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StumbleJobless rate climbs to 13.8 percent in Las Vegas area
Monday, March 8, 2010 | 6:53 a.m.
Sun Coverage
CARSON CITY – The jobless rate in the Las Vegas area jumped to 13.8 percent in January, the 13th consecutive month of double-digit unemployment.
Hardest hit was the construction industry, where employment fell from 63,000 in December 2009 to 51,700 in January. But there was a rebound in gaming employment in January with 151,200 on the job, compared to 146,200 in December.
The Nevada Department of Employment, Training and Rehabilitation reported today that statewide, the seasonally adjusted jobless rate was 13 percent with an estimated 187,700 people out of work. The 13 percent compares to the national average of 9.7 percent for January.
In the Las Vegas area there were an estimated 135,900 workers jobless, compared to 128,200 in December. The department said manufacturing employment dropped from 22,900 in December to 20,300. Employment in utilities, transportation and trade declined from 154,500 in December to 142,000 in January.
The department said the Reno-Sparks area posted a 13.5 percent jobless rate, up from 12.7 percent in December. Carson City’s unemployment rate grew from 12.7 percent in December to 13.8 percent in January. The jobless rate in Elko rose to 8.1 percent compared to 7.1 percent in December.
William Anderson, chief economist for the department, said “as usual in January employers made seasonal cuts to employment, though this year’s decline was not as drastic as last year’s.”
The Las Vegas area lost 17,100 jobs, Reno-Sparks lost 7,100 and Carson City lost 900.
Anderson said, “Due to the nature of the recession, particularly the negative effect on the construction sector, a traditionally male-dominated industry, some have come to term the downturn as a ‘mancession.’”
The unemployment rate for the state’s male population averaged about 13.4 percent in the 12 months ending in January. The rate for women was 9.4 percent.
Anderson said one year ago the male and female jobless rates were “roughly equal.”
He also said the unemployment rate has hit hardest at the black population, at 18.2 percent in the past 12 months. The jobless rate among Hispanics was 17 percent. The unemployment rate for white Nevadans stood at 11.4 percent for the past 12 months.
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The Sun
Locally owned and independent for more than 50 years.
Reid is jumping up and down with pure joy for only 7,700 Nevadans lost their jobs last month.
GOOD THING WE HAVE THAT 1.8% TAXED MINING INDUSTRY UP IN ELKO TO SAVE US.
FROM THE SUN ON FEB 20, 2010:
"...Elko County, with its mining economy, posted a 37.8 percent gain in taxable sales...."
HERE'S THE GEM FROM DEANNIE-BOY HELLER FROM THE SUN FEB 23, 2010:
"...Heller told a weekend crowd at the Republican Party's Lincoln Day Dinner in Elko that Washington's efforts to continue extending unemployment benefits for jobless Americans may be creating a dependent class, unable to get back to work, according to the Elko Daily Free Press.
"Is the government now creating hobos?" Heller asked...."
AND TO THINK THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING CLARK COUNTY WATER CONNECTION FEE MONEY TO HELP THEIR POOR UNEDUCATED 'HOBO CLASS' WHO HAVE ALL THAT DOUGH TO SPEND, ANYWAY.
AND *WHO* DO WE HAVE TO THANK FOR THIS....?
Sorry to read this,I guess Nevadans must go to other states to look for work.Its a big world out there.
It's a wonderful job you are doing Mr. Obama. Why don't you raise taxes some more?
This is because the Dave Ramsey Radio Show and other such neo-monastic financial advisers have told people not to spend money or buy anything and to eat beans and rice til their homes are paid off. My neighbor was going to buy a billiard table, then his wife told him not to because of Dave Ramsey.
The area would have done better if we were the first state to allow gay marriage. Many people would have come to get married and spend money. It was Richard Ziser and talk-show host Alan Stock of kxnt that promoted the ballot question that stopped this money maker for the state.
"Sorry to read this,I guess Nevadans must go to other states to look for work.Its a big world out there."
Sample Unemployment Rates by State
Rhode Island - 12.7%
California - 12.5%
Ohio - 10.8%
Texas - 8.2%
Minnesota - 7.3%
Where should they go? Most states are either worse off than we are, or are less percentage-wise but more in raw numbers (8.2% in Texas is a lot more people than 13% here).
People are reluctant to hire out of state people, who just relocated. If you lived in South Dakota and had to hire someone, who would you hire: 1) A person who grew up in the state and live there for 30 years, with a home and a family there? or: 2) A person that just moved from Nevada and lives in the Budget Suites?
If the qualifications are equal, people opt for the local person because they feel they stick around longer.
One of the main drivers of the unemployment (besides some of the weird stuff on talk radio) are people like Sue and Paulie Lowden, who lay-off one hundred people as they take big bonuses for themselves. They then overwork the remaining employees, who fear for their jobs. People must toll away making 1/2 pound chili cheese dogs on slave like wages.
No Yucca.
Cancelled three new coal plants.
Environmental extremism demands a lower standard of living. Thanks Harry. Enjoy.
"Cancelled three new coal plants."
Because building coal plants in a state that has no coal mines (thus requiring 100% of the fuel needed for the plant brought in from other states) makes a heck of a lot of sense.
By DouglasDemocrat's reasoning you will have a better chance of finding work if you go to California. Huh?
DD, a percentage reflects not only those not working but also the availability of jobs.
Typical Democrat spin attempt. Must be sharing a computer with mred who's licking his lips hoping Nevada will allow gay marriage.
Didn't Reid say it's a good day in America?? What an idiot! He needs to be run OUT of Washington and go to work for a change.
I didn't think DD could reason and turns out I'm correct.
"By DouglasDemocrat's reasoning you will have a better chance of finding work if you go to California. Huh?"
No, you've got it backwards...as usual.
Even though California's unemployment rate is LOWER percentage-wise than Nevada, there are MORE people over there out of work and looking for work. Same with Minnesota and Texas. So moving there may look good for your job prospects on paper, in reality it's a bad choice.
Job prospects in other states depends on your particular job skills and whether there is a match in another state. Construction work is at a standstill pretty much around the country. No point for a construction worker to relocate, unless they move into a new profession. In a recession environment, it seems the only work will be jobs with companies who win contracts the gov't from the stimulus package, nursing because people still get sick, and possibly work in help people alter their mortgages. It seems to me that there are so many absentee owners in LV that it might be possible for someone to start a business that manages the properties on their behalf - this is probably the best bet.
