Share
Tweet
Print
E-mail
Share
digg
reddit
Newsvine
Fark
Stumble
TechnoratiAnti-abortion group says amendment push similar to slavery issue
Sunday, March 14, 2010 | 2:44 p.m.
CARSON CITY – A group that is seeking to ban abortions says its goal to amend the Nevada Constitution is akin to the drive in the 1860s to free slaves.
Personhood Nevada says its efforts in pushing an initiative petition “is analogous to the Slavery Civil Rights issue.”
The group has filed its opening brief, asking the Nevada Supreme Court to overturn the decision of District Judge Todd Russell of Carson City, who ruled the initiative petition couldn't be circulated or put on the ballot because the language was too general and the voters wouldn't understand its effect.
The Supreme Court has agreed to speed up consideration and the final brief should be filed by April 2. No extensions will be granted.
Even if the Supreme Court ruled the issue could be put on the ballot, advocates would have to gather more than 97,000 voter signatures by June 15 for it to qualify.
The initiative petition, filed Oct. 21 with the Secretary of State’s Office, would amend the Nevada Constitution to give “the inalienable right to life for everyone, young or old, health or ill, conscious or unconscious, born or unborn.”
The opening brief filed Thursday, signed by Las Vegas lawyer Michael L. Peters, says the Civil War was fought to correct a “terrible wrong” that blacks were considered property and not people.
This petition, Peters said, seeks a constitutional amendment that every human being from the beginning of life shall be considered a person.
Judge Russell said the language in the initiative petition was too general and vague and failed to give adequate notice to residents of what they would be voting on.
In his January decision, Russell said there is nothing in the language of the initiative petition about abortion and the rights of fertilized eggs, embryos and fetuses.
The judge also said the initiative petition was defective because it wasn't limited to a single subject. He said it would affect the issues of constitutional rights to life, search and seizure and have an impact on state criminal laws, and also have many social implications.
Peters, in his brief, argues the petition meets constitutional muster because it is limited to one topic. But he agreed it would have multiple implications if voters approved it at two elections.
Peters said not all citizens agree with the petition, as evidenced by the suit to stop its appearance on the ballot. But he said there should be free speech and debate on the issue.
Those opposing the petition, Peters said, include Planned Parenthood of America and the American Civil Liberties Union.
He said he found it ironic that the American Civil Liberties Union would take “such a strong stance against free speech in this matter.” The ACLU filed suit in November to prevent the initiative from going forward, arguing the language was too vague.
And four conservative groups that have battled for anti-abortion legislation also oppose the initiative. The Nevada Eagle Forum, the Independent American Party, Nevada Families and Nevada Life say the language is too vague and may not apply to abortions at all.
Discussion: 68 comments so far…
Comments are moderated by Las Vegas Sun editors. Our goal is not to limit the discussion, but rather to elevate it. Comments should be relevant and contain no abusive language. Comments that are off-topic, vulgar, profane or include personal attacks will be removed. Full comments policy.
Post a comment
Spotlight
-
FREE T-shirt with FREE Consultation
Bannerview.com
Get the Official BannerView.com T-Shirt plus outstanding eBusiness advice when you come in for your FREE Consultation!
-
Free In Home Design Service
Furniture Market
Free in home design service by one of our professional designers with this coupon.
-
$1 off Carton of Cigarettes.
Las Vegas Paiute Smoke Shop
*Must be 18 years of age or older. No limit on any one brand carton purchases. Cannot be used to purchase Marlboro, KOOL, Camel, Misty, ...
-
Where Vegas escapes Vegas
Springs Preserve
$2 off NV resident adult general admission or $4 off non-resident general admission. Code: C01LVSU1210
-
-
Free Gift With Loan
Sun Loan Company & Tax Service
Redeem this coupon for a free gift with any loan.
-
$50 Off
TravelForYouToGo.com
Don't let lack of time, or patience prevent you from having & creating a great vacation experience. My travel planning service will help you create ...
-
3 Races For $45, 40% Savings
Pole Position Raceway
At Pole Position Raceway you will kart race at speeds up to 45 mph on a 1/4 mile euro-style course. Race friends & family, or ...
