Thursday, June 10, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Related document
Tom Collins
Chris Giunchigliani
Steve Sisolak
Sun archives
- MGM Mirage opposes arena options seeking public financing (5-18-2010)
- County wants arena details, says public money unlikely (4-6-2010)
- Cowboys Stadium poses Texas-sized threat to Vegas (3-21-2010)
- Jerry Jones says Cowboys, NFL will lift boxing (3-9-2010)
- New arena plans promise jobs but seek public money (3-4-2010)
- Rodeo rustler? Tourism officials worry Dallas Cowboys owner could steal Vegas event (3-4-2010)
- City OKs plan to study downtown arena, entertainment district (11-4-2009)
- Cordish projects include sports-anchored developments (11-4-2009)
- Goodman: 20,000-seat downtown arena could lure NBA team (10-29-09)
- Mayor seeking arena development deal for City Hall parcel (10-28-2009)
- With arena plan dead, what next for former REI Neon site? (8-2-2009)
- City quietly ends arena talks with REI Neon (10-15-2008)
- city holds out hope for arena downtown (8-21-2008)
- Told you, critics of arena play say (8-2-2008)
- Casino plan may survive arena's death (5-30-2008)
Even as Clark County commissioners discuss Tuesday whether to seek public input on building an arena along the Strip, a development group headed by a group of civic leaders says it will shelve its arena proposal for lack of commissioners’ support.
The Las Vegas Arena Foundation, whose board members include former County Commissioner Bruce Woodbury and former County Manager Thom Reilly, has decided the time isn’t right, said Marybel Batjer, also a board member. The foundation wanted to build an arena on land donated by Harrah’s, funding it with taxes collected from a district that would need to be created along the Strip.
But the foundation hasn’t been able to land the support of the County Commission.
“The harsh reality is there is no appetite right now among the commissioners, we understand, to support any public funding for an arena,” Batjer said. “We’re disappointed by that, but that’s the harsh reality.”
That leaves two arena proposals, one planned at the site of the old Wet ’n Wild water park south of the Sahara (Silver State Arena by International Development Management), and one south of Interstate 215 on Las Vegas Boulevard near Cactus Avenue (Olympia Development). County sources said Olympia Development, which would also rely on a resort-corridor tax to fund bonds issued by the county, is considering pulling out, too.
When they discuss the arena Tuesday, commissioners will delve into the idea of asking voters in November if they would support a taxing district. Results of that question would go to state lawmakers who meet in 2011.
Any decision on a publicly funded arena is fraught with political mine shafts. Voting thumbs-up, even if it’s only to give voters the right to say yes or no, at a time when people have lost jobs and homes because of the economy, can make a politician appear disconnected from constituents. Voting no will lead some to grouse that the county is failing to help create jobs and is short-sighted.
Commissioners will be armed, however, with a detailed arena analysis prepared by county Comptroller Ed Finger. The 10-page document shreds the idea of public funding and raises questions about the need for an arena.
In his carefully worded evisceration, Finger raises serious doubts about the validity of an advisory question because there’s been no inventory of businesses that would be subject to the tax rate. He also noted that tax rates suggested by would-be developers “do not provide adequate revenue coverage to issue the governmental bonds in the amount asked for.”
Other issues raised by Finger:
• More public funding would likely be needed to meet infrastructure demands of a new arena.
• Raising taxes, even in a specific district, would limit the ability of the county to create another tax in the future for other public purposes.
• The need for an arena is “questionable,” with no guarantee that an NBA or NHL team would be a tenant.
• If the taxes failed to cover payment of the debt, Clark County “would likely feel compelled” to make up the difference.
In his analysis, Finger hints that the Silver State Arena proposal near Sahara might be more to the county’s liking. Instead of requiring the creation of a tax district, it would merely need the county to revive its Redevelopment Agency, then collect incremental property taxes in a designated redevelopment area that includes the Wet ’n Wild site. Plus, the developer would not require any of the tax contributions until the building is finished; and the contribution amount would be limited to $125 million. If the arena couldn’t pay its bills, the county would not be on the hook.
The idea for a professional sports arena on the Strip has collected about 1,400 supporters on a Facebook page dedicated to its construction: “Las Vegas Needs an Arena in the Heart of the Strip!”
Outside of virtual reality, the arena idea is struggling for traction among commissioners.