A 14% unemployment rate brought to you by the policies of Reid, Pelosi, Obama and the Democratic Congres. Don't you get the feeling it's just going to keep climbing.
Nevada's problem with the unemployed is the same in South Dakota, California, Texas..name any state..it is the unemployed who refuse to go to work and forego a milk ticket.
"it is the unemployed who refuse to go to work and forego a milk ticket."
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
Best time to come to Las Vegas. You'll never see real estate deals like this in your lifetime ever again. "When their is panic in the streets, it's time to buy"....Warren Buffet.
The government always tweeks the unemployment rate to look better than what it is. So the 13.8% is far from accurate and is much higher. As for moving to another state for jobs, that may be a good idea for some people. In Texas, for instance, they don't have near the budget short falls and not teetering on bankruptcy which Nevada and California have to deal with, meaning the jobs picture will be bleak for many many years. Just do your homework first. Just my opinion.
"It seems to me that there are so many absentee owners in LV that it might be possible for someone to start a business that manages the properties on their behalf - this is probably the best bet."
There are plenty of these places in Las Vegas - property management companies. These places have been in Vegas for years. You just have to find the one that is going to do the job, ie collect the rents, monitor if the tenants are abiding by the HOA R&R's, check the property on a regular basis so the tenants haven't moved out in the middle of the night, etc.
"...it is the unemployed who refuse to go to work and forego a milk ticket."
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
PRICELESS, DD!
<<it is the unemployed who refuse to go to work and forego a milk ticket.>>
tis better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Are you people seriously blaming this on the current administration, or any politician? I can't believe I even have to say this because it's so obvious...our city is almost completely reliant on one industry, which is almost completely reliant on disposable income (even the convention business benefited heavily on wasteful spending by corporations). With an economy just coming out of a recession, it's going to take some time for people to spend again. The current crop of properties appear to have been built under the assumption that people were going to continue to spend money they didn't have, and it was never going to catch up with them.
Face it, this town gambled on one industry. We looked brilliant when every bum could get a credit card with $10K available credit, but now that the economy is a little more realistic, we struggle. Not surprising, and not the fault of Pelosi, Bush, Obama, Reagan, or Clinton. We need to take some responsibility for our decisions and stop acting like victims.
Post By PierreBeauRegard
"Nevada's problem with the unemployed is the same in South Dakota, California, Texas..name any state..it is the unemployed who refuse to go to work and forego a milk ticket."
Do the math. Almost 200,000 people out of work. How many available jobs? A few thousand. They would need about 20 City Centers worth of builders or workers. Oh wait. A good percentage of those 10,000 City Center jobs were eliminated or reduced to on call for only a few hours a week.
I just wish some of those people that always post comments that the unemployed are lazy and enjoy living off a few hundred a week meet the same fate soon. Then maybe you would understand it's not so easy to relocate when your a homeowner. Also that it's very stressful not knowing if you can pay your bills, or wondering when your employment benefits will be stopped. Unable to directly many companies about a job except thru a website or email that many times provides no response. And when you get an interview there is a line of people all day long for the job. Sometimes you get a offer is not a real job or is even questionable if it meets state labor laws.
Other than cheap shot artist, harry reids only other skill appears to the uncanny ability to crush what little economic diversity this state has, or, had.
One can only surmise harry is in the pockets of strip casino operators and the democrat party.
What happened to all those business-owners in Cali and Oregon rushing our borders in search of Nevada's low taxes?
opening a busness in LV is a craps shoot. Low taxes are not going to be the reason for me opening a business here now..
The low rates will still be key for our state over time.
- Mark Szczygiel
Active1-you are wasting your time on Pierre, with this subject. He firmly believes 13.8% of the population (actually well over 20% if you use real numbers) are lazy freeloaders. Pretty funny for a man who regularly tots the virtues of critical analysis.
You have one major business in Las Vegas (Casino's, Gaming)and you have way to many people in Las Vegas.They are unemployed and refuse to leave.Things are going to get darker before the lights come back on.You need to go out of state or start you own business,The Gov. will not keep passing out those ck.forever.Its a Big world out there.(F.T.A.)(LOL)
Wolf85023, your probably right however they need somewhere to go. And actually dont be so sure the gov will not keep passing out checks forever. I mean after all this last cluster, was the third time they bail citi out in the last 30 years and it cost a hell of a lot more than covering unemployment checks
Read about Sue Lowden's long record of laying off workers and cutting their benefits while taking bonuses.
http://www.harryreid.com/ee/index.php/ne...
"You need to go out of state or start you own business"
A) See my point above. Going out of state isn't going to help someone get a job. Not to mention that if they don't have a job in the first place, how can they afford to relocate somewhere else?
B) The National Federation of Independent Business estimates that 60% of all small businesses never turn a profit (they either only break even or remain at a loss until they fail). Not good odds.
We can blame ALL of the politicians of this state for current escalating problems here in our state, despite what inproveLV say's about we the people taking responsibility for our decisions, and stopping acting like victims.The elected so called leaders of our state are expected to do their jobs of protecting the people when times are easy and hard! Reid get an F, as does Gibbons, Ensign, and the whole bunch! vote them ALL out of office next election and get some new blood in here before they succeed in destroying what's left.
It's only a matter of time before the unemployment benefit milk ticket goes dry, and all of the unemployed Marxist-Democrat libtards have to go to work at Burger King, and internet websites like this one will be freed up for decent exchange of ideas.
Pierre:
"It is the nature of every person to error, but only the fool perseveres in error." - Cicero
Martin123
I am just saying Las Vegas will be the Last to recover because people will start buying homes and other things they need in other states.Las Vegas can not support all these people.Las Vegas had a huge influx of people when the building boom was on,but that over.People should look at other states and countries for work. Unemployment was design for short term not long term.
Burger king Pierre? Maybe you should take a math class before you make any more stupid posts.
Burger King
12,000 Outlets (less than 8,000 in USA)
73 Countries
37,000 Employees world wide (less than 4 employees per outlet average)
So we would need to build 50,000 Burger Kings in Las Vegas to meet you goal. That's assuming you only hire locals. Who's going to eat all em burgers? Guess they would have to lay off all those Marxist burger makers. Back to 200,000 locals unemployed. And you would have a foreclosed Burger King problem x 50,000 locations.
Any more bright ideas?
Another stupid republican plan.
