Saturday, June 5, 2010 | 2:01 a.m.
Steve Smith
Tom Collins
Steve Sisolak
Sun archives
- Staffing shuffle would cut county Fire Department overtime (5-20-2010)
- Las Vegas, Clark County collaborate to limit firefighter overtime (4-27-2010)
- Fire union resists move to increase its ranks, reduce overtime costs (4-16-2010)
- Has fire union support become a campaign curse? (4-15-2010)
- ‘Boot drive’ OT for individual firefighters is unknown (4-4-2010)
- Practice of on-duty firefighters raising money for charity questioned (3-31-2010)
- Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
Clark County is taking yet another swipe at firefighter overtime costs, with plans to reassign some administrators to regular duty and shut down four units, allowing their duties to be covered by city teams.
The moves, detailed in a memo Thursday by County Manager Virginia Valentine and scheduled to be implemented this month, will free 42 county fire employees — including six captains, 12 engineers, 18 firefighters and others — to fill in for other captains, engineers and firefighters on sick leave, vacation or absent for other reasons. Using on-duty personnel to cover absences means the county pays them straight time, not overtime.
Administrative positions that would be vacated include public information officer, logistic officer, EMS supervisor and fire systems coordinator.
The savings for the fiscal year that begins July 1 is estimated at $4.5 million.
The four units that will be shut down are heavy rescue, hazardous materials and two associated rescues. Shuttering the units will reduce “the imbalance of mutual aid calls that our fire department responds to within the city’s jurisdictions,” Valentine said.
Her memo came a day after the county began another overtime-cutting effort.
On Wednesday, the Fire Department ended full-time staffing of two pieces of equipment: a “mobile air unit,” which hauls breathing apparatus to fire scenes, and a water tender, another on-call truck that ferries extra water to scenes when hydrants can’t be found. The trucks will still be available when needed, but the firefighters who used to sit with them around the clock will become part of the team filling in for absent colleagues.
None of these moves will affect response times, Valentine wrote, because while the technical rescue and hazmat units sometimes go on a first call with emergency medical service units, “the incidents to which these units respond can be absorbed by the remaining engine company within each station.”
Combined, the moves could cut overtime by $5.5 million, which represents 39 percent of fiscal year 2009’s overtime total of $14.1 million.
Overtime is a big part of the reason the average firefighter’s pay and benefits are $180,000 annually.
In the annals of county/firefighter dealings, long colored by the firefighters union’s perceived political power, this move “is huge,” one local political consultant said. “I never thought I’d actually see the county get the backbone to do it.”
Ryan Beaman, president of the county firefighters union, could not be reached for comment.
Valentine’s direction could be thwarted were a commissioner to ask for a public discussion and vote on the plan.
Based on the response of commissioners, including one who is such a Fire Department fan that a fire helmet rests on a hat rack in his county office, it appears the proposal will be adopted.
“I love it,” said Commissioner Tom Collins, whose sixth-floor office is home to the helmet. “I’m real proud of the (Fire) Chief (Steve Smith). I’m very impressed with him working to streamline the effectiveness of our Fire Department.”
Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani, another fire union supporter, called the moves “good news.”
“Like we said all along, we have to get a handle on overtime, and this seems to do that without taking away the ability to do the job,” she said.
Support also came from Commissioner Susan Brager.
“We really need to dig in, and this sounds like a good way to get more money and get rid of overtime and keep people working,” she said.
Commissioner Steve Sisolak, the most vocal critic of firefighter pay over the past year, said the Fire Department has “exhibited real creativity and innovation, and they need to be applauded.”
“I’m real supportive of the idea of cutting back and not having any sacred cows,” he added. “I think we’re sending a message ... that we do value the taxpayer dollar and we’re taking this budget crisis seriously.”
In May, commissioners approved a budget that addressed a $57 million deficit largely by depleting capital accounts and reserve funds. The county has more than 1,000 unfilled positions and is expected to lay off about 100 people soon.
Meanwhile, next year’s tax revenue picture isn’t expected to be much better.
The union’s oft-repeated reply to concerns over its overtime costs has been that if the county wants to cut overtime, it needs to hire more firefighters. In April, though, the union balked when the county announced it was going to hold off-year examinations to promote more firefighters to engineer, a move intended to cut into expensive engineer overtime. By contract, the union said, the test can only be given every other year.
Commission Chairman Rory Reid, who is running for governor, said Valentine’s proposals won’t be the last county move on this issue.
“We’re going to keep doing what’s in the public interest to totally reform our Fire Department so that it’s efficient,” he said. “Just like businesses have to change how they do things during economic downturns, so should the Fire Department.”
Additional cost savings could come in two ways.
• The firefighters union and the county are in contract negotiations. Although hopes are high that savings will result from union concessions, no one is holding his breath after talks between Las Vegas and its firefighters union reached an impasse.
• The second avenue is the Fire Department’s plan to cut costs by 8 percent, plans that were required of each county department. For the Fire Department, an 8 percent cut equals about $11 million. Part of the department’s plan is to develop a shared-services agreement with Las Vegas and North Las Vegas to place underused equipment on-call. This, too, would free more engineers and firefighters to cover for absent colleagues at straight pay.
