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A colonial fife and drum corps weaves through the crowd before Saturday’s “Showdown in Searchlight,” a rally organized by the Tea Party Express.
By J. Patrick Coolican (contact) 
Sunday, March 28, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Tea Party: "Showdown in Searchlight"
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The Tea Party Express buses kicked off their latest national road trip Saturday with a rally in Sen. Harry Reid's hometown of Searchlight, Nev., which only has a population of 700. Sarah Palin gave the keynote address to the thousands who showed up for the "Showdown in Searchlight."
Jon Ralston on Showdown in Searchlight
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Jon Ralston discusses the Showdown in Searchlight on KVBC News.
YouTube: Sarah Palin in Searchlight
Related stories
- Excerpt from Sarah Palin’s address (3-28-2010)
- Many Tea Party attendees felt compelled to rally (3-28-2010)
- Sarah Palin rallies thousands in Harry Reid’s hometown (3-27-2010)
- Ann Coulter rails against government intervention in health care (3-27-2010)
- With Tea Party in town, Harry Reid helps open shooting park (3-27-2010)
Sun Coverage
The Tea Party activists are committed.
They endured traffic and a cold, stinging wind that whipped up a sheen of dust and pollen.
They traveled from as far as Washington state and Wyoming to a desolate moonscape to be part of the “Showdown in Searchlight.”
As many as 8,000 of them, according to Metro Police, marched to the hometown of Sen. Harry Reid to show their contempt and protest what they say is a dangerous lurch toward Big Government enacted since the election of President Barack Obama.
It was hard not to marvel at the commitment or to ponder what it means:
A powerful cadre of activists that could give money and knock on doors for candidates who subscribe to the Tea Party’s small-government philosophy. That, in turn, could help Republicans win back Congress and beat Reid.
Debbie Landis, a Reno organizer of the event, summed it up: “We are peaceful, we are off our couch and we are going to take this country back.”
The crowd roared when a crew of skywriters lit up the blue dome with “WE THE PEOPLE VOTE REID OUT.”
The Tea Party movement has been building for a year, opposing Obama initiatives including health care reform and a cap on carbon emissions.
They served as important volunteers for victorious conservative gubernatorial candidates in New Jersey and Virginia, and reached an ecstatic high when Scott Brown, a little-known Massachusetts state senator, won the Senate seat that had been held by a Kennedy since the 1950s and eliminated the Democrats’ 60-seat Senate supermajority.
Now, however, the movement faces a key transitional moment.
To evolve from a protest movement into a true governing coalition, they will need to develop a positive message that offers a workable alternative to Democrats — or Republicans they consider insufficiently devoted to small-government principles. And, they will need to build an organization to match their enthusiasm.
This transitional moment has arrived in the form of a Tea Party defeat — Democrats’ passage of health care reform legislation, a goal finally achieved after decades of failure.
Democrats now seem to have recovered some momentum heading into the 2010 elections, with another victory on banking reform legislation seemingly imminent.
The health care defeat has a few Republicans questioning their party’s strategy — prodded by the Tea Party movement — to oppose and obstruct rather than seek a deal.
After the vote, David Frum, a speechwriter for former President George W. Bush, wrote on his blog, “Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.”
Then he offered this stinging rebuke, which fell squarely on the Tea Party wing of the party: “We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible failure.”
By dealing with Obama, Frum argued, Republicans could have gotten a more conservative, free-market oriented bill, while denying the Democrats the opportunity to become the party of universal health care.
Frum was in turn criticized as an out-of-touch elite who has drifted to the left.
Patrick Ruffini, a former Bush political operative, offered his own critique of the Republican health care defeat: “The battle was lost before the first shot was even fired because Republicans did not present a compelling alternative story of what was wrong with the health care system, or how they would fix it.”
The health care message among many Tea Party activists Saturday was paradoxical: They decried a “government takeover” of health care under the recently passed legislation, but many activists interviewed by the Sun are themselves recipients of government health insurance through Medicare, Veterans Affairs or police retiree insurance.
(In truth, the legislation will create new regulations for health insurance companies and raise taxes on some plans, while helping the uninsured buy coverage, but is not a government takeover in the sense of Canadian or British health care, for instance. In fact, it will deliver to private insurers millions of new customers.)
The health care defeat last week was compounded when a smattering of Democratic members of Congress faced a rash of vandalism and threats after the vote. Democrats blamed Tea Party activists and their favorite media megaphones, including Rush Limbaugh, for inciting the violence.
A crowd that police estimated to be about 8,000 listens to Sarah Palin speak at the "Showdown in Searchlight" Tea Party Express rally just outside Searchlight on Saturday, March 27, 2010.
Tea Party conservatives, including Saturday’s star attraction Sarah Palin, are pushing back against the charge; she called it “bunk.”
And indeed, the charge may be unfair, if Saturday’s event is a guide. The activists were peaceful, docile even.
Still, extremism, though rare, was unmistakably present.
Obama was referred to on signs as a “traitor” and “thief.” T-shirts juxtaposed Obama with a hammer and sickle, the symbol of the Soviet Union, the murderous regime with which the United States engaged in decades of Cold War at a cost of trillions of dollars and untold lives in various proxy wars.
The accusations were reminiscent of other recent far-right and far-left wing movements, as when the John Birch Society once accused President Dwight Eisenhower of being in league with the communists, or when Bush was called a “fascist.”
The Tea Party movement will have to enforce discipline and cast out extremism, much as William F. Buckley did for the conservative movement by denouncing the Birch Society.
Rick Perlstein, historian of the conservative movement, noted that the party in power in American politics is usually the one that has successfully cast the opposition as extremist.
While refining a message, the Tea Party movement will also need to continue building an infrastructure to capture the energy and turn it into results — meaning votes.
Organizers of Saturday’s event showed a remarkable ability to draw throngs to a remote locale.
But it was also a missed opportunity, as Reid’s major Republican opponents — Sue Lowden, Danny Tarkanian and Sharron Angle — didn’t speak until after Palin, by which time people had begun streaming out.
Movement organizers are adept at using the Internet to publicize their events, but the venue had no visible booths for candidates and grass-roots groups, and no one seemed to be collecting names, telephone numbers or e-mail addresses for later use.
Chuck Muth, the longtime conservative activist who is broadly sympathetic to the movement’s goals, said it was still a remarkable phenomenon: “These guys are winging it and yet turning people out who have never been engaged.”
The movement is a positive development for the Republican Party if it can keep it within the fold, said Jennifer Duffy, analyst for the Cook Political Report. But she added that their import is not yet known: “Before we deem them a serious political player, let’s look at the win/loss record.”
Sun reporter Michael Mishak contributed to this story.
looked like social security and medicare on parade. crowd probably rushed to nearest casino to play penny slots and get their free buy 1 get one buffet coupon.
How is it that seemingly "normal" people can follow these nut jobs like Palin and McCain around like a flock of sheep? I'll bet they all belive the world is flat too!
It was a great day to be out amongst fellow Americans, and to enjoy the American freedoms which we are quickly losing..
o.k. enough of the blasting seniors because they play penny slots. First let me remind you that it has been the seniors that kept Las Vegas alive for many more years than you are old. Why are you so angry that they chose to follow any particular political group? They probably know more in their little finger than you have in your whole body. They need to be fearful of what is taking place in the political arena. After all they were forced to buy into Social Security and Medicare as you are. So what if they worked hard to raise their family, paid their bills, put their children though school, went though some pretty rough times as you are going though now. Does that give you the right to be so disrespectful and mock them as you have? I don't think so. As for Las Vegas, I was married there in 1965, still married to the same man. We have seen the Rat Pack, watched Wayne Newton go from the young guy to a super Vegas attraction. Have celebrated birthdays and anniversaries and weddings in Vegas for several years. Does it matter to you if I play penny slots or dollar slots? or maybe on some occasions we play craps. Binion's used to have 25 cent craps tables that was a lot of fun to play but now it's no less than $5.00 tables. Does that still give you the right to mock how I spend my money? Your attitude is not a single one we have seen the discord build over the years so we now choose to go to Laughlin where we are treated some respect and feel they appreciate our business. Yes we have slowed down over the years and yes, even our minds have slowed down but it still works. We have worked hard to have the right to go where we chose to have fun without being criticized by some misguided individual that needs to take out his frustrations on the seniors. Consider this, we have buried our parents, brothers, sister, and unfortunately a son that died for you to have the right to say what you do. So the next time you see a senior couple playing a penny slot put your own self severing attitude in your pocket and think to yourself someday you might be sitting there playing a penny slot.