-
$15 off Zen Magic
Zen Magic at Planet Hollywood
See Japan's First Ladies of Illusion. Receive $15 off admission with this coupon.
-
Buy 1 Sandwich Get 1 50% Off
Flow Rider Truck
Present this coupon to get 50% off your second sandwich.
Find our weekly schedule at www.flowridertruck.com -
Tax Credit Savings up to $12,000
American West
American West can unlock the key to your dream home! Bring to any American West community. The amount of the tax credit differs based upon ...
-
15% off Premium Cigars
Las Vegas Paiute Smoke Shop
Not valid for accessories, mass market or cigarettes purchases. Cannot be combined with any other Las Vegas Paiute offer or discounts. Must be 18 years ...
-
$15 off $55 purchase or $25 off $75 purchase
Barcelona Tapas & Bar
Barcelona Tapas & Bar offers a variety of tapas and specialty cocktails. Mon-Fri 50% off lunch menu. Sun-Mon 50% off tapas 8-10pm, Tues 50% of ...
- Most Read
- Discussed
- Most E-mailed
- Feds, police raid Las Vegas medical marijuana shops
- Executive is third to leave Wynn Resorts in 2 weeks
- Las Vegas told to sober up, face its economic woes
- Teacher accused of starting fire in school copier room
- Ruling likely means 19 laid-off county workers will get jobs back
- Video surfaces of lion attack at MGM Grand’s Lion Habitat
- Gaming civil war begins: MGM, Boyd and others sue Harrah’s over arena
- Police: Repairman accused of assault might have other victims
- Erik Scott’s family asks to view evidence before inquest
- Obama to campaign for Democrats in Las Vegas
Blogs
Politics: Ralston's Flash
The whole story: How Angle asked for a debate with Reid, how Reid agreed and Angle backed out (20 Comments)
The Kats Report
Liberace Museum closing; final day of operation Oct. 17 (13 Comments)
Elsewhere
Claim Jumper files for bankruptcy with plan to sell business
The Kats Report
Recycled Percussion does the junk 'n' roll at MGM Grand's Studio 54 (1 Comment)
De-Jock's Journal
One down, a trip to Salt Lake City is up next (2 Comments)
The Damon Political Report
Obama to campaign for Democrats in Las Vegas (78 Comments)
Joe Heck out with first television ad (16 Comments)
The Sun
Locally owned and independent for more than 50 years.
"A group that is seeking to ban abortions says its goal to amend the Nevada Constitution is akin to the drive in the 1860s to free slaves."
What a bunch of drama queen morons
u can not tell a woman what to do with there body. no if and or but about it period.
Michael L. Peters doesn't sound like a very good lawyer.
Would someone please give me a head count of how many "pro-lifers" have gone out of their way to adopt those nearly half million children in the U.S. in need of a home? Including all of those crack-addicted babies? Since you're always touting adoption as the viable alternative, I was just wondering whether you actually do any follow through on all of this. In fact, it seems you're not, since there should not be even one single child in need of adoption right now. Or does your righteousness stop at birth? Unless you plan to walk your walk to the fullest, stay out of other people's lives, or at least stop pretending you really care about these children. Yes, I'm sure some of you have done this; but I want the total percentages of all people who claim to be "pro life"; how many have actually adopted, and how many children have they adopted?
Keep your religious beliefs out of other peoples lives.
I'd be okay with this law except that there are already too many irresponsible women getting knocked up by irresponsible men leaving me and other taxpayers to support their little bastards because baby daddy ain't planning on providing for his offspring.
In my opinion, we should be encouraging birth control by cutting down benefits to irresponsible people.
The first 5 posters are clearly people who have never met Michael Peters. I have had the pleasure of meeting this attorney and couldn't say there is a more honest and kind person than him. In response to Teaser, I know for a fact Michael Peters does thousands of adoptions because my close family friend had him do one and he was referred by someone who told him about him. Its sad that people come here and bash people who are fighting for free speech and protection of life, the same people would probably be trying to save the whales but are for killing babies. Sick. And I'm a atheist but I just don't get the obsession with killing babies. Maybe the Las Vegas Sun can censor my post because I'm not a rabid baby killer.