Another ambitious county idea would be to shutter fire stations, allowing neighboring jurisdictions to cover. To make the plan work, EMS calls would be “triaged,” or prioritized, to weed out those that don’t require an ambulance. Doing so would likely cut greatly into the number of times that county ambulances go out on calls, theoretically giving them more time to cover a broader area.
County sources said this last idea won’t be seriously considered unless the economy worsens. Although Clark County has the plan and the will, neighboring jurisdictions “aren’t ready to make that call just yet,” a source said.







How about combine all fire departments, county,cities (North Las Vegas,Las Vegas,Henderson.) What would be the real problem in that. You don't have to worry about jurisdictional problems.
Ok, who is Scott Allison?
Amazing how all of these reductions in personnel doesn't have an impact on services available to the citizens?
How is birdieman going to get hired with all of these cut backs?
Dan33 is right.....zero impact and still they can cut more.It's a step in the right direction.Lets face FACTS....if Las Vegas doesn't wake up now and make the necessary cuts required to survive you can rest assure they will be MADE FOR THEM at a later date and they're going to be severe cuts.
uhhh, I'm pretty sure Dan33 was being sarcastic babyboomer. You really are old aren't you? Either that or been hanging out with the mayor sippin on gin and gin.
The reason the councilman has a fire helmet on his hat rack is because that too will be part of this cost-savings agenda. Council members will be trained as fire fighters, and during normal business hours will respond to calls near the county building.
ole tommy collins...
been a commissioner since 2005...
has a fire helmet in his office...
the average community destroying fireman makes 180k...
hmmm...
i wonder if there is a connection???
NEVER VOTE FOR TOM COLLINS AGAIN!!!
HOW TO SAVE THE TAXPAYERS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS >> FIRE FIGHTERS Go to 8 HOUR WORK DAY ...40 HOUR WEEK ... 3 Shifts of FF...The casino has 3 shifts of 8 hours a day... The ff are SO OVERPAID !!!
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/cl...
The above link is to the Clark County employee salaries for 2009 (keep in mind, this is for most county employees, not just people on the fire payroll). Looking at the first few pages will shock you.
ole chris giunchigliani...
been a commissioner since 2007...
a fire union supporter...
the average community destroying fireman makes 180k...
hmmm...
i wonder if there is a connection???
NEVER VOTE FOR CHRIS GIUNCHIGLIANI AGAIN!!!
in fact...
ole chris is up for re-election this year...
and even though birdie is a bleeding heart liberal...
and proud of it...
the average community destroying fireman's salary is OUTRAGEOUS...
this nonsense must end right now...
NEVER VOTE FOR CHRIS GIUNCHIGLIANI AGAIN!!!
hey rory reid...
you want to be governor pal...
hmmm...
tell you what...
i just don't see it buddy...
you see pal...
you have been a commissioner since 2002...
so clearly a lot of the blame must fall on you...
i mean come man...
there simply is no way in hell the average community destroying fireman should make 180k...
no way in hell...
holding a hose just ain't that difficult...
so you see rory...
even though birdie is a bleeding heart liberal...
this disgusts me...
absolutely disgusts me...
makes me think you clowns on the commission just don't care about the taxpayers...
so i just don't see how you can be governor...
unless you get your act together...
better get crackin pal...
now is not the time for back slapping...
you are not even half way home yet...
39% is not 100%...
i am pulling for you...
but there just is no way you can be trusted to run the state if you can not reduce the average fireman's salary from the OUTRAGEOUS 180k a year...
sorry buddy...
birdie calls 'em as he sees 'em...
Birdiedreamin must have never scored high enough on the firefighter test or something?
Wake up people, a reduced amount of people at the fire stations means less people available when you need them.
As a mom, when I call 911, I want help now, not later.
The main reason we have local government is to provide for the public's safety.
Birdie thinks.....
That by writing like this he is being hip and edgy.....
Hate to burst your bubble birdieboy........
You are no where near as smart as you think.......
You don't know what you don't know.....
Being a Firefighter is just not that hard?...........
Apparently it is...........
As you are obviously bitter because you can't pass the test..........
So you attack those who actually go out and put their lives on the line..........
You make statements that have no truth......
You post garbage all day long.........
Too bad you can't get hired.......
Then you wouldn't have so much time to attack people who actually contribute to their community.....
Just keep posting here complaining..........
While you sit in the safety of your basement.......
Keep posting all your silly nonsense here.....
As free speech is your right........
We will keep laughing at you......
As your posts are so silly they are hilarious...
"None of these moves will affect response times, Valentine wrote". I hope this is true but reading stories from other parts of the Country, who've done similar things, I doubt it. Just yesterday I heard there was a bad accident out near Mesquite where the HR21 went to to help trapped people. Next month if that happens somewhere else in the outlying county, the City of Las Vegas Fire must go out, leaving the millions of residents and visitors of Vegas valley without a specialized unit... or letting those in need deal with less specialty trained and equipped.