How about another tax break for the top 5% income earners?
wake up, wake uppp, the good old days of bush economics have solidified. ron regan, bush 1, clinton, bush 2, obama, their all corportists. keep defending these rich people you idiots, how's that workin for ya vegas. all your rich buddies have sent all our jobs overseas. look around your house, clothes, computers, tv's , etc-etc-how many made in the usa. we're all servants to these rich as-----s. you do the scrabble.
This wouldn't be a problem if all these people actually looked for work instead of sitting back and collecting the boatloads of free cash the state hands out. Lazy schmucks should just get a job, even if there aren't any available.
umm...no.
rich people did not send jobs overseas.
they found labor for the lowest cost. it just happened to be outside of the u.s.a.
nobody is going to hire anyone unless democrats get destroyed this next election.
democrats = we take money.
republicans = we male money.
stevem's logic;
"rich people did not send jobs overseas.
they found labor for the lowest cost. it just happened to be outside of the u.s.a."
Ooh kay.
It's cool for Corporate America to use slave labor, cheap labor, pakistani labor, Mexican sweat shops, etc.
because stevem says it's best to MAXIMIZE CORPORATE PROFITS AT ALL COSTS.
Forest for the trees.
Active1- thats exactly what we need 50,000 Burger Kings. You forgot to mention the construction boom it would bring. I the spirit of compet some of that 50,000 should be set aside for McDonalds and Wendys (Maybe a couple of Robertos too)
Stevem-
"rich people did not send jobs overseas.
they found labor for the lowest cost. it just happened to be outside of the u.s.a."
That is one of the dumber posts today. Of course they did who do you think made the decision, the guys in the mail room. The jobs were sent overseas and cheap labor was the reason. Of course the people they employ can never afford to buy the product they make and pretty soon either will the people who previously made it. Business is notoriously short sighted. OHHHH , cheap labor lets go. Of course that may be a indicator of there crappy business savy needing to rely on labor cost cutting only.
Why is it that one of the highest labor cost markets in the world is also one of the biggest exports (per capita it is THE largest exporter) China only recently passed it and only by 80 billion dollars. Of course china will probably lose that as our appetite for cheap crap and happy meal toys will drop because people cant afford the m anymore. Care to take a guess what country I'm referring to? Maybe our business "leaders" should go take some lessons.
I continue to be amused at the simple minded contrivances that the Marxist-Democrats put forth on the terrible problem of unemployment benefits thievery by them.
WOW ,Pierre from simply disagreeing with your everyone should work at Burger King theory you have discerned they are Marxist and Democrats. Is that critical analysis?
You know if people like you keep spouting nonsense soon there will be people wearing Che Guevara t-shirts who actually know how he was and not only idiot kids.
stevem is exactly where rich people want to take us, or should i say have taken us, middle class race to the bottom. same as------ who whine and cry about social safety nets. same folks who NEVER served a day for this country. i'll never see it cause i'm to old, but keep this rich only crud up and someday you'll see a rebillion where have not's will be coming into these fancy communities and killing rich people for food. don't think it can happen, keep it up
I take it formervegas76 is not rich.
formervegas76 is typical of the bitter lower class.
someone drops 10 lemons on 2 doorsteps.
rich house = let's make lemonade and we'll sell it and make money.
poor house = let's throw these through the window of the rich house and steal their t.v.
and no..there is NOTHING wrong with a company finding labor at the lowest cost.
that's BUSINESS, you stupid liberals.
give me a business owner that went into to business to "make kind of a profit"...or "a little bit of profit"...and i'll show you a failed business owner.
liberals are all "caring and sharing" and that's why so few of them have the stones to win in the business world so they hide in unions, the become teachers, etc.
the whole idea IS to maximize profits. that's how you get investors, that's how you pay the rent, that's how you pay...wait for it...i know this is a BIG concept...that's how you pay for homes, cars, clothes, meals at restaurants. that gives THOSE businesses money to advertise on www.lasvegassun.com and gives you "we hate rich people...but we like using their money" something to do each day.
if you made widgets and a part #78 of that widget was $9.00 from a supplier in ohio or $6.00 in china...you would...and SHOULD pick the $6.00 one.
if a union goon wants $30.00 per hour to put "tab a" into "slot b" and someone in mexico will do it for $10.00?
i'll pick the $10.00 guy and contemplate my morals while sitting on the beach with a mai tai and an asian stripper.
Hey, it's going up to 14% soon... I'm bringing my whole family to Vegas from the snow-ridden east! Can't wait for my Gov. checks to start flowing in.....
With figures as dismal as this it's time to think about moving on.
"i'll pick the $10.00 guy and contemplate my morals while sitting on the beach with a mai tai and an asian stripper."
That'll be a short contemplation, since you've just proven you have none.
Your Lemon analogy would make a bit more sense if you choose traits or characteristics to based it on rather than net worth. Its telling that you assume "rich" people are hard working and innovative, while "poor" people are lazy thieves.Sounds like you are not capable of grasping the larger concept here.
You see, Steve when companies are born, grow and develop in one environment you know, using silly little services like, roads, infrastructure, police, fire, court systems to protect there interests and schools to teach them and their employees to read jumping ship to produce to produce in your product in China for instance, only to reimport and use all those services again to sell your product in the market that affords you all of those things, well thats a little rotten. Its a bit like IBM taking investor money and giving it to Dell in some back room deal.
Moreover Steve the basic problem it creates is eventually you kill the market you sell in ( Chinese workers are not going to buy their product) but thats not a problem for them, you see they already have figured that out. They will and are simply developing their presence in that market so when ours dies they will simply be an Asian company, of course the money will come home to papa. A good example is GM, bail them out (not real capitalistic is it) before the deal is done they are explaining in the Brazilian press that they will be investing a billion dollars in new Brazilian plants, more over they had the stones to say it was going to be with bailout money. Of course the simple minded do not understand the reality of what we have now:
Capitalism for small business and individuals
Socialism for large companies and well connected indivduals.
You see Steve large businesses are short sighted often, other times they just dont give a crap about you, me, anyone reading this or this country. That maybe hard to understand for the people who beleive the fantasy that we are or where built upon a great winner take all , free wheeling market, but its true.
Dont believe it?
