Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Mona Shield Payne / Special to the Sun
Jennifer Kennedy, engineering student adviser, rallies the crowd while marching through the UNLV campus during an Engineering Department budget rally Friday, March 5.
Friday, March 5, 2010 | 1:04 p.m.
Sun Archives
Chants of “save our future” rang out at the UNLV Student Union on Friday as students, alumni, faculty, professors and community members rallied against the elimination of five programs within the College of Engineering.
The group met at the Thomas T. Beam Engineering Complex and walked to the student union to protest the proposed removal of civil and environmental engineering, electrical and computer engineering, and mechanical engineering majors, as well as the School of Computer Science and the School of Informatics.
During its recent special session, the Legislature cut education funding by 6.9 percent. The higher education system’s presidents are preparing to eliminate certain programs, services and staff as a result.
Eric Sandgren, dean of the College of Engineering, said the five programs could be on the cutting board because they are some of the most expensive programs on campus.
“There’s nothing we can sacrifice without damaging the university,” Sandgren said. “Changing the economy is going to come from the College of Engineering.”
Staff researcher Rick Hurt, who wore a “Save UNLV Engineering” T-shirt, said he has worked in the Center of Energy Research for four years.
He said the center has made advances in solar energy research and could further Nevada’s lead in alternative energy technology. Cutting programs in the College of Engineering could halt that research, he said.
Mechanical engineering freshman Jack Chaney, 18, said he’s angry that administrators are considering cutting his major. He said he applied to UNLV because the tuition was affordable and the university had a well-respected mechanical engineering program.
Students, alumni and staff gather in the courtyard of the student union in support of the Engineering Department during a budget rally Friday, March 5, at the UNLV campus.
“I want to be loud and show people we care,” he said.
Alumna Doa Meade said she wanted to show her passion for the College of Engineering.
“I refuse to let my degree become a placemat on my dinner table,” she shouted.
Meade said alumni attended the rally because they have ties to the university and family members who are involved in the college.
Mark Newburn, 50, graduated from UNLV in 1981 with a degree in computer science. He said his son got his degree in computer science at UNLV in 2001.
UNLV’s research centers encourage companies to build around it so they can contact professors for technological problems, Newburn said. Sandgren, the college’s dean, said the programs are expensive but the university should take into consideration that the research centers bring in $1.50 for every $1 given to them.
To prevent losing research centers and forcing students to change their majors, administrators are considering a higher tuition for the five programs.
It's truly unfortunate that programs like this may be cut as a result of our state's inability to diversify its tax revenue stream and to appropriately manage government costs.
How many manufacturing and other high-tech companies are going to relocate to southern Nevada if we don't have highly-trained engineering graduates they can hire? (Answer: None!)
I'm a fiscal conservative and understand that some waste exists in education, but the bigger issue is a state that relies almost exclusively on tourists to pay for our young kids' education, our public safety, and our system of higher education. It's time Nevadans started paying for more of their own expenses.
Careful, Newcomer. If NVappleslices comes along, he'll say you're a dupe because the University is just looking for ink and would never ever cut these Engineering programs no matter how much they costs.
Again, if the cost of the program isn't justified by enrollment it's going to be a target of cuts. Does it make sense? No, but that's what it is.
The dean mentions the main engineering programs, but what about ones like Informatics that have only been around for a few years? They would be less of an engineering college if they went back in time 4 or 5 years and only had the programs that they had then? How much would that save? In all fairness, we deserve more information before crying "unfair"! His quote is too black-and-white when there may be other things to cut 6.9%
"the bigger issue is a state that relies almost exclusively on tourists to pay for our young kids' education, our public safety, and our system of higher education."
Yup, that's the way it is and always has been. The only reason it doesn't work now is because we have more takers than givers in Nevada. Oh, well, I'm sure some of you brainy "newcomers" will figure out how to reinvent the wheel you broke!
"The only reason it doesn't work now is because we have more takers than givers in Nevada."
No, the problem is that Nevada is no longer "unique" in what it offers.
Gambling? Throw a dart at a map of the United States. Chances are you'd hit a state with casinos. Why fly or drive here when you can go someplace closer to home for a lot less?
Those talking points about the spread of gambling are tired. Las Vegas has the capability of distinguishing itself as a travel destination; a riverboat or a reservation casino does not.