2 other opportunities for cost control:
Reduction in cost of living adjustment
Reduction in merit increase
usecommonsense- can you explain your plan? I don't see how that will save money. And when you say save the taxpayers millions of dollars, do you really believe that? If there is any money saved by the politicians you can bet your arse it ain't coming back to us. They'll just waste it like they always do. It could help pay the $16 million dollars that Sisolak sued the county for.
Consolidation of ALL county/city agencies should be done NOW. Merge them. Change the name of the county to Las Vegas County and the redundancies will seem ridiculous.
We should ALL be Las Vegas.
Chandier_L,
Yes to all.
unemployment is over 14%...
the average fireman makes 180k...
hmmm...
what is wrong with that picture???
what is terribly wrong with that picture???
what is so terribly pathetically wrong with that picture???
what is so terribly pathetically outrageously wrong with that picture???
Tanks race_car_diva
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/
It just blow up my mind
No more haz-mat and no more specialty rescues. I'm glad that we've been removed from the terrorists hit list and we won't need these services anymore.
This is not going to happen, don't believe what you read. The Mormon good ol boy group that are the major players in this whole thing will cry cry cry, and that means less tithing to the church, and once the church feels the hit they go thier Mormon elected officials and get it aaallll taken care of ,just wait and see.
Whats up with the 'Must not have scored high enough on the FF test'??? Is that the best comeback you FF's have? Believe me, there are other tests out there that are harder and carry more prestige with it. If you all want to carry the 'Hero' chip on your shoulders, time to get off your high horses! Your gravy train is over!!
1-true-taxpayer : My screen name "Babyboomer" you can figure my age from that, no ?
hey rrlv1...
you have to admit it is pretty damn funny...
that these community destroying firemen try to brag about passing a firemen's test...
pretty damn funny indeed...
let's get one thing straight boys and girls...
the best and brightest among us did not aspire to become firemen...
in fact...
that thought never ever ever crossed their minds...
so for these community destroyers to try to brag about passing a test...
wow wee...
the inmates have taken over...
and this must not stand...
oh by the way...
do you need a college degree to become a fireman???
Birdie, keep spewing your rhetoric, because the only one listening is you. You might think your king poster on this site, but the true sentiment of the public has already spoken through townhall meetings. The majority do not want public safety to be cut whatsoever!
Birdie.-
You know what is really funny? You think you know what goes on in the mind of the "best and brightest". And no , you don't need a college degree to be a fireman, but you do need a high level of common sense. And after reading your posts over the past few months, well you get the picture.
----------------
rriv1-
I wish you would stop calling us "heros", we really don't care for it. As far as my "gravy train", do you even have any idea how FF's have a "gravy train"? Please explain your side of it, I just want to see if you are even up on the issues, or if you are just jumping on birdies' broken down bandwagon.
"We're going to keep doing what's in the public interest to totally reform our Fire Department so that it's efficient," he said. "Just like businesses have to change how they do things during economic downturns, so should the Fire Department."
This really rubs me the wrong way...why not run tax payer funded businesses efficiently all the time and not just during economic downturns????
I'm sorry people, the fire department cannot be run like a regular business. There are elements that may be, but as a whole it is impossible. It's just not the same. Spin it any way you want, but it can't work.
Taking a department that is already short staffed and shutting down units will only create life and death issues. It's not like doubling up the work load on another station or unit. If a unit is on a call, that's it. They can't leave early to go to another call that should be handled by a unit that was shut down. What kind of business decision is that? Is that how they believe they are keeping in the best interest the public?
Thanks race car diva, those salary figures are unbelievable. I'm glad those guys have to pay 50% in taxes. No doubt croc can explain why LV needs so many $250K fire chiefs and captains to put out fires and do paramedic work and solicit donations for muscular dystrophy (unless of course they have a "Towering Inferno" type disaster at Aria). Everyone should be aware of the figures at this website that are almost as shocking as ff's salaries:
www.usdebtclock.org
Unfunded medicare and social security is $350K per person and rising by the second--so who cares? Well now Congress is actually beginning to worry about the national debt and they won't be sending states any more stimulus money, not even bankrupt Calif. What that means for public workers is this--NOBODY'S JOB IS SAFE!!
As a civil engineer, I don't like the firemen's use of the word "engineer" for their middle man promotion between fireman and captain.
Firemen do not attend school to become engineers (mechanical, civil, chemical, electrical, etc..) they are fire technicians and are completely incapable of doing what a true engineer does. A fire technician or other verbage would be much more appropriate. An interview with a real fireman "engineer"
http://www.owlnotes.com/interviews/94/Fi...
even shows that they don't even work on the fire engines themselves. That job is left to a mechanic. An "engineer" in the fire department is essentially a firehouse logistics coordinator or an engine man if they so want to be called. This the same thing when a railcar conductor is called an engineer. They are not engineering anything. They are technicians, implementing and making use of true engineers' works.
