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Dealers say supervisors getting share of tips creates conflict of interest
Argument in continuing crusade against Wynn policy hinges on potential to taint supervisors
Despite last week’s ruling that Steve Wynn’s tip-pooling policy doesn’t violate state law, dealers insist it’s bad for the industry.
Sunday, July 18, 2010 | 2 a.m.
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Sun archives
- Official: Casinos can split dealers’ tips with supervisors (7-12-2010)
- Caesars Palace mulling change on dealer tips (6-14-2010)
- Casino dealers stymied in reaching labor agreement (2-13-2010)
- Caesars Palace plays hardball with dealers, asserts right to tips (1-18-2010)
- Caesars Palace dealers protest on Strip (9-17-2009)
- For Wynn dealers, deal slow to come (6-24-2008)
- Dealers sour on Caesars (11-19-2007)
- Under the radar, Caesars dealers push for union (10-11-2007)
Steve Wynn
In the fight to reverse Steve Wynn’s policy of sharing casino dealers’ tips with their immediate supervisors, one argument seemed to hold the most promise.
The attorney representing dealers, Jay Litman, didn’t spend too much time parsing Nevada labor law concerning tips, which for decades has been interpreted by state courts in favor of employers. Instead, he focused on the longstanding industry policy that prevents supervisors from receiving tips to avoid potential conflicts of interest.
Supervisors who receive tips from players could compromise the integrity of the games they oversee, potentially bending the rules for a player’s benefit, Litman argued last year before the Nevada Labor Commissioner. It’s not only a bad policy for Wynn, he said; it’s bad for the casino industry, which depends on the public’s confidence.
To bolster his point, Litman presented testimony from a former Wynn Las Vegas dealer who said he witnessed that very problem in his former job as a dealer on cruise ship.
The dealer said he saw a colleague fail to pick up a losing craps bet from the table, instead letting it ride until the bet, placed by the gambler for the dealer, won. The supervisor overseeing the game let it happen as he was receiving a share of the tip pool, thus personally benefiting from the winning bet, the dealer said.
Indeed, theft and fraud are major concerns in Nevada casinos and beyond, which is why many casinos prohibit dealers’ immediate supervisors from accepting gifts worth more than $100.
And yet, this argument failed before the labor commissioner, who ruled last week that the tip-pooling policy at Wynn Las Vegas and Encore is legal. (Dealers said they will appeal to state court.)
The argument didn’t fail on its merits, however. It was simply ignored — as the labor commissioner doesn’t enforce rules governing how table games or casinos are operated.
The appropriate arbiter of gambling integrity, the Gaming Control Board, hasn’t found reason to oppose the tipping policy, either.
Notified in writing last year about conflict-of-interest concerns at Wynn, regulators alerted their auditing staff to potential fraud or theft related to the tip procedure, Control Board Chairman Dennis Neilander says.
The Control Board’s Audit Department says it conducts in-depth checks of gambling control procedures at individual casinos at least once every 2 1/2 years, including how table games are supervised and whether certain game functions such as refilling chips and issuing credit to gamblers are handled correctly. Limited audits occur more frequently, Neilander says.
The Control Board audits found no evidence to support the dealers’ claim, and major casinos generally adopt procedural controls that are over and above the minimum standards required, Neilander says.
“If there were concerns, we would have heard about them,” he adds.
Wynn executives testified to ample controls, including increasingly sophisticated surveillance mechanisms, to protect against any funny business. Other employees besides immediate supervisors are watching the games, they said.
In any case, Neilander argues the board is not the appropriate venue for the dispute, as there is no specific gaming law or regulation that prevents supervisors from receiving tips.
Both groups are failing to address the legitimacy of these real and reasonable concerns, dealers say.
But at least one expert without a dog in the fight disagrees. Jeff Voyles, a casino management professor at UNLV who was a casino dealer and a floor supervisor, says there’s no reason for alarm.
A supervisor included in the tip pool isn’t receiving a direct enough benefit to risk his job by defrauding the casino — especially since any single tip is pooled and split among several hundred workers, Voyles says.
That’s different from the potential for fraud or favoritism if a supervisor receives a direct tip, or bribe, from a player or an employee.
Employee theft and fraud have always been concerns in Nevada casinos. They are constantly on the lookout for players who may be in league with employees to steal from the casino, Voyles adds.
Voyles didn’t like the way Wynn dropped the policy on dealers after they had been working there — and not pooling tips — for more than a year. But Voyles agrees with the stated premise behind the policy, which is to remake floor supervisors — now called “casino service team leads” at Wynn and Encore — into approachable customer service reps.
Rather than happily chatting up customers in the hope that they will return, Las Vegas is rife with grumpy or off-putting suits caught up in the banal technicalities of their jobs, Voyles says.
“I would completely retrain that position so that most of the job would be customer-service oriented rather than game protection,” he says.
Surveillance departments — the “eye in the sky” — should take on most of the burden for catching cheats, as many floor people know the basics of watching for mistakes but lack formal training in the subtle ways of thieves, Voyles argues.