ShannonK sounds like a disturbed baby killer.
If, according to the petition, every human is considered a person from the moment of conception, how is that person's age determined. Will every woman be required to keep a detailed list of every time she has sex to determine the exact time of conception and use that as the 'birth date' of each person? Will every woman of child bearing age have to submit to a pregnancy test before entering any adult-only venue ascertain that she is not bringing an underage 'person' into that place? What if a woman has a miscarriage; will she be subject to an involuntary manslaughter charge?
The anti slavery amendment was a total lie. It was actually an amendment that allowed corporations to have all the rights of people and it sold out the US to corporations.
Abraham Lincoln warned us about this. "We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. . . .
It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war,corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."
An antibortion bill will only add more unwanted and abused kids to an over populated planet AND GIVE CORPORATIONS MORE POWER OVER US. An excess of labor leads to a decrease in wages. Sound familiar? The average american's real wages have decreased since 1980 and there is no vision for the future. Anti abortion is NOT an religious issue, it is corporations insuring an excess of labor.
Wish these kooks would get raptured already.
Norbert63 sounds way more disturbed than anyone posting here. These people say they care about life and freedom, but they lie. What they really want is to force all of us to abide by their bible cult rules. And bty, Norbert, isn't it a big ol' sin to deny your religion? What will your fellow bible cultists think? What will the all-powerful, invisible cloud-being think?
Looks like you're cruising for a smotin', Norbert!
perry -- how true.
tvegas -- you said nearly all that needs to be said on this subject.
Here we go again ...
Let's pass a bill that relabels the death penalty "extreme post-natal abortion". The resulting head-spinning should give a year or two entertainment.
Okra, you are one of the funniest people in the world. Your comments are so quippy and hilarious, you should be a comedian. Seriously, where did you get your wit.
Apparently, in your narrow minded world anyone against abortion must be against it for religious reasons. It's obvious you want to stifle speech by your with tired old phrases against religious people. Afraid of debate, discussion. I would rather trust most reigious people than most of my fellow athiests. True religious people seem to live by a general golden rule or self sacrifice principle and consideration of others, whereas someone like you is obviously obsessed with themselves.
Keep demeaning people trying to protect those who can't protect themselves. I'm sure you would inconsiderately kill a dog walking down the street if it "got in your way". That's just the type of person you are though, a real stand up, class act. You probably don't have kids, just living for yourself. Sitting behind the computer trying to figure out what devious, sadistic thing you can find or post on the internet. But that's you. You are so proud of yourself.
Whats funny is how these pro lifers stick their noses in other peoples buisness. Do you masterbate? Isnt that killin sperm? What about when a woman menstruates, doesnt that kill eggs? So should we outlaw PMS and masterbation? And to compare abortion to slavery really shows how ignorant these people are, why dont you go read "My freedom, My bondage" by Fredrick Douglas, and keep in mind he was a house negro which was as close as a slave could be to not being a slave. America is about freedom, and just because you beleive passionately about something doesnt give a person or the government the right to stick their noses in someones buisness that dont concern them. If what Im doing is such a sin I do beleive that when my short life is over I will suffer for eternity and if these little fetuses are gods children then they havent had the oppurtunity to sin so rest assured they are gaurenteed a spot in heaven, so whats your problem dont you think its a good thing to go to heaven? Whats so great about life anyways? Pretty much in between the good stuff its filled with a bunch of ignorant people who would let you burn in hell, if they could, for not agreeing with them. What I dont get is the freaking United States Supreme Court already ruled on it, so if you can change that couldnt someone else with the power and influence make slavery legal again? Why dont you pro lifers mind your own buisness and pray for us sinners instead of trying to blow up people, then maybe people would have a little compassion for your plight. And by the way, God talks to me, and he says yall should mind your own buisness.
Where does the insanity end...These people are clearly been brain washed by Pat Robertson and his cronies..Its a woman's choice..end of story.
Norbert/Concern Troll:
Nice try, but I'm not buying it. The old, "I'm a lifelong(democrat/atheist) but I just don't understand (Obama's/Pro choicer's) obsession..." routine is really getting old. Toss in a hefty dose of victim hood ( people want to stifle my speech etc.) and hypocrisy (call people devious, evil, sadistic,
baby killers; yet bemoan the lack of serious debate) and it all adds up to one thing.
