bush/cheney political bumper stickers still attached.
$200,000 a year for high school educated rednecks with contacts with the mormon church.
i'd say that's a bit excessive...fire them all!
privatize the fire fighting scam.
no union, fair compensation and taxpayer oversight.
that's the way to do it.
Oscar:
Pay attention to what is going on in Greece and why it's in the fix it's in. Greece was paying their servants the equivalent of 14 months pay for 12, you do the math.
Now, ration the cuts accordingly to which departments stepped up to the table and did their homework.
The teachers have demonstrated the new standard.
akrowdy:
I'm in the private sector and not in the Fire Service. I do however I do work in the periphery so I have a knowledge of how things work. I agree that sometimes a trip to the store can be misinterpreted.
I do however know that fire crews are required to be out in public and inspecting their areas of responsibilities.They operate in that manner much like the police.They buy a days worth of food in the morning. If they have to be out, does it matter if they shop. Those boys and girls gotta eat. Killing two birds if you will. Consider the store like the police donut shop if you must. They have radios and can do their thing from anywhere.
They're either holed up in the station (and supposedly playing video games and sleeping) away from view, or out in the public eye being accused of burning fuel and wasting the taxpayers money. Choose your poison. Don't believe everything that the media portrays. I know these people, some are cruds to be sure, but most are hardworking decent people whose employer made an agreement under no duress.
htotheb
Facebook pages have pictures of the posters on it and other personally identifiable information.
Just keep in mind - you are anonymous too. We are equal. You can express yourself as long as you do it in a civil manner unless of course you have told someone else your screen name.
Like has been stated before, 10% cut of a budget barely cuts into the waste in a government department.
Don't believe it? CCSD saved 21 million dollars just by NOT having a year round school and increasing class sizes a little.
I am actually on your side. Perhaps what you are doing is listening and giving too much creedence to your department leaders. A department leader only wants to see a budget increased, never cut and that is their focus. Not increasing efficiency but increasing the budget.
Help us, help you.
destruct-mutt. The Sun used the Facebook account login for on article a few days ago and it cut down on people hating and had some serious debates. Part of the problem that people have with firefighters is that they aren't doing anything in between calls. You, in fact, make the case for the opposite. School Fire drills, hydrant testing, district familiarization, pre-planning, fire safety education, training and other things in our down time. We do all of these things with a radio on our hip and are ready to respond whenever that next call comes in. Would you want us to respond with half a crew because we didn't take the fire engine to a fire or cardiac arrest? Or would you rather the people out doing these other job requirements, drive back to the station when a call comes in and then go to the fire or cardiac arrest? The Las Vegas Review Journal printed today that the starting salary for a firefighter is $43,277, yet the Las Vegas Fire Department turns a profit for the City every year. The money goes into the General Fund, which the City can do what it pleases with it. Like donating $9 million to the building of the Mob museum. If you wanna cut costs. It's overtime. Hire more people. This way, more unemployed have jobs and the city pays less overtime. This way the city pays less salary towards time and a half, and less people are unemployed in the valley.
Fire safety education, pre palnning of existing and new construction, fire training, medical training, haz mat training, driver training, getting fuel, medical calls, car accidents, fires, most of these duties do not require the use of lights and sirens. Yup sounds like CASINO SECURITY JOB to me.
So there are no Firefighters on "light duty" or Inspectors or any other way to cover some of these assignments with someone other than those who are expected to be first responders?
C'mon, be honest.
Are these "other" duties factored in to the accepted response times?
Fire Fighters are avoiding the shopping and workout question which absolutely needs to be addressed as these are the two items bringing all Fire Fighters in every jurisdiction the most grief!
How about it?
Do you have to go shop and workout, requiring the use of the emergency equipment?
Have to?
Be honest.
Sure mutt. We don't have to. Easily we could go to five 8 hour shifts or four 10's. I'll go home from work everyday. That would be a nice 40 hour schedule. We work 56 hour weeks now. That way no shopping or gym at work.... but take 56 from 40 and that leaves 16 hours. 600 employees times 16 is 9600 hours a week to make up. The city then has to hire more people. Also, take into account that every time there is shift change there is the possibility of employees being out on a call. This could be for one minute or hours depending on the nature of the call. Now you are stuck paying overtime to two sets of people. Instead of shift change being in the morning at the slowest time of the day... you would have shift change 3 times a day. I say, hire more people. Reduce overtime and reduce unemployment in Nevada.
htotheb- please don't attempt to make it appear as though I condone the current accepted practice of accomplishing these things;
"school drills, fire safety education, pre-planning of existing and new construction, fire training, medical training, haz-mat training, technical rescue training",(unless you are talking about the ladder trucks)and my personal favorite "hydrant testing".