If the floor people are doing their jobs as expected by making the customer feel welcome and pampered, he adds, then they should rightfully receive a portion of the tips players lay on the table, much like the waitress who tips out the busboy and the bartender on her shift.
Litman, who will likely be pressing his point in state court, says that’s a feeble explanation given that Nevada laws call for a strict separation of duties between dealers and supervisors to avoid collusion. It’s only a theory that service would improve because of supervisors receiving a share of tips. The tip might have more to do with prompt cocktail service from a waitress than anything a supervisor did at the game. Nor would Wynn executives explain how a supervisors-only tip pool would not be a superior way to accomplish such customer service goals, Litman notes.
Whether Wynn is delivering on his promise of better service for table games players is up for dispute, especially among unhappy dealers receiving lighter paychecks.
And yet, he has jumped the biggest hurdle of all by avoiding regulatory criticism for a policy that has turned a casino custom on its head.
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Steve Wynn did not want to raise the pay of his floor supervisors, so he used the dealers tips to supplement their income. Nevada State Law clearly states it is illegal for employers to take tips(NRS 608.160). The Nevada Labor Commissioner, Michael Upchuk, ruled with favoritism, and his decision reads as if it were written by Steve Wynn himself. Soon, every tipped employee in Nevada will be sharing their tips to pay supervisors and managers, from bartenders to waiters. This decision will impact Nevada, because so many middle class families depend on tipping and the service industry as a primary source of income. The Nevada Labor Commissioner and the Attorney General have let the people down....What else is new in Nevada ???
There are different rules and regulations regarding tipping of personnel in every country. To people from other countries, it seems very unusual to us that tipping is the main source of income for so many people in the U.S. I get the feeling as if the companies are so poor or....rather (greedy????) that they opt not to pay its employees and rather have the customers pay for them. This is a major problem that makes the employees basically depending on tips from the players (speaking solely about the gaming industry).
I would not think that sharing tips with direct superiors could leat to conclusion with players who then, in return, start tipping generously when some losing bets will not be collected or , even better , bigger payouts than usual will be done. Not to forget, there are supervisors behind the video cameras and also other players on the floor , and they usually act as "policemen" at the tables when payouts are done. Just imagine a losing craps player who is not tipping notices that a winning player is being paid more and this players` bets are not collected from time to time. How long would you think this can be done until the gaming control board will check on the matter? a casino is aware that losing a casino license because of such silly thefts and frauds would have fatal consequences.
I see the problem rather in the fact that dealers do not get a decent pay in Las Vegas anyway and from what I have seen , tips are getting rare, anyways (not mentioning the ultra top casinos on the Strip). If a poor Plaza dealer also must forfeit 30 per cent or how much ever of his little tip total to his supervisor, I am not sure if there``ll be enough money left for a living...
Instead of cutting the dealer tips, the casinos should be forced to pay a higher minimum wage to the dealers and lower managers. I think, 8-10 dollars per hour, plus benefits, still ok for a casino to pay, and at least a little extra for the dealers.
from switzerland
I think it's horrible for dealers to share there tips with their supervisors. The supervisor on any job in America is paid a salary. What's next a Furniture salesperson splitting their commissions with a manager or car salesperson. Steve Wynnberg is nasty self serving individual. Who wouldn't know what it's like to be a working person. He should get his hands out of his employees pocket and pony up some of those big buck he's making. Wynnberg isn't afraid to charge his customers for every little thing he sells them.
Way to go Steve American thinker, this is the best way in these times to use your money.
Anyways dealer make good money. Best at the Wynn. So let them fight you still pay the best .
If Steve Wynn Believes forcing dealers to share there tips is the right thing to do. Then he ought to be forced to share his home with the homeless!
If your playing "Black Jack" and you win and you are leaving the table now... you give the dealer a tip...right...if you wanted to give the supervisor a tip you would... but you tip the dealer because you believe the dealer helped you to win.....period...the customer is the one who is being defrauded here....if I tip the maid in my room I dont want her to give the money to anyone....do you see what I mean...I am the most important person in the hotel..."the customer is always right"..... not Steve Wynn....I am his bread and butter.... I say who gets my tips ...not Steve Wynn.....
Poker dealers are making great money if you compare with their co-worker buddies in the regular pit. If you imagine that a poker dealer nowadays has to push the button, just to retrieve the shuffled deck off the shuffle-machine, then dealing the cards and control the hand, check the bets and push the pot to the dealer, this is rewarding him with a buck or two, usuually. Some players tip, regardless of the size of the pot. Some players even tip off a 10 dollar pot or less. Lucky dealers, I can only add. The players doing so obviously love to play much more than love to win, as winning is no longer possible if you tip off a 10 dollar pot, after the pot has already been taxed 10 per cent plus 10 per cent for jackpot. But that's a different story.
I noticed that years ago the poker dealers used to "tip", or shall I rather say..."juice" their floorman at the Boulder Station poker room. I asked a dealer why he's tipping the floorman as I was just curious if the guy in the suit doesn't get enough pay....
