Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
StumbleComplaint filed against Treasure Island over treatment of gambler
Thursday, July 22, 2010 | 11:08 a.m.
Map of Treasure Island Hotel and Casino
Treasure Island Hotel and Casino
3300 S. Las Vegas Boulevard , Las Vegas
CARSON CITY – A complaint has been filed by the state Gaming Control Board accusing the Treasure Island on the Las Vegas Strip of violating regulations in a dispute with a mini baccarat player in November 2009.
The control board is asking the state Gaming Commission to impose a fine on the casino for its “unsuitable method of operation.”
The complaint indicates the player placed a $500 bet but after seeing the cards, he withdrew his money. He was told he couldn't pull his money after the cards were dealt, but he picked up his chips and started to leave.
Casino security stopped him, escorted him to a holding room and searched him. All money and chips were removed from his pockets and a casino shift manager then took five $100 chips away from the customer, according to the complaint.
Treasure Island “then released the patron and trespassed him from its premises,” the complaint said.
The control board alleged the action by the casino was a citizen’s arrest and casino officials never contacted the enforcement division of the board or any other law enforcement agency.
The action by the casino is grounds for disciplinary action and the board is asking that the commission impose a fine. The casino hasn't responded to the complaint.
Discussion: comments so far…
Comments are moderated by Las Vegas Sun editors. Our goal is not to limit the discussion, but rather to elevate it. Comments should be relevant and contain no abusive language. Comments that are off-topic, vulgar, profane or include personal attacks will be removed. Full comments policy. Additionally, we now display comments from trusted commenters by default. Those wishing to become a trusted commenter need to verify their identity or sign in with Facebook Connect to tie their Facebook account to their Las Vegas Sun account. For more on this change, read our story about how it works and why we did it.
Only trusted comments are displayed on this page. Untrusted comments have expired from this story.
No trusted comments have been posted.
Post a comment
Most Popular
- Viewed
- Discussed
- E-mailed
- Superstar Whitney Houston dies at 48
- Two dead after accident in downtown Las Vegas
- Instant Analysis: Debating whether UNLV should continue series with San Diego State
- Police looking for man in white Ford Explorer
- Dining Guide: 2012 Valentine’s Day options in Las Vegas
- Color from the scene at Thomas & Mack Center: We have a wire job! Rebels win, and Louie Armstrong sings!
- Four people injured in car accident
- Blog: Justin Hawkins’ steal seals UNLV’s thrilling 65-63 victory against San Diego State
- After Nevada and Florida wins, Mitt Romney trying to prove he’s ‘severely conservative’ to CPAC base
- UNLV makes key plays down stretch to hold off San Diego State 65-63
Blogs
The Kats Report
Color from scene at Thomas & Mack: We have a wire job! Rebels win, and Louie Armstrong sings!
South Point owner Michael Gaughan's take on 'Vegas Stripped': 'I'll give it an 8' (4 Comments)
Author relishes writing the life story of ‘larger-than-life’ Oscar Goodman (3 Comments)
Elsewhere
Landowner: All roads could lead to Uxbridge casino
Revel reveals smoke-free casino opening
Cirque du Soleil show in Sands China casino to close this month
Meet the woman behind Sheldon Adelson
The Sun
Locally owned and independent for more than 50 years.
What's the problem here? The punk was trying to rip off TI and they took matters into their own hands and simply took the chips. They didn't beat the guy up or anything out of bounds. A fine for what? Cut the crap.
Funny because back in '02 Christmas eve, I was playing the five dollar slots at The Riverside in Laughlin and the following day I returned to the high limit slots area and continued playing the fives when two burly security guards came up behind me and told me to cash out and follow them. I asked what was going on and they simply told me to move it or be cuffed and forcibly removed. I did what they asked and was taken downstairs to a holding cell area, then told to empty the contents of my pockets out on the table. Next some other more executive security type guys came in and told me that the cashier whome I cashed in my tokens (they still had tokens back then) had come up five hundred short the night before, and they believe that she overpaid me, no proof mind you except crappy vhs video which showed nothing out of the ordinary. They informed me that I had better repay the five hundred or be held in the cell for police action. Being the intelligent person I am, I opted to give them the five hundred and then reported the incident to the gaming control board of whom found for the Riverside of course! I returned a year later and won a ten thousand dollar jackpot which I promptly left never to return. The moral of the story here? Stay away from Don Laughlin's Riverside!!