Palin supports McCain and amnesty fo illegals, sounds like Republican neo-con boiler plate.
Two libertarians were throwen out of Palin's Mesa AZ appearance to support McCain.
bunch of sheep
I know why the turn-out was so low. The Tea Baggers were too busy driving on taxpayer-funded roads, sending their kids to public schools, living in safe neighborhoods protected by police and ultimately a strong military, drinking clean public water, using electricity from publicly funded works projects like Boulder Dam, enjoying public parks, forresting, mining or drilling on public lands, buying safe products, eating FDA inspected food, and enjoying the countless other benefits to being a tax-paying American.
The only thing this "Tea Party" has to do with the one in Boston is that all the participants are living in the 18th century.
Q: Why did the tea party militia fail to stop the spread of socialism?
A: They forgot to write "Ready, Aim, Fire!" on the palms of their hands.
How many tea party patriots does it take to change a lightbulb? Ten million and five: One to go to Wal-Mart and buy a lightbulb (and a gun because he's going to the store anyway), one to scoff at global climate change, one to draw a rally poster making fun of Al Gore, one to complain about the socialist conspiracy to bring light to all Americans, one to change the bulb, and 10 million to sit in the dark even though the light is on.
Teabaggers are those people who come from out of State to run the outcome of local elections and whine that big Government is interfering in their own lives.
LOL's.....yea like about 90% of Reid $25 million campaign treasure chest is from out-of-state.
Are you going to say something about that?
Nope.....I just put you down as a hypocrite.
"Democrats now seem to have recovered some momentum heading into the 2010 elections, with another victory on banking reform legislation seemingly imminent."
There is no real proof to support that statement.
There is only one poll that supports it. Since the bill passed there are two other polls that supported the previous trend.
On the other hand, please drink koolaid like this.
Harry is a true American patriot and has been so consistently. Yes, lots of folks don't like him - that is common when you are in office a long time. So you supporters - get out and vote to make sure that the teabaggers' votes don't make a difference! Live long and prosper, Harry!
sarah palin has no substance...
none...
zip...
zilch...
sarh palin is dumb...
dumb...
dumber...
dumbest...
and these old fogies worship her...
hee hee hee...
hoo hoo hoo...
haa haa haa...
funniest part for me...
all the build up the local hate talk blowhards gave joe the plumber's assistant who never owned nor could afford a plumbing company...
big big build up...
day after day...
and...
he spoke for something like 4 minutes...
hee hee hee...
hoo hoo hoo...
haa haa haa...
L-O-S-E-R-S!!!
did you see the obama as the joker poster???
there is a racist element to the tea baggers!!!
somebody's grandma is a racist!!!
there is a racist element to the tea baggers!!!
somebody's grandpa is a racist!!!
there is a racist element to the tea baggers!!!
Democrats whine about the hate speech that they accuse Tea Party of doing yet the Democrats constantly use hate words to describe Tea Party members.
I wonder if Democrats would use those words for the colonists that protesting the arrogrant power grab by King George.
Yep....Democrats have zero class and are hypocrites.
Please keep using the reference.
It helps the Tea Party cause and damages the lib cause with is a very very very good thing.
Rocky:
What are your top 5 complaints against Harry Reid? And please tell us in a sentence or two how they affect your personal life.
Thanks.
Ask powerful Senator Harry Reid why he resigned as the head of Nevada gameing.
Perhaps his mob nickname Mr.Clean Face
The teabaggers are becoming a force in America. At a cost to each party.
The most recent polls show 74% of teabaggers are republican and 16% are democrats. That means 10% REALLY crazy are there. They must be the spellcheckers for teabagger signs.
What this means long term is not known, but short term it is likely to lead to extreme candidates.
Not a good sign of things to come.
Bad things by Reid that hurt me or will hurt me:
1) He passed ObamaCare which will drive up the premiums of health insurance for me and my family. It will take money out of the economy will hurt my ability to earn money and hold a job. It will increase the deficits which also hurt the economy and the ability for me to earn a decent living.
Also, to empowers people in DC to control what benefits that my insurance policy will cover. They will cut those benefits and hurt by healthcare.
He voted to increase the cost of Medicaid to Nevada which means less money for schools for my child.
2) He passed Cash for Clunkers, Cash for Corporations which added to the deficits for little value in return. Those deficits will be a drag on the economy and hurt my ability to earn a decent living.
3) He supported Bailouts for corporations which added tons to the deficits which will be a drag on the economy and hurt my ability to earn a decent living.
4) He supported the Israeli invasion of Lebanon which greatly increases the likely hood that our country will be attacked by terrorists which may or may not harm me physically but just like 9/11 would cause great harm to the economy and my abillity to earn a decent living.
5) Harry suppresses the building of Natural Gas and Coal plants which will eventually cause power bills to raise which will harm my standard of living.
Reid does not do all bad things.
He has done some good things.
Here are those.
1) He voted for and supported Nevada's Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage and he voted for DOMA that allows Nevada to ignore gay marriages from other states.
2) He did not call for Bush's impeachment or push for hearings on Bush activities then or now.
3) He did not stop the appointment of great judges to the Federal courts including the Supreme Court
Excuse me!! Tea baggers are much different than a Tea Party. Look it up in the dictionary you smart owl. LOL!
Thanks to all the people who attended the party on Sat. What a great bunch of Americans who don't want their rights taken away ie having to PAY for health care if their DO NOT want it. Talk about Communism.
Obama and your crew why don't you have the same health care as you want the American people to have???? DUH!
enviroprotector
Please tell me exactly what freedoms you have lost?
Mark Williams and Melanie Morgan are talk show hosts without talk shows. The PA system didn't work. Shows that these people are all a bunch of loosers and sheep.
So where were they when Bush/Cheney were blowing hundreds of billions of taxpayer money for an unprovoked attack and occupation of Iraq?
These people are merely shills for the millionaires who have to foot that huge 3.8% tax increase. Boo hoo!
ladyat62
Explain to me how do you figure that " having to PAY for health care if their [sic] DO NOT want it" has anything to do with taking our rights away? Are you saying that everyone is being "forced" to get health insurance? Isn't the ability for EVERYONE to have access to health insurance of good thing?
Can I assume then, for you personally since you feel so put upon by the government, that it is one of the following: (1) you are covered under your husband's insurance; (2) you pay for your own health insurance; (3) you are covered under an employer-sponsored health plan; or (4) have NO insurance which if that is the case - EVERYONE ELSE will be paying FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE.
How does requiring health insurance being made available to EVERYONE who DOES NOT HAVE ANY health insurance coverage infringe on our rights? Is it again the "you have to purchase the health insurance or be fined" situation?
As I understand it: if you have insurance, great; you're one of the lucky ones. If you DO NOT have insurance, you will have to choose, and pay for, from the insurance plans the government will be making available. This way, everyone will be able to have health insurance. And that is a good thing.
I don't see how this takes away any of our rights. What - the right to mooch off of everyone else who DOES HAVE insurance? Kind of like it is now???
Lady, quit drinking the Kool Aid. You're 62 years old; that's not old and doddering. You graduated high school around 1965. Probably lost your virginity around the age of 18 or 19. Dated guys who went to Vietnam. Shame on you for falling for the hype of these tea party folks.
Yeah, this plan is not perfect and a LOT of it is not going to take effect in the near future, which is going to almost contradict what the the gov't health plan is supposed to be doing - helping people. (Are we surprised??? Hell no!!!) One of the things that won't take effect until 2014 is THEN the insurance companies cannot refuse anyone with a pre-existing condition, ie high blood pressure, high cholesteral. It was also said on the Sunday morning political shows, the insurance companies are going to have a field day raising the premiums while they still can!! So if you have insurance and if you pay any part of the premium, those premiums are all going up real soon!!