How did the term engineer make its way into this thread??? Does someone need some attention. UNLVengineer, If you have a problem with firefighter engineers calling themselves engineers take it up with Websters Dictionary...As for them not going to school, they attend a rigorous training regimen studying water hydraulics, pump theory etc etc all from a national standard called the NFPA. Go back to your books and engineer something useful...that works
Tom Collins, Chris G proud both supporters of Steve Smith? Tom Collins proud of Steve Smith? This guy, and I do not know the man so their is no bias, should be fired just based on the premise of allowing his men and women to abuse sick time and rake in the millions of dollars of OT that put us deeper in the hole al these years. THAT'S ABUSE OF SICK LEAVE, TAXPAYER FRAUD, AND THEY KNEW ABOUT IT! HE'S THE FIRE CHIEF.
Croc-seriously? Why couldn't the department be ran like a regular business. By suggesting this I am certainly not saying that you need to go to 8hour shifts
To over simplify - You have "customers" that you need to have coverage for. The goal should be to provide a quality service in a cost effective manner. If that means eliminating overlapping services, and increasing synergies, then do it ALL the time...not just in dire times!
You guys get blamed but the whole structure if flawed. I realize that you are just a pawn in the overall picture but I do not have the same opinion on the unions. The unions job is to exploit the inaptitude of the city's negotiators to extract as much money as possible, with zero regard if the pay structure is warranted or not, for each and every member *(how is that for a spin haha!).
Our only voice is in public forums like this because we do not get a say in the negotiations. We do not get to say that we should be cognizance of overtime cost ALL THE TIME. If you or I was running the business you know that some of the questions they are bringing up should have been addressed along time ago.
If you are comfortable telling me that you, Croc1, would be okay with signing the checks that pay for all of the ff's OT and time off, then I may need to get more information to make an informed decision myself....I do doubt that you would be okay with your employees taking off 1 out of every 5.5 shifts (from earlier article stating that on average 20 days were used for vacation and sick days...your only scheduled 10 shifts a month!).
To simplify all that wordy stuff above:
I do not believe that the union members would be willing to sign off on all the benefits, time off, overtime etc. that they ask the city (taxpayers) to pay them.
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/cl...
Can't really blame the firemen for those salaries. Who is going to turn down an extremely generous salary and benefits package? Some people believe it is now time for a change though. Obviously, thousands upon thousands in Las Vegas are struggling to just pay the light bill, let alone a mortgage if they have one. All local taxes are now high (compared to where they were 10 yrs. ago), so people feel disgusted with some of the salaries and benefits they are paying for. Who can blame them? In the good times, nobody cared, and this is the result.
You're all a bunch of cry-babies! Who approved those crazy contracts? The county commissioners did!!
Can't merge the fire departments into one jurisdiction. Around 1977, Las Vegas and Clark County fire merged into one department only to be disbanded when the State Supreme Court ruled it disenfranchised rural county residents but they allowed Metro to combine. If I remember correctly
the state legislature passed a law preventing jurisdictions from merging so that law would have to be changed.
The changes that the County manager is implementing will have a negative impact on the community. Taking personnel who are experts in their field and using them as warm bodies to reduce overtime will only cause more problems especially those who are trained to work as a team. Who is going to do the work these people did before? Dumping hazmat and heavy rescue on the city who is already strapped for resources and personnel is just shifting the problem to
someone else.
If overtime is such a big issue, change the retirement system so overtime doesn't count towards retirement. That will bring down pension costs statewide for all agencies under the public employees retirement system.
Do you really believe this?
Commissioner Steve Sisolak, the most vocal critic of firefighter pay over the past year, said the Fire Department has "exhibited real creativity and innovation, and they need to be applauded."
"I'm real supportive of the idea of cutting back and not having any sacred cows," he added. "I think we're sending a message ... that we do value the taxpayer dollar and we're taking this budget crisis seriously."
It is my experience that this commission does not have the taxpayers best interest at heart. It's all about what is best for Clark County and not it's taxpayers.
Leave the firemen alone. They are the ones protecting the taxpayers.
manfromuncle-
To answer your question is simple, and has been stated a million times. If you had a fully staffed department there would be no OT. And yes we are short on chiefs too.
And if you matteress caught on fire, it would probably be a "Towering Inferno" to you. (I really dislike people who try to minimize our job without an ounce of experience doing it).
------------------------------
UNLVengineer-
I'm sure you are very smart, but "fire Engineer" is an industry term, Just as "Civil Engineer" Don't worry, everyone still thinks your smart.
---------------------------
WOXOF-
Once again for the truly numb. The OT that "put us in this hole" was 100% your politicians doing, not ours. Get your facts straight..........FINALLY.
----------------------------
akrowdybuck-
You just answered your own question. "You have "customers" that you need to have coverage for. The goal should be to provide a quality service in a cost effective manner. If that means eliminating overlapping services, and increasing synergies, then do it ALL the time...not just in dire times!"
Quality service is our goal, cutting services that we are already short on is not in the best interest of customers in any market. If you only have one specialized team and have two emergencies, it is VERY likely lives could be lost.
I do agree that things should be run in an efficient manner at all times. But this whole thing of these politicians ruining things and them blaming everyone one else really makes me want to puke.
"Quality service is our goal, cutting services that we are already short on is not in the best interest of customers in any market. If you only have one specialized team and have two emergencies, it is VERY likely lives could be lost."