The response was shocking in one way, and surprising on the other side. I was told that this is one way "to make sure that I am on next weeks shift schedule again". And the other "reason" was to keep up a great team-work and work atmosphere, as the dealer I asked told me that the floormen do not really get a great paycheck and if no dealer would tip his floorman then the floorman would receive a much smaller paycheck than the dealer, which in my opinion, is also unfair.
What I just don't get is this: What if you have bills to pay and the head barely above water, meaning, what if you are so tight with money that every additional expense taken off your tip means a cut in your lifestyle? And what if you therefore can't "juice" your flooman anymore? Will you then not be considered to get to work in the following week for....let's say....other reasons than that? (because this of course would be discriminating and subject of sueing).
Officially, no Orleans or Boulder Station poker floorman will ever admit that, but reality is that the dealers (have to) take care of them in order to secure their job. I don't think it's fair, but it's the way it goes. Probably the same in the restaurants where waiters and waitresses make sure that the "cook" is happy, too...., or the cocktail waitresses that make sure that he barman is also "happy" because he's got to help her every 10 minutes preparing the huge loads of beverages for the players, and only the cocktail waitress is receiving the big tips (would it seem to me, but it's not true).
Well, we see that each and everybody is helping each other, legally, or not, or officially or not. I can only tell you that over here, in my country, nobody must "juice" any superior to make sure he/she will be on the work sheet of the following week. So much about different systems in different countries.
From Switzerlandn
I have a few friends that are Floor Supervisors...oops, I mean "Team Leaders" at Wynn/Encore and they say that they look the other way all the time when dealers make mistakes to guys that are toking them. It's commone sense that people are going to do that if they have a vested interest.. Duh.. Ca mon Steve, get your act together.. If you think your Floor Supervisors are worth 90K a year, then pay them 90K a year.. Dont rob Peter to pay Paul.
The casinos have lined the pockets of the labor boards and the have paid to get the supreme court judges elected in this state. Do you really think the dealers working for the pathetic Steve Wynn will get this overturned?
Most of my experience in working in the field as a dealer is that the supervisors are a bunch of do nothing nobody's and don't even deserve what they make for salary. When a problem arises on a game they are no where to be found. Nor do they back up their dealers. They should be happy they are getting a good day rate from Steve Wynn and leave the tips to the people on the front lines who actually interact with the players.
wynngone you need to reread the law becuse it says the house can not take and use them as their companies profit.It's profitting the supers not the hotel.You guys are fighting loosing battle,I'm sure it will be coming our way also.
It is only a hop, skip, and a jump from Mr Wynn scooping ALL tips. Cocktail waitresses, and waiters, bartenders etc. Mr Wynn is just greedy. He figures that it's his building and the employees are his galley slaves. He is a chiseler of the first water. A trait he learned as a boy at the knee of his chiseling parents or parent as it were. His father used to run bingo parlors on the East Coast. Yessir, Steve is an old pro at tilting the game in his favor. He influences Senators and judges with free comps in his hotels and casinoes. He uses meals, rooms, and playing money. Not to mention show tickets and professional women.
Steve Wynn will have his employees working for minimum wage and thats it. The only way to describe chiselers like Steve is that he has dubious methods and a pirates heart. People in power have been kissing Steve's pants for 50 years. He speaks with forked tongue.
I once worked in a restuarant where waiters and waitresses had to share their tips with the cooks. You knew that going in and if you didn't like it you left.
Simple,stay away from Wynn's
Steve should have to share the profits of his casinos with all employees. It is the right thing to do.
.
Well iam a retired dice dealer.I would love to go crew for crew with the floorman,boxman,pitboss,shiftboss in.If you dont think they will looking the other way you are no crazy.I work for years going crew for crew and everyone was in.They never said anything about a over payment why would they take money away that was for there part.Wish i could work at wynn;s crew for crew now.
I say, these greedy dealers and their union should pool all their money, buy a casino, and then set their own rules. But until then, go with the court's decicion or leave for another casino that agrees with their demands. This should make everyone happy.
Steve Wynn your "legacy" is not the Wynn casino not the Bellagio or the Mirage you will now go down in history as "The Grinch Who Stold the Tips".....................................
Does anyone care what the customer thinks? When I tip it's for services rendered and the tip is to go to the person who rendered me the service. It is up to him/her to decide whether to share it. It is not up to Steve Wynn to decide how to divvy up the money his patrons give to his dealers. It's not his money.
If we give them our tips doesn't that mean they work for us????
What next...
Do we need to pay their co-pays too?
Give them birthday gifts?
Babysit their kids?
I say no to sharing tips with Supervisors
The argument of conflict of interest will not hold up in a court of law. If the dealerss and the attorneys are using this as their case of appeal, the dealer are sure to have a quick exit from a judge.
The casino industry of today has many checks and balances regarding accountability of Floor Supervisors and Dealers. Any theft, or actions of theft, by a casino employee triggers a variety of red flag alerts. Casino employee thefts are short gains. Conflict of interest claim will not hold up, not even close. The powers of a Casino Floor Supervisor has been cut to a minimum, Surveillance and Accounting now pick-up much of the monitoring.
