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Nearly a third of lenders no-shows for foreclosure mediations
Saturday, July 24, 2010 | 2:05 a.m.
Barbara Buckley
Sun coverage
CARSON CITY — Assembly Speaker Barbara Buckley says she’s anxious to see more sanctions imposed by the courts on lenders who boycott the fledgling foreclosure mediation program aimed at saving homes for Nevadans.
The program Friday released the first-year results showing that 29 percent of lenders did not appear for mediation sessions, had no authority to make a deal or did not bring all the documentation required.
Nevada has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the nation, and 11,716 people applied for the state program to get a chance to meet with their lender to work something out with a mediator present.
The program, created by the 2009 Legislature, completed 3,860 mediations, and 1,674 agreements were reached between the lender and the homeowner.
Buckley, a Democrat from Las Vegas who authored the legislation, said the numbers show its need. The program was overwhelmed with requests for mediation.
Ron Titus, director of the Administrative Office of the Courts, which oversees the program, said the second year should go more smoothly.
“We still have a backlog, but our recently implemented case management system and the addition of new mediators will only improve the efficiency of the program,” Titus said.
As of June 30, there were 270 mediators.
When the lender does not show up for the mediation session, a foreclosure of the home cannot proceed, and the homeowner stays in the residence. That happened 1,131 times of the 3,860 completed cases.
Titus said that in only 445 mediations, or 12 percent, the lender got certificates from the program permitting foreclosures to go forward. The law says a lender cannot complete foreclosure on a home without first obtaining a certificate from the foreclosure mediation program.
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This is a good chance to smoke out all the bad lenders.Obviously it's working.The bottom line here is it's better to keep the current home owner in the house than to toss them out.The stop plug here for the home owner is certificate required by the lender, by law. The 11,716 people getting in line says it all. This is a huge mess to clean up but if the loss of jobs doesn't bottom out...everything else will be pulled down with it.
Well if the lenders no show or do not send someone empowered to negotiate then perhaps the solution is simply to void the loan. Hand the house to the home owner. My guess is lenders will quickly start making an appearance ready to talk.
JSin
Wow! "void the loan" that sounds like a great idea.
I havent made any payments on my mortgage since nov09 and I just got this mediation letter last month telling me to send $200 to start the process of mediation. I thought about it hard. Honestly, I am ready to move out of this place. So bring it on foreclosure! Im guessing I have another month or two or even longer since most lenders are probably jammed from all those loans they approved way back when without any documents needed and/or documents to prove that the buyer can actually afford the payments. Wow! even my dog could have bought a house.
So Dopeboymark...are you "unemployed".Have you lost your job? OR just bored with it all ? Do you have a legitimate reason for foreclosing,doesn't sound like it.
"No one forced these homeowners to buy the house, so they need to pay or get out. Rent an apartment."
That's exactly right mistermoose. I'm sick and tired of hearing about government programs that will not work anyways.
Goverment, GTFU out of the way and let the market sort itself out. Quit prolonging the agony maybe things will bottom and we can have a normally appreciating housing market. Foreclose on those deadbeats to clear the market.
is ron titus any relation to dina
Many of the second chance group have reniged again. All this does is let the irresponsible be just that again and again and we end up with the bill. Same goes for the irresponsible credit card bunch. In this day and age it is the conservative who doesn't overspend and lives within his means who is the bad guys in this society. If you make the bill then pay it!!!!! All this is, is politicians chumming for votes.
"This is a good chance to smoke out all the bad lenders.Obviously it's working."
Babyboomer -- not really. I communicated with one typical husband-wife Reno-area homeowners who tried that mediation. The worst part wasn't the attorney for BAC showing up unprepared (got the job just the day before). It was the mediator -- his website showed him to not only be an attorney (why do they all have to be Bar members??) but a CPA as well, apparently qualified, assured them he was neutral and fair. The homeowners went in with written proof BAC not only didn't own the loan, neither it nor its foreclosing trustee (ReContrust) even knew who did. The "mediation" was a tag-team match of two attorneys working them over to get a commitment to pay -- "we're trying to help you!"
mistermoose -- your post showed how completely ignorant you are on this entire issue. Do try to post something relevant next time.
"If you're going to take my house away from me, you better own the note." -- Joe Lents (who hasn't made a payment on his $1.5 million mortgage since 2002) in Bloomberg's 2/22/08 "Banks Lose to Deadbeat Homeowners as Loans Sold in Bonds Vanish"
DOPEBOYMARK is an example of what a typical American is all about. Use the system and expect others to pick u the tab.
