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The floor of Casino MonteLago sits mostly empty on its final afternoon on Sunday. The casino’s closure is a result of the Ritz-Carlton’s announcement that it will close May 2.
Monday, March 15, 2010 | 1:50 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Lake Las Vegas: A shining lakeside oasis loses its luster (3-1-2010)
- Population dearth doomed Casino MonteLago at Lake Las Vegas (3-1-2010)
- Casino MonteLago at Lake Las Vegas to close next month (2-16-2010)
- Ritz-Carlton Lake Las Vegas to close in May (2-8-2010)
- Current, past owners spar in Lake Las Vegas bankruptcy case (9-21-2009)
- Lake Las Vegas proposes bankruptcy plan (9-5-2009)
- Judge approves bankruptcy for Lake Las Vegas golf course (6-29-2009)
- Another golf course to close at struggling Lake Las Vegas (6-25-2009)
- Lenders seek control of Lake Las Vegas hotel (6-4-2009)
- Ritz-Carlton bought amid financial woes (3-24-2009)
- Residents of bankrupt Lake Las Vegas face uncertainty (3-23-2009)
- Lake Las Vegas can abandon golf course, judge says (1-15-2009)
- Resort golf course’s fate spurs debate (12-16-2008)
- Bridge over troubled water (5-24-2008)
- Casino MonteLago swaps managers (6-17-2007)
- Grand opening set for new Lake Las Vegas casino (5-7-2003)
- Ritz-Carlton Lake Las Vegas spa and golf resort opens (2-11-2003)
The cheerful Irish music piped through the shops at Lake Las Vegas belied the gloom inside Casino MonteLago, which was set to close at midnight Sunday.
More than 170 people were expected to lose their jobs as a result of the closure.
The casino’s owner, CIRI Lakeside Gaming Investors LLC, announced the closing Feb. 16. It was a result of the Ritz-Carlton at Lake Las Vegas announcing it would close its doors May 2.
“It’s going to be bad for the community,” said Jean Bevolo, 63, of Las Vegas, who was playing slots at Casino MonteLago on Sunday. “I don’t see how these businesses are going to last.”
Bevolo said she visits Lake Las Vegas about three times a month, mainly to enjoy the atmosphere and get away from the Strip. Bevolo said she hopes Lake Las Vegas will bounce back, but said that could be tough during the recession.
Lake Las Vegas is in bankruptcy and is burdened with $728 million in liabilities. The 3,600-acre development about 17 miles from the Strip includes more than 1,700 residential units in addition to its hotels, restaurants and shops.
“It’s kind of far away from everything,” said Brent Peshina, 34, of Las Vegas. “The sad thing is that if you don’t live out here, there’s nothing to draw people out here.”
Peshina said he goes to the stores at Lake Las Vegas with his kids when visiting his in-laws, who live at the development.
Las Vegas resident Yvonne Jay, who sells real estate, said she thought someone would buy the Casino MonteLago and reopen it. Business might be down now, but Lake Las Vegas won’t become a ghost town, she said.
“Enjoy the peace and quiet for awhile,” she said. “It’s going to bounce back … Life goes in cycles.”
No one from Casino MonteLago was available Sunday to discuss the closure.
Many business owners, like Victor Perez, said they think the development will be sustainable even without the Casino MonteLago and Ritz-Carlton. Perez opened Sonrisa Grill in 2008.
“I look around at other villages. Is there a casino in those villages?” he asked.
Perez said businesses at Lake Las Vegas will persevere because it isn’t just about casinos – it’s a community, he said. Perez said he thinks people don’t just come to the area to gamble – they come to eat and relax.
Lori Jo Klemptner, who co-owns Mishegoss and Flights of Fancy with her husband, Jim Hodge, said although the closure is bad news, recent media coverage of Lake Las Vegas has helped to bring first-time visitors to the area.
“We have two stores, and we have every intention of staying open,” she said. “We don’t want to move. This is the best place to be.”
Mixed outlooks?
I suppose the asteroid that hit Earth and wiped out the dinosaurs also brought "mixed outlooks" as the mammals rose to take their place. But then again that took millions of years.
False hope, sorry to say. All of these businesses depend on foot traffic, and visitors in volume, seven days each week, fifty weeks each year. It is not, has not, and will not happen.
We all cry when a casino closes. Get real! All they care about is your money. As far as the employees, oh buh huh, they get a severance package and unemployment insurance. It is not like they spent any of there own money to develope the property. All they spend is there gas money to go there and make money. I am sure they can spend there gas money and go make money somewhere else. But that of course will not be until they have completely exhausted all there unemployment benefits...
realitychecker is right. I heard on the news this morning that the Census Bureau cannot find near enough people to conduct the Census in the Las Vegas area. With 13% unemployment I cannot imagine this happening. Maybe the UI benefits are too long.
Actually, Casino Monte Lago had very good food, reasonably priced, especially compared to the Strip. Their machines were tight, but better than the Strip, too and comparable to the stinker places on Boulder Highway.
It was all about location, location. I'd be surprised if it reopens in the next few years.
Bye, bye, CML. I'll miss the employees the most. Janice, Garth, Nan, the Bulgarians, Josh, Nina, Rosie, Coo coo Kelly, Russell, Gianni and so many more. Even that frequent flier Dina.
"Not good, Kemo Sabe." Bye, bye all.
you simply have got to love the fight in these lake las vegas folks...
like our friend bouvier...
holy cow...
i'll tell you one thing...
if i was ever in a death match...
i would definitely want these guys at my side...
go get 'em tigers...
fight fight fight...
win win win...
i wish you nothing but the best!!!
With 13% unemployment I cannot imagine this happening. Maybe the UI benefits are too long.
You do realize, jlb101, that when you work ANY kind of job while on unemployment, it is deducted from your unemployment. It all comes out the same though regardless. Maybe people don't realize that and think if they take the temp job with the Census, they will loose their unemployment. Or then again - they may just too lazy to go out there and make upwards of $15 an hour for anywhere between 3 to 6 weeks. It's seems like a pretty damn easy temp job!
Turn the whole place into a movie set / studio!
Someone mentioned to me that none of the retail stores are paying rent. Owners want these people there so it doesn't become a "real" ghost town.
I don't see it coming back anytime soon. The problem will be upkeep and decay. I already noticed the last time I was there that the upkeep was marginal (garbage strewn, plants dying)...next will be the buildings.
It may come back at some point, but a lot of work will need to be done 5-10 years down the road.
I dont know about the easy deal that census job is in Cities.Going door to door in the "hood" could be dangerous,plus 100 degree heat,not for everybody.Bring lots of water and a gun.
You're not going to get enough people to "drive out" there for the day and wander around hoping to spend money they don't have. It's too far out. How do you think ghost towns get started? The business drives up first and the few remaining stragglers hang on "hoping" it will get better. That eventually becomes too much to bare and the whole thing collapses. If people aren't coming to Vegas they aren't going to go drive out to LLV and there's not enough locals to support it, especially with that kind of debt load...holy crap.
Best of luck to the employees at CML, they always had a smile when we went in. On to better things......
this development is a poster child for the easy credit induced housing/credit bubble. This will continue down for several more years--still way overpriced for east trailer park henderson! Nice place to build some low income rental units!
@green -
I love how you pretend that Lake Las Vegas is a fortnight's trek from civilization. It's 25-30 min flat from McCarran, 15-20 min from Eastern, and 45-50 min from Summerlin on the complete other side of the city. BTW, good luck getting from McCarran to Summerlin in 30 min.