Thats why you had Glass-Steagall inacted during the depression (wow, didnt the repeal of that so financial institutions dont have that pesky regulation of the whining socialist, led to the current problem in the financial market, hummmmmm yep it sure did, what you got was big $ for large institutions and tax payers to bail them out and pay for their unregulated derivatives and swaps. They got their money, didnt cover their down side3 risk, we did. Socialism for them ,capitalism for us)
Anti trust actions: you remember those in school right? They where taken to bust very large businesses from running small businesses, like you and the majority of employers in the US, into the dirt and increase comp.
business is brutal.
business is beautiful.
nature is brutal.
nature is beatiful.
is a cheetah lacking morals because it picks the slowest gazelle to eat?
is a business lacking morals because it find the lowest cost to produce goods, and then passes those savings onto their customers?
Lets look at a timeline, before these and many other acts where put into effect, the US was not the industrial power or dynamic force we know it as.
We should take your approach lets just open the doors and let them run wild to make maximize profits! Of course you will be crushed, if you think you could compete in a completely unregulated market place your a fool. And I sure hope you never bit** about illegal immagrants, after all they are here just giving businesses a chance to maximize their profits. (At least they live here and buy things here, your guys never put a penny back in the economy here.) Better yet lets just open the doors so they dont have the trouble of dealing with production so far away. Let see we can get our IT and Engineers from India ( thats where your guys are sending the jobs any way) oh, yea doctors too, labor and skilled trades from Mexico and China.
The point is simply jumping and not only making it easy to do so is really hurting us.
A large part of the overseas production is based on piss poor management and business practices. Period!! Driven in large part by short term thinking to produce short term quarterly revenue and "profit" (as we have seen the once simple formula for profit revenue-cost=profit has been perverted with bs accounting) so the bonuses arefat and juicy (Just like all the banks, insurance, construction and manufacturing companies did who are now begging and broke, make beleive profits do not stick)
That is why as I said earlier countries with muchhhhh higher labor costs are spanking us in exports (hummm they can not only make a profit but can ship it to the rest of the world ) Oh and interestingly enough their CEOs usually dont get massive bonuses for make believe results like ours do.
What do you think made this country a success? Traits a side, "rich people" or the middle class. And don't cop out with "rich people made the middle class" bs"
plenty of other countries have plenty of rich people, yet no middle class.
See Steve you are amazingly naive.
"is a business lacking morals because it find the lowest cost to produce goods, and then passes those savings onto their customers?"
Hummmmmm, so many examples.
Lets take Nike, use to make shoes in the US $29.99
No make them in "COMMUNIST CHINA" for $3.00 and sell them here for $125
Yea pass those savings on...
Beside, the major problem we face is: bail out GM-In a new report covered by Automotive News [sub], Goldman Sachs says GM will end the year with $12.5 billion in cash, and will need at least $22b in government money to survive.
Thank you , now we will close US plants and keep Mexican plants open because Steve believes we should maximize our profits at all cost, thanks dummies.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503983_162-5...
Sounds like you operate under the false belief that all of the economy capitalist. Only we are the big boys have Che Guevara shirts on and read Karl Marx as a nighty night story.
The property management stuff can get expensive, an absentee landlord can get jammed with a lot of expenses.
A number of these small businesses are phoney, people just borrow money and go BK. Notice a number of small businesses are going under now, even give away rents aren't saving them.
DesertSun:
"A 14% unemployment rate brought to you by the policies of Reid, Pelosi, Obama and the Democratic Congres. Don't you get the feeling it's just going to keep climbing."
You're 100% right about this. Harry, Nancy, and the POTUS did contribute to this, by their refusal to continue spending the taxpayer's monies on privately owned businesses, in shady back-room deals.(a la Blackwater.)
Why is it the people who speak out so stridently against humanitarian welfare, remain silent when it comes to corporate welfare (and it's abuses)?
SteveM:
"i'll pick the $10.00 guy and contemplate my morals while sitting on the beach with a mai tai and an asian stripper."
Holy Meadow-Muffins, Batman! You have some real stones, my friend. With all the Asian-American strippers out of work, you'd outsource even THAT?
Martin:
"Let see we can get our IT and Engineers from India ( thats where your guys are sending the jobs any way) oh, yea doctors too, labor and skilled trades from Mexico and China."
Don't forget about teachers. Might as well import THEM as well- someone needs to teach our kids how to speak the language of BUSINESS.
Mred- I dont believe any significant number of these businesses were "phony". A) 99% of money borrowed by businesses , small business is required to be personally guaranteed by the owner. Any thing "cash like" loans or credit lines anyway. And BK is not that simple, is can and is deemed non dischargeable in a situation like that and pretty easy to see.
You are right about landlords getting jammed up and it can happen very fast.
Vixen - that darn Steve has some nerves out sourcing the stripper- shame on you Steve the least you could do is support the American Silicone industry.
Vixen - your right. The saddest or funniest depending on how you ask was: IBM laying off 12,000 engineers who completed a massive hardware and networking project that allowed real time interactive sharing of massive amounts of data in a secure system. Then promptly replaced them with 12,000 Indian engineers using the system they designed.
Yea Steve now they have lots of time for Asian strippers and mai tai's , well atleast the ones with out a family, and who can still afford it.
While I am ranting........why dont all of the "business is brutal" crowd bag on all the stake holders (shareholders) of Citi, Aig, B of A, Wells Fargo, Chase, Goldman, GMAC, GM and the other billion dollar hobos after all their stocks, bonds, mutual funds retirement accounts and pensions directly benefited form the socialistic bail out that would have left their holding worthless or near worthless. SOCIALISTS, yep if you own even one single share off their stock or a mutual fund holding thier stock or a pension fund holding their stock you are a SOCIALIST!!!! Give me my money back Comrade!!!
The economy in Vegas will come around at a much slower rate than most other places... It's the nature of the beast....
Tourism depends upon people having extra money to spend, and until the average American has the money to spend on such things as entertainment, gaming, and vacations, don't look for the local economy to get well again...
Even before the start of our current recession, it was evident that a huge bubble was floating over the valley, and that bubble was just waiting to burst...
Everything in the Vegas valley has been over-built. Gaming over extended itself; the construction industry over extended itself; the typical wage earner over extended himself.....
Look at the amount of debt that the average family in carrying...This is true in not only Las Vegas but through out the country. The typical American family owes approximately $10,000.00 in credit card debt.....
Look at how many Americans owe more on their mortgages than their house is worth... The value of many homes in the Vegas valley has fallen by as much as 40%-50%....
It may be 2013 or 2014 before Vegas completely recovers....Even then we won't see a "boom" economically, like we've experienced for the past 25-30 years.