Oh yeah - read up on what Communism is. That is a very strong description to use when all the government is trying to do is make sure everyone has access to health care in this country. It is not going to be FREE either so it is not socialized medicine like some foreign countries have.
Whatever happened to Joe the Plumber anyhow?
I wonder how many of these anti-"Socialist" Terrorist Party members will put their actions where their words are and give up their Medicare and Social Security?
How many will no longer drive on roads funded via socialist methods (taxes)?
How many will stop visiting National, State, and Local parks funded by socialist methods (taxes)?
I could go on and on pointing out the hypocrisy of these willfully ignorant people.
grannie, with respect, I would like to help respond to Del_Munch.and the sugar coated explanation of this healthcare bill provided.
In most of your post you refered to the healthcare plan as making ins available to those who don't have it. uh, you are a little off.this plan "forces" every person,(except 10% of that 11% 938 billion spent)to either have some kind of ins or the govt will give you options, of what we don't know, or be fined.My rights that have been infringed upon are: The right to make a living and CHOOSE who I want to contribute to. My rights as an american to be a part of the process of decision making which we all pay for our elected officials to do. My right to choose to be dumb and not have ins or my right to choose to have ins and choose what ins. I want.My right to not be required to pay for illegals to be covered or abortions to be paid for. Insurance is not a right of passage, and this admin has infringed on our constitutional rights.We have lost those rights and freedom of choice.We have been required by law, to contribute out of our paycheck, into SS and Medicare, alot of us since teenage years, if we calced that required contribution, dam skippy I want MY contribution. If I weren't required by law to contribute, as a hard working prideful person, I would decline the handout.and what in the name of decency does this womans virginity and the date she may have lost it have to do with a dam thing here? who will pay for the 10% when they go to the doctor? Who will pay for the ones who choose to pay a fine vs buy coverage when they go to the doctor? $600 million in Nevada alone to expand Medicaid, who will pay for that? Medicare D eliminated, $250 check to seniors for meds?????? One prescription may be that amount and some seniors take several, what do they do now? Some Medicare benifits are going to bedropped, what will the seniors do on a fixed income? They will be required to pay more for govt funded ins, and these people have paid into medicare for 30,40 and 50 years,required by the govt,and promised coverage in their old age, to have it reduced by this admin,WTF.Their constitutional right to the quality of life, promised by our constitution is in direct violation approved by this admin.
I like how the Republicans seem to be able to voice their sides of the debate, but the Democrats, like Birdiedreamin always resort to name calling. Guess that's why the Republicans will win big this fall.
So long as these tea-baggers keep up with the seccesion talk and bombing federal buildings.. their Republican party backers will never win.
If these events weren't sponsored by FOX NEWS on their website, people might take them more seriously. It's right wing extremists like the Oklahoma City Bombers and the Michigan Militia members arrested today by Federal agents we need to worry about.
I think this is great!!! I have never read so much liberal venom, obviously the tea parties are doing their jobs!!!
whats fascinating is, a lier always thinks people are lying to them, a cheater always thinks someone is cheating them, a racist, will accuse others of being racist, the accusations slithering off the democrats mouths here, speak volumes.You guys give yourselves away without even knowing it!!!!
lipton
"The right to make a living and CHOOSE who I want to contribute to"
...
"We have been required by law, to contribute out of our paycheck, into SS and Medicare, alot of us since teenage years, if we calced that required contribution, dam skippy I want MY contribution"
You WILL take part in Social Security and Medicare, right? Or will you forgo it all once you are old enough since contributing to it "forcefully" over the years violated your rights?
"My right to choose to be dumb and not have ins or my right to choose to have ins and choose what ins"
You will have a choice on what insurance you want IF you can afford to secure it on your own and if you are not already under an employer's health plan. If you are dumb and don't want it - stay out of the ER's so the rest of us don't have to pay via our own insurance premiums. That is OUR right not to pay for your illnesses because of YOUR stupidity and stubborness.
"If I weren't required by law to contribute, as a hard working prideful person, I would decline the handout"
BS to that!!! Then don't take the so-called handout; the rest of us can use it.
"
lipton Part 2
"who will pay for the 10% when they go to the doctor? Who will pay for the ones who choose to pay a fine vs buy coverage when they go to the doctor? "
The same who are paying for it now: the ones who have insurance now. Perhaps even insurance premiums will go down with so many more people having health insurance. One could only hope!
"$600 million in Nevada alone to expand Medicaid, who will pay for that?"
Everyone who pays taxes. Blame that $600 million for MEDICAID on the politicians in the State of Nevada. Get rid of the illegals and the cost would go down.
"Some Medicare benifits are going to bedropped, what will the seniors do on a fixed income? They will be required to pay more for govt funded ins,"
The gov't funded insurance cannot be any worse nor more expensive then the supplemental insurance seniors are required to have now. I saw the book from Medicare with the insurance options. The book weighs at least 3 lbs and so many choices, it was confusing. AND....options in every price range imaginable. If you want $10 precriptions, the premiums were higher. If you wanted no drug coverage, the premiums were low and affordable. Choices Choices Choices. Not ALL insurance options will be gov't sponsored insurance.
You sound like a disgrunted senior yourself and you should be. Especially if you paid in to the system like you said - 30, 40 years and now when it's time to get it back - everyone is getting screwed. Oh wait - I forgot - you don't want a handout. Obviously Medicare was not meant to be the only insurance that seniors can get and have. The secondary insurance required has been in effect for a while now. The population is aging and the current system is no longer sufficient to take care of everyone - even though ALL of us have paid into it since our first jobs over 40 years ago. This has been an issue for a long time now in Washington, but no one did anything about it. We had to spend all those billions of dollars fighting wars in the Middle East since the first Gulf War.
One thing I agree with: the voting public should have been consulted in some way or another before this health care plan was pushed through.
Oh - and don't think for a SECOND the Republicans are on your side....... No one is.
If I pay for it, I'm using it. If I don't pay for it I don't use it simple as that. oh but you will be paying for those with no insurance. there will be those who would rather pay a yearly fine, and there will still be 10% uninsured and illegals will continue to cross the borders.
Then don't take the so-called handout; the rest of us can use it. This part I like, why don't you get a flippin job and pay for your own instead of expecting someone else to pay for it? like alot of us do. and I think you called me a liar. contrary to what you might think or can relate to, there are those of us that don't do well with handouts that someone else worked for and would rather do it on our own and take care of our own, unfortunatley, the democrats feel americans should be takers and not doers.
but of course you would say that, I wouldn't expect anything less from a democrat.
look at all those senior citizens...
some racists...
all on medicare...
all collecting social security...
all collecting every penny they paid into social security...
and then some...
greatest generation my butt!!!
isn't bird season open yet?doesn't somebody have a really big cat? racist ugly puke.democrats are racist, thats the history of your party, trying to disguise the disgust of it by insisting on trying to refocus it as a republican trait, is pathetic to say the least. I can't even imagine the democrats claiming something as nasty as you.
I hope the FBI cracks down on these nuts the way they did the Michigan Militia kooks. Glen Beck should be taken off the air.
Harry Reid couldn't draw 8000 obama Zombies to Seachlight but 8000 citizens/voters/taxpayers but real Patroits will show up and come Nov 2010 will give reid the BOOT..
Redneck Airheads on parade...LOSERS (nice, dusty, windy day for all of you. Just like Bin Laden. Go back in your holes now. Bye, bye)
Just a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, running around with no idea where they're going.
This is the most stupid thing in the entire world. i hope you republicans remember that your party and president left us in the largest deficit in US history. just reminding you :)
Gotta love those misguided rednecks.
Any of those lummoxes realize that by splitting the republicans like they are doing will almost insure that Harry will remain in office?
Where are their muskets?? Hey morons, keep your Halloween costumes in the closet and return promptly to reality.