We are on the west coast, everything is a drive. Ever been one of a million cars on the 405 (or the 5, or the 101, or any LA freeway for that matter)? The answer is no since you would not think Lake Las Vegas is a land far, far away. And, if you have, you should start taking your ginko because Vegas has better thoroughfares than nearly every city of its size, nationwide. It's because we're newer than nearly every other city, with newer planners, newer materials, newer technologies.
Lake Las Vegas has never tried to go head-to-head with the Strip. It has always been an alternative. Just had breakfast at the Loews this morning. There were at least 8 sets of young/young-ish families dining, and the main dining room was 80% full.
The problems with Lake Las Vegas are not the concept. The real heart of the issue is mismanagement on a giant scale. Transcontinental Corp takes $540M and runs (think of how different things for LLV would be right now with +$540M). Credit Suisse puppets Fred Chin & Jim Coyne have run their Chapter 11 filing for about as long as possible, supposedly submitting their plan to emerge (finally!) this April/May. Also, they foreclose on both public golf courses. Further, they release a fictitious statement that "the lake could drain unless the courts approve a $127M Deutsche Bank capital contribution" in mid-2008. Later, they recant and contend that the lake would not have drained, but that they wanted to put pressure on the courts to approve the loan. The casino has ALWAYS been mismanaged beyond belief! Uhh, let's take about 1,500 square feet away from the casino floor and build a "convention room" in a resort with ample convention space. Are you kidding me? That's Gaming 101.
Sure, the place would be having problems just like everyone else in this economy. But, competent managers would have left the area far less injured.
Lake Las Vegas is OVER! HISTORY! Drain it and fergit about it!!!
What a surprise! Yet another slanted, half- sided report from the Yellow Reporting Las Vegas Sun! Yahoo!!!! Just what we all need, yay!!!! Wasn't this all discussed to exhaustion in the other terribly biased reports by Amanda Finnegans a few weeks ago.
It's so funny how you can provide factual black and white information over and over and over and over and over again, yet the same peanut gallery commentors here still say the same non-factual things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Blonde in GV-right on.
TomD1228, there is simply no garbage anywhere in LLV nor is the village is dis-repair. Not true. Why don't you post some photos of this alleged garbage and dis-repair? As far as dead plants, if you haven't noticed, it is still winter!Some plants go dormant in the winter.
Enjoy the awesome weather forcasted this week everyone!!! Maybe some of it should be spent in a boat on a lake? :)
artswanson, I could actually vision all that.. Thats funny...
artswanson, let's have some silence regarding Bouvier. He simply is a believer that LLV will return to its glory. I was at the Monte Lago weepfest last evening, and I swear I saw his image on one of the fake kegs of wine overhead.
Best of luck, Bouvier.
SORRY TO HEARR ABOUT THE CLOSING AND PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS. WE USE TO VISIT VEGAS ALOT BUT ONCE THE CHANGE CAME WE QUIT COMING. THE FUN USE TO BE THE CHEAP MEALS AND FREE COMS. THEN IT WENT INTO THE HIGH END WITH HIGH COST OF EVERYTHING EVEN THE MEALS. THE FUN WAS GONE. WHY CHANGE A GOOD THING? ALL FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY
Wow, Art...I don't even need to point out how moronic you sound anymore. You do such a fine job of making your own 600-thread count-lined bed of crazy drivel.
No matter how much you will it to happen, the lake is going nowhere. And, therefore, the Lake Las Vegas community is going nowhere either.
Just the day before this article was written the Village was packed with over 2,500 people for the spring beer festival. The hotels were at over 80% occupancy. These are just the facts.
Channel 8 was here ALL DAY. Fox 5 was here too. A few images must have crossed the eyeballs of some of the LLV haters. But I see the usual remain firm in their delusion that all is lost or should be at LLV.
Message to the Sun: Come out and cover the Easter Egg hunt. Come see the kids, parents, some fishing, dining, strolling. There will be over 5,000 here. Put down the ax you are grinding. Come on out and have some fun for a change.
Hopefully the lake won't be polluted with dead fish (reported in RJ last week) by Easter.
Coming home to Lake Las Vegas is an incredible feeling. Turning in to the area and seeing before you the mountains, the lake, the magnificent landscaping and hearing nothing but birds chirping takes your breath away and certainly is medicine for the soul. Where else in this city can you feel that? Reading all the negative comments I can only assume that these negative people don't get that feeling wherever they are living. I'm sorry.
bouvier, god bless your positive outlook. artswanson, absolutely hilarious material, i could read it all day.
@woobert -
If you had read the entire article in the LVRJ on the 6th, you would know that the naturally-occurring algae should run its entire course by the end of the month, at worst.
Hey, Bouvier, did you notice that bdover/NedNugget [sic] is back? He must've gotten a bus pass to get to the library! Mazel, Ben - er, bdover - er, NedNougat!
Art you are going to make BLONDEinGV blow a gasket!
Oh, little man, Art.
I am one super-fun broad! And, your "light in the loafers" comment really shows both your age & bigotry. It's okay, you know not what you type, Simple Art.
Also, the comments you make "carefully watch the outcome of the BK...valuations on the residential & commercial properties" doesn't make any sense. Once the BK exit proposal is approved, that will actually improve the values of residential & commercial properties in LLV. That's how BKs work, my little friend. And, the financial institutions involved are Credit Suisse & Deutsche Bank, each with A+ S&P credit ratings. So, Simple Art, what are you talking about?
The "whole mess" as you call it, is not going anywhere. Go ahead and tell me how the lake is going to disappear when all 1,800 homeowners pay $105 per month toward its maintenance & upkeep. In case your calculator's broken, that's $2.268M per year, not including the subsidy contractually required from Credit Suisse for future phases of development.
That's right, FUTURE phases of development. Like nails on a chalkboard to your MiracleEars. As long as the lake is around, the fat lady will not sing. Every single day there are fewer and fewer foreclosures in Lake Las Vegas. And, please spare me of your soothsaying about how there will be so many more because of the Ritz/CML closures. Because, according to the data, there were actually more NET sales in Lake Las Vegas during the 2 weeks following the announcements when compared to the 2 weeks prior to the announcements. It isn't scaring people because the assets are there. The buildings are exceptional (can you count all five diamonds?) and the locations are superb. Much to your dismay, there are some very deep pockets interested in owning the only casino and a 5-diamond hotel (and possibly both golf courses) in a resort destination that can be purchased for nickels on the dollar. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand the meaning of opportunity.
Right on bouvier and maggiellv. Its obvious that these llv haters have lots of problems. The easy drive from the airport to the oasis is great. Everyone that comes out to visit me love the place and the drive out. We get to the lake quicker than getting to the casinos on the strip. Two of them are looking to buy places in llv now. The prices are affordable and they like the area much better that other areas of the valley because of traffic and how easy it is to get to. The girls love having the mall and all of the stores less than 10 minutes away and no heavy traffic to get there. We all want the quiet and the beauty. We could care less about the Ritz. The new owners will lower prices and will probably attract more visitors because of lowering prices and create jobs. We don't have to have a casino that close to have a good time. We're only 10 minutes from the Fiesta and Sunset Station. If we get tires of admiring the beautiful views of the mountains, we head down to see the girlie card flippers, the bums begging on the strip and sniff the toxic air from the cabs. How I love that smell. All of my friends can't believe how great las vegas is by getting off of the strip. They have gotten caught up in the routine of flying in and taking a cab to the strip. They didn't realize there was anything else. They love it. We come to play golf and enjoy the great food. Don't care to go anywhere else. Would much rather be in llv that in the phoenix-scottsdale area. To all of the happy llv people, enjoy the best spot in the valley. If I wasn't happy with my life, I would try to make it better rather than try to trash someone elses setbacks. The problems in llv will be temporary and we will probably be better off in the long run. llv is great
BLONDE in GV.....you go girl! Thank you for your intelligent and accurate posting and especially for putting a little man in his place.
frommidwest....agree with you 100%. Happy you're in the neighborhood!
blondeingv--you were also included in my comments. You are right on. I have only been in llv one year and I love it. Wouldn't trade it for anything out here. Quiet and beautiful.
really sad to see all the buried "investors" upside down 70% and still patting each other on the back about what a great thing they bought---GOOD JOB buying those overpriced stucco boxes. Must be alot of "owner-realtor" sleaze types posting about this issue. Lots of potential! the closed golf courses are real fixer uppers! Scenic drive thru trailer trash east henderson! hahahahaha--not funny really--just sad.