Tourism has built Las Vegas for 100 years, and has done so at a very specific ratio of tourists to residents. The problem started when an unmanageable flood of people with unmanageable expectations moved here in the 1990s-2000s. They came to Las Vegas already disliking the place, but wanted to take advantage of its climate or its low taxes or whatever, and started making "demands" of what a "city like Las Vegas should provide" to its citizens.
Now, we're stuck with trying to feed those demands, and everyone is so entitled that they just keep turning to "taxes" and "governmment" to fix the problems they created.
As this is a Communist/Socialist action (check their website) shows that these people want to steal more of our money to promote the destruction of our country, I think that a 50% to 75% cut in funding for education is in order until the progressive agenda/indoctrination is removed permanently from all schools in the state.
I am glad I worked so hard to get my computer science degree...I will preface this biased rant with the fact I graduated from the College of Engineering with a Computer Science degree that I worked my tail off for... While everyone else could spend 2 hours studding for a criminal justice exam, I had 20+ hours worth of work to do for 1 measly homework assignment... That is why they are so expensive and do not exactly assembly line graduates...
Of all the Colleges to cut from, Engineering is the best target to choose?.... I am not trying to offend anyone here but do we really need the rampant amount of liberal arts programs that UNLV offers... The Engineering school produces highly skilled professionals... I am sorry but I don't want a bridge designed by a communications major... Or software developed by a phys ed graduate... Not to argue a slippery slope, but whats next, the Math department, the English department... Cutting from an Engineering program is just plain stupid... The Computer Science department has been in the top 30 programs in the Western US, that is some pretty exclusive company...
But here we go again with the geniuses that run our state... When are they going to realize that Nevada has hit the wall when it comes for getting something for nothing...It is time people step up to the plate, or don't do something stupid like chase Yucca Mountain away... I have lived here most my life (25 Years) and love my city, but really this idea of cutting higher education programs for the sake of saving a few bucks is beyond my comprehension... Who do they have doing the accounting an art school graduate?
And when I say step up to the plate, I mean it is time for taxes if we can't pay the bills for education... You want to truly send society into decay... Then creating uneducated masses is the right way to go...
I apologize for this rant, usually my posts are much more coherent in nature, but this one really makes me angry...
"Las Vegas has the capability of distinguishing itself as a travel destination; a riverboat or a reservation casino does not."
No, but when people are going for the "budget vacation" (and in this economy, that is what people do), whether a place is a travel destination or not is irrelevant. Where they can get the most bang for the buck is.
Some people on this site are paranoid and see communists/socialists behind everything...please get help!
FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!
REMOVE PUBLIC AND TAXATION CONTROL OF THE EDUCATION SERVICES AND STOP ROBBING PEOPLE LIKE STEVE WYNN TO PAY FOR THESE PROGRAMS!!!
Privatize and DEREGULATE the system for COMPETITION, CHOICE, FLEXIBLITY, AND PROFIT DRIVEN INNOVATION!!!!
SOMEDAY THIS WILL HAPPEN HOPEFULLY AS 17 YEAR OLD FROM ORANGE COUNTY, CA WHEN I WILL START A MASSIVE REVOLUTION IN THE VALLEY!!!!
NOTACON: Just look at the organizations that are promoting this idiocy and tell me that I am wrong. Obama has already stated that he was a socialist.
I have lived in too many countries around the world to see this as anything else.
"Obama has already stated that he was a socialist."
He did?
Gee, you would have though that would have been a Page 1 splash the New York Post. I mean, considering it's not a part of that "liberal media"...
"Obama has already stated that he was a socialist."
That comment can only come for a poster who folows Sux news and the lies they put out every day.
Stupid people watch Sux News.
when did it become my responsibilty to educate college students? get a job and pay your own way. what a bunch of lazy kids. the state taxes me gives outrageous salaries to teachers and administators then when the money runs dry someone has to pay. hey kids guess what.
Wow, boggy apparently you did not get a public education from where you were brought up or any education for that matter... As is obvious by you lack of basic English... You do know sentences start with capital letters...So I guess you have a reason for not wanting to pay for public educations... Cause by the looks of things you never gained any benefit from it...
