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StumbleFederal suit filed over Nevada gun ban in state parks
Loaded guns are banned in Nevada state parks, including Valley of Fire State Park in eastern Clark County. A Colorado group has filed a federal lawsuit challenging the Nevada law.
Published Friday, July 16, 2010 | 10:04 a.m.
Updated Friday, July 16, 2010 | 3:24 p.m.
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A Colorado legal foundation has filed a federal lawsuit challenging Nevada's law that generally bans the possession of loaded guns in state parks.
Attorneys for the Mountain States Legal Foundation in Denver, along with Elko attorney Robert Salyer, filed suit in U.S. District Court for Nevada this week in behalf of Al Baker, an Idaho outdoorsman who said he was threatened with six months' jail time if he fired his gun in Nevada state parks -- even in self defense.
"The Supreme Court’s ruling that the Second Amendment applies to the states via the 14th Amendment makes it clear that the Nevada law is unconstitutional and must be stricken," William Perry Pendley, president of the Mountain States Legal Foundation, said in a statement announcing the lawsuit.
A spokesman for the Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, parent agency of the Nevada Division of State Parks, said the agency hadn't seen the suit and had no immediate comment on it. State parks in the Las Vegas area are the Valley of Fire, Spring Mountain Ranch and Old Las Vegas Mormon Fort.
The Mountain States Legal Foundations says it is a nonprofit, public interest law firm dedicated to individual liberty, the right to own and use property, limited and ethical government and economic freedom.
In announcing the Idaho lawsuit, Pendley cited the U.S. Supreme Court's June 28 ruling striking down a Chicago ordinance banning handgun ownership and finding "the right to keep and bear arms [is] among those fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty."
In the new Nevada case, Baker, a University of Idaho law student who lives in Boise, said he is a National Rifle Association-certified home firearms safety and basic pistol instructor who is licensed in Idaho, Utah, and Oregon to carry a concealed handgun.
Baker said he is an avid outdoorsmen and camps in Northern Nevada in locations including Wild Horse State Recreation Area 67 miles north of Elko. Baker said he inquired about keeping a loaded firearm in his tent for self-defense purposes while visiting the recreation area.
"Mr. Baker has been advised that, if he brings a firearm for personal protection, he will be in violation of state law," the legal foundation said.
"Nevada’s ban on firearms prohibits Mr. Baker from possessing a functional firearm when he is camping in Nevada state parks. He must leave his firearm in his car, unloaded at all times, even in the case of a self-defense emergency. If he were to discharge a firearm in self-defense, that action would also violate the ban. The penalty for violating the Nevada firearms ban is six months imprisonment, or a $1,000 fine, or both," the foundation said.
Nevada code bans possession of a firearm in state parks unless the firearm is unloaded and inside a vehicle, or the gun owner is carrying the weapon in conformity with a state concealed weapons permit, or the gun owner is hunting in an authorized area.
"By banning all functional firearms, defendants currently maintain and actively enforce a set of laws, customs, practices, and policies under color of state law that deprive Mr. Baker of the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense in violation of the Second and 14th Amendments to the United States Constitution," charges the lawsuit, which seeks an injunction barring enforcement of the code at issue.
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Good for them. Got my vote!
... not!
I think the common sense is that responsible, law-abiding citizens should be allowed to defend themselves without fear of penal retaliation. This law only protects the criminals who have no respect for the law in the first place. In situations where you need a gun because someone else is threatening you with a gun, you need a ready gun. I don't see how this goes over some peoples' heads.
Comment removed by moderator. The comment was fine, but it referenced a previous comment that has since been removed.
THIS IS STUPID! If you dont like the law then stay out of the state parks...DUH!!!!! HELLO!!
Hey macks, if you don't like the fight for liberty, then stay out of the States.
There are plenty of countries for people who blindly accept idiotic laws that erode liberty and responsibility.
God only knows these clowns may get "Attached" by a rabbit at 2am....ya just never know!!No reason to be sitting there with a "loaded" firearm while camping.But it making fish'n easier,right ?
I like the way those who are against this legit case have nothing more than facetious, juvenile statements to offer the discussion and can't even form a genuine, cohesive argument on the issue. My first comment is still awaiting a response.
Oh, and ghp2006, while I made my disagreement with you quite explicit, your point is all right and not included in my exasperation above. I'd call it a slippery slope, sure, but one that brings a necessary point to the dialogue on this issue.
I just wonder how many more federal and state parks that the Mexican drug cartels are going to take over in the next 10 years. For all you spine-less liberals out there the law-abiding people in this country are not the problem.
LOL@ Powerplay - no it's the crazy gun owner who's "protecting" their tent with a gun...