Sorry Mr Lucky. I got a great deal. I don't think Green Valley is trailer trash. I see a lot of trailer trash all over the valley. Sorry, you must have buried yourself and can't see your way out. Why would you post those kind of comments if you weren't angry. Its hard to be upside down 70% when you buy at 25 % of original cost. By the way, I see some great golf courses surrounded by trailers, but the way I look at it, those people are living their dream and I hope that is their start to success.
Be positive.
Actually, I've seen a decrease in traffic into LLV starting Monday, today. No more rabid gamblers hitting the machines and the tables. No more drunks wandering in the marketplace from the casino. Nobody home. Just peace and quiet. Nice.
Sort of a Norman Rockwell masterpiece. Nothing going on, no reason to worry, just occasional bowel movements to get you off the recliner. LLV is heaven on earth, well, maybe Purgatory. Best of luck, LLV residents, look out over the yellow golf courses, and thank God that you live in such a nice place.
The census workers they have a hard time getting are BILINGUAL people. Also people willing to go into the dangerous parts of cities. It's not just Spanish speakers they need. In some areas out east 40% speak RUSSIAN. There are enclaves of Vietnamese, Hmong, and others scattered around the country. Enough of this garbage about Americans are too lazy to work. Get the full story or shut your pie hole.
Hey Blonde, Maggie, Bovier, Frommidwest, let's meet at the Pub for a beer, how about St Patrick's Wednesday...
ArtSwanson, after I unfortunately had to read your latest comments, I believe you are probably the foulest person on this planet. (but I'm sure you enjoy always being the vinegar and are probably on staff at the LVSun) If you notice, nobody agrees with you and the few people who do are probably your own aliases, just agreeing with yourself. Of course, you say the same exact thing on EVERY post you have ever made, you're just not believable, kinda like the boy that cries negative. I'm not sure why you waste so much of your time and energy on something that doesn't really concern you. You're not making this world a better place.
Thanks to all the LLV supporters who are now posting!! MaggieLLV, I know exactly what you mean, that awesome feeling as you drive down the parkway and watch the beauty unfold all the way into the village. It's like no place, well, anywhere! BTW, aren't some of the most expensive zip codes in California adjacent to some of the worst? (ie the comments about the drive through Henderson, which will soon be widened and landscaped)
I'll be back in LLV at the end of April, we should have a big "Exit from Bankruptcy" celebration at the Irish Pub. I heard the Beerfest was a HUGE success and the St Patty's Day is going to be big too!
We need to start posting our own LLV photos on our profiles here for the world to see. A picture is worth 1000 words! Make sure the time/date stamp is on!
BlondeinGV, you rock! Now, I await your response!
Well, TINY, simple, LITTLE Art, you got one thing right: I am a pretty cheap drunk. It's something my incredibly hot, alpha-male husband thinks is adorable about me...among many other things. I would go on about how I'm younger, cuter, and needless to say, MUCH smarter than anyone you could ever hope to be in the company of. But, I won't head down that long, long, looooong road.
I don't think I'm better than you. I know it. You're vile, as your last comment proves. And, apparently proud of it (?). Did Mommy not hug you enough up to the age of 26? Was Daddy too busy working to pay attention to you, so now you use any & every (as you've demonstrated) tactic in the 14-year-old playbook to get some attention, albeit negative? Or, do you just have SMALL man syndrome? We'll just call it a combination.
Now, moving on to pick apart your SHORTsighted perspective on Lake Las Vegas' emergence from BK plan.
First, you need a TEENY, TINY Lake Las Vegas history lesson: Lake Las Vegas' inception was not 2005. The first homesites were sold in 1993, and the first homes were built in 1994, when the lake was complete.
Second, do you really think you're going to surprise anyone who hasn't lived under a rock for the past 5 years with your 60-70% numbers pulled out of thin air? The Strip corridor suffered 60% property value losses just over the past 12 months alone (according to LVRJ), and the valley as a whole has suffered numbers in that range since the peak. Guess you didn't read far enough to see my ITSY, BITSY comment at the end of my last post: "can be purchased for nickels on the dollar." It was so SMALL, I can understand why you missed it.
Third, there are no increasing maintenance costs in Lake Las Vegas. Not even ITTY, BITTY ones. But, again, you wouldn't actually use "facts" or "figures" to substantiate your claim, would you, LITTLE Artie?
Fourth, you really don't understand how all this development stuff works, do ya, TINY Art? Consider this ISTY, BITSY lesson complimentary: (1) A developer acquires/owns land. (2) The same developer sells or subdivides and then sells land to builders for money. (3) The builders pay their own money to construct homes. (4) The builders sell the constructed homes to end-users for money. (5) The developer uses some of its money from Step 2 along with some money from the Gub'ment to build roads, sidewalks, traffic signals, etc. so that the people who buy the homes from builders (see Step 4) can navigate to & fro. Get it? If not, repeat steps 1-5. Ergo, future development doesn't cost a ton of capital.
The rest of your post is blubber. I'm certain it will be removed by Sun staff, as was likely your intent. You're what's known as an Internet Tough Guy. 5-foot-5 in real life, but 6-foot-4 online. Bald as a baby in real life, but Fabio locks online. Can't lift his own tush to go to the gym in real life, but Vin Diesel online. So, TINY, whiny Artie, crawl back into the hole from whence you came.
Oh, LITTLE, BITTY, TEENY, TINY, ISTY, BITSY Artie, you should really address your spelling and grammar issues. They make you appear like just a LITTLE simpleton. And, we all know that's not the case. Ha.
**NEWS FLASH, NO JOKE!!!!!******
John Daly just bought the casino and plans to make it a PURE HIGH LIMIT
SLOT PALACE.
$5000 slots up to $100,000 Slots. Comps: Old Golf Balls.
****only in America!******
Boomer, Montana
What a great place to put the homeless. rooms, cooking facilities,security. LLV has it all. Plus it will clean up the streets of las vegas and downtown.
I drove by the place several times on my way to do a little boating and never thought enough of the place to stop in and see what it was all about.
By the way, does Las Vegas wash drain into their little personal lake ????????
Good article; the hold outs vs. The writing on the wall... These articles will continue,where hope and dreams meet the press. I would hope for a miracle; lets all pool our collective cortexes, and with this "Vegas think tank" manifest LLV into a world class resort.Whose got bread? not our govt. China? maybe a walmart retreat run by Columbian expats.
Perhaps the catholic church could help, anyone see the virgin mary in the reflection of those casino lights? Let the faithful flock to the lake.
How about "The Little Dubai"? oh that's right, arab money is tainted. Better to eat sand.Sayanara to a good idea whose time has passed..