Oh wait when you are looking for a doctor to help you at some point make sure you check to see if he was a "lazy kid", I am sure you will tell them the same thing you did just now... Or maybe you should give back the car you drive, because some "lazy kid" designed it... Those roads that you use on a daily basis, again some "lazy kid" did the material analysis on it and some "lazy kid" probably engineered the overpasses you use...Matter of fact some "lazy kid" engineered the PC you are using to type anger filled stupidity...
My point is you receive plenty of benefits from these so called "lazy kids" now do your part and commune...
Engineering is expensive and has a small student body. Next up, Physics! Not gonna need a degree in Real estate around here anytime soon, that can be cut. I'd say cut special ed, but Gibbons needs that so his advisers can help him. Do we really need military science at UNLV? How about senior adult theatre? Nuclear medicine has to be expensive with little student body. A BS in recreation is kinda funny. There's even a "Spanish for the Professions" degree (how is that different than Spanish?). Lets see what else...Geology? Why not combine it with Earth Science? Isnt that basically the same thing? Last but not least Public Administration because everyone seems to dislike administration in any office or capacity in this country.
^^^ My point exactly... I really do not think any educational programs should be shut down, contrary to my little rant... The fact that education of any sort is even up for discussion in a state where education is already slashed to pieces just perplexes me...
And the beat goes on, the beat goes on....
ChickenLittle is right in what he says about engineering. It is one of the most difficult majors there is. You cannot bluff your way through some stress analysis problem. The top starting salaries out of college are in the numerous engineering categories, I believe petroleum is top with chemical just behind it.
Instead of cutting a program that provides excellent employment opportunities and provides many benefits to society, they should be cutting programs that holds very little opportunity for a career in their major fields. Examples would include sociology, ethnic studies, art history, english. These are much cheaper to conduct but do not have much career potential in comparison to any of the engineering fields.
Hey Chicken
Through out the history of human beings things have been designed and built by men and woman without a college education. You do not need a big college to learn a specific job.If there is a market for it there will always be someone willing to teach it. You still haven't answered the question of why my tax dollars should pay for some kids college education.Get a job and pay for it yourself.
Why is no one questioning why the Dean is not able to cut other things? The large staff for "advising"? Informatics has how many student, how many faculty, and how much do faculty get paid? Funny that he isn't quoted on any of these issues. Why don't you meet the taxpayers half way? If it is a 6.9% cut, make a good effort to show us some budgeting.
jboggy, I'll answer your question as to why tax dollars should support a state university. It's simple, without higher education there would be more people like you out there.
And don't forget, for every dollar spent on higher education the return on INVESTMENT is something like three or four dollars. I am glad that my tax dollars are being used to educate those "lazy kids". I wish the money we waste on social benefits for illegal aliens would be invested in educating our legal citizens instead.
Bill Gates, no college education. Rich, very rich.
Does anyone go to class at UNLV or is it just one big party environment? Who in their right mind would hire anyone with a UNLV diploma?
The university is just being vindictive and trying to make a political point by cutting an obviously good program as opposed to cutting out waste and abuse. How about changing the workload of professors to make them teach more? Yes, they will have to work harder for the same money, but that is what everyone in the private sector has to do too. And the University system could do without some administrators, the health science administration center and, frankly, some regents.
You know I had an insult laced diatribe all typed up for the "special kids" on the forum... But it really is true that people always want something to gripe about... That is an unfortunate defect in our society...
And more to the point they love to rouse people that have genuine conviction in their ideals... So good luck Boggy, Gino, Wizzard... I really wish whatever wrongs have driven you to be so hate filled be corrected... And if your just some kid who has nothing better to do then try to rouse people up on a PC forum, because your parents don't actually give a S&#! what you are doing on the family "puter"... Have fun living with those said parents until your 40...
I am not asking people to contribute to health care, I think that what politicians are doing by instituting public health care is terrible... I think hand outs to people not working toward a goal is a terrible idea (key thing to focus on is the "toward a goal" part)... I truly believe Yucca Mountain should be embraced not battled (Could solve a lot of tax problems making the conversation a moot point)... And I also believe a public stake in Education from K-12 and then College is very important for the advancement of society...