The dealers are wasting their time and money with this appeal. Unionizing casinos working has never been a good move. The results we see clearly shows us this is true.
what value does the supervisor bring to the game on behalf of the player? Does HE deal? Does he assist in you learning the game? Does he....??? No -- the players interaction is direct with the dealer..Hell, the supervisor won't even talk to you, unless you create a liability for the company. Why should he earn?
I love the way Wynn assails Obamanomics while practicing them himself. Redistributionism on display. No other name for it.
A megalomaniac AND a complete hypocrite. What a guy.
It is true about the way tipping benefits some in a bad way... This might not be along the lines of what is being said but I worked for a local tow company years back..Some drivers would compensate the dispatcher and get all the good calls while those that did not,, were left with the leftover junk.. So tipping or compensating those who dont deserve it is not a good thing when it comes to being fair.... just saying
Well, looking at the number of people who have expressed an interest in this story versus the number of people who expressed interest in the story about teacher licensing gives you an idea of one of the problems with Nevada education - lack of community interest. And how do you get many kids to care when they can make so much money at these jobs?
Will the supervisors share there bonus with the dealers!
Man am I glad I work for Uncle. Think I will call in Monday.
Good luck expecting a pit boss helping player to win..the dealers and pit bosses are all there for the same reason...to rob the players...which is why I would not wager 1 cent in a pit game...
Look, folks,
1st) Please use the spell checker before posting your comments, because it really hurts my eyes to read all the enraged comments with lots of orthographic mistakes.
2nd) If you behave like a bunch of school kids, you will be treated like school kids. All I read is money, money, money, ...nowadays for a simple card-hander you should all be lucky to be employed, because most of that card-dealers are not worth their income, not even without the tips. Sorry to say that. Every bus driver has a more responsible job being responsible for other people's lifes when driving his bus.
3rd) What the hell do you think a casino is... a playground for card-dealers or what? It is a company to make money for the company including the company's management, this is no welfare team. If you really think you cannot earn enough, please try the bus driver's job in an old wrotten school bus without air condition eight hours a day for at least two weeks. Then you come back and restart complaining.
TIA.
Regards
Banana_Joe
They count to 21 for a living and they think the should be paid big bucks,Get real you are worse than the fire dept at least they have to have a GED. Think whom elese would hire you and to do what??/ count to 21 and smile
People tip on service. If the supervisor did not provide any service to a customer, they should not get any percentage of the tip the customer gives to the dealer or employee who did provide service. If I wanted a supervisor to get a tip for some reason, I would personally hand him some money. I have never had a reason to do this.
As one person posting mentioned it should be up to the person who makes the tip as to where it should go. There are supervisors watching dealers and supervisors watching supervisors. In the case of gaming irregularities all persons caught should be heavily fined from supervisor to dealer to player. This should included names and pictures in the media of people convicted. The old 2 point customer rule should apply 1/ customer is always right 2/ When the customer is wrong refer to step 1
The reality of the situation at Wynn is that the dealers were making too much money. I realize that dealing is a profession that requires skill, but that skill should not cost more than $90k a year. Their pay had to be limited so it did not interfere with their direct supervisors pay and to give an incentive for dealers to step-up and want to be floor personnel. No where elese in america can you count to 21 and make $90K.
If you don't want to share you can always go down the street and get a job at a lesser property. Maybe it would be best to focus on giving great service so you earn greater tips? The negativity generates negative tips. It's just science...
How about if the casinos eliminated tipping at the tables altogether? Pay the dealers a decent salary with yearly raises instead. The customer would have more money to play (lose) and the casino would have a higher daily drop. when you consider that dealers at some casinos make $250 + per day and multiply that times the number of dealers working each day it would benefit the casinos to add that money its daily drop. You would see better customer service because the dealer wouldn't be rude to players that don't tip while winning (some players tip only when they leave the table). Of course this would only work if the casinos paid a decent salary, if the dealers make $56 per day in pay and $110 in tips on an average day, pay an entry level salary of $130 per day and give automatic yearly raises. You would still have no trouble getting applicants for the job and probably have better customer service. It's time to get out of the dark ages and bring the dealers job into the 21st century. The dealer of today is just somebody that slides cards around the table, spins the ball or moves the dice, they're not required to have the same skills as dealers of days gone by when game protection was a must. Todays sophisticated surveillance methods takes that out of the dealers range of responsibilities. I spent over 30 years as a dealer, floorman and shift manager and can look at this issue from all sides. Personally, I think Wynn (or any casino) is wrong to get involved with the dealers tips. Once a customer gives it to any employee IT'S NOT HIS MONEY!
It's always been in the casino's interest that the customer pays the staff. The more money the players tip, the better. in the end, the customer is to lose his money, but he should only lose in the degree that it's sufficient to pay the workforce before the rest goes into the cash register of the casino. that's basically the plan.