It was a quote from NewCityHall's post.
The Sun does an adequate job of moderating the debates and one this "hot" is really pretty simple.
One more thing, destruct, these extra duties are all done in the first in district which means usually a one to two mile radius from the station. That way response times are always kept at a minimum.
See now we are negotiating. But you don't have to be angry that I am unhappy about you going to the gym and shopping by punishing me with 8 hour shifts. How about we just agree to do the personal stuff on your own time?
Pay them on the "actual"work they do. What rip offs they are. Perhaps they should pay us for all the "other business" they do on OUR time. Fire half of them and you will still have enough to answer calls. Get rid of the local city fire depts and have a municipal fir area like most large areas. STOP WHINING!!!
Now in hindsight ... would you agree that cessation of personal items during work at the beginning of the budget talks would have been a good idea on your part?
Public relations wise?
Just so you are aware, I have taken contract negotiation classes as a member of a trade union.
One thing that was brought up as an idea for the contract was morning breaks being put in the contract.
Once that has been done, management can quickly assign a cost to that item and use it to reduce/ limit hourly wages.
Perceptions and contract items cut both ways.
What people are trying to tell you in so many words is that "personal" activities that were overlooked before, stemming from the gratitude we felt after 9/11 was being overplayed. No your commitment to our safety did not change but the public perception about your lack of "personal" sacirifice on our behalf changed. So roll with it, we are all giving up "personal" things these days.
It won't be forever.
So... destruct mutt. Do you eat at work, or at sometime during your workday go out and eat?
From what I can tell the City negotiators are only slightly better than those for Clark County. I don't blame or hold any animosity towards individual fire fighters. I do blame the idiots we have as negotiators for our local governments, the idiots in local government who approved the contracts, and the idiots in Carson City who wrote NRS-288.
htotheb, would you please post a link to just one story using Facebook that had "serious debates"? I have seen only one story that had more than a single page of comments (20/pg) and most have less than a dozen. None of them had anything other than dis-jointed comments. The only reason there might be less hate is the fact that many times there are NO comments.
If you have been reading other stories that do not use Facebook, you should recall that croc1 (a FF), Buddy (also a FF) and I (a private citizen) have engaged in not only serious, but friendly debate even though they and I have much different views. We didn't need Facebook for that, and I suspect that they would not be able to speak as freely as they have if they did have to use a real name.
That is true.. boftx... but then don't forget the Birdie people and the Fire them all people.
I didn't forget them, I just choose not to include them. :)
I personally take comfort when I see police and fire out in districts. I understand "perceptions", they are in the eyes of the beholder. I for one enjoy engaging fireman and police regardless of whether the cops are on the corner eating , (personal activity) or fire dept guys shopping for their food. I take comfort in their presence. If they have to be out of their stations let em shop geez.
Packed my own lunch for many years every morning.
As far as eating on "comapany time" only since I became management/ salaried. With salary, there are tradeoffs. Usually more hours but also more flexibility.
Why? You guys want to go Salary?
I do agree with boftx as far as the lack of ability from the government negotiators. It is their lack of ability and foresight that has put you guys/ us in this predicament.
One thing your negotiators need to demand when it comes to talks is someone equal to the task in order to avoid this scenario.
Help us by holding their feet to the fire. Turn the public ire to where it belongs.
I think Police/FF should be "exempt" and paid straight salary. That would make it much, much easier to plan salary requirements and benefit amounts.
Several States allow an employee to be "exempt" if they make a certain amount over the minimum wage. I think California sets it at 2.5 times the minimum. NV could easily do the same thing just by modifying NRS-288 and the labor code. And, considering required degrees it is not that much of a stretch to consider FF a "profession".
Strange how the $10M shortfall is very, very close to the amount spent on new artwork for the new City Hall. I'm not saying, I'm just saying...