I see nothing wrong with the casino's actions. I thought casinos were allowed to detain anyone they suspected of cheating. If you are going to fine TI for any wrongdoings you also have to prosectute the player for attempting to cheat. The casino might have taken a different route, but it appears they settled the problem using the quickest and most effective means. Everyone knows you cannot take-back a bet if you don't like your cards. This guy should play poker if he wants a free look at the cards before he bets.
If the guy cheated he should be punished.
But for the Casino to detain him and search him without calling law enforcement is heavy handed and against the laws of natural justice.
No doubt the usual suspects on here will claim that Vegas was better when they took cheaters out the back and assaulted them - but I think Vegas needs to be attracting visitors from all over the globe - not just lowlife red-necks.
C'mon guys - the days of the wild west are long gone - don't be scared to join the modern world!
Any complaint involving a $500 bet or larger in Nevada must be reported to the Nevada state gaming board.This is written into the state gaming regulation and Treasure Island pit boss for the time of the incident is directly responsible for not reporting.
In Las Vegas, the "Casino Security" trumps Metro.
No matter what they tell you.
Just another of the quaint quirks of Sin City!
Environ: Why did you repay them if you did nothing wrong - even in the eyes of the Video? SHould have waited for the police and said "Prove it"..They couldn't prove it was you (unless the video shows what she paid you) and you were in the wrong and the whole story hasnt come out
Treasure Island failed to follow the rules .... They are to be the professional in every situation....not the amature like the dude looking at his cards. Rules are in place to protect both the casino operator, sa well as the customer. TI should be fined and they employees written up so they learn to follow proper procedure.
The shift boss essentially committed a robbery of the patron. Security has no right to detain anyone except for the purpose of notifying law enforcement. The casino cannot take matters into its own hands. Several jury verdicts affirm this. Here are links to some of the cases:
http://www.bj21.com/advantageplay/lawand...
Information to try to avoid injury if confronted by casino thugs:
http://www.thebeargrowls.com/?p=73
Congratulations to the Gaming Control Board for doing the right thing in this case. Phil Ruffin's casinos have a history of abusive security tactics, including one resulting in a $130,000 jury award against Frontier a few years ago. A Las Vegas Sun article about that case is featured in the first link above.
Tried that with my rub off lotto tickets,when I found out I didn't have the winning numbers,I asked for a REFUND. DA!! what's the difference here.A bet is a bet....sorry you didn't like the outcome,none of us do.Perhaps...they could have handled it differently...that's all they're quilty of....case closed!!
Anyone care to guess who won't be going back to TI ???
Besides...EVERY SQUARE INCH of the casino,the halls, even the holding room is video taped.God only knows I'm afraid to go to the mens room.The tape will resolve this whole situation.
The security in effect did commit strong arm robbery! Now do I think they were entitled to the money yes if the game dictated that he lost should that been handled better yes it should. That is why the Control board wants the fine imposed, Because the way it was handled will lead to even more strong arming.
If this goes to the same jury as O.J. Simpson he may get more than $500.00 You know we were just stealing back what was stole from us defence.
HeyVegas is exactly correct...any dispute of $500 or more that isnt resolved to the patrons satisfaction..i.e. they would of had to let him keep his chips...the Casino HAS to report the incident to Gaming and TI did'nt. Thats why they ruled against the casino...not the fact that he tried to cheat the game..
Gee, Phil R. Don't you have enough money as it is? You paid cash for
the friggin hotel.
Let this guy and 70% of all others who gamble a pass-free buffets
Boomer111---Duuhhh...so it would be ok to look at the cards, then decide if you want to bet?
Can anyone tell me how long a casino can "detain" a person?
If there is anyone who would like to share their story about being "backroomed" in Las Vegas, submit it to The Great Ruins of Las Vegas Tour on Facebook.
Thomas Shermspun
The Great Ruins of Las Vegas
There is an error in the report:
"The complaint indicates the player placed a $500 bet but after seeing the cards, he withdrew his money."
See Paragraph 16 of the complaint: "Prior to the dealer exposing the cards, the patron decided he did not wish to continue with his wager and removed his wager."
Link to copy of complaint:
http://gaming.nv.gov/documents/pdf/compl...
Arguably, this could still be cheating by the patron, but even cheating does not give the casino the right to take the actions it did.
Although 500 dollars seems like a lot of money, it isn't to a casino -- especially in Vegas. When the man withdrew his bet from the mini-bac table, security should have just taken him out the front door and Treasure Island then should have blackballed him and let other casinos know about him (by name or video). This seems to be a lot simpler solution to the problem than what they chose to do. JMO.