LOL@ Jen - just as with the police, the legit gun owner is intimidating and obnoxious right up 'til the moment he/she is "protecting" your helpless @$$ from the crazy gun wielder (most criminals wouldn't know the first thing about "owning" a gun). Tell me again why murderers, rapists, and crooks are going to come into the state parks with their weapons unloaded??? ',:^/
Hey Jeniv: "Your stupid" LOL >>>>> And as for you bape702 "I fight to win"
@bape, guns may be for pussies, but only ninjas and idiots fight fire with fists. Call me presumptuous (and look in the mirror), but I don't think you're a ninja.
I will premise this comment with: A) I am neither a conservative or liberal... I think both have good ideas and both have bat $--- crazy ideas... B) I have been around rifles and guns my entire life...
I have lived here in Vegas for approximately 25+ years including the early 90's when we had real crime problems... I grew up on the notorious east side, went to school at Eldorado HS during the really bad gang years... And guess what, not once in that entire time have I ever felt I needed to carry a hand gun...
I can totally understand shooting for recreation, or for folks that like to hunt... My family were hunters... But to carry a weapon for personal protection is just plain dumb...
I have sat back and read all these cowboy comments and really you are the dangerous ones... "I'll fire first, second, and third then if time ask a few questions"... That attitude is no better then "Ima bussa cap!"... So yes I am putting you on level with your typical inner city gang member...
Are you all going to try and tell me about the Black Helicopters next... I know you don't believe this, but you're not Chuck Norris... No disrespect to the deceased, he was a West Point grad which I have a ton of respect for, but is the Summerlin Costo really that dangerous that you need to be packing...
I have read more and more of this BS and it seems like the same few people posting on here over and over and over again...it really is laughable at best... Look we get it you hate this town... You think we are crime ridden like NYC of 91... the city is pure anarchy... The world is coming to an end... Oh and you hate all the politicians... The fact is you need to push away from the computer, and take a walk, preferably without your hand guns... You'll find out it really is not as bad as you want to believe it is... We are fortunate that we live in a place that they can report every little crime that occurs...Why can they do that, because we live in a boring town, that's a good thing... You think that is the case in bigger (supposedly better) cities like LA, NYC, Chicago, etc... They have just as much of this if not more... But again when your only real source for information is this website I could see why you would want to shutter yourselves in and never commune... The fact is living your lives in fear is not living at all, which this small group on these message boards seems to do... I won't site specific users but you know who you are...
You are all the inspiration behind my user-name... In case you haven't picked up on it... It is an ironic play on all of your small minded behavior... I wish it wasn't the case but it is an unfortunate truth...
And I'm spent....
good call ^^^
ChickenLittle, you started off with some open-minded sentiment with which I can wholeheartedly agree as a fellow rational moderate. And then your post goes on to make the standing among some of the most presumptuous statements I've ever read. I've done and do plenty of walking around many cities and much wilderness, and I know it's nothing to fear 99% of the time, even if you have to keep your wits in some places.
Maybe you should push away from your computer and get to know people who, like the fellow in this article, are thankful they were able to return fire when they found themselves in that other 1% of the time that someone comes with what could be easily construed as intent to do grave harm, possibly with a weapon of his/her own.
To continue with ChickenLittle: Here's why I call you presumptuous. My guess is the vast majority of those people who protected themselves and/or their families would not have a paranoid, gangsta-like, trigger-happy, cowboy, Chuck Norris, etc. mentality. They're often good people like you, myself, or the folks you grew up with who genuinely hope that their guns never have to be used as the death-dealing tool that they essentially are.
And lastly to ChickenLittle, 'cause your post does say a lot of different things, my other wholehearted agreement with you is that these sites are way too full of mindless ideologue banter. What ever happened to actually thinking through an issue and discussing it rationally instead of just taking a knee-jerk stance just to hate guns, taxes, or whatever? I guess it's no surprise that something like the Internet would be subjected to the same irony that confronts all the other profound potentials and mediocre actualizations of humane pursuits.
All State Statutes should be reviewed and scrutinized for Constitutional compliance.
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powerball
You have my vote
With all these crack,meth heads running around that have no brain cells left and they will shoot you for $5.00 I think we all need a firearm.
I use state parks all the time, and I've NEVER felt it necessary to be protected from ANYONE there stingrayman - what kind of hiking do you do?
"Tell me again why murderers, rapists, and crooks are going to come into the state parks with their weapons unloaded???"
What kind of wacko paranoid juice are you drinking? Please leave your gun at home when you're out hiking, you're EXACTLY the kind of person I wouldn't trust carrying a gun!!
stingraynm... I really was not taking so much issue with you on this one, you happen to be on of the rare ones that is willing to present a rational argument, without seemly just attacking a person, plus you know how to use words with more then 2 syllables... :)... But as you can see in the time it took me to respond to you there are already a couple who prove me right... As far as your right to have guns, I am all for it... Never once would I question that... However my ideals will never lead me to think their is really ever a need for a loaded weapon for defense... When the right to bear arms was written, people lived in grave danger daily... At any moment a gang of British soldiers with muzzle loaders may break in on you... When it takes over a minute to get the rifle ready for firing then yeah keeping it loaded is not a bad idea... We just don't live like that... Nor do we do not live in a post apocalyptic world in which you have to kill or be killed for something like a scrap of food...