I will say I will at least keep doing my part when called on... I will continue to contribute a large chunk of my salary that is earned with my UNLV engineering education as a civic responsibility... So hopefully people like me outnumber people like some of the angry ones on this forum and we can weather this storm together...
You have to go to Carson City and stomp your feet if you're goin to make a stand. Running around campus does NOTHING for your cause. Get bus load of students and head up north to Chew on the Govenors behind. And while your at it chew a lil on legislation too.
I agree with Dean Sandgren. Cuts in the engineering school is the worst thing to do for UNLV since our new engineers are the best hope to help us for the future. The current UNLV administrators seem short-sighted and lack the capability to be objective and make the right choices for the future as well as for now. Perhaps it's time for a major change in the entire UNLV administrative staff and organization. The Board of Regents should at least be watching that UNLV is being smart about cutbacks plans. UNLV would forever regret cutting any engineering school programs. Let's hope the UNLV administrators will see the future and make the right choices...
Cutting any program at UNLV is the worst thing to do: Each program has significance, meaning and value. One Board of Regent said, "Never Surrender!" Thus, we shall not! It's time to "Get up and Stand up" for UNLV. Join the SOS movement!
What I find pretty funny is how the engineering students are putting down the "useless" majors such as History, English, Sociology, etc., but they expect the students involved with those majors to subsidize the costs of the engineering programs by paying the same amount of tuition as the EE, ME, and the CE and CS students, even though the liberal arts majors get stuck with old classrooms and no fancy equipment to play with. Why not just charge the engineering students a lot more tuition to pay for the cost of all that equipment?? By the way, I'm always hearing about how hard it is to get an entry-level job in engineering because all those jobs have been sent to Malaysia or India. So good luck to you conceited engineering students if you can't find a job before you have to start paying off your student loans. Wasn't Carly Fiorina a History Major?
LittleChicken: you proved my point by "sleeping in" during your English classes.
UNLV=Ur Never Leaving Vegas
My point proven by Gino... Congratulations for adding nothing of substance to the conversation... My hats off to you... Now do you need a hug?
There's no immediate solution to the situation that education finds itself in, but doing away with five programs within the College of Engineering at UNLV would prove to be a disaster in the long term.
Doing away with many of the programs that have been suggested will set education back in this state 20-30 years. Once these programs are cut, there's no guarantee that they will ever be brought back to their present status.
It's going to take some time and a great deal of patience, but the economy will come back.The latest economic indicators points to that very thing. I happen to believe that such things as the president's current "jobs bill" is a good thing, and, if given a chance, will help the economy grow.
If Nevada ever hopes to diversity its economy, it must do so by having a vibrant, broad based educational system starting in elementary school and running through graduate school... Companies will not re-locate to Nevada if we have an inferior educational system.
We can not continue to depend largely upon the tourist dollar to run our state. Gaming is now legal in many of the states and every gaming dollar spent in Illinois, Louisiana, or California is money that potentially could have been spent in Nevada.
Contrary to what some people believe, you get what you pay for when it comes to education. With that being said, I happen to believe that what is needed at UNLV is a combination of cuts, increases in tuition, larger classes, and much needed revenue from various donors and former graduates. Professors at UNLV should all be required to increase the number of hours that they presently teach, and anyone who retires or leaves the university should not be replaced.
The various non teaching jobs at UNLV should be closely evaluated and employees who can retire, but have not done so, should be encouraged to do so. Maybe bonuses or some type of severance pay could be used to encourage those individuals. The possibilities are endless and should be looked at before massive, massive cuts or the elimination of specific programs take place.
I'm just sick of talks of cutting educational budgets when education is the reason universities and other schools exist, yet, no one ever brings up cutting the precious athletics programs, which cost enormous sums - coaches alone getting paid millions of dollars. We value the wrong things in our society. And no, athletics does not generate large, surplus revenue, as some people like to claim. It is a huge cost. Athletics and other activities like that should be moved to private funds sponsorship only, just like other extracurricular activities. Schools are for education. It's time we get serious about that.
christopher....
In the Clark County School District, the amount of money spent on athletics in any given year is less that 2% of the total educational budget. That includes money spent on equipment, travel, transportation and coaching salaries...
I haven't seen a similiar study done for UNLV or UNR but it would be interesting to see one...