Steve Sisolak said he doesn’t like the idea of turning over a tough decision to voters on a ballot question. “That’s what we were elected to do,” he said.
Resurrecting the redevelopment district doesn’t sit well with Chris Giunchigliani, who pushed to shutter the county’s Redevelopment Agency to save money more than a year ago.
“Times are tough and I don’t want to divert several million dollars” from schools or University Medical Center, she said, referring to the fact that redevelopment districts siphon off increases in property tax revenue for specific projects such as an arena.
“And do we even need it?” she said. “Or will this turn into another empty skeleton on the Strip?”
Commissioner Tom Collins says many successful ventures have required public assistance.
“I’m not saying I’m supporting tax funding, but I want a discussion,” Collins said. “Then maybe we’ll take action on the voter advisory question.”
Muddying the picture for commissioners: Finger said an arena could take up to $9 million in revenue from UNLV, because it would skim business away from the university’s Thomas & Mack Center.
The Thomas & Mack has hosted the National Finals Rodeo for years. The fear is that other venues, such as the Dallas Cowboys’ new stadium, could take that business away.
“We need to be thinking of the future and how we are going to keep up with the NFR, the Country Music Awards and many other events,” Batjer said.
Collins said he’s thinking of the future, too. But he’s “not afraid of Jerry Jones,” the Cowboys owner.
“Because the Cowboys are not going to let someone else take over that stadium from football for three weeks in December,” he said. “Nobody else has the amenities we do. But we have to keep moving forward, too, and an arena might move us in that direction.”







One of the things I like about las vegas is that we don't have to put up with a bunch of people that are crazy about the local sports time.
Las Vegans come from all over the country and each can celebrate their own home team at the different casinos.
This diversity is far more cohesive and welcomes other people to Las Vegas.
We don't want to have a spirit in Las Vegas that does not want or competes against visitors.
The United States could repave every highway in the country with what we have spent on Arenas and Stadiums in the last 20 years, lets get our priorities straight before we are all driving on gravel roads again!
We don't need ANY more construction of ANYTHING for a long time!!!
A stadium diverts tax dollars from infrastructure and recreational activities, such as public parks, that all can enjoy without having to pay a private owner big dollars to watch passively. A publicly-funded stadium does not generate jobs after construction is over. If you build it, they won't come. If it's such a great idea, let private investors build it. The reason they don't is that without a public subsidy, it never makes money for them.: business 101
I favor a downtown arena anyway, so I won't read much into it.
Put it next to the Sahara, they need the traffic more than harrah's does.
look at the attendance of baseball, Dodjerks, Dymondbores, etc. empty seatville,
Bring back Wet N' Wild!
I guess Las Vegas doesn't remember the crowd that was attracted for the NBA All Star game. Why they're trying to attract that element is beyond me.
I hope no one missed the key statement in this article:
" If the taxes failed to cover payment of the debt, Clark County "would likely feel compelled" to make up the difference."
That's more taxes on you and me to subsidize a pro basketball player's multi-million dollar salary.
No thanks.
NYC Population 8.3 million
Arenas (1) Madison Square Garden, (1) suburban arena, the Nassau Coliseum
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L.A. Population 4 million
Arenas (2) The Staples Center, L.A. Memorial, (1) suburban arena, The Great Western Forum
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Chicago Population 2.8 million
Arenas (1) United Center
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Las Vegas population 1.8 million
Arenas (4) Thomas & Mack, The Mandalay Bay Events Center, The Orleans Arena, The Grand Gardens @ MGM. I probably missed 1 or 2.
What in G-d's name do we need another arena for?
Stuart & Robert Wyman-Cahall
Las Vegas, NV 89142
Sisolak's got it right again: Stop using ballot initiatives for every proposal that elected officials are too timid to make a tough choice upon. That's how California got into such a fiscal mess. Voters vote for what they want without finding a way to pay for it!
we need to build something or increase the size of the thomas and mack or we'll lose the rodeo to dallas. this town was a ghost town in december before the rodeo.
I thought the need for a new arena was because existing arenas were too small, but 20,000 seats is only about 650 more seats than the T&M.
If this goes forward with public money, then local residents should get significant discounts on tickets and/or concessions OR the County should get a cut of revenue each year in addition to any taxes paid.