Just like in the restaurants, bars,and wherever people want something from somebody against cash settlements, it seems that America has the golden rule of tipping in between paying and final delivery of that service.
If you think it through, you will come to the conclusion that the elite of businessmen has worked out a very smart way of maximizing profits of a company by minimizing payrolls legally. Greed goes first before ethics kick in.
They build casinos with billions of dollars and basically pay peanut paychecks to the people they work in these billion dollar castles. They look nice (dealer uniforms) but behind the masks there's only this never-ending question: "HOW MUCH WILL WE GET IN TIPS TODAY?".
In the U.K, they finally changed the law so the customers (itiots) in the casino will now pay the wages by tipping the dealers. It's not been like that till a few years ago when tipping was illegal , just because of the reasons mentioned. Why should the casino make billions of dollars and still don't pay its staff a decent paycheck? What's the idea behind it all?
As a consequence, and that's obvious, players will play less black jack in order to avoid embarrassing moments at the tables and instead will play slot machines. But that's exactly what the casinos want. They can make even more money if the players lose their money without first having to tip a certain percentage. That's the mysery.
From Switzerland
or....... players will simply walk away and play less. Which is actually what's happening these days.
Simple answer here is to just quit tipping at the Wynn. For anything!
******PLEASE READ**** This situation is sickening.
1. If Steve Wynn wanted to change the tip pooling policy he should have done it when he opened the hotel, not 8 months later. This way the dealers who left good paying jobs at Bellagio or Caesars thinking they were going to make more money like they were told, could have made a decision if they wanted to work there or not.
2. One other thing that is not being discussed is the toke committee or lack of. There is no toke committee with dealers on it to count the tips in front of security. The dealers have even asked to review the tapes and have been denied. Is someone trying to hide something??
3. NOBODY will fight Steve Wynn, not even the politicians.
4. I read the court documents and because the dealers are "at-will" employees, Steve Wynn or any other casino for that matter can do whatever they want as long as they give ample notice. He could decide to take a larger percentage and, oh well.
5. All the dealers at other properties who were breathing a sigh of relief that they don't work at the Wynn should be very nervous now because your employer can and will (Caesar's) do the same thing to you.
They say referrals are the best business. Not that Steve Wynn cares but I have told everyone that I know both locally and out of state to stay away from his properties.
I guess one positive thing has come out of this: Since Steve Wynn gave the supervisors a raise out of the dealers pocket instead of his own, he was able to purchase a mega-yacht that is 183 feet long. Out of the 100 largest yachts in America it is ranked #41. Most mega-yachts sell for over $100 million. Wow, times are tough Steve....enjoy. Conversely, one of the dealers that took a $900-$1000 per month cut in pay, just lost his house.....in case you were wondering. Any room on the yacht for him and his 4 kids??? Oh, and by the way, he left the Treasure Island to work for you because he thought you were a good guy.
why not organize a public demonstration by the table players on the sly. don't go in the wynn or encore. seems to be to simple a dilema
I opened Wynn in 2005. We were all told we would work long hours and 6 days a week the first year. Floor knew what they were getting into. They also knew dealers would make more than them. They are all burned out dealers who want to get paid to stand at the podium for 8 hrs and do next to nothing. dealers do 99% of the work and customer service. If the floor drop so much in tips (like they testified at the hearings) they should have their own toke boxes. All of the dealers feel bad they have to share their hard earned tips with us. We know they interact so much with the customer??? We can solve this whole problem by letting them keep their own tips they drop in their own special boxes. Every dealer would agree with that. So should the floor, unless they know the truth. They never drop a dime compared to the dealers. As for everyone else who comments about us being greedy. Imagine you boss cutting your pay or commission by 40% a day?? Walk a mile in our shoes. BTY Wynn 10k filing has Wynn holding 1.78 BILLION in cash and the smallest amount of long term debt of any Nevada casino. I can see why he is out to screw the dealers out of their 50k a year. Steve is a self proclaimed Buddist?? Tancheck was paid off. It is so obvious a 5th grader can figure it out. Let not forget the schedule office gets tokes too. They never see a customer. Go Figure
I won't spend a penny in Wynn's casinos because of this policy. Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention!
Hey dealers is ya dont like it why don't ya leave. LOL. That won't happen. Your nothing but babies whining and crying. Poor babies. I'm sure there are plenty of dealers downtown and at mid break in houses ready to take your job and do it with a true smile and no resent to the floor. Yeah you just go on and keep appealing all the way to the justice league of superhereos. And I will keep on smiling as you keep on losing. Good for you Steve Wynn.
Scru u dophinron, you ignorant bass turd!
If Steve Wynn does not get his way he will simply shut down his Las Vegas properties and move to Macau where he already has properties that earn more money.