Over half of the people that do make agreements with their banks don't honor the agreements and leave the banks (taxpayers) holding the bag anyway.
Everyone, including the government wants to lay the blame on the lenders when the truth be told it is the dead beat Americans that are really to blame.
Time to let most of them sink or swim. If they have a choice of the streets or paying their bills on their own what will they choose?
"The 11,716 people getting in line says it all."
says what? Ill get in line for 3% 30 year fixed too. WTF gives here. Ive got an 800+ credit score and I dont get my mortgage fixed to 3%.
11,716 people were tricked by lenders? BS. Those people all got what they wanted, a house and atm machine.
Look folks, regular hardship is already baked into the number of defaults/ lending business. The number we are seeing now is just irresponsible people who had no business entering any type of contract requiring foresight beyond next week.
Take the property back. Hand out rental applications.
For those who believe that there will be no consequences for walking away from a home just because they are "under water" on their mortgage: Three weeks ago Fannie Mae announced that there will be no Fannie Mae mortgages (75% of the new "paper" now being written" for SEVEN YEARS for those who have been foreclosed on which were Fannie Mae "warranted", had the ability to make the payments and failed to attempt to negotiate with the lender to avoid the foreclosure. They also announced that they also be taking legal recourse to recover losses from those who did "strategic foreclosures" - bought another home then walked away from the first home. So . . think carefully before you take such a step. You can run, but you can't hide, from debts due to the Federal government - of which Fannie is now part.
"Over half of the people that do make agreements with their banks don't honor the agreements and leave the banks (taxpayers) holding the bag anyway. Everyone, including the government wants to lay the blame on the lenders when the truth be told it is the dead beat Americans that are really to blame."
vegaslee -- where did you get that little bit of ignorance?
Most of the foreclosers don't even own the loans, therefore they're not owed a thing. The proof is found right on the original Notes -- if they can be found. The law controlling those Notes, which so many ignore, nearly a millenium old.
"...I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." -- Thomas Jefferson in his May 28, 1816, letter to John Taylor
If the lender doesn't show two times, the borrower gets the house for free.
When we bailed out the banks we took away any incentive for them to work with homeowners. Face it, mortgage ownwers; bank executives; politicians overseeing Fannie Mae; Wall Street executives; all profited, while the average tax payer picks up the loses.
foreclosure mediation, what a joke. i don't know anybody that has successfully modified their loan. it's all just hot air from the banks. fact: big banks DO NOT CARE about their customers.
"When the lender does not show up for the mediation session, a foreclosure of the home cannot proceed, and the homeowner stays in the residence. That happened 1,131 times of the 3,860 completed cases."
As an educated observer of how these "national" residential real estate lenders operate, I have a serious question which should be investigated by way of examining foreclosure trustees' deeds recorded with the Clark County Recorder, and comparing them to the Administrative Office of the Courts' records:
When I look at the Recorder's records for foreclosed houses, very often I see that these national mortgage lenders are using "foreclosure trustees" who are out-of-towners, not from Las Vegas. I have a suspicion that the mortgage lenders who refuse to show up at the mediations are simply holding their foreclosures, and then recording grant deeds from these out of state foreclosure trustees, taking title to homes when Nevada law concerning mediation has not been complied with.
The question of whether "someone" is occupying the house is a secondary issue, if the lender has determined through pre-foreclosure investigations (which they commonly do) that the pre-foreclosure owner was not a resident of the house. Alternatively, these lenders know that most foreclosed upon homeowners don't have the cash to wage a wrongful foreclosure lawsuit.
In follow-up to the very important story above, the Sun, the County Recorder and the Administrative Office of the Courts should be looking at what is being recorded by the Recorder, in terms of foreclosure trustees' deeds to lenders.
If these foreclosure trustees' deeds without mediation are slipping through, there needs to be a "friendly" lawsuit with the County Recorder as defendant, to cause the issuance of an injunction against the Recorder's office recording foreclosure trustees' deeds without proof the foreclosing lender successfully completed mediation.
We will recover AFTER a real estate recovery. Real estate CANNOT RECOVER UNTIL Buckley and company get out of here and LET THE MARKET WORK. The banks are not even trying to sell the decent houses in their inventories. They list and move the dumps and damaged and seem to be holding everything else for later.