I thought Environ would be all over this supporting the actions of the TI - tell me how this isn't the same technique used by "old Vegas". Apparently TI has been listening to Environ and are bringing back the old Mob mentality for dealing with cheaters. Then they headed down for their free buffet and 99 cent shrimp cocktail.
Big difference between advantage play and commiting a felony. No one can detain a patron for advantage play, but you can read the the trespass act while you are telling them to leave the casino. More than likely the casino surveillance director reported the incident to the gaming control board as this happens with rookie bosses.
Once the cards are out of the shoe the money is in escrow and cannot be removed until the outcome has been decided. The casino can detain the person for a "reasonable" amount of time, but must notify gaming immediately.
The chips in question can be confiscated and put into "escrow" at the casino cage. There is a time limit before a decision has to made by gaming control board as to whom the money belongs to(If I remember 30 days).
Bottom line, again don't confuse committing a crime, and advantage play. Advantage play is legal and has been through the state supreme court. However, this is not advantage play and based on the dollar amount, this is a felony. They might have thought they were being nice by taking the money and letting the patron go, rather than having him prosecuted for a felony, but any incident of $500.00 or more, not resolved with the patron, has to be reported.
The patron will get nothing out of this, unless there are other grounds such as getting physical, keeping him any longer than it would have taken a gaming agent to get there, (typically 30-60 minutes, as anyone can make a private arrest in this scenario. The patron also contributed by committing a felony. The casino is typically fined 10K, if this is not a pattern. Pattern of violations can result in severe fines and suspension of gaming license. Remember Binion and not reporting cash transactions in excess of 10k. Huge fine.
newman2 :
People back in the day were smart enough to know NOT to welch on any bets on the casino floor. You didn't have the lowest common denominator customers on your property that pull crap like we see in this story. He's lucky they didn't throw him in jail as a felon for that move..
He probably SHOULD be in jail as a felon, but now he has as case in that he was improperly detained and his property was stolen. If TI had detained him, called law and gaming enforcement, showed them the video and pushed the case etc. the idiot would be in jail. You gotta follow procedures.
Environ;
He's lucky he didn't end up sucking sand somewhere south of the city
go rebels comment is 110% correct...back in the day what this guy did was "pinch" his bet or pull back when he saw the odds were not in his favor...the reverse scenario is when a patron is dealt a good hand and "caps" or increases the wager...needless to say both of these actions would surely have resulted in a knot or two on the old noggin back in day of Benny but today you can bet your a$$ its a felony and these casinos big or small sweat their money so between casino shift managers security gcb & metro they ain't playin'...and yes if u are involved in a situation and feel the "tape" would vindicate by all means inquire insist even but don't make an a$$ out of yourself if it just ain't so...go-rebels i enjoyed your post...
Man that is Vegas in the 80's style baby thought that mentality was gone.Shake the customer down that's to much maybe security needed a tip.
environ:
were you over paid??? if not it was foolish to give them $500. i'm assuming you were otherwise you wouldnt of returned to that place.
The casinos should be allowed to beat these types up! People take shots everyday and the lack of experienced help on the casino floor allow the cheaters to get away with all kinds of stuff. To prove my point, ask the next blackjack supervisor what the hold % is on the game your playing. They may give you a generic answer or none at all, if they give you a generic answer, ask them how it changes when you make it a 6/5 game. They will not know. Ask them to ask the casino manager, they may not even know. Sad to see when the management doesn't even know what is going on.
What a bozo
He had better run not walk to the nearest Exit.
Everytime I am in the southpoint, I am followed around like am Al Capone. They hate to see you win anything.
The case has been settled. See settlement:
http://gaming.nv.gov/documents/pdf/compl...
I think the fine should have been about $250,000, but it's interesting how quickly Treasure Island settled, and good to see Mr. Ruffin himself have to sign on its behalf. Ruffin cannot later claim he didn't know how his employees behaved.
I wonder if the District Attorney will file robbery charges against the shift manager who stole the $500 from the illegally detained patron. It appears that the circumstances are strikingly similar to the robbery charge against O.J. Simpson that was prosecuted with such vigor. "Trying to recover his own allegedly stolen property," use of force, illegal detention, etc. I see no real distinction between this and the Simpson robbery case.
The good news from this is that the Gaming Control Board took this seriously, even if the specific charges and the settlement were weak, and there apparently will not be any punishment by Gaming for the shift manager.
I think future illegal detentions of legal, brain-using players might finally get some action from the Gaming Control Board in the future, if promptly called to the Board's attention.
$500. They should have said to him... ok, finish the hand... win or lose, and never return. He didn't lose the hand, and they didn't win the bet. He DID deserve what he got, but for the short money, the casino would have could have shoule have looked better... Why bring yourself down to this guy's level.