Today FBI raided locations in Michigan and Ohio and arrested several members of a little known right wing group called Hutaree.. look it up. They're stepping up efforts to rid the country of domestic terrorists. Finally this wire-tapping thing might come in handy against future Timothy McVeigh's.. the seeds of which get fertilized at events like Searchlight.
Be warned anti-government right wing extremists.. domestic terrorism will not be tolerated.
no, the big B-Ho is leaving us in the biggest deficit this country has ever known, in little over 1 year in office.
dipstick, if you research it just a tad, it was a unanimous decision to invade Iraq.what makes me puke is, Reid telling the public after all those soldiers died for this country, that it was a failure.
mrt, was this after a republican senator had gunshots through his window, or that congresswomen and the death threats she recieved? be warned,left wing nutjobs, no domestic terrorism will be tolerated.how bout it mrt, forgot that little detail didn't ya?
Del_Munch, every answer you gave in response to my post was written in this article, which tells me, you blindly believe and follow without any mind of your own. which seems to be the typical way for you guys. For a minute I thought you actually had done some searching that helped you make up your mind.
"domestic terrorism will not be tolerated."
You mean in like Obama getting help to start his political career from a known terrorists who has never apologized for his actions.
I am glad that the lib koolaid drinkers are finally going to get tough with domestic terrorism.
Are you going to call for Obama's resignation for his poor judgement?
LADYAT62---"What a great bunch of Americans who don't want their rights taken away ie having to PAY for health care if their DO NOT want it. Talk about Communism."
So you dont want peoples rights taken away to pay for others healthcare ie Medicare?
That whole argument is beyond hypocritical. It actually beyond stupid. Where was the rage before this bill about "socialized medicine" and "people rights"? Medicare is MORE SOCIALIST THAN THIS BILL, by far.
Humm, government determines rates, enrolls doctors and facilities, determines claims approval and pays the bill and as of 2006 will even pay for prescription drug benefits. And it is going to bankrupt us as a country. But there were never any protests, in fact the only time medicare recipients raised any concern was at the thought of a reduction in their socialized medicine.
Funny we never saw a fight against SOCIALIZED MEDICINE by demanding we cut or eliminate medicare did we. Now their is a huge concern about "Socialized medicine" and a "loss of freedom" and costs. Why so concerned now????? Simple they are afraid their "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE" may be reduced and it will be, it has to be.
Are you aware Ronald Reagan campaigned to stop medicare from ever being enacted? In fact he made a record listing his reasons to fight "this socialist program"! It is HILARIOUS to now see the "socialist" argument being made largely by the ones who have benefited from "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE" for decades. THOSE WHO PROTEST THIS BILL AS SOCIALIST AND A LOSE OF FREEDOM WHILE RECEIVING MEDICARE ARE THE BIGGEST SOCIALISTS OF ALL. Give me mine at the expense of people trying to raise a family and future generations.
By The Way--you people calling tea party supporters are just making yourself look bad and hurting your own creditability. Heres an idea make a point! The old strategy of reaching into the bag of "isms" and tossing a name really doesnt work , its just cheap and lazy.
That Joker poster is in no way racist. Joker get it--insult, it was actually pretty clever.
I noticed quite a few posters from moveon.org, eicu, etc. Noticed they wasted vast amounts of web space.
Progressive, socialist libs, just where do you think the fed money originates? Tax dollars from those old folks who worked for more than forty years. Who payed for the highway systems in this country - taxpayers?. The US taxpayer has paid for every government program in this country.
Grow up. Get an education. Study some real history. After that return to discuss with us old folks who fought wars, worked, and paid taxes so jackasses like you have the right to spill your stupidity and ignorance on the Internet.
the obama as the joker poster is racist...
period...
end of story...
there is a racist element to the tea baggers...
period...
end of story...
somebody's grandma is a racist...
somebody's grandpa is a racist...
period...
end of story...
and the saddest part of all...
the leadership of the tea baggers won't say a word to stop it...
did sarah dumb as a bag of rock ever say anything...
hell no...
that's her whole schtick...
appeal to the lowest common denominator...
that's all she does...
she has no new ideas...
she is dumb...
she is no big thinker...
she riles up crowds...
virtually any entertainer can do that...
be proud tea baggers...
be very proud...
Hey Lipton, you're right on the mark with your comments.
Remember, you can always tell what liberals fear by what they giggle about the most. If the Tea Party and Sarah Palin were truly irrelevant to them, they wouldn't spend so much time and energy posting their usual sophomoric "teabagger" comments.
Alas, they're like the high school girl who gets dumped by her boyfriend and spends hours on the phone telling all her friends how much she doesn't care about him anymore.
P.S. Andrew Breitbart is now offering to donate $100,000 to charity if anyone can supply solid evidence of Tea Party members yelling racial epithets at Rep. John Lewis in D.C.
Gee, with all those cameras at that event, I just can't imagine why nobody has taken Breitbart's challenge yet ... unless, ummmm, the story was horse droppings from day one.
This Tea Party jazz is a clear case of ELDER ABUSE!!!
The UBER WEALTHY want their power and wealth back;
ALL OF IT! With interest!
Hmmm... how to do it; let's whip the ELDERLY into a lather by feeding them LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE!
This is all a very orchestrated, very choreographed plan by the rightist NutJobs that ROBBED YOU BLIND in the FIRST PLACE!
Every single move made by the right is designed to punch the hot-buttons of FEAR. It's Conjured up B.S., designed to make the masses wet their pants. And WHO is easiest to scare; KIDDIES AND THE ELDERLY! & Kids don't vote. THE REPUBLICAN/TEA PARTY KNOWS NO SHAME!!! Let's scare the BEJESUS out of the ELDERLY!
These tactics are not new. It the manner and method of delivery that's changed.
And oh, by the way; to the obstructionist Republican Party of N FREAKING OH, with their recently reiterated plan to "JUST SAY NO" to every piece of legislation between now and November;
We can see how REALLY, REALLY CONCERNED YOU ARE about the American people and the myriad issues dumped on them by 8 ugly years of Republicans running roughshod through the treasury...
THEY DO NOT CARE ONE IOTA ABOUT YOU!!!
Grandpa & Grandma are being PLAYED LIKE FIDDLES.
You Right Winger's are for WHO again?
"I, ME, MINE"!!!!
Yesterday, on CNN... (THERE is your "fair & balanced"...) I heard and saw AMPLE, AMPLE EVIDENCE
of these tea party NutJobs doing EXACTLY what they have been accused of.
Can you BELIEVE the NERVE of some of these crazy right-wing NutJob Media outlets DENYING the OBVIOUS? Calling John Lewis a LIAR?
It's akin to denying racism exists...
Beleeeve me... racism is behind A LOT of the ANGRY, spiteful reaction to the Health Care legislation!!!
If you deny it, you are lying to YOURSELF!
hey smiley face...
if that blowhard had any guts...
he would make the offer going forward...
why do you think he didn't do that???
hmmm???
hee hee hee...
hoo hoo hoo...
haa haa haa...
check out erykah badu's new video on youtube...
it's called window seat...
i would post the link but it would probably get deleted...
whom do you think she is talking to???
tea party losers???
oh by the way...
since you losers are so damn dumb...
that is dealey plaza in the video...
I think the Tea Party movement will lose steam over the summer, but I don't think the real people, upset over recent events, will forget why they're mad come November.
the only ones making racist remarks are the democrats, trying to divert the disgusting history of their party as anothers trait. If your not threatened by the tea party movement, why are you talking and making fun of it so much? It all just verifies the "bully" trait the dems have as well.I suppose we can expect when the majority shifts, which it will, that the democrats will either get on board, or sit down and shut up, which is what the big B-Ho expected.CNN, balanced news? I guess you think MSNBC is balanced as well.kind of like the View!!!
I never paid into SS or Medicare because I was a public employee. Many cops ffers ,teachers ,posties fall into this catagory.