And IF you had 10 more stations and 500 more ff it is very likely that lives could be saved. IF we had more cops are streets would be safer...IF we had more ER locations and highly trained doctors at every one then more people could survive...IF we had more teacher for every student then they would be able to learn much more. The law of diminishing returns states that you get marginally less for each additional unit added.
I don't think you can use this arguement without supporting it more (e.g. how often has the second haz mat team been deployed where it was critical and concretely led to saving lives?)
To play contrarian and to assume that two teams will in fact save lives then why not have a third...four...five anyone? For the same reason that you do not have three and four you need to explain how the second unit really contributes and do so with concrete real world examples.
our heros...las vegas fire fighters.
what a laugh!
ha,ha,ha.
akrowdybuck-
You are correct. This is exactly why an emergency services (FD) cannot be run like a normal business. We should have a third or fourth that would be in the "best interest of the public". If there was one time where both of these teams were deployed at the same time and a life was saved, they just paid for themselves. If you don't believe me, imagine that life was a family member. Again, you are not dealing with tangible items that are bought and sold, you are dealing with people and how they live. Life in general.
If you are short one classroom (teacher), no one will lose their life or quality of life, but if you are short a life saving team when needed, that could be very bad.
You also have to take into consideration not only has this city grown by leaps and bounds for the past ten years, we have the millions of visitors every year that have to be taken care of also.
I think I rambled a bit, sorry. A lot of activity at the house today.
wakazawa makes a good point... Taking individuals who are experts in their specialties, people that have devoted hundreds and thousands of individual hours of training and actual emergency incident mitigation to hone their skills, and closing these units, is an enormous loss to the department and this entire valley. Their experience is immeasurable when it comes time to actually save lives and keep everyone safe while doing so. Turning these senior experienced individuals into rovers that simply cover OT spots, rather than hire new rookies to cover these is the equivalent of swapping Major Winters for Private Smith.
If all we're looking to do is put a body with a pulse in the seat, than just get it over with, bid it out to the lowest bidder. Forget rewarding experience. Forget the value of employing people that care about the quality of what they do. Just outsource it like so many other jobs in this country. Some private company, likely endorsed by the chamber of commerce, will swear that they can do the same job or better for only minimum wage, and surely they will be able to fill the seats, but make no mistake... While you currently have some of the best and highly trained firefighters in the nation, your new medical and fire protection will be similar to that of a third world country.
Some of the regulars that post here seem to only care about the gross dollar value of the many services provided to them by their fire department. They like to simplify the job and experience of their firefighters. They talk about us being nothing more than hose holders that only have GEDs.
These regulars like to propose just having a volunteer dept to further reduce cost, I can do you one better... there are many smaller jurisdictions that collect money for they're services directly from the end user. The average home owner in CC pays less than $10/month for 24/7/365 medical and fire coverage, where experts would respond within a few minutes. But in my above proposed minimum wage idea, If you don't pay, you don't get a yard plaque. If you don't have a yard plaque, you don't get any help. Minimum wage only covers equipment and some personnel costs, the rest is covered by your direct subscription. Pay up or fend for yourself. BTW, even if you choose to pay, it might take 15 minutes or greater (maybe 30min?) before the first responder is at your location.
And if you're one of the regulars that touts your readiness to start a bucket brigade, and think that you and the good will of our neighbors will be able to react to whatever emergency life sends your way, remember the numerous stories this week about local fires and drowning... where neighbors, mail carriers and others gladly did nothing or did not know what to do when they're emergency was sprung on them.
Clark County Fire Department is now the largest department in the United States with the least amount of resources. I choose to live in a city that has the best Trauma Centers, Police Department, and Fire Department. We now have three Trauma Centers in the Valley, and only had one in the 90's. Police Department have more specialty units, form Swat, Fraud investigators, Bomb technicians etc.. Now our Fire Departments are taking away highly trained Rescue Technicians and Hazmat Technicians, to save money. Hire more Firefighters to stop overtime, but do not take away these resources.
I know some guys who tested and scored high on the FF tests, they never got recruited, talk about your good ol boy network, now we find out these guys have been getting rich on taxpayer money, and yet we are laying off teachers, nurses, not hiring new police officers, cutting programs in our schools, the kids have no books, on and on and on the list goes! Then when all the other county andd state entities had hiring freezes, cost of living pay cuts, lay offs etc. the firefighters refused to negotiate or compromise, or make any concessions. Hmmm lets see, protection if the price is right? if they were armed they would be called mercenaries. I say consolidate them all, eliminate all the overpaid ff fatcats, get rid of the big salaries< i know there are lots of qualified able bodied people to fill the slots of those that cant afford to work for such a small salary!
Birdie just get your gurney...
@vegasbdw1-
You are correct about not everyone gets hired post written test. Unfortunately there are about 3 more steps to get the job, about 7 or 8 months worth of testing. So maybe your buddies choked on an interview or something. -
This is just another "PERFECT" example of someone spewing their ignorance and talking about something they know absolutely nothing about. But hey, thanks for the entertainment.