Like I said, I grew up in a rough part of town, where my odds of encountering a situation of potential grave harm were substantially higher then the average person...I spent a bunch of time hanging out with people in the Cheyenne and Civic Center area... And not once was I ever placed in a situation that I feared that much for my life that a hand gun was the only solution...
I even have a few militant friends, weapons for days, not one of them loaded, unless they plan to go shooting... Father was a cop... We did not have one single loaded weapon in the house... Grand father was an avid hunter (rifle and bow), so much he was tracking bow hunter (as opposed to the less sporting tree stand types)...Never a loaded weapon in the house...
Why do people need guns in a state park?
"Why do people need guns in a state park?" -- Pgelsman
As always, the hope is to never need a firearm and have one than to need one and not have it.
Also, it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
FYI: Public parks and rest areas are common hangouts of the socially deranged and demented.
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Thanks, ChickenLittle, for a reply. I try to come at people from the same level and angle they're coming at me (while trying not to dip too low, of course), and on that note it was refreshing to call someone out on some points without nixing my 3+ syllable words out of sheer futility, if you will. :)
I actually work near that part of NLV you mention, and naturally respect my colleagues' wishes to not have guns at work, and indeed nothing bad has ever come of my commute despite what I read/hear about the area all too often.
Personally, I just like to be prepared, 'cause in the event I do become some jerk's mark, odds are said jerk will choose an inconvenient time and probably choose not to warn me, either (call it a hunch). Many in my fam and friends have also kept unloaded weapons around, mostly due to having kids around. Such is certainly sensible until the kids are old enough to understand the serious respect that is owed to any firearm, let alone one that's loaded (as any gun owner knows, all guns should be presumed loaded at all times). It's worked out well for them, indeed, and I've never lost my cool and fired willy nilly without a clue where my shot will end up, so keeping a loaded weapon has worked for me.
Actually, the one time a handgun would've possibly been useful for me, it's probably good I didn't have one (I was respecting the law in DC and flying with a gun is a PITA, anyway). The crooks came in two, one with a handgun (irony here doesn't escape me), and they got the drop on me, so a handgun would've possibly caused that situation to escalate instead of ending with me just getting roughed up and robbed. That was a d*** helpless and subjugated feeling until they left, though.
Hey ChickenLittle: Trying to compare people like me who work for a living and pay taxes and who never went to jail for anything in life because i don't go out and break laws like criminals do everyday "Is real weak" When trying to compare me with gang members. And as for you "Jeniv" >>>>> It's people like you that put more faith in Government then your neighbor thats why i will never trust people that think like you. NEVER!
@Jen, thanks for responding to me, albeit not much of a response. Why exactly do I become a paranoid wacko who can't be trusted with a gun for seeing murder, rape, and robbery as possibilities? And what kind of rosey-goggled naive juice are you drinking?
Perhaps you should keep yourself at home. You're EXACTLY the kind of person I wouldn't want to hear about in these articles. Stories like this one are the endings I prefer. ;) How exactly do you plan to come out alive from the wrong place at the wrong time? (Despite what you seem to imply, the wrong place at the wrong time continues to exist/happen.)
Best of hopes to you and your paradigm. Luckily all my camping and hiking has only been eventful in recreational ways, and if I never have to so much as point my gun at someone I'll make sure to gratefully relish the fact that, in my case (from here on out, at least), you were right to say a gun was unnecessary.
If you've ever camped at Lake Lahontan on the 4th of July you would realize the need for a large caliber handgun. The trash that goes out there from Fernley and Silver Springs will scare the excrement out of you. Oh, and the National Park Service got their gun ban shoved up their back side so look out State Parks. And since you have the Attorney General's Office defending your administrative codes, you don't stand a chance.
Chunky says:
The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution gives me the right to keep and bare arms... I don't need any other reason to carry if I so choose!
That's what Chunky says!
Having lived in Alaska for several years, It was just second nature to have a fire arm with you while out of town. "Why do people need guns in state parks"? I would have to say that the chances of me or mine becoming a victim of criminal activity by someone else tends to be drastically reduced.
"The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution gives me the right to keep and bare [sic] arms... I don't need any other reason to carry if I so choose!"
Chunky -- wrong. The Second Amendment (and Nevada's counterpart, Article I, Section 11) protects that liberty which predates all written Constitutions.
Funny how courts and governments continually dance around that plain and direct language.
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." - Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
@ghp2006 You are NOT using common sense! Casinos and Commercial stores are PRIVATE property. State Parks are PUBLIC property. And States don't have Rights, only People have Rights. Therefor the government may not infringe your right to keep and bear arms, where the private property owner is within his rights to allow or disallow your presence, armed or unarmed, on his property.
Hey people, read about the one person killed and the two others mauled by a bear while sleeping in their tent at 2 a.m. This just happened the other day in Yellowstone Park.