Yes, Planetearthcalling, the Las Vegas wash drains into Lake Las Vegas. The wash runs from the city through the hazardous waste pits in Henderson. So the exclusive lake environment lights up at night with perchlorate and hexavalent chromium. Known cancer causing chemicals.
Really a nice place, but I wouldn't let the kids swim there. Maybe they could cross Lake Mead, and play in the abandoned magnesium mines. Really a nice place, though...
I see they removed ArtSwanson's comment, mostly directed at BlondeinGV. See, he is the foulest person on the planet!!!!!
Everything will get sold, at 5 cents on the dollar, or less, and new operators will take over everything, with little to no debt. I watched the same thing happen in Phoenix during the Savings and Loan debacle and everything bounced back better then ever. Same thing will happen here.
Planetearth- The wash runs through large conduits under Lake Las Vegas, not directly into Lake Las Vegas.
TedBundy and CactusDan: The wash runs under the lake through two large culverts. Water in the lake is pumped from Lake Mead and tumbles down into the lake through the beautiful waterfalls. There are six triathlons scheduled this year, one leg of which requires the althletes to swim across the lake. Quite the health threat. Again, just a couple more facts, sorry.
Lake Las Vegas has a bright future ... it has two things you need to live - water and electricity. Right now it is a basket case due to incredible incompetence in it's management.
More than anything Lake Las Vegas is a victim of HUBRIS. The whole idea of it was to make it an upperclass ghetto. Unfortunately, there is not enough old money in Nevada to perform this trick
for more than a few days at a time.
But, all the pieces to the economic rebound are in place. What is needed is a refocus on what it would take to make LLV a long term sustainable community. Actually, it would be EXTREMELY easy to turn the whole thing around from an economich perspective.
It's not like the golf courses don't exist, the hotels are not standing, the shops and such need to be built, housing is not available. The problem is the developers DO NOT WANT to eat their loses and want the tax payers to pay them for their stupidity.
Money is not the problem. Stupidity and a government run by clowns is the problem.
It's a piece of cake to fix it.
Fred Conquest
Democratic Candidate for Governor.
Earth to @Planetearthcalling & @Ted -
The Las Vegas wash does not drain into Lake Las Vegas. 'Member all the "The Lake is Leaking" fake reports? Those were all about two bypass pipes that carry the natural runoff to Lake Mead for natural remediation.
This is why people swim in Lake Las Vegas and not in Lake Mead.
And, because I know woobert will mention it (because that's his one trick), the naturally-occurring algae that killed some carp in Lake Las Vegas in recent weeks (as reported early this month in the LVRJ) has (1) likely run its course, and (2) only affected gill-breathers. So, woobert, unless you extract oxygen from water like amphibians & fish (hey, you just might), it won't even make you sneeze.
Further on the lake algae, Congress was working on a bill last week that would fund research into algae blooms as there are a lot of them this year in fresh water lakes. To someone like me born in northern Minnesota and surrounded by fresh water lakes, algae blooms are no mystery and hardly cause for concern, apart from the fish kill. It appears carp are the main species taking the hit at Lake Las Vegas. This means next year the bass will expand and be even more plentiful. Bring your fishing poles. And no, Art Watson, that is not a double entendre. I did not mean to reference your ITSY BITTY TEENY WEENIE, or however BlondeinGV put it.
I'll take my chances swimming at Lake Mead! We take our cruiser out several times a year. You can't even compare Lake Mead to itsy, bitsy,teeny, weenie LLV lake. What a joke! I'm still laughing! Auqapalooza will be held at Lake Mead in July. See you there! Look for me, I'll be in one of the many hundred boats.
woobert: Sounds fun. Nothing wrong with Lake Mead. I've walked there from LLV and enjoy viewing it from some of the hilltops surrounding LLV.
LLV is just not the place for the big boats. I enjoy both lakes. I prefer fishing bass at LLV on an electric skiff and returning to a nice cool one at the air conditioned pub.
Of course, when BlondeinGV deigns to make an appearance, she insists on Sunset and Vines for a very particular iced Chardonnay. What a diva.
Fred, I'd vote for you!!!!! Great post and so true!!!!!
BlondeinGV is a true Diva!!!!!!!!
Ouch, tester. I assure you, I'm no diva. I simply have a zero-tolerance policy for Internet Tough Guys like ITTY BITTY Art.
Nor am I a wine-o. I can only handle my Barbie Beer (a few of you might know what that is), and only about a half-dozen times a year.
The huz & I really like the Auld Dubliner, actually. Their shepherd's pie is my fave!
BlondeinGV, I meant Diva in the way you handled Art! It was meant in a positive way.
Yesterday, I went to my son's guitar recital and they played the song... This land is your land... This land is my land.... This land was made for you and me!! I thought of my poster pals... Were all on American Soil... Let's be happy.
@woobert -
That's the most astute thing you've posted. I couldn't agree with your point more.
Gay also means happy!
Aww...I hurt ITTY BITTY Art's feelings. Didn't think I could hit such a SMALL target. But alas, LITTLE Artie, I should have been more respectful of your delicate sensibilities. And, I said nothing of your "special" LITTLE part. I said you have SHORT man syndrome, which is painfully obvious.
Your comments were not only a few pegs below politically correct, they were on a whole other ladder of impropriety (sound it out, LITTLE Artie). Maybe those slang terms were acceptable in your day and age 70 years ago, but nowadays, you just look bitter & crotchety to we "crazy whippersnappers." Really, maybe you should take a vaca from posting here. I think it might be taking a BIT of a toll on your blood pressure.
I would just love to know how comments can "sound gay." And, how would you know?
I think you're just throwing a TINY hissy-fit because I've called you out as the fraud you are. Your posts never contain any accurate facts. Instead, you like to post LITTLE singey-songey narratives (eerily reminiscent of show tunes...and you are a fan of Jersey Boys...hmmm) filled with superficial fluff. If you want to have a real debate, BITTY boy, then bring some facts to the table and we will go toe-to-toe. But, you won't.
And, I can tell you worked on your spelling! Gold star sticker for LITTLE Artie! Your grammar and sentence structure, however, are atrocious! I think you need a LITTLE 6th-grade tutoring. Keep working, TINY Art, and you'll be able to type like a big boy someday!
The FACT remains that Lake Las Vegas needs to make some serious changes, many of which are already in progress. But, as LITTLE Artie loves to misrepresent, the community is going nowhere. Artie, it's not a matter of "if," but rather a matter of "when." The area will rebound because there are physical assets intact. More than intact, in fact. In 5-diamond condition, as a matter of fact. The lake, itself, is in nearly-new condition, with regular maintenance just completed last year. Bankruptcy emergence will commence this April/May so that the developer can begin to move forward, and that will spur other forward development in the area. The golf courses are tournament-level courses (Nicklaus Signature & Weiskopf), being meticulously maintained, and will be sold and re-opened as soon as the right deal can be struck. The housing foreclosures have slowed to single-digits-per-month. And, last but not least, Lake Las Vegas can still attract thousands of $25-a-head patrons in the dead of winter to an event because it is beautiful, unique, and fun.
These are the real facts, TINY Art. Moral of the story: Lake Las Vegas has a long road ahead, but the odds are well in its favor. Now, move along and comment about something you actually know about. Because a GIRL has beaten you.