So the county is going to shut down their hazmat and heavy rescue. So who is going to run hazmat and heavy rescue calls? As a city taxpayer, I will be damned if the city hazat and heavy rescue ever run into the county again. If you are in the county and need a hazmat or heavy rescue response, I say, "good luck to ya."
croc1...Maybe vegasbdw1 buddy wasn't LDS or have a buddy and/or family member on the inside..BTW another"PERFECT"expample of how the FD works.
ABOUT TIME SOMETHING IS DONE!
This should be the start---much more to be done!
MR906-
I'm Catholic and was hired, no buddies and or family. So much for your outrageous theory. -
You people just keep proving my point, don't post idiotic rhetoric if you don't know what you're talking about, and you absolutely don't .
Last night AMR went "system zero" in the valley for an hour or so. That means, fair citizens, that they had NOBODY available to respond to 911 calls. The LV city fire had 9 transports during this time. Every AMR unit that came available were sent to calls in the COUNTY during that stretch. Just thought you'd like to know how ambulance jockeys care about the citizens in the city.
You guys need to put down the pipe, this is smoke and mirrors and thats it. Wake the @#$% up,the good ol boy system is not gonna let this happen so quit arguing over it. All the debating in the world isn't going to change anything, the disease will not go away it will just fester til it has infected everything connnected to it. The powers to be in the CCFD will take care of thier lil group that they go to church with.
hey vgasbb...
system zero...
wow...
so you are telling me that we pay our firemen 180k a year on average...
180k...
got that pal...
180k...
on average...
and there was an hour or so of no amr coverage...
wow...
you know what that screams to me son...
that screams to me the the system is screwed up...
i mean wholly and completely screwed up...
and you know what the smart thing to do when a system is wholly and completely screwed up...
like say an old run down outdated casino...
you know what you do....
you blow it up...
completely blow it up...
and start over from scratch...
that's what i would do...
i would wait until the contract expires...
and then i would say...
thank you dear firemen for your service...
but when you make 180k on average in a community that has over 14% unemployment...
you destroy the community...
so here's the deal...
you either accept a 50% reduction in salary...
and we cap the maximum amount you can make at 90k...
or we find a replacement for you...
now...
you have 24 hours to decide...
we hope you stay...
and quite frankly we both know you ain't going nowhere because you probably don't even have a college degree...
but if you decide to leave...
we will fill your spot in a day...
two days tops...
best of luck...
your 24 hours begins right now...
hey croc...
i will give you this my friend...
you sure as hell picked the right screen id...
because all of your stuff is just that...
a croc...
you know what pal...
let me make it real simple for you...
because i know you are slow...
ready...
UNEMPLOYMENT IS OVER 14%...
LAS VEGAS LEADS THE NATION IN FORECLOSURES...
THE AVERAGE FIREMAN MAKES 180K A YEAR...
now...
did your ever play the childhood game one of these things doesn't belong with the other things...
well...
let me tell you what doesn't belong...
THE AVERAGE FIREMAN MAKES 180K A YEAR...
it doesn't belong...
and it must not stand...
@ croc1:OK so I got on late and read most posts. Obviously you are a FF. You defend the FF and seem to think that your salaries are fair. Please explain to us how 180K per year is a fair wage. Don't give me OT pay or any of that. Don't say we don't understand what it takes. Don't tell us how hard it is. There is so much pork spending in the FF and if you don't see it and believe its OK, you my friend are the reason people know the FD is ripping us off. Birdies right in the which one doesn't belong. We all have had to take pay cuts. We all have had to give up things. You and your co-workers are certainly not above it. This is why most people in the community don't trust you. How about something as simple as: Why do you stand on street corners collecting money for MD and get paid OT? If your so community minded why don't you do it on your own time? These are the types of things that piss people off.
chuck321-
What I am defending is the fact that the blame is being placed on the wrong people. You have people like birdie who hate their own life and are trying to drag everyone down with them. Contrary to what he would like you to think, we are not responsible for the economic downturn in this city. Our union did not hold a gun to the commissioners head for our contracts.
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"Don't give me OT pay." Well my friend, my base pay is $83k a year, I made about $105 last year because of OT. I was "force hired" to work Christmas Day.
In case you are new to all this, your politicians asked our union to "step up" and work more OT so more FF's would not have to be hired and save the taxpayers some cash. This is a fact. Now that they screwed up they are blaming everyone but themselves. Our union came to the table with significant concessions that were agreed upon by the city manager. Then were shot down by the commissioners. We didn't take a COLA raise for 2 years now.
But let me ask you this, the city has no money right? Then why are they building a $50 million mob museum or spending $45 million just on "furnishings" for the $300 million city hall?
I've said many times before and I think I speak for most of us, we will do whatever comes down the pike. We will continue to do our jobs professionally and to the best of our ability just like we've always done. I think that's what makes Birdie so mad. He can rant and rave about $180k average, (I've never made that much so i must be brining the average down). If this makes him feel better then that's OK, we have helped him then too.
croc1
$83k base, $22k in OT (which means you made over 25% of your base), then easily another $60 in benefits etc etc.
That would put you in the ballpark of the $180k.