"Supervisors who receive tips from players could compromise the integrity of the games they oversee, potentially bending the rules for a player's benefit, Litman argued"
Using that logic, seems that the casino should ban tipping dealers as well. Dealers are the ones who give you chips and cards. They are the ones who can compromise the game. Rather a weak argument.
your money is my money!
and my money is my money!
and my casino is your casino :)
The sad thing is that Steve Wynn has the power to control and get what he wants.All the dealers have to do is quit and find employment else where once the economy returns to normal.Also the dealers need to draw national attention to this issue and hopefully it will draw negative attention towards the Wynn and Encore with its patrons.This could eventually effect anyone who works for the majority of their income through tips.Or all the dealers in this time organize and unionize themselves but it would take every dealer in this town to get this accomplished
Wynn stinks anyway to Asian themed and drab looking
Love the South Point it is nice clean and all the employees seem to be happy there.Plus it has a since of old school Vegas with a modern touch.Good odds always busy plenty of activity for kids and it just seems real when you are there.Try it out great rates on rooms and you can still be on the strip in 5 to 10 minutes if you want.
So they are taking the tip money behind closed doors and counting it? Sounds like old mob style of doing business. How do we know that the casino is not taking the money also? Sounds like the best policy is to not tip at Wynn.
steve wynn is too cheap. The dealers are the main reason he has anyone stay there, he should admit he was wrong and stop the whole mess. Or are there others getting paid with the tips that the dealers don't know about? After all they don't even count the tips....
Just curious why this is such a big deal, when for years you have been pooling tips with terrible dealers with zero personalities that generate little or no income?
I guarantee you, lousy dealers cost you far more in lost revenue then sharing tips with management ever will.
Here's the deal. Until this BS gets sorted out no one should play cards in casinos who are adopting this Wynn travesty. Secondly No card players should tip dealers at the time of the game, just work out another way to tip them which will be away from the eyes of their managers. Thirdly, all customers should be very verbal to management about how displeased they are with this rule, and just say "Sorry I will not tip under these circumstances"
Did any of you who are complaining about the new policy bother to read the reasoning behind the decision? It is not to punish dealers, it is not to line Steve's pockets (tips are shared with supervisors, not Steve Wynn), it is to improve guest service and spending at the casinos. Wynn's casinos are already known for providing top-notch service and this is a new way that they can continue to raise the bar. They are taking those floor people who rarely interact with customers and turning them into additional front-line customer service reps. In this new role, they will have much more influence over the customer. Dealers are tipped for their interaction with the customer once they are playing, but dealers are too busy working their games to try to attract more customers over. Supervisors have the freedom to walk around the casino, interact with customers, and bring them to the game. In an ideal world, supervisors would be tipped separately by customers who ended up having a good time/winning after playing at their recommendation. This is not likely to happen, however, as the floor person may not be around any more as they have likely ventured off to find more players. The player has his money out in front of the dealer, so the dealer will be the natural recipient of any gratuity, even though it may be the floor person who created the opportunity for any gratuity at all. In the end, the overall amount of tips received should go up, along with the amount taken in by the casino. In the short term, dealers may see a cut in the tips they get to keep, but they were never promised that that was not a possibility. Some of you have a ridiculous entitlement mentality considering that this is a position that requires minimal training and skill and has a long waiting list of applicants ready to take your spot. Steve Wynn is not stealing your tips, he is providing an incentive to his floor people to bring you more players and increase the amount you both make.
I love this piece from the story:
"Rather than happily chatting up customers in the hope that they will return, Las Vegas is rife with grumpy or off-putting suits caught up in the banal technicalities of their jobs," Voyles says.
Perfect description of the South Point (aka Sweat Point) pit bosses. There's also some real grumps over at the Mirage and TI. Is part of the job description of a LV pit boss to have sour look on their face and bad attitude?
Check out my LV blog:
http://jimmyhoofa-lv.blogspot.com/
To the previous idiot (thepalms999). Have you ever worked 8 hours at the Wynn. Floor barely talk to any customers and get upset if they have a rating card. If there is a problem with a player, they are hiding at the other end of the pit. They dont want to risk losing the best paying job they ever had. Let the dealer handle it. They pay no attention to anything except the toke book, which they usally complain when the tokes are about 115 bucks cause they only get 48 bucks on top of their hard earned 225 salary. Let's be honest, everyone in the business knows if he tried to do this from day 1, he would have a house full of break in dealers who couldn't handle the action we had the first 2 years. Now it's a miserable grind joint with 10 dollar games. Local fleas everywhere. The end of Vegas as we know it is close at hand. All you floor get ready for 50 to 75 a day plus a full share. Have fun having to watch dealers make mistakes that will cost you your job because all the capable dealers who you don't have to watch will be long gone
jldour and the palms999 make the most sense of anybody on this topic. The argument that payouts or mistakes will be overlooked are ludicrous. So what they are saying is that dealers who receive tips from players, overpay or forget to pick up their bet in hopes of receiving more tips!! The judge will laugh at that one. Watch your game dealers and GET A ROLL!!!
denver21
it is quite obvious you are not a dealer in Vegas. Why would anyone risk getting fired to give somone an extra payout for a possible tip that has to be shared with 400 other people. The guy would have to tip you 800 dollars so you would profit 2 bucks before taxes. Let the floor keep their own tips and dealers keep thier own also. Everyone gets 7.25 an hour. That would save steve wynn tons of payroll.