Religious Wacko Concern Troll.
Why don't you just come clean, Norbert?
WWJD?
Okra, I don't care what you "buy". You don't understand much because you are a lonely self hating sicko. I'm no democrat and I'm no republican. I despise political parties. Obama is as much a tyrant as Bush. In fact I'm libertarian, unaffiliated with one major exception from the party line - abortion. I'm for personal responsibility and liberty for those who can't help themselves. But you would never understand that because you live in your small world. You have never had any reason to live for yourself I would suspect. That's why you hate everyone and everything.
Look, your mind is sick and polluted. You can't help it, you have been brainwashed to be obsessed with death. Maybe your mom didn't love you, maybe your dad molested you. Either way, I don't care, it doesn't justify your hateful attitude towards innocence.
By the way, what are you 5 years old using the word Troll, what a pathetic person you are.
You know, going to an adoption clinic is like going to the dog pound. Pick one out, hope for the best. My older brother adopted a child, and now he's paying the price. The child is schizo, he is institutionalized, he hates his mother, and is a danger to anyone who walks by. Once he hit puberty, he went nuts.
I'd have him euthanized. You right to lifers have no clue. Never will, you're just a bunch of Jimmy Swaggart clones. Buncha' dopes....
Typical for these idiots to try to find a way to control a persons life.....these freaks should just leave people alone and mind their own damn business. I am SO SICK of this group trying to interfere with womans rights I am about ready to Satanistic on their asses and I don't believe in satan...or at least curse them ;)
nordberg63 you are an idoit plain and simple
abortion is good and needed for our society.
it eliminates children being brought into the world that taxpayers have to support.
The crazybomb has rendered me speechless.
Almost.
I'd respond more thoroughly, but right now I have to go find a puppy dog to sacrifice... for my nightly vivisection ritual...
abortion is a selfish evil act. there's no such thing as accident or unplanned pregnancy. life is a wondrous gift.
take this perception.. an evil would ask you to have an abortion because that child would be a "great" man..take a look at Tim Tebow's life if you may.
stevem, so true.
Perry: I believe we are not talking about the woman's body, but the baby's body. There inlies the issue, genius.
ShannonK: Ad hominem. It's a logic fallacy. Look it up.
Teaser: Have you adopted a child? Walk the walk if you're going to call everyone else in the world out on it.
FRM: Really?
Bob: Look out! The corporations are trying to control you! No wait... that's just the government.
Okra: Your ignorance and malice appears limitless. That's almost impressive. We get it. You're above God and religion, and therefore are far more enlightened than everyone else. Blah blah blah blah blah already. Oh Mr. Enlightened? You spelled his name wrong... How sad for you.
Nednougat: Well, I wouldn't want to generalize based off of one case or anything (even though you clearly did) but I'm pretty sure adoption does far more good for children than bad.
MR906: How come no one ever acknowledges the fact that the choice came when the two people had sex! It's not like everyone who is having sex doesn't understand that potential consequences of this decision.
ohnoitsoro..A idiot or ill planned decisions happen every second it's not your place or mine to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body..This is a private matter that need to stay private..No matter what laws are passed abortion will continue and I think we all have bigger issues to worry about than forcing a woman to into a situation that no good can come from.
Wow,,, I will say I thought I had heard it all... Abortion and slavery in the same sentence has got me thinking what a bunch of whackos these people are.. Some people think they can decide what is best for everyone but themselves... They should go back to sticking there noses up someones rear and not in someone else biz...
hey dumber than dumber, your taxes are going to support these rich ceo's, taxes going to support shipping jobs overseas. taxes going to bail out wall street.
I think one of our posters has a new screenname;
How much do you want to bet that Nordberg63 is hiding under a rock right this very minute???
Don't be ashamed of your position, or hide behind some "i'm an athiest but" garbage pile of lies, tell us how you feel!
btw...
BIRTH CONTROL, PEOPLE! HELLLOOOO!!!
If you are too stupid to use it, or you can't afford children, or are just plain too stupid too raise them if you could, DO NOT BREED!
autoeroticism.com!