But I still think its a good program overall,It's not enough to retire on,you need to save and invest also,but for many people who thru no fault of their own have seen their jobs evaporate,pension,healthcare eliminated later in life 'its good.I dont know where my benefits are going in the future also,whenever things get bad,public servents are always targeted as overpaid,underworked parasites on society.In many cases thats true,but I walked out with my head held high proud of the work I did.
Bundy, I commend you for that. I guess the whole point of bringing up state workers is exactly what your remark says and these people here are just happier than a pig in poop about bigger govt.They are all for it, so long as they think they benifit from it, but the minute, they lose something,govt workers are the first one they want to eliminate.Makes absolute no sense.
Anyone protesting health care reform who is on medicare (aka socialism!) should be forced to give it up immediately and go get their own insurance and see what it's like to pay for it themselves. What a bunch of hypocrites!
so what you are saying there,ivegotmine, is all these seniors, on most probably fixed income, who have worked their whole lives, required by federal law to contribute to SS and medicare for their old age, should just walk away? Interesting enough, they are losing benifits to medicare and will be required to get additional coverage which will cost more and meds will cost more because the "D" is going away.I find the todays generation that has no respect or consideration for the older people of this country,deplorable, even 3rd world countries take care of their old people, not here, maybe you don't care about the well being of your parents or grandparents, kick them to the curb is your attitude. Do your parents know you feel this way?
Lipton--ivegotmine is 100% correct!!
Protesting "socialized medicine" when they are the beneficiaries of the only "socialized medicine" in this country that is set to bankrupt this country,shame on them.
ON fix incomes who have contributed, in case you didnt know most people are on fixed incomes.what do you tell the forty year old trying to raise a family, pay for your families medicine AND theirs (a burden they didnt have, not to mention your hypothetical person had forty years to plan, unlike our hypothetical forty year old). Yes they paid in to receive SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, just no where near enough to pay for the benefits they expect. And moreover the prescription drug plan wasnt even around when they where required to contribute to SS and Medicare( talk about socialism),where was the outrage at spending our childrens future then??? Not even a whimper when this near trillion dollar benefit was added. (2008-2018, $747billion alone, neve rmind the preceding or following years)
The point is, it is soooo hypocritical to scream socialism and rail against socialized medicine when A) you are currently benefiting from it B) Do not object to increases in SOCIALIZED MEDICINE that benefit you (only others) C)the real motive (as you so nicely pointed out) is reductions of the socialized medicine benefits for your group (meaning people receiving it and protesting)
Are they aware Ronald Reagan campaigned AGAINST medicare as a socialist program?? (Only interesting because he is often cited as a true hero (for good reason) and he told people exactly how it would and is playing out)
They are losing benefits--they have too. It is a bankrupting our country, will drain working families to try and support it, was always used as a vote buying tool by increasing benefits.
Ever see what happens when anyone proposed reductions to make it sustainable? Then their were protest not to cut "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE".
The simple fact is medicare was a driving factor behind this bill to curtail cost and spread risk, under the pretense of expanding coverageto uninsured, you dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. Yea-- help more people as opposed to meanies cutting our socialized medicine or so it was suppose to have been seen.
"I find the todays generation that has no respect or consideration for the older people of this country,deplorable"
Nice little emotionally charge deviation from the facts. I find it deplorable that people show no concern for the their children and grandchildren being bankrupted to provide them "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE". In fact they would gladly bankrupt their children and grandchildren before even acknowledging that there needs to be serious reductions in medicare outlays to compensate for their terrible lack of planning for retirement. (retirement is not a right you know? You've either planned correctly and can afford it or you can't. The third world countries you mention do not see it as a right)
I'd say we do, are you suggesting MORE SOCIALISM for them?
"don't care about the well being of your parents or grandparents, kick them to the curb is your attitude."
I certainly do, which is why we need to get costs under control, I also care about the three children I have to provide for and their future and do not want to bankrupt them and the children with a system that current the current users seem to think is off limit regardless.
"kick them to the curb is your attitude."
No -- but dont let their "socialized medicine" bankrupt us and future generations.
"Do your parents know you feel this way?"
Mine do and in fact where completely outrage at further sinking the "socialized medicine" system with additional benefits such as part "d". Maybe they feel this way because they can add, subtract and reason and that leads them to know it is unsustainable and people who didnt plan properly can not expect future generations to pay for their "socialized medicine". You see they knew retirement was a reward for proper planning (and luck) not a right to be guaranteed at any cost on the backs of their children and grandchildren.
The point is it the amazing double standard of people railing against "socialized medicine" when they in fact receive "socialized medicine" (that will bankrupt their children, childrens children and maybe childrens childrens children) While protesting "Socialized medicine" for others because they feel their ox is getting gored.
You missed my point Lipton. I'm all for Medicare - I believe in taking care of our seniors - but I also believe in taking care of non-seniors as well. Seniors get way more benefits out of Medicare then they paid into it. The government makes up the difference. That's why if someone is going to classify the new health care reform as "Socialism", then they have to classify Medicare that way as well. Both are government funded.
As for me, I believe that as one of the wealthiest countries in the world, it's a shame to let people go bankrupt due to illness and to have to have to hold fundraisers for families with sick children. It's a shame to let corporate insurance companies kick people off when they get sick or to let corporate insurance staff deny treatment because it is too costly. It's a shame when our citizens have to go to Mexico for dental work and Canada for prescriptions. Anyone who thinks our current system is great has not been sick recently.
you just made an absolutely perfect case for why NOT to have further socialized govt controlled healthcare.If you check your history, republicans fought tooth and nail to keep Medicare from becoming law. It became law anyway. Now you are criticizing republicans for once again trying not to further socialized medicine. I am disgusted that my children and granchildren will be responsible for paying back the trillions this admin has so frivously spent. I also am disgusted that there is little to no concern for the older people of this country.
Maybe you need to help your parents calc it again. My grandmother, is losing medicare benifits and with the "D" program she has been able to recieve her meds for less than $100 a month(competition). with that gone, she has to purchase additional coverage to afford her meds, which all comes out of her very meager fixed income.paalease, "they knew retirement was a reward for proper planning, not a right to be guarenteed at any cost to their children and granchildren. Holy sh8t, democrats just made healthcare a "right" of passage and my children and granchildren will be resaponsible for paying this back. You made the arguement in favor of conservative aspect of this debacle of a bill.
martin, see, this is a real part of this whole problem. The conservitive is for healthcare reform. The republicans had proposed over 147 suggestions to the admin.for healthcare reform. No one has ever denied the industry needs help. We just don't like how the democrats did it and without any input from the republican party. I am totally baffled at how democrats say the medicare program is broke, there is abuse of funds, there is corruption, therefore, we are going to starve them of funds and create a whole new govt run govt controlled program, didn't anybody learn from the first go round? Fix what we have at a much cheaper cost, get rid of the abuse and corruption. what makes anyone think that down the road he same thing will not happen.I don't want govt regulating my or my families healthcare, you can see what it has done to medicare. They should never have passed this bill in the state it was in. They should have included all america in the decision making because ALL america will be paying for it for generations to come.This admin has defiantly divided us, remember this if you will, united we stand, divided we fall. Doesn't it bother you that other countries see how divided and weak we look? This country will take years and years to recover and build a unity again.
"you just made an absolutely perfect case for why not to have further socialized govt controlled healthcare."
no i did not, i made a cases that it is hypocritical to expect socialized healthcare and demand to no socialized health care. moreover "further" are you aware 35% of our country receives "socialized medicine and by 2012 it will be over 50%? you cannot provide in its current form , period. either get rid of it or reduce and spread the risk (more socialized medicine)
"if you check your history, republicans fought tooth and nail to keep medicare from becoming law. it became law anyway."
i believe i brought that up. so no i dont need to check my history.
"now you are criticizing republicans for once again trying not to further socialized medicine."
i didnt criticize repubs, only hypocrits, are you implying all tea party supporters are rupub? (i thought they were suppose to be distinctively seperate) or that all tea party members are hypocrits?
"i am disgusted that my children and granchildren will be responsible for paying back the trillions this admin has so frivously spent."
reality - we have been over spending by trillions for years and years (yes thye have recently really cranked it up) as evident by the treasury having to refi 2 trillion in debt this years. thats refi, meaning it was borrowed a very long time ago and thats just the tip.