Government programs need to address retraining and reemployment for those 40 and older. It seems they've decided anyone over 55 is retired, ready or not.
Say, I think that we might just be onto something... I'm not for simply giving away homes for free or anything like that. But if the lenders are failing to show up for mediations, perhaps we have an opportunity to boost tax revenue. Fine the lenders if they don't show up, force the to incur a fine. Furthermore issue a "3 Strikes" rule. If they fail to show up 3 times in a row, the state initiates Eminent Domain to take ownership of the property. From there the state in turn drafts a new Mortgage with the current homeowner based upon the fair market value of the home.
If after Eminent Domain has been initiated the Mortgage companies want the property back, charge them an exorbitant sum in the form of taxes, fines, Infrastructure charges, and legal fees. Make it so high that it either becomes unprofitable for them, or the State just rakes in the cash.
If we did this, the state could easily become flush with cash in no time. Minimal money fronted by the state in the form of Legal costs. Once established there would be a large cash flow of mortgage payments made to the state, with virtually no liability since the real estate was acquired via Eminent Domain rather than a cash purchase. Either way the result becomes sustained property taxes, as well as economic stability in the local community.
Same exact thing we can do with abandoned vehicles, we can do with abandoned Real Estate. Abandoned by lenders who do NOT enter into mediation.
THIS IS *EXACTLY* WHY GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET COMPLETELY OUT OF THE HOUSING and LOAN INDUSTRY.
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and all the other GIVEAWAY programs that started this 'buy-your-loan' garbage predicated all of this.
THESE LENDERS, UNLESS THEY HOLD THEIR OWN PAPER (which most of them DON'T) made BIG-TIME bucks off of fees, surcharges, and anything else they could throw onto the cost of origination, purchase, recording, etc., (you name it) THEN SOLD THE LOAN OFF TO GET *MORE DOUGH* TO GO OUT AND MAKE MORE BAD LOANS WITH.
That includes using that other CESSPOOL of funds called BROKERED DEPOSITS.
ALL THIS STARTED BACK IN 1999 with FANNIE MAE, then under the direction of Franklin D. Raines (another Harvard graduate and Oxford Rhodes Scholar), and with pressure from the Bill Clinton administration.
Heres a quote from a New York Times article dated September 30, 1999 titled "Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending",
"...."From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us," said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. "If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry."..."
DID YOU GET THAT..?
"...the government will have to step up and bail them out..."
SPOKEN IN 1999.....?
FANNIE MAE IS NOW IN 2010 GETTING A BLANK GOVERNMENT CHECK TO GET BAILED OUT. A *BLANK* CHECK that taxpayers (you, me and everybody else) is going to write.
And you said you are going to vote for WHO, again..........?
Everyone here has a point to make (good or bad) but does anyone here know if the State of Nevada is doing anything to cap this from happening again? All I hear is a bunch of really angry people venting...and thats fine, now that I think about it I see nothing in print that Nevada is taking steps to correct this or keep it from happening again. Did I miss something ?
HERE ARE THE FACTS I sat in a mediation with a friend. Before the lender came in he told all of use how it works. 1st thing is the lender does not want o work with anyone. They make more money off a foreclosure. ALL the lenders have an insurance policy. Say you own 400k and the house is worth 200k. If the lender takes the house and sells it for 200k they get the other 200k from the insurance. So why would they want to work out any deal with the home owner. "The other fact the mediator pointed out when asked about not having the right doc's to show they own the note." He said the lender sends a request to the court "judge Mosley" and you got it right. He just signs the the order so they can foreclose. Just look at all the review that come before him. the courts don't care. the only person out there trying to help anyone is Barbara Buckley. NO ONE but her. The banks don't care because they know they have the courts in their pockets and what judge would put a hole in his or her pocket and let the funds fall out. THANK YOU BARBARA BUCKLEY you should be our President. that's right because Obama has no holes in his pockets.
ronster -- excellent post!
CynicalObserver -- two points to be made about your post: 1) those out-of-towners are notoriously hard to serve and get into court to hold accountable, since few if any of them register with the states they're raping; and 2) original DOT's are recorded, not the Notes, the point being the centuries-old law of negotiable instruments (as recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1872) says the mortgage is a nullity if separate from the Note. Yet that's exactly what foreclosures are -- all executed solely on the Deeds of Trust.