I don't know why conservative groups want to do away with abortion.
Libs which love the idea of abortion will probably have more abortions than conservatives which love life.
Also, minorities tend to vote democratic. For instance blacks over 80% (really more like 90%) of the time vote for the Democratic ticket. For each live birth in the black population there are 2 abortions.
So if libs want to kill off their offspring go let them.
Abortion also has a exponential effect. So a live birth will result in two other live births. Those two live births will result in four live births and so on and so on and so on. The abortion of one person results in all that population going away.
The scams of Social Security and Medicare are based on pure high population growth rates. If you don't have robuts population growth then those systems will fail.
Over time, there will be less and less libs which is good.
On the other hand, millions of abortions occur which is bad.
I wonder if there were no abortions if Gore would have won.
There are over 1 million abortions a year in our country.
The main reason for abortion is birth control. The women do not have good control of their bodies and practice unsafe sex.
May God have mercy on our souls.
Oh jeez, not this crap again! There are enough problems with our state constitution already. We don't need to mess it up any more with this "give the zygotes personhood" crap that not only imposes a state abortion ban, but could also outlaw birth control and probably mess up all our criminal laws. It makes no sense at all, and hopefully the Nevada Supreme Court will do the right thing and throw the book at these crazies.
As a Christian I am sickened by these evangelist right wing neo con nut jobs telling everyone else how to live. It seems their heros and spokespeople commit adultery,commit acts of homosexuality,steal,rape and murder as they continue to tell the rest of America how to live.
One thing is clear and that is abortion is legal and will remain legal regardless of what a bunch of religious zealots do.
Nordberg As you detest the way people write about you,you do the same thing in return. You are what is wrong with America. You fail to understand others have rights as you do. If you really want to your world a favor stop the Catolic Church from sexually abusing children in the name of God.
Sgt Rock You are a very sick person who needs to be institutionalized immediately.
Conservatives love live that is why your lying hero Bush lied about his failed war and killed and maimed tens of thousands of human beings. By the same token when he was supposedly serving in the armed forces no one could find him in Alabama where he was drunk and high on cocaine, not to mention Cheney who had five deferments from the draft. Your heros who really are a disgrace to humanity.
Are you aware of how many wealthy whites are Democrats? Od course you are not,you are an idiot. The problem with little minds like yours is you,like most Republicans want someone else to pay your way while responsible people want to contibute to a better America.
To demonstrtae the ilk of you and people who think like you do I will remind you social security is paid for by people who work and pay taxes. I will also bet you draw some kind of tax payer pension which someone else contributed to.
I wonder how many Republicans draw their social security when the become eligible? They are the first in line to sign up you fool.
I wonder if Mrs. Bush had aborted if the world would have gotten lucky and she would have chosen to abort the idiot W? As the simpleton you are can you name one accomplishment Bush has as compared to Gores? Of course you can't. You are to busy litening to Fox News and Rush for your next mentally disturbed talking point.
Speaking of women having control of their bodies it would be nice if you had control over your hateful,stupid,vile mind. Speaking of God he may have some judgements for you regarding your disgustiong, hateful mind and mouth. You speaking of God while you make proclamations and posts like you do is repugnant to intelligent people.
Once again I can only assume you have served in the military and if you have you are an embarrassment to those other verterans as well as humanity in general.
Poor rock. Jeez what an outlook. What happens when a rock mates.
This is clearly the funniest thread I've come across. It's like a party of misfits. Like chewing apples and then tossing in some chocolate and then some bacon.
And I must say the most striking feature is the remarkable distance between some people's ears.
Holy me; uncouth thee.
Scum.
Praise for my vision; warm and foamy urine on your teeth.
Very successful community development strategy.
golden
Yes you've all heard of the golden rule.
And the golden shower.
Here we have the golden path to resurrecting decency; everybody aim tool. CUT LOOSE!
"Libs which love the idea of abortion will probably have more abortions than conservatives which love life." --the Rock has spoken!
The oracle of desert consciousness
and all of you which is knocked up by some fool which you don't know is, by the proclamation of the ROCK, bound to have that chile and raise it to be a which, like me.