The party is over, at least for a while.....
martin123...here's the thing...
people still BUY nike shoes.
so, obviously, people don't CARE that they are made in china and you know why they are $125?
because people every weekend BUY a pair for $125.
that's the margin they require to pay tiger, jordan, etc. to endorse their shoes...so more dumb people will PAY $125 for those shoes.
and yes...if the hot thai girl at olympic garden charges $20.00 for lapdance and the equally hot thai girl at scores charges $10.00 for a lapdance...how many of you "workers of the world unite" folks would still go to the $20.00 girl?
employment cost is no different. and i feel sad for those of you that either can't understand that, or don't WANT to understand that.
any of you people gone to burger king, mcdonald's, taco bell, etc. in the last year or two?
well...i got news for you. those workers aren't making $20.00 per hour, but you still buy those burgers, huh?
is a cheetah lacking morals because it picks the slowest gazelle to eat?
What happens when there are no more gazelles for the cheetah to eat?
The Indians and the Chinese won't be buying your products because they manufacture their own knock offs.
Steve you obviously missed you own point, "pass the saving on to consumers" so you agree labor cost where cut and price has risen. Of course people do buy them...a little less "every week end" and you said " dumb people" will pay $125. (insane)
I never siad I am a "worker of world unite" person, I'm just not an idiot who thinks for a minute these guys wont tell us to go to hell after , building their company on the us market ( who infrastructure they use is funded by the very people who use to make their goods) interesting when they get a boo-boo they cry for Uncle Sugar to bail them out or represent their interest at The World Trade Organization. Hummmm. we dont want your labor, we hate any regs that we may not like but protect us daddy.
And yes I would probably choose the $10 a dance girl,but I wouldnt fly to Thailand for her.
Burger King, wow they are getting a lot of free marketing here. You they arent making 20 an hour nor should they but guess what they also sell a burger for 99 cents. And those non-$20 an hour workers are right here , spending their small checks right here in the economy they work and live in. Maybe you can start a lobbing group so they can directly import their non $20 an hour workers from third wolrd countries for 20 cents an hour. After all its all about cutting labor costs.
I feel sorry for who cant understand the big picture yet think they understand business. Yea see business or a real business, operates on a cycle longer than a quarter its a marathon. You see if you have no markets because you export your businesses your market will cease to be relevant. Do you not understand that very basic concept.
To use your analogy
You drop 10 lemons off on two doors steps 1 house of smart people and 1 house of idiots.
Smart House: makes lemonade and sells it to make more lemonade and the cycle repeats or takes seeds and plants lemon trees.
Idiot House: Trades them for cheap happy meal toys and tvs', shoes, pants or anything else they can get cheap while celebrating how great hey are without understanding that when the lemons are gone they are done.
It really is that simple.
And by the way Steve The US is a business. Now to further your stripper analogy does the $20 a dance club sent its customers to the $10 a dance club. Of course not, I am fully aware of comparative advantage theory. The only way it is an absolute truth is if you are not concerned with your national well being, meaning you want your standard to drop while raising the standards of another.
Remember Steve, you said business is brutal, so why would you help other raise their standards at the expense of your own???????????????
And you never answered my question, I needd the help since i dont understand basic business and am a "worker of the world unite person" (name calling and trying to classify people with little negative labels is usually the first line of defense for someone in a debate that they know nothing about, well, except for the one line no substance theory they get from their talk shows who they allow to do thier thinking for them)
Why is it that one country in particular that has much higher labor costs than us, is the largest export on earth (per capita , by far) and the second largest total? China being number one, thanks to "cheap labor at all cost" people.
By the way, when China is a larger world force than we are and calls the shots, due to monetary and military reason you and your cheap labor at all cost doctrine paid for Ihope you have gotten all of your cheap lap dances out of the way.
Moreover, Steve when you tax base shrinks,because you've exported your businesses, so does your relevance in the world ie: you don't have as much money to pay for your military or the innovation it brings. You may be suprised to see just how many every day items we have where derived from military funded projects. Dont worry I'm sure a lot of great new products will come from Chinese military research you seem to think we should fund by your "cheap labor at all cost" doctrine.
i can't follow your rambling nonsense in regards to my posting.
it's a jumbled mess.
i did NOT miss my own point with the nike shoes. nike shoes and employment costs were 2 different thoughts in two different posts.
you're trying to take two unrelated things and put them together.
i don't care if the people at burger king make $6.00 per hour if that means my value meal costs $5.80 instead of $6.30 if they made $7.00 per hour.
am i heartless? maybe. i don't like the fact my car cost $36,000, but i bought it anyway. the FREE MARKET says that car is "worth" $36,000 and whatever those auto workers at nissan make per hour is EXACTLY what they are "worth". not a dime more.
if brad pitt was single and he and i went into pure nightclub, he would probably do a little better with the ladies than i would. i can either stomp my feet and get upset and say "pure nightclub is unfair to ugly guys" or i can do a few miles on the treadmill and go to a dive bar and have better luck.
as a matter of fact...i WANT those people at burger king to make $6.00 per hour so i CAN get that value meal for $5.80 instead of $6.30 if they made $7.00 per hour. i'd like for them to make $4.00 if legally possible so my value meal is $5.60.
but they don't need to make $4.00 per hour because they stay in business selling a $5.80 value meal and i guess if i decide i don't want to pay $5.80 for a value meal, i'll stop going there.
and the $20 lapdance girl can either a) drop HER prices down to $10 to compete with the other girl or b) be that much better at it to get people to pay $20 instead of $10.
if she does a) or b)...she'll continue to make money and put money back into the economy. if she doesn't do a) or b)...she can no longer be a stripper and she can work at burger king.
kick 30 million illegals out of my country and then give 30 million NEW JOBS to certified USA citizens. Get a passport, marshall law is coming.
BIG BROTHER IS ALREADY HERE FOLKS. THE HOME LAND SECURITY ACT IS MARSHALL LAW.
It may be rambling but it is far from nonsense, it just maybe a little to much for you to process as it contradicts your simpleton view of the world.
And YES you did miss your own point you said exactly:
"find the lowest cost to produce goods, and then passes those savings onto their customers"
I said that is not true and gave the shoe analogy. To which you agreed that people (dumb people) pay $125 for a pair of shoes. You FAILED to validate your claim "find the lowest cost to produce goods, and then passes those savings onto their customers"
Which was the basis of your argument.
The Burger King worker, is spending his $6 an hour here. Which was the point of my statement.