"i also am disgusted that there is little to no concern for the older people of this country. " little or no concern, we have a system bankrupting us to provide for them. how would a system that shows concern for them look if this doesnt? your argument makes no sense at all. we obviously do. and i'm confused you like socialism to take care of seniors, you dont like socialism at all, its hard to tell your position. (i believe we have had an element of socialism and always will)
"maybe you need to help your parents calc it again. my grandmother, is losing medicare benifits and with the "d" program she has been able to recieve her meds for less than $100 a month(competition). with that gone, she has to purchase additional coverage to afford her meds, which all comes out of her very meager fixed income." this makes no sense in fact it backs up my point. not enough saved= tax payers or "socialist " pay for it. maybe if your such an anti socialist and it is cut, you could pay for it and not rely on socialism to help her. see im very confused you rail against socialism then make an argument for it. you are a situational socialist, thats fine most people are.
"maybe you need to help your parents calc it again. my grandmother, is losing medicare benifits and with the "d" program she has been able to recieve her meds for less than $100 a month(competition). with that gone, she has to purchase additional coverage to afford her meds, which all comes out of her very meager fixed income.paalease, "they knew retirement was a reward for proper planning, not a right to be guarenteed at any cost to their children and granchildren. holy sh8t, democrats just made healthcare a "right" of passage and my children and granchildren will be resaponsible for paying this back." it always has benn, it certain age and now you have socialized medicine. so it has been a right of passage in every sense of the word and you endorse and defend it.
"you made the arguement in favor of conservative aspect of this debacle of a bill." no i did not, a conservative argument would be end all socialized mediicine, ie. as you say the repub tried to. i made a common sense observers argument. you probably should really inventory your opinions and felling before trying to champion an opinion because they are full of insane contradictions.
Martin, medicare was created and made into law by the democrats. It has been a govt funded program going broke. Not everyone was for it, but it became law, requirement to pay into it.There was given no choice. with this newest govt run govt controlled program we have moved another step to socialism which is not what this country is about.kind of like, you can deal with a little salt in your diet, because it is required for taste, but pouring the whole container in your mouth would be unhealthy.we don't want bigger govt. Once a govt program is created, it will never ever go away.angryvoter, when Bush left office, after 2 wars, AIG bailout(approved by the dems)hurricane Katrina, 9-11, it was not quite 2 trillion and 8 years. By the time Obama is gone, in 3 years, it will be 13 trillion, that we will owe China forever.
there is nothing about my post that is contradictory. No more govt run govt funded programs. 20 years from now, dems will be wanting another govt run govt funded program, telling us well we have healthcare, and you utilize it,we don't want it, we are being forced to pay for it. we will be forced to use it, because there will be no competition between private and govt ins. private ins rates will skyrocket, forcing them out of business and every american will be required by law to puchase govt run, govt funded healthcare.what is contradictory about that? you and your party fail to look at the long term picture. Just like this admin, hurry, do it right now, what change can we make for today?
Lipton- I do see your concern I think you may be simplifing the issue a bit though.
"I am totally baffled at how democrats say the medicare program is broke, there is abuse of funds, there is corruption, therefore, we are going to starve them of funds"
Baffled at how they can say the system is broke? Its beyond broke and for anyone to suggest abuse or corruption is the cause (of course it exists, it exists in where ever money can be stolen) is just plain silly, it is costs and demographics tht caused the failure and lack of adequate contributions to meet benefits.
"create a whole new govt run govt controlled program, didn't anybody learn from the first go round? Fix what we have at a much cheaper cost, get rid of the abuse and corruption." Thats what this is about , controling cost and increasing revenue to pay expenses. It doesnt create a new system it addresses medicare we have and hopes it can address expenditures. (althought the expansion may very well just become as big a mess if history is any guide)
"I don't want govt regulating my or my families healthcare, you can see what it has done to medicare." i'm confused, it is good enough for seniors, in fact they fight pretty hard for gov controlled health care,(and you defended it for them) yet its not good enough for you or your family? (they already regulate it and it is not gov controlled in this bill, despite what the fear mongers say)
We are a republic and the elected officials voted on it by majority. (with a bit of procedural jockeying) We can throw them out if we dont like it. I dont think it will be the watershed election many people think it will be.
We already were divided by a system set to bankrupt the country by beneficiaries who refuse to admit cuts need to be made. Thats what they are protesting, dont you get it. There was no rage when benefits were increased only when they think they are losing some benefits.
"Doesn't it bother you that other countries see how divided and weak we look?"
No it doesnt, no one is saying look they are fighting about insurance lets hurt them. In fact they are saying look at them spend money like drunk sailors and the house of financial cards they built may be in big trouble.
If it so horrible for private the health care industry why has their value continued to rise???
You are right about the massive spending creating a problem, but this bill is chump change compared to the unfettered growth of medicare related debt coming at us and the crazy discretionary spending>
i'm confused, it is good enough for seniors, in fact they fight pretty hard for gov controlled health care,(and you defended it for them) yet its not good enough for you or your family? (they already regulate it and it is not gov controlled in this bill, despite what the fear mongers say)
Never said it was good enough for seniors. They have been required to pay for it, it may be all they have, it is a little late in life for them to consider the changes.
Lets liken it to this: when you are young chosing a career,a responsible young person would think about growth, promotion opportunities, insurance coverage for their family, retirement programs to choose from(ex:401K) etc. 5 years from retirement their co goes belly up, and they get fired. Their outline for their old age coverage is gone.It has nothing to do with its good enough for them but not my family. It was never good enough, but it was required by law. they planned on it, they paid into it, they expected it, and bam, fired.
It isn't as simple as them saying look, they are fighting over ins. Haven't you noticed the definite division in this country? There value is rising because of all the media attention, right at the moment, watch their value when this bill takes affect. Medicare, over time, has become corrupt, govt has allowed the abuse of its funds, kind of like our state govt. and all the hoopla over firemen abusing the system, they won't starve them of funds, they will continue to allow the abuse because they have set the standard. Bigger govt, doesn't mean it will be better for you.
Lipton--"you and your party fail to look at the long term picture. Just like this admin, hurry, do it right now, what change can we make for today?"
What do you know about me and my party? I havent said I am any party, I have only criticized hypocritic postions, are you implying only a demcrat would attack hypocrites? (you give them too much credit if so)
"with this newest govt run govt controlled program we have moved another step to socialism" soooo we do what about the socialist program you defend? What is the solution other than cutting cost via benefits (you already said you dont like your grandmother solving a private problem with private solutions, you want the socialist solution to take care of it) Really how do you fix it?
"No more govt run govt funded programs. 20 years from now, dems will be wanting another govt run govt funded program," that the very contradiction i am speaking of you defend a socialist program from cuts yet rail agianst socialism and government controlled healthcare (which medicare is) How do you solve it, and do not use some weak bs, cut abuse because that is not the source of the problem.
"because there will be no competition between private and govt ins. private ins rates will skyrocket, forcing them out of business and every american will be required by law to puchase govt run, govt funded healthcare.what is contradictory about that?" A it is contradictory because you defend governemnt run health care for some. B) there will be competition, thats is why private insurance companies value has been increasing, yippeee free customer subsidized by the tax payer. (bs argument) C)sky rocketing insurance rates , no they will not, and the whole preexisting condition argument is poor. They already cover preexisting in any group policy and by making up for uuninsured people with preexisting conditons by adding it to your policy.
Are you aware over 35% of the population is on socialized medicine now (medicare/medicaid) and will by over 50% by 2012. How does that shift from private to socialist not cripple private companies by taking customers into a socialist program?
Can anyone tell me what exactly is racist about the Obama joker poster?
Obama's half black, yes, but I still don't see the racism. Also, was it racist when Vanity Fair published the picture of Bush as the joker in July 2008?
I don't see how it's racist in either case, as it is a representation of their policies that people are depicting, and has nothing whatsoever to do with skin color.
I would love an intelligent answer on this from those that find it racist. Birdie, if you could put together a coherent explanation that would be great!