As we have gone over before, I think the $180k includes the whole package.
unsilent-
How do you know I made $60k in benefits? By the way, I just looked at your bible, transperantnevada.com and it had my salary for 2009 $20k more than my W2. Not including benefits, it also said my benefits were $50k. Now let me see the breakdown of that, don't just throw numbers out there and expect me to buy it. You shouldn't either, if they are $20k off on salary alone, why would an intelligent, rational person eat that up like the Gospel?
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unsilent-
In all honesty, I truly believe you are a sensible person. Just from everything that has gone on here in the last six months isn't there just a hint of doubt in your mind that some of the stuff that has been put out there is propaganda to deflect from some other issues. Look at what these politicians have done lately. 1. Sisolak attacks FF's for the on duty boot drive, stating he didn't know it was done on duty after signing proclamations supporting it for how many years. If that was you wouldn't you feel like an idiot. 2. Oscar Goodman complaining about not having any money in the budget, but yet spending hundreds of millions on mob museums, city hall, parks, etc. If that were you, how would you expect to explain that?
Come on man, there is just too much "back door" stuff going on. Not that we don't have some issues also, there just seems to me the citizens are being herded in one direction only. What do you think?
croc1: First of all I do not agree with the spending thats going on with the mob mueseum or city hall. That is bull especially in this economy. They say it creates jobs but I do think its enough. You also state you haven't had a raise in two years. Well my answer to that is, and not to be sarcastic so what. Many people haven't had raises. I sure haven't and I've been in the business I'm in for 30 years. My base was much higher in 06 and now is half of what it was. I'm sure you may be good at your job but does that mean you get a raise. FF's get raises for time on duty. This is ludicreous. I know many FF's and although they are good acquaintences I still think they are overpayed. I know there schedules and what they think of there jobs. There is alot of back room dealings not only at the city but in your union and the people that work the system. We need real business people to run this thing and try to fix the mess that the council and your union has made.
croc1
Between benefits, pension, retirement accounts etc it is easily $60k in compensation. I believe you stated you have a family, which means even more insurance coverage. I know what gets paid to employees in the private sector for just insurance, so I can easily assume what it would be for you. One of the perks of a govt job was always the insurance benefits.
Based on the numbers you gave, I can see the average compensation package being about $180k per year.
As for your second point.....Sisolak is a rookie, and maybe didn't realize everything that w as going on until he was a little more experienced. I do appreciate the fact that he seems to be looking at things from a business point of view. He also does not seem to be afraid to take on unions, while others seem to be in the pocket of these unions.
Let me stop about Sisolak before I am accused of being him again.
chuck321-
We actually see eye to eye on many things. All I meant by no COLA for 2 years was that we have made concessions prior to now. Right or wrong it was in our contract and we gave it up, we didn't have to, but we did for the good of the city. It may not seem like much now, but at the time it was what was needed. I'm just defending us from the recent allegations that we are not willing to do our part. We are.
As far as back room dealings, I'm just a little fish in a big pond.
But I will say again that I really don't believe the FD can be run like a regular business. It's just not the same. What is the answer, hell I don't know, but as a business owner I'm sure you'll agree, you are never going to make everyone happy.
croc1
As for Goodman saying there is no money, but spending on mob museums, and city hall etc....I agree with you to a degree. It is not necessary and probably shouldn't be happening.
Politics are politics. Everyone has an agenda....this city is run with such inefficiency and wastefulness.
You know I have said the fd is necessary, but it could be so much more efficient then it is.
unsilent-
OK, i won't accuse anymore, LOL. Sisolak is a rookie? He sure knew what he was doing when he sued the (city/county). Why is that not ever mentioned when talking about him? Did that money not come out of the general fund? Where did it come from? Maybe this doesn't have any bearing on anything, but to me it is just another example of your hero politicians hypocrisy. You know the whole glass house and stone throwing thing.
Ok, so he sued the city, in a court of law, and won. So he must have had a case.
What does that have to do with this issue?
So because he won a suit, should he not speak up about this issue?
Look at what is going on around the world, Greece recently....You cannot sustain having private sector funds shrinking while public sector funds keep rising. You need the private ector to pay for the public sector.
Just saying we won't accept a raise this year isn't enough. The wasteful spending needs to be curtailed.
Just out of curiosity, how old are you croc1? Don't need an exact age, just ballpark it. 35-40? over 40?
unsilent-
The actual lawsuit really doesn't have anything to do directly with this issue, it's the hypocrisy of politicians. You cannot argue the state of this economy is the fault of these politicians. But I have yet to hear one of them take any kind of responsibility for this mess, they just blame everyone else and they act like they are the heros that are going to make everything right.
I do agree with the logic that the private sector pays for the public sector. But before these "heros" start publicly bashing honest hardworking people that are dong the job the way these "leaders" asked them to, they should stop the wasteful spending and self serving agendas. But when some in the private sector, no matter how small the %, buy this smoke screen they set up to hide their own indiscretions, it makes for chaos without leadership. We fight amongst ourselves while they sit back and smile at what they have done. They're safe now, the focus is elsewhere.