And as for Nissan, thank you for pointing helping my argument that "cheapest labor at all cost" doctrine is really nothing more than crappy management and poor business skills. You see, Nissan makes cars in the US, as does Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mereceds Benz, Subaru and many more. While your "cheapest labor crowd" GM and Ford are shifting more production to Mexico (thanks for the bail out money dummies). Why can they produce cars here (more profitably than GM can in Mexico) and why do they understand you dont destroy the market you sell in?
Brad Pitt?????Probably true but has absolutely NO relation to this conversation. None.
You just dont get the whole burger king point do you, they are paid what they are worth but they still spend there money here, in the economy they live in.
God you are a simpleton.
"and the $20 lapdance girl can either a) drop HER prices down to $10 to compete with the other girl or b) be that much better at it to get people to pay $20 instead of $10."
So you think the Average US salary should be lowered to match China. Then you couldnt have your Nissan, Burger King or Lap Dance. And they would have no one to sell the product to.
And to ask the question again...Why can one of highest labor cost markets in the world stomp us in exports? (if it isnt do to crappy management what is it then)
Why and how is comparative advantage beneficial to the US in this argument?
I know this whole point of view contradicts your opinion. Sometimes when we dont understand the real issues and hold a economic view that revolves around "lap dance economics in the local economy" or " the fast food meal price index" we call things we cant answer "rambling nonsense"
Steve why cant you ever answer a question directly? Heres another one you refused to answer that goes directly to your "cheapest labor at all costs" doctrine.
And by the way Steve The US is a business. Now to further your stripper analogy does the $20 a dance club sent its customers to the $10 a dance club. Of course not, I am fully aware of comparative advantage theory. The only way it is an absolute truth is if you are not concerned with your national well being, meaning you want your standard to drop while raising the standards of another.
Remember Steve, you said business is brutal, so why would you help other raise their standards at the expense of your own???????????????
I'll be glad when the unemployed people here finally get a job at Burger King.
gees stevem, a post that dosen't get removed by staff, and y'all that put down middle class are nothing but bottom dwellers, alot of resonable people have given you facts but of course your off to area 51 tonite.
we can't get jobs at Buger King we are OVERQUALIFIED! not to mention those of us that had good paying jobs would need 2 jobs at BK to pay what unemployment pays us to search for jobs which are comparable to what we lost. I am also getting denied work for applications for customer service or other administrative positions as I don't have any actual experience within their field (casino, travel, healthcare, etc). How hard can it be to use CS or Admin skills that I've used for the past 12 years in construction and use them in their line of work, doesn't make any sense to me but they don't want someone with construction experience they want someone with travel or casino or healthcare or whatever field-of-work-they-are-in experience.
Then the majority of job openings listed nowadays require special degrees and years of experience (healthcare and IT) ...don't have any of that nor can I wait 2 to 4 years to get a degree to even be able to apply for one of those jobs.
So until YOU are the one trying to get a job, please understand companies have MANY MANY MANY people to choose from so those of us without specific skills or experience within their specific field they aren't looking to hire us or we are getting declined due to being over-qualified and yes that is a REAL response.
By the way I am a life long Las Vegan who has never been out of work before. I am a relatively good looking person with a great personality and great resume...just no positions available to use my job experience and I know of several other females in the same boat as I am. There may be some out there not bothering to look but this also sits on the shoulder of the companies that are hiring being closedminded...they could do us all a favor and think outside the box a little and realize we from the Construction industry have a lot to offer we just need a chance.
Stevem,simple question.If your ideology on business is correct.Why is the Country/world in such turmoil .This isn't a simple case of profit loss .This is down to pure greed lining pockets and control.High unemployment controls the lucky ones.You step out of line you become part of the statistics.There is an age old,forgotten way of life re-emerging.It's called the company store.
Martin:
"Rambling" or not- I fully understood your examples, and I think you made some very valid points.
lmfao @ "Chinese military research" though. It's like saying 'Nazi Scientific Ethics'.
i'll answer any question directly as long as it's in fact...a direct question.
my examples of fast food and strippers ARE 100% accurate in explaining capitalism.
if anyone can show that they are wrong in THEORY and not some "touchy - feely" guilt trip way...take your best shot.
"does the $20 a dance club sent its customers to the $10 a dance club."
huh?
what are you asking here? it doesn't even make sense.
of course the $20 stripper isn't going to SEND (i think that's the verb you were trying to use) her business to the $10 stripper.
does a business ever say "you know, you could be getting a better deal down the street"?
and yes...if having a job in america making product "x" means paying someone $10.00 instead of $20.00 because someone in china can do it for $10.00...then YES, i'm sorry, but THAT'S the acceptable wage for that job.
then you ask this one...
"why would you help other raise their standards at the expense of your own???????????????"
doesn't a lower cost for goods and services actually INCREASE my standard of living? personally, i like the fact a dvd player is $90 instead of $400.
the lowest cost for employees and the nike shoe thing were UNRELATED. take 3 seconds and go up to the earlier posts. they were unrelated in 2 different patterns of thought.
things are "worth" what people will pay for them.
employees are "worth" what employers will pay for them.
do you give the cashier at albertson's a $10.00 bill so she can have a better standard of living?
no. you don't. so it's easy to spin the "american workers should make more money" when it's not coming out of YOUR pocket, huh?
and i LOVE this one...this one is priceless...
"Then the majority of job openings listed nowadays require special degrees and years of experience (healthcare and IT) ...don't have any of that nor can I wait 2 to 4 years to get a degree to even be able to apply for one of those jobs."
so...you're just going to not work ever again? i mean, you're overqualified for burger king...but underqualified for any other jobs, right? is the job fairy going to put a paycheck under your pillow tonight?
"not to mention those of us that had good paying jobs would need 2 jobs at BK to pay what unemployment pays us to search for jobs which are comparable to what we lost"
you sound LAZY and SPOILED which is the problem with most american workers.
people haven't given me FACTS, they've given me "oh boo hoo" whining.
Republicans sent all of our jobs to COMMUNIST
CHINA. Why is anyone suprised that their are no
jobs left here?
Hard to pick a starting point but here we go:
"and i LOVE this one...this one is priceless...
"Then the majority of job openings listed nowadays require special degrees and years of experience (healthcare and IT) ...don't have any of that nor can I wait 2 to 4 years to get a degree to even be able to apply for one of those jobs."- I never said that, just must be combining response.
But since you mentioned it, I do have a degree, infact it is in international business and I have worked in Brazil, Argentina, Belgium, The Netherlands and Germany so I bet I have a much better grasp on how these thing REALLY work than a person who argues economic theory based on " lap dance economics" or "the fast food meal price index".