This whole project is mind boggling wrong. Harry Reid will bring jobs to CA! So I guess OK. Let';s hope they go bankrupt before they open and just blow a few billion of tax payer money.. The slow speed party train from LAX to LAS has promise.
Security at TI are intimidating. I think the police should be involved and they shouldn't be able to strong arm anyone. All they have is their side of the story. There are always two sides to every story and the person in question needs to be able to tell theirs in a safe and fair manner. It is important to be professional and remember the players are guests and should be treated as such, and not like criminals unless they can prove otherwise.
What was the result of the coup in question? I am sure the coup wasn't voided and a result would have been declared. I hope the Nevada authority investigates that aspect and if the patron had won, he is owed $1,000 (less commission where applicable).
For whoever asked ,, security can only detain and hold you for criminal behavior till proper authority arrives... They cannot detain you or for this matter make you empty your pockets... If you screwed up,, just pay up and be on your way... They have no right to search you or obtain any property on you unless you do as enviro does and lets them take it... they would have a giant lawsuit against them if they did not know otherwise.. I sued a local casino for keeping my car keys after they assumed I was drunk and they found out the hard way that they cannot hold any of your property....
About 6 months ago I was playing BJ at the TI and was involved in a minor dispute over a payout. I was treated like a criminal by the pit boss I dealt with. He acted like I was some grifter trying to hustle the joint.
I guess the old billionaire with the hot Russian wife that owns the place thinks he's Benny Binion or something. The PB's over at the TI need to lighten up.
Check out my LV blog. You will enjoy it!
http://jimmyhoofa-lv.blogspot.com/
This would have been handled a lot different 30 years ago. The guy would have lucky to leave with all his fingers.
environ...
well, if they overpaid you, they could also tell you in a more friendly manner. it wasn't your fault not to "realize" the error instantly. ok, positive errors in your favor are seldom mentioned instantly, of course. if there would have been 500 missing in your pockets, you probably would have cried like a baby till they paid you. that's for sure.
if this happens over here, we also check the tapes and if it turns out that a customer got paid too much, may this be either at the roulette table or perhaps at the cage, this event will be kept on records till the next day the customer returns. then, the casino shiftmanager will talk to the customer and aks him to pay back the funds. if it turns out that the casino owns the money, it is also the casino's duty to pay the customer, even if the customer returns weeks after.... this is what we also call "proper customer service" the casino doesn't want no money that it did not win, and the contrary holds true for the customers. That's common sense.
From all the casinos that there are in Laughlin, the Riverside is probably the only good resort worth visiting. Ok, the slots are tight like hell, if you like to play slots, then Harrah's is probably the right place to go. Aquarius has full pay videopoker. River Palms and Tropicana Express are the worst. And the Colorado Belle is a Circus. The Riverside at least has a cool western style poker room and a 1-2 game going on at nights. Which was the best place for me to go gambling.
I decided to avoid Laughlin in general in future. It's just not worth the drive anymore. To regular paying guests, the rooms are no longer inexpensive and only if you get fully comped it's ok. But for this to happen you must give them action. I just couldn't find enough playable machines that would justify my giving them loads of action. The Colorado Belle and the Edgewater has Optimum Play videopoker, but they give hardly no comp point for even long playing sessions. IN other words, I will have to pay for my room , and it's just not worth. I will stay in Vegas instead.
Greetings from Switzerland
Stupid guy but funny also. I can imagine playing alongside him, seeing him place the bet, then seeing him take away the bet after the cards were dealt, I mean who does that? hahahah soo funny!
i once had this dealer in paigow who just keeps paying me even if I was losing. I think she just likes me or she was just confused about it all. Whew! lucky I didnt get caught or i would have been in the news.
It may have been a misunderstanding as to "once the card leaves the shoe" versus "once the card is exposed to view". I don't know. It seems the player felt he was in the right and was walking away rather than fleeing. I'd like to see retraining for all personnel involved. Laid off employees and budget cuts may have made inroads into casino operations that are best addressed by retraining rather than by harsh fines. Not all dealers are native speakers of English and the entire event may have been the dealer's fault.
Well So if I place a 10 dollar bet on the Black Jack table and I do not like my cards I can decide i dont want to play and pull the bet back Come on!
The casino can not detain me to collect there winnings or at least detain me until the cards are played out for the end result.Wow counting cards was a way to get over on the casinos if you know how now you dont have to you can grab your money and leave What a joke!So I guess all the cheats that are in what they call the Gambling Black book can now be removed and do what they want LOL