This really is not about residents surviving this recession,it is about the businesses being able to sustain,and obviously they cant
LLV is full of residents who are not dramatically affected by this economy,and/or they can weather the storm better than alot of vegas residents,but LLV also depends on ,or did depend on the golfing,restaurants,casinos,etc,and they have not been able to bear this economy,thats where the shame is in all of this
there is no doubt about the carl icahn's of the investment world will come in there and revitalize,but i think that will be quite a few miles up the road
peace out
always amusing listening to the overly optimistic rantings of the upside down desperate llv homeowners. Keep talking and maybe you'll convince yourselves and a few of the sheep that these stucco boxes are worth half of what you all paid! I was out there looking at foreclosures and "short sale" homes and this is the largest group of bubble leftovers still in denial. You will get it eventually---although with some, denial is a powerful emotion.
As per your suggestion Art, here are the Art Swansons I found in/near Las Vegas Nevada:
Name City State Age
Arthur Vernon Swanson Boulder City NV 83 View Details
Arthur P Swanson Boulder City NV 85 View Details
Arthur B Swanson Henderson NV 78 View Details
Arthur A Swanson Reno NV 78 View Details
The addresses and phone #'s were not available. So, you don't have to worry about me or BlondeinGV stopping by for afternoon tea.
BTW, there are plenty of more people supporting LLV than just me and BlondeinGV.
Wow, TINY Art. You're either (1) not nearly as young as you feel, or (2) not nearly as important as you think you are. My guess is both are accurate.
And, yes, you got my attention. Nobody likes a bully, and that's all you are. So, I make bullies look stupid with facts and documented data. BTW, when did I mention your financial status? I could care less how much of a have-not ingrate you are. Also, you keep mentioning what a financial & real estate wiz you are, with no credentials and poor logic. Further, buying a dozen homes throughout your life does not a real estate expert make. Especially when discussing a community you evidently know nothing about.
Prime example: you continue to thump on your "Lake Las Vegas was a bad idea to begin with" drum, but then never answer to the arguments that all of its problems stem from the perfect financial storm of '08 combined with grossly misguided management. Logic suggests that the concept was - and is - sound, even if with a few tweaks. If the resort was still operated by TransContinental Corp, with the $540M they bagged and ran, things at Lake Las Vegas would be dramatically different right now. Think about that again. $540 MILLION. More than half a BILLION. Now, with your alleged banking background, you should be able to compute how long a company with minimal overhead can sustain on a number with 9 digits. A staff of maybe 20, two small buildings, and a bunch of land requiring no maintenance is all they own. Even add in taxes, assessments, and HOA subsidy, and it's still a TINY fraction of $540M in 2 years. So, yet again, you leave me no choice but to doubt your brainpower.
As I noted in my last post, you did not have the GUTS to post a fact-based, logic-ridden debate because you KNOW somewhere in the back of your mind that I am right. Do some homework and come back for an intellectual debate instead of launching crazy personal attacks and then squealing "I'm being attacked." If you can't take being called on it, then don't dish stupidity.
Actually what Art is sayng makes sense to me. Blonde your on the defensive because your living there. Think outside the box. Obviously people living there don't want failure, but I would look from the outside in. It's not 200 homes that may foreclose is the concern.But if everything around them crumbles it's a BIG concern.
And when you belittle people & center them out, it certainly does not make you a better person.
Reading these posts I have to agree with Serp
@Serpent -
If you read through the history of my comments, you will see that I rarely stoop to such sophomoric levels to prove a point. But, it was necessary with Art. His rants are riddled with factual inaccuracies and contradictions; I am just representing what is in black-and-white. Art definitely struck the first blow (as I'm certain he would admit), and I was taught to stick up for myself. You can't read the comments he posted late last night, but they were disgustingly reprehensible. I'm not just saying that because they were aimed at me; I couldn't care less what Art thinks of me. They were so offensive that the comment was pulled by Sun staff within an hour - at Midnight on a Monday. That doesn't happen if 1 person clicks "suggest removal." And, obviously, the Sun thought it was wildly inappropriate, in reference to his assumptions of my sexual preferences: "Comment contained a personal attack and vulgar language."
And, you are incorrect. I am defensive about the community because part of my job's territory is Lake Las Vegas. I am there usually 4+ days per week. The GV in my screenname is for Green Valley. I find it important to present the true and honest facts regarding the proceedings at Lake Las Vegas, as they are released in court documents, property records, and sourced reports, etc. Many of the Sun's reports are negligent at best, and Art's comments are malicious. What he, you, and other LLV-haters fail to have any concern for is that out-of-staters read these reports looking for accurate information. When opinions are handed over as fact, people get a very tainted picture of things out there.
I am curious, Serpent, what is so logical about Art's argument? I've looked through every one of his comments, and can't find one accurate, verifiable fact in any of his ramblings.
Dipstick:
Thanks for the sentiment. It's not that we are a cheerleading squad, although Art Swanson probably would love to see BlondeinGV in mini skirt and pom poms, but that aside, it's that people post half truths, innuendo, flat out lies, not to mention the Sun does its share of the same.
I've lived in Lake Las Vegas for 7 years, I know a bit about what's going on here. I've also traveled around the world, lived in several places, including what some would consider paradise, Laguna Beach, CA (for 20 years). I prefer Lake Las Vegas.
You are indeed correct in your assessment that our economy is cyclical and things may return to a semblance of what they used to be. Rest assured, however, none of us will witness a speculative real estate bubble the likes of which we just lived through probably for another 50 years, when everyone has forgotten about this one and history repeats itself.
I do take exception that this is the worst economy since the Great Depression. The Recession of 1982 was brutal. I was living in Eugene Oregon, just got out of the University of Oregon, went into business. Interest rates were over 20%, inflation at 13%. There was one, count it, one building permit issued in the entire county for the entire year.
There is risk of a double dip recession, which could very well be coming, brought on by the irresponsible, profligate politicians in Washington. Couple this with a terrorist attack on our soil and an Isreali strike on Iran. Should we suffer a perfect storm like this, we will challenge the 30's for the worst economy in modern times.
But hey, we can only do the best we can, and for me, that includes getting along with my neighbors, trying to be thrifty, and when all else fails, taking long, serene walks around Lake Las Vegas.
The "Dave RAMSEY SHOW" Broadcast on KXNT AM talk radio, tells people not to gamble and to pay off their mortgage even if they have to eat "beans and rice" for dinner every night. This is why the area has experienced such a downturn.
Why would anyone patronize such a station that is killing our economy.
Blonde, don't tell me that you're a real estate agent trying to sell this crap.
I also agree with Serpent! I live next store to this beautiful mess! I can look over my back wall and see the beauty and sometimes fireworks (on the holidays). I have lived here for 9 years. we have frequented LLV many times. Love the employees at CML. .. But I got a chip on my shoulder years ago!!! 1st it started with the water and your lake; was there not a water shortage?? 2nd I have been out there many times.... Sprinklers, sprinklers, sprinklers!!! In the middle of a heat wave! We have a schedule... Does LLV not?? They have over done it over the years! I still have a few more pet peeves with LLV. That will come soon! Lake Mead is at your back door (best largest man made lake in the world) and you still continue to steal its water! Selfish
no doubt--bunch of realtors--LOTS OF POTENTIAL! Never a better time to buy!
The posters here who live in LLV and are vigorously defending it into the ground to the point of incivility are setting a very poor example for their community. Stand up tall and proud and be positive and kind examples to the place you call home.
The demise of this property had a lot to do with it's poor, over ambitious planning, greed and far away location. Sure, its a drive and is very beautiful, but lets face it, it's still a casino, and there's many closer choices. And besides, lets be real about this, you never saw the lake from the casino if your face was in front of a slot machine or at a table! Now, If they turned it into a golf resort instead of a casino/master planned community, it would have had far more success. Thats my take on this. I feel bad for the people that lost their jobs, lets not forget that. Much luck to them
Ha! BISTY Artie, you've been a busy LITTLE bee, haven't you? I'd say I'm the one who's under your skin, based upon the vast number of run-on sentences you just spewed.