The comptroller's report is fascinating. I'd love to know the RETURN ON INVESTMENT (tax dollars expended and then later received after an arena was built) of similar ventures in other cities. I've heard cities often pay out big bucks and fail to get the economic benefits promised.
re: howdydostu's post
"What in G-d's name do we need another arena for?"
You are obviously:
1) out of context, and/or
2) not a sports follower.
No major league sports team wants to play in an arena that is either:
1) connected to an hotel/casino establishment.
2) has insufficient capacity, and
3) outdated in comparison to the newer arenas.
You like to mention The Staples Center, The United Center as well as Madison Square Garden, anyone in their right mind would say that no current Vegas venue compares to either of those three, and they only exist because they ride the Vegas tailwinds.
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quote: mred June 10, 2010 8:31 a.m.
"look at the attendance of baseball, Dodjerks, Dymondbores, etc. empty seatville"
I think your disdain for baseball has formed you quite nicely (sarcasm). Don't bag on those who do like the MLB and is willing to buy season tickets if Las Vegas does get an MLB team.
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Vegas can't live and breathe UNLV forever, we may as well be an oversized Reno and play second fiddle to LA and NY.
And I wonder what you naysayers will do tonight instead of watching the Lakers-Celtics NBA finals. The Stanley Cup finals was pretty good too.
Looking towards the future, something that these County Commissioners have never done a good job at doing. So trusting them based on them being elected - ha!
We have an NBA Owner in Las Vegas who cant get a new arena in Sacramento. Build an arena and we get a team - pretty simple.
The fact that Casinos built arenas does not mean that we are overbuilt. These facilities, especially with MGM and Mandalay were not built for professional sports in mind.
Thomas and Mack can not monopolize the market crying tears about a new facility. They dont have a building that can host NHL Hockey. The NFR is bursting at the seams and Dallas' new building can present a case to take a much needed event out of Las Vegas to Dallas. What will replace the NFR in December?
Sorry - but if taxes are being paid by tourists, why not put them towards a facility that locals and tourists can enjoy?
To the novice fans building a facility seems to not make sense. But, ask the people of Seattle who did not build a new building to keep their NBA team - the team left for a city who did build one. Both of their tax funded facilities have paid back their bonds early.
Taxes that tourists pay going for a building that would keep the NFR and provide Vegas the chance to get an NHL or NBA team is a tax worth adding. Attach it to rental cars, locals dont get impacted and at the end of the day that is what anyone should care about - if you as a local are not paying out of pocket and tourists are - why not move the money in the direction to get this done.
The NFR wont go to the Orleans, MGM or Mandalay.
NHL and NBA teams wont go to either facility either.
We are trying to allow a new facility that will bring jobs that will save current events we count on and will set the town up for hosting bigger things in the future.
If the money is not coming from me or you - why not make this happen?
For the person wanting to show other cities and their facilities:
Chicago has more than just the United Center - you dont count the facilities on the College campuses, All State Arena in Rosemont either - so your numbers are wrong.
LA Has - Staples, Pauley, Galen, Sports Arena, Forum, Honda Center, Anahiem Convention Center Arena and arenas in Ontario, Riverside, and countless other university arenas.
Your facts are dead wrong Howdy! The fact that Casinos built arenas for their fights and to be used as convention space does not mean that they are on par for an NBA or NHL team.
Bape -
1.He has already told the NFR - he wants to host their annual rodeo in his stadium!
2. Middle of football season - December?
3. The Cowboys dont play at home every weekend. Which the event can be scheduled and the stadium would be unavailable for the 2 weekends of the rodeo.
You probably think that Mayweather and PAC Man are already scheduled for Las Vegas?
Dallas wants to hold the mega fight in their new arena too.
Hope you have an answer to what will fill all of the rooms the rodeo fills once it leaves.
My friend JDubs,
I am a sports fan of many years, I was Born in Brooklyn and raised in L.A. I spent many nights at the "fabulous" Forum before it became the Great Western. The nights I spent at Chavez Ravine (Dodger Stadium) are many. I made a trip to New York because I wanted to see the lat night game at Shea Stadium. My credentials as a fan are impeccable.
So much so, in fact, that I can fairly discern what it will take to make a pro sports team work here in Las Vegas.
Professional sports teams will thrive best in cities where the economy is diversified. Right now we do one thing REAL well...gaming. And the folks that live here are almost always from someplace else, with deep loyalties to those teams they left behind.
There is a future for a sports team in Las Vegas, but the future is NOT now.