My guess is that UNLV basketball comes close to paying for itself. Probably not true with football, mainly because UNLV football is not winning the way basketball is....
Also, the football team plays 12 games a year compared to 30+ games for basketball.
Both programs get a certain amount of their revenue from donors, basketball more than football. Again, success figures into the equation.
So called non-revenue sports at UNLV & UNR don't pay for themselves, but a few of those sports do have large donor backing....UNLV tennis & golf comes quickly to mind....
If UNLV & UNR plan to continue as a member of the NCAA (Division I) they must support a certain number of sports for both men & woman. The federal law known as Title IX has various requirements along those lines...
I would like to see some external evaluations of the engineering college because you can't tell me that there isn't ANY waste in there. If you go to the engineering website, there are other departments that the Dean doesn't mention: INFORMATICS?? What is that? It wasn't a department five years ago when I was there. Would that save any of the 6.9% of the budget?
LittleChicken: As John Wayne was fond of saying, "Compliments are always accepted, no matter what the source."
Misinterpretation of state. Wrong progress will fade away in sunlight and yes less can be done with less. Change of unsuitable course. Maybe it is time to do something, not furtive plays, no funny business.
Yea good idea, cut engineering. As if they dont have senseless bull crap majors and departments they could cut. Oh, thats right when over half of your freshman need remedial math and English you better leave the garbage departments alone so they have something to get edumacateded in.
Informatics is a broad field that encompasses a range of new technology areas including artificial intelligence and data design, etc. It makes absolutely no sense to cut important areas of study like engineering and finance, management information systems, and others, while maintaining programs with little or no practical value in the working world, including "urban studies" and studying the history of hip hop and rap music. Yep, there are books for that on the shelves at the UNLV Bookstore while they talk about cutting science, technology, business, and engineering degree programs. Those teachers that teach such silly, wasteful classes, have jobs that are only justified because students are forced to take multicultural studies classes to graduate. I'm 100% in favor of understanding the broader world we live in, but not at the expense of business, math, science, literature, and foreign languages, which we in America truly need more exposure to, by the way, to compete in global markets.
As for NCAA eligibility, et cetera, I personally could not care less. If maintaining the status quo is the goal, we need to realize we've been asking the wrong questions and trying to achieve the wrong things, particularly since our schools do not succeed at the one thing they are intended for: educating and *graduating* students. I've read that UNLV has only about a 40% graduation rate after 6 years. That's 6 years for a 4 year degree, and only ~40% of those who attempted it. We need to build schools that exist for students that want to learn, and fully benefit those students with a tighter and leaner - more focused and relevant curriculum, not just appeal to students whose first priority is not education, but a sport. Sports are great and I'm in favor of continuing them in a privately funded way, but the reality is that athletics have little long-term value to the vast majority of those who compete in the them, to say nothing of the students just sitting in the bleachers. It also puts puts the sports programs' financial self-sufficiency at the feet of the individual athletic program's current team success or failure, and in off years, they will be big financial losers, forcing us to spend millions on coaches, and chasing that ever-elusive "success" that will not serve the singular mission of any school: to educate and graduate successful students.
One last thing: The "Millennium Scholarship" program - it's completely impractical financially for the state to educate people essentially for free just because they graduated high school in Nevada. It was a nice thought, but how many tens of millions of dollars in lost revenue for the schools does that cost per year?
Hmmmmm....it appears that christopher is one very angry poster. I see christopher largely ignored what I said about UNLV athletics, and the fact that basketball pretty much pays for itself.
There's a place & need for intercollegiate athletics at the university level. If UNLV was MIT or the University of Chicago, I would agree that maybe athletics should be eliminated. But that's just not the case. UNLV is simply a state supported university, and a broad based program of both academics and athletics should be supported.
I agree that the engineering program at UNLV should be left pretty much alone when it comes to budget cuts. On the other hand, to do away with many of the other programs that christopher thinks should be axed is nonsense....no, make that total nonsense!
The money the state has spent on the "Millennium Scholarship" program has been money well spent. Hopefully the program will be able to continue. The scholarship money that has been awarded to those students who have qualified under the program has kept literally hundreds of outstanding students at home. Far too often students who go away to school never return to Nevada to work and live. That's simply a brain drain for the Silver State....