Let me clear a few things up for you, LITTLE guy. To set the record straight, I am a business owner who has to be in LLV regularly. Sure, I could be a real estate agent. Or, I could be an investment banker for Credit Suisse. I could be a hotel industry PR consultant. I could be a corporate attorney for Loews Corp. I could work for the City of Henderson. I could own a shop in the Village. The fact is, you have no idea who I am or what I do for a living. All you need to know, TINY Art, is that I know the area as well - or better - than anyone, because I make that part of my business.
Since you brought it up, I love how you think so lowly of real estate agents since you were in the industry for - as you say - 30 years. No wonder you have such grand self-esteem issues. Tell your psych that you were "deflecting" again. It obviously doesn't take a real estate agent to understand that buying any asset at 60-70% off (in LLV commercial properties, much, much more) of former value is the way that most wealthy people get that way. As the Oracle of Omaha put it, "You don't bet against America, because you'll lose." Las Vegas is as American as you can get, and Lake Las Vegas will be fine as long as Vegas is around. BTW, CA's Orange County went BK in 1994 (Ch. 9, gov't equivalent to Ch. 11). Now, it's host to some of the highest-priced ZIP codes in the country and has a thriving business economy (can you say Irvine?).
One of your many problems is that you already have an answer in your head before you conduct any research. Here is where I show how very ill-informed you are:
The money train for Lake Las Vegas is very simple. Boeddeker & Bass bro's (and a few other private investors) got together the initial capital to develop LLV, somewhere in the $500M neighborhood. Then, these same parties received a $540M loan from CS, securing the corp's assets against the note. Next, they ceased making payments on the debt, foreclosure commenced, and the original investors walked with their cash. It was as simple as that. Sure, they got some tax breaks, just as every developer does, but that's not what you're talking about. So, I'll ask a familiar question, LITTLE Artie, what are you talking about? "Funny money?" "Shaky cards?" Your deliberate use of simile is so transparent. You have no clue what you're talking about. Also, LLV is currently run by CS, one of the world's largest banking institutions. Are you seriously telling me with a straight face that there is no money? And, obviously, you've already forgotten about the $127M from Deutsche Bank secured in mid-2008 (your quote: "no local or regional financing was ever able to be raised for this project!" - wrong again). I think your SMALL mind is too far gone for ginko. Better step it up to Aricept.
The fact that you're using terms like "CDOs" & "fund derivatives" reveals that you (1) have no clue what you're talking about, and (2) just looked up a few "smart-sounding" words in a financial dictionary while authoring your post. I haven't heard either of those terms for years...since I was studying for my Series 7. REAL industry insiders would just say "options" or "muni bonds." And, neither apply to Lake Las Vegas. Moron.
You should try to get your $ back for your magic rose-colored glasses: "at the time LLV was proposed predicted this state of affairs." So, someone told you in 1967 that Lake Las Vegas was a bad idea? Well, even a broken clock is right a couple times a day. So, congrats, LITTLE Artie! I'm going to make a prediction of my own. The stock market WILL crash again in my lifetime. Just wait! You'll see!
Also, the disclosure at the end of the video was required by law. Gosh, for working in real estate development for 30 years, you sure know NOTHING about the governing laws. I can't say I'm surprised, ITTY BITTY Art.
And, don't worry, LITTLE Arts, I would never get out my HS cheer uniform & pompons for a dirty ol' man like you. That would definitely send your 80-year old heart into cardiac arrest.
@Blonde
Lake Las Vegas has many competition for the small population that reside in the valley. I still consider Vegas to be a small community. Summerlin is one of these places with its casinos, parks including Red Rock Canyon, trails, shopping and dining. Add Tivoli Village at Queensridge which is going full throttle with its construction to meet the December opening. I have seen the facade on one of the buildings and it is really nice. Another competition is the District at Green Valley Ranch which pretty much has the same thing on offer like Summerlin. Town Square is also a great to place to hang out which is very accessible in the valley.
The location of LLV being quite a ways for us locals is its biggest setback. It really needs to market the place aggressively to get the locals to visit the place.
@Tester
I have lived in Laguna Beach and I prefer it over LLV anytime, I also have many relatives in California, Irvine, Tustin, Rancho Palos Verdes and all the way to San Francisco. Lake Las Vegas might be like one of those bedroom communities in California but the difference here is the locals don't like to drive long distances, if residents in California don't mind the long commute or are used to it, I think for the locals in Vegas, LLV is a long commute, at least that is how I feel.
I will try to bring my kayak at LLV one of these days, I hope I don't get cited. Hahaha! Goodluck over there.
I have nothing to add.
I thought I read an article a few years back that CIRI was the first investor to sell out their mainstake interest of the resort and was done with it.
I was a bit surprised that CIRI annnounced their initial stake on the new resort when it was planned to be built, as CIRI doesn't normally deal with resorts.
If only the US Government and Wall Street could take lessons on how to invest and manage like the CIRI group board of directors do, this country wouldn't be in a crippled economy mess.
Cook Inlet Regional are an outstanding group based in Anchorage Alaska that takes care of their Alaska Natives as they also have a large state of the art complex in the Centennial Park area of Anchorage that provides full housing for the handicapped and disabled, along with a fully staffed Mary Conrad nursing home.
My ex girlfriend of four and a half years is one of the handful of CIRI shareholders and I sure do thank CIRI for taking care of her well after her major stroke that she suffered.
I also seen the Lake Las Vegas resort, my impression is that it's "ok", I mean if I were ever financially stable to choose a retirement community or perhaps a time share condo or what have ya, I could think of better places to choose from, but hey- for those of you that have a piece of Lake Las Vegas and you are happy to be living there and being a part of it, thats all that matters.
Talk about comparing Lake Las Vegas remote area versus the Los Angeles area of West Hollywood to the west side of the San Fernando Valley like Canoga Park and Northridge with access to the LA Basin is like throwing a dime in a septic tank....Before the Simi Valley Freeway and the Century Freeway were built, all you had on the entire west side was the 405 San Diego Freeway while the only east-west freeways back then was the Santa Monica Freeway in the basin, and the Ventura Freeway in the San Fernando Valley.
"They are no where near Baghdad! This is silly!" hahahaha...
--Baghdad Bob, during the Iraq war.
My thought is simply this:
ArtSwanson and the Blonde in GV need to have an arm wrestling contest.
And, Blonde in GV, when you drive into LLV, the first thing you see are the stripped hills on the right. Naked. Did you know it is estimated that it takes 50 years for the hills to recover from this stripping? And I will guarantee you that the hills will recover before LLV ever does. End of story..
Hey TINY Art,
In case you've forgotten, there's no such things as Serial 7 or 66 certs. They're called Series 7 & 66 licenses. Apparently, you've already forgotten the names of the tests you took. I have no idea, nor do I care, what you did for a living, but I doubt very highly that it had anything to do with securities since you don't even know the names of the licenses you claim you held. Here's a pop quiz, Pops. What's the difference between an RIA and a broker-dealer? I'm sure you'll copy an answer from Wiki.
Poser.
And, no, MINI-Art, I wouldn't arm wrestle you. Wouldn't want to catch something.
Readers of this debate can see that you blither on and on about obscurities, with no actual facts cited in your arguments. Mine have consistently been rooted in factual, verifiable information. Anyone with half a brain can see that you have no idea what you're talking about.
I think BLONDEinGV needs to switch to DeCaf.