"there's no such thing as accident or unplanned pregnancy."
Um, yes there is.
Pregnancy as a result of rape is not a planned pregnancy.
Contraceptives are not 100% effective. Even birth control pills are not 100% effective.
Question: What if the process of giving birth would be fatal to the mother? Or to the child? Or to both?
Or the fetus gets goofed up in car wreck, loses oxygen & other nutrients through smashed cord and brain goes bad quick.
Or...or
And...if in the land of the free, a soul sees a child as a burden now but a privilege later to nurture, who is the one to direct her steps?
Homer:
Hear hear! Way to remind them what a Christian is TRULY about! (I don't get to speak as an 'insider', but I'm soooo glad you did!)
Gmag:
What do you propose to help those who USE birth control, but are among the percentage of those who it is not 'effective' for?
Your odds of becoming a parent are something near 30% when using condoms (only).
As the commericals say- women over 35 really should not use 'the pill'- or any other form of BC that involves adding or blocking hormones.
Should even those who choose to abstain, be on a form of BC- in case they are raped?
As to the actual story:
I cannot imagine the insensitive thought process that lead Mr. Peters to include in his opening brief, such a faulty, mis-leading and completely irrelevant statement as "says the Civil War was fought to correct a "terrible wrong" that blacks were considered property and not people."
I don't even know exactly where to begin!!!
The American Civil War was basically fought, because the Southern States seceeded. The Confederate States were fighting for their right to be independent- they viewed it as a fight for rights-the same reason we fought in the Revolutionary War. The U.S.Government, wanted to show them that secession was not an option. Plain and simple. It was NOT a war over slavery.
In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation, written in the early part of the War, ONLY freed slaves in those States which had seceeded! It had no 'teeth', because Lincoln wasn't presiding over THEM. (Like if I were to officially declare Tibet to be free.) Lincoln really only wrote it to tick the South off.
The 13th Amendment, was written and ratified, more than 6 months AFTER the end of the Civil war.
That was sufficent to say that slaves were people, and not property...BUT...
They would officially spend another 3 years, post-war- as 3/5 of one person...and their decendents are still fighting for equal rights and protections.
(continued)
I have to admit, I would almost like to see this 'amendment' voted on...and passed. Watching the ACLU argue this in front of the U.S. Supreme Court, and having them hand down the decision that overturns it, on Constitutional grounds...would be sweet. But, it couldn't make it that far, as it's written.
[The Amendment would give] "the inalienable right to life for everyone, young or old, health(y)[sic] or ill, conscious or unconscious, born or unborn."
As someone noted, it would IMMEDIATELY overturn convictions that have the death penalty attached. As most of those who describe themselves as 'pro-life' are also 'pro-death penalty'...the voters would be split.
It would also invalidate all Living Wills and/or "DNR's (do not resuscitate orders).Not only will medical staff have to do everything possible to revive you- even if you have Stage IV cancer and are in constant pain, but it also means that no one would EVER be allowed to 'pull the plug' on a loved one. They would HAVE to be kept 'alive'...even by artifical means.
This would in turn, mean that almost no organs would ever be donated from Nevada.
It also means that any private insurance would decline to renew coverage, for those who were to find themselves with any progressive diseases, or with long-term care needs. The high costs of such 'heroic measures' would be far beyond those of average (or below) means, so after closing out the IRA, checking and savings accounts, selling the house, cars, jewelry, and all other possesions, people would turn to Medicaid to pay the bills.
As we know, Medicaid funds are only MATCHED by State funds...and we would probably never get out of debt, paying our half.
(continued again!)
We would have to make benefits, and coverage retro-active, to the date of conception, for all pregnant women. In order to do this, many agencies/corporations/etc. require a Social Security #.- so the Feds would have to sign on, as well.
Even in the event of a death, the surviving spouse would not be allowed to discard any fertilized eggs. They would have to (in the case of a male) pay a woman to have them implanted, or continue to pay for storage.
I didn't see mentioned what should occur when the time approches where the eggs have been frozen so long, that they are no longer viable. Would the owners be FORCED to implant them, regardless of their ability to pay?
I would infer, from this statement, that even in the cases of rape, incest, severe defect, or when the Mother's life is in danger- the 'unborn' would still be protected from being aborted.