I completely respect you're opinion on this matter, really. And working together we could probably come to an equal a equitable solution, but for now we may have to just agree to disagree on some of these issues.
As for my age, old enough my friend :).
deffering or passed on a cola??? My understanding is that you deferred a COLA for two years and then you get it...not much of a concession! Please do not treat us like we are idiots and use that for your arguement if I am accurate in my assumption
Hey how much do ya wanna bet croc1 is bloggin on county time??????LOL
If you want to stop overtime, then the Fire Department must hire enough personnel.
1. Hire enough personnel to staff all the stations( They depend on firefighters to work overtime to staff two stations.)
2. Hire extra Firefighters to fill the vacation spots, and potential vacancies created by firefighters calling in sick, or injured.
3. I know Firefighters are always around sick people( increasing their chance of becoming sick), and It is a very physical job that has a higher risk of injuries. The department must punish sick time abusers, especially those who are trying to create overtime for their coworkers.
DO NOT TAKE SERVICES AWAY FROM THE CITIZENS AND VISITORS OF CLARK COUNTY! CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT IS NOT TAKING AWAY THEIR SPECIALITY UNITS ( TECHNICAL RESCUE, HAZMAT), THEY ARE 1/2 THE SIZE OF CLARK COUNTY IF NOT SMALLER.
IDEAS TO SAVE $$$$$
1. HAVE THE COUNTY START TURNING OFF ALL THE STREET LIGHTS.
2. STOP SPENDING MONEY ON STRAY ANIMALS.
3. PUT ALL INMATES OUTSIDE IN TENTS. OUR SOLDIERS DON'T HAVE AC, OR CABLE TV. PUT THEM IN TENTS, AND THEY CAN SLEEP ON THE DIRT. THIS MIGHT EVEN REDUCE CRIME.
4. DO WHAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DOES. MAKE ALL EMPLOYEES WORK 56 HOURS A WEEK BEFORE RECEIVING OVERTIME PAY, AND FORCE THEM TO WORK OVERTIME TO SAVE MONEY ON HIRING NEW EMPLOYEES. WE CAN SAVE A LOT OF MONEY ON BENEFITS AND RETIREMENTS. THIS IS A STANDARD PRACTICE IN A LOT OF PRIVATE BUSINESSES.
5.LETS GET RID OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE AMR, AND EVERYONE CAN BUY A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.
6. NO MORE POLICE. EVERYONE CARRY THEIR OWN WEAPONS, AND WE CAN MAKE CITIZENS ARREST. WE STILL NEED CORRECTION OFFICERS, BUT LETS REDUCE THEIR PAY.
7. NO MORE SHCOOL BUSES. KIDS WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL, THEY CAN WALK. MY GRANDFATHER WALKED 5 MILES TO SCHOOL IN THE SNOW, AND THAT WAS ONE WAY. LOL
8. NO MORE FOOD STAMS OR SECTION 8 HOUSING. THEY CAN SLEEP IN TENTS . MY GRANDFATHER HELPED BUILD HOVER DAM. A LOT OF THE WORKERS SLEPT IN TENTS.
9. LETS CLOSE DOWN THE SCHOOLS. NEITHER ONE OF MY GRANDFATHERS FINISHED 5TH GRADE, AND THEY DID OK. BOTH SEVED OUR COUNTRY IN WWII. KIDS DON'T APPRECIATE THEIR FREE EDUCATION.
10. THIS IS A SERIOUS ONE. THE STRIP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 10% -15% OF THE CLARK COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT CALLS. HOTELS CALL 911 FOR EVERYTHING. LETS GET SOME OF OUR TAX DOLLARS BACK FROM THE VISITORS OF LAS VEGAS. HAVE ALL HOTELS CHARGE $2 FOR ALL GUEST. THIS GOES TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. THIS WILL GENERATE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR, SAVING US TAX PAYERS A LOT OF MONEY.
Lets not take our Fire Department back 20 years! The members of the Clark County Fire Department have worked hard to become one of the best departments in Southern Nevada. Clark County Fire Department Technical Rescue helped Henderson, and City fire department start their program.
There are many ways we can save money, but at what sacrifice? Please don't ruin one of the best Fire Departments in the State, because people are jealous that some firefighters are making an "x" amount of dollars. If a few Firefighters want to spend 20 days a month away from their family let them. They might make 200k, but they are spending a 1/3 of their life away from their families. Don't be jealous, just appreciate the fact you can sleep in the same bed is your wife every night, and you don't have to wait three days to give your kids a kiss goodnight.
lasvegas-
If you notice, most of the "haters" here would rather pay more in taxes just so no one makes more than they do. If they paid $20 a year instead of $8 a year for FD and kept every single FF under $80k, they would jump for joy. Some just refuse to see the big picture, exactly what their hero politicians want. Keep the spotlight off their wasteful spending.
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akrowdybuck-
your'e right, deferred does refer to receiving the raises at a later time. But that is not the case. We have no intention of trying to recoup that money. As for "passed", that pretty much means you don't get it. I think you knew that one. - I will not intentionally try and treat anyone like an idiot........Well unless......