She needs to visit the Village, maybe take a walk around the lake. Relax and enjoy her day. Hopefully, she can strum up some business while there.
Since we are on the subject, and I don't want to leave Blonde out here on her own, although she is quite capable of handling you guys with her little finger let alone arm wrestling, I had a Series 3 license which I let expire, I still have a 7, 24, 27, 55, and 63 and am a single principal exempt broker-dealer, still have an office in Irvine, CA to which I commute once a month for a few days. I cannot wait to get the hell out of there and back to LLV. I was born and raised in the sticks of northern Minnesota, and peace and quiet near a large rural lake with a great climate is my idea of paradise. Again, that's just me.
As a side note, there is an article in the LVSun about the Montelago Village Beer fest from this past Sunday. According to the article there were 1,400 in attendance and they raised 28k for the MDA charity! They actually showed great photos of people and the village! No locks and/or chains. :)
Hold on to your hats, even NedNougat said that the village was busy in one of the comments on a related article!
There sure is a lot of banter back and forth on Lake Las Vegas. However, I don't agree that reading news articles from the media will give the readers a clear vision of the LLV bankruptcy or where it's heading.
If you really want to know, in unbiased black and white, with a full history of how and why things are where they are, you can read it here:
http://www.kccllc.net/llv click on court documents and scroll to doc # 2062. This is the recent ammended Chapter 11 exit plan. It appears the exit date may have been moved to 5/7/2010.
I recall that Cynical Observer did a summary of the plan in another article/post about the Ritz closing in the Sun.
It is what it is... We all made our beds and will sleep in them! But, I can't get over the water wasting at LLV ! I have a 50 gallon fish tank and it evaporates rapidly (I add a gallon of water almost everyday). Its nuts to keep that water hungry, dinosaur alive.! Think outside the bun! *****Nice to go thru their and see the fountains and mini ponds obsolete.
Art:
A Broker-Dealer is a "financial firm". It has authority to clear brokerage transactions, make markets in securities, do investment banking, hire and supervise stock brokers and numerous other activities, including doing what an investment advisor does.
I own a company of which I am the single principal. Normally two are required by law, but I hold an exemption. The term Broker-dealer is vested in the company. This authority is conferred by the SEC and FINRA (formerly NASD).
Numerous securities licenses are required to be a principal in a broker-dealership, unlike an Investment Advisor which requires one.
My line of business is in technology development, my firm develops automated trading systems which are housed at the NASDAQ data centers.
CITI is a bank holding company, so too is Goldman Sachs from which, I agree, a long line of criminals have come, including Robert Rubin and Hank Paulson. Doesn't help that they were appointed Treasury Secretaries rather than sent to prison. Maybe there is still time...
Odeman, if what you say is true then I'd have to respond by saying it's LESS about AMERICANS being too lazy to work and MORE about FOREIGNERS (who are living here, not visiting here) being too lazy to learn ENGLISH!! And so it goes... they keep coming (either legally or otherwise) they continue to refuse to assimilate and they continue to refuse to put forth the effort it takes to learn to speak English.... when will the madness stop? That's not to say this Country doesn't have its' fair share of lazy Americans but face it - every Country has its' fair share of lazy citizens. But if the statement you made about needing Bilingual speakers beyond Spanish then, again I will have to say the real problem,in THIS particular instance, does not lay in the laps of lazy Americans.
Woobert:
The water situation at Lake Las Vegas is indeed complicated. The issue of evaporation is a valid one. However, the lake uses only 2/3rds of its allocation, which is used to replenish evaporation, irrigation, etc. It has a contract for 75 years with the City of Henderson to provide at those higher levels, although I think some will be traded back for issues pertaining to the golf courses.
Evaporation and irrigation (for the common areas) are essential to allow replenishment from Lake Mead as this allows fresh water to be cycled into the lake, emulating, for example, a river flowing into and out of a natural lake. Without such flow a lake stagnates.
Art is correct with his discussion on valuation, not sure anyone argued the point. The main thing is this: Lake Las Vegas will be here an awfully long time, whether or not there is further development around it. There are simply too many big players vested in the property.
This assumes no acts of God disrupting water supplies.
I'm so glad to see you, my LITTLE friend, Artie, have taken the time to finally do a little research before posting (thanks to DavidM for re-posting such a great resource...the site is great for researching filings for many, many restructure & insolvency cases in addition to LLV's restructure). See how much more civil your posts are with a quarter-teaspoon of reason mixed in?
First, your analysis leaves me wondering what your previous concept of the purpose of a Ch. 11 bankruptcy is, though. "In accepting BK Exit Plan the debtors will take a real haircut (receiving approx 20 cents on the dollar)" This is what has always happened in bankruptcies. No corporation has ever filed for reorganization when they can pay off their debts. The bankruptcy filing determines how much the corp can realistically pay to debtors, and the courts approve it. 20% is a highly normal number.
Second, the "total liquidation" you mention applies to nearly exclusively phases II & III, since phase I is almost entirely sold to second parties. Any business or brand associated with Lake Las Vegas currently is not part of the bankruptcy since it is separately owned (ie: Ritz-Carlton, the lake itself, MonteLago Village, all housing tracts, SouthShore Golf Club, the Loews, the Falls & Reflection Bay courses & clubhouses, etc.). The "developer" owns land. So, the translation is: "total liquidation" = sale of undeveloped land. To another "developer." Big deal.
Third, of course there is no assurance that the plan will be accepted. But, if the lienholders want to get anything, it will be approved. After that, the BK court will happily sign off to settle the filing. It is obviously in the best interest of all parties to approve the plan. This literally happens every day. Why would the proceeding with Lake Las Vegas be any different from other reorganizations?
Oh, and wow, Art! You found all that online in only 12 hours?! You must be some Google Machine wiz!
Adding to tester's good info, advisors under Broker-Dealership hold a fiduciary responsibility to their firm, not to their clients. RIAs are required by law to hold fiduciary responsibility to their clients alone. That's why you're seeing so many good B-D planners make the switch to the RIA model. That is also why all the major family offices (feel free to Wiki "family office," Artie) are RIA firms - because their business practices are completely transparent. It's also why the NAPFA will not accept any non-RIA advisors. Planners on the B-D side cannot meet NAPFA's standards. So, I guess you could say now that RIAs aren't always bad, either?
You know what I find so interesting about you, Art? You view everything from negative spectacles. Lake Las Vegas is bad. RIAs are bad. Broker-dealers are bad. Wall Street's bad. Yet, when tester calls you on it, Broker-Dealers aren't always so bad. Whaddya know?
You say you worked in finance / real estate / gaming for 30 years. You sure have a disdain for the entire fields in which you made a living for so long. That says a lot about your character. You should know that the majority of people in these sectors are honest and work very hard. But, as in every industry there are "bad apples."
I'm growing very bored of arguing with someone so averse to logic. Predictably, you will never stop your mission to denigrate Lake Las Vegas. What you don't get is that if you would just stick to the facts, nobody would have any beef with you (including lil' ol' me). Instead, you make stuff up.
A final comment on this article from me, no matter others post to the contrary:
I have thoroughly enjoyed the repartee, especially between Art and Blonde. I'd sit down with both or either for a beer, although, again, Blonde is such a diva she requires a Barbie beer, what-ever-the hell that is.
Ron Boedecker, the developer of Lake Las Vegas was a visionary. But a dying breed. He may not have been the best businessman, promoter, or day-to-day manager. He and his family may be entangled in the bankruptcy proceedings, but he was no con artist. That he could not bring to full fruition his vision broke his heart.