"The banks don't care because they know they have the courts in their pockets and what judge would put a hole in his or her pocket and let the funds fall out."
theydontcare -- depends on the court. The federal bench has taken a hard and united stand against one major flaw in mortgages, MERS being the beneficiary on so many deed of trust. Check that out @ http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/oct...
Well, Bank of America keeps refusing to work with me, so I've started closing some of the 5 accounts. Switched to Chase. The mortgage rate just went down again. I give Bank of America about another 3 years before they start begging for more money and there is an executive reorganization.
You can only kick a dog so many times before it turns on you and bites you and BofA has kicked a LOT of dogs.
las vegas is dead, folks.
dump that house and move someplace else.
stevem is right
To many people in Vegas and no jobs to support them. Let the bank have it and move on.
We have a good 10 years of bad times coming.
No one Dems, Rep will fix this mess but time.
SAVE YOUR MONEY
I am the AMERICAN DREAM!
I have 3 words for the people "cash for keys".
This is probably the most stupid program out there right now and I just cant help but to be part of it. Not paying the mortgage, being foreclosed, and now these banks that I owe money to, want to pay me $4500 just to move out of the place. Wow! I am so happy to be an American. Im even thinking of joining the army. I hear they will eliminate some of my debts once I join and get shipped to Afghanistan.
I am paying the rates I agreed to pay when signing. Why should the guy next door get a break? Let the banks foreclose on those who do not want to pay their debts.
Can we look forward to lenders reneging on their contractural obligations when home values rise and the government steps in and forces buyers into mediating higher mortgage payments with their lenders?
BTW: Good luck to the unemployed with bad credit seeking future employment and financing -- you're going to need it.
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It is sad dopeyboymark, alot of people (amidst the real estate runup) stepped up to larger homes, sometimes putting anywhere from 20% to 50% down on their new homes. Unfortunately, these are the first banks foreclose on. The no money down crowd are still sitting in their homes. I can't call it, but.....
theydontcare
"HERE ARE THE FACTS I sat in a mediation with a friend"
The old "I have a friend routine,I love it!
peace out
There must be truth to "theydontcare" post....the home next door has been vacant and vandalized, having been foreclosed on since mid 2009. We even put a deadbolt on it to try and keep kids and vagrants out since the bank never listed it for sale. Well, 2 days ago, the original owner visited to check the damage because the bank offered it back to them for 1/3 its value! The bank has gotten it's money from the govt insurance and now seems to want to double-dip by selling it back to the owner....they could have done a modification, but it seems now that the bank wins and so does the former owner since he can purchase it back for way less! By the way, the owner admitted to causing most of the damage prior to moving! Only the TAXPAYER is taking the hit! Go figure!
I just love this. "smoke out the bad lenders".
That would be somebody dumb enough to loan money to people that simply didn't have the ability to pay in the first place?
They probably don't bother to show up because they have CONTRACTS that don't include mediation in case of default. It is probably voluntary and they just decide not to play.
Nice campaign plug for Buckley by the SUN though.
Maybe the "Bad Lenders" put a gun to these deadbeats heads to make them sign these adjustable rate mortgages........the problem with the world today is, everyone thinks they're a victim, rather than take responsibility for their stupid decision making skills.
mistermoose -- I see you're another one who just makes it all up as he goes along, and that makes you irrelevant here.
To answer anyway -- to be a "deadbeat" one must first owe the debt, second the obligation must be due, and third the creditor must have the legal right to collect.
Scott, Spartacus -- you're both so simple you don't understand no money is really lent. Have you taken a close look at one of those Notes? Didn't think so.
LET'S SEE, OLD HARRY CAN MAKE SOME PHONE CALLS AND CLAIM TO SAVE 22,000 JOBS AT CITY CENTER, BUT HE CAN'T CALL A FEW BANKS ABOUT THIS STUFF? I THOUGHT OBUMMER WAS GOING TO HELP PEOPLE WITH ALL HIS "PROGRAMS"? WHAT HAPPENED
KILLER8, what was your point? Nothing those two guys said was wrong. too many people took on too much debt. no one forced them. they are all adults. do not sign the paper, if you don't understand it. I feel for them and thier troubles, but I AM NOT responsible and I should not be expected to help them. They need to live thier own lives and figure it out. Downsize and start over. Hard work and intelligence will get them through. Not some fake program made up by Reid, Obummer and Pelousy
For the "move out and rent crowd" I actually love the idea, Sounds like a lot of you are homeowners and as a renter I would love to see the market continue to plunge. Pretty soon with all the foreclosures the cost of a nice 4 bedroom with pool will likely hit around 20 to 30k. Or more likely we will end up like Detroit.