The B***S of the firefighters to hold the City hostage like this.They are so FREAKN OVERPAID and they know it !!. 8% is NOTHING...in fact....jack it up to 25% or show them the door!!And if they resist more...jack it up to 35% and then start laying off 25% of the force. This is totally outrageous.This goes for the POLICE DEPT.too.
Allright I admit it's a paste job from one of my other posts but it seems to fit in here too.
Look at the lack of ability of government negotiators in union agreements all over the cities and counties right now. No foresight, no personal interest (cost), no personal consequences while in negotiations. Well, that was until the economy stopped growing and now they are left with no outs, no contigencies, nothing. Know why? They don't teach this stuff to MBA's. MBA's are taught to reduce and control costs by reducing the payroll (layoffs).
So we are told by these same know-nothings that the reason we are having budget problems is because workers are not willing to negotiate. Workers are stepping up to the plate but once again there is no accountability for the government "negotiators".
If you are not happy with the bills that are being paid, look at whose signatures are on the payment authorization. They are all elected officials.
Dereliction of Duty.
Don't fall for the deception of listening to the "chicken littles" in your government leadership. It is their job to oversee all of this.
I think the biggest issue here is Overtime...FF's take is that they are understaffed. The public's take is that ff's are paid for much time when they are not doing anything productive or work related and this "time" goes towards calculating OT. Again I think it is ridiculous that your days off are full a full 24 shift. You only are scheduled to work aroun 120 shifts a year and you take off 20...then with all your free time you pick up shifts that are considered overtime because you were paid for the previous day where you didn't even work! Nobody else takes off 1 out of every 5-6 scheduled work days...nobody else claims they are overworked when I doubt 40 hours of "real work" are actually done a week.
Wrong or not, that is the public perception that you must overcome. You can accept that as how it looks and appears or you can choose to fight it. You can blame the unions and the city for the setup but that doesn't change our perception of your job. So if it really bothers you I suggest you do not try to justify yourself, but that you try to change the system...and we all know you will not do that!
"Public perception" is a function of deception.
Your elected officials are wasting more money than you can even imagine.
If you like the Oscar Goodman show, you will also like Chris Angle and any other magic show on the strip.
Don't fall for it, you know full well there is no quarter in your ear.
Just like you know the problem is not overtime.
akrowdybuck,
You may not agree, but FF's are paid to "be ready to respond", that includes training of all aspects of the job, hazmat, technical rescue, fire (hi-rise, chemical, car, mobile home, plane), mass casualty incident (MCI), rescue, plus all the different EMS calls, cardiac, stroke, seizures, poisonings, drownings, plus all medications that go along with this.
We do this and more to be "ready to respond". If we were paid to just "respond" it would be "on call" and we could respond from home or wherever.
I'm not saying there is not 1 minute of down time, but when you think of no matter what you're doing you have to go from 0 to 60 in a flash, your always a little on edge. Even sleeping you have one eye open, the minute those tones go off your at full speed. Why do you think there have been so many studies done on FF sleep depravation.
I read somewhere that FF's are the only athletes that go from rest to full speed without warming up.
Just some things to think about.
I'm sure you could imagine the accounting nightmare with all that training to be paid hourly to 500+ people at a;l different times and wages.
How do you know what adds up to 40 hours of work, punching computers keys or carrying 100lbs. of equipment up stairs. driving a delivery truck or working in 100+* weather in full turnouts. I don't know.
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One more thing, what ever happened to the Fire Anitiative voted on a few years ago, that was supposed to take care of our salaries for the next 10 or 20 years I thought? I heard it "somehow" was transferred into the general fund. That's what I hear anyway.
Sorry, I kind of ran-on a little on the last one.
nobody ever responds to if you think it is reasonable for tax payers to pay for you to take off almost one out of every 5 shifts??? If the vacation and sick policy equaled hours off, instead of full shifts, this would alleviate a lot of OT.
Do you feel that one out of every 5 scheduled shifts is a lot to take off? Do you think that this much time off could lead to more OT? Do you agree that OT is excessive right now?
akrowdybuck,
I'm sorry. I know I read the numbers you are referring to, but I don't remember where. would you happen to know where that article can be found. I would like to review it before I respond and make an ass out of myself.
Thanks.
well who knows if they are pulling these numbers out of the sky or not haha
Number said something like 11 days on average for vacation and 9 more for sick days or something like that. Whatever the exact numbers that were stated I'm not sure but it totalled around 20 days off paid per year.
Thanks Croc