But wait- the Mother in that last instance, would have a right to HER life, as well...so, who makes THAT call?
Stress, and hard work can often cause a woman to mis-carry. Does this mean that your boss would be held liable, for not letting you have an extra day off? What about the HOA who keeps writing you up, and causing you stress?
By far, the greatest threat to a pregnancy is a lack of good pre-natal care. Will this be mandatory (and therefore paid for) for ALL women? If you don't know you're pregnant after 4 weeks, is there a penalty? 6 weeks? What if you can't get an appointment with an OB for a week or so- at what point must the care be given, before it's criminal?
What is considered a 'threat to life' of a fetus? Is it the Mother having unprotected sex? Drinking coffee/soda/alcohol? Taking Drugs? Rehab? Skydiving? Driving a car?
It's silly, on its face. Please don't take up the voter's time, on this issue.
"Let's pass a bill that relabels the death penalty "extreme post-natal abortion"." - CybScryb
I like the term "retro-active birth control" better. At least then the only buttons being pushed belong to Catholics for the most part.
I guess I woke some of the old geezers who probably on their mid-afternoon high.
Hmmmmm....they don't care if these babies get the chopped up, poisoned or chemically burned or get their brian sucked out of their skull and then thrown into trashed can.
But....OMG.....if you mention that probably most of them would grow up to be libs loyal voting Democrats....they go beserk.
"Hmmmmm....they don't care if these babies get the chopped up, poisoned or chemically burned or get their brian sucked out of their skull and then thrown into trashed can."
The procedure you described happens in an infinitesimal amount of procedures (less than 2%). There are only two doctors IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY who perform the procedure you describe.
More babies die of SIDS than by late-term abortion, but I don't see anyone rushing to pass laws prohibiting the use of cribs.
A woman does not just wake up one morning at 7 months pregnant and decide that today she's going to have an abortion. That's ludicrous.
But it makes a good talking point, doesn't it?
stgrock just loves, loves, LOVES to talk gore.
Don't get him started on WATERBOARDING!
Acccording to a study by Plan Parenthood over 95% of abortions are due to purely birth control and have nothing to do with rape or incest.
Abortion is the ultimate sex contraceptive.
I guess we can throw that whole "she has control over her body" thingy out the window.
Like I said, abortions are weeding out more potential lib Democrat voters than potential right voters.
"Acccording to a study by Plan Parenthood over 95% of abortions are due to purely birth control and have nothing to do with rape or incest."
Uh-huh. They just lumped it all together as "birth control" did they?
Googles "planned parenthood abortion 95 percent".
A lot of results, but none citing the statistic you're throwing up there.
You're lying. But what else is new?
Rock:
The biggest flaw in your logic?
That we lib Dems, tend to be more willing to march our Daughters in to the Doc, for birth control, rather than make irrational demands that she abstain, then stick our heads back into the sand...until it comes time to be a RINO- you know, at the abortion clinic.
All you religious fanatics should mind your own business, and stop making irrational and ridiculous rationalizations about abortion. Mind your own business, and stop proclaiming you know when life starts. Comparing abortion to slavery is absolutely absurd, and irrelevant. I feel for my son and all the other children that have this type of B.S. to look forward to...
Read it and weep.
Full study
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/psrh/full...
More Readable summary
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/a...
Alan Guttmacher Institute is a division of Planned Parenthood.
homer, couldn't have said it better, sperm such as the rock and stevem never developed a brain stem.
Boy, Rock, you really did gimmick the numbers to reach your conclusion.
My stats professor would have flunked you for that.
Mr. Math expert.....what is your total for non-rape and non-incest??????
"Mr. Math expert.....what is your total for non-rape and non-incest??????"
What my math is is irrelevant.
YOU use some slight-of-hand and jiggery-pokery to make the stats say what you want. That's called "massaging the numbers".
It's unethical, and typical behavior from you. When the facts don't fit, make them fit. Then shout down anyone who dares to call you on your baloney.
vegas_lefty -- good one!