I would go to "stars" and "51's" baseball games...Cashman was empty. And the same goes for the "thunders" hockey games I would go to a the T & M....empty.
Stuart & Robert Wyman-Cahall
Las Vegas, NV 89142
The NBA is dead set against ever having a team in Las Vegas, so I hope hockey plays well in the desert.
To all Las Vegans with negative comments to the above story about Arena Support...
My name is John Wells and I am the Founder/President of The XHL International, website: thexhl.com. The XHL is The Xtreme Hockey League, all PRO and committed to locating in Las Vegas.
We are not anything like the NHL, 'We Play Hockey in a Whole New Light'!!
The time for an Xtreme and Professional Hockey format is NOW! Pro Hockey has been here too long without any significant changes other than minor rule variations, at best.
As The Founder/President of the XHL International, I have already sent the Committment Letter to Mr. Bruce Woodbury for my move and choice to make Las Vegas the HOME of The XHL!
You will all be pleasantly surprised to see and be a part of The XHL Experience in Las Vegas.
I have heard all the stories about 'others' that have come and gone, when it comes down to it, we are there to stay and play. We also plan to place a Franchise in the City to PROVIDE NEEDED USE and ADDITIONAL REVENUE STREAMS FOR THE ARENA.
I have further committed to having 1 Exhibition game per year at the proposed arena and ALL PROCEEDS will go to Charties in Las Vegas. I have also committed TO ALL INTERNATIONAL and CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES to be played in the arena every year, bringing previously unobtainable International Commerce thru our Franchised Teams World wide.
This is The XHL International and we are coming out soon!
Premire Event scheduled for May 2011 for VIP/media only.
Please visit our website and really look into it to see who we are at The XHL and what we are going to do for your city and soon Home to The XHL! Website (again): thexhl.com.
The XHL International is the Premiere Professional Sports/Entertainment League Globally and we are coming soon.
We will supply jobs in many area's of our corporate offices, up to and including hiring Interns and providing training and Mentoring. We will also be diversifying as quickly as we can to create more employment opportunities for the Great City of Las Vegas.
We recognize the needs of your City and we are prepared to act quickly to assist in alleviating some of your worries.
I look forward to meeting all new fans as we progress from Exhibition play to full league season play and I guarantee a good time for all who attend any of our Events, plus I will give something away FREE to EVERYONE attending an XHL Event!
Thank you for reading my comments and feel free to either visit our site or call me direct with questions or concerns.
Mr. John A. Wells
Founder/President
The XHL International LLC
210 550 2040 (c)
I will answer your calls!
<Chicago has more than just the United Center - you dont count the facilities on the College campuses, All State Arena in Rosemont either - so your numbers are wrong>
Thank you, Kirland1, for pointing this out. Also....and this is kind of important - Chicago has FIVE professional sports teams with all having a place to play: Wrigley, Sox Park, Soldier Field and not only does the United Center host the Bulls and also concerts, it also is the Home of the new winners of the Stanley Cup!! And as you mentioned, there are numerous other venues scattered all over the area for whatever use is needed.
Ok...let me get this straight...What the .... are they EVEN looking at or even discussing this at this time. Where do they think this is going to be funded? Oh that's right...vegas has a EXIT tax for everyone packing up and leaving...I forgot. Then they can raise property taxes on all the empty houses or better yet tax the unemployed.How about another bond issue,you can tax all the illegals as well.
To all concerned:
My above remarks are in no way related to a press release or any form of advertising. There are other options to be discussed when the time is right!
Thank you!
Mr. John A. Wells
Founder/President
The XHL International LLC
210 550 2040 (c)
A boxing arena would be sweet! Name it Mayweather Stadium!
I remember back in the day we had pro wrestling at the Showboat. Las Vegas Americans playing in some indoor soccer league. Las Vegas Posse in the CFL. Las Vegas outlaws in XFL. Las Vegas Thunder playing hockey at T & M. Las Vegas Silver streaks playing basketball. Arena football. more indoor soccer. Did I miss anything?
The problem with venues like MGM and Mandalay Bay is they can not, never, get the sound right - because they are indoor arenas. The only way is to allow the sound to travel out which is best heard outdoors.
I think all the powers should chip in. It could become a Vegas stadium! And we could, at the least, get a big act to stick around not only on Friday/Saturday - but even on Tuesdays and Wednesdays!
theres a website
http://silverstatearena.com/index.html