"people haven't given me FACTS, they've given me "oh boo hoo" whining."- HAHAA you have yet to give one single fact. Only opinion which is based on your obvious limited understanding of the world.
"the lowest cost for employees and the nike shoe thing were UNRELATED. take 3 seconds and go up to the earlier posts. they were unrelated in 2 different patterns of thought."- I do not need to go back and read it I remember what you said ( I even provided you with your own sentence, which you choose to ignore. To revisit you said, they find the lowest labor cost and pass the savings on to the consumer. I that isnt always true (usually not) And ask about the shoe example now made in China, very little labor cost yet price is 5 to 6 times higher. You said people still buy them "every weekend" Where directly related, unless of course you were rambling and avoiding the fact that nooooo they did not pass on the savings.
Things are worth what people will pay for them correct. So whats your point?
No I do not give the Albertsons checker an extra $10 ( of course if you had your way I might because she'd probably be a chinese illegal immigrant making $2.35 a week) In any event what ever they are paid is spent here in our economy not transplanted to Shanghai.
"so it's easy to spin the "american workers should make more money" when it's not coming out of YOUR pocket, huh?"
I never said that stop making up silly statements and putting "" marks to make it appear as if I said it. Since you brought it up , they do typically. Thats why you have this wonderful lifestyle you enjoy, its called the middle class.
"why would you help other raise their standards at the expense of your own???????????????"
You obviously can not grasp the question. It refers to the direct relationship of shipping your manufacturing base overseas. This is evident by the fact that, our middle class has shrunk and wealth differential is farr greater than it has been at any point since World War II. Moreover appearantly you are not familiar with the shift economist are trying to calculate the effects of: the rising of Brazil, China and India. As they standard of living rises yours will fall (statistically )So why would you believe its a good idea to accelerate the effects? Believe me you are not smarter, better, harder working than they are, you had the good fortune of being born here.
"doesn't a lower cost for goods and services actually INCREASE my standard of living? personally, i like the fact a dvd player is $90 instead of $400."
First your DVD player wouldnt cost $400 if made here, stop being dramatic. Does a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru made here cost more than a equal GM made in Mexico? No, because : a) they are managed will b) GM hides behind "labor cost" to compensate for stupitiy and inability to manage a company.
""does the $20 a dance club sent its customers to the $10 a dance club."
huh?
what are you asking here? it doesn't even make sense."-
Makes perfect sense based on you example. A dancer works for the club does the club sent the customer
to the cheaper labor club. The US is in a sense a business, it is a complete system which you are part of, why does it create incentives for the client to go to the lower labor market? Probably a bad analogy, I admit.
"If anyone can show that they are wrong in THEORY and not some "touchy - feely" guilt trip way...take your best shot."- I have not made any touchy feely arguments (other than the ones you have tried to attribute me that I never said) Beside if I had it would have been along the lines of you kids or grand kids living a lifestlye far below yours because your "cheap labor at all costs " doctrine traded any way our hard earned industrial base and dynamic economy so you can have a cheap DVD player rather than actually learn how to manage a company.
"i'll answer any question directly as long as it's in fact...a direct question"-
NO you obviously will not, you have yet to do so.
So lets list them as stand alone questions
Why can they (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, BMW, Mercedes Benz) produce cars here (more profitably than GM can in Mexico) and why do they understand you dont destroy the market you sell in?
Why and how is comparative advantage beneficial to the US in this argument?
Why is it that one country in particular, Germany has much higher labor costs than us, is the largest export on earth (per capita , by far) and the second largest total? They CRUSH us in trade balances and current accounts.
My original point was piss poor management and business skills have sent our manufacturing base overseas to compensate for there short comings. I will give you
Teamster, why has German management figured how to operate in very high labor cost environment and still A) turn a profit (real profits not make believe accounting B) Be an exporting monster, in fact they dominate in exports.
I believe it is because they are far more business savvy and are actually interested in long term business health (unlike the pirates who have taken over our companies) and the government does not reward them for selling their industrial base.
I want people at Taco Bell to make $6.00 per hour, too. I also want more colossal budget cuts to hit UCLA, LAUSD, and UNLV because my prop taxes are a disaster. No doubt about it--there is now HUGE pressure on prices to stay low. That's why Redbox is growing and Blockbuster is closing stores. Check out the documentary "Flying Cheap" on PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...
stevem-- you are talking out your ass as i have a small business that does make a profit and i would not be in business to be broke... I say I will never be rich like you but i make a dam good living doing what my services offer... You contradict yourself saying most business fails and then you say you will be on a beach with some has been hooker...I would think you are dilusional and are really bankrupt in some alley with the chinese man that you had making your product sipping sewer water out of the gutter...Thinking your business would be successful and in reality have you ever had a business or something close to it...Talk is cheap and action is king in my world...
China soaked up the world's production. It's sad to see that great companies such as Microsoft, Dell, Apple, etc, are also producing in China. These were the key companies of the modern American economy.
The crux about Vegas' unemployment is that if there are not enough tourists coming to Vegas to spend their money, you can build as many new hotels as you want, but it won't be effective and meet the expectations. Unemployment will be the same until more output will be necessary.
Lucky are the people who have a job, or a running business, or are simply not depending on the 9-to-5 grind. Vegas could become America's heaven for retired people. This is the moment for the snowbirds to move out to Vegas instead of driving every year from Canada, Alaska or wherever to Nevada where the sun shines.
And the casinos already picked up on that. Offering double points days and other incentives....to Senior citizen (50+) during special days of the week. The cacsinos know that older people have not much to do, so this is the way to drag them into the casinos and occupate the slotmachines. Smart moves. So all it takes now is that the casinos are giving away homes instead of cars and boats. Since Vegas' Lake Mead will be running out of water over the next 10 years, there must be other ways to get the water from and if the casinos give away homes nearby the casinos , by buying foreclosured homes instead of cars, this could be quite a smart move to get more citizen hooked up to the world of gaming ;)
From Switzerland
asleepatthewheel-I bet your right. If he had any understanding I would have expected the standard "Adam Smith says in The Wealth of Nations" garbage response. Which normally fails to incorporate any critical analysis and is never placed in the context that it was written 230 years ago.
how's that outsourecing working for ya. stevem loves em. better watch where you eat them burgers bubba, one of these posters might be serving you and know who you are.
the nasdaq 100 reached a new high today.
lower standard of living?
rightsourcing those jobs ruining our country?
people can't afford to buy things?
mmm...not really.
enjoy complaining, suckers.
oh...and umm...new millionaires in america are up 16%.