The basis of law is what's good for the people. This proposed new amendment to Nevada's organic law is overreaching to the point of arbitrary control. A woman getting an abortion is her own choice she's free to make, thanks to Roe v. Wade and other rulings. Limiting those choices serves only to satisfy others' narrow, irrelevant morality, nothing at all for the greater good.
"Morality is the herd instinct in the individual." -- Frederich Nietzsche
My church says that people which (sic) sin must be punished for their evil deeds.
Killing babies will fetch the fearless frothing foment of the moment of demise.
And so the Rockster plans his 'in LOCO parentis' attack on decency, logic and the American way.
Go git them bastards, Nance. Learn 'em of the righteous and the glory. Make babies. Make babies.
From the assorted postings here, it would appear that there are two arguments supporting abortion -- a woman's right to control her body & abortion eliminates likely burdens to the rest of society.
As to the first, many people believe that right is circumscribed once conception takes place, that the fetus's right to life trumps the mother's right to abort. However, so far the Sumpreme Court has disagreed, and given popular sentiment such an opinion is unlikely to reversed (though some restrictions may be imposed). I think that the right to life movement would find more success, though not complete success, by aggressively supporting alternatives to abortion versus attempting to outlaw it completely.
As to the "social burden argument", there are plenty of adults around who are burdens -- prisons, jails, homes, and the streets are full of them. Many are actually threats to society. Maybe they should be "aborted" along with the innocent?
and we smart, clean ones can cook and eat the dirty dumb ones, ghuh?
Douglas Democrat kicks a weak punt out-of-bounds.
hey....if you are going to accuse somebody of something at least act like a man.
Wussy.....
While I personally believe a woman has the right to choose, I also don't think it should be used as a form of birth control. And for people like SrgtRock up there who places blame solely on the woman, remember, it takes two to tango. I got pregnant on birth control, and I had my son. However, during the times while I was laid off, and had no income, if my husband and I were to have gotten pregnant...let's just say we would've discussed our options thoroughly. At the same time, I used to know this girl, who had approximately 6 - 7 abortions, because she was just irresponsible, and that to me is UNACCEPTABLE. People just need to take precautionary measures and be responsible for their own actions. Also, what gets to me is these "pro-lifers" that say it's so evil: what about rape, or incestuous rape? You REALLY want to make that woman have that baby? I'll bet these are the same types of people that get so up in arms when they want to teach about birth control and proper condom use in school. The question then would be: how many of these unplanned pregnancies are from high school aged children? Kids are going to be curious about sex, and unfortunately, it's happening younger and younger. Shouldn't they be at least educated about safe sex? When my son gets older, I'll definitely be talking openly with him, and informing him, so he'll make the right decisions.
vegas-lefty and killerB and Sassy Italian:
Excellent posts.
And what always bothered me with these pro-lifers is that MOST were always MEN spouting off on what a woman should or should not do with her body, and that includes all these do-gooders and their "laws" they want to put into effect and the politicians. If you don't want anymore abortions, get a vastectomy. Why always blame it on the women?
Oh and one more thing, something that's always baffled me: What exactly do the extremist pro-lifers (and yes, I realize they're not ALL that way) hope to accomplish when they kill abortion doctors and bomb the clinics, at the same time screaming that "every life counts!!"
Can we say "oxyMORON"??
Det_Munch -- like I've said before, unless one has a womb or invested in what's gestating in one, one's opinion is completely irrelevant. The rest is just the tyranny of the herd.
It should be the womans choice.
Individual life begins at birth with the first breath.
As Dennis Miller (Yes, THAT Dennis Miller) once said:
"One di...detective: no vote." (sorry Munch!)
But- I do think that it's wrong to hold the man 'hostage'...
I believe that the male in question, should be responsible for half the cost of the abortion, when it's agreed on.
When she is (yes) CHOOSING to have the baby- over the male's objection- he has the responsibility to offer to pay for the entire thing...in writing, with her signature.
Should the female still choose to bear that child, and then choose to RAISE that child- I do not believe that he should be required to pay child support.
At any time, should he change his mind, and decide he wants to have contact with said child- he should then be required to pay all retro-active support.(even if the 'child' is an adult, at that point.)
Just as you cannot FORCE me not to abort- I should not be able to FORCE you, to be a parent.
JMO