Seems modification while not the best for the banks, is best for the community at large especially homeowners that are not in trouble.
Think about it. Supply/ Demand. Do you think your value will start to rise when demand is so low and supply is so high?
JSin
"KILLER8, what was your point? Nothing those two guys said was wrong."
PAPAGIL1 -- which "two guys"?
My "point" I think has been well enough explained here and in the other link.
Your "Hard work and intelligence will get them through" comment used to be true, but isn't anymore -- at least not in this America compared to the one I grew up in.
"...we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...[we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for [another]... till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression." -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816
Well, what do you guys have to say to the people that are paying what they owe, lose their job, have to take a lower paying job and banks won't work with them? These people are not deadbeats!!!!! If the banks don't want to pay, then yes, you pick up your marbles and you go home.
greenab,
how long did those people have the job they lost? How many jobs have these people "lost" over the years? How many mtg payments did they save up in case something happened?
Responsible people wouldnt have bought an overpriced home in 2007. We saved up at least 6 months worth of mtg payments in case we "lost" our jobs. Responsible people didnt borrow 120% of the home value. Responsible people were able to re-fi to a 30 year fixed the first sign of market trouble.
Responsible people dont mix up the facts. If you bought the property as a home - then you dont have to worry about the value or equity. Just pay your bill and live there. If you bought the place as an investment - well there are risks and you lost. If the only way you could afford the home was using 5 year arms or alt a and you needed the value to keep going up .... then YOU GAMBLED AND LOST GET OUT
We just attended one this week and Bof A did a no show to the point the mediator even got angry at their lack of respect..they sent a "teller" to the mediation and she didn't have a clue, didnt bring any paperwork that she was required to bring, yet we had ours and they "no-showed"...and no one slaps them !!! Credit Unions, you have the opportunity to take business from the banks - go do it!!!
Does no one seem to get that at 14.5% unemployemnt (that they count) and 29% unemployement that they figure is really on the books, even if you have a job, you have lost work hours a week (for hourly workers) and you took a salary hit (for salary workers)...when this happens, and I don't care if your mortgage is only $1000 a month...you are either NOT working or you lost what income you had and can't pay the bill. SHOW ME WHERE THESE PEOPLE ARE DEADBEATS?? Even people who ARE working are behind..does that make them just as bad?
As for houses and the programs - the banks are taking it both ways..money from thei mortgage, money from OBAMA to modify it, they don't modfy the loan, they keep OBAMA money and then sell the house and all profit is their's. Shouldnt they be required to pay back our tax dollars when they dispose of the property? Ya think??? Instead they are sitting on all our money and aren't doing a thing to work with any of us..and no one slaps them !!
@GeenaB65
YOU ARE SO RIGHT...WE ARE DOING THE SAME THING
hey cwcommish
WE ARE RESPONSIBLE TO ANSWER YOUR POINT...You assume EVERYONE did it wrong..
Well we put 62% money down on our house, with a comfortable mortgage and backup "in case anything happened"..A year later my wife lost her job, I lost my company and took a job for less money just to keep working..At that, we drained everything we had to pay the house, food, etc. When you loose an income or have a reduced pay, no matter what you cut, it still doesn't add up.
DON'T ASSUME EVERYONE IS A DEADBEAT OR DID IT WRONG!!!
Hey, everybody, let's all pick this up with the new thread -- "Focusing on foreclosures" @ http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul...
i didnt use the term deadbeat. But you did do it wrong. Your house was overpriced. You bought at the height of the market. You failed to setup a rainy day fund sufficient enough to cover loss of job. You failed to sell before you had no options left. You are a renter.
greenab,
how long did those people have the job they lost? How many jobs have these people "lost" over the years? How many mtg payments did they save up in case something happened?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
First of all, it's geenab and did you really post that? How do you know how people are going into foreclosure? You have ABSOLUTELY no idea and you sound ignorant. Yeah, people lost their job, then had to use their savings to pay their mortgage and ran out of money. Some had to use their savings to pay for medical expenses. Some had to use their savings to take care of their families. Some had to use their savings to survive...DUUUUUUH!!!