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/pub...
ohh...that evil capitalism. how DARE it make people wealthy and give us better products.
i think most of the unemployed people...probably deserve to be unemployed.
Who ever said capitalism is evil? Not me..Who said people cant afford to buy things.?As Ronald Reagan would say, there you go again.
Stop making things up.
It is painfully obvious that you are not qualified or capable of holding this discussion. You babble about non-related nonsense issues, like a child or to be more accurate a teenager who thinks they know everthing trying to argue with adults. Stop embarrassing yourself.
"I think most of the unemployed people...probably deserve to be unemployed."--Oh are we getting bitter, actually I would say you deserve to be because not only are you too dim to follow your own discussion you are a liar.
"the nasdaq 100 reached a new high today."
NO IT DID NOT,(lie or are you that incompetent) and if it did so what????
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^NDX#...
Even you should be able to see where the chart tops out. -----
U.S. households worth $1 million or more grew to 7.8 million in 2009, up 16% from 2008, according to a survey from Spectrem Group, a Chicago-based market research and consulting firm.
The market drop sent the number of millionaires plummeting 27% in 2008, according to Spectrem. Even now, the number of millionaires is still well below an all-time high of 9.2 million in 2007.
So whats your point????????????????? The number changes constantly. So how and what does your qoute say? NOTHING, you saw a number you thought was impressive, but failed to read the whole article. In case you didnt know, this is irrelevant to our discussion.
I dont hear people complaining, some mocking your stupidity, yes, but not complaing
And finally, you said you would answer any direct question and yet you have consistently refused to because you cant. You pointless irrelevant "statistics" (and I say that mockingly) and inaccurately attribute stupid comments. So why dont try and answer the direct question as they relate to our discussion? No one ever said capitalism is evil, it is not and you dont even know what it is.
Steve I know you will probably not look at this link, because it might contradict your opinion. It is pretty straight forward.
In all seriousness, are you aware that the average working is making less than 30 years ago?
"Financially speaking, there is a great inequality in the United States. Over the last 30 years, while the rich have been getting richer, the poor have been getting steadily poorer. One reason for the growing disparity between the rich and the poor is the fact that most new jobs that are created pay low wages"
http://www.businesspundit.com/wealth-dis...
"i think most of the unemployed people...probably deserve to be unemployed."
Really nice....you know I can always tell an armchair quarterback by stupid blowhard comments like that. Real business men understand how fragile things are and feel for people on hard times, because they know they can get knocked down too. Blow hard " I listen to talk radio and let them do my thinking for me" crowd make real bad-a**, hardcore comments because they let the other guy take the risks and assume they will always have a job.
By the way Steve pay close attention to the GINI Ratio, note the steady climb in the number since your "cheapest labor at cost" doctrine came into effect.
And in case you didnt know, you are "the remaining 99%" and your lack of understanding indicates you will remain their.
Did I hear the LV SUN give Harry Reid credit for fixing Nevada's economy?
i don't care what the average worker is making.
the proof is this:
the nasdaq (modern companies) is up, productivity is up, and we have more millionaires.
you can choose to be on THAT side of the fence and embrace capitalism, or you can be on the other side of the fence and stay unemployed for the rest of your life because you USED to make $30.00 per hour and now your job is worth $9.00 per hour.
and of course no matter what facts i provide (new millionaires, nasdaq), you'll find some jibberish to contradict me, but the facts are there.
the point i am trying...and HAVE made...is that for all your posturing, for all your rightsourcing jobs is bad, and all the other nonsense...the people that want to make money ARE making money.
Steve,Steve, Steve again you failed to answer even one question you promised you would.
"the proof is this:
the nasdaq (modern companies) is up, productivity is up, and we have more millionaires."
No its not, I showed you A) your claim the NASDAQ (actually the NASDAQ not "modern companies" it was created as the an electronic trading market to replace OTC) is at an all time high is false (and it has been down all day, but so what, has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with our discussion.) B)Productivity is up EVERYWHERE (there are just fewer people to sell the things produced to, so why is that good?)
C) We have more millionaires, in relation to when? I already showed you the number is lower now than in 2007 & 2008. And so what?????
"i don't care what the average worker is making."--you're not smart enough to care about that. It directly affects you and your life
"you can choose to be on THAT side of the fence and embrace capitalism, or you can be on the other side of the fence and stay unemployed for the rest of your life because you USED to make $30.00 per hour and now your job is worth $9.00 per hour."
Well Steve I am on that capitalist side of the fence (Morgan Stanely, Golden Statebancorp, Citigroup and business owner, pretty capitalistic also explains why I know you cant hold the conversation) .This discussion started as shipping your industrial base over seas in not smart and a lot of it is the result of crappy management. You seem to think it is not after carefully analysis of your"the economics of lapdances in the local community" and the" fast food meal cost matrix" . But you have yet to refute, address or even acknowledge the questions directly related to the issue.
Unemployed???Who said I'm unemployed??? I A) I am not B) My job is not "worth $9 AHHHHHHHHH the last refuge of the ignorant. Toss out bs statement and assumptions when you are incapable of having the discussion. You are lucky you are not paid to think or analyze things you'd be worth about 9 cents an hour.
You have provided NO FACTS, just number you thought looked good and actually in some cases contradict the point you seem to think they make.
YOU HAVE MADE NO POINT (you must be a product of the public school system)
"the people that want to make money ARE making money." Thats just one of your dumber statements. Here an idea stop listening to Hannity and Rush all day and move out of your moms spare bedroom. You find the world is more complicated than lapdances, burger king meal costs and nasdaq (which I am not sure what you think that proves) the number of millionaires created last year (still down)
stevem is a flaming hater.
There is a wonderful book out now: It's "Bright-Sided" by Barbara Ehrenreich. It's about the culture and big business of positive thinking. Did the religion of positive thinking aka Joel Osteen and Oprah cause the Depression of 2010? Read the chapter on how positive thinking (dating back to Tom Peters) has taken over the science of management. Management decisions are now guided by intuition, charisma, and positive thinking. Just like in the movie "Up in the Air", laid of employees are told they are being given an opportunity to conquer new worlds and start their own million dollar businesses. When that starts to get old, managers decide if you can't stop the slowing sales and layoffs, then just aid in the process. Lay off a bunch of people to boost the stock price, and then retire with your golden parachute.