Ron accomplished something few dare even imagine. He constructed (terraformed) something unique and left us with an eco-system unique on the face of the earth. Some may laugh and denigrate it as "man-made". These are the same folks that depend on the bounty brought to you by the man-made Lake Mead.
Lake Las Vegas is a masterpiece. The story behind it befits an Ayn Rand novel. Who, by the way, sold over 500,000 copies of Atlas Shrugged in 2009, even though she passed away in 1982! Such is the hunger in those of us who remember what freedom to create and build is really like.
This longing in modern men and women is being systematically quashed by utopian environmentalists and their propagandist educrats protected by teacher's unions and tenure from pre-school to post grad.
For those of us who remember, and Art you are certainly one, Lake Las Vegas will stand as a monument to what the United States used to be. It is in your own backyard; it is a jewel and will be born out to be a tremendous asset to Henderson, Las Vegas, and even to the state of Nevada.
Come and enjoy the fun, serenity and magnificence of this man-made monument to freedom.
Well put Tester. Thanks for such a great post.
The 'hate-on' some of you seem to have for the LLV is really a bit shocking. Kudos to you BLONDEinGV for making some wonderful and insighful points.
Trust me, if I could I would totally live there, and support the project.
Couldn't agree more, tester. Very well-put. I wish all LLV stakeholders nothing but the best.
And, thanks, KarinaP. I'm just glad our city has the variety of projects (including LLV) it does. It is one of many reasons this city is truly great.
Art, I will say nothing because you have said it all and I could not agree more.
I've read the exit from Bankruptcy plan and in my opinion, overall it looks favorable. In the recently ammended plan, it looks like Carmel, the owner of the Falls/Reflections is playing hardball with the pump house.
We can't forget that Duetsche Bank gave away Fountainblue for 150 million. They had 2 billion or more on the note. This was essentially just handing over the keys to the new owners.
I imagine this will also happen to the hotel and casino. Duetsche will hand over the keys to the new owners just to get the property off their balance sheet and stop incurring the continued maintenance costs. I believe I read that the loan was 54 million. If they dump properties in the same % loss like they did Fountainblue, it can be had for very cheap... which would then make a profit and affordable, much like all properties right now.
Excellent point, DavidM64. But, don't expect our friends, Artie & his sidekick BilliardsBoy, to understand such reason and rationale. It's just not the way their brains are wired.
The fact that Art doesn't understand that the BK cannot force the liquidation of assets owned by parties uninvolved in the filing is highly revealing. As I've stated numerous times, the assets in Phase I (everything currently developed in LLV is in Phase I) sold by the developer are now owned by 3rd parties. These include: (1) MonteLago Village, (2) Both Falls & Reflection Bay golf courses & their clubhouses, (3) Ritz-Carlton (including the casino building since that is owned by the Ritz' owners), (4) the lake itself, (5) the Loews, (6) all residential communities throughout LLV (including SouthShore in its entirety), etc. None of these assets can be liquidated by force because they are not part of the BK. It's so simple that a 3rd grader could get this.
He (our LITTLE friend) uses fabricated scare-tactics because he knows his argument is weak when you actually look at all the facts and likely outcomes to current standings: "Rezoned for low income apartments, industrial uses?"
Sure, Chicken LITTLE, the sky COULD be falling. And the big quake could hit the San Andreas, and Red Rock could be ocean-front. Is it LIKELY? Not in the least. He also does not take into consideration the City of Henderson's stake in the community. There are a handful of areas that add differentiation to Henderson: Lake Las Vegas (duh), The District, Ascaya, the Multi-Generational Center, among a few others. The city has made it crystal clear that it is behind the success of LLV 100%, and that it will do whatever is necessary to facilitate its prominence. That doesn't mean there won't be changes to the masterplan's zoning - that condos may be built where half-acre custom homes were slated. But, Section 8? Not a chance, Chicken LITTLE.
Art, you are not only a Negative Nancy, you're also in denial. Free yourself of such pessimistic shackles, and that chip on your shoulder just might grow back in.
Blonde, you are a bitter person who unfortanately has to resort to personal attacks whenever someone disagrees with your point of view. I don't agree with what you say but I respect your opinion.
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I assure you I'm not bitter. Funny, though, that you accuse me of the same thing you just did. Nice to meet you, Pot (cooking tool reference). In full disclosure, I'm pretty tired of having to post corrections to misrepresentations on a variety of Sun articles (& their comments).
None of my posts have any trace of an attack on someone's opinion. To the contrary, a few posts back, I told Art that I have zero beef with his opinions, but that his misstatements and factual inaccuracies are my lonely bones to pick, so to speak. Of course, everyone has a right to their opinions. And, Artie has every right to post the inaccuracies in which he deals. But, I also have every right to expose him and disseminate the truth behind his fictitiousness. As insane as it feels to do so, I will counter-point him at every step from here on out because his bullying is not appropriate (but obviously, not illegal).
And, I'd just like to remind you that the screenname behind which you steadfastly stand has made some of the most disgusting, incredulous, and downright vile comments I've ever seen in print. I've heard my fair share of gems, and Artie can hang with the best - er, worst - of them (not a compliment, Art). You may not have seen his post that Sun moderators removed on 3/15, but it was one of the most reprehensible posts to ever grace the comments of any Sun article. And, it was aimed at me, very personally. I wasn't even offended by it; I was very, very embarrassed for Art.
All topics aside, I gotta agree with BlondeinGV, especially about Art's comments. I read it before the staff removed it. It prompted me to comment that Art is the foulest person on the planet.
What's interesting is what Art stated just above " I am really not that negative of a person, quite the opposite." Really? I mean, really? Art, have you read ANY of your thousand posts? There is not one nice/positive thing in any of them. This just goes to show that everything you say is just not believable.
Face it! You were promised steak and you were fed beans..........
"OH", and "WATER" lots of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*******And for tester,********* A monument??? It is not one of the seven wonders of the world!!! It is a piece of work, but its not gonna make a positive reflection.
I think the Sun and RJ., have done everything (and will do everything to keep us updated)! Thank you, for keeping us informed!
Yes... but Blonde being patronizing and arrogant will never get your points across intelligently.
Lake LV has a future, but it needs to reinvent and remove itself from the ritzy, elitist image it currently sports. LV can use a South Street Seaport (NY City) or Pier 17 (SF), and LLV has the potential to fit that bill; however, these by-the-water success stories need to be created for everyone, not surrounded by 4 star hotels and multi-million dollar mansions. My hope is Ritz will reopen as a three star hotel, and the village will go thru a purgative phase where $10k per art piece galleries replaced by $2 souvenir shops, and $50 restaurants replaced by $20 TGIFs.
ARTSWANSON....HAVE YOU TAKEN A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR RECENTLY????? How sad for you to have become SO UGLY!!!!! Please tell us there isn't an "artswanson JUNIOR!!!! Anyway, what difference should it make to you regarding one's sexuality???? GROW UP - GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!...BETTER YET, WHY NOT JUST WAKE UP TOMORROW AND DO SOMETHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY...LIKE COME OUT TO LLV, GRAB A BITE IN THE VILLAGE, TAKE A STROLL AROUND THE LAKE AND WELL MANICURED WALKWAYS AND BREATHE IN THE FRESH AIR. YOU MAY FIND IT SOOTHING TO YOUR SOUL - YOU MAY EVEN FINDING YOURSELF UNDERSTANDING WHY ALL OF US "FOOLISH SMUCKES" as you refer to us as..love it here. You may even want to become a
"new and kinder and gentler art!!" Are you up for a challenge???