Nevada needs desperately to diversity its economy. Depending largely upon gaming/tourism to pay the bills is no longer practical or feasible. Nevada needs a strong educational program, elementary through the university level, in order for that to happen.
El_Lobo: you can disagree with me all you want, but please do refrain from characterizing me how you see fit. I'm not angry, I just disagree with you, and I feel that people that care only about sports and not the educational process are a big part of the problem. No one said "eliminate athletics." Perhaps you need to read what *I* wrote.
People that think that everyone that disagrees with them are just nonsensical idiots never fix a single problem in this world. Affecting real change for the better is going to mean asking some very tough questions and taking some unpopular steps.
Engineering majors are generally practical, but that does not mean that an entire college should be exempt from cuts. I'd like to hear the Dean say that he could pitch in and cut a small department or a few faculty positions for under-performers instead of acting like the university should revolve around engineering. Other majors are important too.
christopher.....relax!
I merely said that it "appears that christopher is one very angry poster."
That is merely my opinion....are you saying that I can't have an opinion? Isn't that what this message board is basically all about?
I don't see a lot of people out there who "care only about sports and not the educational process."
Maybe you're looking in a different direction than I am?
I think athletics is very important but the same can, and should be said, about academics. Money spent on academics is money well spent... Money spent on athletics is money well spent....
UNLV is a major university and its academic reputation is very important. If the university is going to offer an intercollegiate athletic program then the university should also be concerned about its reputation when it comes to athletics...
What ever UNLV decides to do, it should do as well as it possibly can....
A very successful athletic program is great PR for the university. You may not believe that but I strongly believe that...
I don't think you're a "nonsensical idiot" just because you disagree with me. I don't believe I said that, did I?
There are a ton of people - particularly here in Las Vegas - that practically worship sports. It's not a secret. Saying "the same can and should be said about academics" is the biggest "duh" comment I've read on the Sun recently. That is what school is for: academics. Playing football or basketball well is only going to help a very, very small minority of all the people who play it in college in the long term, much less the rest of the student body. If the primary task of education is being financially crippled and there are money losing, non-educational programs that can be cut, it should not matter what they are: they should all be up for debate.
As a graduate of the Electrical Engineering Department and a Las Vegas native, I've had the opportunity to work along other college grads from top tier schools such as GA-Tech, Cornell, RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) , and guess what""I had a much better engineering knowledge base than most of them.
Why would any of you on this board consider closing the engineering department?? Would GA-Tech close its engineering department? Absolutely not! Many of you may say well, UNLV is no GA-Tech. That may be true in some area, but in other areas I disagree.
How is that possible? UNLV Electrical Engineering department offers much coursework that is NOT offered at many institutions: i.e. Analog & Digital Controls, Electric Power Analysis, Transmission Lines, Power Electronics, etc. etc. These very same courses are vital to the global overhaul of the electrical infrastructure".yes the smart grid". and many other industries including communications, advanced internet protocols, robotics, financial modeling, new manufacturing processes (think beyond six-sigma), medical device manufacturing (yes a MRI machine), I could go on and on.
Who would hire or accept a UNLV engineering student, you ask? Below is a brief list of companies that I know who have personally hired or accepted UNLV engineering students:
GE
Siemens AG (World's largest electrical engineering company)
IBM
Microsoft
Intel
Stanford University
University of California -- Berkley
University of Michigan
University of Pennsylvania
University of Illinois --Urbana Champaign
Ford Motor Company
BMW
Raytheon
Lockheed Martin
Northrop Grumman
National Nuclear Security Administration
US Department of Energy
US Department of Defense (several agencies)
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Idaho National Laboratory
Dominion Power
Southern Company
JT3
T-Mobile
Cox Communications
AT&T
Verizon Wireless
Sprint
AECOM (world's largest engineering design firm)
CH2MHILL
Jacobs Engineering
Parsons Engineering
Carter & Burgess
These are all name brand places to work, so how could Nevada ever diversify its economy if the elected officials decide to close the very college that offers Southern Nevada an opportunity to do so? DUH!? Don't get me wrong, I think the professors in the college need to take teaching lessons because many don't deliver the message very well".but it is ABSOLUTELY CRITCAL that this college remain open!