I see the Obama Zombies have been deployed !
martin, I think I'm through arguing this with you, I will do this one last time, get it or don't get it,you follow the same rheteric as every other dem never getting it at all. party affiliation? I have read your ridicule on other threads.
defend socialistic program? I defend the older people that have paid into your socialistic program for years, and they should get what they planned for, paid for and expected to get, I don't defend the plan, which deflects all the rest of your arguement. I don't defend bigger govt, or bigger got run, govt funded programs that put us closer to total socialism, I don't defend nor do I want, the govt lying to the people tell us they did this for the people, they did this for their political history making aganda, if they cared about americans, they would have created a plan that ALL americans want, not just democrats, and of course only the democrats think its the best thing since sliced bread.Don't twist my words, don't make it sound as though I'm saying one thing but mean another, you just don't get it, and yes, I think you are a democrat or at least the liberal side of democrat. Do I assume something that may not be true? WOW, is it kind of like the pot calling the kettle (whisper)whats that word? don't want to be accused of being a racist because I said that color or something, which is why I think the big B-Ho needs to change the name of the white house, to either, green house or out house, shall we take a vote? wait, only repubs get to vote on this, and dems get to live with it., but you get to pay for the new paint.
Henderson- I dont see the "racist" connection either.
"Joker" has been used to insult for a long time how is it suddenly damning proof of racism?
I honestly think that now that we have a President that is half-black, libs feel like they can just randomly deem anything racist whether it applies or not. I'm so sick of that word. It's so tired and old.
lipton, I will try this one last time. I get everything you have said including your hypocritical views and inability to defend them. "SS contributions from your paychecks will be going up as well!!your other govt run, govt funded program thats broke." again you know nothing about my affiliation. At all you are just a little hurt man, who cant admit you love socialism that benefits you or apparently your grandmother. I never said thats bad, I said dont be a hypocrite you like socialized medicine for some. Period no arguing that, you have admitted that. (nothing wrong with that, just admit what you are defending)
"I defend the older people that have paid into your socialistic program for years, and they should get what they planned for, paid for and expected to get," well hate to tell you Lipton they didnt pay for it or it wouldnt be such a money pit and they did pay for part "d" enacted in 2006, which you apparently like because you complained about your grandmother having to pay additional for meds if it is lost (social solution to her private problem"
"I don't defend bigger govt, or bigger got run, govt funded programs that put us closer to total socialism, " yes you do you like part "d" to have the tax payer pay for your grandmother medicine. You said so your self. "I think you are a democrat or at least the liberal side of democrat." No I am not, I am simply calling a duck a duck, and I dont need to twist your words, your logic does that for you. You are a situational socialist, fact, you are.
Oh ya sure let's toss out 200+ years of progress and go back to wigs and pooping in wood boxes outback. What a bunch of walmart trailer trash idiots these people are. The fact many of them support the Military speaks volumes.
"you're not naive enough to think we live in a Democracy, are you pal?"
Again I am not a democrat but you are obviously so blinded by your to a political party you act like a sports fan just blindly debating, go team go. You admit medicare is bankrupting us, yet defend it form reductions or increases to pay for it. How do you propose to fix, why cant you answer that simple question? How is it not a socialist program? Why would you suggest as you put it "someone who worked 40 years" (and had forty years to plan for their retirement, during the most prosperous period in the most prosperous country in history) at the expense of someone raising a family who may not be able to afford it for their own kids?
You are a socialist, you defined yourself, saying if the tax payer stops paying for your grandmothers medicine she will have to pay more and you dont want that. Why cant you pay for it? Because you like socialism that benefits those you want it to benefit. Its amazing to see a seemingly intelligent person refuse to admit facts. You like socialized medicine for elder, but not yourself.
Again how do you fix it dont cry socialist or democrat or I believe in taking care of the elderly, tells us how to do it. And even better why socialized medicine is ok for them? I am not twisting your words. Your logic does that all on its own, you are rightfully concerned about the direction we are heading in yet fail to acknowledge or even define issues correctly, just regurgitate ":governemant control" "socialism"
medicare, forced upon the american people,you must pay into this govt run, govt funded program. dependency: exactly what the govt run, govt funded programs expect to happen, dependent on the govt to take care of you. hypocracy:after years of dependency on this program, govt says, we are going to cut your program back, people cry please don't cut the program, we depend on it, oooohhh, but you don't want socialized medicine but you defend your old program,but wait, you forced me to depend on it, then call me a hypocrit, because now you want to take it away? that is hypocracy, control, socialism if I ever saw it. find a better fight to fight. Don't force the people to become dependent on a program then call them hypocrits when you take it away.they say its for your good, when it really is for govt control, they could care less whether you have insurance or not, it has never been a right of passage, it has been a privilege to have. its one step closer to socialism and more govt control. "bigger government"
Anyone who would seriously listen to Sarah Palin needs to question their own sanity. The former Governor of Alaska didn't know the difference between North and South Korea last summer. Serioulsy!? She reminds me an annoying co-worker who hides behind her looks, thinks she knows everything but is clueless.
HAHA wow you are hysterical, calm down tak a deep breath. A) No one is taking away medicare, it will benefits will be reduced, period. People have has supplemental insurance policies for years ( and you thought your "grandmother" (whom I actually suspect is you) may have to get one)Yes when there is no money - there is no more money , cost need to be contained. No one promised a never ending parade of benefits even at the risk of bankrupting us. Cost will be controlled. Youre really funny, your moan about increased costs and taxes due to this bill for yourself, yet the bulk of those additional cost are going to shore up medicare. (hence the expansion) but dontthink their needs t obe cuts. By the way , they didnt pay for part "d" (your big concern) comrade.
"but you don't want socialized medicine but you defend your old program,but wait, you forced me to depend on it, then call me a hypocrit, because now you want to take it away? that is hypocracy, control, socialism if I ever saw it."
I never siad I do or dont want "socialized medicine" you confusingly said it is but are against socialism. (wow you are confused, I think it all steams from your refusal to admit you support socialized medicine for seniors) No ONE has eversaid it is being taken away dont be so hysterical. Are you saying A) it doesnt need reductions B) There is not a need to pump money into it C) both?????? Make a real statement rather than stop socialisn, no wait dont, but it isnt nevermind it is. No one "made them dependent on it" supplemental policy are available and will be used much more. No one sure made you or excuse me your grandmother "depend" on a prescription plan during her working years. NO ONE IS TAKING IT AWAY OR ADVOCATING THAT COMRADE!!!!!!!!! It is just amazing to see people who receive socialized medicine and get so hysterical at the thought of it being taken away, fight "socialism" Really funny all emotionally based. You cant even decide if you like socialized medicine or not you do but you dont. You really need to re-evaluate why you are against this and come up with a cohesive argument. Wow, you are a mess.
I know exactly what I'm about, I would venture a guess that reading something into comments that isn't there is very exausting for you. I give you this, it takes a real talent to take a comment such as, if you pay for it, you should recieve it, into I'm a closet lover of socialistic medicine. youza!!!!! I can't keep chasing you through that maze you are running through!!!! have a great day.
Its no maze, you have created a maze in your mind. Its very simple. Medicare is a socialized medicine program, would you agree?
Is it hypocritical for someone benefiting from "socialized medicine" to claim to be fighting "socialism"? My point was that simple, and it is. And it takes a real desire to ignore reality that A) no one paid for this level of benefit, period. Fact, indisputable. Otherwise it would be this broke.
How you turn that into taking away medicare is beyond me.
B) They did not pay for the prescription drug benefit, it was passed in 2003 and enacted in 2006. Bush buying seniors re-election votes.
You have said nothing other than you dont want socialized medicine, but you do for some: taken cut cost and equated that to get rid of medicare; said your grandmother deserves socialized prescription but no one else does (why???): admitted it is bankrupting us, yet offered not solution (and oppose cost cuts and funding increases) The only maze here is the one you have created by acknowledging you are for (in the case of seniors) and against (for your self) socialized medicine.