Bauer3, that is exactly my point! The article says the lawyer for the dealers is making an argument that sharing tips with supervisors jeopardizes the integrity of the game. Don't the Dealers stand over thousands of dollars in their rack? So if they get a tip from a player they are going to overpay or not pick up a losing bet when the Super is not looking in hopes of getting more tips? Both the Super and the Dealer are not going to do this for a couple dollars you are exactly right. So what is this argument going to prove? And, most casino's these days have a club card that gives them points based upon their play that they can use towards a meal or rooms. Casino Hosts are the ones determining if someone gets comped or not. So writing comps for more tips or giving a favorable ruling is basically obsolete. Surveillance does spot checks to make sure players are not overrated for play. So how is this argument going to win? There would have to be thousand's and thousand's of dollars being added to someones play or dealers overpaying someone over and over again thus drawing attention to other players or Surveillance. Pretty risky for losing a 90K job and have grand theft on your record.
This tip sharing thing will stand in any court. Better bring the KY and Vaseline to work dealers and bend over and take it like a MAN!!
You share your tips with other working stiff dealers that don't contribute so whats the difference? Suits may help you make more money with better customer service knowing they will turn into tippers, look at the glass half full and not half empty and things will work out for the best!!
Weinberg is Wrong--if you want to pay your management more money--then pay them--you should never STEAL someone elses money Weinberg! All workers should boycott all his properties, shows, restaurants. Anyone coming to town--please stay somewhere else--this guy is a scumbag who steals from his employees tips!
spoken like a true floorperson....nice touch with the ky comment..showing your true colors. There is LESS cutomer service than before all this started.. Do you even work there?? I doubt it.
All Wynn is doing is giving the pit crew a raise and using the dealers tip money to pay them. This is not rocket science.
Splitting tips with supervisory personnel is alot like Metro investigating their own shootings. Of course it is a conflict of interest.
Gives accountants something to do, declaring tips.
@Boris:
'and my casino is your casino...'
Hey, dude, since when have you been being a casino owner... and what's its name right now?
("Boris' Motel 66", or what... :)
Regards
Banana_Joe
Hey, Boris, you got to be kidding...
Hey Boris, if you are a casino owner, then I am a bus driver. Let me take you up on that.
Look, meet me at the spa tomorrow at 10 o'clock in the morning to talk things over. I want in.
(Unbelievable... Boris claims to be casino owner... what kind of casino will that be?)
Regards
Banana_Joe
i would ask the question of how many full time supervisors has wynn hired or promoted since this policy went into effect? excluding encore... how many full time suits were added to the payroll? how many dual rate's want promotions but haven't gotten them?
isn't that the overall argument? wynn couldn't get full time suits so this was necessary. how many have been hired or promoted since then?
Banana_Joe, you did not get the joke, unfortunately. Somebody previously said..... My Money is my money, and your money is my money. And then I came with this " my casino is your casino". I thought somebody would hear the bell ring. It was stolen from a famous gambling movie..... Owning Mahony :)
I can't be at "the spa" at 10 a.m. tomorrow as I will only be back in Vegas by October. Does this make sense to you?
Greetings from Switzerland
Hey, Boris, I can hear some bells ring... ding, ding, ding, ding, ...LOL...ring-a-ding-ding :)
Guess I have to meet all by myself at the spa, until you come back to Vegas. But at first, let me get another orange-mocca-frappuccino. Yeahh...
I thought you meant this kind of movie here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120353/
Regards
Banana_Joe
http://bit.ly/aK73S0
@Banana_Joe-
People give that money to the dealers in the belief that the money goes to the dealers.
So you're okay with someone taking money belonging to you and giving it to someone else without asking or giving you any opportunity to understand why it's being done?
There was a war fought over that concept about 234 years ago.
Isn't tipping a dealer a conflict of interest too? The dealer is the one doling out the cards and chips. He/she has motivation to see you win if they get more tokes.
My point exactly jwsnet!! In fact they are more of a conflict of interest than any other employee in the whole casino. A Supervisor watches a minimum of 4 games and up to 8 games and are usually too busy swiping player cards and tracking players bets to watch every single payout and every single shuffle at every table. Plenty of opportunity to overpay or give an advantage shuffle to a "George" (good tipper). Other players at the same table would see what was happening and inform someone. It just wouldn't be worth the consequences of losing your job for a couple of bucks!!
The Tip Sharing policy has been going on at the
Wynn for at least 3 years now. Has there been any complaints or investigations by the GCB of corruption or Supervisors telling dealers not to take a losing bet from good tippers? I am sure there would have been a story on this issue by now. A Supervisor making $225 a day makes $58,500 per year which is enough to pay bills with so anything over that is gravy. I doubt there is a big problem with conflicts of interest.
@Green_Dragon_Regular:
Sorry, dude, imho you are mixing up something.