It very simple either it is socialized medicine or it isnt. Of course it is only a fool can argue it isnt. Argue the merits or lack of with this "bill" dont just scream socialism and ignore the 800 pound socialist gorilla in the room. Also realize, cost cuts and increased taxes in this "bill" as well as, increased "insured" are an attempt to keep medicare solvent. It really is that simple, is it a good fix, who knows? The whole IRS enforcement is pretty dam heavy handed.
A)medicare is socialized medicine. fighting against more soialized medicine, the ones we have are broke.
B) the reason Bush passed that bill was competition for affordable meds, the date is not the point, point is it was affordable, now its going away.
don't defend the bill, defend the people who have been forced to depend on it.
C) solution: no additional socialized medicine, govt do what they are suppose to be doing and govern what is established,get rid of the corruption, and the abuse of funds.
D) once govt has created a program it can't be eliminated, so, we are stuck with the ones we have, we don't want anymore.
E)govt won't fix the problems, they will create a bigger govt healthcare plan, starve the existing ones and people will become even more dependent on the bigger govt.
F) thats the crux for me, no confusion, no wishy washy.
more taxes to keep it solvent? so the abuse of funds and corruption can get bigger? and where did I say my grandma deserves socialized medicine but no one else does?
whole point is, we already have this program, that has proven to fail over time, we don't want bigger govt, with MORE socialized healthcare.especially one that was written in the dark and passed with sweetheart deals for votes,no one knows whats in it, that illegals will be covered, that abortions will be paid for and Harrys clause that it can never ever be amended.the spend, spend tax,tax phylosophy will keep us in debt for ever, the more they tax us, the more they spend.
At the risk of all you deciding to uses me as a verbal punching bag, I am going to explain why personally I do support the new health care bill, despite the fact I receive Medicare benefits.
Almost 17 years ago I became disabled and was unable to work, with losing my job I lost my medical insurance. I fought with my deteriorating health to try to continue working. I wanted desperately to continue supporting myself, I wanted to help support my children myself; I did not want to be on any public assistance program, or disability. I still do not; returning to my previous work was not an option.
So I have time and time again tried to work through the system seeking training for another line of work. Each time I have been only offered "training" for minimum wage jobs, with no medical benefits, or told go home and enjoy the time with my children (I only have 2 children btw and the second was conceived while using two forms of birth control, so save the having a pack of kids comments). Every time I walked away frustrated and discouraged, I love my children and the time I spent at home with them, I did not waste it. I cooked homemade meals, taught them science, history, and a love of nature and music. Yet, I also wanted to help provide a better life for them, by example. I would not have had an issue with reentering the work force at a minimum wage position but for two facts I have to keep in mind.
1. Working for minimum wage would have equaled far less money in my household, in effect taking away from my children. To which my now ex-husband repeatedly pointed out was selfishness on my part. Not only would my children not have a mother available 24/7 but I would be taking away from their quality of live. (Please lets all not go into what kind of man he is there are many reasons he is an ex and in my youth and ignorance I choose him, I tried to make the best of it.)
2.My youngest child was born with a chemical imbalance for which his medications alone would cost over $2000 a month. Any job I take that earns over a certain amount a month will cause him to lose his medical benefits. He cannot stop taking his medications.
Getting a decent education in a field where I will make a fair wage and have a job, I have already taken steps to deal with on my own. When I have completed my education I will earn a decent living not wealthy but middle class. Yes I will have student loans to pay back, and I have no issue with that, it is worth the interest rates even if they go up to have the ability to work and provide for myself. The healthcare reform bill will allow me to also go back to work while I am also working on my degree, it will allow me to pay for insurance for my child and not be on damned disability. I have hated the choice of work and let my child suffer without or stay home and try over and over again to get approved for a reentry training program that will actually allow me to earn a living wage. This bill means more taxes, I welcome the freedom to be able to work and pay those taxes. I welcome the freedom to not have to choose myself esteem or my child's needs. I welcome that I will not retire until perhaps in my 80's or 90's. If you think I am alone in being in this position think again. I will gladly work and pay for others to have more choices and for them to have more choices in providing medical options.
The Joker poster is racist... hmmm... but wasn't the Joker white? I don't get the racist thing...
Oh and the Hutaree extremists in Michigan are not members of the Michigan Militia. Also why are Militias always categorized as right wing. Che led a militia and he was obviously not right wing, Castro led a militia and was obviously not right wing, Lenin led a militia and was obviously not right wing... I still have yet to hear a single bit of the Hutaree's political philosophy. Ok, yeah, they are Christians but does that make them right wing? I would think that Christians would have a tendency to be more left wing, just simply because the teachings of most Christian churches are all about collecting from those who can and giving to those who can't.
All I know is that when I read a gutter of a comment line like this I realize that it is more about internalized hate than actual political philosophy. Most of these commenters would be nothing without someone to point the finger at. Maybe some of us should point that finger back at ourselves and look at what's wrong there first.
Birdie can never answer a question. She can spew out stuff, but will never answer a question.
Why do you claim the joker poster is racist birdie? How can it be racist when they did it to Bush?
There is absolutely not racist about the tea party, as far as that goes, what about what Harry Reid said about obama. I am a Black American, an I support the Tea Party movement, many blacks that I know also support this movement.
pmontg,
I'm sorry pmont, the democrats say that if your black you have to be democrat! So....no tea party for you!
Just kidding! I have personally attended 2 tea parties, and I have to say there were people of every race and social class. They want everyone to believe that the tea parties are KKK rallies. They just can't stop trying to draw the racial divide....it's all they got.
Oh! Not only every race and social class, how about sexual orientation? I'm trying to remember the group at the last tea party....I think they were "Lesbians for Liberty" or something like that! Guess what, nobody tried to light them on fire either! Go figure!
Lipton-
A) fair enough, it is socialized medicine and you dont want more, it is really broken and I believe it is hypocritical for people receiving it to claim they want to stop socialized medicine.
B)"the reason Bush passed that bill was competition for affordable meds"- you cant possibly believe that! It was a added on freebie.
"the date is not the point," the is the entire point of my question. It is and has been a broken system he added a huge new "socialized" entitlement and yet their was no protest or rage about that? Why? Many of these people didnt mind socialized medicine then did they?
"point is it was affordable," for who?? 2009 to 2018 it carries a projected cost of $747 billion
never mind previous 2 years or following years, you call that affordable?
You seem to believe someone is saying to eliminate medicare.
Your solution is to fix this mess is "C) solution: no additional socialized medicine, govt do what they are suppose to be doing and govern what is established,get rid of the corruption, and the abuse of funds." And add do not believe it requires more money to keep its current benefits let alone survive.
Sorry, no disrespect but you are not even qualified to discuss this with. If you think stopping "abuse and waste" will solve the problem. How naive can you be? 35% of the population uses these programs now and will be 50% 2012 , its already broke so you see no need for increased funding for an almost 50% increase in users, never mind inflation. Please dont even respond you unfortunately do not even remotely grasp the problem.
The teabaggers are the craziest bunch of
lunitics on the face of the earth.
We can be thankful that they are the minority
in this country.
Sarah, "Hand Jive" Palin, is a complete joke.
"Movement organizers are adept at using the Internet to publicize their events, but the venue had no visible booths for candidates and grass-roots groups, and no one seemed to be collecting names, telephone numbers or e-mail addresses for later use."
Peek behind the curtain and the Tea Party is a vehicle for Sal Russo and Dick Armey to make money hand over fist, not a true grassroots movement. At least 75% of Partiers came from other states, mostly Arizona and California. They won't be donating time or treasure to the Nevada GOP.
There are not just conservatives at the tea parties. I hate to break it to you but there are democrats, libertarians, independents, and people that have never before been active in politics.
When is the last time 10,000 lefties assembled
to peacefully support their political principles (lol)?
This is not the first Tea Party to attract these numbers.
One of my wife's & I's favorite hobbies is to spot a black person in a Tea Party Rally. We haven't found one yet. It is just as fun when I use to play Find the Black Republican during the Ronald Reagan Era.
You and your wife sound incredibly boring.