If you are a dealer and it is written in your signed working contract, you will be sharing your received tips. If it is not written in your signed working contract and your signed working contract is excluding non-written (meaning: spoken) appointments, you will not share your tips until your working contract will be changed to oblige you to share your tips. Such easy (at least it would be in Europe). It has nothing to do with history imho, since you are free to go and to work wherever you are and as whatever you want for your own pursuit of happiness. YOu are always free to leave.
Sorry, folks, I cannot speak about working in the U.S.A., since I never got a work permit, not even temporarily. Believe me or not: if someone sponsered me a G.C., I would try to get me some real interesting job, but probabely not that one being a card-dealer, since I am completely lacking the experience in that field.
Thanks for reading my comment. Here's my advice: Move on and ask any U.S. citizen about implications on jobs (e.g. a card-dealer's job) in the U.S. not me with a 3-month-time-period tourist visa. I am out of here.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Scenario:
Table is full and there is a player or two who have shown a tendancy to tip.
The Floor comes over to take their player cards. The dealer at that point introduces the Floor to the player. When the player makes a bet for the dealer, the door is now open. The dealer tells the player, loud enough so ALL players hear the comment made, "Thanks for the bet! By the way, did you know that Joe (the Floor) also receives part of this most generous tip? Yup he sure does and I thank you on his behalf as well. Oh, and you know that Joe also enters your buy-in and your average bet and the amount of time you played on the table you know. And of course you do know that is exactly how you earn player points to receive your comps. Joe and I appreciate the generous tip and thank you very much."
Then Joe "rates" the player according to how much the player tipped or did not tip. I wonder what will occur then? A good tipper gets a rating (that will cost the casino in comps) higher than what it should be? Joe rates the customer who did not tip lower than what it should be, costing the customer comp privledges?
There are many "calls" that the Floor makes as well. When making a "call" on a situation, who gets the good "call"? The player who tips more or the player who tips less? And also when the call is made, the dealer then reminds the customers again that Joe gets part of the tips.
Under these scenarios tips WILL INCREASE. But what happens when that occurs? The tip money is taken out of play and the casino will never have a chance to win that money. Who gets hurt? The casino and those who do not tip well, that's who.
These are only two of many ways that there is a conflict of interest that costs either the casino income/comps or the customer comps (and they don't return, again costing the casino income).
And guess what...no surveilance will EVER see it happen.
Played out properly, the casino owners will LOSE and the employees will WIN.
Brilliant Mr. Vegas! Brilliant!
There is a lot of cash dropped in the casino drop box on tables that is not attributed to any player because they were not "rated". Great! That now gives Joe the Floorman and the dealer some latitude to add that unaccounted cash drop to a player who tips generously and stay under the radar of accounting when the boxes are dropped. Instead of a customer's real buy-in of say $500, if they tip well that buy-in now becomes $750 or even $1000 by using the unaccounted cash in the drop box.
And to ensure that the cash is in the box to use on a good tipping players rating, the dealer and the Floor do not ask a player for their rating card who is dropping cash in the box. Besides, many players are never rated. You think the dealers and Floor don't know how much is dropped on the game? Get a clue! We know every penny dropped because it is the dealers putting it in the box!
You're a genious Steve! Happy days are here again!
Now let's all MAKE MONEY (except for the casino...LOL!)
And not a single dealer has commented on sharing tips with slug dealers who generate little or no tips.
There are dealers with zero personality, and dealers who can't even speak english who raid your tips, yet that seems to be ok. However, management who works side by side isn't worthy of sharing in the tips.
Comment?
i will grant you, anchorbine... dead weight dealers are indeed a concern, just not so much at the wynn.
i don't know of any of our dealers, of any race or ethnicity that can't carry a conversation in english, who don't ready or able to engage a customer.
i don't say they aren't there but if so, i'm unaware of it.
i could be wrong, correct me if i am but i believe one of the things mr. wynn really did right was that he didn't accept any applications that required a translator for the interview. maybe for the written part. you don't have to read english to speak english.
we are, afterall a service industry. we have the same games, the same machines as every other casino in town. the one thing that i would say is that ALL of our dealers are capable of offering customer service unlike any other property.
again, i may be wrong but i don't know of any exceptions. i hear korean, spanish, mandarin, romanian, serbian and many other languages in teh break room but i've never had one of my coworkers look at me and shrug when i've interacted with any of them.
@BananaJoe-
You're missing the part where they changed the policy after the place was open and the dealers were employed. The dealers were never asked and had no voice in how THEIR tips would be pooled and re-distributed to salaried employees.
Wynn is nothing but a megalomaniacal, cheapskate hypocrite. Other property's pay their floor management the same rates the Wynn's now enjoy, but they don't raid someone else's pockets to do it. It's just a matter of time before his stockholders show him the door again. He all but admitted it was a mistake when he apologized for it. He's just not man enough to own his mistake and correct the course. It's indefensibly re-distribution of wealth. Period.
I spend BIG on F&B, as do my clients. I will never set foot in a Wynn- owned property and will encourage my clients to avoid them as well.
Oops, how embarassing- should be "properties" not "property's". Ouch.